Database Users

Magician USB OTG Evidence? (USB Host)

Ok,
I was reading a post over at the PSP Linux forum about suspicions that the PSP has USB On-The-Go abilities. USB On-The-Go basically means a device can be a USB Host or a USB Client, and is usually restricted to a a certain class of USB devices - eg you might want a USB OTG camera to only act as a host with Storage Devices.
Now to quote this page http://www.beyondlogic.org/usb/otghost.htm ...
As a device can be either a host (A-device) or peripheral (B-device) and that the USB specification calls for different types of connectors for upstream and downstream ports, the OTG spec introduced two additional connectors. One such connector is a mini A/B connector allowing a mini A or mini B connector to plug into the one recepticle. A dual-role device is required to be able to detect whether a Mini-A or Mini-B plug is inserted by determining if the ID pin (an extra pin introduced by OTG) is connected to ground.
This basically says that tradictional USB uses A connectors for Hosts and B connectors for Clients. Because they needed to allow OTG devices to be used as both a Host and a Client, they designed a port that could accept both mini A and mini B connectors. Unsuprisingly, this is called a mini AB connector
So, for small USB Client devices, a mini B connector is used. They look like this:
http://www.cypressindustries.com/products/images/ccmusbb-32005-201.gif
For small USB OTG devices, the new miniAB port is used. They look like this:
http://www.cypressindustries.com/products/images/ccmusbab-32005-700.gif
so go look on the bottom of the Magician. Low and behold, a mini AB connector! In fact you'll see the cable they gave you with your magician is a mini B but it still fits into the mini AB connector on the jam, even though it's a slightly different shape.
Now, it could be USB Host was planned or the port was added to allow backwards compatability with the Magician2 or whatever, but all the same it's a pretty interesting feature, given that a company can probably source mini B connectors for cheaper than mini AB, (as not many companies are making them yet).

So... does the Jam have USB host functionality or not???
If so, here's some drivers to take advantage of this function. Use at your own risk.
http://www.deje.gmxhome.de/
http://www.anypakusa.com/PPC/
Maybe one could connect the jam to a hard drive???

I've did some research, and if the Magician supports USB On The Go (why else would there be a MiniAB connector on the bottom of the device in stead of a normal MiniB (4p) connector) it should be able to play USB Host.
I'm ordering a MiniA to A Female connector and I'm hoping it will work out so I can connect a USB Flashdrive, GPS reciever etc.etc.

Why do people need USB host on their Magician? I can only imagine using an USB keyboard, but everything else I can do with bluetooth and my 4 GB MMC card.
And for using my Magician as "USB-Brick" I use this here:
http://www.softick.com/pocket-pc/cardexport2/

Well... I don't like wireless That's the most important reason.
I want to use a wired GPS-reciever in my car.
I want to be able to connect a USB mass storage driver.
And I'm a geek who just wants to explore every possible option
So why shouldn't I give it a try

esackbauer said:
Why do people need USB host on their Magician? I can only imagine using an USB keyboard, but everything else I can do with bluetooth and my 4 GB MMC card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I think most of the people are interested on the fact that you can actually use an ext hdd, e.g. you have 80GB+ of videos, mp3s that you play on your unit (although I doubt it is able to power the 2.5" type). You can print documents from your unit to a printer, get your pictures off your dig camera, use a USB ext wifi, etc.

hanmin said:
Well, I think most of the people are interested on the fact that you can actually use an ext hdd, e.g. you have 80GB+ of videos, mp3s that you play on your unit (although I doubt it is able to power the 2.5" type). You can print documents from your unit to a printer, get your pictures off your dig camera, use a USB ext wifi, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me for being a pain, but all these options are nonsense IMO, because Magician is the ultra portable device.
What is the sense of attaching a bulky 80GB hdd and cables to the Magician? To have its batteries empty in only 15 minutes?
Printing can be done wireless via infrared (HP printers) or WLAN, digicam pictures I can load by directly inserting its card in Magician. USB Wifi is also a joke as it drains the battery immediately.
If you want all these options, do it right and buy a Subnotebook and a 3G UMTS PC-Card.

esackbauer said:
Excuse me for being a pain, but all these options are nonsense IMO, because Magician is the ultra portable device.
What is the sense of attaching a bulky 80GB hdd and cables to the Magician? To have its batteries empty in only 15 minutes?
Printing can be done wireless via infrared (HP printers) or WLAN, digicam pictures I can load by directly inserting its card in Magician. USB Wifi is also a joke as it drains the battery immediately.
If you want all these options, do it right and buy a Subnotebook and a 3G UMTS PC-Card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ditto

I really doubt it supports USB Host. The board definately supports it, but HTC don't implement it. I think this will yield no results....
Hope you prove me wrong
And dude...... 1.8" Hard Disk Drives are TINY!!! so just quit being a spoil sport

Of course I wouldn't be connecting an periperal eventhough how small it is while walking around, but while at home or in the car sounds ok.

Well USB OTG would be great as I could dump all of my pictures on my digital camera (1GB card) onto my Charmers 4GB SD card. On holiday and stuff this would be really handy so I don't run out of space.

to be honest its not about what you can do with it, its partly bragging rights, hey look i can do so and so on my phone.... etc..

I, for one, would like to see a USB host hack.
Yes, there are SDIO wifis.
Yes, there are SDIO cards that allow wall projector connection.
But these require that I give up my memory card, where I store my stuff, making these things have only limited use.*
I could use Bluetooth, but:
- A standalone BT <-> Wifi bridge that isn't a PC or doesn't connect to a PC does not yet exist. There is a Bluetooth portable GPS receiver, but that's it.
- Projectors with BT enabled are FREAKING EXPENSIVE. Not to mention they aren't common. I've always wondered what that stray miniusb port on the more common small business models are for...
So why not buy a laptop, you ask?
Well, I already have a PC.
If you're suggesting I buy one, either you have never carried one around before, or you're so rich you can buy the lightest, least bulky ones without burning a hole in your pocket.
*That Sandisk 256/Wifi can't quite contain everything I'd want on my 1gig, leaving my only recourse to be (hopefully) the Eye-Film which is currently only in prototype stage. Sandisk already EOL'd that product anyway.

There are only 2 possibilities to get USB Host:
1. Wait for the WM2005 ROM for Magician, maybe HTC implemented the USB Host driver with it ;-)
2. Wait for HTC Trinity, maybe it has USB Host.
However, both options are not very realistic, because a WLAN USB Stick pulls 500 mA from the battery, so you get about 30 minutes battery life...
An USB Host has to provide power to the connected devices, and this is the reason why we probably won't ever see it on a mass market device.

You think you connect any USB device on that Host and it works? Like printers, scanners etc? Sorry, but you're dreaming. You need drivers for this and they just don't exist. There are no USB GPS mice that work with Pocket PCs and there are no Wifi sticks that work with Pocket PCs, period.
The only thing you could do is connect some mass storage device and use this. Besides that I'm 100% sure that the Magician doesn't support USB Host functionality, period.
So get a new PPC with Wifi and use Wifi disks etc. USB host would be nice but no Phone Edition device that I know of has it.

It would be SOOOOOO nice to connect a harddisk to my magician. A 4GB SD Card cannot store all my MP3s. And I want them all in my Car.

Dandie said:
So get a new PPC with Wifi and use Wifi disks etc. USB host would be nice but no Phone Edition device that I know of has it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, Eten M500 supports it.

You need drivers for this and they just don't exist
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Certain drivers do exist; like the JetCet unofficial ones. You'd also need to load drivers for SD-IO cards as well (IIRC the Sandisk Wifi/Mem combo needed a driver), so drivers are actually a non-issue. What matters is that it can be done.

jackleung said:
Actually, Eten M500 supports it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Magician also supports USB host, because
your BT is attached there. So what? It is the 500mA
current source and the electrical connection to
the USB socket that counts.

Currents not a problem i should think. All USB devices are standard 0.5A supply.. and all USB devices use the same supply.

Can I use an external hard drive?

Is it possible to connect an external hard drive to the Vogue to use it as an MP3 player hooked up to my stereo to play music? My hard dive has a USB slot. Does anyone know how I can use the MiniUSB cable to USB cable and use the songs on the hard drive?

wow
wow... really? wow... umm...
probably not, USB doesnt actually stand for universal... i'm assuming you'd need some type of drivers or simple deviece support.
MAYBE.... you could use bluetooth to access it? but you'd need to build some hardware, and software.... so... probably no
im not an expert by any means though... somebody check out?
[everybody be easy on him, it's a pretty damn creative idea]

I've heard of prototypes of Bluetooth/WiFi accessible portable HDD's, but I've never seen one in production.
As far as hooking up directly via USB, I don't think it's possible since almost no (if any) PPCs can serve as a USB host.

Eh?
I bought a 4 port USB Hub (powered(?) Never got it yet..)for the Touch from cellphoneshop.net, and I'm guessing that maybe USB Caddy might if it is a Microdrive, but yea, you'll probably need some driivers to make it work...
Interesting Idea, and I had that thought some time ago...I was about to add 5VDC (external) to my USB Caddy, and attach it to my touch... never did finish that project...

I tried a powered hub, and had no success.

LEO USB Host

LEO USB Host
0. The start
haha, USB host can work on HTC Leo, but with external 5V (VBUS) supply.
I already able to finish some proof-of-concept and it's working
1. About cable
First of all, about my cable: I made my own cable by hands.
You must have external 5V supply, I used output from PC USB (not mobile, but good for testing)
photo of my cable:
scheme of my cable:
(actually miniUSB have 5pins, but it doesn't matter here)
2. Software
You need USBH driver, otherwise USB Host won't work!
I am developing my own driver, based on EHCI standard.
Driver doesn't available for community yet, because it's BUGGY.
3. Some testing
I was able to connect and use:
1)USB Reader with SD card
2)USB Keyboard
3)USB Mouse
4)USB Stick memory
At the end you can connect any USB device, if you have CE USB drivers for it, of course.
Leo display driver doesn't support mouse cursor, so mouse is working without cursor...
Because Windows CE support only FAT filesystem, NTFS partitions can't be used.
Also HTC's XT9 not very friendly for USB keyboard input.
4. Look
Some videos (haha, the Flame's camera is too bad and I couldn't use Leo's camera, because it's main object in my small cinema )
so, sorry for bad quality.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwq8Ia3o0UE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XrCUS_WDaU
5. Status
At this moment the USBH stuffs are not stable. Sometimes device can hang, so you need perform soft reset. Sometimes it can't detect any device. Also you can't switch mode back from Host to Client...
When I make it at least usable, I will release it
-CotullaCode

Fantastic!! You're a genius.

wow! first HSPL, now USB Host! Legend!

nice job, keep it up!

Is there theoretically a limit on the size of the SD card that can be used? Can I order my 64 Gb card already? lol

This is great! Wait... not just great - this is insane!!!
Keep up the good work!

Hahaha epic win. Dude you gave us HSPL, now this... wtf comes next?? TV OUT? FM radio transmitter or RDS?

damn nice!!!
where do you have the knowledge from? where do you work??
are these "creations" hobby - based?
keep up your work, its really fantastic

Well done Cotulla!
unfortunatelly i cannot understand well your suggestions regarding the cable.
In the drawing in fact you show a "miniusb connector" (htc uses a microusb) , a "usb plug" [that seems being a male usb connector] and a sort of "power injector" adapter.
On the contrary in the images (and in the videos) we can see see two "female usb" connectors and a "male usb" connector (i understand that is to get power from the pc. is this correct?).
Can you please clarify/better explain pin connections.
Looking forward to have the chance to test your new driver
i would in fact like to start testing your cable with available ones.
thanks

with the linux sources of the QSD8* driver available it's a good base.
wait until we have linux working on the leo. then you can also make use of all those devices you attach
e.g. you can use mass storage devices with all file systems known to man, any input device.. etc

Hahaha epic win. Dude you gave us HSPL, now this... wtf comes next?? TV OUT? FM radio transmitter or RDS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
built in coffee-maker?
where do you have the knowledge from? where do you work??
are these "creations" hobby - based?
keep up your work, its really fantastic
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am still studing Yes, it's my hobby
but I already have big experience with CE hacking/coding (few years...), so it's possible for me do such things...
miniusb connector" (htc uses a microusb)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this scheme is old. It was designed for Diamond. (Dmd have MiniUSB, not MicroUSB) but my diamond died later (oh, I will remember him in my heart when I got leo I continue to develop USBH...
On the contrary in the images (and in the videos) we can see see two "female usb" connectors and a "male usb" connector (i understand that is to get power from the pc. is this correct?).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes. my cable have two female usb connectors and one male usb connector.
I connect USB device (mouse, kbd, reader) to one female and connect HTC MicroUSB -> USB cable to another female connector.
Male connector used as power source from PC.
clear? if not, I can make better scheme....
Also maybe instead of such cable we can use USB self powered Hub.

Woow, you know I have only two words: YOU ROCK !!!
Thumbs up, wish you fix the driver bugs soon and thanks for the great news.
P.S.: Might sound stupid, but do you think there's any chance, that other chipsets like QC MSM7500 have the hidden USB-host function too?

thank you for quick and kind answer.
A clearer full scheme of your cable as is (don't worry of microusb) would be welcome. i would like to understand which wires are connected to which pin and which are eventually unused.
I have tested various "powered" test connections [and also a powered hub) with some old drivers i still have from my old pda's and recently also with Zeno USB Host Drivers v6.0a (2009-02-12) but without any success.
regards

antoniof said:
A clearer full scheme of your cable as is (don't worry of microusb) would be welcome. I would like to understand which wires are connected to which pin and which are eventually unused...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the first scheme it looks easy. You just connect the to DATA wires from a female-USB to a microUSB DATA wires and then to get the external power you need to rip up a USB male cable and connect the black and the red wire to the black & the red wire of the USB female. Data wires of the male USB remain unsused. Hope I understood it right.

Hey cotulla were did you find these hidden usb host functionalities? on what dll? is it specific to qsd8xxx devices? i would like to study it, see if i can find it on my acer s200.

thank you farokh, but i'm afraid some piece of info is still missing:
a) are the data wires in the picture "straight" (standard microusb data pin to standard female usb data pin) or eventually crossed
b) what about power wires between microusb and the female usb? have they to be connected or not.
Since the handmade cabling by Cotulla seems to be working i would highly appreciate to have from him his very scheme female/female/plug with specification of the used pinouts of each connector to try exactly replicating it.

as alexnvidia said, your a legend ,,,,, thnx... will be waiting to give it a try

wow you kick htc's a**, you are our hero

great work looking forward for final release ...

Very nice work you are doing there. Keep up the good work!

[INFO] USB host works with female to female USB gender changer

I bought a USB female to female adapter to plug on the end of the charging cord, some things work, some things don't.
List of devices that work:
HTC Hero - Mass Storage mode (works 2 out of 5 tries aprox.)
Logitech G9 - Works, although only default buttons (left, right, scroll, middle) seem to work
SanDisk Cruzer 4GB USB Stick - Works
Generic Logitech wired keyboard - Works, although not all keys do.
List of devices that DON'T work:
Logitech Wireless Keyboard K250
USB external DAC
Generic Logitech USB mouse

I hope it can read usb flash drive too !!! already bought my female-to-female adapter too

I just tried hooking up my HTC hero with mass storage enabled and it seems to be hit and miss? It recognizes it 2 out of 5 times or so.

How about finding and wiring USB from the 40 pin connector
It is a given the 40 pin connector has USB. Does anyone have pinout / mating connector info?

Sweet, can you check external HDD? Powered 3.5 and portable 2.5in if possible?

buri73 said:
Sweet, can you check external HDD? Powered 3.5 and portable 2.5in if possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't have any on hand at the moment, I will possibly have access to an ext HDD tomorrow though and will check it then if I can.

That's great news. I did like having USB host on my GTab.

i'm assuming it's all fat32. it would be nice if ntfs worked out the box.

madsquabbles said:
i'm assuming it's all fat32. it would be nice if ntfs worked out the box.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NTFS SHOULD be supported, but yes mine are all FAT32/FATex/ext4

i will have to try again, i built a gender changer, tried it with one mouse, and it did not work so i assumed it would not work for anything, i'll have to try some thumb drives or something.

T3rry1 said:
i will have to try again, i built a gender changer, tried it with one mouse, and it did not work so i assumed it would not work for anything, i'll have to try some thumb drives or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it seems really picky, it recognized my G9 mouse but not a generic logitech one.

Just speculating, but I would guess that it isn't up to spec. So devices that have looser requirements will work (say it can take 4V instead of requiring 5V), but devices with stricter requirements fail.

did you try a all-in-one type card reader?
or connect digital camera to it?

T3rry1 said:
i will have to try again, i built a gender changer, tried it with one mouse, and it did not work so i assumed it would not work for anything, i'll have to try some thumb drives or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't that because USB mouse support is not in Honeycomb yet?

FrayAdjacent said:
Isn't that because USB mouse support is not in Honeycomb yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, Usb mouse is supported by HC. You can use one with the dock. This is more likely a power thing. The port's main use is power in and data, not power out. It may have strange limits.

cyberguest said:
did you try a all-in-one type card reader?
or connect digital camera to it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
don't have any of those, sorry.

Picked up a USB female to female plug today, and proceeded to plug in various drives, mice, Phoness etc, but no sign of anything happening at all. Is there something else I'm missing here? Cheers.

Can anyone with an SD/card reader see if it's recognized?
I'm going on vacation soon and would love to back up my photos to the TF.

Thought about this 2 days ago and bought one yesterday. Tried to plug in my Inspire 4G, external USB HDD and USB jumpdrive. None of them worked.

Merlin_AZ said:
Can anyone with an SD/card reader see if it's recognized?
I'm going on vacation soon and would love to back up my photos to the TF.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried a multi card reader and it didn't work. I didn't try a card reader that reads only SD (don't have one) but I doubt that it's gonna work given everything else I tried didn't (usb mouse, usb flash drives, Nikon DSLR)

[Q] Does the Acer a500 support a USB hub?

Hi, im wondering if i can use a USB hub with my acer so i can have a keyboard and mouse hooked up before i buy one.

Yes it does.
~Sent from my Droid SuperCharge~

Sweet! Thanks for the info

Yes but limited to power Requirements
As stated above it will Support a hub ..
But with limitations on devices.. you will not be able to say use a full size usb hard drive while connected to a keyboard and mouse at the same time. I belive this will be to much power . look at the amps and the devices are pulling and compare them with with the Hub says its needs are.. But this is common on any usb hub. they make some that you can use with or without power cord.. I have one that works will i think its a cheaper belkin brand..... very tiny and have 4 ports..

erica_renee said:
As stated above it will Support a hub ..
But with limitations on devices.. you will not be able to say use a full size usb hard drive while connected to a keyboard and mouse at the same time. I belive this will be to much power . look at the amps and the devices are pulling and compare them with with the Hub says its needs are.. But this is common on any usb hub. they make some that you can use with or without power cord.. I have one that works will i think its a cheaper belkin brand..... very tiny and have 4 ports..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have yet to see a "full size" hdd that doesn't have it's own power supply. Now an external portable laptop hdd is a different story

kjy2010 said:
I have yet to see a "full size" hdd that doesn't have it's own power supply. Now an external portable laptop hdd is a different story
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are correct because they require 12 v.. I use a 1.2 tb laptop drive in a enclosure on mine... it works without power but when powered its much faster.guess there is some type of throttle software.. mine has sata connector . that i also use on my laptop on the esata port .. there its awesome fast.. I have linux windows 8 and a diag version of dos installed on with a nice multi boot loader of course..
For those into games.. my sons Saitek x45 flight controller works on the a500. but MUST Be connected to a usb Powered hub . not sure what he plays with it other then the racing game.. from gameloft. So glad he is off to school now so i get my tablet to myself again...