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What do you think WinMo 7 is going to be like? Do you trust Microsoft to not screw it up? Do you think HTC will really give us a free update for our Leos?
I think it would be fantastic if they released a Beta version for the public to test like with Windows 7, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen, which makes me nervous.
Hopefully the Zune team has a say in the design, cause they seem to have their **** together.
I'm guessing it's going to be a combination between WM 6.5, Android, Iphone OS and Zune. Honestly I'm hoping for something revolutionary.
MS didn't mess up Windows 7 so there's no reason to think WM7 will be any different.
Think positive.
I think a beta test would be positive for them anyways, especially to beat down all the rumors and to give people a reason to wait/want those WinMo devices, guaranteeing the availability of WinMo phones by the time it releases to the world in final form.
If they don't act swift in these times there would be no manufacturer left to distribute to and it would pretty much be at the brink of death (= even more pressure)..
However, once they bring out a public beta, IPhone OS and Android might actually get inspired by it and anticipate before it is even released, making it less spectacular.
Yep, there are two sides on this.. I hope it'll be as revolutionary as they are implying.
laserviking said:
Do you trust Microsoft to not screw it up? Do you think HTC will really give us a free update for our Leos?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No and definitely no.
I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.
If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?
All of the "iPhone killers" died because of the following reasons:
1) No iTunes. Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.
2) User-experience less than iPhone's. The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.
3) Single form factor. Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.
Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.
I just hope MS doesn't market WM7 as some cheap alternative to iPhone. WM7 needs to be a great OS GUI-wise but also offer services equivalent to iTunes on a super-powerful hardware platform with no less than cutting edge specs. It appears MS is on this path but I don't know how great the end product is going to be. My fingers are crossed.
OMG can we please close this? Totally useless speculation.
If you have no clue, just don't post. I know a lot but I won't tell you anything, just wait for MWC and stop the silly speculation.
EDIT: WhyBe, your post is actually very intelligent. That's why I'll give you a hint: Trust MS to do exactly what you expect
(though not all is perfect)
Oh and @Shasarak: I told you before, but I will tell you again: Ruling out any possibility without actually having a clue is stupid
You always pretend to know what you're talking about, but you actually know nothing at all. And, you know, drawing conclusions from nothing at all is just silly. Much more so than those speculators who at least admit that they've got no clue.
Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.
"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here
mark0326 said:
MS didn't mess up Windows 7 so there's no reason to think WM7 will be any different.
Think positive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically this.
Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.
Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.
And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.
The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.
WhyBe said:
I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.
Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.
WhyBe said:
If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?
Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.
Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.
WhyBe said:
[/B]1) No iTunes. Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.
WhyBe said:
2) User-experience less than iPhone's. The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.
And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.
WhyBe said:
3) Single form factor. Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.[/I]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.
Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.
WhyBe said:
Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.
Get out.
WhyBe said:
services equivalent to iTunes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean lock-in?
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
^^^^^zune marketplace says hello
I certain hope there's no 'itunes' or 'single form factor', unless it's going to be their Zune phone, which I won't be buying.
I'm probably not who the new phone OSes are designed for. I just want to be able to copy files directly to it, use it for what I need, don't want to share data with them, don't really use social networks.
Spike15 said:
Basically this.
Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.
Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.
And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.
The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.
Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.
Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.
So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?
Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.
Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.
Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.
And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.
Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.
Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.
Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.
Get out.
You mean lock-in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Said. The only problem is that people really beleive what apple says.
If one said RIM & blackbery i would sort of listened. but iPhone! it doesn't do multitasking it's not an OS, it's a frimware
I do believe that WM7 is gonna be something that we didn't even think about. i don't know, maybe bringing another dimention to the scrolling? Vertical + Horizontal + Depth? that would be cool.
btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?
anaadoul said:
btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?
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Click to collapse
lol! Blue always comes to my mind when I try to imagine WM7. Maybe because windows xp, vista and 7 are by default blue?
I wonder if WM7 will actually be black! like the zune hd interface. will be really cool!
laserviking said:
Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.
"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah school playground... lol, grow up, little child. Maybe I'm not allowed to tell you something? Ever thought about this simple fact?
I already told you too much. Just re-read my post, you'll see it contains a LOT of info.
And NO, I do NOT work for Microsoft, nor HTC.
About all the speculation: It's OK if you speculate what it will/won't be, but what is very annoying is when
a) people complain about things that are pure speculation
b) people pretend they know something by using words like "definitely", despite that they actually know nothing
@anaadoul @mightymn It will be blue/grey
(but only by default, cause it's very customizable)
Btw. those are worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC0cxzLhFqM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfJZzeSZ0U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0typyfPG_4
@freyberry
In the absense of better information I'm happy to accept that you know 'stuff' and logically, if you do know 'stuff', you probably oughtn't to talk about it.
So in that spirit, if you were to randomly throw a dart at a calendar in the interests of picking a date - entirely at random - when the wider community might start seeing pre-release or beta versions appearing, what would be your hunch for where that random dart might land?
Nice topic, it is fun to hear what everybody expects from WM7
I am very confused about WM7... one day I am all happy and can't wait for WM7.. the next day I am not so sure about it anymore... MicroSoft can really go either way IMO.
At the best:
- Brilliant new OS: Nice looking UI, smooth, stable, NEW features the other OS's don't have, good services like Zune, Xbox Live, etc. But most important...
A GOOD APPSTORE.
If all goes wrong...:
- Minor update of 6.5.3, some small UI changes, Zune, Xbox Live.
-------------------------
In the end if I just look at my HTC HD2, and think very clearly: what is missing? I think of the following:
- HTC Sense is nice, but it just does not come together with WM. I would like it to become 'one'. HTC Sense can also get a little bit slow sometimes. I would prefer a HTC Sense in the styl of HTC Hero, with the widgets.
- I want perfect stability of the OS: no more crashes, no more lagging.
- I want more App Support. I want a decent official AppStore. I don't need 140.000 apps, but I want it to be a succes. So not like the current 'AppStore' which is dead.
That's it. Zune and Xbox Live support are not even so important to me. These 3 points I mentioned are a MUST for WM7. Now that I look at it, the iPhone has all of these 3 points. I guess in the end I can not escape the fact that the iPhone OS is brilliant. That plus the awesome hardware offered by the HTC HD2 will make it a beast.
And regarding if HTC will give us the update for free: I hope so, I thing the chances are 50/50. But even if they want some money for it, I will pay it. Up to 15 euro, not more.
Come on Microsoft, show us you can, like you did with Windows 7, Xbox 360 and Zune!
@Gustopher
Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.
I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.
After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.
Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes.
WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.
freyberry said:
@Gustopher
Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.
I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.
After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.
Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes.
WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Understood and thanks. If I were to try to paraphrase, your - let's call it a hunch - elements of the OS are coming together but it's not quite at alpha/beta stage...but could be relatively soon.
So maybe waiting is the best tactic...
Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.
(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)
Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....
...OK, here we go:
ppcgeeks said:
-At the Mobile World Congress event on February 15th, 2010, Windows Phone 7 will be unveilved, although at this time plans are only to unveil the user interface of the new platform . Specific indepth functionality of the device will most likely not be shown.
-The User Interface is based upon codename “METRO”. It will be very similar to the Zune HD User Interface with a complete revamp of the “Start” screen. The UI is “Very Clean”, “Soulful” and “Alive” [<-- That I can confirm.]
-Unfortunately there will be no Flash support at the get go as there was not enough time to implement these features.
-Windows Phone 7 will only support application installation through service based delivery. (i.e Marketplace). Application installation via storage card will not be possible.
- No Multi-Task support. Applications will “Pause” when in the background, however will support notifications via push notifications.
-Marketplace will now support “try before you buy” as well as an API
-No NETCF backwards compatibility. This means the original rumor of no backward compatibility for applications holds to be true. That being said, there are high hopes of porting the NetCF to the newer platform easily.
-Microsoft is confident that devices will be ready by September 2010
-Full Zune Integration
-Windows Mobile Device Center will no longer be used. Zune software to take over syncing via PC.
-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device. Say goodbye to Sense UI / SPB Mobile Shell / Point UI / Infinity, etc, etc
-Full XBOX Gaming Integration (Gamer tag, achievements, friends, avatars, merchandising, etc)
-Full support for social networking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/
Flame on! Hahahaha...
freyberry said:
Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.
(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)
Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....
...OK, here we go:
Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/
Flame on! Hahahaha...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't like that!
let's hope it's not true! i have always loved WM because it's so open.
no .net cf?! no way, this will mean loosing the whole developers community! i disagree with you i'm afraid
@freyberry
how can you tell all this? i'm close to MS here in my region and they didn't say anything and not willing to, notice that they support WindowsPhoneMiddleEast Community which i lead (look at my signature).
Want to watch M$ show WM7 to the world?
All details about Microsoft Windows Mobile announcement at Mobile World Congress 2010 - revealed, including live broadcast
February 10, 2010.
Secrets? Who needs them? Here are all the details:
Information from our anonymous friend follows (note: we know this person, we just will not reveal who this person is, as it is our principle not to reveal sources). Note: this is not a rumor, this is pure information.
* * * * *
Steve Ballmer's press conference during Mobile World Congress will be broadcast live on satellite TV (Eutelsat)
Timing: 1630-1645 UTC
EUTELSAT W3A 7 deg East TXP B1 CHANNEL 9MHZ SLOT 1L9 (D1)
UPLINK FREQ.: 14314 MHZ POL Y BY E-120
DOWNLINK FR.: 11014 MHZ POL X
SD 625 16:9 50Hz DVBS QPSK 6.6665Ms/s FEC 7/8,
RoF 0.35 (11_SD MPEG2 422 10.7514 Mbps)
OP MODE: HIGH QUALITY
AUDIO:1 SOUND MONO
AUDIO:2 SOUND MONO
And streamed on the internet (on www.microsoft.com/news/windowsphone).
And eh. yes Windows Mobile 7 will be introduced with Zune, Xbox, Bing integration. Games, free navigation, music, new kernel, new UI. Development in Visual Studio (code) + WPF (UI). OS 6.X will continue to exist and will be free OS for developing markets. Microsoft will kick back hard against iPhone and Android. Three year too late, but still people will be surprised.
As im on my way there ill update on here if i here anythink
Flunkyou2
I just read on a web site (ppcgeeks) that wm7 could have these features This is a rumor
-At the Mobile World Congress event on February 15th, 2010, Windows Phone 7 will be unveilved, although at this time plans are only to unveil the user interface of the new platform . Specific indepth functionality of the device will most likely not be shown.
-The User Interface is based upon codename “METRO”. It will be very similar to the Zune HD User Interface with a complete revamp of the “Start” screen. The UI is “Very Clean”, “Soulful” and “Alive”
-Unfortunately there will be no Flash support at the get go as there was not enough time to implement these features.
-Windows Phone 7 will only support application installation through service based delivery. (i.e Marketplace). Application installation via storage card will not be possible.
- No Multi-Task support. Applications will “Pause” when in the background, however will support notifications via push notifications.
-Marketplace will now support “try before you buy” as well as an API
-No NETCF backwards compatibility. This means the original rumor of no backward compatibility for applications holds to be true. That being said, there are high hopes of porting the NetCF to the newer platform easily.
-Microsoft is confident that devices will be ready by September 2010
-Full Zune Integration
-Windows Mobile Device Center will no longer be used. Zune software to take over syncing via PC.
-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device. Say goodbye to Sense UI / SPB Mobile Shell / Point UI / Infinity, etc, etc
-Full XBOX Gaming Integration (Gamer tag, achievements, friends, avatars, merchandising, etc)
-Full support for social networking
All i can say is "if this is true then bye bye WM7 hello andriod"
More rumors
Microsoft will drop much of the business side of WM in favor of the consumer side. The traditional business offerings like Office / Exchange functionality will of course still be supported, but the focus will be shifted to gaming and multimedia. The Xbox and Zune brands will be represented, the Zune player willl be included and it will be possible to wirelessly exchange data, multimedia, and games with the Xbox 360.
The first batch of phones that will be released will have pretty much the same chip specs, and HTC, Samsung, LG and SE will be the ones to deliver this first batch of phones. In this first batch (September 2010), the OEMs are apparently not allowed to make big changes, they all have to use the same interface.
This means, no custom UI like Sense, no Opera Mobile either. Instead the default WM UI will be used and a new PocketIE based on IE7, but with some functionality from IE8.
The second batch (end of 2010) will be allowed to have small changes, but likely only theme-based and addition of some custom application.
Only at the third batch (early 2011) will the OEMs be allowed to add their own interfaces, like Sense, Panels, TouchWiz and S-Class. (ouch that late)
The official announcements of the WM7 phones are not expected to occur more than a few weeks before actual release of the OS, [CF: so we probably won't see official (unleaked) specs and such before the end of July (based on the September release date)].
As hardware goes they say mostly the same as the chassis 1 specs. 1 Ghz+ CPU, Open GL ES 2.0, 800×480+, 3.5"+, 384mb+ (possibly 512+).
According to those we have seen the WM7 interface, it is nothing revolutionary. It should have standard multi-touch support and supports only capacitive. The interface is said to be a hybrid of iPhone / Android / Zune HD elements.
Apparently those that have used WM7 builds differ in opinion about the software. Some state it is much faster than for example the 3GS, while others mention apps are slow to start and experiencing ‘hickups’.
Apps-wise, old applications will in principle not be compatible with Windows Mobile 7, throwing away many thousands of apps that are currently available. It may be compatibility for old apps will be emulated, but this is not clear yet. How exactly this will work will likely be explained at MIX 2010 in March.
It certainly seems like only .NET apps will be supported [CF: ugh!], however it is not clear if the Compact Framework will be a part of that .NET support.
more rumors/info here.
.....indeed
flunkyou2 said:
"if this is true then bye bye wm7 hello andriod"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately if this is true. The only positive will be the zune lookalike and probably no more hangovers.
The rest looks just like Iphone. Not third parties applications without marketplace. I think WM6.6 will be more popular. And porbably Android. Steve Balmer did it again.
if it does turn out to be true, (paused in backgroud, service based app install etc) then i for one will be sticking to 6.5.x. Seems like too much of a copy of how apple works, and thats the very reason why i hate apple!
Sounds to me like WinMo 7 defeats the purpose of using WinMo all together. I too will stick with 6.5.x if this is the way things are going.
And all the profits from WM7 will go to Apple too
I am surprised that WM community falls so easily for the rumors spread by I WONDER WHO.
alexsql said:
I am surprised that WM community falls so easily for the rumors spread by I WONDER WHO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Serious, how does unsubstantiated speculation help anybody?
i really hope this is just nonsense speculation, because if its not, i will stick with WM6.5 on my HD2 for a long time. And when i need to buy a new phone it will be a Android one.
Lets hope the smart people here on xda will find ways around these things.
No way that this is real. It doesn't make any sense, it will be the last nail in WM coffin...
Maybe these (rumors) features are for the "Media WM7" version and the "Business WM7" version will be like WM6.5.x...
I can't really see them doing such a U turn on Windows.....but then again Microsoft copy the competition to crush them......that does sound familiar
Grow a brain, guys. This is WinMo's bread and butter for the upcoming generation and could very well be the nail in the coffin if MS fails. First of all, no multitasking? No flash? LOL. They've overcome that already with 6.1. People here will buy anything with RUMOR and SPECULATION slap onto it.
yes for now its just a rumor so lets hope ms doesnt become like apple otherwise hello android
lol..they did this for windows 7 also..
d3l1 said:
yes for now its just a rumor so lets hope ms doesnt become like apple otherwise hello android
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'll be in the q right behind you ..
the rumour machine strikes again. WM7 could be anything. we just don't know anything about it yet.
gabbs said:
lol..they did this for windows 7 also..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry for ot: no idea what you are talking about, win7 is nothing like osx
Yeah for french media to spread this rumor
This simply can't be true. Not even MS are that dumb.
I can feel the flames coming
OK I am definitely not disappointed with the Hardware itself. Great form factor and I converted a few of the office Apple fanatics to it... Some guys in my office actually bought the tab after seeing mine
It's my first Android device and... I am disappointed by Android (Flames coming closer) or more precisely by the lack of refinement of the "productivity" apps.
Let me be more precise: I come from the WM 6.5.5 world (boooh). Android OS is definitely more stable (No memory leaks, etc...) more finger friendly, etc... BUT also
* It has way less options, at least in its stock version vs my custom made WM ROM (Sure my Grandma could use it (This is iOSesque type of OS), but that's not exactly what I am expecting for myself)
* The email app, so much praised in many reviews is still way behind outlook for WM. I miss the little arrow sign indicating me whether the email was forwarded, replied, etc... Not even talking about all the options available in pOutlook that definitely simplify the everyday life. A lot of very simple things are just not there. If you have multiple attachments, you need to download them one by one (Have to wait for the first one to be downloaded to have the option to download the second one). Unbeded links and pictures are displayed immediately when in Outlook they are blocked first to protect you in case it's a fishing email. Etc, etc...
* You don't have a single box (Or let's say single app) for SMS, MMS, eMails
* Implementation of Activesync is not good, neither full. SMS are not synced, and there seems to be bugs and quirks here and there (Why the hell is my Sent box often TWO DAYS late on sync ?? Just havent found a way to fix this. It just refreshes... sometimes, when it feels like it)
* Copy and paste is not present everywhere, I cant seem to be able to copy from any text I see on the screen (In WM just long press and then you get the copy and paste menu and the ability to select some text). It's possible in some places that have been thought for, but not from anywhere
Etc, etc... I definitely appreciate the slickness of the OS, the smoothness overall (That said I believe my TP2 would also be super smooth with a Hummingbird processor on board...). The fact that it's a growing platform allows to have access to the latest apps while there was barely anything new for my TP2 these days. But yeah, honestly... a lot of the applications need more refinement. I guess this will grow with age (hopefully) but it's definitely not there yet at least out of the box
I am not saying this for the sole purpose of criticizing. I will keep my Tab and I do like it. But I thought the jump would be without regret and it's not the case for the moment. I feel more like I did a compromise and a move taht had to be (No interest in a closed platform like WP7 and can't stay on a dieing one). And hopefully some of you while reading me will point me to some solutions they found for themselves, some suggestions of third party applications. meanwhile I still go back and forth between my tab and my TP2 and I find it easier to email with the TP2 (OK the physical keyboard helps too) while also cant take my eyes off HTC Sense (This I know it's just up to me to make some effort and install the right stuff to have great home screens)
You have some valid points (copy & paste, sms+emails in one place) but the other features are so obvious.
You can't compare the native apps on Win (Outlook, Active Sync) that suppose to work well on Android. I wouldn't think this is a surprise.
Android definitely has a little bit of a learning curve. My EVO was my first android OS device and after learning the little quirks I am a borderline fanboy.
I am not sure I agree with the comparison to iOS. I think Apple does a lot more "dumbing down" where Android gives you more freedom but you have to learn how to use it. Apparently it's working well for Apple. Can't fault their success.
Are you missing copy/paste in a certain app? I used it just last night (just got my tab yesterday) copying my Launcher Pro plus key from an email to LP. Menu>More>Select Text>Copy, I think. Long press where you would like to paste.
Anyway, give it time. I think it'll grow on ya.
Yes you're right I was a bit unfair to compare with iOS
And yes it's true it's evolving the right way
Copy and paste: simple example. How do I copy amd pate text from a webpage?
I believe you have to press the menu button, go to 'more' and then hit 'select text'. After that gliding your finger over text will select it. Its still not refined because it doesnt add the two 'pins' to move your selection area...that is in Gingerbread I think.
More gives me only print, share page and page info...
Unfortunately...
Founds new bugs that are very unprofessional: some sms going to the wrong inbox
And some emails answers sent... Without the text I typed (empty)
And of course since I dont have the aent emails for the past 2 days I juat cant event check this
I understand it's normal to expect Microsoft technology to be better implemented by Microsoft. However if Google wants to be serious with Android in the enterprise world they need to work on their exchange implementation
honeatly this email problem is just incredible...
Forgot to add that even though there are lots of free apps, some of the very useful ones are not included by default. If you wnat a good RDP client --> $20 for instance (Free with WM) All adding up it makes Android a "luxuary" OS in some cases...
That said not to be unfair the market of free apps is quite impressive (compared with WM)
I think Android is great. The new Android 3D maps are amazing both on my Nexus One and Galaxy Tab.
That said, my single complaint so far is the lag in the native browser and with Dolphin HD. I can't say I blame this on Android OS because my N1 does not have this problem. I'm a noob so I blame this on Samsung.
Alcibiade said:
Founds new bugs that are very unprofessional: some sms going to the wrong inbox
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got that 3 days ago, an incoming sms displaying the wrong contact!... So I found that after answering to that same wrong contact, who warned me I probably have mistaken. I wonder how this can be possible... Samsung app?
Alcibiade said:
Forgot to add that even though there are lots of free apps, some of the very useful ones are not included by default. If you wnat a good RDP client --> $20 for instance (Free with WM) All adding up it makes Android a "luxuary" OS in some cases...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that unlike Android, WM is not free in and of itself anyway, so the comparison is slightly flawed - only slightly though because as an end user you do not pay directly for WM, the OEM does!
Personally, I've found Wyse PocketCloud to be excellent, even in its free incarnation - it was so good, I bought the Pro version!
Of course, no OS is perfect - despite WM6s age, it still has some strengths. In many ways, it's a shame that MS threw the baby out with the bathwater with WP7!
Regards,
Dave
Alcibiade said:
More gives me only print, share page and page info...
Unfortunately...
Founds new bugs that are very unprofessional: some sms going to the wrong inbox
And some emails answers sent... Without the text I typed (empty)
And of course since I dont have the aent emails for the past 2 days I juat cant event check this
I understand it's normal to expect Microsoft technology to be better implemented by Microsoft. However if Google wants to be serious with Android in the enterprise world they need to work on their exchange implementation
honeatly this email problem is just incredible...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android gets a lot of blame for things that have been modified by the vendor. I've been on Android since the launch of the G1. One thing I can tell you is every device is different. HTC has their own Exchange client, same with Samsung. Many times I see their proprietary apps cause these problems. It's the price we pay for open.
The Galaxy Tab's ROM is pretty flawed. Typical for a first gen device. I'm counting the days till an update is released.
My suggestion is go with an Exchange client from the market. Touchdown (no longer called that) was generally considered the best or just hang on till the next update. For SMS I use Handcent which I love.
Alcibiade said:
Forgot to add that even though there are lots of free apps, some of the very useful ones are not included by default. If you wnat a good RDP client --> $20 for instance (Free with WM) All adding up it makes Android a "luxuary" OS in some cases...
That said not to be unfair the market of free apps is quite impressive (compared with WM)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All enterprise apps demand big bucks. In Wimo's case that's a MS app hence free. But all the other enterprise stuff is $$$ for any platform. I agree with the other poster, PocketCloud is very good. I also have an Ipad and can tell you their apps are totally "luxuary" priced.
Give the platform more time. You're new and things are different so you're just going to see the negatives. Over time I would be shocked if you could even look at a wimo device...much less use it on a daily basis.
orenxda said:
Got that 3 days ago, an incoming sms displaying the wrong contact!... So I found that after answering to that same wrong contact, who warned me I probably have mistaken. I wonder how this can be possible... Samsung app?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait what ? That happened to me couple of days ago.
orenxda said:
Got that 3 days ago, an incoming sms displaying the wrong contact!... So I found that after answering to that same wrong contact, who warned me I probably have mistaken. I wonder how this can be possible... Samsung app?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I think we can blame Samsung about this. It's a real shamr cause I answered in a similar fashion to the wrong girl... Got in little trouble... But in the end kind of funny
Anyway shame on Sammy on this one. Very unprofessional...
Been reading the previous posts. My point was not to be critical of the OS itself. I do believe it's a much better OS than WM. It was much more about the applications that are still rough on the edges and not as mature as for other platforms
another example: in the samsung messaging application you cannot click on an HTML link to go straight to the webpage. Which year are we? 2005?
I too am very happy with my TP2, but I want a 7" phone. Although the Tab is the most close, it is still not there: many web contents are still available to WM and iPad only, the CDMA versions cannot make calls and are too pricey for the sluggish built-in browser.
Fixup said:
I too am very happy with my TP2, but I want a 7" phone. Although the Tab is the most close, it is still not there: many web contents are still available to WM and iPad only, the CDMA versions cannot make calls and are too pricey for the sluggish built-in browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have both now
Just need to find a good way to sync SMS between both...
Sad point is in the US you cannot have 2 SIMs with the same number. Otherwise would be living ina perfect world
Just found out it may not be possible to change my outlook calendar entries inthe Samsung calendar
i can delete but not move it to another dats
Maybe I am not doing it right... But we are getting close to a deal breaker
Honestly Android is a cool toy but feels so far from a professional well rounded product and only comparing with WM 6.5...
more and more diaappointed day by day..
This is why android is so great though...you said you had no complaints about the hardware being used, and I hear that a lot.
There are so many developers working on android devices including the tab trying to improve the UI and enable hardware acceleration etc.
I think that within a few months the tab will have roms that will fix or work around the various issues that are present in the current tab software.
Agreed android has a great future ahead
but there is quote some work to do. We are not there yet!!
Alcibiade said:
Agreed android has a great future ahead
but there is quote some work to do. We are not there yet!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the point is that Android scores lots of points where WinMo scores none, and vice versa!
My business uses Google Apps for Domains, so Android is a massive win for me. If your an MS shop, WinMo stills holds a great hand though 3rd party apps on Android can fill many of the gaps.
Over time we will see an awful lot of convergence - WP7 will get better and so will Android.
To be honest, for the most part, thus far Google have pitched Android as a consumer rather than business OS, and have relied on 3rd parties to provide full business integration. I expect 2011 will bring more to the biz table.
Regards,
Dave
A lot of people have been asking me this very difficult question: What is the future of Windows Mobile? Do you think it will die in a few years(about 2)? And other questions that are about the death of Windows Mobile. On this post I will say about my thoughts of the future of Windows Mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I've made this article to say every thing I think about a very polemic topic: The death of Windows Mobile... For sure it won't die in 2 years, it will take a lot more...
The article is on my blog, feel free to share it every where you want, but remember to give the credits
http://developmentcloud.blogspot.com/2011/02/future-of-windows-mobile.html
Leave a comment about the topic and my article. Happy reading
PS: I've made this article at midnight, so it may contain some errors and crazy stuff
Windows Mobile without Sense for sure is pretty crappy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to write this, but your statement is truly ridiculous, skip to very end of my post before you read rest, to understand why i said that.
As a matter of fact, death of wm started when HTC destroyed whole idea of PDA with its feeble, slow, but VERY popular devices(well..PDA's were made for work, HTC changed PDAs into just phones - popularity(money) rose, niche changed and this tendancy progresses now in absurdal way resulting with WP).
They just started to load their bloatware(manila,sense), in EXCHANGE for specs(and dpad/buttons), specifically. I know LOTS of people, that left WM platform just because of that, and even HD2 wasn't able to change that(FAR too late, too ridiculous, too buttonless, to expensive, etc, etc).
XDAdev forums took some part in whole process, imho(you NEED manila, you NEED sense - what a bull****).
HTC seem to be VERY happy after gigantic success of manila's, sense's resulting in destroying of many of old wm software developers(yes, by marketplace,my friend).
Finally, androidz and ridiculous iphone took rest.
95% of cooks i know and i respect would NEVER add manila, nor sense to their roms, as a matter of fact, actually most of them left wm platform already(well, rest bought...hd2, rich happy people mhmm.).
I will stay with my device(PDA with phone module, not HTC), as there is NO software i am using made for android, nor wp(sorry to say, old wm software is totally different league from actual promoted software, all about that).
So all i can say, have fun with your sense, twitter and facebook, but remember, there was something more few years ago, when future looked bright and good.
sorry for engrish, topic not suscribed(i have no nerves for that, you know, i am able to make skin for hs++ with functionality of whole sense, but it takes 143 kb, not 65MB, this is what made me posting my thoughts, i doubt you can understand me).
As I've said, that's my opinion and I respect your point of view
I liked your article very much. i tried lot of OS on my HD2 and the worst one was WP7. it is a ugly clone of iPhone OS. Windows mobile gives you full control of the device and you can customize it as much as you can...
I hope Microsoft will continue development on WM.
adempozhari said:
I liked your article very much. i tried lot of OS on my HD2 and the worst one was WP7. it is a ugly clone of iPhone OS. Windows mobile gives you full control of the device and you can customize it as much as you can...
I hope Microsoft will continue development on WM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes.. hope microsoft still continuing it...
Nice article, and it was interesting to hear from someone who has tried out the majority of OS's out there. I got my first WinMo device back in 2005, though it still had WM2003 running on it. Since then, I have been hooked on WinMo. Like you, I also have an iPod Touch and the OS is smooth, but the customisation abilities are next to none (even if its jailbroken). Anyway, in general, I agree with most of what you say.
However, where I differ in opinion, is that I think WinMo is going to disappear sooner than you predict. WinMo hasn't had an update since 6.5 (was 6.5.x ever on a commercially available device?). And even HTC haven't offered an update on Sense since the HD2 came out. Thank goodness for XDA-Devs and Cookies Home Tab! I am sure that through this community, WinMo will live on for as long as there are working devices out there (I'm in no rush to swap my HD2 for anything else). But even now, you can see that Android and WP7 are becoming more and more popular within this community. And outside, in public, if you pull out a smartphone (regardless of model, or OS) someone will ask "Oh is that an iPhone?"
The beauty of the HD2 (I'm on my second HD2 as the first one was stolen) is that it will run many different OS's. So far, I have run several versions of Android, WP7 and Ubuntu. But I always come back to WinMo as it still offers the best for customisation and features. The iPhone for me is only a toy/fashion device that is over hyped and seriously over-advertised (which is why it sells so well- that and Apples nice design).I liked WP7, which I ran for nearly a week. Currently in it's first version it is a bit lacking but it is FAST! And when I do eventually get to the point of having to give up my HD2, I am hoping that Nokia will have a seriously good WP7 device on offer.
I am sure that XDA-Devs will continue to breath life into WinMo and drive it on to places Microsoft never thought to take it. But sad to say, I think WinMo has been abandoned by MS, forever. When did you last see a new device come out with WinMo on board? Even HTC seems to have totally hopped ship to Android and WP7. And it's getting harder to find new apps for WinMo (where as, iOS and Android have zillions of apps to offer - most of them are junk, but there are some gems among them).
Sorry to ramble on, but that was/is my opinion. Bleak, but with very fond memories of what is still in my mind, the best OS.
Copied from a post I made in here but worth an inclusion here.
**********************************************
When you visit the Expansys website here in the UK and filter available phones using Windows Mobile, it only lists six models, the same applies to Phone 7.
If you select available phones by Android, you get nearly fifty, although some of these are duplicated as different bundles, +SD card, cradle etc. The writing is clearly on the wall.
Interestingly, one of the Windows Mobile phones is an Airo Wireless. At over £500, it is a rather expensive item, but it is a waterproof, rubber armoured device that would probably survive being fired out of a cannon.
Post #38 by Tpimp420 in the thread link above, mentions Microsoft have rebranded WinMo as Microsoft Embedded Handheld, in the much larger Windows Embedded arena, and are targeting these types of devices for use in enterprise business applications/solutions.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsembe.../overview.mspx
Microsoft has wised up to the fact that there are countless thousands of these things already in use, in warehouses and factories as barcode readers and pick-list terminals, in airlines (as Point-of-Sale (POS) terminals), data capture devices as meter readers, or in the field as customer survey recording devices, etc... etc..... The list goes on and on. These devices may occupy a niche market, but it's still quite a big one, which needs and will continue to need supporting. In the field these devices get a lot of use/abuse, and when they need replacing, with what do you replace them? An I-Phone or Android device? They wouldn't last a week!
WinMo as we know it, might not evolve much further, but Windows CE, and Embedded versions of XP and Windows 7 live on, for new generations of tablet devices. Microsoft has announced that it wants a lot more Windows stuff to run on ARM devices.
Meanwhile, there are still millions of WinMo devices out there, and sites like this, that try to keep them running.
Hi all,
What follows could be considered to be the ramblings of a lunatic however it is intended to provoke discussion and maybe some thought about where we (Sense users/fans) go from here. Personally I know I don't want to see Sense die off (I'm not planning on moving to Android or WinPho 7 any time soon, as you'll read) and my phone (HD2) is only a YEAR old!
The Future of Sense?
Many of us bought our HTC WinMo phones on the strength of Sense (henceforth referred to as Manila to differentiate it from its Android, and Windows Phone 7 "Hub", incarnations), which brought a compelling and attractive interface to ugly old WinMo. Judging by the amount of devices Manila has been (or has been requested to be) ported to it is still a compelling and attractive interface. However users and fans of Manila are now facing a dilemma; Manila is, in all probability reaching, if it hasn't already, the end of its (officially) developed life. Short of any previously unknown major bugs surfacing its not hard to imagine HTC now focusing all their efforts on Android and Windows Phone 7.
So where does this leave us, many of us who still have perfectly functioning phones, which often still have up-to-date hardware? We could, thanks to the guys (with very large brains) here on XDA developers, choose between Windows Phone 7 or Android to give our phones a new lease of life. However, personally (and I know I'm not the only one) I don't want to. Windows phone 7 doesn't appeal because of its lack of customisation (and copying of iOS on so many levels), and Android because of, well, Google! WinMo gives us the freedom to tinker, without the need of "jail breaking", which many of us love WinMo for. Manila is the icing on the cake... and everyone knows the icing is the best bit of the cake!
So where do we go from here?
Organise. Mobilise.
First off I don't want to take anything away from the (quite brilliant) people here on XDA Developers that have already managed (or facilitated others) to do some pretty amazing things with Manila, having extended it far beyond HTCs original scope. However despite all the hard work and effort that has gone into reverse engineering Manila there is still much that is unknown about it and parts we cannot change. If we wish to see Manila grow and develop (further than we already have), to keep our phones current, we need HTCs co-operation, we need the actual Manila source.
But why should HTC help us when they would probably rather us buy new phones? Well, HTC is a business and all good business' like a good deal. So, they've got something we want but what do we have to offer them in return? I believe that Manila has applications outside of Android and Windows Phone 7 (which HTC already have covered, so we can forget about them) so there is still one avenue left to us that we could attempt to try and tempt HTC with...
Swallow the Tablet!
At the moment the tablet market is dominated by iOS and Android but inevitably Microsoft will manage to muscle Windows into the tablet market. It managed it with phones (then, as we all know, lost its way) and more recently it managed to (almost completely) squeeze Linux out of the netbook market. At CES 2011 scores of Windows based tablets were unveiled from manufacturers such as Asus, Lenovo, Viliv and even Samsung! Microsofts desire to muscle its way into yet another market (tablets) with a full fat version of Windows is compounded by the fact that the next version of Windows (8) will support SoC architectures from Intel and ARM. Make no mistake; Whatever your views on the suitability of Windows for tablets, Windows tablets are coming and they will sell. However, lets not get too hung up on tablets, there are still millions upon millions (upon millions!) of PCs out there and sales of PCs are still strong.
But what does this have to do with Manila? Well, I believe Manila would make the perfect lightweight 3D widget engine for Windows and this is where our opportunity lies. HTC currently has a massive presence in smartphones and are now entering the tablet market (currently Android to begin with, but given their ties with Microsoft, in the past with Windows Mobile and now Windows Phone 7, it won't be long before they produce a full fat Windows tablet). However they do not (yet) have a presence, of any kind, on desktops and it is with this that we could tempt them. So, HTC get the opportunity to have a presence PC desktops worldwide and we get to extend the life of our phones that utilise Manila!
Don't forget the presence of "Sense" on the desktop would be a great marketing tool... people see the advertisements for Sense on the TV (as HTC are currently doing in the UK), they give it a try on their computer, like it, and may be inclined to buy a phone with Sense in the future. There are also the opportunities that "Sense" (Manila) on the desktop could tie in with Sense on phones.
To be continued...
Reserved for extra details
I would like to see HTC releasing a new Sense for Windows Mobile, just for the ROM cookers
That would be a nice look - Sense on my desktop as well as my phone - and CHT as well?? Perhaps synchronised so that changing the look of one chnges the other - interesting possibilities
nathanpc said:
I would like to see HTC releasing a new Sense for Windows Mobile, just for the ROM cookers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Nathan, thanks for your reply.
However I feel you are missing the point somewhat. HTC wouldn't need to release a new version of Sense, in return for the community driven development of a desktop version of Sense, the continued development of Sense, for Windows Mobile, would also be in our hands.
Ross202 said:
That would be a nice look - Sense on my desktop as well as my phone - and CHT as well?? Perhaps synchronised so that changing the look of one chnges the other - interesting possibilities
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Ross, thanks for your reply.
That there is a very interesting idea and exactly why I started this thread.
Strictly speaking, with the development of Manila in our hands, we wouldn't need something like CHT because many of the ideas behind CHT would be a part of Manila as standard.
I'm also going to propose a working group (the details of which will appear above shortly) - The Manila Community Working Group - which, I hope, will be made up of some of XDA's greatest independent Sense "developers" (and maybe even HTC? ) so we can thrash out what we would like to see in Sense, how it would work, and how we could achieve many of the feature requests (like your own) that we are going to receive. While the Working Group would be closed a thread would be naturally started to keep everyone abreast of where we currently are.
The more organised we appear the greater the chance of HTC taking us seriously and considering our proposals (and the greater the chance we have of also ensuring the continued development of Manila for our phones).
Could you put out a poll to determine the response. I am into this development, though I am not a developer myself. I've been through many different types of smart and not so smart phones. Manila/Sense is the way to go. In fact in my ROM cooking, any app/settings that could be access through Sense is remove from the Start Menu.
Let's get going
illi said:
Could you put out a poll to determine the response. I am into this development, though I am not a developer myself. I've been through many different types of smart and not so smart phones. Manila/Sense is the way to go. In fact in my ROM cooking, any app/settings that could be access through Sense is remove from the Start Menu.
Let's get going
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi illi, thanks for your reply.
Now thats the kind of enthusiasm I was hoping to see! I think Manila is the perfect way of hiding Windows (on a tablet, or PC) in the same way it does with Windows Mobile on phones.
I imagine a PC based Manila to have three modes of operation:
Widget Mode - Individual widgets can be placed on the desktop
Full Screen - Similar to how Manila works on our phones now with lots of added bells and whistles
Window Mode - Similar to the fullscreen version but in a more compact (borderless) window placeable anywhere on the desktop
In fullscreen or window mode widgets would be placeable on the "Home" tab and/or have their very own tab. The layouts/graphics required for each mode would be described in a single mode9 file.
Well, thats my thoughts, but I encourage anyone with any ideas to share!
*cough* bump *cough*
C'mon guys (and girls?), there must be more than 3 people who'd like to see Manila move beyond their phones and extend the functionality of their (WinMo) phones too?? Only if we can prove to HTC that there is a desire for this that we can consider approaching HTC and be taken seriously. Support for WinMo devices, as we know them, will gradually ebb away and its up to us to unite and take control of our devices? Do you really want your phones to be left behind?
Like I said, I don't want to take anything away from the (very clever) people on here who have already done so much to advance Manila, but its time to pool our resources and work towards the same goal... together.
Now is the time to stand and be counted!
thank you buddy, nice work
DJShadesUK said:
*cough* bump *cough*
C'mon guys (and girls?), there must be more than 3 people who'd like to see Manila move beyond their phones and extend the functionality of their (WinMo) phones too?? Only if we can prove to HTC that there is a desire for this that we can consider approaching HTC and be taken seriously. Support for WinMo devices, as we know them, will gradually ebb away and its up to us to unite and take control of our devices? Do you really want your phones to be left behind?
Like I said, I don't want to take anything away from the (very clever) people on here who have already done so much to advance Manila, but its time to pool our resources and work towards the same goal... together.
Now is the time to stand and be counted!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice thread. I really think HTC made a revolution with Sense. I bet if microsoft cintinued WM7, HTC would have no doubt released Sense 3.0. It would be brialliant iff we could get a update. Yes i understand your point of getting yhese manilla source files, but what goood will it be? I don't see many developers for WM nowadays on XDA. Most of them have moved on to android, ios, wp7. i think if htc were going to update semse, the first thing they shoul improve is the effiency and usage. Because atm it uses far to many resources.
Nice thread, Look forward to the update
olyloh6696 said:
Nice thread. I really think HTC made a revolution with Sense. I bet if microsoft cintinued WM7, HTC would have no doubt released Sense 3.0. It would be brialliant iff we could get a update. Yes i understand your point of getting yhese manilla source files, but what goood will it be? I don't see many developers for WM nowadays on XDA. Most of them have moved on to android, ios, wp7. i think if htc were going to update semse, the first thing they shoul improve is the effiency and usage. Because atm it uses far to many resources.
Nice thread, Look forward to the update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your input.
Yes, it would be nice if we were to get an official update but the chances of that happening don't look good, thats why we need to try and take matters into our own hands. You are completely right about developers leaving WM for other platforms but that is why we need to organise ourselves and present a case to HTC for the independent development of Manila for the Windows and Windows Mobile. The point is if we can get our hand on the Manila source then we can make the Windows Mobile version compatible* with the desktop version then any developments for the desktop version will automatically be available to those of us with Windows Mobile devices. This way we can leverage desktop developers to extend the life of our WM phones for us, developers leaving WM would be so much of an issue.
*Thanks to the similarities between full fat Windows and Windows Mobile its possible to make any supporting (helper) .dll's required by widgets/tabs for the desktop version of Manila compatible with the mobile version.
There must be more people who would like to have their say about this, before this section of XDA becomes a virtual ghost town?
Oops, double post!
Hi DJShadesUK,
Excellent start to a thread, some excellent ideas and thoughts.
I thought I'd keep the discussion on here for now, as it's more likely (hopefully) to continue.
These are just general thoughts, I hope will form into a balanced response by the time I've finished..
1st off, has HTC ever open-sourced anything before?
My impression of the mobile phone industry is that things are closed down due its competitiveness. The exception here of course is Google...but that is because their business model in this industry is totally different.
My thought is although the Sense legacy appears to be closing to an end from HTCs point of view, chances are they won't want to part with it, just in case.
What is in it for them?
As much as I would love to get my hands on the HTC tools used to create and modify things like the mode9 files, it all represents an investment made by HTC which however unlikely could be used by them in the future.
I've been impressed with HTCs handling of Sense being modded though, they could have stirred up a whole heap of trouble for people and locked things down, (I've even heard that a youtube video of CHT on an Energy ROM was going around HTC). Needless to say, they have supported us by not shutting it down and I hope they have gained in return from observing what we do.
There is a whole rats-nest of issues if HTC did decide, ok lets give them out tools and see what happens. Clearly the HTC branding would gain tremendously, I can see Sense being put on TVs, Set Top Boxes and all sorts. It would also show that not only can HTC make brilliant hardware, but they can do the same with the software.
We can only guess what HTCs roadmap involves, but clearly tablets will be there somewhere. It wouldn't surprise me though if they try something which is entirely Sense based (sitting on a basic os), perhaps a media player or tv gadget. Whatever it is, they clearly pride themselves on coming up with clever ideas (if the adverts are to be believed) and that means they will be careful about sharing too much.
Obviously HTC already knew that Sense was not much use for the future (at least in its current form) or they would have completed the Facebook tab they started and they would have been the ones writing the RSS tab. I see that as the point when someone pulled the plug on pushing sense further and let it wind-down (I still feel sorry for the person who did all the facebook stuff - hopefully the tab makes up for it by not wasting their effort).
Why sense?
What is it about sense which makes us want to mod it? Is it just because it is there and it works as it should. Is it the design and concept of it, that makes it easy to use and we want to build more on to it? Is it because .net simply sucks at graphics (as well as other things...)?
Personally I find it a pig to work with, it probably isn't with the right tools though. Similar things are possible with other methods, so why not use them, the tabs which are already there can be replicated. Does the possibility of Silverlight on WM open up other options?
However, CHT shows perfectly why sense is worth using, but is that down to how sense works or just how Cookie designed CHT?
I'm interested to know peoples thoughts on this question, what is it about sense in particular that we want?
Windows based Sense...possible?
This is an interesting proposal...I can see this in one of two ways.
1. Native:
Attempt to use lua scripts and mode9 files as they are intended, compiled and in binary format. Obviously the smoothest and most efficient method. Lua is an open standard, so information is available on it's use and methods (although not sure about the compiled form). Mode9 files I guess can be used directly, but such things are beyond my knowledge. Clearly there are issues with tie in to the system (i.e. registry access, hardware etc will need to be different), but that could be compiled into the files.
2. Interpreted:
By leaving the lua scripts and mode9 files decompiled, the files can easily be parsed and interpreted by another program. This would also allow an abstraction layer to be added which interprets calls to the registry, hardware etc and makes the suitable calls. Ok, slower to do on the pc, but the CPU power should be able to manage with it.
The mode9 side probably won't be too bad, since it's format is quite basic and everything is static. Lua script interpreting will be much harder, but that could be something which can be developed over time (by supporting the basics at first and adding more over time). Tie into to dlls could pose the biggest problem, but they would never have worked on other environments anyway.
If we had some kind of interpreter this would also form the basis of a designer too, allowing easy design of components and pages [at first a display, then perhaps a way to edit directly].
Note: This concept is not new but has been discussed as part of the manila visual kitchen.
Both are huge jobs, but there is the skill and knowledge to do at least the 2nd right here on Xda.
What is the origins of the mode9 files, could there already be something which reads them?
Are there other groups which have gone further?
Other than Cookie, there are very few which have totally re-built things from scratch [I must add my apologies if I've missed something]. For example one is Moonar's GPS tab, which is from Russian site which appears to do sense stuff too.
Are they using the same tools as us, do they have better ones, can we work together to produce new ones? I've noticed that a lot of the sense stuff show up on Chinese sites too, are we missing things here too?
Also I must add, the CMD line kitchen is a piece of art, each component is excellent and huge thanks to the whole group for the work done on it!
Something else of note:
HTC Home for windows...
http://www.htchome.org/en/