Weird problem - Compact staying switched off! - JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General

Hello!
So, a brand new MDA Compact, and a weird problem.
Sometimes, when I 'switch it off' via the Power button - it stayes switched off?! :?
Simple as that - the only way to turn it back on is to do a soft-reset... :shock:
The signal LED blinks just like everything is OK...
I tried with 4 different ROM combinations, from 1.06 to 1.13, nothing helped...
Does anybody have an idea what to do with it?
BTW,
which ROM did you find the most fastest, most stable etc.?
Thanx in advance.

Someone must do a sticky or a FAQ topic for this sort of prob that so many people are starting to encounter.
If u do some experiment on ur compact, u can easily see that the device isn't waking up only when is COLD (I believe that there is some heat-sensible contacts inside that prevents unit to power on) this may seems strange, I thought I was the only to had this prob, but I am seeing more and more of this.
Sorry, but unless u want to manually open the whole thing and try to repair for urself, u're better getting it to the nearest repairing center.
If u do so, remember always to install the original ROM, since they can say that is a software manomission problem and will sending u back the device with no warranty (they already did it with me: but I can't believe that I regained the warranty simply putting it the original software and sending it in the same repairing center; before they asked me 275€ for mainboard, now they repaired it for free!!!)
So here is it. I've passed a winter with the unit always in coma. Send it to the repair center, say that it doesn't power on when cold and they will repair it..
Good luck! MocciJ

Someone must do a sticky or a FAQ topic for this sort of prob that so many people are starting to encounter.
If u do some experiment on ur compact, u can easily see that the device isn't waking up only when is COLD (I believe that there is some heat-sensible contacts inside that prevents unit to power on) this may seems strange, I thought I was the only to had this prob, but I am seeing more and more of this.
Sorry, but unless u want to manually open the whole thing and try to repair for urself, u're better getting it to the nearest repairing center.
If u do so, remember always to install the original ROM, since they can say that is a software manomission problem and will sending u back the device with no warranty (they already did it with me: but I can't believe that I regained the warranty simply putting it the original software and sending it in the same repairing center; before they asked me 275€ for mainboard, now they repaired it for free!!!)
So here is it. I've passed a winter with the unit always in coma. Send it to the repair center, say that it doesn't power on when cold and they will repair it..
Good luck! MocciJ

Thanx!
So you say there's no other solution then to take it to the service center?
Damn!
Anybody have an original ROM that came with the Croatian T-Mobile MDA Compact's?
CE ROM in it was 1.06, I am sure of that, but where to find ExtROM that was used here?

As far I know, this is the only possible solve, unless someone decides to open the magician (voiding the warranty) and see what's wrong on it.. For the ROM: u have to install at least a rom with same brand and language of the original; u're better try first at the ftp before searching on the net..

Related

Help! My S100 doesn't wake up when cold?

Hello everibody,
I have an annoying problem: my Qtek sometimes prevents waking up! And only a soft reset can power it on!!!
But the crappiest thing, is that the device doesn't power on when it's cold! I have tested it!!! :shock:
PLZ HELP
It's an hardware prob? It's better to send it to repair? Thx
Oh, another thing :twisted: when the device is power off (and I can't power it on) the green led is still acting like normal, it even stops when no coverage is present. If I try to call to the S100, it rings but I can't do nothing? :?
Great forum, anyway. I have solved nearly ALL of my Qtek probs.
I will add these infos:
ROM: 1.06.04 ITA
RADIO: 1.05.00
Note: I have already tried with an Hard Reset. Nothing resolved. The device simply won't power up when it's below 20° C. And I don't know why.
Your Magician seems to be a candidate for the repair shop of for an exchange. Never heard about a problem like yours
Cheers
Uff... Nobody (except me) have this prob? Can someone try this? Before sending it to repairing, I would figure this s**t out! And maybe find a valid solution...
AND: How can I do the BigStorage trick on my ITA ROM? I know how, but with the other languages... Don't want a foreign ROM only for 20+MB...
I think upgrading the ROM can't change anything, if it's an hardware problem... I want an active device in this winter, cannot reset it all the time!
Possible Solution?
Yet nobody seems to have my prob. But before sending my S100 to the pocket pc heaven, I will explain a possible scenario. I've read that cold can reduce the battery charge dramatically. So what I am thinking:
1) The unit is absolutely normal when warm.
2) When the unit is cold, is STILL normal.
3) When I shut down the unit, the LED is STILL blinking.
4) But then -what the hell- it seems CAN'T turn it to the active status.
5) The only thing that I can do is to RESET the unit. Then when I control the battery status is ALL ok: same level as before. But there isn't the missed calls of who have called me when the unit is in this state!
I think that the low temperature affects the internal battery, reducing it to zero. When the S100 is on this effect couldn't be noticed, because the external battery constantly charges the the internal one. But the charge is not provided when in standby. And so the charge in the internal battery drains... making impossible to turn on the device! But when resetting, the external battery is give power to the internal one, and the device is now fully functional as before.
According to this mess, then I only need to replace the internal battery with anything better, and the device MUST work EVEN if cold...
Now I would like to listen to others, just to convalidate this theory...
Otherwise, the device will make a good and comfortable travel to the repairing center, hoping they will send me a completely new one ( I have accidentally scrachted it one time. And another.)
Hope that you will understand my Huff-Puff post. Hope that someone will see this post.
Cheers,
MocciJ
Yet no replies...
This damn thing has taked too time, and so I'm sending the device to the centre tomorrow...
I've tried to upgrade my old qtek rom to the 1.11 of the I-mate: nothing resolved...
Is it ok to send a device with an imate rom to a qtek centre? Lemme know...
my friend has same problem, I flash radio whit 1.13, 1.12 (rom is 1.12)
I shell open it ....
Click here to read of a similar problem
As far as sending your phone back, which judging by your signature you already have, you need an official rom to be installed if you want it covered by warranty. Not sure on Qtek's policies. Have you sent it yet? What did they say about your Jam rom?
Don't try to make the same thing I did. When try to changing to ANOTHER Rom Manufacturer to see if the problem vanish, remember (at least before sending it) to PUT THE ORIGINAL ROM IN IT!
THEY (AT REPAIRING CENTER) WILL SAY THAT THE SOFT IS CORRUPTED!
This way I avoided my warranty. Hope this info will help.
I'm deciding what to make now. Do I have to pay for this prob, or do I cover my qtek with warm clothes?
Or better find a solution?
If anyone has suggestions, I'm glad to listen. I want my pda back (it stayed out for a month, I miss it!).
Do not make hazardous moves with ur pda when it's in warranty. Or U will pay that the double it's price!
Don't try to make the same thing I did. When try to changing to ANOTHER Rom Manufacturer to see if the problem vanish, remember (at least before sending it) to PUT THE ORIGINAL ROM IN IT!
THEY (AT REPAIRING CENTER) WILL SAY THAT THE SOFT IS CORRUPTED!
This way I avoided my warranty. Hope this info will help.
I'm deciding what to make now. Do I have to pay for this prob, or do I cover my qtek with warm clothes?
Or better find a solution?
If anyone has suggestions, I'm glad to listen. I want my pda back (it stayed out for a month, I miss it!).
Do not make hazardous moves with ur pda when it's in warranty. Or U will pay that the double it's price!
Is there any way you can take it to another repair shop? If I had your problem, ie turning it in with a wrong ROM and being rejected, I would just reflash and drive to another city to have it fixed. They would never know the difference.
If that isn't an option in your country, I guess you will have to pay for the repair, even though it is very unfair, because a 'wrong' ROM can't be the cause of this problem
Thx for this suggestion. Currently I have an Qtek rom perfectly working. But they delivered my Qtek to French for repairing (and I am from Italy), guessing that I haven't that option.
The only thing that I can do to riesumate my warranty is to declare that that rom is OK, downloaded from an official site. The cause is that when the Qtek hasn't made upgraded roms, the imate did. In case, I will say that the problem was there EVEN before the upgrade (it did).
There is currently NO SOLUTION to this problem (it's an hardware problem, and should be repaired by the repairing center -of course-)
-----
I will report what the World Startel Communication (the repairing center) has said (transcribed from italian to english):
1)The product is in delivering phase.
2)The product resulted to be irreparable. It will delivered back.
3)The repairing service has resulted to be out of warranty. We are waiting the consumer to pay the reparation (They said they sent me the price. Currently they seemed to haven't sent nothing).
4)The product has come to our labs.
5)The requested reparation is inserted in our knowledge system.
And that is. The Qtek has delivered, considered irreparable, and when out of warranty is ok for repairing? That's something odd... Considering that I've retrieved how to reach the tracking service only by calling the operator... Now that the S100 is in their labs, they say that the prob is in their knowledge system, which I ignore what it means. Now I suppose that the product reached French before checking the warranty, and this would be to pay something around 10-20€, IF I decide to not repairing the unit...
Ok, that's all. Hoping that this winter isn't getting cold.
Cheers,
MocciJ
Ok, the S100 is in repairing again. They will send me repaired with a price of 50€.
Hope that they will explain me what happened. Otherwise, sending it seems to be the only solution avaible.
They will raise up my warranty, almost that's what I've heard.
So this can be the end of the topic...
Cheers,
MocciJ
They are sending it back, but non-repaired. No cost, but nor warranty at all. They SIMPLY deleted my warranty taking it for 2 months.
Now, what's the real mess with the warranty? Oh yes, the ROM was changed from Qtek to an Imate one, official. They find out that there's a mix between these 2 software, and that they CAN'T upgrade or downgrade it at well: is this possible? Incredible!
They "sincerely" said that changing ROM required a new motherboard, which cost the godness of 200+€... Exactly half the original S100 cost!
QTEK CUSTOMER SERVICE SUCKS! LONG TIME WAITING! NONE REGARDING OF THE CUSTOMER!
Now that my S100 is out from it's warranty, we'll return on how to resolve this TINY, LITTLE prob...
Do we have to cover our Magician with warm clothes? Just let me know your ideas...
Best Regards,
MocciJ

JasJar dead!!!HELP PLEASE

HI to everybody....my touchscreen..does not work anymore...I did nothing strange to kill it..i was not working on the JJ...I opened it and nothing happened when i touched the screen with the stylus...so I tried to soft reset it and nothing happened..I hard reset it and nothing...I flashed my rom and nothin'...my screen is not a touchscreen anymore...only keyboard worked and when it asked me to align the screen at the first window i can't do nothing...i'm really desperate I think is not a software trouble but a mechanical ****...and now??does anybody experienced something like that before???thanks for your kind help
mik
Yer dead up Jarjar, jaz jar or however its pronounced! >&
I'm an XDA2i person and am deliberating if I should go for a Universal or not right now....
in your case I'd say it was time to send it back via the place you bought it from ad get a warranty repair. If you have insurance you may want to give them a call and see what they say about replacing it.
Sounds like a hardware fault (theres nothing really 'mechanical' inside these machines) maybe a dodgy connection or dry solder joint etc. I say this because it 'worked' before and 'now isnt working' which means 'something' has changed.
Another alternative would be to find one of the service centre's for PDA's etc and get them to diagnose and fix the problem...
Hope you can get it sorted!
Dennis! West London UK!!
Thanks Dennis...I bought it at expansys..and i really don't know if they have services like that...i'll try to contact them...bah...!!thanks again

Pls help , JAS JAM

Dear XDA Forum members,
Need you help . I purchased a new Imate JASJAM after few days of using the PPC , i noticed a strange thing happening on my phone. All the application just closes automatically . when i open any apps it just closes within seconds , i am just able to receive calls and no other functions work . I took it to the imate service center couple of times now but after they handed over the phone to me , the problem persists after using the phone for 2 days . It seems very strange to me . Request your help/suggestion and solution to control this problem so that i can use the PPC again without any problems
What did the service center tell you was wrong with it?
And have you tried just doing a system restore?
Hi,
The service center restored my mobile device from WM6 to WM5 as it was not compatible, earlier they thought it was an software issue and then the hard ware was also checked but to no avail. after sometime of working on the ppc , the programs just closes immediately within seconds of opening.
It should run WM6 just fine, they also have a wm6 rom for your device so that should tell you somthing.
sounds like they didnt know what was wrong with it.
Tell them your unhappy with it and you want a replacment, thats if u havent unlocked it>
Or maybe someone else here willl reply with a better solution.
To me though it sounds faulty
Seems your not the only one with issues with this phone
did a quick google search
Well the phone is not under any warranty , checked lots of links in google but never helped . Just hopes somebody comes out with a solution . Already have paid enough for service of the phone at the service center .....pls help
girishkumar.kp said:
Well the phone is not under any warranty , checked lots of links in google but never helped . Just hopes somebody comes out with a solution . Already have paid enough for service of the phone at the service center .....pls help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you got the phone from a legit source it should have had some type of warrenty at one time. And if so was it in for repairs during that period. Just asking cuz thats your proof that the problem was never resolved and they should still provided you with a replacement.I could be wrong but Id look into it more.
anyways hope you get this resolved...Good luck
girishkumar.kp said:
Well the phone is not under any warranty , checked lots of links in google but never helped . Just hopes somebody comes out with a solution . Already have paid enough for service of the phone at the service center .....pls help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, real long shot. We have several Jasjams. One of our Jasjams had an issue with a broken OK button (near the scroller). The button just stopped working altogether. Is it possible that yours has lost it's click and it keeps pressing ok, shutting the programs? If that's the case, see if it's possible to reset the function for the broken button in the settings.
Hi there, what ver of WM6 you upgraded to? the ok button theory seems true, but just tell me what WM6 did u use? did u try 1 Version only or you tried many?
if you think this is a OS problem, try upgrading to Schap's 4.22 or TNT.SE, these are the best two versions ever, i am using Schap's on my JASJAM and its just perferct wihtout flaws, try installing it and see what happens with you.
jasjam warranty
if you bought it from a legit place and haven't put any cooked roms on you should be able to get it replaced if it goes bung in the first month. the store should replace with no questions asked if there is a problem that they cant resolve..... imate also has a years warranty on new phones so you should be able to send to them and be fixed AT NO COST TO YOU (excluding postage).
suggest taking back and if they say theres no problem test b4 taking out of the shop. all the help i can give, Cheers.

Touchscreen does not react

Today I used my HD like always. When I picked it up and tried to unlock it, the screen did not react. It does not react to any kind of push on the touchscreen or on the 4 touch buttons. The device starts as it has always, but I can't do anything with it. In the last couple of days I have not installed any additional software, so that can't be it either.
Soft resetting does not work either.
The device is fully loaded, has updated original rom.
Can anyone help me
Try HardReset (VolUp+VolDown then 1click PowerOn, follow display): if this isn't usefull -> Customer Service
D'rath
PS: HR erases all
After the hard reset the screen goes to a message saying: tap screen to set up your device.
I still can't tap the screen so the hard reset ends there...
Is there someone who knows a solution, if not I will have to send it back to the factory or something.
i had that bother with mine, it turned out that it was the orange rom that was causing all the problems. I put in dutty's 3.4 and that solved it
My provider is T-mobile. This means no special rom is on my hd. Is it wise to put Dutty's rom on my hd, with the thought that i might want to sent it back to HTC? Can I after putting Dutty's rom on it and finding out it still does not work put another rom on there leaving no trace of dutty's rom?
If you still have the original rom on it, seems to me that the best option is to send it off under warranty.
+1 Anfloyd say true ^^
Better solution if under warranty
D'rath
Most likely a fault with the digitizer. Happened to mine and quite a number of others. I had mine fail and had to get it repaired.
Than that is what I will do.
Thanks for the advice all!
Anks said:
Most likely a fault with the digitizer. Happened to mine and quite a number of others. I had mine fail and had to get it repaired.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have same problem with my HD!
So what was cousing problem - software(ROM) or hardware?
And did waranty cover it?
I have this with most of the newer ROMs and with all W6.5 roms.
Try to flash to a version from around april of this year.
I have this problem also - luckily for me I live in Milton Keynes and the HTC repair centre is just round the corner from me. I have taken it there for repair under warranty. Will let you know what they say when I get it back....which hopefully will be today.
Hi guys ,
i have the same problem .
Touchscreen stopped to work. It was up but not possible to tap anything.
I think to change digitizer and then all the lcdscreen.
Is possibile to change only the digitizer ?
thehawk7 said:
Is possibile to change only the digitizer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes it is possable to change the digitizer but it is easier to replace both digitizer+lcd

Best way to Brick/Break my HD2

Hi. I have a problem with my HD2 and I didn't find a solution how to fix it for over a month and I don't think I will find it. My problem explained (HERE) So now I want to Brick / Brake my phone so that I can send it to my insurance and they will not able to tell that I had Android on it, as now I can't install WM and I can't rid of MAGLDR. So what will be the best way to Brick / Break my phone so what whey will not be able to turn my phone on or fix it and find out that it’s been hacked as then I will not get a new one or they will not fix it. Waiting for advices
Sw1pe said:
Hi. I have a problem with my HD2 and I didn't find a solution how to fix it for over a month and I don't think I will find it. My problem explained (HERE) So now I want to Brick / Brake my phone so that I can send it to my insurance and they will not able to tell that I had Android on it, as now I can't install WM and I can't rid of MAGLDR. So what will be the best way to Brick / Break my phone so what whey will not be able to turn my phone on or fix it and find out that it’s been hacked as then I will not get a new one or they will not fix it. Waiting for advices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see a lot of solutions, but nobody seems to have told you to boot up your phone using volume down, which gets you directly into the bootloader, from where you can flash the Winmo 6.5 ROM.
Did you try that?
Otherwise there are numerous ways of trashing it i guess... mess around with electrical wiring and make sure the mainboard has a power spike or something... then you're sure nobody will be able to do something with it
Of course I tried it. The problem is that for some reason I can't get into bootloader, and I tried to do that 100 times with all different methods with no luck. I only can get into MAGLDR. I wrote all this in my first message in that threat
Well, from what i can understand after looking at your original post, you cannot enter the tri-color bootloader? Well, have you tried a hard reset? And, when you mentioned liquid entered your phone, you should also check the water indicator stickers on your phone and battery to see if they are pick or red. Else, they will not bother replacing or repairing it. Have you also tried resetting Android from MAGLDR? Back to your request, if you cannot enter the bootloader and unable to flash anything, the easiest ways to brick(any maybe recover) your phone are all void. The best way to physically damage your phone might be to short circuit it. Alternatively, if you just do not want them to know that you have flashed MAGLDR, you should damage the ribbon cable for the LCD. You have to unscrew the phone for this,but do gently remove the warranty and water indicator stickers before this. Please do explore all avenues like a hard reset and Android reset
i just got off the phone with htc and thay still fix the phone even if it has android on it thay will just replace the main bord because thay dont know how to fix it. but i have bricked my phone alredy and it wont turn on at all due to flashing a wrong rom on it that was ment for a diffrent country my phone is htc hd2 tmoble us. anyway you may just want to fix it your self and use the riff jtag box
watch this to see how to dissesible the device fix it and reasimble!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoiuM9epp2o
then watch how much easyer this guy repairs it using the non soldering method!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XroEPU4qyuM
first you need riff box and the other thag to or the non soldering method
i dont know the name for it im trying to find out!
hears teh link for riff box
http://www.jtagbox.com/tag/htc-unbrick/
hears the link for the other thang
http://www.multi-com.pl/index.php/en_US,details,id_pr,6503,menu_mode,categories.html
but not sure!!! im hopeing someone could conferm that or give us better links to this stuff!
maby from a diffrent sorce or cheper even!
so far i found the riff box for 150usd
but i dont know about the other thang! hopeing someone can help us with this stuff!
the advantages are if you brick it agin you can fix it agin and you can bebrave enuf to test new roms its expencive but its a very populer device and im shore more new roms will be relesed you may beable to help others who have bricked phones and make some cash back
i think this is the other thang he used but i need to find a site that has it in usd and in english im sort of in the same boat as you exept im not in warinty but warintys dont last forever so eventuly this thang is gona be peoples only hope!
htc charges
avrege repare 50$
lcd 120$
mainbord 170$
mainbord & lcd 285$
and thats only if you have
thay might extend your warinty if you have your resept
or
prufe of puchese
date
product id
im curently looking for someone to do a riff jtag on mine!
hope my info helps
i bricked my phone
i briked my htc hd2 phone . when i switch it on it gets stuck at the pink ribbon which does not roll at all. i tried installing a gingerbread on it and while usind the mgldr it downgraded and when i swithced it on again the loading got stuck at the pink ribbon.
baymol said:
i briked my htc hd2 phone . when i switch it on it gets stuck at the pink ribbon which does not roll at all. i tried installing a gingerbread on it and while usind the mgldr it downgraded and when i swithced it on again the loading got stuck at the pink ribbon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well atleast it boots i would start from scratch if i was you if its tmoble usa htc hd2 install RUU_Leo_1_5_TMOUS_2.10.531.0_Radio_Signed_15.34.50.07U_2.08.50.08_2_Ship.exe
Sorry for a late replay, I was very busy in the past days
kawshigan said:
Well, from what i can understand after looking at your original post, you cannot enter the tri-color bootloader? Well, have you tried a hard reset? And, when you mentioned liquid entered your phone, you should also check the water indicator stickers on your phone and battery to see if they are pick or red. Else, they will not bother replacing or repairing it. Have you also tried resetting Android from MAGLDR? Back to your request, if you cannot enter the bootloader and unable to flash anything, the easiest ways to brick(any maybe recover) your phone are all void. The best way to physically damage your phone might be to short circuit it. Alternatively, if you just do not want them to know that you have flashed MAGLDR, you should damage the ribbon cable for the LCD. You have to unscrew the phone for this,but do gently remove the warranty and water indicator stickers before this. Please do explore all avenues like a hard reset and Android reset
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I cannot enter bootloader and yes I tried hard reset (with volume up and down keys) with no luck. I checked my indicator stickers and they all look fine (white). The liquid damage was not a water damage I get a little bit of oily liquid on my phone but just a little, so very little of it could get inside my phone if any, but after that my phone just frozen on android screen and when I tried to reset it, it’s always freezes on android boot screen. And yes I tried resetting Android from MAGLDR, I even tried to install different android soft but after installation it still freezes on android boot screen.
Code:
the easiest ways to brick(any maybe recover) your phone are all void
Can you explain more about his one? And how I can do that?
I don't really want to unscrew anything because if I going to do something wrong I would void my insurance and they not going to change it at all. I was thinking maybe just drop it in a big cup of water and hold it for like 30sec - 1min. I think my insurance will cover water damage and I think whey not even going to bother to fix it. What do you think?
jackrabbit72380 said:
i just got off the phone with htc and thay still fix the phone even if it has android on it thay will just replace the main bord because thay dont know how to fix it. but i have bricked my phone alredy and it wont turn on at all due to flashing a wrong rom on it that was ment for a diffrent country my phone is htc hd2 tmoble us. anyway you may just want to fix it your self and use the riff jtag box
watch this to see how to dissesible the device fix it and reasimble!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoiuM9epp2o
then watch how much easyer this guy repairs it using the non soldering method!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XroEPU4qyuM
first you need riff box and the other thag to or the non soldering method
i dont know the name for it im trying to find out!
hears teh link for riff box
http://www.jtagbox.com/tag/htc-unbrick/
hears the link for the other thang
http://www.multi-com.pl/index.php/en_US,details,id_pr,6503,menu_mode,categories.html
but not sure!!! im hopeing someone could conferm that or give us better links to this stuff!
maby from a diffrent sorce or cheper even!
so far i found the riff box for 150usd
but i dont know about the other thang! hopeing someone can help us with this stuff!
the advantages are if you brick it agin you can fix it agin and you can bebrave enuf to test new roms its expencive but its a very populer device and im shore more new roms will be relesed you may beable to help others who have bricked phones and make some cash back
i think this is the other thang he used but i need to find a site that has it in usd and in english im sort of in the same boat as you exept im not in warinty but warintys dont last forever so eventuly this thang is gona be peoples only hope!
htc charges
avrege repare 50$
lcd 120$
mainbord 170$
mainbord & lcd 285$
and thats only if you have
thay might extend your warinty if you have your resept
or
prufe of puchese
date
product id
im curently looking for someone to do a riff jtag on mine!
hope my info helps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing is that I have insurance on it not a warranty. If I only had just a warranty I will think of fixing it by my self with jtag. But now I just need to think of how to break it so whey don't know it was hacked pay to my insurance £20 - £30 and I should get brand new HD2
bump !
High voltage electrical charge: via stun gun or similar high voltage output such as automobile ignition coil ect ... Have seen a stun gun used on a computer, killed it without any obvious signs of damage ...

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