Database Users

Start button Slow after restart !?! Any ideas

Recently I noticed that after a Soft Reset the Start Button can take up to a few good seconds to expand. In other words, this only happens the very first time I access the Start Menu. After this, it works good and as responsive as possible.
Any ideas if this is something that could be caused by a Registry Change? I've done all the suggested registry hacks (cache and all those) - but nothing out of the ordinary as far as I can remember.
This Start Button slowness is a bit annoying at times, so if anyone has any ideas.... please let me know

Make sure menu animation is off (good to use registry wizard http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=39725) and that all the programs in the first five or six named on the start menu are in main memory as if any are installed on the storage card it slows start menu down.

The behavior you are seeing is absolutely normal. When Windows starts up it has no icon cache. So when you click the "start" button for the first time, it will take some time to read all the application binaries you have installed and find their icons. After it does that, it generates a cache, so unless you run out of RAM, it won't rebuild it, until your next soft reset.
Generally, reading from the miniSD is slower than from Storage, and so it will take 2-3 more seconds if your apps are residing on SD. And it can take up to 3-4 more seconds PER application IF that application is huge in filesize (e.g. Skype, Opera, SJPhone, Bejewled2 etc -- I wish their developers were making smaller binaries that then load a bigger library instead of putting everything in a single binary which makes it slow reading the small icon).

On boot the system needs to gather the icons for the startmenu, which takes quite a while, particularly if you have skype installed. Not much to do about it. Many other possible causes as well.
V

Need help on 8125, Phone Dialer locks

I got my 8125 and have loaded a few programs. Ever since a few days ago I have noticed the phone dial is slow to open when I hit the phone button and almost everytime closing it seems to lock up or hang. I have to wait for it or sometimes it will unfreeze and go to working.
I read where the rom I have is possible a problem or cause. Anyone know about this?
Also is there a free way to unlock the sim/cid to update the rom? I am still looking thru the forums. I will check back soon.

First, you need to read the Wiki to determine if you have a G3 or G4 device.
If you have a G3, then go to this thread to unlock your phone. Then, you can flash any ROM you want.
If you have a G4, then you need to go here and start reading on using the ShellTool to flash your ROM.
As far as the phone freezing, check your Storage Memory. It could be critically low which will result in freezing problems. You might try clearing your internet cache first by opening the brower and tapping Menu > Options > Memory > Delete Files. I've seen others gain over 20mb of storage space just by clearing out their cache. If you have a storage card, you can redirect those internet files to the card by using a registry editor and making the following change in the registry:
HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders\Cache = "\Storage Card\cacheie" (REG_SZ string, no quotes)

How does you 8125 run? Does it seem to have any lockups with the setup you have?

None whatsoever. I've done just about all the reg tweaks to move stuff off the phone onto the Storage card that can be done. I only have programs installed to the device itself that have to be installed there. Everything else is run from the storage card.
Even with everything I run, I have over 20mb Storage Memory and around 23mb Program Memory left. I do a soft reset every morning when I pull the phone off the charger when I leave for work to regain any "leaked" memory and my 8125 hums right along.
Check here for some screenshots of my current setup.

newbie2 said:
Even with everything I run, I have over 20mb Storage Memory and around 23mb Program Memory left. I do a soft reset every morning when I pull the phone off the charger when I leave for work to regain any "leaked" memory and my 8125 hums right along.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, soft reset everyday. I though, have everything I use installed to the main memory and still have 18mb and 29mb of each memory free.
The only time I get a temporary freeze is when I shut down WMP.

I did so looking around and I think the problem was the 156 emails I had in my inbox. I believe that might have been causing some issues in slowdowns. I deleted all them and today no lockups at all.
DW

HTC Mogul memory decrease over the course of a day

What is up with the memory drain on this device. I'll start the day with 24mb of memory (soft reset) and only have 10mb or less at the end of the day with no apps but activesync running. Has anyone less notice this?

hansolos said:
What is up with the memory drain on this device. I'll start the day with 24mb of memory (soft reset) and only have 10mb or less at the end of the day with no apps but activesync running. Has anyone less notice this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I get the same problem. Except I start off with about 20 and end up with as low as 9 before i'm forced to soft reset.

Its the magic of the Mogul's memory leak. The old rom and new rom feature it so untill a new update comes out, were stuck with it.

Does the Hermes and Kaiser have the same issue? They seem to be similar. They other thing is that the WM6 is suppose to have made those apps that leak in previous versions run at the kernel level.

my titan doesnt have the issue. its an app you've got installed. hard reset and dont install anything, you wont have the problem. troubleshooting 101. dont blame the titan.

I posted this on another forum discussing this problem, so I'll just quote myself here:
The memory "leak" thing is nothing more than a cache "optimization" in place to make the device respond snappier.
Whether it succeeds or not is another story altogether...
Basically, like any cache, it stores recent calculations for faster response later. For example, if you open and close IE alot, you might notice that the first time you open it on a fresh restart takes a little bit longer than the next times- that's because the second time you start it up, parts of it are still in memory from the first time!
You might be wondering why this happens even after forcing it closed with Xbutton or the memory settings. That's because the info stored in the performance cache aren't directly related to any one program! Many apps can use the same routines and calculations, and therefore this process exists on a processor/file system layer as opposed to a software layer, and therefore also exists even when all programs are closed!
Meaning, if I have mapopolis that uses a certain routine to access my BT GPS receiver, even after I close it, some of that routine stays in memory because perhaps Google Maps will use the same routine, and therefore respond faster!
Now, ideally, this should speed up performance, and it SHOULD disappear on its own if the memory is needed and the information goes "stale" (hasn't been processed in a while = not really needed for optimized perfomance). However, one look at the way Microsoft handles "automatically closing apps" (native X button, anyone?) is enough to know that WM can't manage its own memory very well.
I can, however, vouch for the fact that the longer you leave all programs closed, the more of your memory starts to creep back into available. I've sat and watched this happen. So, it sort of works, but perhaps not well enough if people are having low memory system crash problems.
Now, before you all start blaming MS for this... Its not Microsoft's problem. They developed CE-5 (which WM6 is based on) on machines limited to 32MB to make sure the programmers didn't get lazy with OS bloat.
Its the manufacturers who add all this file system optimization and stuff to their final device. In this case, its the way HTC thinks the system should run, which is why this anomaly is NOT as apparent on, say, a WM Treo device.
The good news is that if we complain enough, HTC might realize this optimization does more bad than good, and leave it out on the next ROM update for us.
However, truth be told, I think it works. The Mogul is one of the snappiest PPC's I've used of late, although I can't say for sure if its because of the cache or not.
This is just my personal opinion, so don't flog me! I just don't look at the memory useage anymore unless I'm having a problem, which mind you, I hardly do.
My most recent observations were this:
Soft reset gives me ~21MB (got some htc plugins), and after a day of use, making sure to close everything after I'm done, I get 18-19MB. At lowest, I hit 10MB after closing alot of apps. This memory usually comes back to 18-19mb in a matter of time for me. If for some strange reason it doesn't (can't say how often this happens), I soft reset.
All in all, I'm happy with the Mogul.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I wasn't blaming the Titan directly, although I wish they would allow you to adjust the memory like they have in the past. But as I've read that may having something to do with chipset of battery consumption.
I was just wondering if others had the same issue and might know of the reason.
Is there a list of known apps that cause memory 'drain' or don't clear their cache. I can understand apps caching data into memory to run faster, but they are not cleaning themselves out upon exit. The strange thing is how they continue to grow over the course of the day with no interaction.
I'm doing a hard reset to see if it get better. Add apps one at a time until I find an issue.

Ok did a hard reset. Setup Outlook to get my mail from Exchange and Gmail. Let it get synced and then did a soft reset. Started with 24mb after reset, down to 21mb without doing anything after an hour and it's still falling. The only thing running is ActiveSync. I've also removed htc_cm_guardain and ssdaemon from the startup. The only thing in startup is poutlook.
The thing I noticed when I had handyswitcher installed (before hard reset) was that filesys, device, gwes, services, shell and cprog all continously increased there memory consumption over the course of a few hours and never stopped or released it.

hansolos said:
I wasn't blaming the Titan directly, although I wish they would allow you to adjust the memory like they have in the past. But as I've read that may having something to do with chipset of battery consumption.
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Click to collapse
No no no... the reason you used to be able to select storage vs RAM was because it was SHARED memory! It was actually all RAM. If you had a 64MB device, that 64mb was split between ram and storage, and just like the rest of your RAM, it would wipe out when the battery died!
Ever since WM5 came along, they stopped sharing the memory, and now have dedicated RAM and Storage (using the leftover space on the EPROM chips used for the ROM image), much like a computer. This is a much better solution since you don't sacrifice your RAM for storing some large files, and you don't have to worry about battery failure cleaning you out!
Also, its not the apps that have cache, its the file system. The file system WILL actually free up some of that memory as the device is left with all apps closed for a while (maybe not all of it, but I've watched my device go from 11mb free after closing stuff to 18-19mb).

You guys need to hit the easy button on this one! It may not be a permanent fix, but there's a small freeware called Oxios Hibernate that releases RAM. I just put it on my start menu and 2 clicks....I have free RAM. Try it out, you won't be disappointed.

bam, thanks for the info... that little app rocks.

use a file explorer and go to \Windows\Startup. There is a shortcut there for a program along the lines of HTC_Guardian_cmsomething. This app is a htc app used to enforce sprint settings and runs in the background. So long as you don't destroy your phone internet settings you can just remove the shortcut. I found all my memory leak issues have gone away. I don't have any leaks when using the kaiser tab plugin.

Yes I've removed the links for HTC_Guardian and SSDaemon from startup and added them to my settings folder (if I ever need them). I soft reset to around 25mb and the Oxios Hibernate app keeps me around 24.5mb.

what does SDdaemon do?

sddaemon is suppose to be the speed dial or voice command app you get when you hit the button on the left side with the talk bubble. It loads the app if you hit the button, so I'm not sure why they have it in startup.

On my old Treo 700W, which REALLY had a memory problem, I used Oxios hibernate all the time. It works quite well.

yes, it works.
bam099 said:
You guys need to hit the easy button on this one! It may not be a permanent fix, but there's a small freeware called Oxios Hibernate that releases RAM. I just put it on my start menu and 2 clicks....I have free RAM. Try it out, you won't be disappointed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

you know what might help...if windows mobile had some sorta sorta disk caching feature...

that's what is causing the memory leak.

great tips. thanks.
hansolos said:
Yes I've removed the links for HTC_Guardian and SSDaemon from startup and added them to my settings folder (if I ever need them). I soft reset to around 25mb and the Oxios Hibernate app keeps me around 24.5mb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

If I don't fix it, I will have to hard reset.

This sucks. Everything was going great but for someone reason lately, I am having trouble turning on my XV6800 from standby. Some times I have to hit the power button more then once. Or wait for a couple of seconds then it turns on. It is not dependent on the power button, because when I switched it to turn on when any button is on, it still won't turn on. What does get it out for good is if there is a call or a text that wakes its self up. But other times the power button works great.
I would love to solve this problem! I used SKTools to see what is running as soon as I hit the power button and hit it again to turn on. Both TimeWizard.exe and shell32.exe are at hundred for that second. Is that ok/normal? Have any suggestings before I hard reset?
If I do hard reset, I am wondering if instead of going to MR1 I should go with a WM6.5 rom. Is it really more trouble then its worth? I get about 21 of 22MB at startup (aftering clearing ram in beginning). What's the average for WM6.5 with the titan? I rather fix my problem and not hard reset, hate to reinstall all the software and do all the registry hacks all over again.
edit: Looks like this is an issue (a lot of people had it) that cannot be solved without hard reseting. So I still need to decide what route (MR1 or WM6.5) to go with...

I personally like 6.5. With the inclusion of a tool called nueKernel, many ROMs will boot with up to 28ish MB of RAM in high memory mode on a fresh install. In low memory mode, it's usually between 20 and 22. High memory mode, if you aren't aware, temporarily disables the camera. Low memory mode enables the camera. You can switch back and forth easily using a setting in your System menu.
Also, make note of any tools you currently use on your Today screen. Any third party additions may not exist for the new Titanium layout. There are a bunch of new add-ins for it that will most likely do everything that you need, but do some poking around first. You can also use the older today screen on 6.5 if you can't find what you need for Titanium, but that ruins a lot of the fun.
Since you use SKTools, you can also easily export any registry tweaks you put in, and re-import them on whichever ROM you decide to use. It's fairly easy.
There are a number of ROMs to choose from between XDA and ppcgeeks. Read some of the comments and check out what the chef includes. It will be pretty different than the official Verizon ROM you are used to, but that's usually a good thing. I currently use bbsandkm's 6.5 ROM from ppcgeeks, but that's personal preference. Ryan and TPLane here on XDA make some amazing ROMs that you can use, too.
But before you flash to any non-official ROM, please make sure you read up on the guides to do it properly. It's really pretty simple, but you need to just follow the directions.

Is the around 20MB the amount with Titanium? I love HTC Home since I can use the Today calendar. All these new plugins never show the complete day of apointments.
Yeah I would have to do some reading before I even consider. I do know I would have to downgrade to the original 6.0 OS before going custom. Would I have to go back to 6.0 again and then 6.1 if I decide I don't like 6.5? Already getting scared just thinking about it lol.

segadc said:
Is the around 20MB the amount with Titanium? I love HTC Home since I can use the Today calendar. All these new plugins never show the complete day of apointments.
Yeah I would have to do some reading before I even consider. I do know I would have to downgrade to the original 6.0 OS before going custom. Would I have to go back to 6.0 again and then 6.1 if I decide I don't like 6.5? Already getting scared just thinking about it lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In high memory mode after installing all my programs, I start with between 25 and 26 meg free. That is using Titanium.
The only reason (I think) that you'd need to downgrade to 6.0 is if your GPS does not work after your upgrade. And no, you wouldn't need to re-install 6.1 during the process.

Downgrade is necessary if you have a pri of 2.03xx and want gps to work on your custom rom.

I got so sick of this problem I just hard resetted and went for MR1. I will switch to WM6.5 maybe later in the future.
However, I notice my Titan did it again today! It barely has anything on it right now. So I am guessing my memory card might be the problem. So much stuff on it (its a 16GB) like portable apps, every cab I have ever downloaded etc. That's my only guess. Would a memory card be causing this problem?

segadc said:
I got so sick of this problem I just hard resetted and went for MR1. I will switch to WM6.5 maybe later in the future.
However, I notice my Titan did it again today! It barely has anything on it right now. So I am guessing my memory card might be the problem. So much stuff on it (its a 16GB) like portable apps, every cab I have ever downloaded etc. That's my only guess. Would a memory card be causing this problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you are experiencing is a DSOD (dark screen of death). Usually its because of something installed to your storage card that is always running(not good, things like that need installed to device memory). Also make sure you have no .exe's in the 2577 folder on storage card (if you have the folder).
Here are some possible examples of DSOD's
Disable the automatic ActiveSync checking. This is the official solution from Verizon Data Technical Support.
Do not install software on the storage card that might trigger automatically. That means: Absolutely no today plug-ins, no ring tones, nothing that runs in the background, and nothing that could accidentally be triggered if you hit one of the buttons of your device.
Do not store data that might be accessed automatically. Same thing. Basically, do not store mail attachments on the storage card if you have wireless sync.
Close programs that use the storage card before turning your device off. Magic Button is an excellent tool to do this.
If you do install programs on the storage card, do NOT use the "Programs" window or the start menu to start them. Instead, use a File Explorer to run them. If you use "Programs" or the start menu, that program will be in your list of recently accessed applications in the start menu. So the next time you turn your device on and click on the start menu, the system will access your storage card to load the icon of the application - this will create a noticeable delay of several seconds, if not DSOD.
Don't randomly install crap. Every single piece of software you install could interfere with your system. Limit the software you install to what you really need. Check the forums, some people named a few programs that explicitly did not work for them.
I hope this helps you out.

Wow thanks, that helps a lot!
edit: Not my day. Don't ask me why but I decided to clean some registry after cleaning up my card. Well I deleted something that effects me to not see the verizon mobile site. I posted about it before here. At least now I know what I did wrong with that problem. Anyway, if I were to hard reset, will it revert back to a clean MR1 with all the Verizon stuff? So far I have been just reinstalling MR1 which does it all. The reason I ask is I hate to wait until tonight to do this again. Thanks guys.

RyanMogul6800 said:
What you are experiencing is a DSOD (dark screen of death). Usually its because of something installed to your storage card that is always running(not good, things like that need installed to device memory). Also make sure you have no .exe's in the 2577 folder on storage card (if you have the folder).
Here are some possible examples of DSOD's
Disable the automatic ActiveSync checking. This is the official solution from Verizon Data Technical Support.
Do not install software on the storage card that might trigger automatically. That means: Absolutely no today plug-ins, no ring tones, nothing that runs in the background, and nothing that could accidentally be triggered if you hit one of the buttons of your device.
Do not store data that might be accessed automatically. Same thing. Basically, do not store mail attachments on the storage card if you have wireless sync.
Close programs that use the storage card before turning your device off. Magic Button is an excellent tool to do this.
If you do install programs on the storage card, do NOT use the "Programs" window or the start menu to start them. Instead, use a File Explorer to run them. If you use "Programs" or the start menu, that program will be in your list of recently accessed applications in the start menu. So the next time you turn your device on and click on the start menu, the system will access your storage card to load the icon of the application - this will create a noticeable delay of several seconds, if not DSOD.
Don't randomly install crap. Every single piece of software you install could interfere with your system. Limit the software you install to what you really need. Check the forums, some people named a few programs that explicitly did not work for them.
I hope this helps you out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, you learn something new every day! Amazing writeup.

It happened again last night but I am thinking it might be caused by the latest SKTools. But not sure since I had it almost a month before this happened. I might go all day without it and see if that is the case. Then if it is the I will get the lower version.
Also, I am going crazy here, which registry edit is to take away the keyboard lag? I cannot remember if it had to do with increasing the gyphe or whatever maybe taking away the speed of the keyboard when it lights up. I just cannot remember. I looked at tons of posts here and PPcgeeks but still cannot find or figure out which one did it. Thanks guys. I need to seriously remember these registry hacks for next time.
ok: it was not SKtools. I put it back on. I decided to wipe my memory card clean and start over. So far so good! Now I will have time to find some registry edits.

15 mins to get up and running after soft reset :S

hey first thing i want to say is this phone is amazing and it blows away everything and anything i have had in the past (ok not my 360 though).
but in the last 2 weeks ive noticed whenever i perform a soft reset, mainly because of some program freezing, it takes an enormous time for the phone to recover functionality. i mean, that when i turn the phone on, i see the pink circle appear and then the t-mobile logo, after that the Launching HTC Sense shows and then it takes about 2 mins to completely show the home screen, i.e. clock tabs calender, notification bar and all.
thats all fine, but then when i try to scroll through the home screen tabs at the bottom it jitters and is extremely unresponsive moving after like 30 secs to 3 tabs. its the same with the start button, when i try to scroll down the apps its really slow and does the same jitters and when i select something it just does that 4 colour dots loading thing.
it happens every single time after a soft reset, however if i turn the phone on and leave it aside for around 15 mins then when i try to scroll through tabs or apps it works a treat, like nothing was wrong with it.
please can someone help me, i dont know if its some start up programs causing it or some registry tweak that needs to be applied to correct it. but any help is greatly appreciated and thank you
p.s. i have quite a few apps installed :s i installed resco explorer and through 1 of the apps 'system info', im going to post some of the numbers maybe it might shed some light.
program memory 336.9 MB - used 193.86 Mb (58%)
storage memory 214.7 MB - used 204.99 MB (95%)
storage card 1.8 GB - used 1.78 GB (97%)
here is a list of the things under \Windows\StartUp
BTTrayCE
DelWMPTempFolder
HTCStartUp
PKG
poutlook
RunGNAgent
XMmobiresetter

I suspect its down to having a shiny new toy and access to this "sweetshop" of a forum that's at the heart of the issue here. I too had similar problems earlier today when my storage memory dipped even lower than your's that resulted in pop up messages from windows warning me about critically low ammounts of storage and telling me to remove some installed or redundant files to improve performance..cue bye bye to co-pilot as I dont use it and things have improved considerably.Amongst the stuff I've installed are Tomtom navigator 7, Garmin mobile XT,Igo8.3.4,ACR hd,Totall commander,Resco file explorer,myplayer,Zoomer,skyfire,BsB Tweaks and a slack handfull of games...(all of them installed to the SD card which is now almost at capacity...roll on getting my 16gb card )

These two programs (RunGNAgent, XMmobiresetter) are not in my startup folder, so try to delete them (before deleting backup them), and see if that helps.

first of all thanks to terrytpot and Mikulec.
ill try to uninstall some apps and try an reduce the memory as much as i can and see if i notice an improvement. hopefully that'll work and ill also do the backup of the 2 files and delete them from the startup.
thanks again
P.S. if anyone has anymore ideas that would greatly appreciated. thank you

rungna.exe what is it, explained
well I did some experiments with this rungnagent.exe. witch apeared to be in my startup folder.
I installed sbp-safemode (just in case i would crash the phone (ps im having a samsung i-780).
then i moved the rungna.exe to my storragecard (away from any bootup options)
I shutted my phone down holding the on/off button and restarted it.
instead of waiting 2 minutes for the phone to startup I could scroll trough start, my homescreen and apps (really fast) within 20 seconds, wich was the startup-time when i got the phone .
I made sure that all my apps were still working and guess what they did not have any complications to any backgrounded or foregrounded apps.
I was starting to get very curious about what this app would be.
I loaded the program to my windows 7 desktop-pc and scanned it using filealyzer from savernetworking (the makers of spybot search and destroy).
the file seems to be a .net executable microsoft visual c# v.7.0 . net program with the following funtions in the hex-strings (the commands given to a program on how to funtion) and the behaviour is (in my case):
check the installed files from the program google navigator.
there's also in te hextext that it has to open google navigator trough a link in the windows folder named Google "Navigator.ink"
so when you deïnstall google navigator (in my case I did that because the software was crap). it can't load and run it's intergration with the system at startup and may hook your mobile phone down at that very same startup. the makers of the software just made a mistake in their deïnstall executable because it doesn't remove this specific file. (google navigator is not google maps google navigator is a 3d navigation program using google maps you can find their software on pdafun.net)
so when you deïnstalled the program just put the file somewhere on the phone (just in case) or at least remove it from your startup folder.
So this would mean: Problem solved thread closed XD

ps
my phone stoped freezing when i deleted this startup entry so for some reason it also hooked up the system when you opend more than 5 regular apps. having you to reset the phone all the time. those problems are gone now .
I would suggest that you install spb pocket plus buy it (or bittorent it XD). the software has many handy features with one in specific being very handy. the boot in safemode option.
when your phone crashes 2 times (so you stik your stilus in the resethole 2 times) it comes up with a special bootscreen giving you 2 options boot regular or boot in safe mode.
boot in safe mode means you startup your phone without loading any registry entries or boot commands. you just get a blank screen (no deskapps, tochflow, home shells, etc). with the regular startbutton and all programs and settings. meaning you can fix the phone when it crashed.
fixing means not having to do rom-resets (while worrying about contact backups, messages and all those apps you installed and have to reïnstall from scratch when hardresetting).
good luck with ya pocket personal computer XD.
amonfog
ps: thread still closed XD