Yes how strange. If someone calls me the phone rings, but if pick up the call or i move the volume control up and down i hear nothing. No sound enabled applications make any sound. If i put the wired hands free kit in it still works fine (phone calls and applications). At a gues i'd say the chip powering the internal speaker has died, but then how does the ring get played? Orange said it may be a software problem.
About to clear the memory fully buy taking out the battery for over 10 minutes. Fingers crossed it'll fix it.
Any other ideas, or has anyone else had this problem?
Futurity
I used to have a simlar problem with my Himalaya in that after using the wired hands free there was no sound. This turned out to be the switch in the jack socket not working properly. Plugging and unplugging it a few times it would free it up. But this wouldn't really explain why yours is still ringing.
Hi, That would explain it you know. When the hands free kit is plugged in and the phone rings, the main phone still plays the ring tone, but all other audio goes via the wired hands free kit.
Fantastic, problem solved. Orange are sending me a new one this afternoon anyway, but its good to know its not me going mad.
I do use the wired hands free kit every day though, so something to be careful off!
no sound output from my O2 Xda II mini!
To: futurity and jwhitham
I have had the same problem for a week now and it's driving me up the wall. I have been plugging and unplugging the head phones to no avail. I have been in contact with O2 Technical Support, Asia Pacific Region (where the device was purchased) but all their reset-suggestions have failed thus far. (There is something about a Cab File that I haven't tried yet.) What surprises me is the fact that I have only used this device for 6 months ...I don't want to go back to my old mobile but I love my O2!! and this incident makes me want to cry as there is no O2 support in North America (where I reside)! I feel so alone and lost with my device!!
Any help would be appreciated!
No sound output
Hi Upcityhighroller,
Its a hardware fault so no amount of resetting is evey going to fix it sorry. The socket where the headphones plug is has broken, telling the phone that the headphones are constantly plugged in, even when they are not. the only solution is to fix the headphone socket, or just live with a phone where you will always have to use a headset.
My headphone socket broken within a month of getting the phone, but i think i may have dropped the phone and the headphones lead caught it (i think this may have broken it).
My solution was to exchange the unit with a new one.
I hope this helps?
Neil
sound/speaker issue with O2 Xda II mini
Hey Futurity - thanks for the reply.
Another contributor on this forum had the same problem and suggested tapping the device against my palm. I gave it a try and it worked!! HOWEVER, now my power button isn't working. ARGH!! At the moment, I have the buttons UNLOCKED so it can be turned on by any of the buttons and have it set so it turns itself off after 2 mins of inactivity - but that doesn't solve the problem. I have contacted O2 about this again and although I hope that they would be willing to replace the device for me, I am afraid that it will take an extraordinarily inconvienient amount of time, make me pay the courier fee, and I will be left with no phone to use! I wouldn't be as worry if there was an O2 office here in my city. No matter how I LOVE learning about new gadget/tech toys, It is times like these when I miss my past simple existence with my Nokia 6100 and Moleskin notebook.
From scrolling through this forum, it seems as though many have experienced the sound output problem with the headphone socket. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the makers of the Magician suppose to test these things out vigoursly??
Many thanks!
To be honest a lot of these types of problems are only reported after the device has been released due to everyday use. I mean its hard to test all the possible strains that a headset socket would go under. Saying this, a Sony Erricson head set plug would just pop off and would not damage the socket as there are just contacts and no socket.
For me, dropping the phone and the head phone lead being the only thing that stopped it from smashing on the floor put a lot of strain on the socket. I preferred this to the phone being totally broken. Thanksfully my Orange insurance means that i had next day replacement. I phoned before 5pm and got it in the morning the following day.
I think the makes expect everyone to use bluetooth instead of the wired headset, so the socket doesn't need to be so robust. I only use the wired headset because because the voice dial doesn't work through the bluetooth headset and i can't listen to MP3s through it. I still think its a great device and seems to be the must have PDA this Xmas.
Related
I've been using Dopod 818 pro since the end of December 2005. A week ago, a problem suddenly came up. The speaker of this PPC does not work anymore.
I tried to play music using windows media player, or real player -> Does not work
I tried to use the speaker phone -> Does not work
I can't even hear anything when I make a call or receiving a call
It works when I plug in the headset. everything works perfectly.
It plays the ringtone when someone call me. (Very soft sound)
Is this a hardware problem? or is there anyway that I can do to fix it.
I bought the phone overseas (I'm located in Australia now). It takes a lot of effort to send it overseas for warranty.
Thank you
Do a soft-reset. If that doesn't help, do a hard-reset. If that doesn't work , do a ROM re-install. If it still doesn't help, then you have a faulty unit.
I've done soft reset
I haven't done hard reset
->haven't had any backup program.
Is there any free solution for backup software?
Thanks
i ve solution
well for this solution u must disassemble the phone. look at the handsfree jack and apply a jumper to the two front points of the connector. it will solve ur problem
aj0s said:
I've been using Dopod 818 pro since the end of December 2005. A week ago, a problem suddenly came up. The speaker of this PPC does not work anymore.
I tried to play music using windows media player, or real player -> Does not work
I tried to use the speaker phone -> Does not work
I can't even hear anything when I make a call or receiving a call
It works when I plug in the headset. everything works perfectly.
It plays the ringtone when someone call me. (Very soft sound)
Is this a hardware problem? or is there anyway that I can do to fix it.
I bought the phone overseas (I'm located in Australia now). It takes a lot of effort to send it overseas for warranty.
Thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had this problem, what I did was play music using headphone and suddenly unplug the jack. The Speaker works again like charm.
Cheers!
dopod 818 pro speaker issues
I have run into the same issue with my 818 pro and my Himalaya...The fix is always uninstalling one or more applications that may be causing the problem. I assure you it's very unlikely that it is a hardware issue...Uninstall all applications and you should get the sound back..
I have the same problem with my 818 pro. I have already done the hard reset-no change, tried blowing air in and out through the headphone jack, silicone spray and playing with the plug. It appears to be a hardware issue with the sensor mechanism inside so it always thinks it has a headset connected--poor design.
Did anyone else figure out a solution for this (other than returning for repair?) This happened to me this weekend. Suddenly happened after I was using the headphone for an hour while I was rollerblading. Now I can't answer any calls without either the bluetooth or standard headphone. I can hear the ring go off, but just can't use it as a regular handset. I'm sure everyone agrees that this is a hardware issue with a poorly built headphone jack. But while I'm waiting for the retailer to restock the dopod 818 and send me a replacement, does anyone know of a hack that would allow the phone to activate the headphone AND the phone speaker simutaneously? The reasoning is I think the phone currently thinks there is a headset constantly being plugged in, so it deactivates the loud speaker as well as the phone speaker. But if there is a hack that lets WM5 to use the handset speaker and the headphone jack simutaneously, then at least I can answer phone calls without having to use the headset. Of course, this won't be a permanent solution, but it may bridge me through these tough times with the dopod.
I have to say, I still love this phone, but my patience is wearing a bit thin. First, it's the disappearing SD card (which I'm not even sure if it's solved yet), then I was having some problems with sending MMS messages, now this. :x
I had the speaker problem with my Jam. It is apparently a common problem with PPC phones, the mechanical switch in the headphone jack gets stuck. I was able to get mine to work again by plugging in the headphone jack a few times. If that doesn't solve the problem...well you know the drill
There is nothing to do but exchange it--I was never able to find a work around either. Sorry.
I had problem the speaker on my HTC Charmer. I send it for repair and they replaced the speaker, with in like a week+.
However, now there are some other problems. It seems that when I try to use the speaker (play songs, phone, games, etc), the battery drain like mad and the unit gets very hot. The unit drain so much energy that the battery will die off even if I had the unit on AC power. Going to send it back to repair AGAIN!
gunggu said:
I've had this problem, what I did was play music using headphone and suddenly unplug the jack. The Speaker works again like charm.
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had the exact same problem and suddenly unpluging the jack works for me..
this "sudden unplugging" thing won't work with Prophet, the Prophet's buzzer(speaker) problem is very common, the same thing happened to me, cost me 12$ in iran to change that part
818pro speaker problem Hardware related
I had the same problem.
Speaker unit in phone burns out very quickly.
If you have warranty - your lucky.
In my case since I bought in Singapore and Use in Israel, I had to fork out 50USD to get a new speaker unit.
Tal
What you do is open the Comm Manager, tap the "phone" icon to set to flight mode. Then, turn on again.... that should do the trick
I don't know what planet most of you guys are on.
The Prophet has a common problem with the rear speaker - it's a hardware issue as X_Farhad has pointed out.
There's no need to hard reset, and what's the crap about flight mode?
Yes, some can have a problem with the headphone socket and the solution for that is in this thread.
Mostly it's the speaker itself. The solution is here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=281331
I've found a bit of sponge works better than paper - to see what I'm on about - go to the thread I've posted here.
Speaker issues and phone hangs
I also have similar issues with my Xda Neo. The speakers stops responding when i get incoming call. I mean the phone dosent ring. Then if i try any music player or ringtons, there is no sound. I have to soft reset. Sometime when i get incoming call, it dosent ring and it also hangs the phone. Then i have to hard reset. I had to use that sponge over the speaker and then the speaker works. But sometime it still hangs. Looks like either HTC or Windows Mobile has major issues. I dont know how long this sponge thing will work. Are there any solutions..
sameer
Tal,
I have dopod 818 pro and having the same phenomenon like others, now I'm abroad and can not check the thing with the headset.
Can you tell me please where can I get service in Israel (I bought mine in Thai).
Many thanks
Dotan
sound problem
Dear all and administrator
can you give me solution about my dopod sound problem?
1. I just can used ring tones for receiving new messaging from the my dopod system ( I can't not used ring tones from my gallery/downloaded sound/ring tones application )
2. When new message coming and phone call coming, the sound is very small (can your's give me information how to setting that so the volume can be more loud).
Thank you very much for your's attention, I'm very apprenticed if the solution can being send to my private e-mail address at [email protected]
anyone have solutions on this issue? thanks
There is no sound. I plugged in the head phones and i can hear out of that, but when i unplug it, i get no sound. It's like its still plugged in. Can anyone help me, or has anyone else experienced this?
sorry i have an o2 xda neo
Might be another instance of a known design issue with Prophet. Many people have hit this problem - mine did this and needed to be returned for repair.
Try putting the headphone jack in again and then out. Repeat like this for a while and your sound will come back on. If it doesn't, repeat faster.
This is a known issue where the sound disappears. Basically, a switch needs to be flipped for the prophet to know that the headset is out. Sometimes, this switch doesn't get flipped and the prophet thinks the headset is still connected, while actually its not.
If my solution sounds a bit crazy, it is...but its the only way and you don't need to send it in for repair. Search around and you'll find the same solution everywhere. People have also used a safety pin. But best is the headset jack itself.
How long mate? 2 hours? 3? I wish it had worked that way. I tried everything... still no sound. I think it is a crappy hardware. I think HTC should collect all prophets... I mean if it were a decent company.
Its just a little lower quality hardware, I agree.
If that doesn't work, try soft resetting. If that doesn't work, try hard resetting.
Its better to try all options before sending it in to the service centre, where it'll get screwed around and probably be kept for 2 weeks or something, due to "unavailability of parts"..
It is not working, removing and inserting again n again, some other method, i will have to try to open it, as it is not under waranty and it is also without bill, plz suggest me something
This seems to be a major problem with the HTC Prophet as a whole regardless of the branding. I have returned mine to Orange for a replacement, they confirmed that it was hardware failure. I thought that I might have just got unlucky with a bad batch, but looking across the NET and here, it appears that all brands based on the HTC Prophet are failing.
Obviously, shoddy manufacturing, I guess HTC did a little penny pinching with the speaker system.
I have same issue with my dopod 818 pro the plug and unplug trick did not work for me I have to send my to http://www.PocketPCTechs.com they have the device repaired for me now my device is back to business now..
I have the same problem here but i bit different... i was using an external speaker system, when i unplugged the jack from my spv m600 i did't get any sound the only sound i have is when i receive a call then i hear the ringtone but when i pick up i don't hear anything and probably the other side doesn't hear me...i tried to put the jack in and out but no results now i am obliged to use my phone with the headset...
same problem...solved!!
hi, today i had the same problem...no sound at all after i unplugged an external sound system. I plugged again the 2.5mm and unplugged it very fast a few times untill i got my sound back!!!
good luck
pixie
My m600 has been back to Orange for repairs for this problem. Works again perfect now.
Robin
PhoenixAG said:
Try putting the headphone jack in again and then out. Repeat like this for a while and your sound will come back on. If it doesn't, repeat faster.
This is a known issue where the sound disappears. Basically, a switch needs to be flipped for the prophet to know that the headset is out. Sometimes, this switch doesn't get flipped and the prophet thinks the headset is still connected, while actually its not.
If my solution sounds a bit crazy, it is...but its the only way and you don't need to send it in for repair. Search around and you'll find the same solution everywhere. People have also used a safety pin. But best is the headset jack itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had the same problem today, googled, found this thread, followed your solution..... and it works fine again!
Thank you very much!
DrStein666 said:
I had the same problem today, googled, found this thread, followed your solution..... and it works fine again!
Thank you very much!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does not always work.
It did not do the trick for me for sure. Orange had to repair it for me.
Robin
sound problem fixed by yourself
Hi all!
very easy! Just plug-in and plug-out hand-phone abit strong, it will get back!
lucky!
Thanks !
Worked for me !
Youpy
All,
I have a MDA Compact II using the latest T-Mobile ROM and experiencing a problem regarding incoming phone calls and text messages notifications. I have set the phone to ring full volume and text messages are assigned to an audio notification. Occasionally when I receive texts/phone calls there is no audio notification even though they are switched on. I am missing quite a few phone calls and the only way to get the audio notification back is to soft rest the phone.
Does anyone know how to get around this?
Thanks
M
Just to say I have exactly the same problem. phone working fine for 3 months then sound only after soft reset, then stops working after a couple of days. i cant attribute it to any event
U2 have probably a program installed which is eating up sound handles (i.e. not releasing them after usage). A soft-reset releases them of course. So you have to uninstall some 3rd party software to find the nasty one...
No Audio
Hi
Am running a T-Mobile Compact 2 with WM5, also installed is Spb Pocket Plus
I have no audio for any Windows Media Files or for any sounds / notifications e.g. the alarm. I do get audio playback and notifications through wired headphones. The phone will ring and vibrate when called.
2 Soft resets and the removal of an Alert progam unwittingly installed from Skyscape (medical and nursing texts for PDA) have not resolved the issue.
I have been into sounds and notifications and ticked all the relevant boxes. Interestingly in notifications I ticked the box for the device to vibrate when using activesync. It was vibrating but not making any sounds earlier.
One of the seniour guys at Pocketnow.Com has suggested that I have somehow turned down the speaker volume. If so - how do I turn it back up? Trust me when I say that the standard volume display shows volume at full.
Any ideas?
Will.
Hi
I've just got back into work tonight and synced with my work PC. When active sync started up the audio came back online. I have no idea why.
Any deas?
Will.
Still No Audio
Hi,
Last night the audio on my T-Mobile Compact 2 came back online when I was synced with my work computer - great! I even unplugged the USB lead and audio remained. I then resynced and carried on listening to headphones for a few hours while I worked. When I disconnected I found that Audio had died again. I therfore assumed that it was an issue with Activsync 4.1. I deleted the sync relationship on both my device and the PC, did a soft reset and created a new one. Still no audio.
Does anyone have any ideas about what is going on? I am thinking about a hard reset if no one has any thoughts.
Will.
Hi,
have just tried calling my deviced from a landline, what i've found is that the device will ring but that I am unable to communicate using it (Can't recieve or send voice) unless I use the wired handsfree kit. Have not tried a bluetooth headset.
Will.
Sound problems with telephone
If your PDA works when playing sound files but you cannot hear anything when telephoning, the problem is usually bad contacts on the phone earpiece.
The PDA has 2 speakers, one for sounds and a smaller one for the telephone.
You must open up the animal and clean the contacts on the motherboard.
Hope this helps.
Bob
I have the same problem...sound is often working normally, but sometimes it just stops for a few days or longer. It is very annoying to always take the wired headset with you. Soft-resetting does not help in my case. I also have SPB pocket plus installed and a wireless network SDIO card. I could however not find a general rule that makes the sound stop... e.g. installed software or activesync problems.
I read earlier about cleaning up the speakers, but I have no idea how to open up the phone. Suggestions?
It could be the problem from the wired handsfree jack/socket, once you are taking the pin out, the socket is not switching the device speaker functionality back.
The picture attached is for illustration only, and the functionality is to cut all the sounds from the device and through to the hansfree, and once the handsfree is out then to restore the device's original sound system.
Not 100% sure but someone can try to clean the jack without opening the device.
1. Switch-off the device, remove the battery, leave it for 10-15 minutes.
2. spray a minimum quantity of CONTACT CLEANER ( http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=4153&criteria=contact cleaner&doy=15m11 )
3. Leave the device again for 10-15 minutes to evaporate any moisture
4. Put back the battery and try now.
GoodLuck
Sidd
Has anyone tried yet??
yes, hands-free socket could be the problem
My beloved Jam suddenly lost sound yesterday, and it does seem to have been caused by a physical failure inside the hands-free socket. I was able to fix the sound by opening up the device, opening the little black box that houses the socket, and tweaking the contacts.
All sound suddenly disappeared except for bluetooth and the wired hands-free earphones. Without using those accessories, there was no phone audio, no sound from speaker (from ANY source), and--interestingly--the mic did not work at all. But calls worked fine through the BT headset, and all sounds from all sources came through the wired earphones when they were plugged in.
This evidence all pointed to the existence of a switch inside the hands-free socket that was stuck, telling the device to send all sound to the wired earphones even when they weren't plugged in. After opening the device and the box that houses the socket, I pried the contacts a bit with a pocket knife, hoping to ensure that when the there's no jack inserted in the socket, the device will know it. Sure enough, after I put things back together, sound is once again functioning properly. Whew!
BTW, the problem started after I took the Jam skiing so I could listen to music. It might even have been caused when the earphone jack was violently pulled out at one point. Anyway, I had already decided not to try that again, because the Jam seems to stop functioning reliably above 9,000 feet.
Hi, I had the same problem as all of you, what i did to fix it was...
1. plug in handsfree
2. pull handsfree ^up^
3. now slowly pull out
This should cure the problem as it cured mine
thousand thanks to Ayyub and mtn_lion. i'm glad i went to page 2 of this topic. now i can invest my time for important projects. the importance of sharing ideas in this world will help evolving each other without having to go through the same paths again. to everyone reading this: it's okay to share your painful steps even though you didnt find a working solution! dont make others do the same mistakes over and over again. support the evolution. it could save your life and millions of others soon or later.
polar20
We have to thank everyone who posted in this topic. Without them, we would mostly still be struggling. Great contribution folks!
same problem here
I, too have an t-mobile MDA and have had the same exact sound problem with and and have exchanged two with t-mobile - all three lost sound after a day or two and the only thing that brings it back is a soft reset. I do NOT use a hands free unit pr plug anything into the headphone jack so that's not the problem. T-Mobile claims to know nothing about this problem....
Jim
Littleton, CO
well, i was experiencing the same problem when uninstalled "pocket zen phone" application. after uninstall, charmer sometimes lost sound completely and only softreset brings the sound on again. hardreset solved this completely, not using PZP anymore...
Hi I have this same problem with my T-Mobila MDA Vario II, it did hapen before to me but i just did hard reset and thath solved the problem, but this time it didn't helped. I allready reflash MDA with 3 different systems and still this same, i was trying to plugin in and out handsfree kit but that didn't help. MDA doesn't have any sound now, only thrue handsfree kit. Is any one have any more ideas what i can do?
It unblocked it self after 24 hours lying on the shelf, so still don't know what's couising the problem.
Ok guys, i've a really huge problem: the speaker and the microphone of my wizard don't work anymore. Don't know why - there was no impact on the phone (it didn't fall out of my pocket or so). The two speakers on the sides are working sometimes but the one for calling doesn't work. Even the microphone doesn't work anymore - no one can hear me and I can't hear anyone. This sucks!
I thought of a software problem, but even after the third different rom I've had the same symptoms. I'm thinking about disassembly the phone with the service manual.
What do you guys think? What should I do? Anyone experienced this?
Had something similar
Speakers weren't working at all so i had to use my headset . 3 minutes later I got furious and took the phone and headset and repeatedly plugged and unplugged it to and from the jack.
it actually worked somehow, i was able to use the speakers again
I guess my actions caused it to short itself back to normal
You can easily replace it for about 5 bucks.
Well, i'm goning to take the phone apart to fix this - maybe the contacts to the speaker are just corroded. But I have to say, that the phone sucks! Nothing's working like it should.
I'm having this same problem, it happens for a while then it fixes itself. anyone find a solution?
Fix
The contacts that switch between the headset and the internal speaker/mic are most likely not making a good connection. You can take it apart and clean them/replace the jack.
Another (much easier) approach is to put some dielectric grease (auto parts stores carry it, it's used to keep spark plug boots from sticking to spark plugs or coil packs) on the contacts of the headset jack (the part that goes into the phone) and plug it in and out a dozen times. This will usually fix it for a long time. I've fixed several Wizards this way, and they haven't failed yet.
Tom
I just had this exact same problem for the first time last night, I was playing a computer game on my desktop and a plane flew over head and my wifi internet went out and my phone did exactly what your talking about.
It was just weird that it all happened at the same time. I can hear anything out of the speaker except for when someone is calling or i get a text.
Thank god i found this post, I will try doing something crazy or maybe cleaning it out.
Be checkin' back!
Yesterday, something strange happened... The speaker and microphone on my Universal stopped working - all of a sudden, out of hte blue, and completely inexplicably!
I spent 4 hours on a train yesterday, and was listening to music on my Uni nearly all the way through. I had also used it to make calls and it was working fine. Since I was using normal headphones rather than the bundled hands-free headset, making a call involved unplugging the headphones and holding the phone to my ear - so I know that, for at least part of the day, the phone's speaker and mic where working perfectly!
I kept on listening to music on my cans until the journey ended. I then check my phone and find 9 missed calls, from various people. "Strange," I thought, "I had the headphones on all the time - why didn't I hear it ring?"
I try to call back some of the people who had tried to get to me. As I watch "dialling..." switch to "connected", I hold the phone up to my ear and say "Hello...?" and hear nothing in return! I try again several times, with the same result. I try soft-resetting the phone a few times. I try switching from 3G to GPRS in case it was a radio problem. Nope, not a radio problem, as I can still send and receive texts. A few start coming in. They read "I CANT HEAR U! R U ALLRIGHT?" Great, so it's not just the speaker, it's the microphone too. I try making another call, but using speakerphone: doesn't work, and in fact won't even enter speakerphone mode! I press "Speakerphone on" on the touchscreen but it just doesn't want to go there - the speakerphone icon doesn't appear on the status bar, and the button doesn't change to "Spreakerphone off" as it should do.
I get home, do several more resets. No result. I try plugging in the headphones and playing an mp3 file. As I suspected: I can hear just fine through the 'phones, but when I try to unplug them to see if there would be music coming out through the phone's speakers as well, they stay mute.
Great, I thought, phone's busted! Well, still works... but not as a phone! Unless I permanently use some hands free solution. So, an unwieldy device just got more awkward to use!
I leave it disassembled (battery and sim card out) and put it in a drawer. I'm already thinking about new phones to buy when I go to sleep. The next morning, I decide I need to check my calendar, so I put my phone back together and switch it on. The battery had run down completely: it now thinks it's January 1st 2006. Happy days, I remember them: my phone worked back then. Then, all of a sudden, someone calls me and, oh joy of joys! It RINGS! I can HEAR it! It's 2006 again! I answer, casually have a conversation on a working phone, and hang up. Problem solved! Phone shopping averted!
The question is, why would this weirdness happen? The speaker and mic stopped working LITERALLY in the middle of using them! I was sure that they had gone, that it was a hardware problem and it would need repair or replacement, but no, it turns out it was some kind of software problem which leaving the phone off overnight fixed! Why would it break so suddenly, and why would just leaving it off fix it? Anyone vaguely tech-savvy want to hazard a guess?
If you use earphones, your 3.5 plug is simply shorted when you pulled the earphones out. What I suggest you do is start playing some music or sound files on your media player and insert a very fine thin screwdriver into the earphone plug then wiggle it lightly until the sound from your speakers comes back.
Yea i had same problem ... and as Enigma said it is due to some left over of 3.5 m jack....the phone still thinks the jack is plugged in, hence no sound from built in speakers.... just take a toothpick and wiggle it in the 3.5 m earphone socket or you can just blow it with some air.....