so now that the latest beta of siyah kernel supports enabling/disabling of the 2nd core, and tegrak already released an app for it, i just want to know the possible effects in performance/battery if you use the different options of the 2nd core app.. especially when we use the single core option.. so what will happen to our phone when we run HD games, and im sure that it will extend the battery life, just not sure how the phone will behave with only 1 core running.. and will it be bad for our phone to only run at a single core..
and also, am i right to assume that our phone has the option "dynamic hotplug" by default?
Shouldn't see much of a decrease in the performance. The sgs has a single core yet the cpu can still handle anything thrown against it. Point being there is nothing out that demands dual core performance. On another note note, hd games are not actually gd. It is just advertising point for game developers.
$1 gets you a reply
Using one core instead won't break your cpu. It gonna make your phone cooler ( ! core is running producing less heat and the heat dissipator is made for the dual core ) and have a better battery life obviously. It will, obviously too, slow down your phone, but the speed lost is to be determined. You might want to test it out to see if it's getting laggy or simply suck. As already said, the SGS I has a 1Ghz proc and can handle most of the top recent content available so with a 1.2 Ghz single core, you should be able to handle everything available, specially with an optimized kernel like siyah. And you are right, the default mode is dynamic hotplug, which use both core when needed and turn the core 1 ( 2nd core ) off when not needed.
I tried playing a little with it. The overall smootness doesn't change and i get about the same fps in nenamark2. The only game i saw stuttering a little more in single mode was Shadowgun, the others are just the same. I also have the feeling that cpu noise is reduced while playing music through headsets when you run on single.
I like the idea of switching off one core. But while using only one core this leads to a higher load on that corse. This will result in higher frequencies an thus higher battery consumption?
So might using only one core even be worse for battery life?
I mean isn't that the reason why you use multiple cores? That one does not have to produce cpu with high frequencies? I think I once read that the energy a cpu uses it proportional to the frequency squared. So it is not a linear relation. That means two cores on 500 MHz are using less power than one cpu on 1000 Mhz. Can someone confirm that? So if th os is optimized for multiple cores the energy consumptions will be less.
What do you think or know about Android. Is it managing two cores intelligently an thus reducing energy consumption or are we doing better with switching off one core?
Hi,
is anybody out there who can share any experiences with this 2nd Core app?
It would be very interesting whether it really saves battery(and if yes, is it noticeably or is it a huge difference)? Are there any negative effects in speed oder stability?
Rgds
I don't particularly care about potential battery saving, but I use it to manually disable one core while playing games which have problems with SoundPool ( see http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=17623 ), such as Galcon, as this mitigates the problems.
Schindler33 said:
I like the idea of switching off one core. But while using only one core this leads to a higher load on that corse. This will result in higher frequencies an thus higher battery consumption?
So might using only one core even be worse for battery life?
I mean isn't that the reason why you use multiple cores? That one does not have to produce cpu with high frequencies? I think I once read that the energy a cpu uses it proportional to the frequency squared. So it is not a linear relation. That means two cores on 500 MHz are using less power than one cpu on 1000 Mhz. Can someone confirm that? So if th os is optimized for multiple cores the energy consumptions will be less.
What do you think or know about Android. Is it managing two cores intelligently an thus reducing energy consumption or are we doing better with switching off one core?
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totlly agree
Related
First the G2, now the Lexicon:
http://phandroid.com/2010/09/20/htc-lexikon-looks-to-be-next-verizon-droid/
Sure the clock speed is lower, but reports are saying that the processor is actually faster. And the battery usage will probably be a lot better too.
I'm a sucker for performance and have always said I'd stick with the N1 until the next CPUs come out. Finally... Has the next era in mobile CPU's finally begun?
Next era, no. 1.5+single cores, then dual core.
Paul22000 said:
First the G2, now the Lexicon:
http://phandroid.com/2010/09/20/htc-lexikon-looks-to-be-next-verizon-droid/
Sure the clock speed is lower, but reports are saying that the processor is actually faster. And the battery usage will probably be a lot better too.
I'm a sucker for performance and have always said I'd stick with the N1 until the next CPUs come out. Finally... Has the next era in mobile CPU's finally begun?
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It's faster 'cause the gpu is a logically separate device. I expect linpacks to be somewhat slower, but quadrants to be faster. How's it going?
"Next era"? No. 7x30 isn't a direct successor to 8x50, having the same CPU but different GPU and some other internal differences (for example, LPDDR2 support appears on Github). Just read Qualcomm's own product description:
http://www.qualcomm.com/products_services/chipsets/snapdragon.html
It's called "second generation" because of HSPA+, much better GPU, 45nm process, additional video codecs support, newer GPS, and some other bits and pieces. It's an overall better device. But if you count only the CPU area - it loses to Nexus. Same CPU, clocked lower. 8x55 is equal in CPU power.
If you're looking for the real next generation in power - look for 3rd generation devices, with dual core CPUs.
Jack_R1 said:
"Next era"? No. 7x30 isn't a direct successor to 8x50, having the same CPU but different GPU and some other internal differences (for example, LPDDR2 support appears on Github). Just read Qualcomm's own product description:
http://www.qualcomm.com/products_services/chipsets/snapdragon.html
It's called "second generation" because of HSPA+, much better GPU, 45nm process, additional video codecs support, newer GPS, and some other bits and pieces. It's an overall better device. But if you count only the CPU area - it loses to Nexus. Same CPU, clocked lower. 8x55 is equal in CPU power.
If you're looking for the real next generation in power - look for 3rd generation devices, with dual core CPUs.
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+1. I concur 100% with what he said.
keep in mind that pure clock speed does not mean something is faster... the 45nm die shrink also means they increased efficiency in a lot of areas and have allowed for more cache on the die...
think of it this way, i built a dual core PC back in 2006 that ran at 2.8ghz but it was like 90nm tech... if i buy a new dual core today, with a 45nm tech but same speed it would blow the old proc out of the water...
I really doubt dual core procs in phones will make a huge leap like everyone is expecting... I mean, how often do you run 4-5 apps simultaneously that are all very stressful on the CPU? the two most stressful things you prolly do on your phone is watch a movie (encoding video is stressful) or play a video game like on your PSX emulator... do you ever watch a movie and play a game at the same time? Stupid question right... the basic everyday performances are not going to see any huge improvements like everyone expects...
if they want to improve phones they should stick to single core and have a dedicated gpu or go dual and prioritize one of the cores to graphical processing...
oh i forgot to mention the only way you will see strong software performance improvements from dual core is if Google rewrites virtually the entire code for Android to make use of multiple cores... so while your phone might be dual core, your OS wont care since it virtually cannot use it correctly... better pray the manufacturer updates the OS for you cuz the N1 is single core and guess whos getting all the updates for the next year or so?
Pure clock speed on exactly the same CPU is directly correlated with CPU speed. Yes, there are some things that impact benchmarks like memory bandwidth etc, but we're not talking about them - and even if we did, the difference still wouldn't cover. 65nm vs 45nm means NOTHING - it doesn't matter, what process the CPU was built on, it matters how it functions. We're talking about EXACTLY THE SAME CPU, can you keep that in mind, please? Thanks. CPU cache almost doesn't matter, since L1 is limited anyway, and L2 is big enough anyway, the increases add a bare couple of percents to CPU speed, which is nothing compared to 20% speed loss due to clocking.
Thanks for your smart suggestions on "improving phones". I guess you might be one of the VPs at Qualcomm. Or maybe you aren't. I'll skip your even smarter comments about "dedicated GPU" etc. I guess you probably need to google the word "SoC" first and see what it means.
And you should probably educate yourself about multi-threaded applications, and also remember that Linux kernel (which is running on Android) is built to support multiple cores, and Dalvik VM (which is running the apps) might very well be multi-threaded too.
Adding a second core with load balancing OS results in ~35-40% performance increase (depends on some things). And ironically, when you compare "your old 90nm core" and "newer 45nm cores", saying that the newer cores clocked similarly "would blow the old out of the water", you're actually comparing multi-core vs single-core CPUs (with some internal speed-ups, too, but the most significant performance boost comes from additional cores).
Jack_R1 said:
65nm vs 45nm means NOTHING
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the 45nm process at least have better efficiency due to smaller gates?
So I've been noticing somethin strange other then the experia z every single other high end device that will come out as of 2013 will be using a 1.7GHZ snapdragon the only high end device that will use a lower one is experia z why????? I mean the phone hasn't come out yet can't they just put the 1.7GHZ instead? why use a lower one 1.5GHZ from phones of the fourth quarter of 2012 its old tech!!!
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda app-developers app
Calm down man, 1.5GHz quadcore is good for Android. Android really doesn't need such a high speeds
And CPU clock doesn't mean smoother device
Sent from my LT26i using xda app-developers app
1.5Ghz Quad Core is not "only". And they all use exactly the same CPU which operates with 1,5-1,7Ghz speed. Clock speed isn't everything. Look at the iPhone - it uses dual core 1.2Ghz CPU - yet its performance is 5 times smoother than most quad core devices...
Dual core is more than enough for anything a smartphone might need to do - as long as you put good software on it.
gabrielpina4 said:
So I've been noticing somethin strange other then the experia z every single other high end device that will come out as of 2013 will be using a 1.7GHZ snapdragon the only high end device that will use a lower one is experia z why????? I mean the phone hasn't come out yet can't they just put the 1.7GHZ instead? why use a lower one 1.5GHZ from phones of the fourth quarter of 2012 its old tech!!!
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda app-developers app
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Seriously? "Only" on a quad core 1.5ghz CPU for a smartphone? What are you gonna run on your phone that would require you more? Or do you just want your battery to drain more for no possible reasons? Some users even just underclock for the sake of saving battery.
If you ask me I buy this because of the features and the RAM not because of processor clock.
If you ever let me choose I would rather go for a 1ghz dual core processor with 4GB RAM than having a 2ghz quad core processor with 2GB RAM.
The only reason why I would want the Qualcomm S4 Pro processor is because of adreno 320.
A dual core is good enough dude .. this is a quad core lol
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
No offense but you just sound like your trolling. Same goes for your other thread too
AK4TAY7BEN said:
No offense but you just sound like your trolling. Same goes for your other thread too
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I agree. I think he's trolling.
Riyal said:
Seriously? "Only" on a quad core 1.5ghz CPU for a smartphone? What are you gonna run on your phone that would require you more? Or do you just want your battery to drain more for no possible reasons? Some users even just underclock for the sake of saving battery.
If you ask me I buy this because of the features and the RAM not because of processor clock.
If you ever let me choose I would rather go for a 1ghz dual core processor with 4GB RAM than having a 2ghz quad core processor with 2GB RAM.
The only reason why I would want the Qualcomm S4 Pro processor is because of adreno 320.
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What would be the purpose of 4GB of RAM in a smartphone are you running Photoshop or a VM? Where did this stigma that more cores is equivalent to less efficient power use. More asynchronous cores allow for more accurate scaling of processing power to needs, thus higher power efficiency because the CPU spends less time in higher power states.
REAVER117 said:
What would be the purpose of 4GB of RAM in a smartphone are you running Photoshop or a VM? Where did this stigma that mire cores is equivalent to less efficient power use. More asynchronous cores allow for more accurate scaling of processing power to needs, thus higher power efficiency because the CPU spends less time in higher power states.
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Buddy android runs Dalvik VM and our GPU uses dedicated RAM for processing certain graphic tasks. So yes we are running a VM on our mobile phones.
Also with a proper monitoring app you could see for yourself which uses more and needs more resource here. whether processing or memory.
Didn't you even wonder why our phones consume almost 700mb RAM without even a single foreground application open? Yet it sits idle in a single core and remains in between 400mhz+ to 900mhz?
Also I didn't say that more cores consumes more power in my statement but still since each core requires power to run it should also consume more. Also I didn't mention anything about number of core I was talking about the clocks. Since the higher the clock requires more Amperes. Still underclocking your phone by 500mhz would prolly just save about 2% of your battery anyways.
you don't need higher cpu clock to get a pocket heater for this winter
My Optimus G has the same cpu an the thermal throttling is kikin in pretty fast. This 1.7Ghz S4pro will thermal throttle as fast or even faster, rendering numerical advantage meaningless.
I don't want to feed the troll but I also think dual core is good enough.
Riyal said:
Buddy android runs Dalvik VM and our GPU uses dedicated RAM for processing certain graphic tasks. So yes we are running a VM on our mobile phones.
Also with a proper monitoring app you could see for yourself which uses more and needs more resource here. whether processing or memory.
Didn't you even wonder why our phones consume almost 700mb RAM without even a single foreground application open? Yet it sits idle in a single core and remains in between 400mhz+ to 900mhz?
Also I didn't say that more cores consumes more power in my statement but still since each core requires power to run it should also consume more. Also I didn't mention anything about number of core I was talking about the clocks. Since the higher the clock requires more Amperes. Still underclocking your phone by 500mhz would prolly just save about 2% of your battery anyways.
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I have yet to see my Xperia ZL have less than 800MB of free an extra 2GB would be a total waste. And you simply stated you'd rather have a dual than a quad, peak frequency means very little except for potential processing power. Just because your CPU is capable of a higher clock speed doesn't mean it will idle any higher. Likewise the only difference between a quad with a single utilized core and a dual with a single utilized core is the minute amount if extra leakage current for the quad.
I think you meant to say that higher frequencies may need more voltage, amperage has very little to do with CPU frequency scaling.
And obviously the memory overhead for a virtualized process i.e. Dalvik VM is not even in the same league as a system VM.
REAVER117 said:
I have yet to see my Xperia ZL have less than 800MB of free an extra 2GB would be a total waste. And you simply stated you'd rather have a dual than a quad, peak frequency means very little except for potential processing power. Just because your CPU is capable of a higher clock speed doesn't mean it will idle any higher. Likewise the only difference between a quad with a single utilized core and a dual with a single utilized core is the minute amount if extra leakage current for the quad.
I think you meant to say that higher frequencies may need more voltage, amperage has very little to do with CPU frequency scaling.
And obviously the memory overhead for a virtualized process i.e. Dalvik VM is not even in the same league as a system VM.
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Buddy that 800mb is without running any foreground applications other than either Settings app or the homescreen. Like I said try running some monitoring apps on the background and try using the browser then maybe try loading some sites with lots of javascript codes in it.
Or if you like try launching 4 types of angry birds and the 2 temple run games simultaneously without killing one of them and let's see if OOM doesn't kick in and kill any of them.
Regarding CPU cores please state something that requires a quad core processor. The smoothness of the UI your experiencing is because of the type of processor your phone is using "The Snapdragon S4 Pro" even if you disable all the extra cores in it you won't feel anything different unless of course you'll run some benchmark tools or video decoding stuffs in there.
And just FYI more cores doesn't mean greater processing power. It's more cores = more processes it can handle.
And on the CPU freq clocks who said t that amperes doesn't increase on each frequency table? Please take a look at qualcomm's document on their site regarding it's processors so you would know how they calculate it. Voltage is just used to provide more electricity to power up the processor but voltage alone won't make a processor active.
This discussion is going to the wrong way.
Thread closed.
As you all know, S4 I9500 comes with a pair of 4 cores that can't run at the same time (as of now). When not on heavy duty, the four A7 1.2GHz cores are used, and that can sometimes be too slow for me. So I am using SetCPU to lock the frequency to 1.6GHz, but SetCPU hasn't been updated/optimized for the S4, as it only identifies the four A15 1.6GHz cores. Therefore I do not know what exactly it is doing, is it overriding Samsung's way of switching between CPU sets, or is it working at all? Any suggestions on tweaking the I9500 CPU? Please tell me if you know any CPU apps compatible with it.
iHackMyMI said:
As you all know, S4 I9500 comes with a pair of 4 cores that can't run at the same time (as of now). When not on heavy duty, the four A7 1.2GHz cores are used, and that can sometimes be too slow for me. So I am using SetCPU to lock the frequency to 1.6GHz, but SetCPU hasn't been updated/optimized for the S4, as it only identifies the four A15 1.6GHz cores. Therefore I do not know what exactly it is doing, is it overriding Samsung's way of switching between CPU sets, or is it working at all? Any suggestions on tweaking the I9500 CPU? Please tell me if you know any CPU apps compatible with it.
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Locking the A15 chips on all the time would be a mistake. They use more power than the A7 cores, so battery would take a punch! I feel they handel the switch over pretty well, although CPUspy tells me that i've only used 1.6ghz for a few seconds over the course of a day. Although i've not run games or anything intensive.
hamdogg said:
Locking the A15 chips on all the time would be a mistake. They use more power than the A7 cores, so battery would take a punch! I feel they handel the switch over pretty well, although CPUspy tells me that i've only used 1.6ghz for a few seconds over the course of a day. Although i've not run games or anything intensive.
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Thank you for your reply. My point is that we are relatively oblivious about what's going on with the cores since no software is specifically compatible with monitoring/configuring the chipset. The thing is, a lot of apps run very laggy and have low frame rates on S4, force GPU rendering fixes most of the problem, but the crackyness of flipping through eBook reader apps are unbearable. I hope in the future there will be apps/roms that can take control of this CPU with great potential.
iHackMyMI said:
Thank you for your reply. My point is that we are relatively oblivious about what's going on with the cores since no software is specifically compatible with monitoring/configuring the chipset. The thing is, a lot of apps run very laggy and have low frame rates on S4, force GPU rendering fixes most of the problem, but the crackyness of flipping through eBook reader apps are unbearable. I hope in the future there will be apps/roms that can take control of this CPU with great potential.
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There are no compatibility issues, all CPU related apps work perfectly.
I've made topics explaining this over a month ago before the phone was even released. Everything beyond 600MHz are the big cores, everything at and below are the little ones. The little ones are mapped at a virtual frequency at half of the real clock, so 600 means 1200.
There's nothing more to it than that.
AndreiLux said:
There are no compatibility issues, all CPU related apps work perfectly.
I've made topics explaining this over a month ago before the phone was even released. Everything beyond 600MHz are the big cores, everything at and below are the little ones. The little ones are mapped at a virtual frequency at half of the real clock, so 600 means 1200.
There's nothing more to it than that.
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OMG thank you! That was very helpful
iHackMyMI said:
OMG thank you! That was very helpful
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like andreilux said what you have to do is set the minimum frequency above 600(if you still need it ) so that a15 cores will be on all the time. If in case you switch on the a15 cores all the time do let us know about the avg battery drain.
So as you can see by these screenshots only 4 of my eight cores are working.. Is there any way to fix this??
(Here's the album i mgur. c 0 m/ a /2FWDH
Any help would be extremely appreciated..
gyropepsi said:
So as you can see by these screenshots only 4 of my eight cores are working.. Is there any way to fix this??
(Here's the album i mgur. c 0 m/ a /2FWDH
Any help would be extremely appreciated..
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What makes you think that only 4 cores are working?
I don't know in the Android world, but in PCs the applications must be written expressly to use more than one core. And the SD 615 has 4 cores that runs at 1.7 MHz max and the other 4 at 1.0 MHz max, but the frequencies could be lowered by phone makers to increase battery duration.
BubuXP said:
What makes you think that only 4 cores are working?
I don't know in the Android world, but in PCs the applications must be written expressly to use more than one core. And the SD 615 has 4 cores that runs at 1.7 MHz max and the other 4 at 1.0 MHz max, but the frequencies could be lowered by phone makers to increase battery duration.
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Yeah but I had my phone on performance mode and it's using half of the cores, if the other 4 max at 1.0mhz then why are all games that I play (3D Wise) are slow? Is there any way I could fix it? Could overclocking via CPU managing apps (using root,) work in my situation?
gyropepsi said:
Yeah but I had my phone on performance mode and it's using half of the cores, if the other 4 max at 1.0mhz then why are all games that I play (3D Wise) are slow? Is there any way I could fix it? Could overclocking via CPU managing apps (using root,) work in my situation?
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Four cores are high-performance, and four cores are low-power. The performance cores suck up a lot of battery, so not for use with background tasks. The low-power cores are useless for pretty much anything but background tasks, so they're not for use with gaming, etc. The fact that your apps are only using four cores is normal.
Also, as for your gaming performance, I've actually done some testing on this and it turns out that on the ZE551KL, the GPU is way underpowered. No amount of overclocking can fix the abysmal GPU performance on the ZE551KL. This doesn't seem to happen on other models, either, so... yeah.
@gyropepsi: yes, that's correct, the eight cores are not "equal". You have four cores for general CPU use and another four for higher CPU use. They cannot be used in the same time, they get switched to save power. It's actually called "dual quad-core".
https://www.qualcomm.com/documents/snapdragon-615-processor-product-brief
Other manufacturers have one core for low processing and four for high processing. Those phones are doing great in tests but they really suck in daily usage.
@sensi277: I would't say abysmal performance, but yes, it seems to be lower than the Selfie in some tests. However it moves VERY good for a phone, 3D tests on phones are just for kids, to brag about their phones. Nobody does real gaming on a phone.
SoNic67 said:
@sensi277: I would't say abysmal performance, but yes, it seems to be lower than the Selfie in some tests. However it moves VERY good for a phone, 3D tests on phones are just for kids, to brag about their phones. Nobody does real gaming on a phone.
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?
Except, I do real gaming on my phone. Or at least, I try to. Laser GPU holds back most games, though.
Why? You don't have a laptop, desktop? Phone gaming experience is horrid no matter what. No good controls, no immersion...
Sent from my ASUS_Z00TD using Tapatalk
Here is some info about big.LITTLE processing:
https://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/biglittleprocessing.php
Sent from my ASUS_Z00TD using XDA-Developers mobile app
hi
i am new but i cant find a way for see the firtst 1,5 ghz cores work....all cpu app i can find see me only work the last 4 core with 1,2 ghz...
please help me unlock the firt 4 core are everytime stopped thnx for help
Those kick in only when you are doing something "hard" in that time. Like benchmarking in background.
SoNic67 said:
Those kick in only when you are doing something "hard" in that time. Like benchmarking in background.
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i try run all test and i dont see one time the big core work, they are stopped every time...( try pc mark but dont work he crash after 4k encoding video) with kernel auiditior i can active all 8 core...now they work everytime and i can set governor for each processor...
but other app like cpuz dont find the first processor they see only the last 4 core... ok maybe with bench i can see all cores work but is very hard find a way for check the correct work for governor and the phone processor work fine....
if u dont have root cpu app dont find any governor...or see only one processor...
Those are limitations of the apps themselves or your OS.
I have the official N (rooted with ElementalX) and CPU-Z sees all the cores.
Also there are never supposed to work all 8 in the same time, only a group/cluster of 4 at one time, it is not a straight-up 8 core CPU. They are not "equal" in respect of performance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_big.LITTLE
Different combinations of Governors and Schedulers produce different results.
PS: The newer Snapdragon 625, that is present in G5 Plus, is listed as a true 8 core: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/processors/625
The 617 is a big.LITTLE octa-core, not a true 8-core CPU such as the 625, like @SoNic67 said. The 617 has one cluster running up to 1.5-1.6 GHz (depending on the kernel), and one cluster that generally runs from 500 MHz-1200 MHz.
The little cluster, or the 500-1200 MHz cluster, is fine for basic tasks, such as UI, scrolling, etc. However, in games, all cores will online (or at least that's the point). Some apps are not threaded for 8 cores and thus will not utilize, or need, 8 cores.
Also, in reality, the 4 "big" cores make very little difference in terms of performance. I did 2 benches in another thread, where Antutu came up 40K with 4 cores and 45k with 8 cores. Although this seems like a large performance decrease, without the big cores the phone was cool, still ran quick, and drained far less battery.
Finally, having 8 cores also can introduce performance deficits as well, especially if your hotplug is inefficient (there may be delays in turning on cores, resulting in UI jank). I thus recommend simply leaving them off- better battery, cooling, and still decent performance.
thx for support and continue OS is amazing gw.
negusp said:
The 617 is a big.LITTLE octa-core, not a true 8-core CPU such as the 625, like @SoNic67 said. The 617 has one cluster running up to 1.5-1.6 GHz (depending on the kernel), and one cluster that generally runs from 500 MHz-1200 MHz.
The little cluster, or the 500-1200 MHz cluster, is fine for basic tasks, such as UI, scrolling, etc. However, in games, all cores will online (or at least that's the point). Some apps are not threaded for 8 cores and thus will not utilize, or need, 8 cores.
Also, in reality, the 4 "big" cores make very little difference in terms of performance. I did 2 benches in another thread, where Antutu came up 40K with 4 cores and 45k with 8 cores. Although this seems like a large performance decrease, without the big cores the phone was cool, still ran quick, and drained far less battery.
Finally, having 8 cores also can introduce performance deficits as well, especially if your hotplug is inefficient (there may be delays in turning on cores, resulting in UI jank). I thus recommend simply leaving them off- better battery, cooling, and still decent performance.
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