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I'm new to WM5 having previously had a Blue Angel running 2003SE; so far I like my new toy by am wondering about the pros and cons regrading where to install applications Storage Card versus Main Memory. Obviously, installing on Storage card keeps memory free - this is a good thing, but will applications run slower from storage card?
What expereinace can you share regarding thsi?
Thanks
Chris
In WM2003, internal storage ROM is only used to store a backup of the OS and vendor extensions, and is only read during hard resets. Volatile RAM is used to store the OS, files, and applications during regular use (unless they are installed on the SD card), and so their storage must compete with the RAM needed for running programs.
WM5 changes everything -- with WM5, the OS, applications and files always get stored in a nonvolatile storage, be it internal or external, and this is separate from the RAM. Thus battery loss does not cause you to lose installed applications or files. RAM is totally available for running programs, and is not used to store files which are rarely used. There is no more competition for RAM between stored files and running programs.
The WM5 OS and applications running in the background will always use a certain amount of the 64 MB of RAM. You can free it up by removing unnecessary applications. You can also free up the non-volatile storage space by removing vendor extensions and cleaning up temporary files. See this thread, and search for "0506" in re: O2 XDA Exec ROM.
As I have not received my XDA Exec yet, I cannot comment on the speed differences between using internal storage and SD storage. Obviously both are slower than running programs stored in RAM, and depend on the speed on the storage card. But the difference between installing on a SD card and installing in the "default location" is less in WM5 than in WM2003. Installing in the default location won't reduce your available RAM, for example.
I'm sure others have opinions on how best to optimize memory.
thanks for the answer. I posed the question because I pretty much ran out of memory on my device. I have installed in Corporate mode, so don't have O2 active etc. I have just done a hard reset & will now install everything on my storage card just to see what happens
I have had a few WM5 devices. Basically install everything on a removable card. Only install on the internal storage utilities that you are likely to keep around and restrict this to a minimum and small things, like vbar, TRE, etc.
The disadvantage of course is that if you swap SD cards then you can't run applications until you put back in the card installed. I never have this problem as I have only 1gb card permanently in the system. I will shortly be upgrading to a 4gb card (as they are not around £100) which means this is less of a problem. Although note that in the current version of the xda exec's software the camera refuses to write to a 4gb card unless at least 2gb is full.
rgds
I too have a 1Gb card with a 4Gb on order. I'm not very bothered about the camera, but I have read about the 2Gb problem. Hopefully someone will fix this little bug, but until then I can save photos to main memory and then move them about
As a guide I install everything to a SD Card unless it's a today screen plugin or sync's in some way...
that's excatly my thought too - only things which have a today plugin go on the main memory; everything else to SD card - seems to work fine
Hi, is there a way to adjust the memory usage for the program, like adjust the storage and give it to program. Not like xda, the prophet does have a slider for the memory but could not be adjusted. Is there anyway how to go over this ?
Prophet, as well as many new WM5 devices have (physically) separate program and storage memories. And thus there is no built in way to adjust the amounts of the two.
The Prophet has a 64MB Ram and a 128MB Flash Size with a storage size of 42.55. Where did the 44.01 MB program came from? Is there a way to increase the MB size for the program? Because I believe that even though you can install several program using the storage, a portion of the program memory gets filled up until at the critical level, which will later play an important part once you start running a program which needs a higher memory. Any remedy to this?
The 64MB RAM is what I think should be called 'box figure'. It's what's printed on the box.
In reality you get 50+ actual RAM at leas 10 of which go to various OS functions and the rest is left for running programs to use.
Under WM5 non of it is used for files, but when you run programs, even built-in ones there are sometimes memory leaks which means that even though you closed the program some of the memory (sometimes more them 1MB) remains occupied.
The only known way to fully reclaim memory is to soft reset the device. I do it on my Jamin once a week when I am left with 12-10MB free.
Unfortunately, there is no way to add RAM to device.
Hi.
I've read some of the posts regarding RAM/ROM ... still having a difficult time understanding both. Hope someone can answer the below questions to clarify my thoughts on RAM/ROM with respect to the XDA II mini [aka Magician]
(1) If you go into setting, device_information, and then choose hardware; you see that RAM size [128], Flash size [64], and storage size [26.7]. What is storage size, is it RAM or ROM?
(2) n the memory settings, what is the best way to allocate total main memory between storage and program? Currently i have it set @ default, which is equal amounts of memory for storage and program.
Thanxs in advance for any explanations.
1: Storage = Built-in ROM
Most PPCs come with some ROM built in for programs and documents. Your Magician must have a BigStorage hacked ROM image - usually Magicians only come with ~7MB Storage, but hacking the ROM image can yield 20MB more by reallocating the (useless) Extended_ROM which is normally used by telephony providers to store their customisations and bells and whistles.
2: Your choice!
Allocating more memory to programs will give running programs more RAM to work with, which primarily means that you can run more programs simultaneously. Also allocating more RAM to programs can speed up programs that use lots of RAM such as PocketGBA, which may load up to 32MB of data into RAM depending on what game you load with it, and TCPMP, which uses RAM to buffer videos.
Allocating more memory to storage gives you more room to install programs in 'Main Memory'. Since RAM is faster than ROM, programs installed in storage allocated RAM will load faster, however they will eat up RAM which could otherwise be used by running programs. The time difference between RAM, Storage and SD cards to load programs is neglible anyway.
Personally I would rather allocate as much as possible towards programs, leaving probably as little as 10MB for storage in total. Since you have BigStorage, install programs into there instead, so you can leave your RAM for programs or for the camera (as there is a noticeable speed difference between writing pictures and videos to ROM and writing them to RAM).
Wish I had a 128MB Magician :roll: !
thanxs for clearing that up toomuchdogfur
1: Storage = Built-in ROM
Most PPCs come with some ROM built in for programs and documents. Your Magician must have a BigStorage hacked ROM image - usually Magicians only come with ~7MB Storage, but hacking the ROM image can yield 20MB more by reallocating the (useless) Extended_ROM which is normally used by telephony providers to store their customisations and bells and whistles.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see. Just wondering, if i were to upgrade or degrade my version of ROM, would that delete the BigStorage hacked ROM?
2: Your choice!
Allocating more memory to programs will give running programs more RAM to work with, which primarily means that you can run more programs simultaneously. Also allocating more RAM to programs can speed up programs that use lots of RAM such as PocketGBA, which may load up to 32MB of data into RAM depending on what game you load with it, and TCPMP, which uses RAM to buffer videos.
Allocating more memory to storage gives you more room to install programs in 'Main Memory'. Since RAM is faster than ROM, programs installed in storage allocated RAM will load faster, however they will eat up RAM which could otherwise be used by running programs. The time difference between RAM, Storage and SD cards to load programs is neglible anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So let me get this straight ... if were to load a application, say Pocket Music, would that effect both the "In Use" status for Storage [because it physically takes space to store the application in the program folder] and Program [because its being used].
So if a program is being runned, it should take away some memory under "Program".
If a program is installed, regardless if it is in use or not, takes away some memory under "Storage".
Is this correct?
dream_sequence said:
I see. Just wondering, if i were to upgrade or degrade my version of ROM, would that delete the BigStorage hacked ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep. Most likely you would have to hack it again to regain BigStorage.
dream_sequence said:
So if a program is being runned, it should take away some memory under "Program".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep!
dream_sequence said:
If a program is installed, regardless if it is in use or not, takes away some memory under "Storage".
Is this correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it is installed in 'Main Memory' (which is the 'Storage' bit of your RAM), then yes. If it is installed in your Built-In Storage or SD card, then it will permanently take up space on that instead, but then when running it will also take up some 'Program' RAM.
Hi
I have installed a few programs on my TD2 - all to device rather than storage card - and am getting a little concerned that performance may be suffering. With my prevous device I used SK Tools to move apps to the card - but I'm not 100% clear whether this is good practice.
With nothing running, Settings reports 223.10 MB free for storage (75.29 in use) and 75.87 MD free for programs (108 in use). I have installed things like Sprite Backup and Terminator, ActivePrint, SPB FreeCell, MyLife Organized PocketPC Edition, Resco Sudoku Touch and Gaz TD2 Tools.
Really grateful for any advice.
Thanks
I don't see why installing programs to the device memory should cause performance to suffer? It's only available RAM memory which affects performance, and this remains the same whether you instal to the device or to the card. It's when you open, and leave open, several programs at once that performance suffers.
The nice thing about modern phones is the amount of internal storage, which is plenty for masses of programs. The only performance issue you may have is when downloading large files with Internet Explorer, as I think it uses internal storage as temporary space for the file being downloaded, even if you tell it to save to the memory card. I don't think Opera does this though.
Installing programs to the card means you can't "hot-swap" it unless you're absolutely sure all the programs are closed.
In addition to the above internal phone mem is faster than mem card so performance takes a hit if you use the card.
And you run the risk of more freezes and resets being needed.
It is my firm belief that the use of internal mem avoids a lot of hassles all round by making the phone more stable.
And I almost forgot that internal mem uses less battery power than mem cards.
Easy answer...
Use removable storage for data, on-board storage for apps.
If you have too many apps for on-board storage, consider a slimmer ROM for your phone. Remember on-board storage also works as RAM for your apps, so the more you have available, the more apps you can run.
DeathJester said:
Use removable storage for data, on-board storage for apps.
If you have too many apps for on-board storage, consider a slimmer ROM for your phone. Remember on-board storage also works as RAM for your apps, so the more you have available, the more apps you can run.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd check on that last statement if I were you!
The Topaz has 3 memory areas.
One for flashed ROM.
One for operating RAM.
AND one for storage.
It makes no difference how much you put in storage RAM.
It does make a difference how many apps are running at any one time in operating RAM.
A slimmer ROM image won't make much difference either.
How much of that ROM image is unnecessarily floating around in operating RAM at any one time will make a difference.
Go to settings/system/device information/hardware inforamation
I currently show
RAM size
288 MB
Flash memory size
512 MB
Storage size
342.47 MB
That's a lot of free storage available onboard that is just waiting to be used.
If you go into settings/system/memory you will find storage and program memory values displayed.
Install an app and the in use value of storage memory goes up.
Run an app and the in use value of program memory goes up.
Showing that they are two quite separate physical areas running "independantly" of each other.
Thanks!
Thanks for the helpful responses - much appreciated.
Andrew
werdna72 said:
Thanks for the helpful responses - much appreciated.
Andrew
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your welcome to any help we can give.
Hello,
Can someone elaborate on what is meant by Storage memory and Program memory?
I would expect storage to be My Docs and Programs to be Windows and so on. I ask since my Storage allocation is two thirds full and all my docs on the device is empty. I use the SD card for that.
Cheers.
rphillip said:
Hello,
Can someone elaborate on what is meant by Storage memory and Program memory?
I would expect storage to be My Docs and Programs to be Windows and so on. I ask since my Storage allocation is two thirds full and all my docs on the device is empty. I use the SD card for that.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
-Storage memory is memory used for saving files on you're phone, extention is you're memory card (micro SD).
-Program memory, is like the RAM-memory on you're PC, this is used when running programmes, watching movies-pictures...
Thanks. Well there are two storage areas. "Main" and "Storage Card". My query is for "Main". Within this there is "Storage" and "Program".
I would like to know what is used for what so I can look in a specific area and delete stuff I don't need. Like I said "Storage" seems rather full but I do not store anything on the phone itself. I use the storage card which does not present a problem.
In the storage info on the settings tab, under device it shows "storage" which is like your hard drive, and "program" which is like your RAM. Obviously, you don't actually have a hard drive. It's just an example
There's certain stuff that gets cached on the internal storage, and this can obviously bump up the space that's used (there's threads on here for cleaning/moving these things). Then there's the other culprit - Marketplace. If you've installed stuff from there, it's on internet memory, not your storage card. Also, do you install software to the device, or to the storage card? I only put essential stuff on the device, and stuff that I can live without on the storage card.
Just thoughts and suggestions.
johncmolyneux said:
In the storage info on the settings tab, under device it shows "storage" which is like your hard drive, and "program" which is like your RAM. Obviously, you don't actually have a hard drive. It's just an example
There's certain stuff that gets cached on the internal storage, and this can obviously bump up the space that's used (there's threads on here for cleaning/moving these things). Then there's the other culprit - Marketplace. If you've installed stuff from there, it's on internet memory, not your storage card. Also, do you install software to the device, or to the storage card? I only put essential stuff on the device, and stuff that I can live without on the storage card.
Just thoughts and suggestions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah ok that explains a little then. I have been installing cabs to the device.
Do not understand; my total storage memory is 181,23MB, in use is 175,21MB, but when I check in explorer, there is only 89MB in use. What am I missing here??
Also, what does it mean program storage - total space 336,97MB?
Flash size 512MB, RAM size 448MB, what is the difference?
Its rather more complex than it ought to be, and HTC are being a little 'economical' with the truth!
It has 512MB of total storage, of which about 175MB is taken up by the ROM image. This leaves the 337MB you see reported. Of this, about 150MB is taken up by the HTC Sense system, then another chunk by the video memory leaving around 135MB free to the user. The new 'Light' custom ROMs without HTC Sense have over 300MB free to the user.
The 448MB RAM is just that- same as a PCs RAM. Even after loading the OS on startup there is ample ROM left for pretty much any eventuality!