Database Users

A-GPS software for Trinity?!?

Hi!
I see that the P3300 uses software to enable A-GPS no its device. Any1 go the software for Trinity as well?
I think the software developer is: http://www.globallocate.com/

unready said:
Hi!
I see that the P3300 uses software to enable A-GPS no its device. Any1 go the software for Trinity as well?
I think the software developer is: http://www.globallocate.com/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whatever software you put in your phone, A-GPS will only work if your operator supports it in their network. As far as I know as of today no operator in Europe has commercially deployed A-GPS.

anonimo said:
Whatever software you put in your phone, A-GPS will only work if your operator supports it in their network. As far as I know as of today no operator in Europe has commercially deployed A-GPS.
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That´s not true and the question is right. I am also looking for a software solution. The application on the 3300 just needed a Internet connection and get´s the information about the satellites from there. so you get a much faster GPS fix. we were all using it on the 3300 - in germany, austria and italy. Would be great having it also for the trinity

symobay said:
That´s not true and the question is right. I am also looking for a software solution. The application on the 3300 just needed a Internet connection and get´s the information about the satellites from there. so you get a much faster GPS fix. we were all using it on the 3300 - in germany, austria and italy. Would be great having it also for the trinity
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you explain how A-GPS can work if you can't access your operator's core network elements such as the SMLC (Serving Mobile Location Centre)?
Read this article and specifically the caption for picture 2:
http://www.gpsworld.com/gpsworld/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=12287

Sorry for the unrelated question but does anyone know any GPS software that has a Today Screen plugin for neatly displaying location info/stats on the Today Screen?

GPS to be unlocked by Sprint in Q4

I was told by my friend who works at Sprint today that they will be unlocking the GPS in Quarter 4 of this year.
She said that originally they did not unlock it as they were having issues with the hardware and software, but are prepping to unlock it soon to us.
Sorry if this has been put out there already, but thought I would share what I heard. hopeful anyway, huh?

Is this guy a reliable source of info? Or is he a rep who hears stuff through the grapevine like the rest of us? (I've heard some crazy misunderstood info coming from people who "work for sprint")
Over at ppcgeeks.com someone dissasembled their Mogul and the general conclusion was that the GPS had been disabled via hardware, although they admit they're not sure.
The rumor also was that it would be available to us with the Rev A update due to come out soon. Although no one knew for sure where this info came from. Could be someone made it up, wishful thinking.
So, yes, this rumor has been around, but we're still waiting for someone to actually confirm it.
Honestly, I'll beleive it when I see it.

Dishe said:
Is this guy a reliable source of info? Or is he a rep who hears stuff through the grapevine like the rest of us? (I've heard some crazy misunderstood info coming from people who "work for sprint")
Over at ppcgeeks.com someone dissasembled their Mogul and the general conclusion was that the GPS had been disabled via hardware, although they admit they're not sure.
The rumor also was that it would be available to us with the Rev A update due to come out soon. Although no one knew for sure where this info came from. Could be someone made it up, wishful thinking.
So, yes, this rumor has been around, but we're still waiting for someone to actually confirm it.
Honestly, I'll beleive it when I see it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This person is a software engineer at Sprint, and she said that the reason they didn't have it unlocked in the beginning was due to a hardware/software conflict, but that it will be unlocked in an upcoming ROM update. She said that Sprint had announced it somewhere internally.

I have a few contacts in sprint, I'll try verifying this tommorow

From what I understand, the Mogul has A-GPS. This is the same GPS that allows them to find you if you make an emergency call. It does not work off sattelites but rather from cell towers.
On the bright side, it shares the same Qualcomm 7200 chip that the Kaiser will use.
Some maintain that the Kaiser has built in GPS, others claim it has no satellite antenna and requires an external antenna.
Sprint originally advertised the phone as having GPS. Now that has been removed from their advertisement.
It will be ineresting to see what will happen with the evdo rev. a upgrade later this year.

rambo6 said:
From what I understand, the Mogul has A-GPS. This is the same GPS that allows them to find you if you make an emergency call. It does not work off sattelites but rather from cell towers.
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Exactly. The bottom line from what I understand is that the Mogul does not have the built-in hardware to do full GPS that will work with independent mapping software (Google, etc).

[RANT]This is getting a bit old - people claiming that A-GPS does not work off satellites.
Please do some research before posting this type of mis-information.
A-GPS is Assisted GPS. It uses information from the cellular network to ASSIST the GPS for faster TTFF.
And the Mogul uses a different chipset than the Kaiser. One uses the 7200, while the other 7500.[/RANT]

Ok... so now that you ranted... is it your opinion that the Mogul will or will not be able to do full GPS?
And actually.... A-GPS doesn't directly work off of the satellites. Since it takes a long time for a cell phone device to download the positioning data from the GPS satellites, what the A-GPS system does is let the A-GPS servers at the cell towers download and accumulate the data, the cell phones then talk to the A-GPS servers to get the data (which happens within seconds).

When A-GPS is enabled, would it have the possibility to work with Mobile GMaps ? Or is the Java still restricted?

Don't we have A-GPS already enabled? Isn't that the little GPS icon in the phone dialer? I know I have the option to turn it off/on in the phone settings just like all other agps handsets.
If something is going to be "enabled" with a new update, that means it will most likely be real standalone GPS.
TC1, no one knows that for sure. It was speculated.

I AM POSTING THIS FOR THE LAST TIME
The Mogul has the Qualcomm msm7500 as its cpu. BUILT INTO the cpu is the gpsone chipset. This is able to achieve AGPS as well as GPS. It runs in 4 different modes. To have the serial link to work with applications the chipset must be run in standalone mode.
It is on the damn phone as it is part of the cpu! It is currently not in standalone mode so there is no way to access the chip. The only true thing up in the air is whether or not the phone can obtain a satellite lock in standalone mode.

Dishe said:
Don't we have A-GPS already enabled? Isn't that the little GPS icon in the phone dialer? I know I have the option to turn it off/on in the phone settings just like all other agps handsets.
If something is going to be "enabled" with a new update, that means it will most likely be real standalone GPS.
TC1, no one knows that for sure. It was speculated.
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Click to collapse
Correct, like almost every modern cell phone, A-GPS is enabled. There is no debate there.
I agree with you regarding speculation on the "stand-alone GPS" aspect. I've never seen definitive info from HTC that says yes or no on this subject. If there is real info regarding this, some links would be nice.

HTC's site says:
It is widely rumored that this phone has a GPS chip that has been disabled. Will there be a hack or workaround to enable GPS capabilities?
Answer: Not likely, it is AGPS which requires a connected call to get data location.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Sonix6 said:
HTC's site says:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats from their wiki site, so its not necessarily true
/me keeps fingers crossed

This would be good news. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for this.

gpsone (in most all msm chipsets including kaiser and mogul):
How gpsOne Works:
The gpsOne technology functions in four different modes of operation. Chosen automatically or specified by software, the
four modes are Standalone GPS, Mobile Station (MS)-based, MS-assisted and MS-assisted/Hybrid. In the A-GPS modes,
gpsOne technology utilizes assistance data from a location server in the wireless network in combination with A-GPS circuitry
and software in the wireless device.
Note: The common term used by standards bodies for the handset/terminal device in CDMA2000 is "Mobile Station" (MS) and in WCDMA (UMTS)/GPRS/GSM/HSDPA/EDGE is
“User Equipment” (UE). For simplicity in this document, references to the handset/terminal will be "MS," but this use implies both MS and UE.
Standalone GPS: The GPS receiver calculates a position without using any assistance data and without a connection to
the wireless network.
MS-Based: The GPS receiver calculates the position using assistance data from a location server to increase cold-start
sensitivity and reduce the start time for an initial position calculation.
MS-Assisted: The GPS receiver uses assistance data from a location server to make measurements related to its distance
from the GPS satellites, then sends this information to the location server where the position is calculated. This mode also
increases cold start sensitivity and reduces the start time for an initial position calculation.
MS-Assisted/Hybrid: Wireless network information is added to GPS measurements as part of the position calculation by
the location server, integrating the relative strengths of GPS information and available wireless network location information
for increased positioning reliability in difficult GPS environments.
In assisted operation, a gpsOne-enabled handset receives
a small “assistance data” message from a network location
server using standardized protocols
• The handset then reads information from GPS satellites to
measure its distance from all the satellites it can see (called
“ranging” information).
• The handset then uses this ranging information to create a
position “fix,” or sends the ranging information back to the
server where it can be combined with network information
to produce an even better fix.
• gpsOne also operates in Standalone mode, without requiring
any assistance data from the network
straight from the gpsOne document.

interesting indeed... question is, will Sprint release firmware that allows it to run in standalone mode?
I suppose the truth is, even if it doesn't, someone can figure out how to enable it with some sort of hack eventually since its just software controlled according to this document.

has anyone played with this reg key?
\HKCU\ControlPanel\PhoneExtendFunction\CDMA\GPSOneSetting = 0
Edit: the value does not contain a space between "GPSOne" and "Setting", but vbulletin modifies my text when i post....

I don't know if this info helps or not... I spoke to a HTC TS and they told me the 6800 has GPS but is sprint decision to enable it or not. He also told me that it can be unlock but sprint is the only one with the code and he can not provide me with that info.

New poster old reader, may be found some info.
I found Many info that may me can help somebodies about the msm 7500 (gpsOne technologie)...It is hard to know what to believe 'cause half/half
people say that this is impossible, and the other half say that gonna happen soon. I think that we should make our own idea by our own knowledge . I found many topic on many forum (htc, gpsunderground,here...ask me if interressed) One Qualcomm offical site i've got pdf about msm chips, and gpsOne tech... (Snap track location service for gpsOne may be a good start point to invest)
Interessing link's:
FCC test repport for tita100 (titan) (That include plane mode settings):
https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas...lledFromFrame=N&application_id=391628&fcc_id=
Here it seem to be codes:
http://www.wlt.net.cn/index0/FD-800/pdf/CNI FD-800 gpsOne Menual ver1 0_0117.pdf
Similar:
http://www.wlt.net.cn/index0/FD-800/pdf/FD-800_Application_Guide ver1 0(1).pdf
And found other about SDK from Qualcomm API's seem to be aivalaible to third party dev. Also seem to be hard to be registred as dev. But hope...
And if internal budies have code it is just a time question before a solution.
So i wish that i'm not making more mistake or false info...if tell me.
And for gps freak who will tell that different anthenna needed, diffrent frequencies for GPS...see the end of the document FD-800 manual (2nd link).
So thank for this helpfull forum, forgive my poor english expression, and lack of programming knoledge , my is disignig pcb, and electrical pannels, but not to programme them's( not enough )...

Ways to locate current position(GPS, GPRS, SMS-locating etc)

I'm trying to develope an application for my Trinity, and I'm currently thinking of implementing a GPS function to track down my current position.
But: I've heard there also are other metods to find out your position, by triangling the GSM-bases, using GPRS-position(???) and also, I've seen a service that uses SMS(??? It says you can send a SMS to a server, and it will find out where you are...=)
Now, which one of these are pure misunderstandings, and which one does work?
I've heard of a application that that uses GSM-bases to triangling the position, and it actually works...
So my second part is, anyone knows how to implement this is C# ?

It can be done...
neofix said:
I've heard there also are other metods to find out your position, by triangling the GSM-bases, using GPRS-position(???)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't help you on how to do it, but I know an app that does. Google Maps works this way. It finds my location within about 1Km using GPRS. I don't have GSP on my phone. It only works is some locations. For example, at my house (in a rural area) it doesn't work. I am guessing this is either because I have only one base providing service, or that base is missing certain features.
Good luck on finding a solution to implement this. It can be done somehow.

PhilD41 said:
I can't help you on how to do it, but I know an app that does. Google Maps works this way. It finds my location within about 1Km using GPRS. I don't have GSP on my phone. It only works is some locations. For example, at my house (in a rural area) it doesn't work. I am guessing this is either because I have only one base providing service, or that base is missing certain features.
Good luck on finding a solution to implement this. It can be done somehow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great, that means that there is actually something called GPRS-positioning, now the 10 billion dollar question is how to implement this

Yes, the Google Maps "location" feature works well for me in USA. It locates the nearest cel towers to my device...good luck with your project.

i don't know about GPRS-positioning, but i do know for sure that Google Maps doesn't use it like PhilD41 said, Google Maps tries to figure out your location using cell phone towers around you. Cell Tower Triangulation, i think is the term. you can search that term and see how to implement it

Azimuth21 said:
i don't know about GPRS-positioning, but i do know for sure that Google Maps doesn't use it like PhilD41 said, Google Maps tries to figure out your location using cell phone towers around you. Cell Tower Triangulation, i think is the term. you can search that term and see how to implement it
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Click to collapse
Oh right then - Been trying to search bit for Cell Tower Triangulation, and found some interesting threads- unfortunatly for me, nonen that describes how to actually triangulate though But so far, I'm very thankfull for all the replies here

here is how it works:
http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/publications/Thesis/node12.html
and Iphone has already similar software... so if you want to back engineer it: http://technology.slashgeo.org/technology/08/01/03/0440258.shtml

mahsoud said:
here is how it works:
http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/publications/Thesis/node12.html
and Iphone has already similar software... so if you want to back engineer it: http://technology.slashgeo.org/technology/08/01/03/0440258.shtml
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe! Now, just to find a way to implement this... Still haven't managed to get any closer to a soultion... :|

Navizon Virtual GPS
Check this out, this program already does what you want:
http://www.navizon.com/navizon_v-gps.asp
It has tracking by gps and virtual gps (gsm bases, wifi)
Hope this helps!
Greetz Bas

neofix said:
I've heard there also are other metods to find out your position, by triangling the GSM-bases
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're thinking of Assisted GPS. You operator and cell towers' equipement needs to support this for it to work.

rev3nant said:
I think you're thinking of Assisted GPS. You operator and cell towers' equipement needs to support this for it to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi! Thanks for the reply, I belive this is something else then assisted GPS... Since the A-GPS, as you said needs a A-GPS server on the operator-side, while triangulation only needs three cell towers.... (Less accuracy, but still)

bas.bootsveld said:
Check this out, this program already does what you want:
http://www.navizon.com/navizon_v-gps.asp
It has tracking by gps and virtual gps (gsm bases, wifi)
Hope this helps!
Greetz Bas
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply!
This is the kind of feature I want to implement, but I need to find out how to do this in coding...

Hi,
some interesting for you i hope.
As far as I can work out GoogleMaps uses the navizon database to triangulate your position. Navizon uses freely donates gps+wifi data.
Here's my slightly informed opinion, from best to worst
connected/Inbuilt GPS: most accurate u will get
Navizon: probably as good as AGPS but i think better as it triangulates on phone mast details and (if u have wifi built in) wifi router details (see website for this cool feature)
A-GPS: next most accurate you will get.
No such thing as SMS/GPRS location. This is in fact a service provided by companies who use a mobile phone operators databases to triangulate your position (API licenses cost between £500 and £2000 in UK PER operator!!!) . So not much better than AGPS but a method (with a cost).
Can you do this in c#? yes. download Visual Studio 2008 90-day trial edition and you'll find a GPS application ready and waiting. Its a bit buggy but a g8 starting point.
If you simply want to get gps position for an app without having to code anything, you might want to wait a little and download my next GPSSpot application. It will save the current GPS position to a registry key for other apps to use.

seanpu1 said:
Hi,
some interesting for you i hope.
As far as I can work out GoogleMaps uses the navizon database to triangulate your position. Navizon uses freely donates gps+wifi data.
Here's my slightly informed opinion, from best to worst
connected/Inbuilt GPS: most accurate u will get
Navizon: probably as good as AGPS but i think better as it triangulates on phone mast details and (if u have wifi built in) wifi router details (see website for this cool feature)
A-GPS: next most accurate you will get.
No such thing as SMS/GPRS location. This is in fact a service provided by companies who use a mobile phone operators databases to triangulate your position (API licenses cost between £500 and £2000 in UK PER operator!!!) . So not much better than AGPS but a method (with a cost).
Can you do this in c#? yes. download Visual Studio 2008 90-day trial edition and you'll find a GPS application ready and waiting. Its a bit buggy but a g8 starting point.
If you simply want to get gps position for an app without having to code anything, you might want to wait a little and download my next GPSSpot application. It will save the current GPS position to a registry key for other apps to use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow! Nice reply sir!
But this really starts to stirr around my noodles - since I have a Iphone here, without a GPS, and it can give me a +- 100/200 m accuracy on where I'm using cell tower triangulation...
When it comes to the GPS-part, I've coded it finished, so I'm just so curious on how the author has done it... Is it using some sort of cell-tower location database? Hmm... I've tried to mail the developer, but without luck
But, when it comes to my app, I think NaviZone is the way to go...

if iPhone has wifi (which i believe it does) Navizone is the way forward. It will consume more power as your wifi has to be on. But it will only work in areas that have been "surveyed" by donating users.
(btw its also good to find local free hot-spots/unblocked wifi routers)
btw, cell-tower location databases have a VERY wide range in accuracy. Firstly its dependent on the accuracy of the cell knowing its own GPS position (big discussion came to my mind on how interesting that is, but I'll leave this out for now). Then dependent on the number of cells used in the calculation (the more cells the better.) So, inner city regions get fair to good accuracy, but out in the country accuracy drops to >1000m radius.
I'd be interested to know what the iPhone is like for accuracy out in the sticks, and whether they use NaviZone or a similar service.

blackstone is a real GPS ?

may be a dumb question.
Is blackstone has a GPS (not AGPS) ?
ie. without a sim phone card , it can still receive GPS signal for mapking ?

It's a real GPS, works great with, for example TomTom.

yes gps works without a sim card. agps is also available through registry settings but requires a Data connection.

lots of people seem to think that aGPS is a cheap substitute for normal gps
but thats not the case aGPS is normal gps plus the ability to get locations
from cellphone towers if one can't get a clear gps signal like if one enters
a long tunnel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_Phone

aGPS is often mistaken as location-based service (LBS) or server-based GPS. mainly because the first generation of "Quick GPS" is also known as AGPS, which essentially is to download the satellite orbit path in advance instead of get it directly from the satellites at the point the receiver is trying to get a fix. The download process (receiving it from satellite) can be a lengthy process (30sec or longer depending on the reception level) thus the purpose of QGPS/AGPS.
I wrote a short article on the myth about AGPS, you can take a read if you are interested

Does anyone know what GPS chip is actually in the Touch HD? Is it a Sirf III? Is Static Navigation "ON" by default?

gregwee said:
Is it a Sirf III?
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Click to collapse
No, it isn't. GPS is integrated in the MSM chip, I think its called something like Qualcomm MSM7201A gpsOne.

zenkinz said:
aGPS is often mistaken as location-based service (LBS) or server-based GPS. mainly because the first generation of "Quick GPS" is also known as AGPS, which essentially is to download the satellite orbit path in advance instead of get it directly from the satellites at the point the receiver is trying to get a fix. The download process (receiving it from satellite) can be a lengthy process (30sec or longer depending on the reception level) thus the purpose of QGPS/AGPS.
I wrote a short article on the myth about AGPS, you can take a read if you are interested
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks very much ..

thanks all for explaining ...

A-Gps Question

I was just wondering what it is, as my orange rom had it before i unlocked and de-branded, is it usefull to me as my gps seems to be working fine without it. even when i had it it wroked better when it was disabled i think.
anyone know ?
Thanks

Would like to help.. but sorry, I do not quite understand your problem.

not so much a problem just wondering. il try and put it another way
before i debranded my orange branded jade, i had 2 options relating to gps, one was QuickGPS , thats still in the branded rom.
in the orange rom it had QuickGPS and another setting called A-GPS, just wondered what the second one was for as its not in the offical htc rom

As I have understood HTC pages :
"Quick GPS for Pocket PC from the HTC Corporation is included in the Windows Mobile 6 cusom build. Quick GPS can speed up the amount of time for determining a users GPS position by downloading the latest satellite information via an Internet Connection (such as GPRS, ActiveSync, etc). Quick GPS is intended for use in conjunction with Telenav but will provide the same experience if a customer is using another GPS Solution. "
And Wiki concerning A-GPS:
"An A-GPS system can address these problems in several ways, using an assistance server or other data from a network".
Quick GPS = A-GPS since both use the same principle i.e. downloading info about satellites via internet through GPRS, Wi-Fi if available etc.

Kajmaj said:
Quick GPS = A-GPS since both use the same principle i.e. downloading info about satellites via internet through GPRS, Wi-Fi if available etc.
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Click to collapse
i thought as much, those crazy orange people having two programs for the same thing lol thanks for clearing that up

I believe it's not equivalent.
For what I understand, Quick GPS uses general satellite tables, which are downloaded every week.
The a-gps is more precise : you download the satellite tables which are calculated for the BTS (radio antenna) you are connected to, so it is very precise. It's quite impressive: wherever I am, I am able to get a cold fix in 10 to 15 seconds..
Well it's what I have understood of the system....

hello friend i have 3 htc jade 100 blocke in phone off ( telephone desactivé)
when i fin this htc . i flash with rom from web site www.htc.com
i trey to active but stell the sam problemm
how to fix this problemme plz help

xsat2010 said:
hello friend i have 3 htc jade 100 blocke in phone off ( telephone desactivé)
when i fin this htc . i flash with rom from web site www.htc.com
i trey to active but stell the sam problemm
how to fix this problemme plz help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think you should start by creating a new thread in the right section
could be a problem with the radio rom or a hardware problem

gomifromparis said:
I believe it's not equivalent.
For what I understand, Quick GPS uses general satellite tables, which are downloaded every week.
The a-gps is more precise : you download the satellite tables which are calculated for the BTS (radio antenna) you are connected to, so it is very precise. It's quite impressive: wherever I am, I am able to get a cold fix in 10 to 15 seconds..
Well it's what I have understood of the system....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
never noticed this reply last time i checked , where is my head lol
that sounds about right, as a-gps never used the data connection and in my case (on o2-uk using a orange rom on a orange branded device) it would make sense that the a-gps data would of been avalible on the orange network and not on o2, and thats why i could not get a fix with it enabled
thanks for the precise answer gomifromparis