Related
flybook A33i it does most things the shift can do with enougth funds left (got one with extras for a bargain price) to keep my athena or artemis if i choose so i dont lose gps or i might just get a bt gps receiver but this was a bargain it even makes phone calls out of the box
Agreed , I am sick of waiiting ! and more to the point - since waiting for the Shift , which I was DEFINATELY going to buy , even though I had just bought an Ameo, I have bought two similar devices
I bought an Advent U1a - which is the same as a Tabletkiosk i7209 , I have uprgraded the ram to 2GB and the thing absolutely flies now ! I am using it with a Hawaei E220 USB modem , and a tiny little usb keyboard
Also , I have an Asus EEE PC ,
I paid £199 (!!) for the U1A (plus £30 for the RAM and £20 for the keyboard ) - I also paid £99 for the USB modem , which gives me HSDPA - so lets say £350 for a device that may not look as pretty as the Shift , But I'd bet it outperforms it !
And then there is the EEE PC , OK , pitifull amount of storage (4GB) - but I have an 8GB SD card - £220
Having enjoyed these two for a good few weeks ( months , in the case of the Advent) - I really wouldn't be able to justify the huge cost of the Shift anymore - and beleive me , I am not normally one to 'cop out' of these things on the basis of price
If the Shift had been available 6 months ago , I would have bought one - no question !
But for me it is too late !
Battery Time
I am looking for a device with a loooong battery time. If the shift could run a full Windows Mobile there would be no alternative (with possibillity to switch to full windows that is).
So, I will still wait for the shift, and then wait some more untill someone can get full WM to run on it.
Unless one of you know a nice UMPC that has a battery life of about 5 hours? Because that would just do for me.
greetz,
Pfeffa-rah
It is my understanding that the shift does run full Windows mobile 6. Atleast thats what i saw on engadget when the guy from australia or wherever tested it.
Hi, with Shift and Ameo you can make Phone calls too, is this also possible with the other devices you mentioned?
Advent U1a
Flybook
Asus EEE-PC
correct the shift runs full wm6. i have tooked the latest htc shift's snapvue TODAY SCREEN(caps to enphasize its just a plugin not a whole interference) plugin yes its just plugin that limits the wm6 and put it on my athena and i had a full replica snapvue interface.
this is what happens with the snapvue plugin:
there is a exe that is in startup that hides that title bar.
snapvue.tsk is executed during customizations/first start and that give it black bars top and bottom
reg edit is done that removes the text and regular softkeys and makes them go to a dummy app that does nothing so if u click that area nothing happens.
snavue's dll hides the start menu and makes sure not even hard buttons(atleast not the athenas) bring it up.
snapvue is made to be the only today screen plugin to show so it is full screen.
in windows folder there is a folder created that is called settings and the settings button in snapvue goes to that folder so u can see most of ur regular settings that u would have access to if u had full start menu. this is done via apps like phone link, alarm, etc being put into windows folder and links to them in the settings folder.
i believe that is everything. remove the exe from startup and u have the title bar back. change softkeys back to calendar and contacts and those are back. remove/replace dll for snapvue and ull have startmenu back.
ull then have windows live, media player, connection setup and rest of the regular windows mobie 6 apps back minus all the new htc apps. snapvue and connection setup are only htc apps i saw in the shift rom.
the shift does have a full wm6 with qualcomm 7200. just needs to be unhidden.
now the question is why hide the rest of wm6. my guess is that since vista is there it has all the apps of wm6 like media player, internet explorer, etc... but in their desktop full version so why have the wm6 versions there 2. on the other hand wm6 uses less power than vista so we'll have to re enable all those again.
I can confirm all this as I've unlocked it in a december version. Pocket informant install just fine on it.
PAPPL said:
Hi, with Shift and Ameo you can make Phone calls too, is this also possible with the other devices you mentioned?
Advent U1a
Flybook
Asus EEE-PC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In a VOIP Kind of way - then yes , Skype works fine , Plus it is easy to send SMS's on the network the standard way
Flybook does everything a mobile can do its a fantastic machine.........,
spzero said:
Flybook does everything a mobile can do its a fantastic machine.........,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have one, it rocks
Pawel062 said:
correct the shift runs full wm6. i have tooked the latest htc shift's snapvue TODAY SCREEN(caps to enphasize its just a plugin not a whole interference) plugin yes its just plugin that limits the wm6 and put it on my athena and i had a full replica snapvue interface.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is great news That makes it worth waiting a bit more.
b.t.w. Will Pocket Office be in there too?
greetz,
Pfeffa-rah
spzero said:
Flybook does everything a mobile can do its a fantastic machine.........,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'm afraid I have to disagree.
I own the Flybook V33i for some while now and always it is a nice piece of hardware, it isn't even close to what I expected.
If you have the money, go for the Flybook V5 instead. Battery life is almost the same but you get the power of a dualcore processor.
I also own a Samsung Q1 Ultra Baron (UMTS/HSDPA), nice piece of hardware too, updated from Windows XP Tablet to Vista Ultimate (better touchscreen support) and added another Gig of RAM to the already available 1GB RAM, resulting in a pretty decent performance with 2GB RAM and the Intel 9xx GPU. The Intel Stealey processor with it's slow 800 MHz is no real performer, I have huge problems running iTunes DRM protected TV shows/movies, the stuttering is always present (and yes, I already tweaked a couple of things).
My latest acquisition is a OQO e2, 1GB RAM, 32GB SSD, HSDPA with Vista Business, a very impressive piece of hardware, you can't even imagine how small this thing is, most people think this is an old Pocket PC when they see me pulling it out of my jacket's pocket.
Unfortunately the performance isn't that great, 1GB RAM are not really enough for Windows Vista and the WiFi/WWAN reception isn't the best either but it works pretty well, no real chance with iTunes videos despite the 1.6 GHz processor speed (VIA sucks big time!) but otherwise the performance is good enough to keep you going. The 32GB SSD is a MUST since the faster transfer(mostly reading) times enhance performance a lot and somehow "cover" the slow CPU/GPU performance. With 2GB RAM, Intel Core 2 Duo ULV processor and a 64GB SSD(available soon from OQO), this would be my dream machine but unfortunately the OQO engineers seem to have different priorities. I still have high hopes getting the Sony UX next generation with the specs I was hoping for but right now, I can actually only recommend the Flybook V5, battery life however is not really that great.
I had the Flybook A33i for a week and returned it, it wasn't the performance/weight/size package I was looking for. The V33i is definetely a huge step forward but the most decent performance you can get from Dialogue is the V5, highly recommended.
Hello !
I will get my shift this week.
I have read, that there is a GPS integrated.
Does anybody know how I can activate it within WM so that I will be able to run TOMTOM ?
Here are the specs : ( german )
in the 3rd line you can read GPS
Betriebssystem: Windows Vista® Business, Deutsch
Prozessor: Intel® Stealey 800MHz + 945GMS + ICH7U; Qualcomm® MSM 7200, 400MHz
GPS
Fingerabdrucksensor
Speicher: ROM: 128 MB for SnapVUE RAM: 1GB DDR2 microDIMM RAM for Vista + 64 MB for SnapVUE?
Hard Disk: 1.8-inch 40 GB or 60 GB hard disk (manufacturer`s option)
SD Speicherkarte (SD 2.0 kompatibel)
Größe: 207 mm (L) x 129 mm (W) x 25 mm (T)
Gewicht: 800g mit Akku
QWERTZ Tastatur
Fortschrittliche Touchscreen Technologie:
7" TFT-LCD mit Hintergrundbeleuchtung und TouchFLO Bedienung
800 x 480 Bildpunkte
Kommunikation:
HSDPA/UMTS: Tri-band 850, 1900, 2100 MHz
GSM/GPRS/EDGE: Quad-band 850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz
SIM Kard Slot
Kamera: VGA Kamera für WEB / Videotelefonie
Audio:
Microfone / Receiver
Lautsprecher für die Handsfree-Unterstützung
Verbindungen und Anschlüsse:
Bluetooth® 2.0
Wi-Fi: IEEE 802.11 b/g
HTC ExtUSB (11-Pin mini-USB und Audiokarte in einem)
Stromversorgung:
Wiederaufladbares und auswechselbares Lithium-Ion Polymer Akku
Kapazität: 2700 mAh
AC Adapter
AC Eingangsspannung: 90 ~ 265V AC, 47/63Hz
DC Ausgangsspannung: 12Vdc, 3A
I think you may be a little disappointed with the GPS side of things? I don't think people have had much headway with restrictions the shift currently offers. First the integrated GPS is somewhat of an urban myth? It could be accessible, but I've not seen a 100% success story yet. Second if integrated GPS was present, you need to open up SnapVu to full WM6, then I understand that it does not currently have much space to put software? Thirdly If you managed to fit it on and can not access GPS then you also can not access either the bluetooth or USB through the SnapVu side. It does sound a little grim and I may be wrong? But that being said I love my Shift!!! and I'm sure before long the XDA Developer GOD's will sort out all of these downsides.
shift FAQ
Q: Does the Shift have a GPS module ?
A: Yes the shift have a build in GPS chip, but since we don't have any drivers for it yet, we are not sure if antenna etc. are there. (on the prototype units it was working so there is a good chance it will work on production models to)
NOTE: After i opened up my shift i can confirm the GPS antenna is there !!
here is the test of SHIFT with QSTARZ GPS
http://www.umpcfever.com/news/?postid=705
I think we can use the external GPS instead till the enabling of the internal one!
In the video, he is using Vista side - not SnapVu side! I don't think you are able to access either the USB or bluetooth on the Snapvu side.
kitkat_dave said:
In the video, he is using Vista side - not SnapVu side! I don't think you are able to access either the USB or bluetooth on the Snapvu side.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that should all be changing very soon. gps should be pretty easy to enable since it was in the test versions.
There is no special GPS chipset in the Shift - GPS functionality is just one of the many functions provided by the Qualcom MSM7200 - yeah, basically the chip that powers the WM part of the shift, including GSM/3G Radio. By the way: SnapVUE with the WindowsMobile-Like stuff is just a cheap side product of using the MSM7200: The processor is already there... even graphics and sound is embedded in the MSM7200 - in fact, HTC just needed to add some cheap ram, some cheap flash, and some glue logic (imagine a simble console switch that switches the screen, keyboard and touchscreen between Vista and SnapVue).
Regarding GPS, the "problem" is: The technology (drivers) for GPS are there - in the WindowsMobile/SnapVUE-Part (propably not implemented in the final ROM version, but at least, HTC has it available). BUT: SnapVue is not sold as WindowsMobile, but as SnapVue, without any support for 3rd party applications - it would not make sense to provide GPS within WindowsMobile/SnapVue (especially as there is no connection to the SD slot... yeah, stop dreaming, there is really no way to access SD or the HardDisk from SnapVue).
So, why is the GPS antenna there?? Well, there IS an potential option to use the GPS: HTC might (!) develop a software that provides a (virtual) GPS within VISTA - using a connector software in SnapVue. So, easy way to add another sales argument later (to prevent price dropping to fast) - and hey, they obviously just had not the necessary resources to get that software developed. Look at ShagControl.... instable, not really SP1 capable... they have more important stuff to get fixed than enabling the embedded GPS.
skin57 said:
There is no special GPS chipset in the Shift - GPS functionality is just one of the many functions provided by the Qualcom MSM7200 - yeah, basically the chip that powers the WM part of the shift, including GSM/3G Radio. By the way: SnapVUE with the WindowsMobile-Like stuff is just a cheap side product of using the MSM7200: The processor is already there... even graphics and sound is embedded in the MSM7200 - in fact, HTC just needed to add some cheap ram, some cheap flash, and some glue logic (imagine a simble console switch that switches the screen, keyboard and touchscreen between Vista and SnapVue).
Regarding GPS, the "problem" is: The technology (drivers) for GPS are there - in the WindowsMobile/SnapVUE-Part (propably not implemented in the final ROM version, but at least, HTC has it available). BUT: SnapVue is not sold as WindowsMobile, but as SnapVue, without any support for 3rd party applications - it would not make sense to provide GPS within WindowsMobile/SnapVue (especially as there is no connection to the SD slot... yeah, stop dreaming, there is really no way to access SD or the HardDisk from SnapVue).
So, why is the GPS antenna there?? Well, there IS an potential option to use the GPS: HTC might (!) develop a software that provides a (virtual) GPS within VISTA - using a connector software in SnapVue. So, easy way to add another sales argument later (to prevent price dropping to fast) - and hey, they obviously just had not the necessary resources to get that software developed. Look at ShagControl.... instable, not really SP1 capable... they have more important stuff to get fixed than enabling the embedded GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
snapvue is windows mobile. everything just has been made hidden. everything can be done with the proper time. gps anyway when enabled will be in the wm side. thats because there are better apps there and it will use less power then.
Pawel062 said:
snapvue is windows mobile. everything just has been made hidden. everything can be done with the proper time. gps anyway when enabled will be in the wm side. thats because there are better apps there and it will use less power then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no way (really!) to access SD or HDD from SnapVue (without running VISTA at the same time). So, GPS is mostly useless in SnapVue/WM. The only usefull way to use the GPS would be an GPS driver that pipes the GPS from WM side (SnapVue) to VISTA.
Remember: HTC doesn't sold you a WindowsMobile implementation, but SnapeVue. Period.
Pawel062 said:
snapvue is windows mobile. everything just has been made hidden. everything can be done with the proper time. gps anyway when enabled will be in the wm side. thats because there are better apps there and it will use less power then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 and we could get it soon .. with the Shift Project
skin57 said:
There is no way (really!) to access SD or HDD from SnapVue (without running VISTA at the same time). So, GPS is mostly useless in SnapVue/WM. The only usefull way to use the GPS would be an GPS driver that pipes the GPS from WM side (SnapVue) to VISTA.
Remember: HTC doesn't sold you a WindowsMobile implementation, but SnapeVue. Period.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow u people know lots about the shift *rollseyes* snapvue is wm!!! i'm not going to keep explaining myself to people who don't have a clue.
Pawel062 said:
wow u people know lots about the shift *rollseyes* snapvue is wm!!! i'm not going to keep explaining myself to people who don't have a clue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course SnapVUE is WM, no question - but HTC sells it as SnapVUE. By doing so, they don't support ANY third party application...
The main limitation of WM on the Shift is storage space: There is no way to add more space (e.g. by using an SD card...), as WM don't has an physical connection to the SD port, the Harddisk, the USB port... but without additional storage space, the use of WM is really limited. I've installed Opera to be able to surf without VISTA, that's enough for me. All i'd be happy about is a connection app/driver that makes the GPS (part of the MSM7200, thus, the WM part) available in Vista.
I bought a VISTA machine, not a WM device.
skin57 said:
...
The main limitation of WM on the Shift is storage space: There is no way to add more space (e.g. by using an SD card...), as WM don't has an physical connection to the SD port, the Harddisk, the USB port...
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everyone keeps talking about no physical connection.
Guys, I talked to some technical ppl and they say it's possible to use the SD card under WM.
Please wait for the Shift project team finds a solution and stop telling people that there is no connection.
michael85 said:
Everyone keeps talking about no physical connection.
Guys, I talked to some technical ppl and they say it's possible to use the SD card under WM.
Please wait for the Shift project team finds a solution and stop telling people that there is no connection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which technical people? What do they know that the rest of us don't and how?
If you look at the SD card under Vista you will see that it is on the PCI bus. As far as I can see, the only real connection between the Vista and WM sides is via the USB bus and the SD card isn't on that. Now, I wouldn't stick my neck out and say that it definitely isn't connected to the WM side, but it certainly seems very likely to me.
It is always better to err on the side of caution - telling people that the Shift project team *will* find a solution is worse than telling people that they won't, since if you buy the device believing that SD card access will become available you may end up being sorely disappointed! In this case, it is better to buy with a pessimistic attitude, and then be pleasantly surprised if SD card access is made available.
Regards,
Dave
skin57 said:
Of course SnapVUE is WM, no question - but HTC sells it as SnapVUE. By doing so, they don't support ANY third party application...
The main limitation of WM on the Shift is storage space: There is no way to add more space (e.g. by using an SD card...), as WM don't has an physical connection to the SD port, the Harddisk, the USB port... but without additional storage space, the use of WM is really limited. I've installed Opera to be able to surf without VISTA, that's enough for me. All i'd be happy about is a connection app/driver that makes the GPS (part of the MSM7200, thus, the WM part) available in Vista.
I bought a VISTA machine, not a WM device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
correct but with time most of those things can be brought back to the shift. one of things we will try to do is to get the hd or sd back so u can all install more stuff.
foxmeister said:
Which technical people? What do they know that the rest of us don't and how?
If you look at the SD card under Vista you will see that it is on the PCI bus. As far as I can see, the only real connection between the Vista and WM sides is via the USB bus and the SD card isn't on that. Now, I wouldn't stick my neck out and say that it definitely isn't connected to the WM side, but it certainly seems very likely to me.
It is always better to err on the side of caution - telling people that the Shift project team *will* find a solution is worse than telling people that they won't, since if you buy the device believing that SD card access will become available you may end up being sorely disappointed! In this case, it is better to buy with a pessimistic attitude, and then be pleasantly surprised if SD card access is made available.
Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no one is saying u should buy it bc it will be coming soon. we are saying it isnt impossible to bring it back. if i remember correctly the sd is tied into wm actually but on the very low level.
Pawel062 said:
correct but with time most of those things can be brought back to the shift. one of things we will try to do is to get the hd or sd back so u can all install more stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course i correct you: SD and HDD are connected to the PC-Side only. Hey, how would you implement a device-sharing on storage devices between two systems?? Imagine accessing the SD-Card from VISTA and WM at the same time... That's stuff that is implemented in Cluster-Solutions with SANs - but not in an UMPC, especially not by HTC.
Stop dreaming.
skin57 said:
Of course i correct you: SD and HDD are connected to the PC-Side only. Hey, how would you implement a device-sharing on storage devices between two systems?? Imagine accessing the SD-Card from VISTA and WM at the same time... That's stuff that is implemented in Cluster-Solutions with SANs - but not in an UMPC, especially not by HTC.
Stop dreaming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the only way is to open shift, and solder inside an SD-CARD..
I'd be up for a little soldering, and I'd happily lose the SD card from Vista to gain it on the WinMo side. But I won't be doing any hardware mods until the warranty has expired, by then I'll have newer, better toys and won't mind risking the Shift so much.
skin57 said:
Of course i correct you: SD and HDD are connected to the PC-Side only. Hey, how would you implement a device-sharing on storage devices between two systems?? Imagine accessing the SD-Card from VISTA and WM at the same time... That's stuff that is implemented in Cluster-Solutions with SANs - but not in an UMPC, especially not by HTC.
Stop dreaming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah right. You seems like a big boy knowing big thinks about clusters and SANs, but nobody is talking about simultaneous access. SD drivers can be disables on one side or one other depending on the needs.
And just to clear up thinks, debug tools are able to log to the sd card on WM side. It means lower level access does indeed exist.
There is no signal or proof that it is possible for the HDD, but I'm sure nobody was really hopping for this to happen.
I thought I would like to open a new thread for Athena and Shift comparsion. So the information would be more organized. For those who own both Shift and Athena, please your feedback highly appreciated. Anything at all, you regret your shift, or what you don't like about shift? or you love your shift until you want to let your Athena go?
@Wu5262 I thought you mention that you will never consider the Shift?
Thank you in Advance
I would mention what I like about Athena:
I'm using my Athena pretty much 12x7. All my data is pretty much synchronized to my laptop. I could get an instant on with Athena which I appreciate a lot. I could open many word documents with windows mobile 6 with high responsiveness. Snappiness is great when you need to retrieve any information quickly from time to time. I always keep my Athena in my pocket(Using Hugo Boss Dress Pant fit nicely) where ever I go even to Universal Studio until my Athena Dented from the rides(Duh!). It's got Dictionary for Business, Medical, and English, which I find to be very helpful for day to day basis. I have PocketBreeze to organize all my tasks and calendar at the very front of today's screen. That's the first thing in the morning that i would look at when I just turn on my Athena to organize the rest of my day. A Kick Ass Pocket Informant. I also have all my important documents and data on the laptop being stored in the Athena microdrives. Excellent battery life with USB Based car charger which is a big plus convenience. Opera lets me browse through many websites with a breeze. A big high quality 5 inch screen that doesn't strain my eyes. I own Thinkpad T60 and IMO the screen in Athena is better. I could still get fatigue with Thinkpad's screen, not sure why. All I need out of Athena is an even bigger, faster storage, and faster processor system. Speed is my upmost number one priority. My boss often calls me for an information and therefore I need to provide him the soonest or ELSE.
Minor Shortcomings: Slow Charging
Shift is tempting, but I'm afraid I may regret my purchase. I don't have the luxury to try out this baby before buying.
great post, i was thinking the same. at first there was the attraction to the shift, but now, i could get the blu ray burner vaio from comet for a shift. and keep my athena...
says it all really
Rory
PPC may do 80% of daily application, it's necessary to do some bank, AUTOCAD, and some others application under winxp when you are outside, I think winxp is enough, no need Vista.
only reason to use shift is for the vista apps that cant be found on wm.
It kind of funny you started this thread tonight - I just happened to take out my HTC x7501 tonight and have both of them out on my desk at atm. I have been torn ever since I have gotten my shift. I have been trying to use the shift only and see if it will fit all my needs. For my needs and think yours from reading your post you want to compare the WM6 side. The Vista side of the shift was supposed to be more of bonus for me to make it even more usefull. I had mistakenly thought shift's WM side would be as powerful as the x7501 right out of the box. I was very much mistaken. Till a cooked rom comes out for the shift it has many short coming compared to the x7501 on the WM side. No GPS, limited storage space and no camera functions. No external buttons that work in slate mode. So currently there is no comparsion needed. If I was compare the devices assuming a cooked rom will give us these things here is my take.
I see two major pros for the shift over the advantage.
The biggest pro for the shift is the screen. Both the size and the color/brightness of the shift's screen is a big plus. The shift's screen is hands down nicer screen. The useable shift screen size on the WM side is sligthly bigger than the entire x7501 device. The bigger sceen makes using your finger to navigate even better. It is also a boon for reading emails or ebooks. The second is the keyboard. The keyboard on the shift is way better than the x7501. It is bigger and has great feedback. It is a joy to type out an email mesage on the WM6 side of the shift compared to the x7501.
The biggest pros for the x7501 over the shift is it size ???
I know I just said the same thing about shift. But when you carry the x7501 around it is small enough to put in coat or jacket pocket and it form factor makes it look likea small book. Compare that to the "man bag" the shift is carried around in. The shift is much bigger and heaver to drag around. The shift dose not fit into any pockets of any jacket I own, and even if it did it is to heavy would weight down on that side of your jacket. The other pro of the x7501 over shift is its storage choices having the bigger internal memory, a mini sd card, and a hardrive. That is just sweet! Even after the shift rom is cooked it never be able to compete with x7501 in this area. I worry that I will always be wanting in this area with my shift.
You know I could go round and round with pros and cons both devices are nice, sexy looking and have features that other does not have. I don't know if I will ever be 100% happy with either now that I have both. I think I will have to hold on to both and visit this again after a cooked rom comes out for the shift. Till then I will probably keep switching back and forth and wishing that I took other device with me instead after a while.
I don't If I helped answer question but I sure have made myself confused now
stormforger said:
It kind of funny you started this thread tonight - I just happened to take out my HTC x7501 tonight and have both of them out on my desk at atm. I have been torn ever since I have gotten my shift. I have been trying to use the shift only and see if it will fit all my needs. For my needs and think yours from reading ....
I don't If I helped answer question but I sure have made myself confused now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
shift should i think be bought for the reason of u wanting a umpc. the wm side is not so good right now. shift is a nice device but has a bit too many shortcomings out of the box. it will be nice once modded. remind me a bit of the iphone
Oh one other thing I like better about the shift is that it's battery recharges much faster than the x7501. I know it not a big deal but I like not having to wait long for anything
stormforger said:
Oh one other thing I like better about the shift is that it's battery recharges much faster than the x7501. I know it not a big deal but I like not having to wait long for anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hehe yea thats a big plus.
stormforger said:
Oh one other thing I like better about the shift is that it's battery recharges much faster than the x7501. I know it not a big deal but I like not having to wait long for anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you are very right, the first time I bought my Athena, I was shocked on how slow the battery charging especially out of a USB port. Not sure if Advantage 7510 would improve considerably.
i guess i bought the shift because i realize i need vista to complete some of my work, there are just quite a few software which doesn't run under ppc, so i need an UMPC, another reason that i bought shift is because this forum, i know i will have lots of fun treaking the device and there will be lots of support here as well.
Shift is not for everyone, but certainly i am happy about it.
wu5262 said:
i guess i bought the shift because i realize i need vista to complete some of my work, there are just quite a few software which doesn't run under ppc, so i need an UMPC, another reason that i bought shift is because this forum, i know i will have lots of fun treaking the device and there will be lots of support here as well.
Shift is not for everyone, but certainly i am happy about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep. the community is always the key. u have the people from the athena forums here now working on the shift and u also have pof here. the shift will be a nice device once we are done with it.
HTC Shift Vs HTC Athena
the athena is a very good device. I bought the Shift mainly just for fun. In fact u can do most things on the athena. The curve of owning a HTC Shift goes like this. During the first few hours it was really fun. I was quite amazed with the quality and the keyboard. After playing for awhile then i realize the Winmo is far inferior to Athena. i cannot install all my applications into it as the internal memory is so small. Not only that it cannot read the SD card. I read somewhere in this forum that there is no way to connect to the sd card as there are no wires attaching to it. After that I left it at home. Without bothering to play with it. After a week I started reading this forum again and some smart guy suggested to remove the finger recoginition security. I did it and wow, the speed is now much faster and acceptable. I started removing all those applications I don't need such as Origami and so on. I tweaked around with the battery settings as well. Now I am beginning to like it again as I have longer battery life and a faster machine. One thing is that I don't understand is why HTC only puts 64mb ram into this. Are they thinking of launching a HTC Shift 2 with 128mb ram. And a longer battery life. I think this is a way they milk the consumers for more money..
Sometimes i really wonder what users in this forum are expecting from the Shift: Shift is a WindowsVista-UMPC in first place - the limited WindowsMobile-Part SnapVUE is just a nice Add-on for Instand-On (and powersaving) Mail, Calendar and Contact access. Not more, not less. That's why even the Hardware of the WM-Part is that limited (no Storage access) - hey, in fact, the WM-Side is not much more than the 3G Modem for Vista.
I bougt it because i wanted to have a small Vista-PC - otherwhise, i would have kept my HTC Universal. Yeah, i opended the WM-Side to install Opera and GPRSmonitor (too keep track of my 3G-Usage - 5 gigabyte contract...). But i don't expect more from SnapVue - and it does what's advertised, pretty well.
skin57 said:
Sometimes i really wonder what users in this forum are expecting from the Shift: Shift is a WindowsVista-UMPC in first place - the limited WindowsMobile-Part SnapVUE is just a nice Add-on for Instand-On (and powersaving) Mail, Calendar and Contact access. Not more, not less. That's why even the Hardware of the WM-Part is that limited (no Storage access) - hey, in fact, the WM-Side is not much more than the 3G Modem for Vista.
I bougt it because i wanted to have a small Vista-PC - otherwhise, i would have kept my HTC Universal. Yeah, i opended the WM-Side to install Opera and GPRSmonitor (too keep track of my 3G-Usage - 5 gigabyte contract...). But i don't expect more from SnapVue - and it does what's advertised, pretty well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you have your opinion and we have ours ... we know that the shift is able to do more than by default .. so we will try to make it the best possible.
the shift is not the fastest UMPC and if you bought it just to have an umpc .. I think that you got it wrong. The shift is first a double OS and it's important for US... because it's like having 2 devices in one ! A PDA/PPC that you can use 24h/24 and a computer that you can use WHEN YOU WANT.
I personnaly want the shift to replace my laptop, my desktop, and my phone (HTC TOUCH) .. it's my opinion and nobody will be able to change my mind about it.
If you think that for you it's a little computer and that you are happy with it .. that's cool, but we may want more for a device that can do more
that's all
Yeah i have an athena a phone viewty and a ASUS eee so this could replace all 3 or maybe just the eee and athena its a convergence device it does what it says on the tin but is only average at each point but good enougth i think
skin57 said:
Sometimes i really wonder what users in this forum are expecting from the Shift: Shift is a WindowsVista-UMPC in first place - the limited WindowsMobile-Part SnapVUE is just a nice Add-on for Instand-On (and powersaving) Mail, Calendar and Contact access. Not more, not less. That's why even the Hardware of the WM-Part is that limited (no Storage access) - hey, in fact, the WM-Side is not much more than the 3G Modem for Vista.
I bougt it because i wanted to have a small Vista-PC - otherwhise, i would have kept my HTC Universal. Yeah, i opended the WM-Side to install Opera and GPRSmonitor (too keep track of my 3G-Usage - 5 gigabyte contract...). But i don't expect more from SnapVue - and it does what's advertised, pretty well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for me, I was expecing Shift to be a superb WM Phone with Vista as a bonus. WM with a nice huge screen and a nice keyboard to work on. I already own Thinkpad T60 with 3GB RAM, 4GB Readyboost, fast little machine.
I'm not expecting the Vista in Shift to replace my laptop knowing that it's only got 20GB free storage to work on and 1GB RAM(For VISTA just INSANE).
Sure it would be nice to replace Athena and Thinkpad Laptop with Shift. But I will hold my breath on that.
koala996 said:
you have your opinion and we have ours ... we know that the shift is able to do more than by default .. so we will try to make it the best possible.
the shift is not the fastest UMPC and if you bought it just to have an umpc .. I think that you got it wrong. The shift is first a double OS and it's important for US... because it's like having 2 devices in one ! A PDA/PPC that you can use 24h/24 and a computer that you can use WHEN YOU WANT.
I personnaly want the shift to replace my laptop, my desktop, and my phone (HTC TOUCH) .. it's my opinion and nobody will be able to change my mind about it.
If you think that for you it's a little computer and that you are happy with it .. that's cool, but we may want more for a device that can do more
that's all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, i really LOVE the WM Part of the Shift - it's great to have instant-on-access to mail, calendar, contacts - and, after opening SnapVue, to OperaMobile (also as an instant on alternative... especially when Vista is doing updates etc). But again, it remains a UMPC in first place (and what it makes better than ANY UMPC on the market so far is the Keyboard, not to forget embedded 3G). That's what the hardware is designed to be - a UMPC with some added InstantOn-Functions. And that's the reason why the HARDWARE of WM on the shift is that limited: Low RAM, low FLASH, no Hardware-Keys in Slate-Mode, no Access to the HardDisk, no Access to the SD Card, no Access to WLAN, no access to Touchpad, no Access to the Fingerprint reader, no Access to the WebCam, even no Access to the Microphone (as far as i know - i analyzed the board very well, but it's hard to track wires on a multilayer board ). Yeah, these limitations are Hardware-Limitations, not changeable by a cooked ROM (and i really loved cocked roms for my HTC Universal). Yeah, i analyzed the hardware as good as possible. Yeah, it's possible to make this all available to the WM6 part of the shift - but ONLY (!!!!!!) with a running Vista and an application running on both ends that pass through these functions (and hey, this wouldn't make much sense, eh??).
I know, this is a WM community, so the focus HAS TO BE on WM. But again, the Shift was never designed to be an WM device in first place - and HTC markets it as an UMPC, not as an "Hyper-PDA".
By the way, ONE limitation MIGHT be removeable with WM 6.1: The screen resolution in WM.... 6.1 is the first version that supports 800x480 Screens (like on the SE Experia). So, indeed, there is some room left for improvements through cooked roms.
skin57 said:
Hey, i really LOVE the WM Part of the Shift - it's great to have instant-on-access to mail, calendar, contacts - and, after opening SnapVue, to OperaMobile (also as an instant on alternative... especially when Vista is doing updates etc). But again, it remains a UMPC in first place (and what it makes better than ANY UMPC on the market so far is the Keyboard, not to forget embedded 3G). That's what the hardware is designed to be - a UMPC with some added InstantOn-Functions. And that's the reason why the HARDWARE of WM on the shift is that limited: Low RAM, low FLASH, no Hardware-Keys in Slate-Mode, no Access to the HardDisk, no Access to the SD Card, no Access to WLAN, no access to Touchpad, no Access to the Fingerprint reader, no Access to the WebCam, even no Access to the Microphone (as far as i know - i analyzed the board very well, but it's hard to track wires on a multilayer board ). Yeah, these limitations are Hardware-Limitations, not changeable by a cooked ROM (and i really loved cocked roms for my HTC Universal). Yeah, i analyzed the hardware as good as possible. Yeah, it's possible to make this all available to the WM6 part of the shift - but ONLY (!!!!!!) with a running Vista and an application running on both ends that pass through these functions (and hey, this wouldn't make much sense, eh??).
I know, this is a WM community, so the focus HAS TO BE on WM. But again, the Shift was never designed to be an WM device in first place - and HTC markets it as an UMPC, not as an "Hyper-PDA".
By the way, ONE limitation MIGHT be removeable with WM 6.1: The screen resolution in WM.... 6.1 is the first version that supports 800x480 Screens (like on the SE Experia). So, indeed, there is some room left for improvements through cooked roms.
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Click to collapse
it's not because we are a WM community that we want WM to be the best.. we whant the SHIFT to be the best... and we are pretty sure that we will be able to make these things running in WM.
you think that we need an application to make everything working from WM side... but why are you sure that it's not the opposite? That an application running in WM side is "silently" sharing the hardware to Vista. .. and that it is disabled in WM side?
The chipset with 3G is from WM side... and the WM side share the 3G to VISTA.. so it could be the same for BT,Wifi, SD, ....
koala996 said:
it's not because we are a WM community that we want WM to be the best.. we whant the SHIFT to be the best... and we are pretty sure that we will be able to make these things running in WM.
you think that we need an application to make everything working from WM side... but why are you sure that it's not the opposite? That an application running in WM side is "silently" sharing the hardware to Vista. .. and that it is disabled in WM side?
The chipset with 3G is from WM side... and the WM side share the 3G to VISTA.. so it could be the same for BT,Wifi, SD, ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could argue with obvious hardware design (the UMPC side is pretty easy to analyze, have a look at the PCI and USB busses). I could argue with "Traced wires on the board" (something that is not really reliable on a multilayer board).
But you can easily find out on your own: Reset SnapVue and see which functions are gone in VISTA while WM restarts. You'll find out: 3G radio (of course, as this is provided by WM - by the way: Through internet connection sharing) - and propably the Sound (but not because Sound is implemented through WM - have not found the reason so far). Bluetooth? Available. WiFi? Available. SD? Available. HDD?? Available.
skin57 said:
I could argue with obvious hardware design (the UMPC side is pretty easy to analyze, have a look at the PCI and USB busses). I could argue with "Traced wires on the board" (something that is not really reliable on a multilayer board).
But you can easily find out on your own: Reset SnapVue and see which functions are gone in VISTA while WM restarts. You'll find out: 3G radio (of course, as this is provided by WM - by the way: Through internet connection sharing) - and propably the Sound (but not because Sound is implemented through WM - have not found the reason so far). Bluetooth? Available. WiFi? Available. SD? Available. HDD?? Available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have the Shift yet.. so I can't test it myself.. but I have never heard about it before (maybe because I have never heard about someone rebooting WM when Vista was launched).
It will be harder .. yes .. but we will try our best to make it work in both sides !
Hello - I just got my Shift yesterday. German Edition.
It works well. The only Thing is I do not get the WLAN to work.
I have 2 WLAN stations with G and N standard activated but I do not get a
connection. Certainly I enabled the WLAN in Vista with the THC Tool.
I also tried to do settings in the device driver.
But Windows Vista still does not find any network ( WLAN ).
EDGE is working when tunred on.
PLEASE HELP - OTHERWISE I SEND IT BACK.
Thank you in advance
Marcus
Send it back (sorry, couldn't help myself)
Hi Markus,
I had the "same" problem. I could not get a connection with my Netgear Router. Then I tried another one from t-mobile, what is its name? Speedport or something and everything works nicely.
So go somewhere and try a different router. Maybe it helps.
S.
I'm using a cheap old modem/router and it works 100%...I would try and different router too borrowed from a friend. You need to keep the Shift
Hello
So I decided to send the Shift back.
I am not willing gaming around with wlan. I spent about 6 hours.
WLAN ist a standard for years and my routers are absolutly standrd.
Why should I buy a new router while I am having some of the best on the market which work with all notebooks and computer and also iphone + htc kaiser ?
I Think they used a very damn wlan crad. Why not using a intel wlan ?
All in all the testing of the shift was funny. A nice UMPC with a very lack of having a Display showing 1024x600 Pixel. The 800x480 are useless.
So here I end my writing.
Much more fun - I wait for the next revision with Intel ATOM CPU.
Hard to know if it was your wlan or the Shift, or you? What is clear is the Shift isn't for you, because experience tells me if you had the issue above and you liked your Shift then you would have invested the time in finding a solution...
1024 x 600 is fine if you have microscopes for eyes...I have connected with about 7 wlans so far, without issue....Intel Atom CPU, might be good, who knows, but might the same too - we are talking low voltage here so there will still be limitations - Intel does not mean perfect by any means.
What we really need for this market is a more suitable OS, not beefed up hardward.
Hello - sorry you are wrong with me
I own even 2 more Samsung UMPCs and are familiar with a lot of mobile phones and devices ( it is my job).
We live in the 2008 and WLAN is a world wide standard.
A device with wlan has just to work.
Also I invested about 8 hours testing with drivers.
I am also windows certified on vista.
Even with this knowledge I did only get a connection to a neigbors wlan.
I own an apple aitport express configured as g+n
and an AVM 7270 with B+G configured.
The last 12 month I tested about 87 notebooks and about 40 mobile phones. All did work at once. Also many HTC devices.
The Shift did now.
Also I own a Sony mini Computer with a 5 Zoll Display and it is just better than the HTC - 800x480 is not made for vista.
Even the Shift startup Windows are not displayed correctly.
Sorry - it is very easy to read on a 1024x768 Display.
I think you just did not see a good one yet.
Vista also can configure the fonts so that is very good to read.
About the CPU - if you once see an AMTOM CPU you will never post something like you did. It is just amazin. I had one to test here.
I think the Shift is a good beta device - last year it woud have been a wow, but it was just released in germany and it is dissapointing.
Sorry !
Best reagrds
As I told you - I wait for Release 2 in some month
Hey man, I'm not upset or anything by your post, hope you aren't with mine, because I didn't intend that
I don't have access to the wonderful things that you do by the sounds of it, so if I have a device that has a error with something I tend to stick with it until I find a solution - I don't really have any other choice. So, when my Shift didn't pick up 3G properly I stuck by and tweaked it until it did. Sorry if I sounded insensitive - I know what it's like for something to not work...very frustrating.
Re the screen - I have seen the hi def wonders out there, and I've seen the blunders like OQO01 (dim and sorta blurry)...I actually like the Shift resolution for day to day use, but I guess if it had the option to support true 1024*768 then it would be better suited to everyone. I think you're right, the next version will most likely have better resolution...
OK, I will keep an open mind about the Atom...maybe it can answer our performance issues for these UMPC's (it's clear Via isn't up to the task either at present), although I will stick with my preference for the OS manufacturers to provide a better option than Vista, or at least a different "type" of Vista. XP is perfectly adequate and would probably fly on this thing esp with a gig of RAM....
I didn't realise until recently the Shift had been announced for so long...so even with relatively new eyes on it, it answered many of my needs - especially the pocket PC side...I paid $1400 for a Jornada 720 when they first came out, and so this device with a PC side, and connectivity at $2000 seems like a fair price. It's all dependant on ones points of relativity I guess.
Anyways, all the best, and I hope you find the right device for you...cheers
Hi all, i'm new to the shift scene and have a couple of questions:
1. I gather that the WM part of the device is an emulator running on Vista. Is there anyway to turn Vista off so its just WM that is running. (I guess not as the Shift has no WM capable hardware.)
2. Is there anyway to send SMS from the WM side? Can you send SMS from the Vista side?
3. Has anyone got TF3D running on it?
4. Comming from the Xperia X1 forum, there are loads of ROMs for the X1. Are there any WM6.1 ROMs out there for the Shift?.
5. Can you use a bluetooth headset with this device
6. How much does XP speed up the device? How much does Win7 slow down the device? Can you have XP or Win7 running WM?
7. Can you run TomTom on the WM side?
Many Thanks
vinokirk said:
1. I gather that the WM part of the device is an emulator running on Vista. Is there anyway to turn Vista off so its just WM that is running. (I guess not as the Shift has no WM capable hardware.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. You couldn't be more wrong. The WM side is actually a real smartphone built in to the shift mother board with it's own processor and all. WM is always on as long as there is power.
vinokirk said:
2. Is there anyway to send SMS from the WM side? Can you send SMS from the Vista side?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2. Yes it can even do that out of the box with no hacking.
vinokirk said:
3. Has anyone got TF3D running on it?
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Click to collapse
3. TF3D is to demanding on the WM hardware built in to the shift so a no can do there. You will have to be happy with point ui at best.
vinokirk said:
4. Comming from the Xperia X1 forum, there are loads of ROMs for the X1. Are there any WM6.1 ROMs out there for the Shift?.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4. Yup just browse the forum.
vinokirk said:
5. Can you use a bluetooth headset with this device
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Click to collapse
5. No, since bt is attached to the computer part and not the phone there is no bt on wm. You cannot use wired head set even. Actually the only way to make calls is using speaker phone. You have to remember it's a computer with wm, not a phone with vista.
vinokirk said:
6. How much does XP speed up the device? How much does Win7 slow down the device? Can you have XP or Win7 running WM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
6. Errh, The q is how well does xp work and how much better will it work with W7 then vista, remember W7 is lighter then Visa and works better on portables then Xp.
vinokirk said:
7. Can you run TomTom on the WM side?
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Click to collapse
7. Possible in theory impossible practically, we do not have the space avalible on the WM for maps. We cannot use SD since it's attched to the computer not the phone. It is possible to use the computer hdd but it requieres the computer part to be running and that will drain the battery.
The shift is NOT a phone, it's a special device in its own category. One should us it as a additional device not as a phone replacement.
use google maps
you can use google maps instead of tomtom.
Gmaps is another type of app. I's map app, tomtom is a navigator.
Yes you can browse maps on the shift, but no navigation.
Josasp, many thanks for your answers!
Just comming back to a couple of your answers...
Josasp said:
1. You couldn't be more wrong. The WM side is actually a real smartphone built in to the shift mother board with it's own processor and all. WM is always on as long as there is power.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im sure I saw in a video a guy was saying how the WM part is an emulation on windows. So you can have the Win XP part totally off and just have the phone on?
Josasp said:
2. Is there anyway to send SMS from the WM side? Can you send SMS from the Vista side?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you make it clear that you mean you can send sms from the Vista side?
Josasp said:
7. Possible in theory impossible practically, we do not have the space avalible on the WM for maps. We cannot use SD since it's attched to the computer not the phone. It is possible to use the computer hdd but it requieres the computer part to be running and that will drain the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How much space is there on the WM side. You say we can use the WinXP hdd, so does that mean that the WM side can access the WinXP HDD? I would like to use TT navigator in my car, so there would be no probs with power. So people on here have got the GPS unit working then?
Last question, is it 3G? I will have a look myself now for this answer tho, I only just thought of it
ANSWER: Yes it does support 3G
This really is an intriguing device! If only you could make proper calls on it without it being on speakerphone!
Ofc you can SMS you have full wm fuctionality, the speakerphone issue is just that the shift is missing a earpice and access to headset, so it leaves the speakerphone the only option.
I'ts not only 3G it is also HSDPA wich is fater then regular 3G, but notice that there is a CDMA version avalible to that is NOT 3G.
Well the WM part is linked to the computer(vista) in two ways, the first is some sort of internal usb connection that we can turn on and off using "usb tool".
The other way is that the WM and Vista is linked i an internal local network (LAN) that allows vista to connect to the internet using WM as a router an modem, much like a regular home lan.
The fact that they are linked via lan allows for us to use shared folders between the devices in the device, i't works in the same way you share folders over a home network.
Using this shared folders feature we can use the Vista hdd but ONLY when the computer part is on. So there is no direct connection betweed the vista hdd and WM only the virtual share.
I't works but it drains battery and it's slightly buggy, it's not really a great solution.
What would be way better in your case is sharing the GPS module over the internal usb to vista. That is a lot less data and is way more stable.
There is some good navigation software for regular computers too, garmin has a software similar to thier WM software.
A solotion like that looks a lot more stable if you ask me.
Couple more questions:
1)So the GPS module is 'natively' attached to the WM side but you can access it from the WinXP side?
2)Can you confirm if you can send texts from the WinXP side, what program do you use to do it?
3)Can you confirm if you can have the WinXP side totally off and just run the WM side?
4)There are some people on ebay sellling wired headsets for the shift, but you say they dont work...i dont understand! are these seller lying???
5)When the screen is flipped up and your on the WM side, does it go into landspace view?
6)Can you use the hardware keyboard on the WM side?
7)Can you use the trackpad on the WM side?
1. Yes with custom rom like almost everything.
2. Text is sent from WM side perfectly no need for sending from visa/xp/whatever.
3. Well WM is always on as long as the battery is in, vista/xp you turn on/off with a switch.
4. They work only on the pc/vista/xp side for msn/skype/other not in the WM side.
5. The WM side is always in landcape, it is possible to rotate manually in the WM side if you want portrait but no auto switching.
6. Yes, it works very well.
7. Nope it's connected to the PC.
You have to think of the shift as two devices regardless of the fact that they do not appear so. Think of the shift as a laptop connected to phone with usb and lan. When you press the snapvue button the keyboard and the screen will switch between these devices, so it appears that they are the same device.
What does this mean?
Well it means that some things we will never get since they are only connected to pc, like true hdd access or touchpad access.
Some thing we however manage to get working in one of two ways, the first is by using some secret way that htc built in the device but decided not no use like the phone, the other way is by using some sort of software for wm or the pc to send stuff over the lan or usb between the wm and the pc, like sharing GPS or the hdd.
But using some software share requieres both sides to be on and that will drain battery, and attery is the main reason we want to use the wm side instead of the pc. If the pc would last as long as the wm we would not use the wm at all. So having the pc on in order to do some stuff in the wm sort of defeats the purpose of using the wm.
The mouse pad is for the PC side, but if you have the PC side running and connected to the WM side via the program USBTool, then it is possible to control WM with the mouse pad/mouse with a program that has been mentioned in these forums before. I have forgotten its name
Ahh nice one Flanimal
What about the reception on the Shift. Comming from the x1 which has notoriously bad reception!
Ahh nice one Flanimal
What about the reception on the Shift. Comming from the x1 which has notoriously bad reception!
Flanimal said:
The mouse pad is for the PC side, but if you have the PC side running and connected to the WM side via the program USBTool, then it is possible to control WM with the mouse pad/mouse with a program that has been mentioned in these forums before. I have forgotten its name
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have remembered the name of this application that allows you to use the mouse and mouse pad in WM whilstVista/XP side is on. It's called trueconnect. It works very well.