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You just have to read this article! According to 'beatweek' (no, I've never heard of it either) the Android OS is doomed to failure! Wow! Thanks for clearing that up beatweek! I'll just go trade in my Nexus One now and get an iPhone 4! Thanks for the tip!
http://www.beatweek.com/news/6810-verizon-needs-verizon-iphone-more-than-apple-after-droid-debacle/
Edit: Yes, I should've just quoted the article and not had you guys go to their website! So, here it is -
"Verizon needs Verizon iPhone more than Apple, after Droid debacle
July 25, 2010
Three years of talking about a Verizon iPhone, and still nothing to show for it. What we have instead are two facts that are sharply at odds with each other: Verizon customers want a Verizon iPhone, if their continual cries of the past three years are to be believed. And Apple is selling such an overwhelming number of iPhones to the point of extended delays and backorders, even with the limitation of continued AT&T exclusivity, that there wouldn’t be enough iPhone 4 inventory to hypothetically share with Verizon customers anyway. Apple can likely get out of its exclusive AT&T deal any time it wants just to by writing a large enough check, but that still offers no clue as to just when it might finally happen. But if you heard a loud thud off in the distance this week, it was the hopes and aspirations of the competing Android platform, in which Verizon has invested heavily with its Droid and Droid X, coming crashing down into what will apparently soon be a mere pile of rubble. As reported by CNN this week, a Yankee Group study reveals that an astounding four out of five current Android users have no plans to buy another Android phone. And that’s game over.
While Google’s own Android-based Nexus One phone has been canceled due to lack of interest, Verizon’s Android-based Droid has been selling quite well (though not nearly as well the platform’s most overenthusiastic users would like you to believe). But it doesn’t matter how many units you’re selling or how many new customers you’re acquiring if eighty percent of them are so dissatisfied with the platform that they’re already plotting their escape. It’s too soon to predict how many of the Android escapees will end up landing on the iPhone, but what is clear is that most Verizon customers who bought a Droid did so because they wanted an iPhone but weren’t willing to switch to AT&T, and so they settled for the closest thing to an iPhone they could get their hands on. Apparently not close enough, however, as the Android has now been revealed to be the fastest-sinking technology platform since, well maybe, ever.
But if the situation is so obviously dire that external temperature takers can now figure out that most Android users are looking to bail out of the platform when they buy their next phone, then it’s a safe bet that Verizon has already known this for at least a little while. So even as the carrier is dumping inordinate amounts of money in launching its new Droid X phone (and selling plenty of them, to be fair), Verizon likely has its left eye focused on endings the longstanding impasse with Apple and getting its hands on the iPhone to ensure that all these dissatisfied Android users don’t also leave Verizon when they leave the Android platform. In other words, Verizon now needs a Verizon iPhone more than Apple needs a Verizon iPhone. After all, that same CNN report shows that four out of five iPhone users plan to remain with the iPhone, the exact opposite scenario being faced by makers of Android-based phones. The question then becomes what kind of concessions Verizon is willing to make in order to get its hands on the iPhone sooner rather than later. After all, unlike Apple, whose cellular presence lives and dies with the iPhone itself, Verizon’s primary priority is in ensuring that its current customers remain with the carrier; which particular phone they end up buying is secondary to the fact that they simply stay with Verizon.
Not only do we now know that the Android platform is a sinking ship, we also know that Verizon knows it, and perhaps most importantly, Apple now knows that Verizon knows it. The timetable for a Verizon iPhone is still anybody’s guess, but with most current Droid users presumably ending up with an iPhone when it’s all said and done, look for Verizon to try to make a Verizon iPhone happen as soon as possible – and with Apple’s known penchant for driving a hard bargain with potential partners, expect Verizon to be in a much weaker bargaining position than the Droid’s cheerleaders might expect. Here’s more on the Verizon iPhone."
Oh look, CNN Money's ****ty article with no details about the statistics strikes again. Why are journalists so dumb not to think for themselves.
Formerly known as iProng. Yeah definitely rabid fanboi site.
sliverofme said:
You just have to read this article! According to 'beatweek' (no, I've never heard of it either) the Android OS is doomed to failure! Wow! Thanks for clearing that up beatweek! I'll just go trade in my Nexus One now and get an iPhone 4! Thanks for the tip!
http://www.beatweek.com/news/6810-verizon-needs-verizon-iphone-more-than-apple-after-droid-debacle/
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Click to collapse
Quote the article instead of just linking - that way you don't drive traffic hits to their site.
MaximReapage said:
Quote the article instead of just linking - that way you don't drive traffic hits to their site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Quote dont link.
Here you guys go, BEWARE: THIS ARTICLE IS GUARANTEED TO ANGER YOU MORE THEN ANY OF THE RECENT ARTICLES. They use that recent "bogus" statistic to prove that android is a flop basically. Also, this is from an iPhone fan site, so im not sure why we are even reading it, its no more important then an android article is to an iphone user base.
Verizon needs Verizon iPhone more than Apple, after Droid debacle
July 25, 2010
Three years of talking about a Verizon iPhone, and still nothing to show for it. What we have instead are two facts that are sharply at odds with each other: Verizon customers want a Verizon iPhone, if their continual cries of the past three years are to be believed. And Apple is selling such an overwhelming number of iPhones to the point of extended delays and backorders, even with the limitation of continued AT&T exclusivity, that there wouldn’t be enough iPhone 4 inventory to hypothetically share with Verizon customers anyway. Apple can likely get out of its exclusive AT&T deal any time it wants just to by writing a large enough check, but that still offers no clue as to just when it might finally happen. But if you heard a loud thud off in the distance this week, it was the hopes and aspirations of the competing Android platform, in which Verizon has invested heavily with its Droid and Droid X, coming crashing down into what will apparently soon be a mere pile of rubble. As reported by CNN this week, a Yankee Group study reveals that an astounding four out of five current Android users have no plans to buy another Android phone. And that’s game over.
While Google’s own Android-based Nexus One phone has been canceled due to lack of interest, Verizon’s Android-based Droid has been selling quite well (though not nearly as well the platform’s most overenthusiastic users would like you to believe). But it doesn’t matter how many units you’re selling or how many new customers you’re acquiring if eighty percent of them are so dissatisfied with the platform that they’re already plotting their escape. It’s too soon to predict how many of the Android escapees will end up landing on the iPhone, but what is clear is that most Verizon customers who bought a Droid did so because they wanted an iPhone but weren’t willing to switch to AT&T, and so they settled for the closest thing to an iPhone they could get their hands on. Apparently not close enough, however, as the Android has now been revealed to be the fastest-sinking technology platform since, well maybe, ever.
But if the situation is so obviously dire that external temperature takers can now figure out that most Android users are looking to bail out of the platform when they buy their next phone, then it’s a safe bet that Verizon has already known this for at least a little while. So even as the carrier is dumping inordinate amounts of money in launching its new Droid X phone (and selling plenty of them, to be fair), Verizon likely has its left eye focused on endings the longstanding impasse with Apple and getting its hands on the iPhone to ensure that all these dissatisfied Android users don’t also leave Verizon when they leave the Android platform. In other words, Verizon now needs a Verizon iPhone more than Apple needs a Verizon iPhone. After all, that same CNN report shows that four out of five iPhone users plan to remain with the iPhone, the exact opposite scenario being faced by makers of Android-based phones. The question then becomes what kind of concessions Verizon is willing to make in order to get its hands on the iPhone sooner rather than later. After all, unlike Apple, whose cellular presence lives and dies with the iPhone itself, Verizon’s primary priority is in ensuring that its current customers remain with the carrier; which particular phone they end up buying is secondary to the fact that they simply stay with Verizon.
Not only do we now know that the Android platform is a sinking ship, we also know that Verizon knows it, and perhaps most importantly, Apple now knows that Verizon knows it. The timetable for a Verizon iPhone is still anybody’s guess, but with most current Droid users presumably ending up with an iPhone when it’s all said and done, look for Verizon to try to make a Verizon iPhone happen as soon as possible – and with Apple’s known penchant for driving a hard bargain with potential partners, expect Verizon to be in a much weaker bargaining position than the Droid’s cheerleaders might expect. Here’s more on the Verizon iPhone.
I didn't read a single post of this thread. . .
And I can safely say from the title "hahahahahahahahah"
Eat my Android Apple, you've been hosed. Welcome to the new revolution in cellular technology.
Anything involving fruit can be discarded, Android is top of the line and constantly improving free of cost
Thank you to everyone that contributes, I love my Androids and would never consider owning an Iphony
lol, the whole site is an iProduct circle jerk worship session.
See, this is how the internet works.
Bozo #1 basically trolls or skews some information, blogs it
Random people find it and quote it
Other bloggers find it and quote it
It gets spread in random directions, most not attributed to the original Bozo #1
Bozo #1 finds blogs/tweets/etc "validating" his information and probably blogs such
Other random people quote that his results are lining up with other's opinions..
It's a circle of hell.
"While Google’s own Android-based Nexus One phone has been canceled due to lack of interest"
That totally discredits the author completely.
sliverofme said:
You just have to read this article! According to 'beatweek' (no, I've never heard of it either) the Android OS is doomed to failure! Wow! Thanks for clearing that up beatweek! I'll just go trade in my Nexus One now and get an iPhone 4! Thanks for the tip!
http://www.beatweek.com/news/6810-verizon-needs-verizon-iphone-more-than-apple-after-droid-debacle/
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Click to collapse
No need to get upset =)
Personally, I find it quite funny.
Let them yell, Android is moving ahead in gigantic steps, and nothing can stop its business model. No-licence, 100%-customizable, manufacturer-indifferent, platform-independant, open-source software will always win. It's the law of the universe. You can't stop progress.
Think about it. It's Steve Jobs (as a sole manufacturer and distributor of iOS) VERSUS an entire WORLD of hardware manufacturers and software engineers. You can't win. Apple cannot possible have enough ideas or innovation to beat the whole planet.
So.. sit back, laugh and watch it unravel. It'll be a good story with a good moral for your kids.
It's pretty humorous how they extrapolated all that insight from a misquote.
Seems to me that this guy is just unhappy that he can't get an iphone on verizon.
Interesting he says that because this says something completely different:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-23/verizon-earnings-beat-estimates-on-demand-for-smartphones-running-android.html
"Thanks to the omnipresent green robot, Verizon reported a stronger second quarter earnings report than expected by analysts. The carrier added 665,000 net new contract customers in the period, topping AT&T's net addition of 496,000 contract signing customers despite the latter's launch of the iPhone 4 on June 24th. "
From both phonearena and bloomberg.
player911 said:
"While Google’s own Android-based Nexus One phone has been canceled due to lack of interest"
That totally discredits the author completely.
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exactly. its funny we have a quote from a verizon preson saying they did not cancel the nexus one, that they wanted it, but that it was google that cancelled it on them.
Just another false propaganda article that's not worth crap.
erikikaz said:
Interesting he says that because this says something completely different:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-23/verizon-earnings-beat-estimates-on-demand-for-smartphones-running-android.html
"Thanks to the omnipresent green robot, Verizon reported a stronger second quarter earnings report than expected by analysts. The carrier added 665,000 net new contract customers in the period, topping AT&T's net addition of 496,000 contract signing customers despite the latter's launch of the iPhone 4 on June 24th. "
From both phonearena and bloomberg.
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this is probably why that hater wrote the article
this site is defly a apple fanboy site. just look at his twitter! (if youre curious: http://twitter.com/beatweek) apple advertisements all over!!
"beatweek ....formerly iprong"...... wtf
guys, let this issue die, I think its embarrassing enough that they dont even read the statistics they are reading. Here is the real statistics.
http://www.businessinsider.com/that-story-saying-that-only-20-of-android-owners-say-theyll-buy-another-one-its-not-true-2010-7#ixzz0v12muYgx"
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010...n=Feed:+TheBoyGeniusReport+(Boy+Genius+Report)
Not good news...looks like Q4 for 2.1.
Why do you say that? "Coming weeks" falls in line with the end of Q3 schedule quite nicely.
AT&T is too late.
x10 isn't as attractive than evo 4g or droid x or galaxy S.
Not to mention Iphone.
I don't see their sales will go up. Now if x10 was released in feb or match by At&T that's another story.
wrongfeifong said:
AT&T is too late.
x10 isn't as attractive than evo 4g or droid x or galaxy S.
Not to mention Iphone.
I don't see their sales will go up. Now if x10 was released in feb or match by At&T that's another story.
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What do u mean x10 isn't attractive?Galaxy S is just another iphone ripoff, evo 4g looks like a brick sent into a squashing machine and while the droid x doesn't look too bad, it doesn't compare to the X10's design
wrongfeifong said:
AT&T is too late.
x10 isn't as attractive than evo 4g or droid x or galaxy S.
Not to mention Iphone.
I don't see their sales will go up. Now if x10 was released in feb or match by At&T that's another story.
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Click to collapse
what? are you serious ?
Sadly, North americans are people that sulk in pursuing numbers and names. Not their functions nor design.
If not then Iphone wouldn't be sold so many here. which iphone user actually looked into and compare the function of Iphone against other before buying an Iphone.
And evo 4g isn't really 4g (from what i read). But everyone think it is 4g and buy it out.
While functions, x10 lost to all the latest phones. The only thing that is attractive enough is SE's brand name, which some of us bought it because of it.
wrongfeifong said:
Sadly, North americans are people that sulk in pursuing numbers and names. Not their functions nor design.
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I'm not into names, numbers or looks, only function.
Bought the X10 because it was/is the largest screen Android phone in Canada with North American 3G. (wasn't going to pay $800 to import an N1)
Happy with Android 1.6 but wish it did BT Voice Dial.
Don't care about looks which is why I stuck a 2600mAh battery in it's butt
BTW, I also never understood the iPhone attraction.
x10 is very good looking in white or black, It fits in the hand good not like the hd2. Soon or later 2.1 would come, and I don't care about 2.2. Anyway, all I want to say is x10 is good and just give it a try.
Sorry, but your posts make no sense. The Evo 4G is 4G, which is available only in a very limited number of major American cities.
The Evo 4G is not a true competitor for any other phone because it is such a niche product.
The Galaxy S, Droid Incredible, Droid X, and Droid 2 are the X10's biggest competition, but I assume that AT&T will price the X10 accordingly (i.e. lower than the others).
hmm so where is HondaGuy? Any answers for doubting me that the X10 is coming to AT&T since I was the first to state it a while ago?
The AT&T logo appears only in the back on the cover, we get to keep our XPERIA logo on the front
And 2.1 will be ready near the end of Q3 in September, the Q4 one is something else Let's just say we will be happy 2 more times with our X10 before the year ends
As late as the x10 is coming into the game for the american market, I feel that it is still plenty competitive with other flagship smartphones. There are only few minor issues with the x10, being the lack of MT and the lower built in ram and rom.
If at&t markets the phone correctly to those looking for a high quality camera phone, I think the x10 can make a great impression. While looks is an interpretive concept, I have heard a lot of positive comments about the phone's design and imo is currently the best looking phone available with android. For those reasons, I think the x10 will definitely get some crapple converts.
Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk
The way that the 4 is selling out everywhere, no "crapple" owner is going to convert.
However, plenty of RIM users will jump onto the Android train.
These are hish wash here in the US. You go to ATT local store all you can see is selection of 10 crappy phone which they have put four of each in every corner (4x10 - 40 crappy phones) and a stand with iPhone on it. I have been ATT customer for 4 years now and I have never bought a phone from them. Phone Company in the US suck with no options. People don't care about the phone, as long as it has iphone options or some cool other feature or even if it doesn't.
We see the phones as gadget many people don't see it that way.
I wish t-mobile could bring their European policy here in the US.$0 for phone anything you like.
Let them be happy with their iPhone. as long as they are not using it for their pregnancy test.
Some reason I think X10 will do great in US.
When X10 was realesed, I doubted that it won't really do well in front of HTC and Motorola as it was Sony Ericsson's first Android device and no multitouch with 1.6
When I bought, I was amazed. I think the user experience is Brilliant!!! Top notch phone with hardware specs. The problem is not X10, it's the Sony Ericsson's delays with upgrades, but not to forget they are catching up. It's not they are not doing anything about it
First of all I am not what I would call a fan boy even though every major appliance in my house is a Samsung, even the dishwasher. I have an S3 phone and the Note 10.1 is my constant companion. Lately I have been wondering as we wait for JB update (both phone and tablet) if the Apple ruling in the USA is hampering the speed that we are getting Samsung updates or software. Hell, you can barely get any accessories for the Note 10.1 in the US much less an update. There are even issues with some software available on the the Samsung app store that due to licensing issues Samsung can't sell in the US but the rest of the world has full access.
I love my tablet and would not trade it for any other. Works great as it is and if JB never came I would be fine. However, I think that it is possible we will see a much different user experience here in the states over the next few years when it comes to Samsung Tablets and Phones than the rest of the world. Until Apple gets off the crack pipe and stops litigating every electronic item that comes out we may have an issue.
Thoughts?
rap6388 said:
...if the Apple ruling in the USA is hampering the speed that we are getting Samsung updates or software.
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Click to collapse
It's just Samsung's priorities or lack thereof. HTC's just as bad. And both typically launch updates internationally first so our friends overseas aren't getting something we're not since other than the one German carrier ROM no Note has JB. The JB roll-out on the SGS3's not going particularly well and the One X JB update went back to the drawing board after problems were encountered when it was rolled out to the first region to receive it (Taiwan). So it’s the update process that sucks and the U.S. is just along for the ride.
Hell, you can barely get any accessories for the Note 10.1 in the US
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Or Europe. The car dock for the GN was released nine months after it was shown. Same thing for the wireless charging station for the SGS3. The U.S. actually got the book cover for the Note before Europe. The accessory line is just mismanaged; I don't think the U.S. fares better or worse than the rest of the world. And again, HTC's the same. Kind of makes you wonder why they offer accessories at all if they don't want to sell them.
I think that it is possible we will see a much different user experience here in the states over the next few years when it comes to Samsung Tablets and Phones than the rest of the world.
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You need to separate tablets and phones. Phones are always going to be a cluster here in the U.S because Samsung doesn't sell unlocked phones directly and the carriers here are notorious for their lack of urgency for getting updates out. The U.S. Wi-Fi Note is a Samsung direct device and so far hasn't been treated better or worse than its international relatives when it comes to updates. Samsung customizes the s/w by region for each device they sell. The U.S. is just another region and a big one at that. Certain Android features are blocked in the U.S. by both Samsung and HTC but so far that hasn’t appeared to affect the update schedule one way or the other.
Don't you guys never heard abaut ebay (de or gb). And considering on updates, sammobile page is available on whole earth.
No, its the same everywhere else. I'm in the uk and have received 0 updates.
im in egypt and no update
i wish the give the update to world wide very soon
I don't think I was clear. This is not about the JB update but just Samungs' position in the market right now with Apple hanging over their head based on the over the top billion dollar ruling.
For example, there is an app in Samsung market called DirectOffice Print. It is a great print app but the US owner can't buy the app on the app store because of contract issues Samsung has in the US. It is items like this and features that the US seem to miss that I am speaking of.
rap6388 said:
I don't think I was clear. This is not about the JB update but just Samungs' position in the market right now with Apple hanging over their head based on the over the top billion dollar ruling.
For example, there is an app in Samsung market called DirectOffice Print. It is a great print app but the US owner can't buy the app on the app store because of contract issues Samsung has in the US. It is items like this and features that the US seem to miss that I am speaking of.
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Click to collapse
The Samsung App store not being able to manage payments in the U.S. is an infrastructure issue that has nothing to do with Apple. They've said U.S. payments will be in enable in Q1 2013. And the "billion dollar ruling" is a drop in the bucket; they made $7.4B in profit in Q3 of this year alone. By raising Apple's chip prices 20% they probably covered it if they indeed ever have to pay it. The Note V will be out by the time appeals are exhausted. If Samsung's not doing something or not doing it right it's because their Samsung. They get a lot right but they get a lot wrong too.
rap6388 said:
I don't think I was clear. This is not about the JB update but just Samungs' position in the market right now with Apple hanging over their head based on the over the top billion dollar ruling.
For example, there is an app in Samsung market called DirectOffice Print. It is a great print app but the US owner can't buy the app on the app store because of contract issues Samsung has in the US. It is items like this and features that the US seem to miss that I am speaking of.
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Click to collapse
Well, as much as I hate to say it, this is how Sammy does business.
It's worse if you're in Canada.
Samsung Canada has a reciprocal agreement with Samsung USA not to sell to each other's market. But Samsung Canada doesn't feel there's much demand in Canada for computer products - just phones... (although it is getting better - we now have netbooks... Yes, that was sarcasm...) so we either get Samsung products late or not at all. And even though we're right on the border - we can cross border shop - we can't buy the products in the US online and have it shipped.
Ironically, Samsung opened their first North American full time store in Metrotown Mall in Burnaby British Columbia Canada (a suburb of Vancouver).but they can't show most of their products because they're not available in Canada and you can't buy them from the US.
And even though Canada uses the same cell and WiFi frequencies as the US, we get 'special' verisons of their products that block us from getting updates at the same time as the US. (That's why there's a GN 8010 AND a GN 8013 that are essentially identical). I had the same problem with my Galaxy Nexus phone - the Canadian version is a yakjuux which is supported (barely) by Samsung rather than the yakju version that's supported by Google directly,.
Like you - most of my hardware is Samsung - simply because they build exactly what I want. No one else does. But it means I have to drive to the US and buy these over the counter and drive them back, or have a friend in the US ship it to me.
I may like Samsung's products - but the company sucks...
Side note: Also, they're lousy at getting accessories in big box stores like Best Buy and Future Shop up here... I was trying to get a Note 10.1 Book case and the Samsung Store was out. They recommended going to BB or FS and I had to point out that neither of them actually carry any Samsung accessories - hell, it's hard enough finding the Note 10.1 in some of them...
I should have learned my lesson when I had my Tab 10.1, took them a year to update it to ICS. By the time they did that, I had been using unofficial ROM for about 4 months (give or take). Not acceptable. This is definitely my last Samsung tablet, even though I love it dearly. Samsung don't deserve one single dime for their awful commitment to customer's satisfaction.
Gotta get Nexus
if you want the latest ROMS
mrdaco said:
Don't you guys never heard abaut ebay (de or gb). And considering on updates, sammobile page is available on whole earth.
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That's not a solution. If I wanted to buy from unreliable and potentially shady resellers - I'd buy at Best Buy.
At least they have a return policy...
The point is that if you're going to make products, you should support them well. Or at all. Samsung is the leader in sales for smartphones and are rapidly growing in market share for tablets... yet they still can't get Best Buy to carry cases for their phones or tablets. All you get is the usual wall after wall of iDevice crap.
Best Buy isn't a charity - they carry what they think will sell - or what the manufacturer will pay them to carry (yes, surprise - manufacturers pay for special displays and 'endcaps' as well as for preferred positioning - higher on a shelf for example). Samsung has to spend a bit more to get the visibility Apple gets. They have to realise that customer support is more than just having a lousy website that's more about selling more product than about supporting the customers they already have...
But 'return customer' and 'customer loyalty' seems very low on Asian hardware maker's minds, it would seem.
TheWerewolf said:
But 'return customer' and 'customer loyalty' seems very low on Asian hardware maker's minds, it would seem.
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The h/w business is almost entirely Asian with the exception of Apple, Nokia, and Motorola. We've discussed update priorities, accessory availability, and general attention to existing customer's needs. Only Motorola sells Android devices so it's them vs. the Asians if you want to draw a comparison. I've owned devices from Motorola and most of the Asian manufacturers. Here's my conclusion: they all suck in the three categories we're discussing. Let's add a fourth category; product quality. Here's my quick assessment:
Samsung - Means well but gets caught up in their enormity. Their priority is clearly future sales but they generally tend to treat the existing customer base well. There are exceptions and the OG G-Tab update to ICS is a good one. By offering dozens of different s/w types on a single device they make their own life more difficult. Rolling out updates across regions is a cluster because of it. They have terrific warranty service and will pay roundtrip shipping for repairs and replace a device with a new one if parts aren't available. They suck at the number of accessories offered and making them available in a timely manner. Their products are generally well put together using premium components.
HTC - Has really been trying to get updates out more quickly and with better quality. The One X has been updated to three new Android versions and has gotten three new versions of Sense since March. In spite of that it still takes too long to get updates out and they've had some pretty bad s/w that's been deployed without being thoroughly tested. Their warranty service is hit or miss depending on region. The U.S. isn't too bad and they do seem to try to get things right. They have a really nice variety of accessories; good luck trying to find them in stock anywhere. Their products are made from premium components but they've had a lot of QC issues with their latest devices. Good examples are extremely well made. They don't provide warranty support for devices that have had their bootloaders unlocked.
LG - Their support in the U.S. is atrocious and the rest of the world is a mixed bag. An alarming number of their products over the past two years have had design and h/w issues. Examples are overheating, spontaneous rebooting, boot loops, and sporadic wireless performance. Both the new Optimus G and N4 have thermal throttling issues so it doesn't seem like much has changed. The HTC Droid DNA has the same chip set and isn't experiencing similar issues. They are absolutely atrocious at updates. They offer few accessories and what's offered is impossible to find. Their devices are built well but it doesn't matter if they have fatal design flaws. The customer has to pay to ship a device to LG for repair.
Asus - They put more effort in to serving their existing customers than any other Android manufacturer. They are quick to update their devices, have representatives commenting on XDA, and try to address issues they're made aware of. Their warranty service is atrocious with frequent claims of "customer induced damage" for known issues. It can take weeks to get a device repaired and it's difficult to get an accurate status. Customers pay shipping to get the device to Asus. Their products are made from inferior and in some cases outdated components. They also have an abnormally high number of QC issues. The latter two elements along with crappy repair service sort of negate their customer service efforts. They offer a few basic accessories that seem to be generally more available compared to other manufacturers. When they introduce a new device its a cluster trying to find it and, because they're offered in multiple colors, finding the matching keyboard. They don't provide warranty support for devices that have had their bootloaders unlocked.
Sony - There are tied with LG for being worst at keeping their devices updated. I'm not familiar with their mobile device service but I've used them for PC service and they've been very responsive. Their products are generally well made but always seem to be a cycle behind everyone else design, feature and s/w wise. They tend to do well with offering accessories and making them readily available but they are very expensive.
Motorola - Their support of existing customers is tragic compared to the Asians. Even after Google acquired them they announced that late-2011 high-end devices that they promised upgrades to ICS for wouldn't be receiving them. They offered affected customers $100 off a future Motorola phone instead. They are also worse than the Asians at updates they do roll out. Their warranty and repair service is generally good. Their products are well made but MotoBlur is considered the worst of the overlays. It has been toned down on newer phones but is still far less complete than Sense or TW. They offer quite a few accessories but they are quite expensive. They are fairly easy to find. But in comparing Motorola to the Asians their complete lack of regard for existing customers makes them the worst of a bad lot. They don't provide warranty support for devices that have had their bootloaders unlocked.
So, at the end of the day, there aren't really any stand-out winners. Toshiba, Acer, and Lenovo are bit players based on the low volume of devices they sell so I haven't included them. From general observation they aren't typically known to be any better or worse than the companies I've described. So balancing all four criteria Samsung and HTC, IMHO, are the best of a bad lot (at least in the Android world). Since Samsung seems to be taking over the Android world any way we might not have to worry about comparisons for very much longer.
Thoughts? Personal experiences?
BarryH_GEG said:
The h/w business is almost entirely Asian with the exception of Apple, Nokia, and Motorola. We've discussed update priorities, accessory availability, and general attention to existing customer's needs. Only Motorola sells Android devices so it's them vs. the Asians if you want to draw a comparison. I've owned devices from Motorola and most of the Asian manufacturers. Here's my conclusion: they all suck in the three categories we're discussing. Let's add a fourth category; product quality. Here's my quick assessment:
...
So, at the end of the day, there aren't really any stand-out winners. Toshiba, Acer, and Lenovo are bit players based on the low volume of devices they sell so I haven't included them. From general observation they aren't typically known to be any better or worse than the companies I've described. So balancing all four criteria Samsung and HTC, IMHO, are the best of a bad lot (at least in the Android world). Since Samsung seems to be taking over the Android world any way we might not have to worry about comparisons for very much longer.
Thoughts? Personal experiences?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like Samsung should hire Asus to support their products and Asus should get Samsung build their products.
Vincent9756 said:
Sounds like Samsung should hire Asus to support their products and Asus should get Samsung build their products.
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Here's the difference between Asus and Samsung/HTC when it comes to updates. Asus is the hands-down winner for getting updates out the door the fastest. But in doing so, it takes at least three subsequent updates to make the initial update complete. Samsung and HTC are painfully slow but (usually) the updates they get out are pretty solid. By that time, because Asus had to update the update multiple times, they arrive at the same place at the same time. Kind of a "tortoise vs. the hare" thing.
BarryH_GEG said:
The h/w business is almost entirely Asian with the exception of Apple, Nokia, and Motorola. We've discussed update priorities, accessory availability, and general attention to existing customer's needs. Only Motorola sells Android devices so it's them vs. the Asians if you want to draw a comparison. I've owned devices from Motorola and most of the Asian manufacturers. Here's my conclusion: they all suck in the three categories we're discussing. Let's add a fourth category; product quality. Here's my quick assessment:
...
So, at the end of the day, there aren't really any stand-out winners. Toshiba, Acer, and Lenovo are bit players based on the low volume of devices they sell so I haven't included them. From general observation they aren't typically known to be any better or worse than the companies I've described. So balancing all four criteria Samsung and HTC, IMHO, are the best of a bad lot (at least in the Android world). Since Samsung seems to be taking over the Android world any way we might not have to worry about comparisons for very much longer.
Thoughts? Personal experiences?
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Click to collapse
I agree. I wasn't actually making a 'Western vs Asian' comparison - although rereading what I wrote, it does come across that way. Unfortunately, Apple is kind of the bar for support, quality and attention to detail, even with their recent decline in all three areas.
But my experiences with HP, for example - with their Slate 500 was odd - they had delivery problems, but they really went the extra mile to make up for it. In fact, in my own case, they ended up giving me almost a 30% discount for being late. I didn't even ask for it. They did screw up by choosing n-Trig for the digitiser - but at the time, it seemed a logical choice.
I only have one major experience with Dell - I bought an Axion Windows Mobile PDA that failed. They sent me a box in which to return it at no cost... and a new unit along with the box - also at no cost.
Of course, I have a Transformer Prime - and it's such a mixed bag of hurt and happy. As you note - the device feels right - and they got a lot right about it. It has the best USB driver support of any tablet out there. It provides enough USB power to run a hard drive. The dock is brilliant. And then they mess up something as basic as the GPS, WiFi and Bluetooth. And I think most of us could have dealt with that - if Asus hadn't utterly botched their response to the problem by essentially admitting the problem, then failing to fix it, then claiming the GPS wasn't meant for serious use (commerical GPS? What?) then trying to erase history by removing the feature from the box, then sending everyone a free GPS dongle that was just horribly thought out... and didn't fix the WiFi or BT issues. To add insult to injury - they announce a replacement pair of Transformers with the problem fixed... just two weeks after finally shipping the Prime - which was late. But the Infinity was supposed to be $100 more (which kind of took some of the pain away) - only to finally ship at the exact same price as the Prime.
Oh.. and then just after getting the dongle, the Prime's back camera died and that took a month to get repaired...
That's a lot of bad PR and bad customer support in one ball of hurt.
I bought an HTC Surround - the design made it impossible to remove the back without holding the screen which is on a slider. I sent it back after just two months of ownership because after upgrading to WP7.5 the screen started to act oddly.They claimed that the strain on the screen damaged it and refused to repair or replace it under warranty - demanding $250.
Which brings us back to Apple for a moment - I bought an iPhone 3G and two weeks afters the warranty expired, the 3G radio fried. When I took it back, they refused service - but offered refurb replacement.. also for $250. I asked if I could pay extra and upgrade to the 3Gs, but they refused claiming that their agreement with the cellco prohibited that. You'll pardon me when I get annoyed at people who go on about how great Apple's customer support is and how 'they'll replace or repair broken devices, even if they're a little over warranty...' Riiiight.
So, yes, as much as I hate to say it - at the moment, Samsung is the least evil current choice....
But it's definitely not what I would call a great choice...
TheWerewolf said:
Apple is kind of the bar for support, quality and attention to detail, even with their recent decline in all three areas.
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I totally agree. Part of it is because Apple's a marketing culture. They have always believed that pulling customers in with an excellent experience (h/w, s/w, content, support) and not relegating the control of the experience to others would lead them to loyalty, advocacy, scale, and profit. Looking at their market cap you can't argue with their approach. But their stock's dropped 20% since September while Samsung's been selling record numbers of devices and reeling in record profits. Samsung is no Apple and I don't think they'd ever be able to adapt that culture. But Apple's begun to bore people by sticking to their formula while everyone else is offering bolder more individualized experiences. The aging of Apple's demographic and adoption of Android by younger market segments doesn't bode well for Apple's future. At some point they are going to have to do something interesting and it isn't making the iPhone's display taller. Remember their famous "1984" commercial and the "think different" campaign? They've become what they used to parody.
I'm from Australia and thought much the same particularly with accessory availability. Then I moved to kenya of all places. Here Samsung is the undisputed champion. Nobody has an Iphone. Everyone has Samsung. Accessories are everywhere. All the major Supermarkets have a phone shop inside them and nearly all carry accessories en masse.
It makes an enormous difference to the functionality and usefulness of the product when you can do things like plug a flash drive into it or plug it into your TV. There are also many dedicated Samsung shops around the place. Although for some reason they seem to get the products later than the other retailers.
Samsung can definitely get it right in certain regions. I'm not sure why it struggles in others
Sent from my GT-N8000 using xda app-developers app
Simple, its what the public wants... Or thinks it wants...
Samsung have started to push out adverts here in Oz, especially S3 and SGNote 10.1, now when you rarely ever used to see their phones advertised. Apple was everywhere...
The shops are simply responding to what the customers want... Everyone was buying apple products, so naturally you stock Apple accessories with a few other brand accessories too. But if the lions share of customers want Apple products, why would you stock with only a few Apple accessories and have a whole heap of stuff you can't sell because the perceived market isn't there? That would be, from a sellers point of view, madness...
Until public opinion and buying habits shift noticeably then we are stuck with shops full of Crapple merchandise. When Android becomes a major seller, this is where standardisation is good, then we'll see the stock move to that area instead as profit drops for Apple stock... Unfortunately there's still a perception among retailers that Apple is an easy sell... That and the fact that there are a million different types of android tablet and phones out in the world, and there's only so many things they are prepared to stock while generally all Apple stuff fit or was useable by all apple customers... Until Iphone 5 that is...
The issue as I have always understood it has many sides. First Apple builds their OS for their devices, no one else gets it no other hardware can run it so they only have to optimize and remove features based on the generation of the device (3GS, 4, 4S, etc) and what will and won't work.
Now for Android OEM's they have a couple of challenges. First Google makes the OS and unless you are chosen for a Nexus launch you won't get the new OS in its finished state until after that (don't recall when JB 4.1.1 came out) so they have to wait.
Then the OEM's have to decide which devices can and cannot run the software based on the crippled (carrier specified hardware in the USA) so devices that are less than a year old get screwed over (HTC 2012 and 2011). Then they have to make sure their drivers work since not ever one of their phones (and tablets) uses the same processor or family of processors so we have Texas Instruments, Qualcomm, Samsung, Intel, etc. Then the priority is always given to the latest hardware going out the door since you want your newest hardware to (hopefully) be running the most current OS you had in the pipeline, or in our case JB 4.1.1. Then they start to update for devices they can support.
Now what I see as a huge issue and is the heart of fragmentation is Google's failure to set standards and timelines from both the OEM's and Carriers (USA are the offenders here) to deliver the OS updates. Google should be collaborating with the OEM's to enforce software rollouts. They could also put forth some type of awareness campaign to insure users are in the know and can have an expectation from their carrier and OEM that they will get that update. Oh wait that was the Android Alliance crap announced last year that did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
For me I would be fine with my GN 10.1 and soon GN 2 running some iteration of JellyBean hopefully 4.2 so it has the enhanced security features etc.
BarryH_GEG said:
I totally agree. Part of it is because Apple's a marketing culture. They have always believed that pulling customers in with an excellent experience (h/w, s/w, content, support) and not relegating the control of the experience to others would lead them to loyalty, advocacy, scale, and profit. Looking at their market cap you can't argue with their approach. But their stock's dropped 20% since September while Samsung's been selling record numbers of devices and reeling in record profits. Samsung is no Apple and I don't think they'd ever be able to adapt that culture. But Apple's begun to bore people by sticking to their formula while everyone else is offering bolder more individualized experiences. The aging of Apple's demographic and adoption of Android by younger market segments doesn't bode well for Apple's future. At some point they are going to have to do something interesting and it isn't making the iPhone's display taller. Remember their famous "1984" commercial and the "think different" campaign? They've become what they used to parody.
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Click to collapse
Just gotta say: iCustomers are snobby, horribly wretched, self-absorbed "high designer" wanna-be's. Apple's hw is far from impeccable, the sw is strangling. They're good at glamour (making something appear far better than it actually is). Samsung is unfortunately trying to cut into that crowd, and I think they'd do better to provide a strong counter position: a tablet that lasts for years instead of 6 months. A phone that makes it to the next upgrade cycle (like the gNex).
Early 20th century design principles (built to last decades-- ie heirloom quality) should be a global standard....yes I know I'm pipe dreaming here....
Apple IMO has made it difficult for Samsung to really get behind its own products in the US, but it's jot just apple, mobile device carriers have lobbied our government, fcc, and individual manufacturers to NOT release things like the p6800 or the n8000 because carriers want you to buy a phone AND a tablet with a data plan, not just a tabletnwith telephony hardware... so f***ing sick of our markets being manipulated by the big players, people don't even know that there ARE tablets available with telephony hw... blah...
Sent from my GT-N8013 using XDA Premium HD app
Unless they somehow release an XZ on steroids to the US...
But with next to no marketing, nor word about the US market, I think Sony has missed their chance at grabbing the attention of its US consumers w/ their flagship before Samsung and HTC comes in. Sure, people like you and I who follow this sort of stuff know to expect the XZ, but that's hardly a fraction of US smartphone consumers.
When the XZ does (or doesn't) get released to the US, I think consumers will be confused. Sony will be releasing their flagship device partly on last generation's hardware. And that is not going to sit well with the average consumer, where the average consumer will understand waterproof and glance at the spec sheet.
I know the US doesn't represent the world, but without doubt they are one of the biggest markets, and surely Sony has done themselves in with the XZ.
bollywood69 said:
Unless they somehow release an XZ on steroids to the US...
But with next to no marketing, nor word about the US market, I think Sony has missed their chance at grabbing the attention of its US consumers w/ their flagship before Samsung and HTC comes in. Sure, people like you and I who follow this sort of stuff know to expect the XZ, but that's hardly a fraction of US smartphone consumers.
When the XZ does (or doesn't) get released to the US, I think consumers will be confused. Sony will be releasing their flagship device partly on last generation's hardware. And that is not going to sit well with the average consumer, where the average consumer will understand waterproof and glance at the spec sheet.
I know the US doesn't represent the world, but without doubt they are one of the biggest markets, and surely Sony has done themselves in with the XZ.
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Yup you're right, it's weird, why wouldn't they release it in the states? Releasing it with upgraded specs would also be a bad thing, what would the rest of the world think then?
Maybe the phone didn't pass FCC regulations or something, I've got no clue (Nor really care since I'm not in the states.)
My The phone has a FCC ID number. Do doesn't it mean they have passed?
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium
Interestingly, there is an NDTV article just released that reports 4.6 million potential XZ sales. So maybe I'm wrong and they do know what they're doing =D
Although, it remains to be seen how it will fair against the One and GS4 which will hit the world market soon.
I just got back from Las Vegas and a TON of people were asking me what phone I had. So if they don't release it in the states they're idiots
I did shock quite a few by dropping it in the pool at the MMS2013 ending party
"At the farmers market with my so-called girlfriend.
She hands me her cell phone. Says it's my dad.
Man, this ain't my dad - this is a cell phone!
I threw it on the ground!"
mgroover said:
I just got back from Las Vegas and a TON of people were asking me what phone I had. So if they don't release it in the states they're idiots
I did shock quite a few by dropping it in the pool at the MMS2013 ending party
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so cool
The problem with the US market is that the carriers mess with the devices. In a normal market, Sony can take the Xperia Z and release it through independent retailers and also let carriers sell it without altering the device (other than very light branding in some cases).
To me, it is fully understandable that Sony don't want to mess with one Xperia ZV for Verizon, an Xperia ZS for Sprint and finally Xperia ZL for AT&T and T-Mobile. It means three different versions of what is supposedly to be the same product.
Each version requires extra testing, FCC certification and is crippled by the carriers - each update has to go through them and people would complain about "Sony is not updating" et al.
It makes more sense to sell the Xperia Z in developed markets, i.e. markets where a C6602 or C6602 is ALWAYS the same. Europe is one example and with the big middle class in India, that is another example of a better market from their perspective.
It makes more sense for Sony to bring the Xperia to the US through themselves, in unlocked editions and then sell them together with prepaid cards and perhaps offer some kind of installment plan for paying off the device. Making THREE different versions of the device just in order to get it on US carriers is just not worth it.
Educated consumers in the US knows better than signing away $2699 ($299 + $100 x 24) - they buy their Xperia directly from Sony and pays $30-50 per month. Sony should aim for those consumers and profile themselves as a highend brand rather than going for those low class, ugly and crippled carrier branded devices with tons of bloatware that Joe Public craves for.
A Sony should be a pure Sony. Not a Sony AT&T, Sony Sprint, Sony Verizon or Sony T-Mobile. The latter could be an option for selling the devices provided that they can be unbranded and unlocked, without any T-Mobile logotype or bloatware in place.
The T-Mobile UnCarrier move would be a perfect fit for Sony but only if they can sell unmolested products. The other three carriers is not a good option because of the terrible mess they offer with branding etc.
The Sony brand should be kept clean. A Sony should always be a Sony, a pure experience like the Nexus.
The main problem is that while Sony does have devices with proper band support for AT&T and T-Mobile, they aren't selling them.
Seriously, I can't figure out why the C6602 is not available for purchase in this country. Releasing just the ZL is a huge mistake IMO - the Z has its water/dustproofing as a MASSIVE differentiator. The ZL is really "just another 5" 1080p phone" to most people. Yes, it has more polished software than any other device on the market - but consumers are so used to carrier mangling they won't see that.
Sony probably doesn't want Xperia Z with Verizon logo printed on the most awkward place possible... but seriously, blame your carriers - if your market needs to modify each and every device and require manufacturers to prepare a special edition just for you with ridiculous requirements as to what has to be modified - it'll be like that all the time. They even seem to be reluctant to allow T-Mobile version of Xperia Z, and I can't blame them for that. It's meant to be "the best of Sony", not the best of AT&T Sony, or Sprint Sony.
Akiainavas said:
Sony probably doesn't want Xperia Z with Verizon logo printed on the most awkward place possible... but seriously, blame your carriers - if your market needs to modify each and every device and require manufacturers to prepare a special edition just for you with ridiculous requirements as to what has to be modified - it'll be like that all the time. They even seem to be reluctant to allow T-Mobile version of Xperia Z, and I can't blame them for that. It's meant to be "the best of Sony", not the best of AT&T Sony, or Sprint Sony.
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Thing is, they aren't even offering the C6602 in unlocked form.
The Nexus 4 proves that you can sell in the US without carriers in the loop if you have pentaband HSPA+. The C6602 has pentaband HSPA+ - it'll work great on both T-Mobile and AT&T with ZERO changes. All they need to do is actually put it up for sale!
n4 king of sales numbers are not even worth the effort probably, z is in high demand and shortages in many countries right now, best to allocate all the stocks at hand to those markets that actually want it bad.
There are two retailers that carries the Xperia Z C6602: At GSM in Bowery Street and Mobile City Online in Walker Street.
I bought my C6602 at At GSM.
It would be nice to have it in the Sony Center too but even if they would sell it, I don't think there would be many retailers with it. Perhaps J&R. Otherwise, most of the mobile phone stores are carrier affiliated and therefore out of the question for anything unlocked and standardized.
I would like more manufacturers take a hard stance against the carriers in the US. Their modifications and branding dilutes the original brand of the device while most consumers blame the manufacturer rather than the carrier when there's no updates or delays.
Even if Sony should bring the C6602 in to the Sony Center, I stand behind their decision fully. Their brand represents quality and class and should provide a controlled experience - i.e. 100% Sony. Not 50% Sony and 50% [insert carrier of choice].
Another important thing is that beside modifications and branding, the marketing etc are put into the hands of the carriers. The manufacturer is pretty much out of the loop and that mean that the gains of getting a device out on a carrier could be a loss when everything comes around.
It is also worth to mention that the US market is such a terrible mess that a more standardized market like Europa or India etc simply makes more sense since they can receive a standard model (C6602 or C6603) that doesn't require extra testing etc.
You can supply the whole EU with C6603 while the US market would require a minimum of 3 different models (if AT&T and T-Mobile gets the same version) - if it would go to local carriers like US Cellulars it results in even more models. If the device sells 6 million divided between those different versions, then the problem is very obvious.
If we are kind and say that total sales is 6 million divided on AT&T 2 M, Verizon 2 M and 1 M each for Sprint and T-Mobile, the question is if it is worth the trouble. Especially since all those devices are different models even if it is supposedly the "same product" in the sales literature.
Personally, I would not release a product under those circumstances when I can go to the EU market and sell it in all countries with very slight alterations (translating some manuals and warranty papers).
It is also worth to mention that the risk for badwill is high if the carriers decides to withdraw further update support even if the manufacturer provides new updates. Since people will complain about Sony if a Verizon Xperia ZV doesn't receive updates, the problem is obvious.
I've never understood why Sprint/AT&T feel the need to plaster their crap over devices... NO ONE wants it.
At least here in the UK it's a bit more toned down.
They are, newegg and amazon have them on sale already. And it's the 6602 with sony us warranty.
Entropy512 said:
Thing is, they aren't even offering the C6602 in unlocked form.
The Nexus 4 proves that you can sell in the US without carriers in the loop if you have pentaband HSPA+. The C6602 has pentaband HSPA+ - it'll work great on both T-Mobile and AT&T with ZERO changes. All they need to do is actually put it up for sale!
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Click to collapse
I just bought a ZL from newegg today, C6506. But they also had the Z in C6602 form (the LTE model is "coming soon").
OMG I BOUGHT MINE ON EBAY FROM HK FOR 591 i hope its unlock!!!!
None of these responses really make any sense...
Sony is operating their mobile division at a loss. They want to compete with the big 2 (Samsung and Apple) in releasing a product, the XZ, that is in line w/ the Galaxy S line and iPhone. But because it is too difficult, they will sacrifice one of the largest target markets in the world?
Again, I'm not arguing that the US is the center of the world, but we remain a HUGE share of consumers for high end smartphones. And it isn't just the US, I just happened to choose it as one example. Quite frankly, what makes the Galaxy S line and iPhone such a success is that it can reach so many markets. And I think HTC realizes this, albeit quite late in the race. HTC finally released a 'world' phone in that its One reaches the masses in one config or another. No longer are they marketing the Droid, One X, DNA, etc. as their marquee phones.
This seems to be a misstep of Sony's. And with all the positive reviews coming in for the One and GS4, it looks like it's time to write off the XZ.
I wouldn't write off the Z so quickly. Other than the slightly slower processor, everything else is still more or less on par, some things slightly more so (waterproofing was what sold it for me, excellent developer support is another. Really, which other manufacturer makes AOSP builds for their phones?)
US carriers are mess with the devices, which are not unlockable in india..
http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/6/8351785/sony-xperia-z3-t-mobile-discontinued
Uh oh, Sony is now going to have a much harder time in the US unless it decides to do the Z4 on all carriers when it releases. I have the Verizon variant and I'm loving it but I'm shocked T-Mobile quickly decides to discontinue the Z3. I hope Verizon doesn't do the same although they're selling the Z3v for 99 cents on contract.
What do you guys think? Is there still hope the Z4 will invade the US market?
Does this mean no lollipop for D6616?
To be honest, no I don't think the Z4 will sell well in the US either even though it will probably be a great device. Even when I bought the Z3 I did not think it would really sell. It's not that it's a bad device, it's just that more people associate Android phones with HTC/Samsung/LG. Sony has not done much advertising and so not many people even know it exists. Everything I just said pertains more to the US than other countries, where Sony has a bigger footprint.
Just look at the HTC Butterfly how many people bought it? Even though it was higher end device than the M7 and also had a better camera. I loved it but it wasn't really advertised as much as the M7.
honestly, i'm not surprised. you can gauge how well a product is doing based on how many other companies want to piggyback on its success. When talking about phones, this usually means accessories, and if you compare it to the other smartphones on the market of the same price range, the adoption of the Z3 in the States was abysmal. You can't even go out a buy a nice case for it, even at T-Mo stores..
I agree with wprpalmeida and abhinav.tella. The whole branding for Sony smartphone is lacking in the US to the fullest. You will hear a lot about the new Samsung Galaxy, iPhone, HTC, etc. in the commercials. Everyone is familiar with these brands. I had Samsung Galaxy S5 or iPhone 6 users compliment on my Z3, but had no idea it was a Sony phone. Let me just say that if Samsung or Apple had done the branding and advertisement for Sony, Sony would be in way better shape.
Not only in US... Situation EU countries is similar.
I'm trying to find case for Z3 and there's nothing in Tmobile or other stores...
When I remember Z, Z1.... even Z2, stores were full of gadgets, cases and screen protectors.
You could buy many things on EBay and on stores but Z3 is very poor with accessories for this device...
Sony is losing this battle.... Unfortunately.
I really like Xperia devices but changes on Z3 and Z4 just aren't good enough.
New SoC, cool...but where's other things?
They are just moving speakers and hardware buttons around device...
I had Z1, Z2 and Z3 and I always had to look closely to make sure I took device I want...
Now I have only Z1 and Z3, I bought Note4 and it's exciting new thing for me...
It's not better then Z3, it's same as Z3 but it's something new for me...
But lets not spit only on Sony, all manufacturers are doing the same thing...
I guess we reached the point where we don't need more cpu power or memory..
We need better OS and battery...
Better battery we probably won't see but we could get faster updates and better firmware / software...
If Apple has hardware from Note4 or Z3 powered by iOS they would show what we actually have under the hood...
It's ridiculous to have more power in phones then in notebooks and see that notebooks are faster then phones.
And still they are on Windows?! [emoji14]
I'm thinking... We are probably close to see Android we'll have to pay and devices that are same for years...
Something just have to change..
"Batteries are getting worse" (ridiculously strong and fast SoC are killing them), screens are going into XXXXHD resolutions...
We need better OS, at least better optimised OS...not more power in cpu and gpu... God...I need smartphone, not GameBoy..
Manufacturers have to realised that or Sony won't be the only one who got shoe in the ass...
If that was reason (slow updates and same devices for a years) for Tmobile to cans Sony and their Z1 copies then I salute to Tmobile..
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no good for me now buy sony z3
Sent from my SGH-T999 using XDA Free mobile app
Oh for MOD EDIT Rule 2 @gregbradley sake! Now with this news how in the hell are we gonna get the D6616 lollipop update now? At first I thought the Sony Xperia Z3 was a great phone and now with all this delays, discontinuations, no support for root, I'm never gonna buy a Sony phone again. The only reason why I bought this phone was because it had 3GB RAM and SD card and 20MP camera.
If I were to switch to another brand, every other one is crap too. HTC already failed to make a great camera on its M9. Samsung Edge and S6 have no support for SD card and is a copy of iPhone 6. Motorola doesn't make phones with the latest specs and an SD card. Sony is a complete joke, so who's left? The only one to make me happy is LG but that 5.5 inch is just overkill but its the only phone that has everything I want. There's no phone thats perfect for my needs.
Very sad, but can't really blame T-Mobile. 1st couple of batches on TMO were defective (spontaneous back glass cracks, fitment issues, etc.), then Sony themselves offer zero advertisement to move units. Word of mouth only goes so far. Every person I have shown this phone to (and its capabilities) is very impressed, but they always say "Xperia what?" They have already annouced support for 5.0 on TMO, so I'd be really suprised if they back out now.
hanime said:
Let me just say that if Samsung or Apple had done the branding and advertisement for Sony, Sony would be in way better shape.
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Samsung and Apple spend obscene amounts of money in their marketing campaigns. Even when the Z series could be a better product by objective standards, Sony just doesn't have the muscle power (the money) to let people know. Also Not sure how is elsewhere, but getting in bed with the carriers is crucial to sell your phone in the USA, only Apple is able to escape this fate.
abhinav.tella said:
To be honest, no I don't think the Z4 will sell well in the US either even though it will probably be a great device. Even when I bought the Z3 I did not think it would really sell. It's not that it's a bad device, it's just that more people associate Android phones with HTC/Samsung/LG. Sony has not done much advertising and so not many people even know it exists. Everything I just said pertains more to the US than other countries, where Sony has a bigger footprint.
Just look at the HTC Butterfly how many people bought it? Even though it was higher end device than the M7 and also had a better camera. I loved it but it wasn't really advertised as much as the M7.
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Americans are brainwashed by advertising, and so we know only what we have been programmed to believe.
danishdish said:
Americans are brainwashed by advertising, and so we know only what we have been programmed to believe.
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Brainwashed or not, if you want to sell a product in large quantities you have to cut through the noise. As mentioned, there is no incentive for sales staff to sell a product with little consumer knowledge when they have a more widely known alternative available. I believe that informed consumers will always be relative minority.
Yes, you are correct, which leads me to my other criticism of American retail. Many large retail chains employ people at low wages and provide very little training on their products. You couple an uneducated store clerk and uneducated consumer and you get a marriage of ignorance and misunderstanding of the product that the customer is purchasing. T-mobile, in my view, is selling the data plan, over the phone. That's their produc: the data plan. They couldn't care as much about the hardware. The feign ignorance so that you believe you need a new phone. Sheisters!
A said:
Brainwashed or not, if you want to sell a product in large quantities you have to cut through the noise. As mentioned, there is no incentive for sales staff to sell a product with little consumer knowledge when they have a more widely known alternative available. I believe that informed consumers will always be relative minority.
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Well to be fair, at least the store near me where I went for 3 exchanges (Z3) told me there were many others coming in for replacements as well due to defects cosmetic (gaps) or camera, apparently they received a bad batch/es... so low sales and high return rates generally call for a phase out or TMO will also be at the receiving end.
abhinav.tella said:
Well to be fair, at least the store near me where I went for 3 exchanges (Z3) told me there were many others coming in for replacements as well due to defects cosmetic (gaps) or camera, apparently they received a bad batch/es... so low sales and high return rates generally call for a phase out or TMO will also be at the receiving end.
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The store I went to touted the Z3. I wound up getting it by calling t-mobile and throwing the "I've been with you guys for thirteen years" flag, and they took $100 off. My Z3 hasn't given me any troubles... Yet. We'll see.
Did you buy it at launch? Some of the stores apparently got bad batches at launch, they stripped 10+ boxes in my 3 visits to TMO store, my current one is good though. Then again apparently even the iPhone 6 had many warranty returns at TMO lol, they told me that it would take time to process refund from my first Z3 exchange, because they were backlogged with returned iPhone 6s lol.
No root (and locked bootloader) killed the phone.
The latest update makes Galaxy-compatible headset works 100% with volume +-.
Frankly, I want to stay away from Samsh_t as far as possible, and though I am happy with LG G3, lacking band 12 may make me move on. No root makes me hesitant to get this phone because I need root to fix write to SD problem.
abhinav.tella said:
Did you buy it at launch? Some of the stores apparently got bad batches at launch, they stripped 10+ boxes in my 3 visits to TMO store, my current one is good though. Then again apparently even the iPhone 6 had many warranty returns at TMO lol, they told me that it would take time to process refund from my first Z3 exchange, because they were backlogged with returned iPhone 6s lol.
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What was bad about them? I'm curious.
Nathan-NL said:
What was bad about them? I'm curious.
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Well the first two had big gaps between screen and frame with glue missing / bits of glue visible (i think) and massive light bleed from there, one had a pink camera (mild), the 4th one is perfect (current one).
The electronic buying habit of the american public blows me away. Don't people research anything anymore? It's like we've become incapable of doing anything outside of the norm. Apple is making a killing selling a technologically inferior product because it's the cool thing to own now. It makes me feel like my fellow countrymen are just plain stupid most of the time. Plus you would think Apple invented big screens and NFC payments. Ugh....
And, most think Samsung is the only non Apple alternative.
---------- Post added at 08:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 PM ----------
danishdish said:
Americans are brainwashed by advertising, and so we know only what we have been programmed to believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
danishdish said:
Yes, you are correct, which leads me to my other criticism of American retail. Many large retail chains employ people at low wages and provide very little training on their products. You couple an uneducated store clerk and uneducated consumer and you get a marriage of ignorance and misunderstanding of the product that the customer is purchasing. T-mobile, in my view, is selling the data plan, over the phone. That's their produc: the data plan. They couldn't care as much about the hardware. The feign ignorance so that you believe you need a new phone. Sheisters!
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Click to collapse
It's borderline anti trust going on at the mobile phone companies. I'd like to see them completely removed from the phone buying experience. They have way too much influence. Seems we did this once in the old days when you had to buy your land line phone from ATT. You should be able to buy an American phone that covers all bands and then choose your carrier.