Database Users

HTC XD??

Remember the official twitter anoucement in which the representative said something like "by the time we bring touch HD to US, there will be better phones for you guys then", or something like that?
wmpoweruser claimed to have a source saying the new XD (probably not the real name) makes touch HD looks childish in comparison.
Personally I know it's possible for newer phones to kick HD's rear, but to the degree of "pale in comparison" is unthinkable... unless... flash + android + capacitive touch??? my dream...
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=1292

on another thought, this could be the same phone as Area-Mobile's claim of the new phone that's similar to HD but has Android
http://www.areamobile.de/news/9999.html

Already a thread of this

May b it's the combination of tegra, wm7, android.
May b come with HD camera with flash ?

Where is there already a thread on xd? I think the improved version will have built in storage (8gig), flash, haptic feedback, and either winmobile 7 or graphics chip.

tboy2000 said:
Where is there already a thread on xd? I think the improved version will have built in storage (8gig), flash, haptic feedback, and either winmobile 7 or graphics chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There isn't really a thread for the XD, namely because we don't know of any Touch "XD". So far it's just a presumed name for whatever next big device might be making, particularly because HTC hinted at a new device when it annouced the HD would not appear in the US.
Of course shortly after that announcement, the HTC T8290 was leaked, and so there are some quick assumptions that the T8290 = Touch XD.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=435096
But again the XD doesn't really exist (yet?). And the T8290 adds WiMAX, which means it's unlikely to appear Stateside anytime soon (at least not until Sprint launches more WiMAX markets); therefore the T8290 probably is not the so-called XD.
All in all, there really isn't any information, except for what little information Mobile-Review "spilled", so everything is purely up to speculation for now.

Sorry because orb3000 wrote "Already a thread of this" i read it as already a thread ON this". My mistake.

Someone did say that news on HD will b old news bcoz some cool stuff is coming. But an HD with WiMAX is not cool as many countries does not have WiMAX yet. And it seems like it doesn't come with 3.5mm jack.
So does anyone think it is cool stuff ? Cold stuff may be.
T8289, to me, is just Touch Diamond with large screen and WiMAX. That's all.

trust me on this. nothing too much better is planned. thats all im saying. atleast not until a bit into 09.

Agreed. The HD is currently the most interesting WinMo thing to come from HTC, as it is an edition of the Diamond that goes quite a way to show that occasionally, HTC DOES listen to customers. When they come out with a device that does Not have some of the most important HD features and is targeted at only some specific markets (the selling point being WiMax ofcourse) I'd hardly call it "the device that makes the HD pale in comparison", or even a more advanced device to begin with.

Pawel062 said:
trust me on this. nothing too much better is planned. thats all im saying. atleast not until a bit into 09.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right. The HD will be the best thing at least until Q3/2009 probably. But then there's goning to be something revolutionary.

I really think the Touch HD is good enough for most people. What could possibly be in the XD and not in the HD? HD is beautifully designed compared to the new WIMAX one which is horrible. Maybe the XD will have 8 or 16gig built in. Well we can easily add 8 or 16 gig microsd cards. Maybe XD will have a camera flash? Okay but a slight improvement over HD. Maybe XD will have Windows Mobile 7? Well I am sure the talented folk on here will make a compatible rom for HD users. Maybe XD will have Android? Well we are a Windows Mobile community and it will take a long time for Android to catch up with the thousands of apps out for PPC. Maybe it will have a 4" screen? Well I don't want too big a casing. 3.8" is perfect. Maybe it will have the new graphics chip? The HD seems fast and more than capable to play movies and games.
I am not sure waiting and waiting for the XD version will be so worthwhile in my opinion, especially as we don't know what we are waiting for.
I can't wait for HD. The PERFECT phone (in my opinion of course)

i am pretty sure it wonÄt have WINMO 7 as it will not be out before the end of next year. and even then companys will have to test it before phones come out. so i don't expect WINMO 7 devices to see the light of day befor christmas 2009

For sure the next revolution in mobile phones will be the implementation of tegra or another piece of hardware very similar to tegra. That will then open up the possibilities of how we interact with our phones. I can't wait, but to hang on for the NEXT big thing all the time simply means you miss out on the currently available goodness!

tboy2000 said:
What could possibly be in the XD and not in the HD?
...
I can't wait for HD. The PERFECT phone (in my opinion of course)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bet my money on that XD will have WM7, Capactive touch screen and Tegra. the rest, such as flash or built-in storage are minor things.
The reason being that one of WM7's _suggested_ (not minimum) requirement is capacitive touch screen, it has been mentioned more than once that microsoft wants WM& to be finger friendly and touch oriented instead of using a stylus, so those two go in hand in hand most LIKELY. Nvidia also annouced that they are focusing SOLELY on WM7 for tegra APX chip, so that goes hand in hand.
After searching and watching all the Tegra demo videos online, i believe this feature/hardware in itself will trump HD right now. But that won't happen till 6 month ~ a year later. I'm talking about the Tegra APX chip, not the 600 or 650, which may come earlier but are not targeted towards smartphones.
The final reason of why all these are connected is: in the original twitter of why HD is not released in US, the htc rep said "by the time we bring HD to US, there will be better things". The general trend based on my observation is that if someting (phone) is released in europe/asia first, it will be at least 6 month, till the same product passes the FCC certification + carrier certification + all that shenanigan. The same is especially true for US's GSM carrier, just look at how much delay Blackberry Bold is experiencing with AT&T's certification. Not saying it's a bad thing for them to do extra testing, but this delay just fits with what the HTC rep said. and i totally belive at the rate HTC is going, in 6+ month, they will have something that "makes HD look pale in comparison"

It won't be NVidia Tegra but probably Qualcomm or TI with Snapdragon and new OMAPs that feature 1GHz processors (+ Tegra perhaps?).
That's what the rumor about the HTC XD is about probably (well, even HTC employees don't know for sure what MR was talking about).
But it will eventually come before WM7 which means no capacitive touch but that's not for sure too.
That's everything that is known. I tell you because the speculations in this thread are going crazy...
And it is for sure that the HD will be the flagship device for at least half a year if not one year so go for it.

maati said:
That's everything that is known. I tell you because the speculations in this thread are going crazy...
And it is for sure that the HD will be the flagship device for at least half a year if not one year so go for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree with this. The speculations are starting to look more like dreaming away on the ultimate phone, and "by the time the HD comes to the US" certainly does not refer to a time period of over a year from now, and before that hardly anybody realistically expects Tegra APX to be available. Same goes for WM7. Of course in a year from now there will be things that make the HD look pale in comparison. Same goes for hardware in a lot of segments, CPU's and GPU's experience huge developments per year. With that in mind you might as well wait for the rest of your life because every time something comes out something superior is already in the making.
I'm getting the HD because it will definitely rock, and I know it will really take some time before we see anything that will truly make the HD "pale in comparison".

maati said:
You're right. The HD will be the best thing at least until Q3/2009 probably. But then there's goning to be something revolutionary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see any revolution coming in 2009. Nothing the same scale as the introduction of touchscreen, camera or gps.
All these went through long period of prototypes, reduced functionality or usage of external devices before being fully integrated in consumer devices.
There is nothing revolutionary now under development that will hit the streets in one year time. Just higher data transfer speed, higher megapixel count, higher MHz cpus, more bling-bling in the interface, better game/video framerates, better internet support, in one word evolution.
The next revolution will probably be the substitution of arm with desktop-like x86 cpus, when the power consumption will drop about 10 times compared to what Via Nano and Intel Atom can do today. And that will be in 3 to 5 years time, when they go to 10nm or so fabrication process.
By that time we will plug the LCDs in our HTCs and play Half Life with a bluetooth keyboard and mouse

Multi touch in the Touch HD?

Hi All,
So excited about getting the Touch HD, but one thing is kinda bothering me,
since we are all waiting to see the new wm7 and because making such a pricey purchase for a phone, i would expect that wm7 will work on the HD (hopefuly)
Now, what good is wm7 on such a fantastic device if we can't utilize Multi Touch and the like?!
Can anybody confirm via experiment that it can do multi touch?
(and i am not talking about the navi-area like diamond/pro)
Thanks guys,
Fadi

VERY good question, but there is one glaring problem with it:
Since WM6.1 doesn't support multi-touch, there really isn't a way to experiment to see if the HD does in fact support it.
Now, I do remember reading somewhere that the Diamond does support multi-touch a few months ago. I don't know if that was accurate or not, but I did read it. I am not sure if that's the "navi-area" you speak of, but that's what I read.
I am not sure anyone can really answer your question besides HTC themselves and you are going to be hard pressed to get an answer out of them. I sent them a question prior to the HD's release asking if it had a light sensor and they basically told me they don't know- but usually the secondary video camera acts as one. LOL.
If I had to bet, I would say it lacked multi-touch. I am not sure how great multi-touch is, you can use two fingers in opposite directions to zoom in on a picture of you can simply double tap on it twice... lol. I don't own an iPhone so maybe there is more to it than just that and I am pretty sure of that, but I don't think there is a "whole" lot more to it.
Now I am going to get some iPhone "not a fanboy" coming in and telling me that multi-touch scrambles eggs and grills steak.

For goodness sake, why is everybody so obsessed with multi-touch?
I mean, it's a nice feature but with a limited use in fact, and I completely fail to see how lack of it may be a show stopper!
To say that there is no point in buying a device without it is just crazy.

nu_D said:
VERY good question, but there is one glaring problem with it:
Now I am going to get some iPhone "not a fanboy" coming in and telling me that multi-touch scrambles eggs and grills steak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it marinades the steak, and THEN grills it to perfection actually, this is an APPLE iPhone you know
Well, I have an iPhone, I don't think I am a fanboy, hell, who cares......but nah, multi touch is a nice to have, bit it is no big deal.
Kev

Thanks guys for the reply.
I understand your point, actually looking at what wm7 has in store for the
multi-touch technology, it just bothers me to not have it in this nice device.
how much will i use multi-touch... or how useful it is? no idea
I simply like to know that the HD can make use of all what wm7 has to offer.. well..hoping that they release it sometime in this century lol
Thnx

Is there anything close to a firm release date for WM7 yet?
I read 2nd half of 2009 on a site on Google, does anyone know any different?
HTC seam to be chucking out the new models at quite some rate lately with the Diamond, Pro and HD all within a few months of each other. Hopefully they will release new WM7 roms for all these phones and not expect us all to fork out for another £500 device just to upgrade!

Fadik said:
Thanks guys for the reply.
I understand your point, actually looking at what wm7 has in store for the
multi-touch technology, it just bothers me to not have it in this nice device.
how much will i use multi-touch... or how useful it is? no idea
I simply like to know that the HD can make use of all what wm7 has to offer.. well..hoping that they release it sometime in this century lol
Thnx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it's like whether you need a QWERTY keyboard or not.
If you're asking yourself if you NEED it, then you don't need it.

I think the reason behind the question is what happens in if WM7 is designed with the expectation that multi touch is present.
If that was the case, then some commonly used functions might become very tedious to use without multitouch since you might be forced to go through menu options etc.
e.g. In photo app. If Zoom relied on pinch, the only alternative without it might mean having to go from full screen to normal screen then picking menu button then selecting zoom.
Perhaps we should have these devices launched as WM7 Capable (Not to be confused with WM7 Ultimate Ready)
Zuber

Zuber said:
I think the reason behind the question is what happens in if WM7 is designed with the expectation that multi touch is present.
If that was the case, then some commonly used functions might become very tedious to use without multitouch since you might be forced to go through menu options etc.
e.g. In photo app. If Zoom relied on pinch, the only alternative without it might mean having to go from full screen to normal screen then picking menu button then selecting zoom.
Perhaps we should have these devices launched as WM7 Capable (Not to be confused with WM7 Ultimate Ready)
Zuber
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, hopefully MS people will have more foresight than that.
For example, the beloved iPhone zooms with pinching and with double tapping

Don't quote me on this but I THINK I remember reading that 6.5 should be released in Q1 of 2009 and that 7 should be released in 2010.
I am pretty sure about the 2010 release but sort of iffy on the Q1 of 2009 release.
Multi-touch is cool, first thing I did on the Macbook display at the Apple store was try it out on the trackpad- and it was at that point I found it to be useless. I am sure WM7 will implement it but I will bet my shoes that they will support other input methods for specific tasks, such as double tapping.
It would be cool to have, but to put it into perspective, I would love for Apple to boost their camera to 5 megapixels and have them ditch multi-touch or would have HTC add flash to the HD rather than multi-touch. The flash example is a much better example since it's not a deal breaker whereas the weak camera in the iPhone is.
Anyways.
Ya man, it's crazy what some people say- one guy made the lack of TV-out to be almost as bad as nuclear winter. I mean seriously, how many times a week do you use TV-out? I live on campus at a major university, which anyone will tell you has more televisions and iPhones per square yard than any other place in the world, and I have never seen anyone use their TV-out. Hell, I don't think anyone even owns the cable or even knows they could output TV. But man, this guy waged war with me that the lack of TV-out made the HD absolutely and utterly useless. I learned my lesson so now whenever I say anything even REMOTELY negative about the iPhone, I have my flame retardant suit on.
"Meh.. multi-touch is cool I guess."
"Multi-touch is the greatest invention of ALL time you n00b!! I will pawN you with my multi-touch light saber!!!! What are you going to do? Double tap your light saber!!!!?? HA! HA! PAWNED!!!!!"
lolz

Don't quote me on this but I THINK I remember reading that 6.5 should be released in Q1 of 2009 and that 7 should be released in 2010.
I am pretty sure about the 2010 release but sort of iffy on the Q1 of 2009 release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard of "first half of 2009" for 6.5, which sounds ok.
And "end of 2009" for WM7, but we all know that that's NOT going to happen, and if it does, i don't see a device with WM7 before 2010, so there's lots of time...

Insaneboy said:
I've heard of "first half of 2009" for 6.5, which sounds ok.
And "end of 2009" for WM7, but we all know that that's NOT going to happen, and if it does, i don't see a device with WM7 before 2010, so there's lots of time...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've just bought a HD (and I like it very much, thank you) on an 18 month Orange contract. I expect my next phone to be an android or WM7 phone. My money is on Android.
HTC offer the best smartphone hardware, which is only currently available with WM. The iPhone offers the best implimented user centric interface, and android offers open source, fast efficient modern interface, and the prospect of the most versatile customisation. I expect over the next 18 month for WM to improve the accessibility of its interface, iPhone to improve its hardware and support for business level functions. Android will become available on a number of different devices (I don't count the current prototype as a serious mass market phone) and if the market takes a shine to it the potential for development and customisabiity is enormous - coupled with the fact that the interface is fast and modern, as a platform it has the potential to to develop at a rate that will put the others to shame.
For my next purchase in 18 months, my money is on android. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong if it didn't work out that way though.

trentend said:
I've just bought a HD (and I like it very much, thank you) on an 18 month Orange contract. I expect my next phone to be an android or WM7 phone. My money is on Android.
HTC offer the best smartphone hardware, which is only currently available with WM. The iPhone offers the best implimented user centric interface, and android offers open source, fast efficient modern interface, and the prospect of the most versatile customisation. I expect over the next 18 month for WM to improve the accessibility of its interface, iPhone to improve its hardware and support for business level functions. Android will become available on a number of different devices (I don't count the current prototype as a serious mass market phone) and if the market takes a shine to it the potential for development and customisabiity is enormous - coupled with the fact that the interface is fast and modern, as a platform it has the potential to to develop at a rate that will put the others to shame.
For my next purchase in 18 months, my money is on android. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong if it didn't work out that way though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, Android has the potential to be as customisable as winmo and as pretty as iPhone OS.
And all the news lately are this manufacturer is going to make an Android phone and that manufacturer is going to make an Android phone... seems Symbian is going to have a very tough time next couple of years...

nu_D said:
Don't quote me on this but I THINK I remember reading that 6.5 should be released in Q1 of 2009 and that 7 should be released in 2010.
I am pretty sure about the 2010 release but sort of iffy on the Q1 of 2009 release.
Multi-touch is cool, first thing I did on the Macbook display at the Apple store was try it out on the trackpad- and it was at that point I found it to be useless. I am sure WM7 will implement it but I will bet my shoes that they will support other input methods for specific tasks, such as double tapping.
It would be cool to have, but to put it into perspective, I would love for Apple to boost their camera to 5 megapixels and have them ditch multi-touch or would have HTC add flash to the HD rather than multi-touch. The flash example is a much better example since it's not a deal breaker whereas the weak camera in the iPhone is.
Anyways.
Ya man, it's crazy what some people say- one guy made the lack of TV-out to be almost as bad as nuclear winter. I mean seriously, how many times a week do you use TV-out? I live on campus at a major university, which anyone will tell you has more televisions and iPhones per square yard than any other place in the world, and I have never seen anyone use their TV-out. Hell, I don't think anyone even owns the cable or even knows they could output TV. But man, this guy waged war with me that the lack of TV-out made the HD absolutely and utterly useless. I learned my lesson so now whenever I say anything even REMOTELY negative about the iPhone, I have my flame retardant suit on.
"Meh.. multi-touch is cool I guess."
"Multi-touch is the greatest invention of ALL time you n00b!! I will pawN you with my multi-touch light saber!!!! What are you going to do? Double tap your light saber!!!!?? HA! HA! PAWNED!!!!!"
lolz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with you mate.
Everyone should define his/her own requirements first before saying if a device is useless. A person who does lots of group presentation using power point and the like on the move might find TV-out indispensable. A person who need to use a device on prolonged basis wihout availability of power will find replaceable battery indispensable. Everyone's requirement is unique and the requirements must first be considered before jumping into the bandwagon to get the latest phone.
Also, just because a person "declares" a device "useless" does not make it useless. It just mean that it does not meet his requirements but may 100% meet my requirements.

Hey,
i heard that multitouch is an apple patent and therefor not available on other phones. is that true?
if so then i'm pretty sure nearly every newer phone is capable of multitouch and there may be just a little "tweak" to unlock it.
any information on this? is somebody working on this?

DarsVaeda said:
Hey,
i heard that multitouch is an apple patent and therefor not available on other phones. is that true?
if so then i'm pretty sure nearly every newer phone is capable of multitouch and there may be just a little "tweak" to unlock it.
any information on this? is somebody working on this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Research on capacitive vs resistive touch screen technology.

sorry?
do you mean one of the technologies do not support multitouch
or do you mean one of those technologies is patented by apple?

DarsVaeda said:
sorry?
do you mean one of the technologies do not support multitouch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, and it's not ours...

is it absolutely impossible in resistitive touch screens have multi touch?!

Saw this on engadget yesterday - on the G1 though
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...ality-integrated-headphone-jack-still-just-a/

Do you feel like a paying tester?

Hi,
I previously used the Wizard and really have to say I miss Windows Mobile meanwhile. So when I first heard about the HD I really was excited as it seemed to be the ideal gadget. Although bigger than most phones not too big, a wonderful screen and so on.
My first disappointment came when I realised HTC hadnt used a capacitive screen, but after all this would have been a minor issue. However meanwhile I am almost convinced I will not get an HD due to all the problems people reported about it.
I do not want to spend EUR 600 for something which is chipping after two days of careful usage. Similarly I am not too fond of "constant" freezes of the system itself. Also the mentioned performance issues (mostly in the multimedia related area) do not look very well for such a device.
All this and a few other smaller things along with the non-capacitive screen made me really reconsider my purchase. I am aware that many do not experience these problems, but there are far too many such complaints for me to really risk entering the game.
I am really disappointed as it seemed like a perfect phone initially. At the moment I am waiting for the Asus P565 or the Glaxy7 respectively for the next generation of the M8.
Would you say my concerns are valid? Somehow it seems many are not paid testers but actually paying ones.
Thanks.

I bought HTC's "flagship" phone last year, the Tytn II, and all I can say is the forum here seems very reminiscent of the Kaiser forum back then - lots of people wanting to believe they've paid top dollar for the "ultimate" phone, while so many more people report problem after problem. Dissapointing video and multimedia, questionable build quality, freezing, issues with the GPS - all very familiar.
I believe HTC is trading on a reputation for quality which it no longer deserves. There's no question it's made a number of excellent devices in the past, but I don't believe it's carried that tradition on in the last year or so - their Qualcomm powered devices in particular (like the Tytn II onwards) have generally dissapointed. There's the famous driver issue of course, which I believe still affects the HD to some extent (it has some drivers, but they don't appear to be very good), but moreover the general performance of these chips just doesn't seem to match those used in previous generations, like the original Tytn.
There'll be the usual attempts to shore up HTC's unfinished efforts here with cooked ROMs for the HD soon appearing, just as they did for the Tytn II, but as before there's only so much the devs here can do without anything much to go on - they lack the raw materials in the form of drivers etc themselves. I've tried various ROMs for the Kaiser, none of them truly satisfied, and none of them genuinely improved performance IMO. It can take several months for any real progress to be made, by which time both you and the devs involved will be starting to look for the next phone anyway.

MAK11 said:
You guys need some ***** in your lifes. Get out more..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..........haha

Maybe you should learn to give helpful replies respectively how to behave in a community MAK.

The Hd is my first HTC phone, so I haven't been spoiled by their previous efforts. Mine hasn't chipped and it hasn't frozen once. I'm really enjoying the phone, although it takes some tinkering to get the most out of it obviously - not perhaps a phone for the masses.
The screen looks great, but the responsiveness of the screen is nothing like (ie not as good as) the iphone of course.
Petrov.

My last five phones have all been HTC devices. I started with the SPV M500 then a Blue Angel, Universal, TyTN II and I have recently moved on to a HD. I would just like to redress the balance somewhat.
I have had no quality or reliability issues since my first HTC device, the SPV M500 nor have I had with the HD (2 weeks). All my phones have been worked hard as business devices and I consider that I have always got a very good return on my investment in them.
HTC have been at the leading edge of Windows Mobile device development and have continuously raised the bar with each new device. The HD is a fine example of this. The technology media were salivating at the thought of this device in the weeks and months leading up to its release and judging by the content of the majority of reviews they have not been disappointed. I still marvel at how good this device is and have no doubt will continue to improve as the customized ROMs start to kick in.
There is always a price to pay for being an early adopter and that price is having to accept that there will always be a relatively small amount of development issues in the early days after a product has been released (and we are very much still in the early phase of the HDs life-cycle). There has to be a trade off on the part of the manufacturer in terms of time spent testing a device prior to release and getting a device to market before the technology is overtaken by developments.
It's a fact that people who are happy and content with their devices are a lot less likely to post messages on forums stating this than those with a gripe. This should be borne in mind when weighing up opinions based on forum postings.

MAK11 said:
You guys need some ***** in your lifes. Get out more..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the abuse is pretty old too, there's plenty of that in the Kaiser section. It's not easy to take the ***** highground on one of the geekiest forums on earth, but if you've just been jipped on a disappointing phone and someone's pointing out your mistake, I guess it's natural to try.

drzoid said:
My first disappointment came when I realised HTC hadnt used a capacitive screen,
chipping after two days of careful usage.
not too fond of "constant" freezes of the system itself.
Also the mentioned performance issues (mostly in the multimedia related area).
All this and a few other smaller things along with the non-capacitive screen made me really reconsider my purchase. I am aware that many do not experience these problems, but there are far too many such complaints for me to really risk entering the game.
I am really disappointed as it seemed like a perfect phone initially. At the moment I am waiting for the Asus P565 or the Glaxy7 respectively for the next generation of the M8.
Would you say my concerns are valid? Somehow it seems many are not paid testers but actually paying ones.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Vast majority of the users here do not experience any of the problems you mentioned if you look at the polls conducted. Very small percentage of users do experience it, so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
Vast majority of the users are extremely satisfied with the device, this is a fact.
So, you need to make your own decision. If you believe there is a device more suited to your need, you should wait for it.
I do not think you're going to find too many people agreeing with your conclusion here though.
On the other hand, if you go to the Asus or iPhone forums, you may find many people supporting your views, but not on this forum.

People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.

patp said:
People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
In fact, we already have a few polls specifically for those and the results are plain for all to see.

Thanks Petrov and Tony. As I mentioned I know there are many who never experienced the stated problems, but dont you think the amount of people reporting the same problems over and over again (chipping and freezing in particular) hasnt reached already a number which might indicate an actual problem in the manufacturing process?
eaglesteve said:
so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest, at the moment I am definitely not willing to take the risk. This might change but currently all those reports about the mentioned issues do not convince me unfortunately.
eaglesteve said:
On the other hand, if you go to the Asus or iPhone forums, you may find many people supporting your views, but not on this forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where does the Apple forum come from? I did not even mentioned this phone.
As to the three I mentioned they are actually Windows Mobile phone, although from another manufacturer. I just mentioned they would very interesting alternatives.

patp said:
People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But then where does the chipping and freezing come from?

eaglesteve said:
Vast majority of the users here do not experience any of the problems you mentioned if you look at the polls conducted. Very small percentage of users do experience it, so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm. 38% have scratches already: http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1122
More than 60% suffer hangs ("frequent" hangs for more than 25%): http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1111
Where is this very small percentage you speak of?

drzoid said:
Where does the Apple forum come from? I did not even mentioned this phone.
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Click to collapse
No, this isn't directed at you.

Please bear in mind when reading reviews that everyone needs and expectations are different. I agree that this is not the perfect phone and I know that one will never be created.. but if you take all the phones on the market at the moment (with all there faults) then HTC HD is amongs the top. I rarely have freezes and no scratches etc. so for me I am happy with my purchase. I also look forward to improvement that the talented developers in these forum will offer now and in the near future.

prpmlp said:
Please bear in mind when reading reviews that everyone needs and expectations are different.
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True, but not true in terms of chipping and freezing. Nobody expects those .

Boinng said:
Hmm. More than half have scratches already: http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1122
More than 60% suffer hangs ("frequent" hangs for more than a quarter): http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1111
Where is this very small percentage you speak of?
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You can choose to interpret the result anyway you want to suit your already made up conclusion.
Vast number of people give this device 7,8,9,10 rating out of 10.
Device hanging happens but it does not necessarily bother us. I see 8% of the people bothered by it. You see 60% of people "suffer" hangs. If that pleases you, by all means.
We're not going to get a perfect device today. What we have here is the best in existence for many people because it suits their needs best. Yes, it chips and peels to varying degree, but overall still pleased with it.

I'm with mrpetrov and tonyblack on this one...
(EDIT - sorry, and all others who replied in the same vein since I started typing!)
The HD is also my first HTC device, and also my first WM device too.
I would most definately agree that it is not a phone for the masses, and this is probably equally true of HTC's previous devices.
However, the media (and to a certain extent HTC too) have hyped this phone up - typically with 'iPhone killer' tags.
Whist I'm most definately NOT going to get into that tired old argument again , it is true that there is the potential for a large number of people to stumble across the HD as being (on the face of it) a viable alternative to the iPhone.
There will be a number of those people who are disappointed - out of the box, for a novice smartphone user who simply wants to phone / text / play music / browse the web and watch videos, then the HD probably isn't as polished, or easy to use.
These people won't care about, or will be too frightened to find somewhere like this place to work out how to fix and tweak.
So. Back to the point of the OP
Do I feel like a 'paying tester'?
A bit, I guess, yes.
But (and this is not necessarily a good thing, just the way things are), this is nearly always the case for early adopters now.
Xbox 360 - early boxes overheat and get the Red Rings of Death.
iPhone - first versions come without 3G
My previous car (8th gen UK Civic) - early models had rear suspension springs installed up side down, fuel caps got stuck closed, built in hands free mic was rubbish.
These things all got fixed over time - but there is absolutely NO way that the manufacturers hadn't noticed them when the release deadline came around.
Someone somewhere said "right then. We HAVE to release this on such and such a date"
"But boss - we haven't finished testing yet!"
"Tough. The PS3 / iPhone 3G / BMW 1 series is out there, or about to be out there, and we need to get something on the market before we loose all our customers"
"But we'll loose them anyway if it blows up!"
"That's why they pay me the big bucks sonny - now hurry up and finish testing what you can"
*
Or something along those lines anyway
Long story (yes, apols for the length of this post!) short - if you want a solid, reliable product that is relatively bug free, then don't buy it on day 1.
* Please note that this conversation was added purely for the purpose of illusttration and probably didn't take place exactly as stated here, or indeed might not have taken place at all, especially at the offices of Microsoft, Honda or Apple. Or any other large corporate who might otherwise be thinking of trying to sue me!

TTDegs said:
I would most definately agree that it is not a phone for the masses, and this is probably equally true of HTC's previous devices.
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I wasnt looking for such a phone but I expect reliability and the chipping and freezing stories let me think I cant have it from the HD.
TTDegs said:
But (and this is not necessarily a good thing, just the way things are), this is nearly always the case for early adopters now.
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This is probably true, even though this doesnt make it more right.

HD compared to...
It would appear, that there seems to be a bit of both sides here.
Whilst it can be said, that some devices have really failed the user, and shortcuts appear to have been taken instead of holding back that little bit more.
The HTC club, allows certain content to be downloaded but not other due to your phone supplier. At the end of the day, small things like this tend to stick in the minds of their potential buyers.
My diamond's lasted 3 months (1 handset per month), HTC wouldnt assist, their advice buy a bigger battery, no problems reported. failure to reply to emails.
Every UK phone provider are aware of the battery short comings.
My provider actually realised the issue's with batteries, and put their hands in their pockets, bought a huge battery bank, the diamond ate it, like a beast and wanted more...
Orange UK, wrote the handset off, and agreed to supply & restart contract, due to the problems of the handset.
HTC did nothing!
I have had 4 htc devices - Orange branded M3100, best device, TyTnII, slipping, Diamond - total Avalanche, And now the HD, hope this is better, but only time will tell.

Why I am not buying this phone..!

I was an early adopter of the first generation touch HD and was instantly underwhelmed by this "flagship" phone, mainly due to its poor video capabilities and lack of TV out.
So, we on earth have yet again taken a step back?, no tv out, granted the video capabilites are up to scratch but to not offer TV out at this stage is for want of a better word and insult.
The main contenders the iphone and omnia 2 and omnia HD both offer good tv out but HTC have again decided to offer us a cut down "flagship" phone. For me this is the last straw.
Where I cannot move to IPhone as I hate itunes with a passion that should only be reserved for a child killer it is starting to look like this is the only option as the samsungs have there own little problems.
I have 7 months left on my contract and may even keep the HD until someone comes out with a decent snap drap / arm cpu that has HD out on winmo.
HD2, suck my pole..!

It's true that no TV Out is sad, but in which case should it be usefull?
I always have my computer when i want to watch thing on "big" screen...

stoolzo said:
I was an early adopter of the first generation touch HD and was instantly underwhelmed by this "flagship" phone, mainly due to its poor video capabilities and lack of TV out.
So, we on earth have yet again taken a step back?, no tv out, granted the video capabilites are up to scratch but to not offer TV out at this stage is for want of a better word and insult.
The main contenders the iphone and omnia 2 and omnia HD both offer good tv out but HTC have again decided to offer us a cut down "flagship" phone. For me this is the last straw.
Where I cannot move to IPhone as I hate itunes with a passion that should only be reserved for a child killer it is starting to look like this is the only option as the samsungs have there own little problems.
I have 7 months left on my contract and may even keep the HD until someone comes out with a decent snap drap / arm cpu that has HD out on winmo.
HD2, suck my pole..!
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Never needed a TV out on my phone and don't think I ever will. Guess its time to say bye bye! Main reason I stay with HTC is for the overwhelming support on this forum. Good look on finding that with the Omnia.

Wait til the Tegra phones start coming out, then it's more likely to happen.

I think the usefulness of TV out speaks for itself which is why it is already on the main contender flagship phones and on other HTC devices. Watching movies with freinds, showing photo slidehows with family, business presentations etc, the uses are endless.

I don't understand all the emotion surrounding these phones, if you like it you buy if you don't, buy it not. I was disappointed in the TP2 specs, so I did not buy it. Someone wiser than me once said: Don't leave angry, just leave. It's better that way though, right?

One thing i don't understand... You'r Coming to this Forum to say that you Wont buy a hd2? It's like I go to a ford seller to say that I won't buy a ford... So what?

This comes from the frustration I have witht he HD v1 and HTC's dealing with drivers and video performance (still unaddressed). like me a lot of people were hoping this was going to be the phone the HD1 wasnt, disapointment, not anger really.

12aon said:
I don't understand all the emotion surrounding these phones, if you like it you buy if you don't, buy it not. I was disappointed in the TP2 specs, so I did not buy it. Someone wiser than me once said: Don't leave angry, just leave. It's better that way though, right?
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haha, well said. +1

12aon said:
I don't understand all the emotion surrounding these phones, if you like it you buy if you don't, buy it not. I was disappointed in the TP2 specs, so I did not buy it. Someone wiser than me once said: Don't leave angry, just leave. It's better that way though, right?
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+1 here as well.
I'm not quite sure what all the fuss is about. Yes, the mobile phone market is now about having as many features as possible on 1 device, but how many people make use of all the features? The more features they can cram into one device the more compromises they make over the quality of them all. There's two lists of requirements, 'must haves' and 'nice to haves', video call, TV-out better camera are all part of the nice to have list. HTC has always been a business oriented company focusing on the needs of the business and they have never set out to be the best of the best. It's was only when Samsung and Apple arrived on the scene that everyone demanded HTC to be more consumer focused. HTC are making slow progress to addressing this issue and they'll slowly get there. Look at Blackberries, they're still going strong and most of their phones have half the features we're expecting these days.
So, if you don't like the HD2, don't complain, you either like it or hate it! Move on!

TOUCH HD vs. OMNIA II vs. HD 2
Hello
I'm coming from an ETEN X500 over a N95 for two years and I want to go back to touchscreen now. I know the usage of the HD from a friend of mine, the Iphone and I have played around for 3 Hours last Thursday with the OMNIA II i8000.
The result is, that the OMNIA has TV Out but you can not use this thing in everydays life. Its awfull slow, the UI is horrible and the touchscreen is bad.
The AMOLED is great, ok. But at the end I think Samsung needs about 2 generations of phones to reach the Touch HD. And if the HD 2 is only half as good as the reviews say its much better than the Samsung devices.
The lag of TV-Out is sad anyway.
Bye

stoolzo said:
I was an early adopter of the first generation touch HD and was instantly underwhelmed by this "flagship" phone, mainly due to its poor video capabilities and lack of TV out.
So, we on earth have yet again taken a step back?, no tv out, granted the video capabilites are up to scratch but to not offer TV out at this stage is for want of a better word and insult.
The main contenders the iphone and omnia 2 and omnia HD both offer good tv out but HTC have again decided to offer us a cut down "flagship" phone. For me this is the last straw.
Where I cannot move to IPhone as I hate itunes with a passion that should only be reserved for a child killer it is starting to look like this is the only option as the samsungs have there own little problems.
I have 7 months left on my contract and may even keep the HD until someone comes out with a decent snap drap / arm cpu that has HD out on winmo.
HD2, suck my pole..!
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Click to collapse
your posting is just to personal. I saw numerous complaints about lack video out, but I'm sure just a small amount of users like you will be disappointed, but is this a real deal breaker? It doesn't bother me a tiny bit at all. I was disappointed only by the lack of front camera, but I wouldn't make a thread trying to tell everyone HD2 sucks because it doesn't have one for me. How many phones are that perfect so far? HD2 is pretty much the most perfect phone to me and I'm sure to many others that didn't even bother about your complaint here.

12aon said:
I don't understand all the emotion surrounding these phones, if you like it you buy if you don't, buy it not. I was disappointed in the TP2 specs, so I did not buy it. Someone wiser than me once said: Don't leave angry, just leave. It's better that way though, right?
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You are one Cool dude

mallman said:
haha, well said. +1
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Signed!
Another +1

lol, what a load of lovely "emotional" reactions, if you agree with 12aon's post, in that you actually understand what he was saying then some of you should be asking youselves why you bothered to post and did not just ignore my comments...

...
shu8i said:
One thing i don't understand... You'r Coming to this Forum to say that you Wont buy a hd2? It's like I go to a ford seller to say that I won't buy a ford... So what?
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lol damn right, +10

Im not buying the HD2 because i dont like the boot screen!

nicelad_uk said:
Never needed a TV out on my phone and don't think I ever will. Guess its time to say bye bye! Main reason I stay with HTC is for the overwhelming support on this forum. Good look on finding that with the Omnia.
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+1
I don't see the need for TV out either...with a 360 and upnp I can stream from any of my laptops etc, and frankly if I'm brining media elsewhere I'm not going to cross my fingers that whereever I go is going to have the right connector (vga vs hdmi vs component vs svideo vs rca etc).
It's too bad that this is such an important thing to you- my real concerns are lack of a d-pad, but even that won't stop me from picking one of these up like free booze at an AA convention.

clearly you all have much more money than I do, when I buy a new gadget, (now lets not pretend it is anything else as if you just wanted a phone you would still have your 10 year old nokia), I want to get my moneys worth. For me to shell out another effective £500+ on a phone it has to be a decent upgrade.. what are we really getting here?, big screen, so what?, same res as hd1, compass, give me a break, speed - granted you get speed but with the right ROM the HD1 is more than adequate to do most things, albeit with a bit of reenocding.

stoolzo said:
clearly you all have much more money than I do, when I buy a new gadget, (now lets not pretend it is anything else as if you just wanted a phone you would still have your 10 year old nokia), I want to get my moneys worth. For me to shell out another effective £500+ on a phone it has to be a decent upgrade.. what are we really getting here?, big screen, so what?, same res as hd1, compass, give me a break, speed - granted you get speed but with the right ROM the HD1 is more than adequate to do most things, albeit with a bit of reenocding.
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I am no HD Owner but from my raph point of perspective this is a pretty decent upgrade and I feel after all this time squeezing the most out of my raph that this phone out of the box doesn't need any squeezing. When I will cook a ROM for this phone I'm going to make sure that everthing that works now is stays that way and loose the extra's.
If you have a chance to test it or check it out, I would recommend doing so you might be a little more suprised then you suspect. That being said there are still a couple of decent devices in HTC's line up, and if you are HTC HD you might just have to hold on to your HD for a bit, as its probably to young for you to throw it aside ,
12

Let's talk multitouch. Can we verify that it's a hardware limitation?

I'm sure a lot of you guys saw this Engadget article talking about how the Xperia X10 is missing multitouch at a hardware level. I'm sorta hoping that the SE project manager is just trying to throw people off the trail, and that maybe the phone secretly uses touchscreen hardware similar to the Nexus One's or any of the other Android phones that "didn't have multitouch" but managed to show up with it later.
Obviously it's a bit early to expect folks to have played around with the device yet, but I'm very interested. If we can pin down for sure whether or not the hardware supports multitouch, that would be a nice thing to know.

Another thought SE is not talking about multi touch ....
Isn't it being owned by Apple?

hkfriends said:
Another thought SE is not talking about multi touch ....
Isn't it being owned by Apple?
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They don't talk about anything more or less. They have said that the X10 isn't capable of more than one press at a time. No deal breaker for me though.

Flamso said:
They don't talk about anything more or less. They have said that the X10 isn't capable of more than one press at a time. No deal breaker for me though.
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I agree, i've used the phone for 2 weeks and don't miss multitouch. It isn't THAT important...

It's no deal breaker at the moment, but i must admit every now and again i wish it had it.
It seemed like an instinctual way to zoom in/out of browser,emails,maps,docs.
However I actually find myself using this handset more in portrait than landscape and the zooming keys and box works fine.
I think as android's gaming platform develops it will become a more of a requirement.
I was playing a fighting game on the iphone recently and was able activate special moves by pressing two buttons simultaneously.
Oh well, as long as they don't disappoint with the 16m colours and 2.1 multitouch can be overlooked for now.

Baggyb said:
I think as android's gaming platform develops it will become a more of a requirement.
.
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I agree but there is still a very long way to go. Maybe by the time we hit 3.0 and Qualcomm replace the aging ATi gfx core in their Snapdragon SoC later this year. But by that time i'll have moved on and away from the X10 They only last 4-7 months for me

Trekster said:
They only last 4-7 months for me
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Same goes for me as well I'm already eyeing up the Desire, Iphone 4g and the EVO (If UK bound).

Umm, it was confirmed by Sony early last week (Sumit Malhotra confirms no MT):
Back in November, I posted that X10 will not support multi touch functionality at launch, but will be considered for the future. I can appreciate that even though there wasn´t a commitment, such wording both creates expectations (small or big) on future support and implies restrictions on software side.
That is the information I had in hand at that point of time. I am well aware that you rate multi touch functionality very high and therefore I regret to inform you that X10 screen hardware does not register simultaneous entries. Meaning even though we will upgrade the underlying operating system in relation to upgrading our user experience layer, X10 will not support multi touch functionality. We believe that it is important for you who follow this blog to be clear on that, which is the reason why I want to confirm Rikard’s comment.
We are working on alternative solutions for certain use cases, like zooming. I will share more details about that initiative once confirmed.
Due to vendor understanding and agreements, we don´t discuss in detail regarding hardware specifications. Having said that, X10 is upgradable and as earlier described there will be significant value offered through upgrades. X10 is about to reach stores and early consumer feedback is very positive, also highlighting room for improvement which we will share in due time.
Regards,
Sumit
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Seeing the damage that has resulted from this confirmation (many potential buyers have decided to go with other phones instead), I can't see why SE would have made this statement if it were untrue.

Have worked with a few companies over the years who have made big official statements like this which actually turned out to be wrong, unless someone looks under the hood and checks the hardware themsevles i'd take it with a pinch of salt.
NB. I'm not deluding myself in anyway or building up false hope, I love this phone and it would be nice to have multi touch but i'm not overly bothered!

Super_Bob said:
Have worked with a few companies over the years who have made big official statements like this which actually turned out to be wrong, unless someone looks under the hood and checks the hardware themsevles i'd take it with a pinch of salt.
NB. I'm not deluding myself in anyway or building up false hope, I love this phone and it would be nice to have multi touch but i'm not overly bothered!
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Yeah, agreed. If it turns out that the X10 has dual touch I'd be really happy! But it doesn't really matter.

who cares?????>?

elson14 said:
who cares?????>?
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People playing games?

Browsing through /dev/input i found a udex 244:0 es209ra touch controller and startet to google that, ...
Someone in Japan is trying to get further information about single/multitouch of that chip/driver ...
http://translate.googleusercontent....&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhhpQRfyYSHH9UxvdJN5GjYIccswTA
i didnt really get the clue reading that article, ...
Bax

The X10 might get multi-touch. It is still being considered. hxxp://blogs.sonyericsson.com/products/2009/11/05/answers-to-some-of-your-questions/ (first question)

Rohlow said:
The X10 might get multi-touch. It is still being considered. hxxp://blogs.sonyericsson.com/products/2009/11/05/answers-to-some-of-your-questions/ (first question)
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That's old.
From last year.
IF you google it you will see, another SE rep said is a hardware issue and X10 will never have MT.
Only one thing will help (outside of games ofcourse): GESTURES but i don't think X10 will get global gestures (not application based) either

tuxStyle said:
That's old.
From last year.
IF you google it you will see, another SE rep said is a hardware issue and X10 will never have MT.
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Yeah no kidding. The article I linked in the OP says this, even -- and it's much newer than that blog post.

Does anyone believe that whether X10 have multi touch or not will ultimately depends on the lawsuit between Apple and HTC? It is obvious that Apple is suing HTC for patents infringement and multi-touch is one of them.
It is only right that SE don't depend/consider on the multi touch for now. Wait for the case to settle and announce accordingly. Agreed?

pinkmota said:
Does anyone believe that whether X10 have multi touch or not will ultimately depends on the lawsuit between Apple and HTC? It is obvious that Apple is suing HTC for patents infringement and multi-touch is one of them.
It is only right that SE don't depend/consider on the multi touch for now. Wait for the case to settle and announce accordingly. Agreed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, I think SE is trying new ways of 'zooming' (allthough MT is not all about zooming) to not get in trouble with Apple in the USA. They could introduce MT in Europe though as Apples MT patent only applies in the USA. However then they should come up with two solutions, one for USA, one for example for Europe and that would probably be to much work...

With all the bad press they received with regards to the multitouch (MT). I now believe it is hardware as SE have not tried to defend themselves.
They have actually confirmed that the hardware doesn't support MT. So it sounds as though they opted for the clearpad 1000.
The only thing that unsettles me is that when I spoke to SE direct 2-4 weeks before launch, the rep was confident that the issue was software based.
It wasn't until the SE Blog broke the news that the reps at SE changed their minds and said that it would never support MT.
I mean the Droid wasn't multi touch in the US but the UK variant was. This was all down to software, but the X10 issue somehow feels different.
My next big fear is colour support 65k, 252k or 16m. Another issue that was confirmed as a software limitation. Android 1.6 being the limiting factor to 65k.
I was told by SE 2.1 would bring 16m. However I have also heard that the actual screen supports only 252K. I'm still non the wiser.

Yea, the 65k is another problem.
SE didn't say anything about that so, is a big chance to have more than 65k after android upgrade but even if it won't have, we can't do anything about it as we will (or already did) buy a phone with 65k
This is what is written in specs