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Instaead of Hi I say you are great people
So the case is... I just need to have working Qtek 1010 with SOME additional soft on it inside a ROM...
I've read many pages in this forum and I'm able to find too many ways to change my ROM. I'm totaly confused.
I work for extremaly big worldwide company and they gave me q Qtek, told me to use it, gave me one simple application and web link... so I do.
But the Qtek is much powerfull than that so I need to flash my ROM.
Now comes a question: where can I find one document how to prepare for it, what tools do I need, how to do it... I know after some tries I will be confident enough to do such stuff easlily, my problem is I have only one try, they will make me w trouble if I screw my company recource.
I understand you had milion similar questions like that. Basicly I need help how to flash so I can be sure 100% not less that I can recover in case of trouble. I hope you understand I'm afraid to do it because lack of experience and you are able to tell me if I should try to flash...
or maybe it's better for me to ask my boss to by me a 512 MB SD and install all additional soft on it and stop worring about memory?
I'd appreciate any opinion... you are the best and I'm just new to this bussines...
Get an sd card, backup existing rom to sd card, very easy to do by bootloader method. Enter bootloader by holding down power while inserting stylus in the reset hole on the bottom left of pda then press top right function key, then choose ce to sd. Once you have done this you can check if it has in fact backed up your rom by putting sd card in the pda, enter bootloader, it will then give the option to program the rom, just remove the card and push the reset with stylus again, the other method to check a working backup is to put the sd card in the pda, the pda will ask to format it, say no and remove it. Once you have a backup you can either use xdatools to copy it to your pc or keep it in a safe place, no more files must be written to this card otherwise it will be rendered useless, if you wish to reuse the card sometime it will need formatting. Once you have your backup, go to www.yorch.net, cook yourself a rom and download it in the exe format, this will do a normal install from your pc while connected to pda via activesync, if it messes up you always have your backup. Once you become more proficient at using xdatools you might wish to try out lots of different roms until you are happy with the result, you can go on to sd card flashing which is a much better way of programming rom and much less prone to error because it doesnt rely on a pc connection. I would advise you to leave the radio stack alone, if you can make and receive call ok leave it alone. Have a thorough look around the forum before proceeding. Its good fun to program your pda and you can make it a much better tool, but make sure you always have a way out if things go wrong.
www.yorch.net not working... is there a place like that?
Hi!
I read the above post, one of the clearest here, and I almost got the confidence to finally do this ROM update...
But:
1) Can't find the www.yorch.net website where I could "cook myself a rom and dowload it in a .exe format"
2)It's still not very clear to me what exactly cooking a ROM means: it concerns the OS (the version 1.53, 1.72 type of stuff), the extended ROM (the default programs u get starting after and hard reset like the SW for the camera etc) or both?
Thanks!!!
Chris
Another ROM Kitchen
Try the following ROM Kitchen http://lumpistefan.dyndns.org/
I noticed that you have the XDAII. Now, someone please correct me if I'm wrong but the directions above and the ROM kitchens are all for the XDA I or Wallaby version.
Re: www.yorch.net not working... is there a place like that?
cchris said:
Hi!
I read the above post, one of the clearest here, and I almost got the confidence to finally do this ROM update...
But:
1) Can't find the www.yorch.net website where I could "cook myself a rom and dowload it in a .exe format"
2)It's still not very clear to me what exactly cooking a ROM means: it concerns the OS (the version 1.53, 1.72 type of stuff), the extended ROM (the default programs u get starting after and hard reset like the SW for the camera etc) or both?
Thanks!!!
Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Chris,
Those Roms are made for XDA1 beware it's not made for the device you have!!!!!!
What's the kitchen for XDA II
THANK YOU!
I was starting on the wrong foot... :-( :?
Anyway a couple of more question:
1) Is there a place like that for XDA II Kitchen? Is my undestanding of what a kitchen is correct?
2) The process for ROM backup outlined above, is still correct for XDA II?
Thanks!
Chris
I'm in the same boat as you CChris. I've been diligently a daily searching through the numerous topics on this site looking for similar information. I haven't found it yet - or at least nothing not-to-super-technical. I do know that you get to the bootloader by pressing the power button, reset button, and down on the toggle at the same time rather than the Wallaby way of the power and reset buttons only. It also seems that there are issues regarding 'country' and that it requires software to get around this. I haven't found the software yet - the links that I've seen all point to "itsme's" website which is currently down.
You can read the thread here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=9053&highlight=
Hopefully, someone with a lot more knowledge than me can go over updating the XDA II as clearly as cruisin-thru did for the XDA I.
The instructions on http://wiki.xda-developers.com/wiki/HimalayaRomFlashing are correct.
Unfortunately, there was an issue where the wiki removed the ~ from itsme's website's address. It's been replaced with %7e and now the link works.
If you download a ROM from the same vendor as your device (e.g. Qtek ROM on Qtek device, iMate ROM on iMate device, etc.) you don't need to use these instructions, you can just install the ROM upgrade from your vendor.
If you want to use the latest ROM (from iMate) and your device isn't an iMate, you need to decrypt, change the "country" code, encrypt, and then run the upgrade.
You can also edit the extended ROM when flashing, but it's easier to use itsme's extRom Tools. See http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=8422
You do NOT need to flash the ROM if you are not experiencing problems, or if you are experiencing problems which the new ROM also has (for example ugly cleartype fonts, which may be fixed without flashing). Flashing the ROM may void your warrantee. You will lose all your data when you upgrade, and you should not restore a backup, only your my documents folder.
If you are a newbie, it may be best not to flash your ROM. If you typed in itsme in google, you would have found his xs4all address as the third link, and would have quickly found out his site wasn't down at all, but the link was just wrong.
Just a warning: the things that could go wrong when flashing are potentially much worse than a wrong URL, and the answer to those problems won't be the third link in google.
NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO DON'T COME NEAR THE RADIO UPGRADE I QUOTE I FRIEND HERE THAT SAYS
DON'T MESS UP WITH A WORKING RADIO OR YOU'LL END UP WITH A SLIVER BRICK !!!!!!!!!
BEEN THEIR :x :x :x :x
Rabia said:
NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO DON'T COME NEAR THE RADIO UPGRADE I QUOTE I FRIEND HERE THAT SAYS
DON'T MESS UP WITH A WORKING RADIO OR YOU'LL END UP WITH A SLIVER BRICK !!!!!!!!!
BEEN THEIR :x :x :x :x
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rabia can you tell me how did you get out from there?
never got out of it
Hi guys,
First of all, I'm really new to this(learning all the time!) as I just got my O2 mini 2days ago from ebay.
I have a problem whereby my phone doesn't have smart dial function. I've spent hours reading the threads and trying but to no avail.
Can anyone kind ppl out there help me pls?
FYI, under "device information/version/ExtROM version" section is BLANK. Is this normal?
Really appreciate anyone that can help me out. Thanks a lot!
You can download and install the cab file attached.
Thx Zerimar!!!
But I toy around more with my phone I realise that my phone doesn't even have the ExtROM installed at all! That's main culprit for those missing functions. I don't even have MMS function installed
Can you kindly share with me a complete ExtROM that has all the preloaded softwares?
And also can you give me so simple instructions on how to put back the ExtROM in the phone (I'm really new...)
Again, really appreciate your help!!! Thx man....
I suggest that you keep your Mini the way it is (with BigStorage ROM). The advantages are;
1. You can choose which customization software from O2 to install.
2. 27MB is gained for installing 3rd party software, ie. Navigationi softare, Destktop enhancements, etc.
Before you upgraded your Mini, did you keep a backup of the original ROM and/or the Extended ROM? If you have a backup of your Extended ROM then all you have to do is to copy the .CAB files you want to the SD card, main memory, or storage and to install the .CAB files just click on them from where it was copied to.
If you don't have your Extended ROM backup, then I suggest you go to this forums ftp or wiki and download what you need. I don't have the complete Extended ROM .CAB files since I only keep what I like/need. Secondly, my unit is a generic since here in Switzerland we can buy the units without any contract, or when we renew our contract, we can get a new phone but usually it is a generic model. Out of the 3 providers here, only Orange SIM locks and makes customization to the units.
If still you prefer to put your Mini back to its original form, then all you have to do is to flash your Mini with your ROM backup (if you have it), otherwise download from the ftp any of the latest ROMs available.
Very good advice here.... makes me understand more now.
Ok, I agree with you to keep it's current status now.
I did not upgrade my mini, I bought it new from ebay, thus there is no backup ROM or ExtROM available.
I'm not able to use this forum's ftp. This is how I try, I paste below link in IE,
ftp://xda:[email protected]/Magician
user:xda
paswd:xda
I'm denied access. Any idea on this?
Thx...
by the way, Switzerland is really a nice & beautiful country... Love it!
In your first post you mentioned that "device information/version/ExtROM version" section is BLANK, this somehow indicates that the Mini is configured with BS.
Check using File Explorer or via Active Sync. If you see a folder called Storage from My Device via File Explorer, or My Pocket PC via Active Sync then it's configured with BS. The other way to find out is to do a hard reset by pressing (and keep pressed) the Camera+Power button while pressing the reset switch. Note: This will eventually erase all your data. Be sue to backup first. If you did a hard reset, then at some point in time you will see that something is being installed automatically, meaning no BS.
For more info and guidance, check out the following threads contributed by very generous and dedicated members.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=46628
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=33305
As for downloading files from the ftp, you should be logged in. The link you attached works perfectly for me. You could also use a ftp client software like CuteFtp.
ps. yep, CH is a nice country but quite expensive. If my memory serves me right, Zurich is the 3rd most expensive city in the world. I guess the only things cheaper here are the Swiss watches, Swiss knives, Swiss cheese, and Swiss chocolates (yummie) :lol:
Hey... it's working now! Thx to you, hehehe.... :lol:
So far so good after I manage to pull out the ExtROM using cuteFTP. Now in experimental mode to try out different stuffs.... getting more interesting.
If I do encounter any problem, I'll post again and hope you can help me once more
I miss the Swiss chocs.... yummy (especially white ones)... hopefully I can go there again soon. Btw, love the Swiss army too!
You're most welcome. Whenever you need help, continue posting on this thread or pm me.
Please please reply it.
I want to make my application part of ROM my three PDAs. ( I have XDA2i, PDA2K and K-Jam), so machine will have application after hard reset. (i don’t want to write FLASH Memory \Storage\1257 etc i think any one can delete that)
Q1) is there any installer available which deploy to ROM and make desired application part of ROM.
Q2) to upgrade any ROM , is it must to have base ROM ?
I really thankful for your feedbacks
Khurram
Hi Khurram!
There are no installers that can put apps in to device ROM. If you want to add to the ROM you need to do the following:
1)Extract ROM image (or get one for your device from somewhere).
2)Decrypt the image (nbf file) and extract all files.
3)Add your app
4)Repackage and encrypt the image.
5)Reflash your device with the new image.
The tools to do it are on this site (check out ROM kitchen), but this is a complicated process, and there is a good chance you will wind up with a useless device which won't boot.
So you should read up on ROM cooking and be very careful when altering ROM images.
Good luck!
Hello levenum,
Great reply , thanks a lot . you are the only person who replied me now and in past as well.
in past, you suggested the "file store".
Problem: it is not a secure way , any person can remove it from the device.
does any one have idea about Extended ROM or any other secure and risk free way ?
Thanks
[/list]
Hi Khurram!
When you first posted you didn't specify your program was sensitive, and you didn't want people deleting it.
If it's really important Extended ROM is not good ether since it can be unlocked and manipulated just like the File store. There are unlocking tools in this forum.
If your program is some kind of anti-theft app. (in case your phone gets stolen) the only way to ensure no one messes with it is to put it in ROM.
Of course even then someone could re-flash the device with an original ROM,
so nothing is 100% secure.
Great , really impressed in way you picked my point.
i am working on such a application , actually 3 months ago I lost my newly purchased XDA2i , luckily i got that back with the help of mobile operator but I want to developed such a application which will lock the machine totally and will not allow re-flashing as well.
Q: stop to re-flash is possible?
Q: any existing tools for anti-theft ( i saw something at ROM Kitchen but it is for specific versions only)
any further help will be appreciated.
Thanks Again.
Yes, there are projects like this here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=46174
Although, I don't remember anyone trying to put the app in ROM.
As for preventing device from re-flashing:
It is possible theoretically, but would require serious programming skills, and good knowledge of hardware.
There is a special program, called bootloader, which is responsible for loading the OS or writing a ROM update to the device. The only way to prevent re-flashing would be to write one of your own, and even then getting it on the device would be tricky.
Any way, that kind of knowledge is way beyond me.
But I do have one question you should consider:
Does your program need to save data, like SIM details for authorized SIMs or changing password?
Since this data cannot be written to ROM dynamiccaly, you would have to compile your program for each user\device specifically, and the password would have to be hard coded.
yes my application will be extention of existing security tools with more control of device something confidentional :twisted: .
the only problem is prevent from deletion so thats why i am worried about it
I didn't mean for you to tell me what your program saves.
I just wanted to point out that while preventing a program from being deleted is possible (I don't think many thieves would bother re-flashing a device, specially if your program would make it look as if the device is malfunctioning and not locked, only the user will know what to do)
its impossible to save settings so they will not be deleted.
If you are making this program only for your self, than fixed password, or SIM info is not a problem, but if you intend this for other people you will have to come up with some solution to store the settings securely.
At leas for this you may have to use the File store.
hi all
i cant install alot of my favourite softwares such as SPB , i dont know why? can anyone tell me the reason plz?
shadows of yesterday said:
hi all
i cant install alot of my favourite softwares such as SPB , i dont know why? can anyone tell me the reason plz?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can't help you or tell you the reason because you are not giving enough details about what you are trying to install, what is going wrong. How are you trying to install. Exe or .cab files. are you just getting error's during the installation
i tried to install .cab & .exe , but it says install unsuccessful, for example SPB & Battery status
mmmm
On what ?... is the cab on the phone or on the PC ???????
i tried both , but i couldnt
You have the HTC Touch Elf right? No cabs at all are instaling on your phone.
Possibiliites:
1. The cab files are being currupted either while you are downloading them or while you are sending them to your phone. FYI Cab files are to be installed via your phone not PC. Transfer the complete cab to phone and just click it to install - Do Not Unzip it. (A cab file looks like it is a zip file or a rar file wen it is on your PC but don't be fooled. it is a cab and does not need to be unzipped) you will only see a bunch of messy files and will just get confuzed. just place the cab on your phone and tap it with your stylus to initiate install
Exe's are to be installed via your PC to your phone through activsinc. place the exe on your desktop (Or wherever) and connect your phone to your PC using Activsinc. Then click the exe on your desktop and follow installation instructions - NOte you will have to still do some clicking on your phone to allow the installation.
2. you are not installing them properly and therfore follow instructions above.
3. your phone is currupt somehow (I don't see how) Try a hard reset and see if the programs will install after that. if not, you might want to return your phone for warranty (I am assuming you just got this phone and this is the first time you are trying to install something.
4. Maybe you have run out of room on your device to install any more applications (if you have been installing tons of other stuff successfully)
I have never gotten any errors installing cabs or exe's exept for when I was trying to install something that my phone did not support. (Not a valid WM application) or something like that.
Edit: You still are not give us much information - What type of error are you getting - What does your phone show/tell you?
Does it start to install and fail half way through? does it not start at all? does it install and the programs just do not run?
Tell us what program you are trying to install - what error you are getting and when you are getting it. Tell us the method you have used to install it etc....
If you want help you will have to provide us with as much information and detail as you can. Otherwise - Good Luck.
I will check back here regularly to see your response and try to help, but if you don't give us much more detail - no one will be able to help you.
Did you flashed your ROM recently?
it start to install and fail half way through, but not all of the softwares , for example i cant install tcpmp,wm router , battery status , and alot of softwares , the error is always the same ( it start to install and fail half way through)
shadows of yesterday said:
it start to install and fail half way through, but not all of the softwares , for example i cant install tcpmp,wm router , battery status , and alot of softwares , the error is always the same ( it start to install and fail half way through)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about battery status or wm router but TCPMP is an exe type installation. if you try to install this using your phone by putting the TCPMP installation on your phone and clicking to install, it won't work. You have to put the installation file on your computer, connect your device to your computer through activesinc. then click the TCPMP Installation on your desktop and follow instructions. Make sure you accept installation on your device when your device asks. The others may be the same
i did like that , but nothing changed , same message , install unsuccessful
shadows of yesterday said:
i did like that , but nothing changed , same message , install unsuccessful
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you trying to install to your storage card or to device? Are you certain that you have enough storage space left?
Do you have any problems with Activsinc?
Have you tried downloading another copy of TCPMP - Maybe the copy you have is no good.
yeh , i tried on both storage and device memory , i have 1.5 gb remaining on storage also
my active sync is working in perfect condition, i dont know wht happend , ok , is there anything that i can upgrade my phone ???
DuelMasterNG said:
Did you flashed your ROM recently?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You never answered the above question.
shadows of yesterday said:
yeh , i tried on both storage and device memory , i have 1.5 gb remaining on storage also
my active sync is working in perfect condition, i dont know wht happend , ok , is there anything that i can upgrade my phone ???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know if I can help you with this problem. I have never had any problems installing anything onto my device even when the app wasn't compatible. usually still installed, just wouldn't run. I am still using official stock WM 6.0 rom that came on my device. (have not ever flashed a new ROM or Radio and don't know anything about that. If you did flash a new ROM or radio, that could be what is causing your problems and you may want to examine in the thread where you got your ROM or Radio from for answers or to see if anyone else is having the same difficulties. Perhaps PM the person who cooked the ROM. If you havn't flashed any new ROM or Radio, then maybe you changed something in your registry that you shouldn't have with a registry editor (just a thought - don't know if you have ever done this) or maybe you have an app on your phone that is causing conflict when trying to install other apps. You can always try a hard reset of your device (if you don't mind starting from scratch again customizing your device) and then try installing TCPMP and see if it works right after a hard reset. That would suggest either something was changed in your registry or that another app was causing conflict. Bit of a pain in the a## having to reinstall everything(unless you don't have much installed on your device) and still no guarantee that it will work. Before doing a hard reset, you might want to look into backing up your device. (I don't know anyting about backing up - what program to use or how much it can back up such as setting or such but you might want to check it out. Also make sure you sincronize your device with your computer prior to hard reset so that all your contacts, appointments etc... are up to date that way after a hard reset you can just syncronize your device again and get your contacts and appointments etc... back.
If anyone else has any suggestions here -- Please feel free to jump in. I know that I would be really annoyed not being able to install new apps to my device.
Good luck. I hope this gets figured out for you
Rod
i had the same problem, it was unbelievably frustrating, i had to restore my X1i to factory settings, that fixed the problem.
I think you should follow hotrod101's suggestion and do a hard reset. Its quite likely that your phone has malfunctioned or something. It's probably going to save you a lot of work in the long run. Or turn in your device in one of the HTC service centers as already stated. Don't forget to back all your stuff up first.
Good Luck.
thanx alot
you did not say whether your rom is original or coked as i met some problems with cocked roms in installing arabic based applications that was easily installed before flashing me device
Did you get things figured out - If so please share with the rest what you did to solve your problem, in case others are having similar problems. Did one of our suggestions help or did you find another solution?
same problem on my Touch Pro, seams to be common ... some say that it is due to the fixed number (50 installed programs) on the touch flue ... however, I have no more information of how did they got this result, or what is the registry of this issue???
I hope if someone help on this to avoide us the headache cused by hard reset, just thinking about it make me crazy.
even hard reset is not a solution.
Hi there.
I've just bought a Touch 3g with Orange in France, and even though the box has WiFi written all over it, it appears that I can only connect to Orange WiFi hubs. I have a different hub at home and would like to know whether I can unlock the WiFi function so that it is free to work with any WiFi connection.
I've had a look on here and can't find the answer to my question. I apologise in advance if I've missed the thread somewhere.
Thanks for any help you can give me.
PS - As someone new to this geek lark, I'd also be interested in knowing what programs I really ought to install onto the phone. You're top 5 programmes if you like.
The orange branded phones (if they are the same as the uk ones) have the unique manager not the standard wifi one. So even if you have an orange wifi hub you still don't get a wifi connection (at least not one you can do anything useful with)
Unique is a wierd orange version of voip.
The only way of changing it (i think) would be to flash a new rom to the phone.
Hi,
I got a French Orange phone too that I have flashed to non-Orange ROM, so Wifi works OK.
For programs I would recommend SBP Mobile Shell to replace Touch Flo, and TrackMe to have fun with the GPS ( I find it awesome).
Bonne chance
TrackMe does not work on my Jade (.net 3.5 installed), but I can recommend GPS Cycle Computer as well. Supports a lot of data formats, check the link or the xda-dev-thread for more information.
Thanks very much for all your help. I'll have a look at flashing the ROM and will give that a go.
Is flashing Rom a particularly complicated or potentially phone breaking experience? It's my wife's new phone, and I don't want to live with an angry woman whose phone no longer works
DaM79 said:
TrackMe does not work on my Jade (.net 3.5 installed), but I can recommend GPS Cycle Computer as well. Supports a lot of data formats, check the link or the xda-dev-thread for more information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you install SQL Compact framework as well ?
Billy Ze Feesh said:
Thanks very much for all your help. I'll have a look at flashing the ROM and will give that a go.
Is flashing Rom a particularly complicated or potentially phone breaking experience? It's my wife's new phone, and I don't want to live with an angry woman whose phone no longer works
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it's not complicated ; yes is very much potentially phone breaking
FYI I flashed HardSPLv3 on my phone (see Jade ROM forum) , downloaded the kitchen (idem), built a ROM using htcrt (in the kitchen) and the OS.nb found here http://www.planete-htc.com/index.php?mod=forum&ac=voir&ref=20&cat=220&id=18955, and flashed it. And tada, a stock french phone with wifi access.
Your SPL/ROM will degrade from 1.7 to 1.4 though.
OK. Thanks Gomi. I'll have a look and see if I really want to risk it or not.
Hello @ll.
I have a french Orange Jade too.
The UMA radio ROM make me sick !
But for me, the HardSPL does not work... The RUU progressbar still blocked at 0%.
fyi : I have the SPL 1.71.000 version.
Concerning the HardSPL, i'm not using the original exe, because of the unavailablity of the "server". I use an extracted nbh file of the HardSPLV3.
Any idee ?
fyi : because of specifity of the RUU used to flash the HardSPL, you can not use an another RUU to flash it.
With luck, the HardSPL setup exe have found the server, and now, all is ok !
Hi mate and welcome to the slippery slope. I only have Dad to convert now...
There may be another way to prevent the Orange rubbish crippling your phone - when you do a hard reset your phone will give you three seconds after the first boot-up before it begins to customise the ROM with all the operator-specific stuff. If you do a soft reset within those three seconds you prevent the customisation. If the crippled WiFi is part of this customisation then you'll end up with the default Windows Mobile WiFi manager. This trick used to work on my Universal and my Elf. You can experiment with many hard resets until you get it right.
Having created a vanilla Windows Mobile system you may need to fanny around unlocking the extended ROM and cherry-picking the customisations that you do want (such as the GPRS connection data) but this effort might be worth it to have an unbranded phone.
Flashing a new ROM will almost certainly invalidate your warranty.
(Oh, and a hard reset will wipe off all your data of course.)
Thanks SiliconS.
Have tried that and I don't get the 3 second warning. I just get a message saying that this will wipe the phone (hard reset) and asks me to press 'enter' to continue (which I obviously do). It then tells me:
Format FAT partition
FAT partition complete
before carrying on with all the Orange stuff. Have tried randomly pressing soft reset at various times, and all this does is turn the phone off...
Thanks anyway though.
That's weird. In that case Orange must have embedded their rubbish within the fundamental ROM rather than the extended ROM like everybody else does.
Flashing a completely new ROM may be your only hope, Luke. HTC have released an official ROM for the Jade that surely wouldn't invalidate your warranty...
http://www.htc.com/www/SupportDownload.aspx?p_id=174&cat=2&dl_id=537
I think an official ROM update could be the way forward yeah. I'll have a look this weekend maybe.
for the benefit of people who may be subscribed to this thread, I think I have found a fix for the orange rom using data connection instead of wifi, read on here:-
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4517074&postcount=12
post back to that thread if it works for you!