Database Users

Activesync backwards steps

Apart from all the nightmares about making AS 4.2 work with the Wizard at all and then making it RLAD when it does work, there seem to several backwards steps.
Like, the fact that there's no backup facility.
Like the fact that conflicts between PC and PDA only have an option to overwrite one or the other as a default not highlight the issue like previous versions.
:roll:
Any others people can think of ?
DBo.

Yes - assuming you are comparing it to a 3.x version running with a wm2003 pocket pc:
- you can't sync over wifi (I find this REALLY annoying)
- it doesn't sync properly with avantgo (though you can use the avantgo program to sync when the device is cradled)
Chris

it's a complete back'o'****e as far as I'm concerned.
Please email Microsoft support and tell them what you think......Surely can't hurt.
I relented and purchased Sunnysoft's backup manager to replace that bit of the functionality, just something too importantant not to have. It's only $14.95, damn good little app.

Sunnysoft
Yes, much as it offends my cheapskate nature to pay for software. Since it does it's job (unlike most Microsnot sw) and it is cheap (unlike most Microsnot sw) I may actually have to pay for it now the trial has expired.
Ho hum
:wink:

I have never used the old 3.* activesync version since I started with a WM5 phone (HTC Wizard) but in my opinion the 4.* versions have hardly ANY use at all. I had a SonyEricsson P900 before this and the software for that had nearly everything one could need. The reason to disable all the features they had in the 3.* ActiveSync versions is one I will never understand. Does anyone have the Support-Email from Microsoft? We should start a petition and send them the link
1. Wifi + Bluetooth Sync
2. Backup possibility
3. Fix the problems with activesync disconnecting
4. Fix Avantgo and Worldmate sync issues
5. ...

5. Lack of support for .mdb - .cdb conversion
AS 4.1 is, as you say, a bag of ****e.
As for the "security issues" associated with sync over wi-fi - then write some code to allow admins to bloody well disable it not just remove the facility.
Another bag of ****e - the MS BT stack, why do we pay for this junk :x

There's really no excuse for a company as big as Micro$oft churning out software as flaky as this. It's not their first attempt at this, it's not even a beta. When you consider some of the great (and stable) bits of software out there for the pocket PC that have been written by enthusiastic amatuers in their bedrooms. I never had these sort of problems 15 years ago with my Psion Organiser. So much for progress :x

darrin2101 said:
I never had these sort of problems 15 years ago with my Psion Organiser. So much for progress :x
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen m8! AMEN!!

Let's not forget the broken uninstall feature...
I might be just just really unlucky, but I seem to loosing the uninstall lottery more time than I win it. As a matter of fact of the last 8 programs I have tried and decided to uninstall from my 8125, none have uninstalled properly - most not at all.
I'm sure this has been a boon for the 3rd party backup program vendors like spb (which is a great product actually) but it really limits ones ability to try before you buy on a production device. Almost makes it so you need a seperate test machine. Is this the method behind the madness?
AS 4.x is truely a step backwards. I'm AMAZED no one has come out with an alternative. But then again I'm not a programmer and so don't know the full extent of what that would involve. I put $50 down. Shall we create a kitty and see who takes the project on? Is it even possible?
Signed,
Unbelievably Frustrated with AS 4.x

Let's not forget the broken uninstall feature...
I might be just just really unlucky, but I seem to loosing the uninstall lottery more time than I win it. As a matter of fact of the last 8 programs I have tried and decided to uninstall from my 8125, none have uninstalled properly - most not at all.
I'm sure this has been a boon for the 3rd party backup program vendors like spb (which is a great product actually) but it really limits ones ability to try before you buy on a production device. Almost makes it so you need a seperate test machine. Is this the method behind the madness?
AS 4.x is truely a step backwards. I'm AMAZED no one has come out with an alternative. But then again I'm not a programmer and so don't know the full extent of what that would involve. I put $50 down. Shall we create a kitty and see who takes the project on? Is it even possible?
Signed,
Unbelievably Frustrated with AS 4.x

Thank you mods!

Awesome! A Shift section of its own. Now if we can just get our hands on some working models.
I'm hopeful someone can crack the stupid dumbed down version of WM that HTC is installing and figure out how to get WM6 on this beauty. The two dumbest things I've read so far are that a.) the PDA side can't access the SD card slot (that's even more idiotic than not being able to access the hard drive IMO), and the SnapVue program itself. I understand their desire to save licensing costs, but the whole decision to isolate the PDA side sounds like a deal they made with the telecoms - forcing the PDA side to only interact with the laptop side only through the telecom's system (where they can charge you with a data plan) is idiotic. Personally, I expect to use this device as a stand-alone laptop and not even use the 3G/HSPDA - I've already got that on my Trinity and paying for two full data plans makes zero sense. If anything, I'd like to do a BT modem lash-up through my phone.
If anyone's looking for some ideas to hack this thing, my personal wish list is:
1.) Get WM6 installed instead of SnapVue (may be a problem given the screen resolution tho)
2.) Unlock the SD card for the PDA side
3.) Unlock the hard drive for the PDA side (this would be HUGE)
Just imagine - you're on a flight, you watch a full movie on the PDA side off an SD card, using low battery consumption, then in the airport you tap into the WiFi and log into your work network to get work done, then later at the hotel you plug in and do some real work on the laptop side. Add in checking your push email on the cab ride to your hotel (PDA side, full keyboard) if you choose the HSPDA activation. That's my dream machine! now if I only knew enough code to make it happen! <grin>
Mike

Having been in the postion of carrying around (for several years)
a good data PDA (this means a Psion)
and a phone
and a Windows Mobile PDA (often an XDA so that makes for 2 devices total)
I have been waiting for Mr Shift to arrive since its first showing in early 2007.
In November the PDF manuals were available from FCC ... what a total disappointment. Did somebody from Apple join HTC? Did they close the architecure at every possible moment ... We need at least:
a) Ability to run full WM6
b) Ability to install any WM6 application
c) Ability to use it as a (very large) telephone
d) Ability to let the PDA part of the Shift be able to access the local Vista and a remote Windows machine
Many people (like me) use their Windows mobile PDA to act as a bridge from their work outlook (probably server) and their home Outlook standalone.
Currently my XDA's or equivalent forms that important link from my Work calendar, tasks and contacts, and my home calendar, tasks and contacts.
Any PDA replacement needs to be able to at least do that!
e) If using a 3G SIM and appropriate data plan then access via this to the Interweb from both PDA and PC sides.
The Shift would seem to make a pretty decent UMPC and it includes a keyboard, but as-is it seems the PDA function and the phone function are an insult to ones intelligence.
Sorry about the grumpy post!

we all
Hi,
No need to appologise.
I think we all feel the same about is.
The choises HTC made make no sence at all and make the PDA side of the shift nothing more than some kind of side-show.
Like everyone else I´d like a FULL pda side. With all normal apps (including office). Doing without phone capabilities might not keep me form buying the shift but if it has not got full pda functionality then it is totaly uninteresting. I would buy a small notebook with longer battery life. (and with XP for that matter).
So it´s time for the guys at HTC to wake up!
Maybe they could make different versions? I would be willing to pay a bit more for a version with full WM6...
Greetz,
Pfeffa-rah

Pfeffa-rah said:
Hi,
Maybe they could make different versions? I would be willing to pay a bit more for a version with full WM6...
Greetz,
Pfeffa-rah
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How I agree!
Huib

I agree with everyone that the droned down version of this device sucks, but don't blame HTC. Blame vaporware maker Dualcor for their once great idea and not can't be found Dualcor PPC. It was suppose to run windows, and windows mobile and be a phone. After some time, they realized they couldn't do the phone thing and eventually the product, to my knowledge, was never fully released. HTC can't put the full version of windows mobile to due copyright infringment. Dualcor even stated it.
http://www.dualcor.com/
The link will take you to their website and if you read through, it was innovative and great and never really came about.
Can you truly blame HTC for doing the right thing and infringing? I would love for HTC to take Dualcor to court.
In an old saying that applies to dualcor, "either sh*t or get off the pot!"
Just my two cents. Flame away!

dont worry
hey we have a forum here (the best darn forum in the world) n boy we will get this device to perform as we want to. it may take time and help from the gurus out there but it WILL be done so lets just get our wallets / purses at the ready and hope htc release the shift this decade??

landshark said:
1.) Get WM6 installed instead of SnapVue (may be a problem given the screen resolution tho)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhm... SnapVue is just a name HTC came up with... what it *actually* is, is just a little DLL they wrote that overlays the WM6 taskbars so that you can't tap on them... I know because I've already gotten my hands on the relevant material and ported SnapVue to the Athena... what's more, I've also patched the DLL so that it doesn't disable the taskbars any more... assuming we can use Activesync to do our dirty business for us in terms of getting new certificates on the damn thing (failing that it'll be SPL hacking time) then it won't be a problem.
the proper Vista OS is interesting too... it's actually deployed in a bastardised sort of Symantec Ghost image type thing, but it weighs in at 8GB so there's not a bloody chance in hell you'll be seeing updates to this in their entirety.

Hey guys I'm new to this forum and everything that you guys do here(so if you could use a little patients with me i would appreciate it), but this forum has helped me to do some cool things with my htc titan, and for that i thank you. Now i ask you what kind of mods do you think will come out for the shift? There are some great developers here that can do some cool things, and from reading this topic do i correctly gather that it is possible to put wm6 on the shift, and it is impossible to put xp on the shift? sorry for the long post, but one last thing. What service provider and plan would be offered for the shift or what would be best for the shift?

G1 Rant & Rave

hello all and congrats on the new forum
the android in its current state is quite a poor business phone compared to winmo6.1 for a few reasons. can you all chip in in identifying the areas of weakness just to help out developers who want to do something about it
ill start by mentioning the obvious things to me
1. no exchange mail support with search server and html mail(maybe a roadsync port is needed)
2. no mention of vpn support
3. the join domain feature of wm6.1 was kinda useful to some
4. the only platform that can access our eap-tls network in wm5/6.
5. not sure its a big thing, but maybe a basic firewall is needed.
6. an option less integration with gmail (not good for corporations who have security concerns)
7. reader/editor for office 2k7 documents
8. remote desktop (windows, osX, linux)
9. maybe bundling all the buisness features as a single software pack (that does not need to be included with all sold phones if not many people are intrested) this will simplify development and updates.
10. out of box wirless 3g/edge modem or something similar to WiFiRouter.
that's what i can think of for now. feel free to repost this in a more visible android forum

well then don't get it

whats with the hostility. I'm just trying to make android a more attractive platform by highlighting its business shortcomings.
if we can get developers interested in developing these kind of apps early in its life to make it more corporate friendly it would be great.
taking care of business and core features are far more important than cool 'n' pointless apps that the iphone seems to be handling pretty well.
more stuff:
8. remote desktop (windows, osX, linux)
9. maybe bundling all the business features as a single software pack (that does not need to be included with all sold phones if not many people are interested) this will simplify development and updates.
10. out of box wireless 3g/edge modem or something similar to WiFiRouter.

since it's linux I have no doubt that most of your worries will be addressed. I know Linux has a remote desktop app but the question is will the android run non-java apps? Will it have GCC and some libs? Can we download GCC and some libs to our microSDHC cards? Will SSH work? Will the android GUI have X11-like network support? I am not much of a programmer but if the android has gcc and libs I will be doing some compiling of linux apps.

dagentooboy said:
since it's linux I have no doubt that most of your worries will be addressed. I know Linux has a remote desktop app but the question is will the android run non-java apps? Will it have GCC and some libs? Can we download GCC and some libs to our microSDHC cards? Will SSH work? Will the android GUI have X11-like network support? I am not much of a programmer but if the android has gcc and libs I will be doing some compiling of linux apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im about 95% certain that all apps run inside android's java environment. Therefore any existing opensource application would have to be ported over to the specifications of android's java language.
Android as an operating system is just a linux executable binary. Think of it like X server. Android is just a GUI, but as of now everything that runs in that GUI has to be specifically written for android.
It may be possible to run seperate tty sessions... and that could allow you to run some sort of server in the background behind android that you could access from inside of android via a web browser (http://127.0.0.1 aka localhost style)

mburris said:
Im about 95% certain that all apps run inside android's java environment. Therefore any existing opensource application would have to be ported over to the specifications of android's java language.
Android as an operating system is just a linux executable binary. Think of it like X server. Android is just a GUI, but as of now everything that runs in that GUI has to be specifically written for android.
It may be possible to run seperate tty sessions... and that could allow you to run some sort of server in the background behind android that you could access from inside of android via a web browser (http://127.0.0.1 aka localhost style)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah... that's what I thought. I was hoping that wasn't the case.... I can dream right? Maybe it will be like the Zaurus all over again and we can write an X11 environment for it.

Nr. 1, the Exchange feature was mentioned at the launch, and the official answer was "we expect developers to provide applications for that". I think that also applies to the VPN part; since it's that open and that linux-ish, there will probably be lots of VPN/VNC/RDP/SSH clients available.
3 and 4, I don't even know what they are. Stuck in a Windows-based environment, with closed specs ? tough luck. That's vendor lock-in, you know.
5 - a firewall ? what for ? Your device won't be permanently connected, and you probably won't have lots of apps listening on your phone. Anyway, a filtering module will probably appear pretty soon. I'd be more worried about installed apps making hidden outgoing connections (apps calling home, or malicious apps), therefore a good app to have would be something similar to LittleSnitch.
6 - Google has service offerings for businesses, so you either choose to use their services, or you don't. If you don't like it, you shouldn't use this phone I guess
7 - the feature will appear for sure, at least the viewer part. Not hoping of a OpenOffice port for Android, though.
This phone actually doesn't look like it was built for business use, though; just take a look at the apps who won the contest, all of them are focused on fun, socializing, location-awareness and stuff that's useful to people, not business users.

Hmm, to follow up on the Office part:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/personal_tech/smartphones/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=210604042
"We expect it to be more for the consumer, not necessarily for enterprises," says Cole Brodman, chief technology and innovation officer at T-Mobile USA.
The 4.6-by-2.1-by-0.6-inch handset, which will go on sale in the United States on Oct. 22, will let users view Word and Excel documents as well as PDFs.

a few points:
a*you didnt coment on 8-10
b*the exchange feature needs licencing from mirosoft. i doubt the development comunity can do that. unless some genius cracks the airsync protocol
c*if you are on gprs/edge/3g then the phone is Always connected to the network. that why we have things like pushmail.
d*eap-tls is the most secure type of wirless access. and it uses certificates on both the server and client. the client normally needs to be part of the domain to be able to accept the certificate
e*almost all corporations are locked down to windows. its very imortant that buisness phones integrates very well with them if it were to be considered a buisness phones
f*dont you agree that having a buisness friendly is important for the sucess of any phone platform?
g* do you think that the lack of stylus or (resistive lcd) will hinder its ability to do remote desktop? the track ball thingy enough?

Most of the above points (1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 9) will most likely be addressed by developers and sysadmins in good time. In the case of Exchange, even if the platform is opensource, it doesn't mean that a 3rd party company can't license the technology to provide a solution. It might not be pretty (at first), but I wouldn't say it's impossible.
5. It depends on what specific vulnerabilities you're concerned about, whether on the app/run level or somewhere in the core Android stack. In general I doubt there's any issue that doesn't already exist on other mobile OSes, and given their respective solutions, the same is possible here. But if you have a specific concern in mind it would help to point it out.
6, 9. Google is certainly pushing its suite of apps and for good reason (because a lot of consumers use them), but given the open nature of the platform nothing is cemented in place. So while the G1 comes setup for use with gmail/gcal/maps/etc, there's nothing that says a sysadmin can't strip and replace. Moreover, the G1 isn't being pushed as an enterprise device in the first place; there's every possibility that carriers could release other handset models later, preloaded with more business-centric software packages (and less Google apps), and are simply holding off during Android's initial launch. If you think about it, Android has a much better chance of having a strong launch on the consumer front than on the enterprise front. Take care of the former first, then the latter has a better chance of long-term success.
8, g. Same as above, but Google is also pushing the cloud which could lessen the need for VNC/RDP/etc. Sysadmins will have their doubts about security in Google's cloud, but there's nothing that says they can't first observe the model and then later implement their own solution.
10. Not as much of an issue with the software as it is with the carrier. T-mobile isn't just launching Android, it's also launching its 3G network. Providing tethering out-of-the-box could seriously cripple the network in its infancy, and that's the last thing the US 3G market needs. Face it, we need good competition to force carriers to pick up the pace, and in time we could see some competing tethering plans between AT&T, T-mobile, et al.
Some thoughts in general:
Businesses may currently be invested in Windows Mobile for their mobile solutions, but the point isn't to take Android and simply turn it into WinMo -- that would be a wasted opportunity. WinMo users are effectively tied to their PC in one way or another (sync, RDP, svn, tether, etc). Android has the chance to push the cloud (among other innovative models), so that users are no longer dependent on existing workflows. The handset would become just a terminal for accessing the cloud, and transition between terminals would be completely transparent (Android on a phone? How about a netbook?). Not that I expect Android to overtake WinMo (or BES et al), but it gives companies more solutions that better fit their individual needs, and helps MS, RIM, etc start evolving the existing systems that are frankly getting dated.

thanks that was quite insightful
i would like to point out that a big portion (probably the biggest) of the android users only bought the G1 phone because of its great value. think about it the unlocked $399 G1 has more features than the $700 touch diamond. most of these people couldn't care less about what google have in mind for the platform. all they want is for their phone to do certain tasks (like exchange email) a lot of the other google-pushed tasks will probably be unused

I think for you personally, the #1 most important feature the G1 >>needs<< to have is spellcheck
fatso485 said:
...hostiliy...hilighting...buisness...intrested..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

t mobile is a poor businesses Carrier
most of the big business i have seen use at&t
once tmobile 3g network become more mature they might get some more of the business market. but until they iron out the wrinkles in there new 3g network don't expect anything from tmobile. i don't think you want something like the iphone bill happening to all you business customers.
this is the first step tmobile has taken towards 3g in the US
i am sure there will be some stumbles.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the Active Sync protocol needed for Exchange support is free to use from Microsoft. I see a LOT of it in many 3rd party email servers and applications. Many of which are in direct competition with Microsoft. So I think we can assume that Active Sync is very doable on the Android platform. Only needs a developer to do something about it.
Active Sync is my main concern too. Once that's in place, then some way to tether I'm getting me an Android phone quickly.
All the other concerns are too easy to fix either already or very soon, so the 2 problems I mentioned are the only show stoppers for me.

There currently isn't even a foolproof activesync drop-in replacement for Linux desktop distros. There's multisync and synCE, but they're both hard to install, hard to configure, and far from perfect in their implementation. As for getting it working under Android, like everything else, it's probably a wait-and-see situation. Most software for Linux isn't written in Java (which Android prefers/requires?) It'll be interesting to see if a java implementation of activesync software could happen.

does any1 know if the g1 has an on screen keyboard

haitiankid4lyf said:
does any1 know if the g1 has an on screen keyboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Currenly, no. The demo and preview vids show that you need to open the hardware keyboard in order to type (except for the phone dialer). But I'm sure SIPs will show up pretty quickly.

fhsieh said:
Currenly, no. The demo and preview vids show that you need to open the hardware keyboard in order to type (except for the phone dialer). But I'm sure SIPs will show up pretty quickly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I hope they change that. When I had the Fuze I never liked pulling out the keyboard unless I have to type something long, an email or a long text or whatever. For normal web browsing, entering 1 URL, it's not worth it to slide it open, type and close it again.

my biggest concern is an appointment calender. im so reliant on my appointment calander ion my Kaiser... i wouldnt know what to do without it. Also, a way to sync files would be great. maybe the phone will be integrated with Google Docs? That would be SUPERB! I take notes in my college classes using Office Mobile, but if Android syncs with Google Docs... good lawd.. goodbye to WinMo!

bigdookie said:
my biggest concern is an appointment calender. im so reliant on my appointment calander ion my Kaiser... i wouldnt know what to do without it. Also, a way to sync files would be great. maybe the phone will be integrated with Google Docs? That would be SUPERB! I take notes in my college classes using Office Mobile, but if Android syncs with Google Docs... good lawd.. goodbye to WinMo!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's a video showing how well it syncs everything.
Say goodbye, WinMo

How do you rate for G1 device?....Reviews Etc.

We're wonder what is people thinking about their G1 device... Please vote and write down your feeling on this new phone.

G1
What does work on this phone works very well. I feel though that this phone is more for developers and hobbyist. It's not quiet ready for guys like me that have very few skills. I hope the software situation gets worked out soon or this phone will end up with no real support just like the Iphone.

i agree, some great potential with this phone, enough to make it a class leader. we just need to see some of the most reported problems ironed out first. great os and hardware on the whole.

what are "mosy reported floors"

I LOVE this phone. Of course it has its problems(lack of camera options, lack of really interesting apps(though there were a hell of a lot of interesting ones added today...), cut and paste is a bit of a pain sometimes but they are all in the software and definitely will be fixed once the device is a little more mature. Considering this is a version 1.0 device and just came out a little over a month ago it's freaking amazing. Heck I've even had iphone users gawk at some of the things it can do like street view compass mode.

Love it!!
I've had (over the past 2 years) the mda, moto q, mogul, instinct, diamond and now the G1.
Windows mobile (mda/q/mogul/diamond), although very convenient, can and will give you a headache and a large pain in the @$$. Screens are usually too cluttered. Such a small screen size with so much stuff. Lag lag lagggggggg. Pocket Internet Explorer is only there for show and orb. Other than that I would recommend opera, netbrowser or skyfire. Functionality is the best feature winmo has. I had full access to my home computer (as long as it was connected to the internet). They are essentially what they are called, PPC's (Pocket PC's).
Instinct... should be set on fire along with all the people who created that POS. Make sure it is a slow roasting fire too. Very very poor smartphone. Good at making/receiving calls though.
The G1 can and will do everying the winmo phones do (minus the head ache... hopefully). All we need to be is patient or pitch in by learning programming.

i rated it very poor, i am very disappointed with the phone and google should be ashamed of themselves. the g1 can't do 1/10th of the things my wing did and my wing was a dog. android is worse than win ce when i first tried it on '03. thanks g1 for ruining my year. xda-devs, please get winmo on this asap.

Till now only 47 peoples vote... gogogo!
Till now only 47 peoples... gogogo! Tell people how do you think on G1~
We hope TMO can see this thread and improve it on next model if possible.

Good and Bad
I rated the phone as Neutral:
Things I like:
- GPS, Wireless are great
- Some cool apps
- Smooth Feel to the screen and it isn't jerky
- Contact List (very flexible for my needs)
- real tactile keyboard
- Maps
- ShopSavvy
Things I don't like:
- Small screen
- No auto-rotate (I know it works with chrooted systems)
- keyboard missing CTRL, PgUp/Down, Arrows (for shell commands)
- Internal Storage space is limited
- Lack of ability to store to SD Card
- The cumbersome headset included (why on earth keep the mic
- Not a true Open Source (I want root access)
Things that would make this phone rock:
- optional on-screen keyboard for simple input (ease up on the wear and tear of constantly having to flip to keyboard)
- piston operated hinges (i.e. slow the shock of closing/opening the keyboard)..opens fast but slows down right before it slams open/shut
- option for normal earpiece input (vice USB headset)
So I'm really mixed. I think a huge win (for me) is the ability to store on SD card (I run out of space all the time now) and having root access. That would put my satisfaction in the upper 90's. I'm sure I'm missing other pros/cons but that's a start for me.

I bought it recently, and am satisfied with it. The screen is very bright and responsive, the browser is very good and I can install my own apps on it without hassle <3
My first one had a squeaky sound to it so I got it exchanged. I have the white one, so it can be hard to see the buttons and some of the apps feel incomplete. Thankfully, I can download the source and mod them to my liking
RouterGuru said:
I rated the phone as Neutral:
Things that would make this phone rock:
- optional on-screen keyboard for simple input (ease up on the wear and tear of constantly having to flip to keyboard)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aye, that annoys me as well, but the input API is is listed on the roadmap for Q1 09, so not too long now (hopefully).

Auto Rotate...?
Just curious if anyone concern about to disable " Auto Rotate " function once keyboard slide out.
Personally, I don't like it at all since sometime, I wish to browse the webpage on horziontal mode but only way is slide out the keyboard!
It is a $%^&*, why they just don't leave a function for user ON/OFF auto rotate ???

I give the phone itself a "very disappointed", the software "very good".
While much if the phone's problems are likely software, the squeaking and overall build quality are sub-par IMO. The battery life is horrid and, while software can fix some of it, the battery is rated very low, which begs me to ask why they spec'd such a tiny battery for a phone with these features.
The point is, I guess, that the phone itself has problems that cant be fixed with a update. The software, while lacking many simple things, at least can and will be eventually fixed.

For me the G1 is a very good start. The default packages and layouts need to be redone. For example. The contacts options don't offer enough input. Like... Birthdays, Anniversaries As well as maybe having IM support for the various default messengers on the g1 ie gtalk, aim etc.
Another Huge let down is the default SMS/MMS package where it does not allow you to forward and the standard options we have become accustomed to using devices such as WM6....
The picture viewer is the worst i have ever seen in my life. Currently I have over 5500 pictures on my SD card and the default viewer does not allow me to view by Directory or simply go into the folder and view that folder, instead it tries to Cache all 5500 pictures and well 35 mins + trying to cache all of them i close it. Also with so many pictures and thousands of names of files there is no option to View a picture and MMS it directly to a contact.
Syncing the phone. There is currently no support for outlook and well even when you export from outlook in CSV format and import into Google it always comes up half garbled with no pictures already saved for contacts. Also not correctly saving number types. IE from outlook if u save it as a mobile number so u can sms on a WM6 device once imported into google it lists it as a regular phone# and cant quickly create a sms to that user by (auto completing the name as you type.)
The only 2 things i have notice that Remember last view is the homescreen and the Applications menu. For instance if you go into your Apps management and uninstall an app. it sends you to the top of the list. The same goes with your Contacts, Directory views, Music library, Etc.
The default options for all applications are normally the same as in notification options. So if i am getting a Text, MMS, Email or what have you it is the same notification for every notification event.
There is no "task manager" to kill processes. IE an X button to close programs or access to kill process' and while Android is supposed to close programs on its own tell that to mine when i run the Browser or Myspace, Facebook, PacMac and close out of the screens and as time passes i wonder why my phone is running slow and open up the Task Switcher and see all of these running still.
There has been no porting of Office XXXX or Open Office to support excel, docx, and the like formats to android at this time yet.
While many people think that the G1 is a big let down and got it and got rid of it. Many of us see the potentional of its power and customization. So if enough of the users voice there dislikes about standard features you EXPECT and want on your device the better the chances that they will take notice.

ultraman69 said:
i rated it very poor, i am very disappointed with the phone and google should be ashamed of themselves. the g1 can't do 1/10th of the things my wing did and my wing was a dog. android is worse than win ce when i first tried it on '03. thanks g1 for ruining my year. xda-devs, please get winmo on this asap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.

G1 for 2 weeks ... returned ;?
This is not a thread to bash the G1 in anyway, this is not to compare it to other touchscreen phones. This is merely a usability distinction where i couldn't justify $400 for the device which was more or less to play with android.
the G1 is a good phone, speakers (earpiece/speaker on back) have some amplification issues when the volume is too high, coming from and SE phone however they were more than acceptable in rage and clarity if the volume was controlled.
the internet was outstanding, what i would have liked to have seen was copy and paste in browser, which may have held me to the phone a bit longer than the return period. not being able to at the very least edit docs.google.com documents was irritating at best, especially with no proper document viewer on the phone, severely constricting the email that could be sent from the phone. i am by no means a business user ... but wow, i cant even edit a *.doc thats not already on my phone to another person with some changes.
this has rambled on long enough, i just wanted to share a few thoughts that i had of the device.

diabolical28 said:
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While correct that the Wing has the upper hand in generations of O/S, I am reminded of a great quote:
"A wise man learns from his mistakes, a wiser man learn's from the mistakes of the one around him"
sure, you need to change the words around a bit, but the lesson is to learn from others. They didnt. Android has a lot of possibilities. Unfortunately they did not "learn" from WM6, they left a lot out. They left it in the hands of developers, who seem to be too busy writing "flashlight" and "punch meter" to write useful everyday apps that we are lacking. So far the only app that I have seen that addresses a missing feature is the missed call app 9which is AWESOME as I miss a lot of calls because they dont ring though ).

I am still keeping the phone simply because of the browsing feature, I love sitting on the couch and browsing websites smoothly. Unbelievably the browser also lacks simple features like a simple ADDRESS bar (well, its hidden in the menus so you would SEARCH and add to Google's search results instead of direct typing a URL) and switching between tabs (now called Windows) is too many unnecessary "touches" in my opinion.
I dont mean to bash the phone (and dont even think about replying with "get another phone if you dont like it") but I like to bring these frustrations up so that Google programmers know one more time why this phone is going to lose its shine if they are too late bringing themselves up to date. (PS3 Sales anyone?, Late on price cuts?). See if you are too late these days, it doesn't matter if you are better, look at MSN's Video website, its awesome and MUCH better than Youtube but no one knows about it because they were late (and they don't have their own "brand name" and its simply MSN Video)
Not being able to edit *.doc files from inside the phone's memory or google docs is one thing, and I think is acceptable on a not-so-fresh-release-anymore phone.
What is NOT acceptable whatsoever on this phone is:
Not being able to see IMAGES in Gmail??! For goodness sake Google and T-Mobile claim everything you love about google in your hand, BS. Windows Mobile did this back in 1999 (used to be called Windows CE and had its own outlook) Yes that was 1999 TEN YEARS AGO on my Cassiopea
Other items worth mentioning to those who don't have the phone:
No proper support of Google's own search on its own website! (constantly getting the blank search result page)
No Copy/Paste
No Contact Sync with Outlook (what the hell? is this Nokia 1997 all over again?)
No spreadsheet/word doc editor/viewer (ok, ok, we are waiting for all kind of programmers making incompatible with each other software
No PDF viewer (Correction, there is a great PDF viewer in the market for purchase, I meant part of the browser, I think google probably wants to come up with its own version for its Google Book website and doesnt want to use Adobe PDF)
No Flash (there goes 50% of the websites I browse)
Severly closed source and limited programming that has caused simple BS "apps" with a few exceptions. Developers are crying about how limited they are in writing programs as this phone is sooo CLOSED in all ways, there is no way to even write a Gadget for it like the clock that comes on the screen. No root access either.
Unscrollable, limited desktop space
No windows for categorizing icons. Well, Google does not believe in categorizing and file systems. I am sure all their own servers are full of FOLDERs just like Microsoft servers but they claim everything should be "LABELED" not "folder"'d.
No app installation on the SD card?? Whats this one?? I dropped my WING because it was still using the ten year old Windows CE memory system (almost) and had very limited space and was always running out.
This phone made me appreciate all the little details that engineers at Microsoft have thought of in the past 20 years and included in Windows. I think of how our life would've beeen different and productivity in the world would've been so behind if Linux, IBMOS/2 and other crap had taken over the computer world. Thanks again Microsoft for all the thousands and thousands of free "apps" you included in Windows. Stuff as simple as RIGHT clicking on the screen or COPY/Paste or just a window to categorize icons, simple stupid things I have been taking for granted for years. I am sure Google programmers would love to use Windows in all their own computers while at work. Now I know why Windows dominates the software industry even though they have failed in cluttered annoying text advertising, search, maps and a few other areas.

brooklynite said:
I am still keeping the phone simply because of the browsing feature, I love sitting on the couch and browsing websites smoothly. Unbelievably the browser also lacks simple features like a simple ADDRESS bar (well, its hidden in the menus so you would SEARCH and add to Google's search results instead of direct typing a URL) and switching between tabs (now called Windows) is too many unnecessary "touches" in my opinion.
I dont mean to bash the phone (and dont even think about replying with "get another phone if you dont like it") but I like to bring these frustrations up so that Google programmers know one more time why this phone is going to lose its shine if they are too late bringing themselves up to date. (PS3 Sales anyone?, Late on price cuts?). See if you are too late these days, it doesn't matter if you are better, look at MSN's Video website, its awesome and MUCH better than Youtube but no one knows about it because they were late (and they don't have their own "brand name" and its simply MSN Video)
Not being able to edit *.doc files from inside the phone's memory or google docs is one thing, and I think is acceptable on a not-so-fresh-release-anymore phone.
What is NOT acceptable whatsoever on this phone is:
Not being able to see IMAGES in Gmail??! For goodness sake Google and T-Mobile claim everything you love about google in your hand, BS. Windows Mobile did this back in 1999 (used to be called Windows CE and had its own outlook) Yes that was 1999 TEN YEARS AGO on my Cassiopea
Other items worth mentioning to those who don't have the phone:
No proper support of Google's own search on its own website! (constantly getting the blank search result page)
No Copy/Paste
No Contact Sync with Outlook (what the hell? is this Nokia 1997 all over again?)
No spreadsheet/word doc editor/viewer (ok, ok, we are waiting for all kind of programmers making incompatible with each other software
No PDF viewer
No Flash (there goes 50% of the websites I browse)
Severly closed source and limited programming that has caused simple BS "apps" with a few exceptions. Developers are crying about how limited they are in writing programs as this phone is sooo CLOSED in all ways, there is no way to even write a Gadget for it like the clock that comes on the screen. No root access either.
Unscrollable, limited desktop space
No windows for categorizing icons. Well, Google does not believe in categorizing and file systems. I am sure all their own servers are full of FOLDERs just like Microsoft servers but they claim everything should be "LABELED" not "folder"'d.
No app installation on the SD card?? Whats this one?? I dropped my WING because it was still using the ten year old Windows CE memory system (almost) and had very limited space and was always running out.
This phone made me appreciate all the little details that engineers at Microsoft have thought of in the past 20 years and included in Windows. I think of how our life would've beeen different and productivity in the world would've been so behind if Linux, IBMOS/2 and other crap had taken over the computer world. Thanks again Microsoft for all the thousands and thousands of free "apps" you included in Windows. Stuff as simple as RIGHT clicking on the screen or COPY/Paste or just a window to categorize icons, simple stupid things I have been taking for granted for years. I am sure Google programmers would love to use Windows in all their own computers while at work. Now I know why Windows dominates the software industry even though they have failed in cluttered annoying text advertising, search, maps and a few other areas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flash was announced to be coming sometime in the near future by adobe, when is the question. There is a pdf viewer on handango however i purchased it and tried to open g1's full manual and it wont open it. GO FIGURE lol.

And contacts sync with Outlook is already out - see MailShadowG at www.cemaphore.com
- in fact, it's an entire push Exchange mail/contacts/calendar sync.

diabolical28 said:
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry, i didn't know that this poll was to rate the potential of the g1. potentially, any phone can be great, 5 stars...
i think by now, 2008, the requirements for a pda phone are pretty much well defined. ms may have taken 3 to 4 gens to get it right, it doesn't mean that google needs 4 gens. they don't have to invent or reinvent anything, it all already there.
unfortunately, google seems too wrapped up in UI than functionality. actually, i don't know where their focus is.

Windows Update function?

Hello,
i have just one simple question:is the Windows Update function integrated into the HTC HD2, too? I didn't find it yet. Maybe someone else knows more about it?
Thanks in advance.
Sincerely, nitrate

windows update
i found that auto update icon in windows folder in htc hd2.but it doesnt really update anything.

It's not likely there will ever be something similar to Windows Update for Windows Mobile.
It's largely due to the specificities of the OS and of the devices that host it. Sure, Windows Mobile is produced by MS, but you won't be able to buy it on the shelves, as you can do with XP, Vista or Seven and install it on your home made computer. Every phone maker adapts it fot its own devices, a bit like the drivers you need on top of windows for specific hardware. And don't forget that all the files that make the OS are bundled together in ROM and not just copied on a hard disk. The rom of a HD2 is not the same as that of a HD (not even talking about those of phones from other companies). And you have operators like Orange that custom make their own ROMs, so it's close to impossible for MS to provide the kind of support they do for their other OS. The closest we could have would be a HD2 Update, but run by HTC and not by MS. In a way, that's what they do when they provide a new ROM!
Another thought, you will notice that when we complain about bugs we usually blame (and very often rightly so!) HTC for the problem and not MS.
I spend a lot of times on other forums (job related !) for problems/bugs affecting worksations and servers, almost nobody says "I have so many problems with my Dell, next time I will get a HP!" , they complain (and once again, very often rightly so!) about MS!

Windows Update was included in all ROMs from WM5, but was always an optional extra offered to the operators and phone suppliers by MS. As far as I know, none ever actually purchased the option, though the shortcut remained in the start menu. This is why clicking it always returned the 'No Updates' message.
The HD2 does have the capability for hotfixes to be applied, and some have already been released by HTC. Whether they ever integrate this with the Update utility remains to be seen!

NeilM said:
This is why clicking it always returned the 'No Updates' message.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my 4th WM device, and I've never found an update using this utility. Updates seem to come only from carriers, manufacturers, and cookers...
Has anyone here ever - on any device - received an update using Microsoft's utility?

As I said above, Update was an optional extra that needed to be purchased by the operator/supplier. None ever exercised that option, presumably as they'd rather encourage the user to buy a new model than update the old one