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Hey, my S200 shows unusual battery drainage behaviour. it seems like if the battery empties to fast. I have the newest DOPOD rom and some programs like Pocket plus, diary and weather running.
Let me give you an example, If I have just finished charing the device and it displays a battery charge of 100% I unplug it and 1 minute later it goes down by 1% to 99 - an additional minute and the battery meter displays 98. By the end of the day i seem to have a charge of maybe 40% while using the device for maybe 1 hour intensly and the rest just phone standby with maybe 2 calls of 2 min avrg length.
On top i noticed that the left side of the device gets a littel warm when I am using the device extensively or charging it. Is that also normal?
Whats the deal with my device? i dont know a whole lot about pda's. Is that a normal power consumption?
How can I measure if my device performs well in terms of CPU speed because I have the feeling it also runs slow.
Thanks a lot
Similar to my S200. When I tried to use S200 with my old O2 XDA mini's battery, everything is OK. Battery of S200 has problem ???
I am not sure ? anyone has experience ?
The idea of this post is to make a statistic research about the battery drain problem. Maybe this will make us understand the cause of the battery problems -since I couldn't find something that solved the battery problems of all users.
I have checked these posts (and some others)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=295191
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=287165
and the "Battery SOLVED" topic
There are 3 solutions (they are post in Faria Wiki)
-One is mess with the keys
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Comm\AsyncMac1\Parms]
...
-Another is mess with the key
HKLM/Drivers/SDCARD/ClientDrivers/Class/SDMemory_Class/DisablePowerManagement
-And a third solution is to Flash a ROM with FULL battery & let it drain comletelly afterwards.
---------------------------------------
Using the "battery status"today add-on I can say this:
The first time I installed faria 3.3 ROM I had huge memory drain problems
I notised that even in stand-by my phone "ate" about 124mA
The registry memory tweaks didn't change this much - maybe 118mA.
The battery in this codition lasted at most 18hours...
I reflashed Faria3.3 with the mobile FULLY charged,let it discharge fully and now I have 84mA consuption if phone goes to sleep and 97mA when not used. Now battery lasts about 48hours without much usage.
With the [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Comm\AsyncMac1\Parms] etc keys changed and with manually shutting down the Wireless Monitor Service(WMS7) was 42mA .
Note: I have Faria3.3 ROM & GSM 2.19 .
In another mobile phone I checked, with 2.17 OS rom & GSM 2.06.10 radio, I see that the when phone is not used the battery drain is 24mA !!!!!
This phone does NOT have the registry tweaks enabled and even with backlight it still stays in 24mA..
Please, post your mA consumption here and say what you have enabled.
Btw, anyone knows why Wireless Monitor Service(WMS7 was enabled (started) even though I have turned off WiFI,bluetooth & IRDA?
152mA, was ALOT higher when i had 5+ programs running, around 200
I have Faria's WM6 and run about 57mA in standby, 125 during normal operations.
Here is my first contribute to this outstanding forum.
Hope this is usefull insearch of the power drain on some devices.
Note:
My phone does NOT have the powermanagement registry tweaks enabled.
And is an clean install with the Faria WM6 (The real Thing) rom.
So there ain't much running.
Just ordered Wisbar Advanced + desktop so hope to see more readings later this week after fully fine tuning my device.
My device
Orange SPV - M3000 Faria WWE WM6 (G3 Unlocked)
IPL/SPL: 2.26
Radio: 2.61.11
ROM: 2.18.0.0
OC: CpuScaler - 130<->273mhz By BatteryStatus
Startup Services
CapNotify
SIPChange (Resco Keyboard)
Startclean
Today Plugins
BatteryStatus incl Tray applet
Running Hardware
Bluetooth= off
GPRS= off
Radio= on
WiFi= off
IR= off
Power drain Bat= 100% charged
Wakeup: 70mA (after 5 <-> 10 minutes)
Softreset: 258mA
Hardreset: 350mA
Standby + 50% backlight: 302mA
After charging: (and pulling the plug out) 180 -> 250 mA
All readings do not change until i manualy interrupt the current status off my device.
I mean if my device after wakeup says 219mA the reading does not change even when i run different software apps.
Even if the CpuScaler clocked 130mhz the reading will not change.
I think that BatteryStatus is broken or something else is interfearing with the readings.
i went from 175mA to 125mA... just by going from 0 to 1 with the next tweak:
HKLM/Drivers/SDCARD/ClientDrivers/Class/SDMemory_Class/DisablePowerManagement
i use Fario's rom..
trying other tweaks now..
ok:
so without doing anything it just suddenly dropt back to 64mA.... :\
ok:
booting takes 280mA
I recommend not to use these ::: they sucked out my battery even more.. from 125 to 247
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Comm\AsyncMac1\Parms]
"DisablePowerManagement"=dword:1
Change to
"DisablePowerManagement"=dword:0
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Comm\Irsir1\Parms]
"DisablePowerManagement"=dword:1
Change to
"DisablePowerManagement"=dword:0
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Comm\PPTP1\Parms]
"DisablePowerManagement"=dword:1
Change to
"DisablePowerManagement"=dword:0
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Comm\L2TP1\Parms]
"DisablePowerManagement"=dword:1
Change to
"DisablePowerManagement"=dword:0
Today i did made two changes on my device and noticed the following.
First i updated my Radio rom from 2.19.11 to 2.61.11. (No errors everything works fine)
I just wanted a better radio because the signal strengh overhere is verry bad.
This update has on my device an nice site effect.
Powerdrain dropped by several mA.
Wakeup: 61mA (after 5 <-> 10 minutes)
Softreset: 201mA
Hardreset: 299mA
Second i messed with the key
HKLM/Drivers/SDCARD/ClientDrivers/Class/SDMemory_Class/DisablePowerManagement
I did not notice any effect on this reg tweak
I am using Wizard 100 ( Cingular 8125)
EDGE ON 24x7
Fetch mail using poutlook every 10 minis
Notification & Task Running
WiFI OFF
decient battery life: fully charged battery comes to 1.5 days..
--tux
i dont know what i did.. but its at 42mA right now.. and sins my last post.. it was @ 76% battery.. and right now its @ 75%... that means more then 12 hours have passed.. and its only down by 1 %...
last post was @ 01:30 PM...
WOW!!!!!!!!!!~!!!!!!!!!
like i said.. it took a really long time for 1 %..
but the moment i sent an sms message... it went from 75% to 71%..!!!
damnnn
Seems as if batterystatus is broken: my readings dont update either: it seems stuck at the same mA-value all the time, no matter what I do, or which clockspeed I use...
Also: the powermeter keeps at 99% (had been 83% as well); it never changes : (
My battery from 100% to drop to 99% might take 8-12 hours , then from 99% to 90% might take few hours (maybe 1-3 hours).
This seems to be normal.
I'm using the mA consumption because if you have an 1250mA battery I think this is the best unit to measure battery.
My apologies, but which program are people using to measure battery life consumption and how does one tell which program is causing the problem? In the past week, I have noticed my battery life take a nose dive and I'm wondering if it is pRSS Reader that causing my problem. I installed a power saving cab found on this forum site and I will test it tonight. Thanks for the help.
It might also be worth considering usage of GPRS, Push email, WiFi, BT, etc.
Curious D said:
My apologies, but which program are people using to measure battery life consumption and how does one tell which program is causing the problem? In the past week, I have noticed my battery life take a nose dive and I'm wondering if it is pRSS Reader that causing my problem. I installed a power saving cab found on this forum site and I will test it tonight. Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Be careful of power saving cabs. Some of them actually increase battery consumption.
I think most people are using battery status to check consumption.
BTW:
At wake up: 24-30 mA
When the phone has a signal, the consumption rate is low 24-30 mA throughout the day. When it is searching for a signal (normally at my work), the consumption is substantially grater. When I get back home the consumption goes back down to the normal 24-30 mA (I always have a signal at home).
calouro said:
BTW:
At wake up: 24-30 mA
When the phone has a signal, the consumption rate is low 24-30 mA throughout the day. When it is searching for a signal (normally at my work), the consumption is substantially grater. When I get back home the consumption goes back down to the normal 24-30 mA (I always have a signal at home).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you ever perform the antenna hack(i.e. adding xtra piece of foil) on your Wizard?
MethodMan said:
Did you ever perform the antenna hack(i.e. adding xtra piece of foil) on your Wizard?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No,
I never applied the fix.
I haven’t done enough research on the fix to justify applying it. Maybe when I get some extra time.
The signal goes in and out at work, so it's not a big deal for me!
Running an 8125 with Faria's WM5 3.3 ROM.
When I wake it up it's usually 51, or somewhere in the 50's anyway.
I just tried those powermanagement reg tweaks and had terrible results too :\
My wizard can last 3 days with moderate usage of wifi, phone calls, and movies. This happened after I followed the Battery Solved thread and reflash with official ROM and then I installed Xplore1.1. And for the first cycle after first time after fully charging overnight, I can get the 3days of continous battery life..
Since then, I have been monitoring CPU usage and it hovers around 1-5% (Battery status) when idle... Bear in mind that the current consumption value can be around 33mA to 150mA and still battery life seems to be good...
Weird but through...
calouro said:
Be careful of power saving cabs. Some of them actually increase battery consumption.
I think most people are using battery status to check consumption.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the warning. I used the power saving cab that was posted from a link at the beginning of the thread.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=295191
(Second post)
Is that one okay? I'm not sure if it worked since I used my phone alot this evening. I have the standard ROM that came with the phone back in October. Thanks.
I get the solution for Battery Performance
jtrash said:
The idea of this post is to make a statistic research about the battery drain problem. Maybe this will make us understand the cause of the battery problems -since I couldn't find something that solved the battery problems of all users.
I have checked these posts (and some others)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=295191
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=287165
and the "Battery SOLVED" topic
There are 3 solutions (they are post in Faria Wiki)
-One is mess with the keys
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Comm\AsyncMac1\Parms]
...
-Another is mess with the key
HKLM/Drivers/SDCARD/ClientDrivers/Class/SDMemory_Class/DisablePowerManagement
-And a third solution is to Flash a ROM with FULL battery & let it drain comletelly afterwards.
---------------------------------------
Using the "battery status"today add-on I can say this:
The first time I installed faria 3.3 ROM I had huge memory drain problems
I notised that even in stand-by my phone "ate" about 124mA
The registry memory tweaks didn't change this much - maybe 118mA.
The battery in this codition lasted at most 18hours...
I reflashed Faria3.3 with the mobile FULLY charged,let it discharge fully and now I have 84mA consuption if phone goes to sleep and 97mA when not used. Now battery lasts about 48hours without much usage.
With the [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Comm\AsyncMac1\Parms] etc keys changed and with manually shutting down the Wireless Monitor Service(WMS7) was 42mA .
Note: I have Faria3.3 ROM & GSM 2.19 .
In another mobile phone I checked, with 2.17 OS rom & GSM 2.06.10 radio, I see that the when phone is not used the battery drain is 24mA !!!!!
This phone does NOT have the registry tweaks enabled and even with backlight it still stays in 24mA..
Please, post your mA consumption here and say what you have enabled.
Btw, anyone knows why Wireless Monitor Service(WMS7 was enabled (started) even though I have turned off WiFI,bluetooth & IRDA?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dear,
I have upgraded my HTC Touch from WM 6.0 to 6.1. I have faced the big problem of Heavy Battery Drain. I was confused. I try to find out the solution over XDA Forum.
My problem was, "after charged 100%, then after 5-10 menutes it goes to 80%. and then it start draining very fast."
I have changed the registry for :
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Comm\AsyncMac1\Parms]
"DisablePowerManagement"=dword:1
Change to
"DisablePowerManagement"=dword:0
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Comm\Irsir1\Parms]
"DisablePowerManagement"=dword:1
Change to
"DisablePowerManagement"=dword:0
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Comm\PPTP1\Parms]
"DisablePowerManagement"=dword:1
Change to
"DisablePowerManagement"=dword:0
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Comm\L2TP1\Parms]
"DisablePowerManagement"=dword:1
Change to
"DisablePowerManagement"=dword:0
and Set the Wireless Monitor Service from Automatic to Manual.
But, I still have the same problem, why after 100% charged & after unpluged it goes to 94% thereafter 88% and within 5 menute it goes to 80%.
Thanks to the XDA Forum Members, help me out.
Mehul Patel
Hello all,
I'm using the original European rom (the first updated ROM that came out; didn't have time to install the second updated ROM )
The only program I'm running is S2U2 (slide to unlock2), the newest version.
The problem I'm experiencing is the next: The battery status from S2U2 gives a percentage of 26%, but the battery indicator from Windows Mobile (upper right corner) gives an indication of 2 Blocks (so battery more than half-full).
When I go to the settings tab, press more and have a look at the battery indicator of Windows Mobile in detailed version, I see I have only 3 green blocks left. This shows the INDICATION of S2U2 of 26% battery remaining was correct!
But the TRUE CAPACITY isnt, because:
The weirdest thing is, my battery stayed at the level of 26% remaining ALL DAY, while normally my battery goes down with about 20% a day..
The problem is situated in WM itsself I guess :s
It also isn't something that happened once, it has occurred more often...
I also shut down the phone every evening and boot it up every morning, but I never experienced any trouble with that. Even letting the battery go flat to about 3% and then a full recharge (as wel leaving the phone turned on as letting it shut down by itsself) didn't help...
Any Idea's / experience with it?
Thanks in advance,
Borai
The answer is in the information you've provided; The WM "4-bar" display shows 25% per bar. If S2U2 is showing 26%, that's over 25%, and therefore showing two bars
A small explaination:
- 4 bars = 100% - 76%
- 3 bars = 75% - 51%
- 2 bars = 50% - 26%
- 1 bar = 25% - 0%
As for the battery draining faster / slower than usual, it all depends on usage. In low signal areas the battery will drain faster as it spends more ticks trying to get a connection. Turning the screen on and off consumes battery power, using WiFi, leaving applications running in the background... Any number of causes.
Not really
At the moment I'm at 21% according to S2U2 (yes, a full day and I only used 5% battery power, not really possible I think...)
The battery indicator in the right corner still shows 2 bars... And the indicator from 'all settings' still shows 3 blocks left...
There is defenitely something strange going on, because I never really experienced this problems when the phone was brand new...
Samsung GT-T5800. Android OS 2.1-update 1, I5800XXJH1, Kernel 2.6.29 root SE-S603 #2.
The problem:
1. Battery till 50% discharges normally - about 10-15% per day, but after 50% it immediately shows 15% and asks to connect charger and phone switches off very fast. actually no chance to mane even emergency call. No 40%, no 30%, no 20% in battery level.
2. When connect phone to charger - battery charging level immediately set to 80% or every ~10 seconds: 50%, 60%, 70%, 80%. After that phone charges about 1,5-2 hours till 100% and after about 1-2hours it asks to disconnect from the charger. Battery temperature during charging and after it: 31-33C.
After 3d 8h 40min. (~80hours using applications: Battery booster and Memory Booster, no 3G) of battery usage phone switches off.
Battery usage was:
Android system: 61%
Cell Standby: 19%
Phone Idle: 12%
Bluetooth: 4%
Voice calls: 4%
Time from 15% to 5% - 15 minutes with no using the phone. Battery's temperature 20C, Voltage: 3588mV Phone switches off. I have tried 2-3 times to switch on the phone to make battery more empty and finally switched it on and at the same time connected it to charger.
Here is the interesting charging time line after phone died and was switched on to charge it (sorry - no in seconds):
0:00 - 1% - 20C/3588mV (temperature/voltage)
0:01 - 3%
0:01 - 5%
0:01 - 15%
0:02 - 15%
0:03 - 30%
0:03 - 40%
0:04 - 30%
0:05 - 15%
0:07 - 15%
0:09 - 30%
0:12 - 40%
0:14 - 30%
0:15 - 15%
0:16 - 30% - 28C/3698mV
0:18 - 40% - 28C/3718mV
0:20 - 50% - 28C/3730mV
0:21 - 40% - 28C/3727mV
0:23 - 50% - 27C/3728mV
0:36 - 60% -
0:36 - 50% - 26C/3769mV
0:37 - 60% - 26C/3774mV
0:59 - 60% - 26C/3807mV
1:24 - 60% - 26C/3807mV
2:06 - 70%
2:07 - 80% - 26C/3906mV
2:44 - 90% - 26C/3971mV
3:18 -100% - 25C/4101mV
4:03 -100% - 22C/4184mV - Asked to disconnect the charger.
After this charge GT-I5800 (with no any software changes) stoped to show 50% to 15%, but 30% disappears fast to 15% (it means one short call).
Possible that battery issue reason is that (I think) phone was charged partly switched off and partly switched on.
Maybe there are some battery level controlling OS software bugs, I do not know.
Is it official bug or issue?
Or some guru can comment that battery level issue? I saw I was not first user having it.
should be from the firmware
it seems this happening to all
Well i also have exactly the same issue...
I have observed that when i make/recieve a call the battery voltage decreases greatly because of which the battery also decreases and after sometime the battery voltage comes back to normal but NOT the battery.
My battery also drops down from 50% to 15% or 5%.....It's really very annoying...
I think that this is a frimware issue but i am not sure..I am scared that it could be a hardware issue...
Well i have mailed Samsung also regarding this issue so that they fix this issue in the next frimware upgrade and hope others also do the same so that we have a better chance of this bug getting fixed.....!!!
pravarthegreatest said:
Well i also have exactly the same issue...
I have observed that when i make/recieve a call the battery voltage decreases greatly because of which the battery also decreases and after sometime the battery voltage comes back to normal but NOT the battery.
My battery also drops down from 50% to 15% or 5%.....It's really very annoying...
I think that this is a frimware issue but i am not sure..I am scared that it could be a hardware issue...
Well i have mailed Samsung also regarding this issue so that they fix this issue in the next frimware upgrade and hope others also do the same so that we have a better chance of this bug getting fixed.....!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And when I switch off / on the phone then it shows probably correct vallue. For an example. It shows me 15% and after restart it is 60 %. What a stupid bug - I've never have this problem with any device before. Even phones 10 years ago were able to show correct battery status. I think this problem was also with original 2.1 android firmware.
Can someone who has upgraded to froyo pl. confirm that this issue is resolved in the new firmware?
Sent from my GT-I5801 using XDA App
TekkenLaw said:
Can someone who has upgraded to froyo pl. confirm that this issue is resolved in the new firmware?
Sent from my GT-I5801 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, in JP9 / froyo is still this battery problem. When I switch on / off the phone then it's ok. Does someone resolved this issue please ?
My issue still exists. Froyo did not help. Also I can't understand why does one time on charging battery becomes hot, another time -cold.
same for me, and today i charged my phone and after charging just put it on my table after 1h i saw that there are only 80%. Didn't see this on other firmwares
Same here. I thought it is because of my battery manager widget which I had installed, but un-installing/master clear also did not help. Looks like it is major problem. Moreover, few of the battery widgets mention that in some devices they report 1% level battery change, but in Samsung I5801, it will be 10%.
what about this issue at JPA ?
when you was installing JPA did you hard reset your phone ? (factory settings)
If yes which application do you use for restore all of the datas and settigns ?
Yes, it was done. Hard reset seems is not related, and did not help.
Same problem here...
Since built in battery meter is not accurate at all Im using custom one but problem remains.
might fix battery issue.
might work...saw it for Epic 4g and gave it a shot (as its Samsung too). Some sites say LiON do not have memory like NiCd did but somehow it worked for me. Now I stay on 100% for 5hrs or so. lasting 2 days with 45mins call time and some Wifi use. Like today charged full 100% at 9AM and now its 2230 and I have 80%.I have switched off a lot of things. See below.
http://androidforums.com/epic-4g-tips-tricks/171804-recalibrating-battery.html
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=701567
Above needs to be done once only. If it doesn't work then go to service center. Remember battery has 6 months warranty only so be quick and try above on new battery.
I also run LauncherPro instead of stock. Disabled data and enable when out of AP range (only use Wifi when needed and have an AP). Background data/synch is always off unless I use market. All apps are set to never except Gmail. Use K9 Email too and ATK. Am on DDj6 FM. Have removed a lot of apps, foursquare included and run 2 screen with LauncherPro widgets only.
Settings to switch off are here.
http://jvoegele.blogspot.com/2010/10/how-to-improve-battery-life-for-samsung.html
http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-hack-your-htc-evo-4g-increase-battery-life-373058/
afalak said:
might work...saw it for Epic 4g and gave it a shot (as its Samsung too). Some sites say LiON do not have memory like NiCd did but somehow it worked for me. Now I stay on 100% for 5hrs or so. lasting 2 days with 45mins call time and some Wifi use. Like today charged full 100% at 9AM and now its 2230 and I have 80%.I have switched off a lot of things. See below.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As long as I know li ion batteries doesnt have the memory effect but they still have to be recalibrated from time to time, lets say once a month. That means dont charge the phone until it goes off and then charge to the top.
I wasnt willing to wait for 11 hours for phone to charge when I bought it and after few days I ve notice that battery last very short. After that I ve performed the full cycle (drain to the bottom - when phone turn itself off, then after few minutes turn it on, wait until it goes off - repeat few times until its completely off then charge it fully - I usually turn off the phone while charging ).
As long as I know all modern devices like phones, notebooks etc shut down before the battery is completely drained because they want to have safe margin of the battery power because of, as long as I know, when li ion batteries become completely drained then could be damaged completely so you cant recharge them again. Anyway with that "turn on then its drained" I believe that I use the battery more than normal and that phone will recalibrate to the new situation figuring that battery have more voltage than phone "expected".
Anyway with few recharging cycles like those I ve described above I can use the phone now for a 2 days with moderate usage...
That 50-15 problem still exist but 100% period last quite long and also phone can be used a long time from the moment battery reach 15% ...
Try doing it the other way round!
Keep your device on constant charge or at least as much as possible for 10 days from new and you should have now problem.
I have run tests on Lion powered devices for the past 5 years and I have never had to "calibrate" once.
My battery usage is always consistent and seemingly accurate.
And this method encourages max power from the battery.
Sent from my Ideos S7 using XDA App
i just flashed my I5801 with Froyo (XXJPB and then XXJPA), but having very low battery back up, can anyone advice something which can help boosting the performance of the battery? Please help.
Every time when I plug my A500 for recharging, after the power button turned to white (or a kind of light blue...) indicating the device is fully charged, when I take a look at the battery stat, it shows "99%".
So, I noticed I only got "100%" when I boot the device while charging...
Is that common? The boot time drains 1% of battery till start the system???
It's really just an estimate of charge and you can't really take the number at face value.
I don't recall if the stock battery information shows you the actual voltage RIGHT NOW, but that's a more relevant number than the percentage shown.
An example is on my phone where it will show a fully charged battery to be at 4.210V which usually corresponds to 100%. When it says 4.210V, I know it's completely topped off regardless of what the percentage says. So there's some correlation between the voltage and what it regards that as a percentage of possible charge.
So it's not really using 1% at boot up. That's just a margin of error you can ignore.
qhorque said:
It's really just an estimate of charge and you can't really take the number at face value.
I don't recall if the stock battery information shows you the actual voltage RIGHT NOW, but that's a more relevant number than the percentage shown.
An example is on my phone where it will show a fully charged battery to be at 4.210V which usually corresponds to 100%. When it says 4.210V, I know it's completely topped off regardless of what the percentage says. So there's some correlation between the voltage and what it regards that as a percentage of possible charge.
So it's not really using 1% at boot up. That's just a margin of error you can ignore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well... Ok, as long as it`s not an issue...
Sometimes mine says 100% at full charge, sometimes it says %99.
I wouldn't sweat it.
alexrb said:
Well... Ok, as long as it`s not an issue...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you charged it for 6 hours and it said 60%, you'd have a real issue. But 1% is really within the realm of tolerance, margin of error, etc. Definitely ignore it.