Related
Ok So whats this new level of idiocy, are we now trully saying that one can not ask a question that involkes opinions and subjective answers, the threads could contain factual information and objective opinions but i guess we shall never know beacuse they get closed...
I am actually supprised its got this low, if you think about it almost any question answered will be subjected to an opinional bias WE ARE HUMANS
So the two "Which ROM?" questions threads get closed i think we are all big enough to realise that what one person feels is good may not be to another but we all read reviews in mags, we all read reviews on the internet and they suffer the same problems with bias you cant remove that fact, you read the responces and judge for your self, blimey what is going on here!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=489979&page=2
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=490053
There are a ton of new ROMs out there now and it is impossible to get a "feel" of the way they perform unless you spend all of your time flashing ROMs. Constructive discussion of ROMs and their strong and weak points shouldn't be cause for public shame.
[URL=http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=canofwormsy.jpg]
[/URL]
or...
A: "Dutty's ROMs are the best!"
B: "F*** off, David's the best."
C: "You two know f*** all about ROMs; Neo's the best!"
--ad infinitum
Matterhorn said:
There are a ton of new ROMs out there now and it is impossible to get a "feel" of the way they perform unless you spend all of your time flashing ROMs. Constructive discussion of ROMs and their strong and weak points shouldn't be cause for public shame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, not everyone has the time, patience, ability, confidence to be flashing rom after rom, especially someone new to flashing. And for any user coming to these forums there is a bewildering amount of different roms and information. No one is asking for a be all and end all answer, but to get some opinions for a starting point can be very useful and inspire a bit of confidence to actually get going.
As long as constructive opinions are given, I personally don't see anything wrong in this. An answer as to why someone uses a rom for a particular reason may be the exact criteria that another person is looking for and might save that person a LOT of time and effort trying many roms first just to end up at that same rom.
The threads dazza mentioned I thought were being dealt with very constructively with some good advice in there. No one wants any flame war or anyone just being competitive with their chosen rom but please lets have some perspective, and credit most people with some intelligence and let some constructive discussion be allowed.
TraumaX said:
As long as constructive opinions are given, I personally don't see anything wrong in this. An answer as to why someone uses a rom for a particular reason may be the exact criteria that another person is looking for and might save that person a LOT of time and effort trying many roms first just to end up at that same rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree. What harm can come from contructive opinions. This may save a person numerous flashes and time. Where is the harm in that?
It saved me time when I first joined and flashed my first ROM!!
Indeed, ill not flash a ROM unless ive had a good read about others views, its my choice to listen to them or not, theres just simply too many ROMS and versions of ROMs to not allow this constructive debate.
Blackstone users have not invented the habit to ask about which ROM is the best, which to use, etc.
Threads like these get closed because very simple reasons: the discussions in the respective threads are based solely on subjective opinions and experiences.
Every ROM has description in the ROM thread and plenty of feedback inside. What might suit me would most probably not suit you. It all comes down to users' needs and what and how they use their devices. ROM expectations are based on these. Thus, asking questions about ROMs would normally generate answer pointing in a direction other users might find wrong.
All ROMs are public, with their description and feedback inside. Nobody stops users from testing and trying ROMs, according to their tasted and expectations.
I was the one closing those threads and will continue closing similar threads.
In case you have objections, complain to site Admin regarding this issue and do not throw your anger at the XDA community which supports us all.
Moving this thread to General as it has nothing to do with ROM developent!
tnyynt said:
In case you have objections, complain to site Admin regarding this issue and do not throw your anger at the XDA community which supports us all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With respect, I don't see any anger here towards XDA, just opinions again. I don't think anyone is suggesting people shouldn't read and do some research, of course they should, but there are a lot of roms, some with hundreds of pages of feedback, and it can be pretty daunting. To be sure, there is a lot of help within each of threads for the individual roms but to get some perspective and comparison of them from those who have already tried many of them with some (subjective) opinions can be extremely helpful in my view.
With respect, its not feasable to test every single ROM to get a feel for them all before maknig a choice, you dont buy a car by trying out every single car on the road, you read reviews which are ALL subjective and opinionated and then rate those experiences to your needs, that limits your choices which then allows you to try it out,
everyone knows that an opinion is just that, its a user opinion, its a view of that individual. To stop all subjective / opinionated remarks would effectively shut down the website.
For instance a thread on the Touch HDs camera speed would be factual in the sence that everyone knows its crap with moving pictures, but the thread would always be subjective since other users will notice this more, you cant stop that trate in humans its in our nature, so long as the comments are not designed to personally attack anothers view the thread will live an die on its on accord with out the need to moderate them.
With regards to why i published this, it is in the communities intrest to know what they can and cant do, im not attacking you personally for closing them, just the "rules" behind the decision. but if we are not able to keep this thread civil and it gets closed then yes ill pass on my comments to the admin instead.
We are all (mostly) adults on here lets not bring the nanny state here as well.
I can add my 5 cents here.... this is a well known problem, in every forum.
You can open a thread asking "What ROM are you using and WHY?" and IMHO this could be interesting, but asking " ROM Ratings...Your Opinions" or worst " What ROM is the best for me?" are tricky questions, because RATING and OPINIONS doesn't fit well together in the first case and BEST FOR you? ...who knows is the first answer I have in mind
This doesn't seems to have high relevance but those threads could be, on the dark side, "Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs)", starting a flame war against or pro single chefs.
Are "dangerous" threads, a thread, may be with a poll, "What rom are you using and WHY" could be dangerous but interesting and will survive ONLY if users are responsible and avoid a flame war
Thanks, 5 cents donated
As tynnyt said "this is not a blackstone problem".
This issue was discussed to death here : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=466666
Thanks
Dave
i don't have time to test each rom and for each of them to test every aspects in order to have my own conclusion.
as many others from here, would very intersted in the answer wich rom is best, but i am old enough (you would be surprised) to know that there is no answer to that question. from different reasons, pointed enough around here
what i want to suggest is a different approach, ofcourse if mods and admins will find that useful
instead in statement like x rom is better than y rom, or z rom rules, maybe guys who use or test different roms can give a feedback to others, with little experience, time or dare, concerning few aspects of the rom
for instance:
user noris08 (me) uses frank's rom v.1.5.12345. i would qualify that like that:
- glamurous looking
- moderate usability
- great battery life (15 days stand by - wouldn't you like that?)
- not so good speed
- extremely good for memory management (75% free)
- fix following known issues:
1. fix stutters in audio playing
2. add hardware acceleration for coreplayer
3. 3G signal always on 5 bars
4. gps fix in 5 sec
4. so on
- noticed bugs:
1. alarm clock doesn't work in stand by
2. appoinments shown with 2 hours delay
3. so on
- i would recomend it for mutimedia users
- i would rate it 7/10
it is likely that will be only a few guys with big harts to post their impressions, but is more then nothing.
in this way maybe we will not hurt rom developers feelings by just comparing x rom with y rom. they will also have some feed back concerning their work, appart of "thanks and great job mate"
just a thought!
cheers to everybody!
I agree 100% with the above post.
That a somewhat more acceptable way of putting things. If you also agree on benchmarking the ROMs (procedure, software used, etc.) then every user can post results/bugs/appearance/etc. and you'd have a standardized way of centralizing information that would be based on facts.
we're all big and old enough to know the difference, i think its quite disrespectful to ban such questions for several reasons, but something that is quite relevent is language.
English isnt everyones native language, gramatically speaking it might read to us as "which is the best ROM ever" but that might not be what they ment.
but whatever, seems minds are made and common sence has taken another knock back at the expence of so called politcal correctness, in this case offending the egos of the cookers out strips the need for new inexperienced users wanting simple feedback from the community about something without having to drudge through 1000s of pages of posts and spending much of there free time trying out every last ROM out there.
Just seems crazy if you ask me.
tnyynt said:
That a somewhat more acceptable way of putting things. If you also agree on benchmarking the ROMs (procedure, software used, etc.) then every user can post results/bugs/appearance/etc. and you'd have a standardized way of centralizing information that would be based on facts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, this would be a good thread to start, i.e. benchmarking the ROMs procedure, software used, etc
tnyynt said:
That a somewhat more acceptable way of putting things. If you also agree on benchmarking the ROMs (procedure, software used, etc.) then every user can post results/bugs/appearance/etc. and you'd have a standardized way of centralizing information that would be based on facts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but using your logic, is it factual?
"- great battery life (15 days stand by - wouldn't you like that?)"
hell i have that ROM and its only lasting 10 days, instantly it becomes opinionated and subjectional
ok thats an extreme example, but even with a very well laid out feedback such as that people will disagree, you have to either ban them all or let adults use their own common sence.
I would like to say add guide lines for "which ROM" requests but another human trait is that they wont read them either.
dazza9075 said:
but using your logic, is it factual?
"- great battery life (15 days stand by - wouldn't you like that?)"
hell i have that ROM and its only lasting 10 days, instantly it becomes opinionated and subjectional
ok thats an extreme example, but even with a very well laid out feedback such as that people will disagree, you have to either ban them all or let adults use their own common sence.
I would like to say add guide lines for which ROM requests but another human trait is that they wont read them in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wasn't talking about battery (but even that could be reported as Radio + ROM + usage) but about using the same benchmark tool that needs to run in the same circumstances (i.e: after hard reset, manila disabled, etc.), about reporting memory usage after start up and after a day's usage, reporting bugs, etc.
I.E.:
SKTools benchmark:
X
X
X
X
Battery:
5 days with
A Radio
B Rom
X calls/day, X minutes of wifi, X no. of messages
Memory after startup:
X used
Storage memory after hard reset:
X used
Startup time:
X seconds from vibrate till stable today screen
etc.
id agree, a simple standardised benchmark runing a number of tests over a few hours would give a good account without the opinions, any suggestions?
dazza9075 said:
id agree, a simple standardised benchmark runing a number of tests over a few hours would give a good account without the opinions, any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You Guys find a way out and ellaborate the procedure that'd help you most. I gave you some hints. I'll support that, and I believe so will my fellow MOD colleagues.
Hello all. Firstly I would like to thank everyone for their great work on ROMs and applications for the HD2.
So, I have the HD2 obviously for about a month now, and I'm "stuck" with the default 1.42 ROM which actually makes the HD2 look like it has a 250MHz processor. It gets really slow from time to time.
I'm looking to flash it with a custom ROM, but I'm a bit puzzled, given the many ROMs that already exist.
I would like your opinion on this matter; Which ROM do you think is overall better, faster etc? I actually want less RAM footprint, I want Copilot and stuff like that removed, updated versions of the HTC apps etc.
I'm leaning towards the Artemis by Sternas, although I would appreciate some more experienced opinions.
Thanks in advance.
not again.....
makeveral said:
not again.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean "not again"? Many similar topics?
Yes, I've read them, and by starting this topic it's obvious that I need some more info from those who want to share their knowledge.
From those who don't want to share their knowledge I didn't ask anything.
I'm NOT asking which is the best ROM. I'm asking which ROM do the most of you have at this time installed and which OVERALL suits the needs of a larger audience and not just the "cooks" needs.
usaully this threads end closed
Hi !
Should be a good idea to have a post where users comment their experience with different roms. I dont mean rating but more like user experience in therms of usability.
We've had this a thousand times. No, there will be no thread that asks for users' opinions on ROMs. Try them yourself.
The last thread like this got closed only a few hours ago...
equalness said:
Hi !
Should be a good idea to have a post where users comment their experience with different roms. I dont mean rating but more like user experience in therms of usability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would disagree. Most users posting these kinds of questions are obviously too lazy to browse through each individual ROM's thread. I very much suspect that even if there was a central 'ROM experiences' thread they wouldn't bother to finish reading the first post.
Also, given how things have been around here recently, the thread would probably escalate into some sort of flamewar before it reaches page 2.
Anyway, if you're interested in a *very* rough indication of popularity:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=534&daysprune=-1&order=desc&sort=views
It's the ROM forum, sorted by views. Artemis thread does pop up somewhere at the top, so might be a good starting point for you, dimitris_s. Only a starting point, mind - only you will be able to tell which ROM is best for you, so try a few.
Okay firstly this is what jaxouk wrote:
I have read many posts where people are asking which is the best rom for my device (and have done myself) only to get abrupt replies with something like "how dare you ask this, chefs put a lot of effort into each rom and its down to personal preferance blah blah" ................"THREAD CLOSED"
Does every one think think this is the best way for xda to be run or is there other people that think this should be allowed to be debated? I know this is originally a developer forum, however I would hazard a guess that there is now more public users that devolpers.
The thing is developers develope roms and yes certainly they put a lot of time and effort into it and are respected rightly so for it. however can the end user really be expected not to be allowed to discuss these roms on the forum only to be told the above mensioned things. It happens time and again over and over. People like myself (the end user) do not have time to flash every rom to find the ones they like. (its a days setting up for myself after a flash) and if its crap (which there is no denying. some are) its a day wasted.
What I think the forum needs is a "ROM USER REVIEW" section where people like myself can go and rate a rom for other users referance.
Surely this is the key to better roms. If one developers rom is poor hes going to be able to see that its poor and will/might take the user rating / comments on board and the next time try harder.... ultimately producing a better rom.
Competition is what makes better products, If handset manufacturers took the same stance as xda we would be waiting for the realease of the o2 xda 2s later this year. and this is the same in all industries.
Okay so firstly Spot on and totally agree with you which as we all can see the majority of members using XDA agree with too.
Secondly this is what itje wrote who is a Moderator here:
I closed this thread, due to the same reason all the others that are similar all over xda are closed on sight.
These kind of threads usualy/always ends up in disputes and flamewars, there is always some hotheaded ppl who burst into flames when someone dont have the same view as they do.
So... sorry, yeah we close
So basically what you are saying is we as members are not allowed to treat XDA as a discussion forum as well as a Developer Forum? I thought the whole meaning to the word Forum, was for people to discuss there DIFFERENT opinions and have certain disputes with one another.
Sorry if people dont agree with this and please tell me why but I just think its silly that a mod would close a thread incase someone shouts and god forbid have an opinion.
Let me know what you guys think
It´s realy funny, when new user come to this forum and try to tell the old, experienced user, how the forum should go. I sometimes need to laugh about those statements but there are times i only want cry
I´m 100% agree with the Moderators (cause they are Moderators ). If you spend some more time around here, you will see how this forum works. Just use it, don´t complain.
I wasnt telling anyone how to run THIS forum I was basically explaining to everyone how a forum is normally run, if this is the way everyone likes it then fine but looking through 100's of posts and topics around here all I see is members and "noobs" getting put down from the likes of you.
crazy cat said:
It´s realy funny, when new user come to this forum and try to tell the old, experienced user, how the forum should go. I sometimes need to laugh about those statements but there are times i only want cry
I´m 100% agree with the Moderators (cause they are Moderators ). If you spend some more time around here, you will see how this forum works. Just use it, don´t complain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
me no understand
This has been explained again and again.
Personal and objective opinions are not allowed here. So if you can't make your own judgement on which ROM's to use you might want to stick to the stock ROM. Or The best thing to do is setup your own personal blog for these types of things. Then you can say what you want.
This will be another thread closed soon i feel.
It's impossible to determine what 'the best rom' would be...
Some ppl love a transparent clock, others hate it.
Same with the slider bar.
Same with themes.
Some ppl love a windows build with the start button on the top, some ppl love it with the button on the bottom.
Some ppl love to have a crapload of apps installed, some ppl hate it.
Some ppl love to have the newest unstable build, some ppl want the secure and stable one.
I might love a rom and you might hate it, the only objective criteria is how stable a rom is but even that can be debated. So you just have to try, see what works for you and go from there.
thread closed (i wish)
i have no problem myself with people arguing about something, even when things are heating. i am more then capable to defend myself
you know what they say - when the going gets tough, the though gets going
it is clear that general policy of this forum will not allow this kind of debate
what i am suggesting is something i saw on othe forums:
a special place with a big warnig ENTER ON YOUR OWN RISK, or something like that
this special place is organised as a battle place where every user can call out another user on a subject and then they have a public "battle". the other users are the public and in the end they choose which of the fighters is the winner
here the rules are somehow loose and mods only came in when things are realy degenerate - curses, personal insults, family offense, etc.
bottom line - i, personaly, would allow topics about best roms, best apps, best whatever, and when people cross the line i would suggest them to cool down on the battle field
this can be a stupid ideea, but maybe something like that will help users to get off the presure somewhere and then to disscuss cool and polite the subjects they are interested in
regards
noris08 said:
i have no problem myself with people arguing about something, even when things are heating. i am more then capable to defend myself
you know what they say - when the going gets tough, the though gets going
it is clear that general policy of this forum will not allow this kind of debate
what i am suggesting is something i saw on othe forums:
a special place with a big warnig ENTER ON YOUR OWN RISK, or something like that
this special place is organised as a battle place where every user can call out another user on a subject and then they have a public "battle". the other users are the public and in the end they choose which of the fighters is the winner
here the rules are somehow loose and mods only came in when things are realy degenerate - curses, personal insults, family offense, etc.
bottom line - i, personaly, would allow topics about best roms, best apps, best whatever, and when people cross the line i would suggest them to cool down on the battle field
this can be a stupid ideea, but maybe something like that will help users to get off the presure somewhere and then to disscuss cool and polite the subjects they are interested in
regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another problem with this kind of thing is you will have people come to this thread and ***** and complain about a particular ROM instead of the original ROM thread. The truth be known many of the problems users face are due to them not following instruction or due to some other incompatible software there are trying to use and then they blame their problems on the ROM creator. The down side to this is a thread like this will only open up negative criticism of a ROM and cause harm to the cook that maybe unjust. Not to mention that the problems need to be kept within the ROM threads in order to better improve the ROM's.
I understand what people want and this is why I made the statement to open your own blog or site to do these things and then link to here.
i have to agree. cooker cooks a rom and we rate it. if it was just "cook, post, upload, thread closed" in res of the world then everyone would buy apple, but cause its the information age we need to know what is what and where is where.
this should be even more seen here on "professional" forum like xda-developers.
i totaly agree with OP.
@bazgee: saying that 'noobs' shouldnt talk.. makes you so much more a 'noob'. your ass wasn't born smart and so wasn't OPs.
bobsbbq said:
Another problem with this kind of thing is you will have people come to this thread and ***** and complain about a particular ROM instead of the original ROM thread.
....
The down side to this is a thread like this will only open up negative criticism of a ROM and cause harm to the cook that maybe unjust. Not to mention that the problems need to be kept within the ROM threads in order to better improve the ROM's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what forums are for!! To ASK, and to ANSWER!!
Edit; I'm not going to say something, post removed.
Really, is it *that* hard to understand there is *no* best ROM? They are all different!
It's apples vs oranges. It can't be compared. If your imagination needs a bit of help, look up consoles vs PCs, or PS3 vs x360 threads. Have you ever seen one not turn into a massive flamefest? ... exactly!
If you want to make sure a ROM working, check the last 2-3 pages of ROMs thread to see if there are people complaining.
Developers Forum?
The notion that this is a developers forum is a myth anyway. The end users play a massive role in here, determining bugs, requesting new features or feature removal and indeed critiquing the ROM within its own thread.
The idea that WW3 will break out if we allow dedicated discussion threads seems a bit weak to me. I've seen heated discussions in ROM threads and they never became more than that.
I'm sure it is more to do with protecting the ROM developers so that the ones who's ROMs may be bottom of the pile don't walk away, which is fair enough.
But from some people there is an all around lack of respect on this forum for the general user who do that deepest broadest testing, offer wirespread feedback and go a long way to making the ROM's what they are today.
And do not forget - if these folks weren't here to download the ROM's, how many chefs do you think would be here to cook them! Both sides need each other. I don't doubt the chefs get a kick from giving people what they want.
The moderators don't 'need' to do anything (We will all be here anyway) but if they have some respect then they should take on board and accomodate what appears to be the opinion of a vast number of users.
I'm sure there is some middle ground somewhere if we try and look ....
Really, is it *that* hard to understand there is *no* best ROM? They are all different!
That is not the case. There are roms that are the fastest, Roms that are the smoothest, Roms that have the best landscape support, Roms with the best apps to suit needs amongst others. Certainly if you try and make one overall top ten then it is going to be a lucky dip, but nobody suggested that.
It's apples vs oranges. It can't be compared. If your imagination needs a bit of help, look up consoles vs PCs, or PS3 vs x360 threads. Have you ever seen one not turn into a massive flamefest? ... exactly!
I'm not sure consolve vs PC is quite the same a comparing different ROMs as they have the same hardware, similar architecture, purpose etc Your also getting a little needlesly condescending now ;-)
If you want to make sure a ROM working, check the last 2-3 pages of ROMs thread to see if there are people complaining.
This is good advice for bug testing but does not offer any more constructive information on the whole.
mwillems2 said:
Really, is it *that* hard to understand there is *no* best ROM? They are all different!
That is not the case. There are roms that are the fastest, Roms that are the smoothest, Roms that have the best landscape support, Roms with the best apps to suit needs amongst others. Certainly if you try and make one overall top ten then it is going to be a lucky dip, but nobody suggested that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How exactly they are not different then? There is no two exactly same ROMs, with exactly same aims and objectives of a cook over here. Reading ROM description tells you exactly what the rom does and what the cook aims to achieve.
As an example; some ROMs have custom themes, some roms use MaxManilla, some use stock, some use something completely different. You can't quantify what's better. It's personal preference.
You can't possibly quantify 'best apps to suit needs' as everyone has different needs. As I said apples vs oranges.
If you want to make sure a ROM working, check the last 2-3 pages of ROMs thread to see if there are people complaining.
This is good advice for bug testing but does not offer any more constructive information on the whole.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I'm trying to understand what are you on about, but I can't. What is constructive information according to you?
You have ROM description on the first page, you can check the last few if there are any issues with it. What else do you want?
[/QUOTE]
i agree what bobsbbq said ,is not fair to say that this rom is good and this rom is better but if you try the other rom is far more better,is dissrespectul from the chefs trying to help you guys having best rom's avialible and to open another thread to say things like that is bad,so for me i choose my own judgement and would not ask others wich rom is best,so this thread is closed
mwillems2 said:
The notion that this is a developers forum is a myth anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're saying this like it is somehow an acceptable, or possibly even a good thing. It is not.
It's true that this forum is now visited by people who:
cannot be bothered to read the first post of any thread
have no intention of educating themselves, only blindly consuming
will shamelessly ***** and make demands about things they are getting for free
These people do not make the community "better" in any way, and this kind of behaviour should not be tolerated in my view.
mwillems2 said:
The idea that WW3 will break out if we allow dedicated discussion threads seems a bit weak to me. I've seen heated discussions in ROM threads and they never became more than that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heated discussions in themselves do not need to escalate any further. They are already a waste of everybody's time, and have no place here.
mwillems2 said:
But from some people there is an all around lack of respect on this forum for the general user who do that deepest broadest testing, offer wirespread feedback and go a long way to making the ROM's what they are today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm relatively sure the user who is seriously interested in testing and reporting is not in need of a completely seperate thread to voice their opinion on which ROM is somehow "best". For testers it's not constructive to voice opinions about a ROM in any other thread than the original ROM thread.
mwillems2 said:
And do not forget - if these folks weren't here to download the ROM's, how many chefs do you think would be here to cook them! Both sides need each other. I don't doubt the chefs get a kick from giving people what they want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not so sure about that. I've seen plenty of chefs say that they basically cook for themselves, and just like to share. Even if they are cooking for the community, they do not need people to praise or diss their ROM's in any other thread than their own.
Overall, I feel the biggest problem with having a centralized ROM discussion thread is the intented audience: people who cannot be bothered to test and compare by themselves, people who cannot be bothered to read individual ROM threads.
What would be the point in creating a new thread for these people? Once it gets beyond 1 page, they will not bothered to read it anyway.
for me personally these "top 20s" don't have any value whatsoever but i understand why so many people want them. some of them are just lazy and want to avoid to read the threads, others are not able to think for themselves and need to be told what is good or bad for them and there are those who want to become famous reviewers.
for cryin' out loud, don't fix what is not broken! this forum is perfect as it is. moderators, don't let the comorades tell you what to do!
Volw said:
How exactly they are not different then? There is no two exactly same ROMs, with exactly same aims and objectives of a cook over here. Reading ROM description tells you exactly what the rom does and what the cook aims to achieve.
As an example; some ROMs have custom themes, some roms use MaxManilla, some use stock, some use something completely different. You can't quantify what's better. It's personal preference.
You can't possibly quantify 'best apps to suit needs' as everyone has different needs. As I said apples vs oranges.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think is better we not make comparative, believe it is better for all!!
but if you say it is impossible to compare among themselves the Rom, you're wrong!
lol reopened.
anyway i belive this huld be discussed. we are here three levels of people. so this will need for 1st level, and 2nd level will be trying the roms and giving feed backs. so 3rd level always will be cooking and editing roms. just my opinion.
lets start the work.. i go for duttys HG V.08
Hi guys,
I've been wondering whether the real reason of forbidding "best rom" threads is because it'll make people only download certain ROM's thus some lesser known ROM's won't be downloaded and it'll make the chefs sad? Because the chance of a "best ROM" thread causing an endless debate is low. We're all grownups here
"Best rom" is quite a subjective term and leads to a thread having hundreds of opinions but nothing concrete. If anything it lets people get a crowd majority.
I use Dutty's creme de la creme because I personally like:
- feels like I get better battery life than stock or energy based on my own personal tests
- 2g/3g toggle in communications manager app automatically
- slide to unlock on the bottom of the screen instead of the top when waking the phone
- 12 icons instead of 9
- task manager in system notifications
- start menu on bottom left
Finally! someone who knows about 'best'.
Can i ask a favour? Im dbuying a new car soon, whats the best colour to go for?
Thanks in advance.
EDIT - sorry, but i have another question whilst we're on it. Whats the best music to listen to please?
Thanks again.
Well no, more because it is useless...
Best ROM threads are not forbidden, just useless.
The best ROM is the ROM that fullfills the most of your personal needs.
Since there are 6 billion people on the world with varying needs, there are at least 6 million different needs.
How to weigh?
eg for some people 1 hour extra standby is more crucial 3D video performance.
So How to grade?
Some people do not mind offering up stability if they get more batterylife or more performance.
How to grade?
Best ROM suggests absolute truth, in case of ROMS there is no absolute truth, as people differ, their needs are different and the relative importance for their needs is different:
Take two business analists (A and B) :
They need just office 2010, WIFI access, Internet and phone, and their agenda, tasks, GPS for navigation and an occasional game (teeter will do)
Performance for Navigation is very important. WiFi access is also very important.
Still one analyst will offer 1 hour of standby in order to have more fluent GPS navigation at 25 fps, while the other is more prone to longer batterylife, even if this means navigation will "stutter" at 2 fps
Suppose also there are two ROMS (X and Y) Rom x fulfilling all wishes analist A, Rom y fullfillig allwishes of analist 2.
Now tell me whichof the two ROMs is best?
Have I illustrated sufficeintly how pointless these thraeds are, or should I be even more more elaborate?
Off course it is disappointing for chefs if their ROM is not liked, but a good chef will tweak his recipe so more people will start liking his work.
Wilco, samsamuel, I'm off to bed with the biggest smile on my face!!!!!!
samsamuel said:
Finally! someone who knows about 'best'.
Can i ask a favor? Im buying a new car soon, whats the best color to go for?
Thanks in advance.
EDIT - sorry, but i have another question whilst we're on it. Whats the best music to listen to please?
Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rofl
Love it sam
samsamuel said:
Finally! someone who knows about 'best'.
Can i ask a favour? Im dbuying a new car soon, whats the best colour to go for?
Thanks in advance.
EDIT - sorry, but i have another question whilst we're on it. Whats the best music to listen to please?
Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, that's not really fair. color and music are entirely personal preference. whereas with ROM, there's some definite factors that will help us choosing the "best" ROM: looks, battery, apps, ease of use, speed, and many many more. so if asking about best ROM is useless, so it's useless too to ask about best laptop, cell phone, etc., no? yes, it depends of what you need, but when people ask about best they just want to know the best overall-wise. and it won't hurt to share your opinion of what's best. see the reply from ap3604 up there.
dan138zig said:
looks,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
completely subjective, using looks as a 'best' decider is the same as me saying which colour is best. Some like sense, some hate it, some like the gtx theme, i think its terrible, some want chunky bright coloured icons, others want dark icons
battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some are heavy wifi users. sopme are gamers, others talk all the time on the phone. The radio you use is probably the biggest measureable factor in battery life, and we all know how arbitrary the radios are,,, great for one person, terrible for the next, so again, a totaly useless comparator
apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any rom that has the right apps for every user is gonna be so bloated as to be pointless. Theres not a user here who would use 24% of the apps in such a rom. A totaly arbitrary way of deciding on best.
ease of use
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The way i find easiest to do tasks is not gonna be teh same as the way you do things, and the way x y and z do things. Some want HTC messaging, some want MS messaging, , which is best? Well theyre both best, depending what you want.
speed,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A fast rom wont have eye candy, it wont have loads of apps running, so it wont fulfill your desired looks and apps categories, therefore it will be a trade off, and every person will trade those differently. Some will preffer no sense at all, in exchange for fast response, others will use sense with cookies hometab and tons of background apps and still consider a rom fast. Subjective.
So you see, THIS rom is the best, but so is THIS rom, and THIS rom, and THIS rom, and THIS rom, and THIS rom.
Which is best for you, however, only you can say.
At the end of the day, there isn't THAT much difference between the majority of the hd2 roms, its mostly surface differences. You can pretty much take any rom and make it much like any other rom. The ones that get the most downloads arent necessarily the 'best', they're just the ones that get updated most often, thus fulfilling the flash adicts needs for 'new new new', released by good chefs who support the userbase.
So which one's the best?
this one is teh one i considered best before i started to cook my own, sadly the chef moved on in february. On the PLUS side he gave me the kitchen to get me started, and i applied my own tweaks directly into it, so no more restoring serttings when i hard reset, cos theyre all hard coded, so now MINE is best!
that was easy. now everyone knows that best rom is by samsamuel. how about closing the thread now??
this thread is awesome!!!!!!
that is all for now!
let's put it this way...
instead of a thread about the best rom, why not make a thread (or whatever else) with a matrix comparison list? This will allow everyone to compare one or more roms and choose the best rom for himself ;-)
thegios said:
let's put it this way...
instead of a thread about the best rom, why not make a thread (or whatever else) with a matrix comparison list? This will allow everyone to compare one or more roms and choose the best rom for himself ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are already a few threads that started to do that, none complete. you offering to go through teh roms and benchmark them, and make note of their includes/excludes? it'd make a nice evening project.
thegios said:
let's put it this way...
instead of a thread about the best rom, why not make a thread (or whatever else) with a matrix comparison list? This will allow everyone to compare one or more roms and choose the best rom for himself ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree.
However, since there are so many roms, updating cery fast, keeping this matrix up to data will almost be a full-time job. That's also why every initiative has stranded. It is just to much work.
If cooks would maintain their rom in a matrix.....
But still it would only be about functionality (and perhaps known bugs). If one would include battery life and stability, testing will be a big effort, especially if one chooses to integrate battery life..... even more
dan138zig said:
so if asking about best ROM is useless, so it's useless too to ask about best laptop, cell phone, etc., no?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much yes! I wanted to know what would be the best native android phone sgs or htc dh. Simple question, right? Apparently not. 8 Pages in with folks unable to decide which is the best.
So with devices/roms so similar it really does come down to personal opinion based on attributes sam is more able/willing to explain than i.
Dont get me wrong i trawled thru many rom threads wanting the 'best' and soon realised the question was simple. the answer? anything but!
I hate these threads, they are so ****ing redundant...
Please peoples don't open each time a new thread fore "with rom is the best"!
No it isn't forbidding, but it is useless!!
Reason way, What is Best? Best is abstract!
something good fore me isn't fore someone els.
reason:
-use
-personal taste (how to measure this?)
-personal needs (professional/private use?)
-Language
-Options
-...
You see?
You know it will be easy fore some user to have such list, but here you have a big tip: Experience/Traying give you knowledge.
And what stops you if the rom you install don't satisfy you? nothing you just take a other one!
People usually get way too bent out of shape over newbie threads (Im surprised no one has rudely said "SEARCH DAMNIT!" already)
Instead of asking for the best though, I would ask a more specific question like: "Based on your guys exoerience, which rom gives you the best battery life?"
Having a debate about best roms here its like having a discussion of politic and religion you just cant get the right answer or a nice answer. Same goes with people bricking their phones and asking the same question over and over people get stoned for that. LOL this forums its like the streets you gotta know how to walk them and know who to ask and what to ask its a cold cold strees I mean forum.
Guys,
There has been so many "Which is the best ROM?" and "Which is the best kernel?" threads lately.
This is a reminder.. these kind of threads are NOT allowed.
Why are they not allowed? Well because that the best rom and kernel for me might be the worst for someone else. It's subjective. It's like asking who the hottest girl in the world is. Or which sports car is the best. If you ask 100 people you will get 100 different answers.
The best advice is to try them all and figure out which one is best for YOU and YOUR needs. Not based on what's best for someone else.
I have just been closing these threads but I'm going to start to hand out official warnings if it continues.
I understand the moral conundrum in saying that A is better than thing B, such things are not subjective but can be substantiated through facts. You can disallow saying that one or the other is better with idiotic posts "because lolz its awesome", but any other comparison is empiric and valid. The one and only thing this does not apply is aesthetics of themes.
Please stop the stupefying XDA as a community for the sake of political correctness with such half though-through policies, it's destroying this site as a real resource.
AndreiLux said:
I understand the moral conundrum in saying that A is better than thing B, such things are not subjective but can be substantiated through facts. You can disallow saying that one or the other is better with idiotic posts "because lolz its awesome", but any other comparison is empiric and valid. The one and only thing this does not apply is aesthetics of themes.
Please stop the stupefying XDA as a community for the sake of political correctness with such half though-through policies, it's destroying this site as a real resource.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you understand how many reports we get on threads where someone is asking "what's the best rom?", "What's the best rom for battery life", "what's the best kernel?"
The rules state these types of threads are not allowed. I just enforcing the rule. If you do not agree with the rule then I suggest you take it up with the Admins that make the rules not the mods that are enforcing them. I know I close at least 5 of these types of threads a day and it's our community that also finds them undesirable and this is why when there is a thread like this created tons of users report them.
These ARE subjective because what is the best for one person sucks for another. It depends on the person's needs and preferences. For some people AOSP based roms are best, for others not so much. The only way someone can find what the best rom for them is to try them all.
And I must disagree. Cluttering our community with pointless threads is doing more damage to the community than enforcing the rules..
As I have said, if you have a problem with the rules then take it up with the higher powers not the person enforcing them
AndreiLux said:
I understand the moral conundrum in saying that A is better than thing B, such things are not subjective but can be substantiated through facts. You can disallow saying that one or the other is better with idiotic posts "because lolz its awesome", but any other comparison is empiric and valid. The one and only thing this does not apply is aesthetics of themes.
Please stop the stupefying XDA as a community for the sake of political correctness with such half though-through policies, it's destroying this site as a real resource.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhm, has anyone so far ever posted a comment/thread where one's saying that rom A is better than rom B and then provided facts? Then again, who'd bother reading them? The average XDA user probably doesn't even care about a wall-post of differences between roms.
I don't see the problem as asking is A better than B .
The problem is ten posts a day every day of the week asking the exact same question does this forum no good at all .
In that respect why not a specific whats the best rom only thread for all such posts .
But to be honest i don't believe that will stop the multiple whats the best posts .
jje
Comparing ROMs is relatively useless because I dare say there isn't one person in this entire XDA community that has their device setup EXACTLY like yours (ROM, KERNEL, Apps, etc.). So because of that the comparisons become subjective and usually someone tries to grow their epeen and then it becomes null and void.
An acceptable alternative would be a "ROM Comparison Thread" - but that will just become convoluted.
jerdog said:
Comparing ROMs is relatively useless because I dare say there isn't one person in this entire XDA community that has their device setup EXACTLY like yours (ROM, KERNEL, Apps, etc.). So because of that the comparisons become subjective and usually someone tries to grow their epeen and then it becomes null and void.
An acceptable alternative would be a "ROM Comparison Thread" - but that will just become convoluted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if two people had their phones set up completely alike, they would still perform differently. The quality of the chip silicon can vary a whole lot. Most noticeable in what a user can stably overclock to.
JJEgan said:
I don't see the problem as asking is A better than B .
The problem is ten posts a day every day of the week asking the exact same question does this forum no good at all .
In that respect why not a specific whats the best rom only thread for all such posts .
But to be honest i don't believe that will stop the multiple whats the best posts .
jje
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Solution:
jerdog said:
An acceptable alternative would be a "ROM Comparison Thread" - but that will just become convoluted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. Do this single thing in a substantive and quality manner and sticky it, let it be editorialized, and you have your problem gone.
Ever since this forum opened every single comparison thread has been bombarded with posts complaining the thread goes against the rules, rather than there being any kind of problem with the thread content itself, that's why it devolves into a cluster-**** and the moderators get that many reports. 8 out of 10 posts are about people bashing on the OP for being an idiot because he's "going against the rule". The rule itself is causing more problems than the people asking these questions in the first place.
jerdog said:
Comparing ROMs is relatively useless because I dare say there isn't one person in this entire XDA community that has their device setup EXACTLY like yours (ROM, KERNEL, Apps, etc.). So because of that the comparisons become subjective and usually someone tries to grow their epeen and then it becomes null and void.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because you're doing a subjective comparison again. A objective comparison is saying:
ROM A has these and these features, those features bring advantage X and Y.
Kernel 1 has feature Z and therefore is more battery efficient than kernels who don't have Z.
I don't understand why this is so hard to do. Educate the masses.
AndreiLux, honestly, who the hell cares?
Theshawty said:
AndreiLux, honestly, who the hell cares?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that question for real? Is this what one gets for trying to improve the quality of the community? ... I'm sorry then and I'll leave, if nobody really cares.
AndreiLux said:
Is that question for real? Is this what one gets for trying to improve the quality of the community? ... I'm sorry then and I'll leave, if nobody really cares.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't leave. I'm nobody.
i like Best rom Posts,it make my stomach vibrate and make me try many Roms to be convinced.
nhariamine said:
i like Best rom Posts,it make my stomach vibrate and make me try many Roms to be convinced.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your stomach vibrating is a sign of gas held in for too long, or hunger.
If you want to change roms, the best thing to do is read the different rom threads and try the ones that interest you. Don't start a whole new thread.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
kofiaa said:
Your stomach vibrating is a sign of gas held in for too long, or hunger.
If you want to change roms, the best thing to do is read the different rom threads and try the ones that interest you. Don't start a whole new thread.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hahahaha,nice!!!:laugh:
I guess we can try that. having a dedicated thread for it. We will see how that goes. If we are making one for ROMS we should also make one for Kernels because there are a lot of "what is the best kernel" threads as well.. If it lessens the amount of threads we get on the matter significantly then good.
If one of you guys wants to create the OP (Looks at JJEgan) that would be great and then I'll sticky them. If not I can create them but I wont have the time until tomorrow night
I like the idea of a sticky, however I have always had a reservation about these things as they encourage "fanboyism" for want of a better phrase, this could in turn lead to the same old exchange of idiotic tit for tat.
Furthermore, and more importantly, the whole thing could be deemed as incredibly disheartening for up and coming, but less experienced, developers.
So yes, I agree that Andrielux has a good point about objective analysis of what a Rom provides, but I remain sceptical as to whether it would work out there, in the cesspool that was, at one time, an invigorating and intellectually stimulating environment.
XDA really has become a victim of its own success in that respect sadly.
I'm just grateful to ALL developers for their great work and to XDA for sharing it with us......and to all the staff who battle on trying to keep this place orderly and decent.
AndreiLux said:
Is that question for real? Is this what one gets for trying to improve the quality of the community? ... I'm sorry then and I'll leave, if nobody really cares.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're absolutely correct. This forum stands to educate the masses. The more people are educated, more good will come about. Having said that, everyone is on different levels of knowledge. We have to be able to educate the new users in an efficient and effective way. Having a thread that debates the merits and faults of different ROMs is an excellent way to educate people, Heck, I don't have time to test 100 different ROMs and I don't want to read thousands of pages of threads to find the BEST ROM.
Who Cares? I do. You know what's ironic? Check out FORUM RULE #10.
10. Help others if you can.
If you see posts from others where you can help out, please do. This place exists because people are helping each other, and even if you are relatively new to the matter, there's probably already quite a few people newer than you that would benefit from what you've learned. DON'T BE SHY.
AndreiLux said:
ROM A has these and these features, those features bring advantage X and Y.
Kernel 1 has feature Z and therefore is more battery efficient than kernels who don't have Z.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So. Is ROM A the best one out there?
Sorry. I couldn't resist. You make very valid points.
Sent from the Mars Rover.
JohnnyEpic said:
So. Is ROM A the best one out there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like B better because of the battery life.
Honestly though, Omega v27 is the beast of all ROMs and the stats prove it.
Personally, I always use stock but over 4 million thread visits impressive.
slaphead20 said:
I like the idea of a sticky, however I have always had a reservation about these things as they encourage "fanboyism" for want of a better phrase, this could in turn lead to the same old exchange of idiotic tit for tat.
Furthermore, and more importantly, the whole thing could be deemed as incredibly disheartening for up and coming, but less experienced, developers.
So yes, I agree that Andrielux has a good point about objective analysis of what a Rom provides, but I remain sceptical as to whether it would work out there, in the cesspool that was, at one time, an invigorating and intellectually stimulating environment.
XDA really has become a victim of its own success in that respect sadly.
I'm just grateful to ALL developers for their great work and to XDA for sharing it with us......and to all the staff who battle on trying to keep this place orderly and decent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Admins and mods, I'm going to have to completely agree with Slappy here. You're going to encourage fanboy-ism and this will lead to a lot of hate and division in the community.
Do you know what's going on right now? We have threads for specific ROMs where no one bashes each other. People stay with their fellow custom ROM users. If you merge all these warring nations into one thread, I'm afraid you're going to have to deal with a lot more than closing a couple of threads each week. People are going to swear non-stop and abuse specific custom ROM developers (which will be harmful for the developers and the substantial amount of hard work they're putting into their work day and night).
I've created the General Thread for that very reason- if people have issues/questions/problems, then they can come and discuss it with all of the helpful lads in the General Thread instead of making an inordinate amount of extra threads that clutter this great community.