Database Users

MDAPro Just a few questions?

Forgive me for not really being able to search deeply into this matter, I've seen threads detailing updating with the JasJar ROM or an amalgamation of the the MDA/O2 ROM.
1) I have 43.72mb total storage and 47.93mb Program storage. This results in 91.65mb total storage??? Right, at 128megs where has 40mbs gone? I have pretty much the exact same set up on the MDA3 yet the two figures more or less add up to 128mb. Can someone confirm these figures with me?
2) Is there a new ROM coming out and soon? I'm not one to complain if results are going to happen, but the memory issue is a biggy to me as there is one more program I want to install on the thing and I doubt there will be enough free memory.
3) Software, I'm sure there was a better suite of software on the MDA3 when that came out. Okay time consuming it may be but sometimes I do like to run Messenger when I'm on the train - where has it gone? And if Microsoft think I'm going to pay £10.99 more for that feature they can go swivel. I followed a thread that said it's included in Windows - it's not on the MDA Pro.
I really love the design of the thing but the software just seems to be a joke. Where do I start? I have posted the MDA3 for sale on Ebay and I want to honour that sale, but I also want a device that replaces my MDA3 100%.
This includes getting TomTom 5 to work with my BT GPS receiver!!!

1. Sorry not sure about the memory
2. I havent heard of a new T-mobile ROM being available and they never seemed to work on any updates for the MDAiii
3. The software suite was better - I miss my messenger too and like you I am reluctant to pay microsoft a tenner! The backup software isnt avialbel either which is an arse.
4. Good luck with TT5 I had to upgrade my co-pilot to get it to work on new os.

If at all possible could anyone with the MDAPro and the carrier ROM please do a memory check on theirs to compare with mine?
If you're not sure how to do it - Start/Settings/System/Memory, I just need the total figures for Storage and Program

I have the same memory CONFIG as you have stated!

In WM5 you have separate ROM & RAM configuration unlike WM2k3...
So here's how ur memory is split up -
1. RAM 64MB
Out of 64 megs of RAM, you loose roughly 17MB on internal allocation. For the device to run perfectly it has various fixed RAM permanently allocated (DMA buffers (for ur cameras etc.), kernel level memory allocation, GSM memory, video memory, mem swap space, cache etc.). This total memory fixed can vary from device to device, and each company can tweak it accordingly. Eventually, the OS has roughly 47MB for use. Now again, when WM5 powers up, it again consumes around 17megs of RAM, giving you 30-32 megs of ram to use for your programs or apps!
2. ROM 128MB (permanent storage)
This is divided into the following -
a. OS install: This is where WM5 related files etc. gets stored. This is a total of 64Megs
b. Extended ROM: This is used by maufacturers to store their customizations etc. Another 20megs allocated for this
c. User storage: This is the space available for you to install programs, and for windows to bloat Thats 43megs that you find!
Hope this clears out
Cheers,
San

Thanks for you response having had an XDA for some time and then the MDA I was just quite suprised to see a Memory low warning message so quickly as I never saw one on the MDA3. I wanted to confirm that I wasn't having memory issues.

++++ We are solving Universal's memory leak problem... ++++

Bigface title to a not sure method, but with hoping success for the object.
I think everybody is fighting with this nerve-racking memory bug in wm5+vga+universal thing.
Me too.
Very very hard.
I'm very angry with this statement.
I bought the newest, most professional PDA with the oldest, most amateur speed.
It is not new for anybody, I'm sure.
I've opened this topic to solve this *******, because I think ROMupgrade is coming very slow.
I tried hundreds of different things to keep my RAM's free memory and get my Jasjar/MDApro/Exec more speed.
I'd like to share my experience to you and I'd like you to share your experience to us, to understand why does it happen.
OK....so.....
1) My first and biggest remark in this theme:
gwes.exe (this is a system process, which is runnig continously with the system to let us using functions of our device)
It is runnig with the following modules: (on my device, it is not sure all on yours too, but I think almost)
lrgwesex.dll
touch.dll
commctrl.dll.0409.mui
commctrl.dll
aygshell.dll
keybddr.dll
ddi.dll
toolhelp.dll
gwes.exe.0409.mui
toolhelp.dll
ceddk.dll
coredll.dll.0409.mui
ossvcs.dll
ole32.dll
coredll.dll
So...this gwes.exe starts with the system after a soft reset taking about 6MB RAM memory.
If you are watching carefully, when your RAM is getting less this gwes.exe is getting bigger.
In one of my examples after a soft reset I had 24MB free memory, and when I had just something like 4MB I checked the running services.
And you know what???
gwes.exe was using by then 19.5MB from the memory!!!!!!!!!!!
So I think when you start an application, system files are using more memory with applications, but when you close the application you have just more with the memory using by this application but less with the memory using by the system with this application.
I'm not sure with this, but i'm sure there is a big problem with this gwes.exe service.
I found more processes (device.exe, filesys.exe, cprog.exe, shell32.exe, repllog.exe) which are doing something the same but not that much than gwes.exe.
So if somebody has some reflections about this write it down to us!
2) A lot of people say there is a hack in the registry / storage manager cache keys which we increase, system will operate with higher speed.
I'm not sure now.
I tried a lot with different keys, and my suggestion is totally the opposite than that: when I set different cache keys (glyphcache, storage cahes...) to zero the system eats less memory and something the same with the speed.
Interesting.
I don't have exact results in these points, but thinking about somewhere here the answers.
Please help us to find the solution together to solve this irritating bug!
Sorry for my english, I'm hungarian.
THX
Tuningszöcske (It is in english something like Tuning-Grasshoper)

Here are my results ...
After Reset
=======
gwes 6.49 MB
filesys 1.86 MB
shell32 1.95 MB
cprog 2.12 MB
device 1.46 MB
services 215 KB
connmgr 91 KB
After Bloating
=========
gwes 12.7 MB
filesys 2.7 MB
shell32 2.39 MB
cprog 2.12 MB
device 2.3 MB
repllog 555 KB
services 407 KB
connmgr 111 KB
GWES really does bloat up a lot over time. Did a search on the net and it appears to be graphics related ...

It's good to see other's same results.
I'm searching for the answers countinously too...

I never have a memory issue with my dopod900, even after a week of usage with various games and application, the memory still remain around 22++M. Will try to check up the result and post it here.

I also want to know why........
After the reset, my machine has around 20M left and after a while, only 11M left and that's last for quite a long time. I have no experience that the memory is only around 4M....
Cheers,

chtan said:
I never have a memory issue with my dopod900, even after a week of usage with various games and application, the memory still remain around 22++M. Will try to check up the result and post it here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you using the stock machine without all the tweaks ? I mean have you applied optimizations like cache settings, etc ?
I'm just wondering if it might have something to do with some of the changes we made to improve performance :?

The issue is partially duie to Microsoft, but also partially due to 3rd party developers. I know for a fact that a lot of developers do not bother to have their applications issue defragment or compact instructions to the operating system after closing. They take up place and resources in the memory heap but do not "give them back" after they close.
You can blame the Universal as much as you want, but in my opinion it's one hell of a machine that had the misfortune to be the first officially released WM5 machine out there. Microsoft is indeed working on speed, stability and other issues form their end (the latest O2 Exec rom is by far the fastest and most stable ROM there is), but the developers need to do their bit as well and start working on their program's behaviour.
"If a kid does not tidy up his room, it's likely it will start losing things"

Wiz said:
The issue is partially duie to Microsoft, but also partially due to 3rd party developers. I know for a fact that a lot of developers do not bother to have their applications issue defragment or compact instructions to the operating system after closing. They take up place and resources in the memory heap but do not "give them back" after they close.
You can blame the Universal as much as you want, but in my opinion it's one hell of a machine that had the misfortune to be the first officially released WM5 machine out there. Microsoft is indeed working on speed, stability and other issues form their end (the latest O2 Exec rom is by far the fastest and most stable ROM there is), but the developers need to do their bit as well and start working on their program's behaviour.
"If a kid does not tidy up his room, it's likely it will start losing things"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm, you would think that Microsoft would be smart enough to put in some checks to automatically release the memory used by a an application after it closes :?
I don't blame the universal, the hardware is fine and I'm quite happy with it. I do however blame Microsoft. WM5 is just soooo slow. If I didn't do all the performance tweaks that's been discussed here, I don't think I can live with this device. You have to understand that I come from using 3 generations of Palm devices previously, and even though they are using much slower processors, they are waaay more responsive than WM5.
The last Palm I used was the Sony Clie NX70. I used it for 2 years without having to do ROM upgrades, etc. and it worked just fine. One would think that given the number of years that Microsoft had to improve WM, that they would be able to do a better job. As it is now, I'm finding all kinds of weird bugs all over.
Well, I'm just frustrated, sorry for ranting :lol:

christan said:
The last Palm I used was the Sony Clie NX70. I used it for 2 years without having to do ROM upgrades, etc. and it worked just fine. One would think that given the number of years that Microsoft had to improve WM, that they would be able to do a better job. As it is now, I'm finding all kinds of weird bugs all over.
Well, I'm just frustrated, sorry for ranting :lol:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been making the same point - M$ should know better and memory management is not bleeding egde tech. My Symbian devices have rock solid memory management, they just keep running for weeks and months without the need for a reset. For a US$1000 we should expect better quality all round. Lets hope in te next 6 months we finally get what we paid for.

jah said:
christan said:
The last Palm I used was the Sony Clie NX70. I used it for 2 years without having to do ROM upgrades, etc. and it worked just fine. One would think that given the number of years that Microsoft had to improve WM, that they would be able to do a better job. As it is now, I'm finding all kinds of weird bugs all over.
Well, I'm just frustrated, sorry for ranting :lol:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been making the same point - M$ should know better and memory management is not bleeding egde tech. My Symbian devices have rock solid memory management, they just keep running for weeks and months without the need for a reset. For a US$1000 we should expect better quality all round. Lets hope in te next 6 months we finally get what we paid for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sure hope someone here can figure out a hack to fix this soon, cause as it is now, I'm having to soft reset at least once a day, quite often more.
Can any users here who are NOT experiencing the memory leak issues come forward ? I think we would all like to know what we're doing differently that might be causing the memory leaks ...

chtan said:
I never have a memory issue with my dopod900, even after a week of usage with various games and application, the memory still remain around 22++M. Will try to check up the result and post it here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi chtan!
Is it possible to ask you to backup your registry to a file and upload here?
Just to see what is different in your system than ours.
And which is your ROM and ExtendedROM version?
THX

Hint
Hi Guys,
The above phenomenon is due to the reason that now we all have data in the flash memory.I was using earlier Nokia Symbian phones, viz 6600,9500...in all these the same used to happen and I had to restart the device...but there are 3rd party softwares, which compress the RAM if the above thing happens and we are at the initital full RAM memory w/o restarting the device...like Stacker, Switcher etc...similarly we also have "Place Maker" for Smart Phones...to do the same...someone can try this app...or someone can make an app to do the same...I hope this gives some light to solve this problem..

Re: Hint
hdubli said:
Hi Guys,
The above phenomenon is due to the reason that now we all have data in the flash memory.I was using earlier Nokia Symbian phones, viz 6600,9500...in all these the same used to happen and I had to restart the device...but there are 3rd party softwares, which compress the RAM if the above thing happens and we are at the initital full RAM memory w/o restarting the device...like Stacker, Switcher etc...similarly we also have "Place Maker" for Smart Phones...to do the same...someone can try this app...or someone can make an app to do the same...I hope this gives some light to solve this problem..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you are right.
This is a secondary option to solve this problem.
But I don't know any application for pocket pc which does RAM-compression.
Do you know one?

Re: Hint
Tuningszocske said:
hdubli said:
Hi Guys,
The above phenomenon is due to the reason that now we all have data in the flash memory.I was using earlier Nokia Symbian phones, viz 6600,9500...in all these the same used to happen and I had to restart the device...but there are 3rd party softwares, which compress the RAM if the above thing happens and we are at the initital full RAM memory w/o restarting the device...like Stacker, Switcher etc...similarly we also have "Place Maker" for Smart Phones...to do the same...someone can try this app...or someone can make an app to do the same...I hope this gives some light to solve this problem..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you are right.
This is a secondary option to solve this problem.
But I don't know any application for pocket pc which does RAM-compression.
Do you know one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By RAM compression, do you mean an active app that runs in the background to automatically compress stuff in RAM then decompress stuff in the RAM on-the-fly when used ?
If it is what I think it is, I don't think RAM compression is the way to go unless there is absolutely no other solution, cause compression-decompression will have a significant performance impact.
I think it's more important to get to the root of the problem

NO.
There are many applications for PC which make the RAM free from unused services, applications, files...
Using this method, you don't need to restart your machine.
It worth it for me to push a button or a shortcut to free the memory without a softreset.

Tuningszocske said:
NO.
There are many applications for PC which make the RAM free from unused services, applications, files...
Using this method, you don't need to restart your machine.
It worth it for me to push a button or a shortcut to free the memory without a softreset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opps, I misunderstood the use of the term "Compression" there ...
Yes, if someone can come up with an app that can "clean" up the RAM, that would be good too

Wiz said:
The issue is partially duie to Microsoft, but also partially due to 3rd party developers. I know for a fact that a lot of developers do not bother to have their applications issue defragment or compact instructions to the operating system after closing. They take up place and resources in the memory heap but do not "give them back" after they close.
You can blame the Universal as much as you want, but in my opinion it's one hell of a machine that had the misfortune to be the first officially released WM5 machine out there. Microsoft is indeed working on speed, stability and other issues form their end (the latest O2 Exec rom is by far the fastest and most stable ROM there is), but the developers need to do their bit as well and start working on their program's behaviour.
"If a kid does not tidy up his room, it's likely it will start losing things"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No hack or tweak applied, everything in stock condition. This confirmed my suspicious that Exec and I-mate only having this problem and this is due to their highly customized rom set.

That is strange.. I also have Dopod 900 and suffer from the same problem of memory leaks. The first time I got my Dopod 900 with factory default settings and applications, I played with it for 2 days and noticed that the memory went down to 15++ M.
So I would assume that without any 3rd party applications installed, memory leaks problem is there..

Chtan!
Then you could be a magician, because - i think - we all use the ROM with factory settings after a hard reset, and then - same as you -, when we install a lot of different applications and games, we have the memory leak.
So, what about this registry backup for us?
Or can you write it here the apps and games you use?

I have not performed a soft reset for 5 days. I am performing a test on how long my EXEC can last without having to perform a soft reset. I use mine regularly everyday, about an hour on phone calls, 2 hours on browsing using PIE, the usual opening and closing of applications, and I leave it at night charging while playing a DVD on a continuous loop for non-stop movie playback. I do admit the only time I notice slow downs (4 seconds to open an application) is if I leave about 10 open applications at the same time running in the background. That is why I make sure I close all open applications after use using Handy Menu's option to close all. As of now here is my memory allocations:
Storage
Total: 43.72 MB
In use: 14.52 MB
Free: 29.19 MB
Program
Total: 49.93 MB
In use: 30.94 MB
Free : 18.99 MB (with active sync open and running attached to my computer) If I unplugged my EXEC and close active sync, it goes back to 20.19 MB
These are all my open applications and memory usage without any slow downs:
gwes.exe: 7.48 MB
filesys.exe: 2.72 MB
device.exe: 2.43 MB
cprog.exe: 2.33 MB
shell32.exe: 1.43 MB
repllog.exe: 499.69 KB
services.exe: 227.76 KB
tmail.exe: 163.62 KB
connmgr.exe: 131.81 KB
HandyMenu.exe: 123.81 KB
rapiclnt: 115.90 KB
poutlook.exe: 47.90 KB
SDDaemon.exe: 47.90 KB
MemMaid.exe: 23.90 KB
shfind.exe: 19.90 KB
srvtrust.exe: 7.90 KB
NK.EXE: 0 Bytes
Even with these applications open. My EXEC runs fine with no slow downs.
I am happy with my EXEC. Even after 12 hours of continuous Movie playback at night, I don't feel my EXEC over heating. This thing is amazing!

page pool explanation

Hi all,
I'm trying to figure out what affect page pool sizes have on program memory. I understand that the larger the pagepool, the smaller the program ram. I understand, the larger the page pool, the "faster" the ROM operates since the pagepool is used as a pseudo-ram/cache for the OS.
However, Does anything else besides the Windows OS use the page pool memory? Can third party applications use the page pool?
Also, Because I have the HTC prophet which is known to be very limited in available RAM, I'm curious why sometimes I can't load third party input methods like calligrapher or tengo even when I have 15-20 megs of available program ram. Does the pagepool have some affect on this? This also seems linked to the today plugins since if I disable the today plugins, i can sometimes load calligrapher. Is the available ram split up between SIP (soft input panel) and today plugins vs. regular third party applications?
Thanks,

hheh 15-20 mb free ram?
man, change ROM...
btw, i never seen program, that cant be launched with 4 mb pp..
more = waste.

so a 4mb pp is best for freeing up ram for apps like calligrapher and today plugins... Does anyone know first hand whether a rom with only 4mb pp will be unbearably slow for things like loading /windows directory in file explorer?
Thanks,

I just switched to a 4MB PP on my Herald from a 12MB one. So far I am very happy. The amount of time is took to access the Windows folder was cut by more than 5sec. It only takes 3seconds max to load it up now.

thanks for http://www.roguegovernment.com/, and your avatar, God bless Canada.

neptune said:
I just switched to a 4MB PP on my Herald from a 12MB one. So far I am very happy. The amount of time is took to access the Windows folder was cut by more than 5sec. It only takes 3seconds max to load it up now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait, What??
Reducing the pagepool will *increase* performance? not decrease it?
Isn't there a trade off at some point? I thought reducing the pp will decrease performance but increase program ram?

nothin said:
thanks for http://www.roguegovernment.com/, and your avatar, God bless Canada.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Canada aint such a saint either but I'll take it over the US anyday. Did you know that some of the worst scientific tests from Project MKUltra were carried out in Canada under order from the American Military.These two governments go hand in hand. All the unwilling Canadian participants were drugged with LSD, run through ElectroSchock, and a whole load of sad experiments. I could go on all day about Government corruption, but when it comes down to it I'm all against it; and the only way to win a "war" against the government is by spreading the word of its wrong doings. SO whoever reads this thread pass this website along.
WWW.roguegovernment.com
ps: I know this ain't about PPC's but spread the word.
pps: if you havent already watch documentary Loose Change, then I'm sure that this website will be on your bookmark list.

mr_yellow said:
Wait, What??
Reducing the pagepool will *increase* performance? not decrease it?
Isn't there a trade off at some point? I thought reducing the pp will decrease performance but increase program ram?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on your definition of peformance. Reducing page pool will speed up a few things on your device, it may also slow down a few things. However if you benchmark your device on sktools or similar then you will notice that greater page pool gives marginly better results.
Given that it is very simple to alter page pool I suggest that those wondering about the effects of page pool trial different page pool values and then note the subtle differences until they find a compromise.

mr_yellow said:
Hi all,
I'm trying to figure out what affect page pool sizes have on program memory. I understand that the larger the pagepool, the smaller the program ram. I understand, the larger the page pool, the "faster" the ROM operates since the pagepool is used as a pseudo-ram/cache for the OS.
However, Does anything else besides the Windows OS use the page pool memory? Can third party applications use the page pool?
Also, Because I have the HTC prophet which is known to be very limited in available RAM, I'm curious why sometimes I can't load third party input methods like calligrapher or tengo even when I have 15-20 megs of available program ram. Does the pagepool have some affect on this? This also seems linked to the today plugins since if I disable the today plugins, i can sometimes load calligrapher. Is the available ram split up between SIP (soft input panel) and today plugins vs. regular third party applications?
Thanks,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wm5 had problems with multiple SIPs which has been sorted out in WM6,
if you are still on wm5 upgrade to wm6...if you have wm6 and still have this problem then try searching for PQIIz and if possible change your rom

Hi All,
Thanks for all the new replies. It really helps!
Concerning wm5 vs wm6: I am running a wm6 rom, in fact it's a rom built on the latest available build of wm6 so as far as I know, it's "up to date". But even with running wm6, I still have problems loading third party SIPs. Right after a reset, it's fine. But after a few hours or days of uptime, they'll fail to load. Even things like HTC phone pad (which i had to install seperately) won't load up.
Also, I can't find anything about PQIIz. As far as I can tell from the small references here and there, it's a utility that manages freeing memory and closing apps. What's the full name of this app?
Going back to the pagepool discussion: I wish I could experiement with the pagepool size but I'm no rom cook.. =( One day I'll get there.
Sigh.. back to flashing i guess. =/

mr_yellow said:
Hi All,
Going back to the pagepool discussion: I wish I could experiement with the pagepool size but I'm no rom cook.. =( One day I'll get there.
Sigh.. back to flashing i guess. =/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you do not need to cook to change.. just hexedit nbf..
btw, freeing mem app - oxios memory module hibernate.
About Canada and USA - Canada never destroyed other country, you know..(end of OT).

Someone (somewhere in one of these forums) mentioned that Microsoft's recommended "optimal" pagepool size was 4.5MB. I just assumed there had to be something wrong with that since my Dell Axim's OEM roms were set to 12MB pagepools. But perhaps there is some basis for a 4.5MB pagepool. I guess I will try it one of these days and see--unless someone else has already tried it on an Axim (X50v) and can give me an idea of performance results.

i would guess that ms dont have an optimal general pagepool
as it would depend on the transfer speed of the storage
compared to the speed of the ram

Rudegar said:
i would guess that ms dont have an optimal general pagepool
as it would depend on the transfer speed of the storage
compared to the speed of the ram
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the best thing still is just to try several different pagepool sizes and pick the one that seems to have the most even balance of speed between various tasks/programs?

Does the process for changing the page pool size depend on the device? I found these instructions for changing pagepool for wizard roms:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=ChangingPagePoolofWizardWM6Roms
Are there any other factors I need to take into account before manually modifying a custom rom I did not build?

quick bump...
I'm still confused about the affects of pagepool and speed of OS and amount of program ram...
So my rom has 8mb pp. loading /windows takes only 4 seconds. I also get problems loading calligrapher, phonepad, and today plugins. I've had other roms with i think 12mb pp. loadinig /windows takes like 8-10 seconds with that and I don't recall any problems with loading 3rd party input method. I don't think i've ever tried a 4mb pp rom.
So from what I've experienced.
12mb pp:
slower OS (loading /windows is slow)
can load more input methods and today plugins
less program ram???
8mb pp:
faster OS (loading /windows is fast)
can NOT load more input methods and today plugins
more program ram?
4mb pp:
faster OS (loading /windows is ???)???
can NOT load more input methods and today plugins???
most program ram???

I have set the pagepool on my Diamond to 0Mb - very fast for all tasks. I used the tool in this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=323269
But I am confused still. In the above linked thread they talk of 0mb being the fastest, but you guys are talking about more than 0mb. A very steep learning curve for me

http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2005/11/17/494177.aspx
that should help you

The Page Pool
Applications use RAM in two ways. There is code that runs, and there is data that is created while it is running. On a NOR device, the code can run directly from the ROM and not be loaded into RAM first. This process is called XIP (eXecute In Place). NAND devices can't XIP, so their code is loaded into RAM and executed from there. If you don't have a Page Pool, this code is loaded into normal RAM. The Page Pool is a mechanism to limit how much code is loaded into normal RAM. With a Page Pool, we can unload code that hasn't been used in a while and reload it later if we need to. We can't do that without a Page Pool.
On a typical NAND-based WM5 device, the Page Pool is 4.5M.
Taken from here.

i seen, a couple of roms that had a pagepool editor in the zip file

attach to today process and services

Compared with OS like windows xp, window mobile is limited with max process around 30. when it is reached to this figure, the os will kill one or more to keep this limit.
So does anyone know if it is possible to create a program by using the way like attaching to today (should be shell.exe I think) or using services to keep the number of process low? and is there any limitation by using such ways?

Well actually the number is not 'around 30' it is exactly 32 according to WM documentation.
But you rarely reach this number due to other considerations.
Still there are some things that do not count as a process, namely DLLs.
You can create a today plugin or a service DLL.
The limitation for services would be the size of the virtual memory slot they occupy.

Thanks, the number 30 is based on my experience. I have tried to open 100 processes by mortscript and in the end, only 30 or less was survived on my wm6 device. This figure is even smaller for my wm2003se device, it is just around 20.
I am really waiting for wm7, so I can run as many program as I like without considering any program being killed by the OS.

mic2007 said:
Compared with OS like windows xp, window mobile is limited with max process around 30. when it is reached to this figure, the os will kill one or more to keep this limit.
So does anyone know if it is possible to create a program by using the way like attaching to today (should be shell.exe I think) or using services to keep the number of process low? and is there any limitation by using such ways?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi! You should take a look here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=235792
What you need is PerformCallback4 function which is undocumented (excluded from SDK) but still exists there.
Thank you!

mic2007 said:
I am really waiting for wm7, so I can run as many program as I like without considering any program being killed by the OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One thing to keep in mind is this: each process takes up system resources (real memory, virtual memory, GDI, etc)
32 is the max system managing capability and that includes processes run by the system not just the ones you start.
The reason you got the low (and different) numbers is most likely because your device ran out of memory before you reached the quota or there were processes running in background you were not aware of.
While the promise of running more than 32 processes on WM 7 architecture is nice we can only hope it will be accompanied by more than 64MB of RAM or it will be pretty useless...

Yes, low memory is another factor that the OS kill one or more processes to free up resources. Supposedly WM7 is based on CE 6 kernel that should allow storage card to be used as RAM, if that is the case which means the distance between desktop and handheld device will be much closer.

Using SD as RAM is about the last thing you want to do!
I have not heard of this feature but even the fastest cards (assuming the device will have a faster bus to support these speeds) are too slow to act as RAM.
Or perhaps you are referring to using it as swap space like the hard drive on a PC? That can work but speed would still be sacrificed.

Video of the ROM for Polaris PDAVIET Wm6.1 1.28.61.02

Enjoy yourself, i've to use a Creative Commons song for copyright questions :
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=elOj_FFwkvI
And i've to citate the singer : Dj's Team Project - [email protected] Generation -- Jamendo - MP3 VBR 192k - 2007.10.23 [www.jamendo.com]

I saw that the oxios hibernate was installed in the rom?! I have tried to install that to, but it not free up memory att all. Can someone explain that to me?
oxios hibernate installs OK

I found this description of Oxios :
Oxios Hibernate attempts to release as much memory as possible without damaging the internal state of the Windows Mobile device (Pocket PC or Smartphone).
Oxios CloseApps closes down other applications by sending "Close" messages.

I was interested in if the Oxios realy works right on Polaris, I now what the software does.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=368086
When a had the Trinity this software worked as it should

I'm trying in this moment and it seems to release a very little quantity of memory.

polaris has large amount of RAM , don't need stuff like oxios.

omaga said:
I was interested in if the Oxios realy works right on Polaris, I now what the software does.
When a had the Trinity this software worked as it should
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is true that it does not work correctly with Polaris. I use the FreeUp RAM of SKTools. It works really great.

omaga said:
...free up memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not an easy one to get, because you have been educated for years of the exact opposite, but I hope I'm able to make all you guys understand:
it is NOT wise to free up RAM. This sounds illogical, but think about it: the purpose of RAM is to have a fast memory available which holds currently running and recently used programs. The probably easiest way to make you understand why its bull to clean up the RAM:
if you "empty" the RAM, 1st of all you do an almost complete write-cycle on the whole RAM which is bad for the hardware itself, it wears out over time
2ndly you wipe the applications you are about to use out of the RAM, so they have to be loaded again from slow memory (eg. ROM) so performance decreases, that what you don't want to happen you actually MAKE it happen...
3rdly RAM is so fast in handling the stuff loaded, you wouldn't notice any load/unload operations in the background
So summed up on the example of Windows Vista: You have learnt over the years, alot of free RAM is important. I agree, with "old" Operating Systems, especially Microsofts, it was. Mainly because they had a totally useless RAM management...
Now with Vista it's different and that Vista uses A LOT of RAM is actually a good thing, not a bad thing. It fills up the RAM with recently used applications, often used applications and applications you might use in the near future to be IMMEDIATELY ready. This actually IS THE PURPOSE OF RAM, "empty" RAM is a useless thing. And if your injection would be: but if the RAM is full, there's no space for an application I use the first time! Right, my answer: the application has to be loaded from HD and the RAM is freed up much more quicker than the EXE can be read from the HD.
The same concept applies to Windows Mobile. And to be honest, the Polaris has so much RAM, why even bother!