Database Users

Newbie question regrading storage cards

I'm new to WM5 having previously had a Blue Angel running 2003SE; so far I like my new toy by am wondering about the pros and cons regrading where to install applications Storage Card versus Main Memory. Obviously, installing on Storage card keeps memory free - this is a good thing, but will applications run slower from storage card?
What expereinace can you share regarding thsi?
Thanks
Chris

In WM2003, internal storage ROM is only used to store a backup of the OS and vendor extensions, and is only read during hard resets. Volatile RAM is used to store the OS, files, and applications during regular use (unless they are installed on the SD card), and so their storage must compete with the RAM needed for running programs.
WM5 changes everything -- with WM5, the OS, applications and files always get stored in a nonvolatile storage, be it internal or external, and this is separate from the RAM. Thus battery loss does not cause you to lose installed applications or files. RAM is totally available for running programs, and is not used to store files which are rarely used. There is no more competition for RAM between stored files and running programs.
The WM5 OS and applications running in the background will always use a certain amount of the 64 MB of RAM. You can free it up by removing unnecessary applications. You can also free up the non-volatile storage space by removing vendor extensions and cleaning up temporary files. See this thread, and search for "0506" in re: O2 XDA Exec ROM.
As I have not received my XDA Exec yet, I cannot comment on the speed differences between using internal storage and SD storage. Obviously both are slower than running programs stored in RAM, and depend on the speed on the storage card. But the difference between installing on a SD card and installing in the "default location" is less in WM5 than in WM2003. Installing in the default location won't reduce your available RAM, for example.
I'm sure others have opinions on how best to optimize memory.

thanks for the answer. I posed the question because I pretty much ran out of memory on my device. I have installed in Corporate mode, so don't have O2 active etc. I have just done a hard reset & will now install everything on my storage card just to see what happens

I have had a few WM5 devices. Basically install everything on a removable card. Only install on the internal storage utilities that you are likely to keep around and restrict this to a minimum and small things, like vbar, TRE, etc.
The disadvantage of course is that if you swap SD cards then you can't run applications until you put back in the card installed. I never have this problem as I have only 1gb card permanently in the system. I will shortly be upgrading to a 4gb card (as they are not around £100) which means this is less of a problem. Although note that in the current version of the xda exec's software the camera refuses to write to a 4gb card unless at least 2gb is full.
rgds

I too have a 1Gb card with a 4Gb on order. I'm not very bothered about the camera, but I have read about the 2Gb problem. Hopefully someone will fix this little bug, but until then I can save photos to main memory and then move them about

As a guide I install everything to a SD Card unless it's a today screen plugin or sync's in some way...

that's excatly my thought too - only things which have a today plugin go on the main memory; everything else to SD card - seems to work fine

SD card primer, anyone?

Hello,
I just discovered I'm even more of a ignorant farmgirl than I thought... this time it's the MiniSD card I don't know anything about.
I mean: of course you plug it in and you browse to it to add/move/remove files... but it would seem that's not enough. So, can anyone point me to a SD-on-Wiz Faq, please?
A few things I'm looking into:
- How do you get the Wiz to automatically look among SD card-based files from an app? (i.e. "Open" from Word looks into the card first)
- How do you get the camera to save pictures directly onto the SD card, so as not to waste precious device-based memory?
- What are the actual differences between installing apps onto a SD card compared to the device memory? I noticed some apps seem to behave differently according to where they are placed.
- Is there any way to create a card-based auto-multi-installer to do all the dirty work of reinstalling apps automatically after a hard reset?
I'm sure I left out several other interesting and useful things...
Thanks in advance for your contributions!

there´s some reg tweaks you can do so the wizard will store stuff on the sd-card and not in main memorey (i. e. IE cache files, Camera pics, etc.)
just search the forum you´ll find some stuff there.
For the difference between SD-Card and main storage installation. i have no idea. haven´t noticed any change in my apps. maybe just in speed of loading apps. but that´s all i noticed.
for doing backup of your apps. a lot of programms you intall on your sd card don´t need to be reinstalled after a hard reset. just need to put the shortcuts and links back in the folders.
hope i could help.
greets Freez

Making the camera save pictures to the SD card can be done by changing the settings in the camera app under options.
There is no way to automatically have all apps look on the SD card first, every app needs a change in their settings or in the registry to accomplish that.
Installing apps on the SD card has pros and cons. The pros are of course that your storage space on the device (in the ROM) gets used up less, so you can install more apps on your device. It is however not necessary to leave it as empty as possible as it was in WM 2003 SE. In WM 2003 SE (on for instance the Magician) apps were installed in RAM and the more you installed on the device, the more RAM was used up and the less RAM there was available for running apps, resulting in a slow down of the device. Furthermore running out of battery power would result in the device turning off, emptying the RAM and lossing all data and installed apps. In WM5 this is different. Since ROM is used for storage and RAM for executing only, you can fill your ROM to the max without slowing down the device. Furthermore an empty battery will mean no data loss. Concluding, there is no necessity to install as much as possible to the SD card and leave your ROM space empty.
The cons of installing to your SD card are that some apps (e.g. today-plug-ins) don't like being installed on SD card. For today plug-ins this has to do with the start-up process of the Wizard. After turing the device on or waking it from sleep, the device will first load the apps and then initialize the SD card. The device will try to load the apps on the today screen (the plug-ins that is) that are stored on the SD before the SD slot is initialized and the apps cannot be found by the device, creating glitches and problems.
Another con for me is that I like to switch between my SD with TomTom navigation maps and my SD with my mp3/movie collection. If I install most apps to SD, this means that I will have to change my SD again if during a movie or MP3 I want to use one of these apps quickly.
However, if you use only one SD for installing and not much else, this problem does of course not exist.
If your storage in ROM is not full, there is no reason to install aps to SD.

Thak you for the info so far!
Koskie: paint me 'tard... I never even saw the camera Options menu until you mentioned it...

I am about to start getting some cards and here is what I was thinking...
1. a 512 or 128MB card for everyday use. Store IE cache, ringtones, pictures, and some programs (solitaire, puzzles, monopoly etc).
2. A series of 2GB cards for music, movies and TV content when I travel. I was planing on installing TCPMP on each one to avaoid putting that in my device memory.
As far as restoring after flashing or a hard reset, I currently keep a copy of all programs, ringtones, pim backups etc on my home computer. It is organized by file type, utils, games, rings etc. so when I flash I just go through again and reinstall one by one. I've found this is easier than figuring out where to download everything all over again.

@bubism: no problem, took me a while to figure it out too, that option is well-hidden!
@dcdivenut: Good plan. Those small size cards are really cheap. Why don't you install TCPMP on your device memory? It is not too big. Or have you crammed your mem so full that you have no more place for it.
I also have all apps I ever installed still on my desktop, including a list with all the reg edits I did and all apps I have currently installed with a short explanation for most apps and installation instructions when a standard install is not good enough (e.g. TomTom 5.21)
In case a hard reset is needed,I just grab the list and install all apps again, then do all the regedits. Still a lot of work, but quicker than having to search all apps and edits online. I recommend this approach to everyone.

Hey Koskie:
Can you post that list and what to do? I have a new 8125 and miniSD card and have no idea what to use the card for. I won't be putting music, pictures or videos on it since it is a work phone.
Ski

@ Skijackz: I use my SD card for music, TomTom 5.21 maps and video's only, all my apps are installed in main (=device) mem. I have approx. 16 MB free of Storage mem. If you have no use for your SD card and your storage mem is sufficient to store your apps, you can take it out and replace it with the plastic dummy that came with it. In that way your card slot is protected against dust and dirt, but the SD card will not use any power, thereby lengthening your uptime. If you use your device for navigation, you have to use the card to store the maps on it, since they are too big for your device mem.
The list I made is partly in Dutch, especially the notes, so it might not be very useful to you. Furthermore the list is a mess, since it works through my personal filing system (copy and paste wherever my cursor happens to rest). It is a mostly chronological list, I mostly added everything I found at the end. I'll attach it anyway, perhaps you'll find it useful. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask them here or through PM.

Thanks a lot for the tip on storing pics to the storage card!!! That's a real find! ....and much appreciated!!
This place is the BEST :!: :!:

Thanks Koskie!! This is a real help.

Wing Cant Fly, Or: How I learned to loathe my Wing and am planning to set it on fire.

The number one thing I need to do here is thank the xda dev Herald forum, and a lot of the people who have contributed. I learned a lot of valuable information in the last 48 hours of immersing myself here trying to fix my Wing.
However, I'm at my ropes end, and can't figure out what to do.
I've had my Wing for a 5 weeks. Took some getting used to (had a couple of Dash's before that) but the phone had potential. I had installed a single game (Soduku) and was on my way.
Fast forward to 2 weeks ago. I start getting a message I'm sure you all are familiar with:
*Storage Memory - Your phone is running low on free storage space. Delete old or unused items to create more space.*
Now, after years of using the Dash, getting such a message after only 5 weeks seemed incredible. I went through the cleaned Temp Internet files, MMS messages, and whotnot, to no avail. After about three days it just went away on its own.
This brings us to three days ago. My phone just starts locking up on its own. I go from never having soft reset it before to having to do so almost a dozen times in 2 hours. This is when I start my search online for solutions. I find this place. I start learning about ROMs, RUUs, SPLs, registry tweaks, .cabs, some of this stuff I knew about from my Dash, some of it new.
Two days ago that Storage Memory message came back. Followed by a new one:
*Storage Memory - Storage memory is critically low. If the storage memory is not increased, other programs may not be able to start. Use File Explorer to delete files that are no longer needed or move some files to a storage card. *
I redouble my efforts. Throw Battery Status on there, and DL the files for the Page Pool change. This did not work, as I can't run .cabs or .dll files from my phone. I don't know if this is a PPC specific thing, but that's how I always installed stuff on my Dash; just run the .cab from File Explorer.
However, on this phone, when I try that, I get:
* itsutils.dll - There is no application associated with "itsutils". Run the application first, then open the file from within the application *
Same thing with .cab files.
This brings us to today. I can soft reset the phone and I get a Storage Memory message before the phone even finished loading the home screen. I can't go 90 seconds without getting a Storage Memory message. I deleted the one program I had installed (from the storage card), changed the registry to save Temp Internet Files to the Storage Card, nothing.
My Memory is:
Storage TOTAL 31.44 MB IN USE 31.44 MB FREE 0.0MB
Program TOTAL 47.89 MB IN USE 35.36 MB FREE 12.53 MB
I can no longer do anything useful on this phone. Text messages won't send. Half of my programs don't open. I can receiver calls but not make them. I went into the Remove Programs part of the Settings; that window is blank, and where is says Total storage memory available, its also blank. All T-Mo tech support can do is tell me to hard reset the phone.
I went through and deleted all of my text messages (about 2400 total), with absolutely NO CHANGE in memory. Every time I touch my phone, I get a Storage Memory message, unless one has already popped up on its own. Sometimes they stack on each other, too.
The only thing on this phone are my contacts, and Battery Status.
I'm about at the end of my patience here. My blood pressure has gone up 15 points in the last three days, and I forsee this phone getting very familiar with my 21" ASP followed by some Zippo fluid, in about a day.
Some basic stats:
WM6 Pro
CE OS 5.2.1622 (Build 18128.0.4.4)
ROM 4.26.531.1 WWE
OMAP850 201MHz (clocked to 247)
Model HERA110
IPL 4.26.0002
SPL 4.26.0000
That's all I can think of. I'm going to thank in advance anyone who even reads this, for taking some time out of your day. If you can help me, even better.
Cheers

By what i can read you are probably using a stock rom. considering you are running low on storage space 1st i would recommend use one of the BIGSTORAGE or Light Roms. Most of them have a big storage data and a lower Page Pool and less unnecessary programs. As a Wing user for over a year once i have flashed a custom ROM i have never had a low memory message. Been trying different once and using Open Touch 7.7 now. Not much of Storage Memory but i have a 4Gig memory card so i dont rly need it.
Also its a good practice to use the task manager to shut down programs if u run low on Program memory.
Thats about what i can think of for now.
Believe me, the Wing is a rly good phone.
Edit: Here are some Higher Storage Roms that i have used:
ttran001's Light Roms
ivanmmj's ROMs - 1
ivanmmj's ROMs - 2

Yeah, stock ROM.
I've been trying to DL another, and Hard SPL; every time I do it downloads about 900K and then the DL stops like its complete. But thats a story for another time.
I realized (and cant figure out why) that I can't actually delete any text messages. I delete them, and for whatever reason, I'll have to soft reset the phone, and then they're all back again.
I managed to get into the Remove Programs, and deleted EVERYTHING. Bought myself 2.2MB of Storage memory.
45 mins later, of the phone just sitting on my table, it was gone. Storage Memory is just back at 0.0MB.
I'm about to just hard reset and call it a day.

I'm using "JustMe" Ivan's ROM. A lot software installed. Some softwares in main memory. Because needs install there. But still i have 47,53 MB storage and 15 MB program memory. Thanks Ivan

RAM/Memory Low Problems

For some reason, I don't see too many complaints about low memory issues - yet I have always had problems with my RAM.
I have almost all of my programs installed on my SD card to try reduce any of my memory usage - but if I run PIE, MSN Messenger, or try to play music, I almost always have low memory messages come up.
I usually have one program running in the background - Slide to Unlock - but as far as I know its not that memory intensive?
Any insight on how I can fix this?
Thanks!

Are you running an elf or an elfin? If your not sure.....go to start-->settings-->system-->device information-->hardware. What does your RAM size read? If its 64MB its an elf.....if it says 128MB its an elfin. Your saying you've installed all your applications on the storage card. How much free space do you have for program memory on your phone? Your phones needs free memory in order to run applications too. Perhaps its running low on that end? Two things you should do:
1. Move any extra files, photos, videos or anything else that you might have saved on the phone memory to the storage card. Use activesync. Its faster that way.
2. Clear out your browser history and temp files. This could most probably be your culprit as they take up space too...and you don't necessarily see this upfront. Goto Start-->Internet Explorer-->Menu-->Tools-->Options-->Memory Tab.

[email protected] said:
...
2. Clear out your browser history and temp files. This could most probably be your culprit as they take up space too...and you don't necessarily see this upfront. Goto Start-->Internet Explorer-->Menu-->Tools-->Options-->Memory Tab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been having "Insufficient memory" errors while trying to run SpB Backup, and have deleted all sorts of applications, but nothing seemed to free up enough memory. Then I tried your advice, and everything is working as it should!
Thanks!!

I have an elf - usually when I close all of my processes, except my stumble to unlock, I'll have approx. 15mb/47 free in my program memory. 10/28 of my storage space is free.
I've tried to clear all of my temp files... even made it so that all my temp files/PIE files are put on my storage card through SK tools, but still have the same issues.
As soon as I run my HTC music player with the one or two background apps, it almost always pops up with memory issues. Browsing with PIE is almost impossible for any period longer than 5 minutes.
I've tried it with several configurations and I always have the same results, even if I have no background processes - I still have the same issues.

Are you using a cooked ROM? Come to think of it, I never had many problems with the original shipped ROM. I was normally running S2U2, PocketMusic, Opera Mini and SpbMobileShell back then.
You mean to say you can't even run one application at a time without running out of RAM? Soft reset. And if you use SKTools like you say you do, try running Free Up RAM, select all options.
In your shoes I'd probably move everything I want to storage card, (you should want more than 10mb storage) try a hard reset and install my most used apps again. Oh, and what is your PagePool size? Try here to find out about that. It should be 4mb.

Your primary problem is indeed the fact that you are running out of space on your phone. 15mb for program memory especially on heavy usage is quite insufficient. Especially if your going to be multi tasking and running several applications at once. I would move ALL my installed programs and anything else I may be able to get my hands on, to the storage card. Try to squeeze out atleast 25-30mb out of your program memory. This should give your phone some more breathing space.

This might be to use of you to try it out.
http://www.oxios.com/memory/

hi
I had the same problem before but now my touch runs fine now & haven't got any issues till now. Use advanced task manager and pocket mechanic. These application will keep ur pocketpc in good shape.

Very good, Thanks.

Memory: Storage vs Program

Here's a problem I don't understand:
How are most ppl able to install so many things on their HD2 and not use up memory space?
So my HD2 has a total of 193.43MB of Storage and 457.01MB of Program.
When I install games and programs and apps, I install them on the device. This takes up "Storage" memory.
I guess, what is the difference? And how can I choose between where (On device or micro) to install each type of game, apps, program?
1) What uses Program memory? What uses Storage memory?
2) If I install a game on the microSD, and do a flash to a new ROM, will I have to re-install the game on the microSD again?

You should keep a basic strategy:
Whatever prog belongs to the operating system (like HTCSense-hacks, GUIs etc.) or should work without storage card:
Install it to the main memory
Whatever prog is not operating system critical (games, browsers, navi-software, apps, photos, videos etc.):
Install it on the SD-Card (the setup in 99% allows You to choose between main memory and Storage Card). It will eat up little by little Your RAM (by adding values in the registry, icons regs in the startup-menu), but this might centuries ´till RAM is full.
Move Cashes to SD-card as described in
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=583638
and try to keep main data memory above 50 MB.
Maybe installing progs to the SD-Card might make progs a litlle bit slower (not much though) but this way You can install hundreds of apps on Your HD2 (and never forget: before installing a new prog make a full backup of the main memory e.g. with SPB-Backup and if the new prog crashes Your device restore. Also for this it is ALWAYS better to install a new app to SD-Card instead main mem).

lemonspeakers said:
Here's a problem I don't understand:
How are most ppl able to install so many things on their HD2 and not use up memory space?
So my HD2 has a total of 193.43MB of Storage and 457.01MB of Program.
When I install games and programs and apps, I install them on the device. This takes up "Storage" memory.
I guess, what is the difference? And how can I choose between where (On device or micro) to install each type of game, apps, program?
1) What uses Program memory? What uses Storage memory?
2) If I install a game on the microSD, and do a flash to a new ROM, will I have to re-install the game on the microSD again?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Program memory is RAM that is used by the operating system when executing programs.
Storage memory is where apps are installed and are then available through your icon links.
Calls are made from ROM to storage and then executed in RAM.
There are a number of issues to bear in mind when deciding where to install apps.
Installing to mem card results in slower operation of the app.
Installing to mem card results in higher power usage and therefore drains the battery quicker.
Installing to mem card can result in operating system freezes and overall slowdowns.
Installing to mem card will establish app links with the operating system that won't necessarily be usable if you flash other OS ROMs. Fresh reinstallation of apps should always be done after a flash of any new ROM anyway to keep things clean and running smoothly and reduce operational glitches to a minimum.
Any backup and restore software should only be used when restoring to the same
ROM and never across a ROM change. Sync all items you can before and resync afterwards.
Only install to mem card those apps that force you to or when you have run out of main storage and similarly have no choice.
If you know you are going to install masses of apps from the outset then as had been mentioned install operating system critical apps to main mem and the rest as you can using mem card last.
This is all good practice and good housekeeping.

Great Post !
Great thread !!!
I always wonder if Storage and program memory can be modified.
It was a long long long time ago, it was possible with my palm pilot...
Is there an application for monitoring RAM usage ?
I have about 190 Mo of free Ram and 39 Mo of free program memory.

woaloo said:
Great thread !!!
I always wonder if Storage and program memory can be modified.
It was a long long long time ago, it was possible with my palm pilot...
Is there an application for monitoring RAM usage ?
I have about 190 Mo of free Ram and 39 Mo of free program memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no real reason to monitor any mem usage unless you operate in a memory hungry fashion. And that will only occur with the install of numerous apps. If you run out of storage mem then that's the time to do something about it and if that doesn't happen, then don't worry about it because your phone won't know the difference.