Database Users

Memory eaten away !!!!!!!

I think all of you have seen this.. Free program stats from around 25 Mb and keeps on going down even if you completely kill the processes. is there a tool which actually kills the resident dlls and other crap in memory.. Please advice.. i want to get out this habbit of soft reset after couple of days just to bring my memory back up where it belongs ;-)
Cheers
Zobie

Yeah, leaking memory is also one of the very few things I hate on my Wizard
I also would like to know if there is a Memory Cleaner that works like it should and not only kills open programs.

Had problem also. But the Internet Exploder was to blame. I had the history settings to 30 days. Which is the default. Back to 0 days and everything was hunkydory again.

I had problems with memory too. I had less than 1MB of storage memory left. So I went from a custom 2.17 ROM to Mr. Clean AKU 2.3 and changed the Registry setting for IE as follows:
; IE Cache to storage card
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders]
"Cache"="\\Storage Card\\Temporary Internet Files"
I've used this ROM for a week now with lots of programs. I have an average of 25 MB of storage free and the system is fast.
I have experienced no problems whatsoever.

If i don't even open the IE will it still be a memory hog?? i don't understand that.. I can understand that if i use IE all the time it will cause problems but if i don't even use it why woud my memory drop with time. Cans omeone please explain. I am not trying to offend neone here but just wante dto know. I can definitely try the reg settings. Please let me know.
Thanks
Zobie

Don't confuse ROM with RAM and storage with program mem. I think the topic starter referred to his RAM mem becoming less every day, resulting in low program mem and slow operations, needing a reset to clear the RAM and speed up the device.
The IE cache is stored in ROM and will only fill your storage but not slow down your device.
memory leaks are unfortunately a standard issue with PPC devices, I have always suffered from them on both WM 2003 SE and Wm5 devices. For me a soft reset now and then clears it up, but I find it an annoying "feature" as well.

I think like Windows its the In Memory DLLs which are the culprit. I wonder if there can be tools for detailed view of memory for Xp why not WM5.

BUMP !!!

zobie said:
I think like Windows its the In Memory DLLs which are the culprit. I wonder if there can be tools for detailed view of memory for Xp why not WM5.
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What are the "In Memory DLL's"? Never heard of such a thing.
The memory that slows your device is the addressable application memory, which is a total of 32 MB. You cannot change that or add to it.
Think of it as the same as the Virtual Memory (VM) in Windows XP on your desktop. Every application you open reserves a bit of this virtual memory. Some apps willingly give it up when they close - some that are not as well written do not. A soft reset when you see the device slowing is about all you can do.
My only other advice is that skinned applications - particularly Today screen plugins - use up this addressable memory very quickly. This includes Wisbar Advance2, PocketBreeze and iLauncher, and any weather program. If you are running these, you will always have similar issues. Find an acceptable mix of skinned apps that you must have, and try doing without the rest just to see how it treats your device's memory.
And if you want to see what processes are running, and how much memory they are using, try MemMaid by Dinarsoft or SK-Tools. Great programs.

Amen. I wonder how much is held in reserve by the system in case you start the app again? Real Windows has been doing that for a long time, I wouldn't be surprised if micro Windows did it as well. Kind of reminds me of years ago when NT would report how it actually used memory and the end result was there was almost zero bytes "free" because all memory was always used for something, it didn't let anything sit around doing nothing. But since users didn't get it, MS wrote the taskman and so on to report something as "free memory" even though it wasn't really free. Finally, a lot of apps were designed to hide, not close, when you select the "X". If one of those task manager apps just blows the app away, does it bother cleaning up after the app which wasn't given the chance to clean up after itself by closing correctly?

markgamber said:
Amen. I wonder how much is held in reserve by the system in case you start the app again? Real Windows has been doing that for a long time, I wouldn't be surprised if micro Windows did it as well. Kind of reminds me of years ago when NT would report how it actually used memory and the end result was there was almost zero bytes "free" because all memory was always used for something, it didn't let anything sit around doing nothing. But since users didn't get it, MS wrote the taskman and so on to report something as "free memory" even though it wasn't really free.
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Take a look here to learn about what you really see in task manager regarding memory/cpu usage.
http://tinyurl.com/l57w8
Finally, a lot of apps were designed to hide, not close, when you select the "X". If one of those task manager apps just blows the app away, does it bother cleaning up after the app which wasn't given the chance to clean up after itself by closing correctly?
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Depends on which task mamger you are using; some use the WMClose command instead of the Kill command. Big difference!

Tools Like Memmaid SK-Tools don't allow you to identify rouge elements in memory which nolonger have a parent process running. It is those elemts which eat up the memory. I have SPB tools to actually close the application but even then the memory keeps on falling. I guess there is no tool as of today like Taskmanager or even RAM Optimizer for PPC. A Tool like RAM Optimizer would check for the elements which are residing in RAM and are no longer being used. XDA developers can surely write something using the .NE Framework.

J-Mac said:
Depends on which task mamger you are using; some use the WMClose command instead of the Kill command. Big difference!
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Do you happen to know of a couple that use the WMClose command? I've used HandySwitcher most recently and MagicButton in the past, but have no idea which method(s) they use.
Thank you.
Geoffrey

There must 40 threads on this topics by now. I concur with J-Mac that today plugins are mostly to blame. I use Journal Bar and perform a soft reset roughly every other day. To help the situation I also use 2 programs which I find invaluable - The first is Smartskey which allows you close a program rather than minimise it (its a free download on this forum). The second is SK Tools Free up RAM application which works reasonably well but only delays the enevitable soft reset. It's effectiveness decreases the longer the device remains active.

WM5 automatically close some programs to clear memory?

Is there anyway to prevent this? I am using a program that will close automatically after using a couple programs...
http://benhirashima.com/software/
Due to the way Windows Mobile manages memory, you may find that if you have been using a lot of different programs on your phone, or doing something that requires a lot of memory, that Windows Mobile will automatically shut down TxtMan without warning. It does this to free up memory for whatever you're currently doing. Unfortunately, TxtMan won't receive SMS messages after it's been shut down. If you've been doing a lot of work on your phone, you should check to see if TxtMan is still running.
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does anyone have any info on this and maybe a registry setting to prevent it?

WM just frees memory. You can do nothing with this, except soldering extra RAM chips

there is also 32 program limit. if you have too many programs open, the last used will be closed anyway, having more memory will not help. trust me on that one, I have 128 Mb RAM and WM5.

The programs can ignore WM_CLOSE, which enlongates livetime. But if memory becomes too cluttered, Windows will kill the program anyway.
The idea was to do something like Palm, where a program exits to a saved state when it's left (there is no multitasking) and continues there when restarted. The "smart minimize" feature (programs aren't closed but minimized until memory runs low) would have been a speedup, and allowed programs to do some background stuff while there's enough memory and CPU time. With small organizer apps like Contacts, Appointments, PocketWord, etc., this would have worked quite OK...
However, since PPCs became more and more "small PCs" instead of "better organizers", programs grew in CPU and memory usage, required to stay alive (e.g. multimedia players, navigation, ...), and task managers like WisBar became a "must have". And the automatic close mechanism became an unwanted legacy...

memory leakage

Dear All,
i'm using wm5, i noticed there is a memory leakage , i'm using batery status , every program i open memory decreases then when i close the program using resco task manager , the memory used by the program is not released.
is there any way to avoid this ???

Try using Oxios Memory to recover leaked memory.

I did but still not all the memory recovered , as example as i restart i have 21 MB free after using the device for 6-8 hours , i find the memory 17-18 MB , and i'm sure that all the programs are properly closed.

If you opened a lot of applications in those 6 to 8 hours then that is normal.
You can't just close the app and think that it will be like you have never opened it...that it will remove every bit from memory.
for example, I start with 24MB of free RAM after reset, and trough two or tree days it drops down to 19-22MB dependinh of which and how many apps I have started meanwhile.

Installed apps, even those stored on a SD card will create unneccessary files in the main memory taking some memory away. Check these locations to see if you can delete files from apps that are not needed for the app to run. (main memory) Application Data/Volatile, windows directory/app mgr./active sync (control log) several bytes can be safely deleted here. Look for programs that have been removed, but are still in the app mgr. folder. If files can't be found, use the app that newbie2 offered or this one. Works for me!

Same for me
Man i get the samething. I use the Oxias but it only frees up a couple hundred kb to maybe a few mb. Crazy that I can get it all the way down to 2-3mb of ram. I start with in the 23-26mb free range. I open the following:
Slide2Unlock by A_C
Iphone launcher by Grumps
PocketCM by Tene
I have softkey by water
and Hbutton running
I occassionally check my email and get a few text messages. Outside of that, not a lot of major memory usage.
Even with that going I start at about 21 - 23mb. How is getting down that low. And what will actually work to get it back?
CG

It could be that these programs you have installed are the cause. I think I recall seeing an issue like this related to Slide2Unlock. But the truth is, any badly/improperly written software can do this.

treo...not! said:
It could be that these programs you have installed are the cause. I think I recall seeing an issue like this related to Slide2Unlock. But the truth is, any badly/improperly written software can do this.
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Does anyone know of an actual GOOD program out there that will automatically dump the RAM cache at interval or preset limits?? And do it with a noticable difference??
I have seen others using Resco, task manager and few other programs but most people report the same problem. I know M$ has set the cache up to do this on its own but it is just not as affective as I would like it to be. I know that the short answer is to give up the apps I like. But, I would like to work around that if possible.
CG

hotdog53 said:
Installed apps, even those stored on a SD card will create unneccessary files in the main memory taking some memory away. Check these locations to see if you can delete files from apps that are not needed for the app to run. (main memory) Application Data/Volatile, windows directory/app mgr./active sync (control log) several bytes can be safely deleted here. Look for programs that have been removed, but are still in the app mgr. folder. If files can't be found, use the app that newbie2 offered or this one. Works for me!
Click to expand...
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You can clear the Opera history & cache while in Opera, clear cache and delete files while in PIE. With the attached app, which I use ALL the time, can do all this with 1 tap. It also gets rid of your most recent program thst was opened from the start menu. Lots of items can be cleaned and eliminated safely allowing more memory. Check the box by the item/s you want the app to focus on.
8125
2.25.11.1

HTC Mogul memory decrease over the course of a day

What is up with the memory drain on this device. I'll start the day with 24mb of memory (soft reset) and only have 10mb or less at the end of the day with no apps but activesync running. Has anyone less notice this?

hansolos said:
What is up with the memory drain on this device. I'll start the day with 24mb of memory (soft reset) and only have 10mb or less at the end of the day with no apps but activesync running. Has anyone less notice this?
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Yea I get the same problem. Except I start off with about 20 and end up with as low as 9 before i'm forced to soft reset.

Its the magic of the Mogul's memory leak. The old rom and new rom feature it so untill a new update comes out, were stuck with it.

Does the Hermes and Kaiser have the same issue? They seem to be similar. They other thing is that the WM6 is suppose to have made those apps that leak in previous versions run at the kernel level.

my titan doesnt have the issue. its an app you've got installed. hard reset and dont install anything, you wont have the problem. troubleshooting 101. dont blame the titan.

I posted this on another forum discussing this problem, so I'll just quote myself here:
The memory "leak" thing is nothing more than a cache "optimization" in place to make the device respond snappier.
Whether it succeeds or not is another story altogether...
Basically, like any cache, it stores recent calculations for faster response later. For example, if you open and close IE alot, you might notice that the first time you open it on a fresh restart takes a little bit longer than the next times- that's because the second time you start it up, parts of it are still in memory from the first time!
You might be wondering why this happens even after forcing it closed with Xbutton or the memory settings. That's because the info stored in the performance cache aren't directly related to any one program! Many apps can use the same routines and calculations, and therefore this process exists on a processor/file system layer as opposed to a software layer, and therefore also exists even when all programs are closed!
Meaning, if I have mapopolis that uses a certain routine to access my BT GPS receiver, even after I close it, some of that routine stays in memory because perhaps Google Maps will use the same routine, and therefore respond faster!
Now, ideally, this should speed up performance, and it SHOULD disappear on its own if the memory is needed and the information goes "stale" (hasn't been processed in a while = not really needed for optimized perfomance). However, one look at the way Microsoft handles "automatically closing apps" (native X button, anyone?) is enough to know that WM can't manage its own memory very well.
I can, however, vouch for the fact that the longer you leave all programs closed, the more of your memory starts to creep back into available. I've sat and watched this happen. So, it sort of works, but perhaps not well enough if people are having low memory system crash problems.
Now, before you all start blaming MS for this... Its not Microsoft's problem. They developed CE-5 (which WM6 is based on) on machines limited to 32MB to make sure the programmers didn't get lazy with OS bloat.
Its the manufacturers who add all this file system optimization and stuff to their final device. In this case, its the way HTC thinks the system should run, which is why this anomaly is NOT as apparent on, say, a WM Treo device.
The good news is that if we complain enough, HTC might realize this optimization does more bad than good, and leave it out on the next ROM update for us.
However, truth be told, I think it works. The Mogul is one of the snappiest PPC's I've used of late, although I can't say for sure if its because of the cache or not.
This is just my personal opinion, so don't flog me! I just don't look at the memory useage anymore unless I'm having a problem, which mind you, I hardly do.
My most recent observations were this:
Soft reset gives me ~21MB (got some htc plugins), and after a day of use, making sure to close everything after I'm done, I get 18-19MB. At lowest, I hit 10MB after closing alot of apps. This memory usually comes back to 18-19mb in a matter of time for me. If for some strange reason it doesn't (can't say how often this happens), I soft reset.
All in all, I'm happy with the Mogul.
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I wasn't blaming the Titan directly, although I wish they would allow you to adjust the memory like they have in the past. But as I've read that may having something to do with chipset of battery consumption.
I was just wondering if others had the same issue and might know of the reason.
Is there a list of known apps that cause memory 'drain' or don't clear their cache. I can understand apps caching data into memory to run faster, but they are not cleaning themselves out upon exit. The strange thing is how they continue to grow over the course of the day with no interaction.
I'm doing a hard reset to see if it get better. Add apps one at a time until I find an issue.

Ok did a hard reset. Setup Outlook to get my mail from Exchange and Gmail. Let it get synced and then did a soft reset. Started with 24mb after reset, down to 21mb without doing anything after an hour and it's still falling. The only thing running is ActiveSync. I've also removed htc_cm_guardain and ssdaemon from the startup. The only thing in startup is poutlook.
The thing I noticed when I had handyswitcher installed (before hard reset) was that filesys, device, gwes, services, shell and cprog all continously increased there memory consumption over the course of a few hours and never stopped or released it.

hansolos said:
I wasn't blaming the Titan directly, although I wish they would allow you to adjust the memory like they have in the past. But as I've read that may having something to do with chipset of battery consumption.
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No no no... the reason you used to be able to select storage vs RAM was because it was SHARED memory! It was actually all RAM. If you had a 64MB device, that 64mb was split between ram and storage, and just like the rest of your RAM, it would wipe out when the battery died!
Ever since WM5 came along, they stopped sharing the memory, and now have dedicated RAM and Storage (using the leftover space on the EPROM chips used for the ROM image), much like a computer. This is a much better solution since you don't sacrifice your RAM for storing some large files, and you don't have to worry about battery failure cleaning you out!
Also, its not the apps that have cache, its the file system. The file system WILL actually free up some of that memory as the device is left with all apps closed for a while (maybe not all of it, but I've watched my device go from 11mb free after closing stuff to 18-19mb).

You guys need to hit the easy button on this one! It may not be a permanent fix, but there's a small freeware called Oxios Hibernate that releases RAM. I just put it on my start menu and 2 clicks....I have free RAM. Try it out, you won't be disappointed.

bam, thanks for the info... that little app rocks.

use a file explorer and go to \Windows\Startup. There is a shortcut there for a program along the lines of HTC_Guardian_cmsomething. This app is a htc app used to enforce sprint settings and runs in the background. So long as you don't destroy your phone internet settings you can just remove the shortcut. I found all my memory leak issues have gone away. I don't have any leaks when using the kaiser tab plugin.

Yes I've removed the links for HTC_Guardian and SSDaemon from startup and added them to my settings folder (if I ever need them). I soft reset to around 25mb and the Oxios Hibernate app keeps me around 24.5mb.

what does SDdaemon do?

sddaemon is suppose to be the speed dial or voice command app you get when you hit the button on the left side with the talk bubble. It loads the app if you hit the button, so I'm not sure why they have it in startup.

On my old Treo 700W, which REALLY had a memory problem, I used Oxios hibernate all the time. It works quite well.

yes, it works.
bam099 said:
You guys need to hit the easy button on this one! It may not be a permanent fix, but there's a small freeware called Oxios Hibernate that releases RAM. I just put it on my start menu and 2 clicks....I have free RAM. Try it out, you won't be disappointed.
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you know what might help...if windows mobile had some sorta sorta disk caching feature...

that's what is causing the memory leak.

great tips. thanks.
hansolos said:
Yes I've removed the links for HTC_Guardian and SSDaemon from startup and added them to my settings folder (if I ever need them). I soft reset to around 25mb and the Oxios Hibernate app keeps me around 24.5mb.
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Programs closing on their own

I am using aserg windows mobile 6.1 rom and I have noticed a creeping problem. As time goes on, I can only seem to run 1 substantial program at a time.
For instance, if I try to run any of these programs in tandem:
HTC audio manager or Windows Media Player
Mundu mobile messenger
Opera
Internet explorer
Dictionary software
Outlook mail (sms/email)
Skype
the program in the background always closes. This is especially annoying when for instance I am listening to music and I get an email or sms, I go to check it and my music player just closes. Same if I try to browse the web and listen to music or check an sms, It is very annoying.
What causes this function in windows mobile and how do I turn it off?
As for memory, when I start I have 13-14 megs free memory. Any of these programs take an absolute MAXIMUM of 4-5 megs at peak usage. I should be able to run at least 2 together without a problem, and if another one does nto have enough memory, it shoudl just say so and not start, but not close out other programs...
I also have about 4-5 megs of free storage space on the phone.
any ideas on this one?

It seems as time goes on, I can't seem to run any more than 1 program simultaneously...

Reduce the amount of file space your browser have allotted for cache files and history.

My browser cache for both Opera and PIE are both pointed at the storage card which has about 500megs free. This problem occurs even if I am running any programs though, not just browsers...

It's either the memory shortage (which some of those programs can actually take much more than 4 or 5 mb to run.) Or you have it set to close on tap, within the task manager/x-button, instead of close on hold.

I use batterystatus, and it is set to tap and hold X to close, but I never use the X, I simply go to the start menu and open another program, then when I try to switch back to the other program, it is closed already.
How do I check if it is a memory problem?
For instance, if I run HTC audio manager, then get a message, I click reply, then after about 3 seconds into my reply HTC audio manager closes.
is there any way I can "force" the programs to stay open? Even if I were to launch a new program and it does not have enough memory, it woudl just not open rather than closing an existing open program...

To me, it sounds like you are running out of RAM, and programs that were running in the background are automatically closed. I'm not affiliated with Windows Mobile and hence not an expert, but I believe this (closing previously open programs rather than the new one) is the expected behavior in WM. Imagine getting a phone call and the phone app not opening since there's not enough memory because the OS didn't automatically close background programs...
I don't know of a way of changing the memory management behavior, but maybe someone else here does? I'd argue that you wouldn't want to anyway.
I'd suggest that you DO use the X button to close programs, otherwise I guarantee you will run out of memory and things will close automatically anyway. The difference is you won't have any say in what gets closed at that point. I added programs that I don't want to close with the X button (like Live Messenger) to the exclusive programs list in the Task Manager.
Second, I'd suggest you take any steps you can to increase your original pool of memory.

Darren, I understand your point, but it seems as if I have plenty of memory, and I can only run 1 program at a time. I don't mind so much the behaviour, it is just at the point of being ridiculous when I can only run 1 program at a time.
So you think that starting with 13-14 megs of free memory is not enough? How would I go about increasing this original pool of memory?
Also, even it I use the X button to close programs, that does not solve my problem anyways, whichever program is not in the foreground seems to close by itself anyway...

phony, I understand your frustration. I have had low memory problems myself, and I know that programs running in the background will close when that happens. That's why when I read your post it sounded like a memory issue to me.
I ended up tweaking a few things to try to get more free memory, like not running certain processes or services automatically at startup. I'm not sure if it is relevant to the ROM you are running, but see http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=312312.

This is definitely a memory problem. When the free program memory is lower than about 1MB (don't remember the exact number), the WIndows Mobile will send a WM_HIBERNATE to all the running program to release all the possible resources. If the memory goes lower, it will broadcast another message called WM_CLOSE to close all the background apps to release more memory. The only reason for apps that close on themselve is either low on mem or there are some apps in the background (maybe a virus) sending WM_CLOSE every now and then. To be honest, to have less than 15 megs of ram to start with is NEVER enough. Try to change the pool size if you don't like any of the great roms here. Hope this help.