Related
HELLO
EVERY DAY SINCE THE ISSUED OF THIS FORUM ----I CHECK IF THERE IS A NEW THING APART FROM HOW TO LIBERATE THE SHIFT AND THERE IS NOTHING
ALOT OF WRITING AND TALKING AND ALOT OF POSTS WICH IS USELES ^_*
NO BODY CN FIGURE OUT ANY NEW THING
NO GPS, SD , RAM ,HD , BLUETOOTH , EVEN THERE IS NO GOOD SOFTWARES FOR UMPC
ALOT OF ROOMS WICH NOT WORKING
IT IS A WASTING TIME FORUM
spoke too soon i guess the terminology, u got a fully fledged working liberated rom for gps, and its a good edition, we have to continue to talk even if no result appears so we can show the honored developers that we are still egger for what ever they are finding so they continue to develope, otherwise they will think theretime is just lost for bunsh of ghosts, if you look at my post onto ways of using ur shift so u can make it more intersting untill that time where u its completly unlocked, i think september is going to be the best month for shift full of good news and following to that xmass time where the big bomb phone being enabled am not ofcourse basing this on any finding nor i have contacted Nostradamos lately , its how i wish things to go
(1) And what did you contribute?
pcangel said:
HELLO
EVERY DAY SINCE THE ISSUED OF THIS FORUM ----I CHECK IF THERE IS A NEW THING APART FROM HOW TO LIBERATE THE SHIFT AND THERE IS NOTHING
ALOT OF WRITING AND TALKING AND ALOT OF POSTS WICH IS USELES ^_*
NO BODY CN FIGURE OUT ANY NEW THING
NO GPS, SD , RAM ,HD , BLUETOOTH , EVEN THERE IS NO GOOD SOFTWARES FOR UMPC
ALOT OF ROOMS WICH NOT WORKING
IT IS A WASTING TIME FORUM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[2] Do you have better ideas to help this out?
I do not contribute, since I do not know anything of programming, but at least, read and support the work of many, many people, which do it for free. However, one of the things I will never do is demand anything here, only wait patiently.
Since I bought my Tytn two years ago, one of the reasons I bought the Shift (and very soon the Diamond) was the existence of "xda-developers" and the people which is in here.
Please, be more sensible to all of us: read the forum if you like, take and use the software which suits to you, but never, never demand anything here. The only thing you can do is to be grateful to all those unknown people which make possible the existence of this site.
José.
villalain said:
I do not contribute, since I do not know anything of programming, but at least, read and support the work of many, many people, which do it for free. However, one of the things I will never do is demand anything here, only wait patiently.
Since I bought my Tytn two years ago, one of the reasons I bought the Shift (and very soon the Diamond) was the existence of "xda-developers" and the people which is in here.
Please, be more sensible to all of us: read the forum if you like, take and use the software which suits to you, but never, never demand anything here. The only thing you can do is to be grateful to all those unknown people which make possible the existence of this site.
José.
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i agree 100% with you am a user of windows based mobile since 2003 and i still use it because of this forum, it always made any phone i buy worth 4 or 5 times more than its reall value, even the shift now if it coasts 1400
i would say my return value is like that
600 for vista laptop side
300 for winmo side
the remainder is what this site will give me and guess what after 1 year from today the value will be another 900 dollars which is more than the original value where you have bought this phone at
pcangel said:
HELLO
EVERY DAY SINCE THE ISSUED OF THIS FORUM ----I CHECK IF THERE IS A NEW THING APART FROM HOW TO LIBERATE THE SHIFT AND THERE IS NOTHING
ALOT OF WRITING AND TALKING AND ALOT OF POSTS WICH IS USELES ^_*
NO BODY CN FIGURE OUT ANY NEW THING
NO GPS, SD , RAM ,HD , BLUETOOTH , EVEN THERE IS NO GOOD SOFTWARES FOR UMPC
ALOT OF ROOMS WICH NOT WORKING
IT IS A WASTING TIME FORUM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Firstly, take your caps lock off, it means youre shouting!
Secondly, I have owned a Shift since the day it was released in the UK. these forums have been invaluable to me personally. Using the forums I have: -
Liberated my Shift
Dual Booting my shift with XP
Solved a Wi-fi problem
Taken advice on the dissapearing SD card issues
And will be trying the new ROM
How can you possibly say its a waste of time. Its comments like yours (which are obviously written in anger) that really annoy me. I am not a programmer so I cannot assist with ROMs etc, but I check this forum everyday and I am thankful the guys/gals at XDA-Developers keep this site up and running for FREE for the likes of you and me.
I suggest you get off your high horse and apologise. If it wasnt for the likes of Cmonex, Prof and Febelus (who worked so hard finding XP drivers) sites like XDA-Developers would not exist, then we'd all have to work a lot harder to make our devices more usuable.
pcangel said:
HELLO
EVERY DAY SINCE THE ISSUED OF THIS FORUM ----I CHECK IF THERE IS A NEW THING APART FROM HOW TO LIBERATE THE SHIFT AND THERE IS NOTHING
ALOT OF WRITING AND TALKING AND ALOT OF POSTS WICH IS USELES ^_*
NO BODY CN FIGURE OUT ANY NEW THING
NO GPS, SD , RAM ,HD , BLUETOOTH , EVEN THERE IS NO GOOD SOFTWARES FOR UMPC
ALOT OF ROOMS WICH NOT WORKING
IT IS A WASTING TIME FORUM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please if you do not like it think that no one forced you to join.
respect the effort of all the members.
if you cant find anything usefull then try harder to find it, myself I found a lot of things here.
regards
and keep your voice down.
pcangel said:
HELLO
EVERY DAY SINCE THE ISSUED OF THIS FORUM ----I CHECK IF THERE IS A NEW THING APART FROM HOW TO LIBERATE THE SHIFT AND THERE IS NOTHING
ALOT OF WRITING AND TALKING AND ALOT OF POSTS WICH IS USELES ^_*
NO BODY CN FIGURE OUT ANY NEW THING
NO GPS, SD , RAM ,HD , BLUETOOTH , EVEN THERE IS NO GOOD SOFTWARES FOR UMPC
ALOT OF ROOMS WICH NOT WORKING
IT IS A WASTING TIME FORUM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you dont submit anything and only like to take you have no right to say anything .
I dont know how to program and therefore Iam very happy with this site it helps me a lot there is a answer here for most problems and there are people here dedicating a lot of there spare time to help us and I suppose themself out . we should salute them not attack them .
There is ofcourse a better solution please stay of this site or keep silent.
Agree with everyone's comments - firstly, please respect the work that has already taken place...it is not insiginificant as you would have us all think. Secondly, liek me you propbably cannot contribute to code work, but you CAN contribute support by discussing experiences no matter how small.
Communities are about sharing, not sitting back waiting for those doing the work to deliver rewards at your feet...wake up...
I guess the most obvious statement would be :
" When you bought the Shift, didnt you know about all its limitations
or do you just want to mooch of contributions to this forum? "
i am so tired of people who buy their devices, expecting the members
of this forum to turn them in to marbels of technology.
I bought the shift because I thought it would be useful for me, and it is.
Any modification, hint or advice from the people here and any contribution
i can make, are god given.
Thank you all for the hard work guys and girls...
Well said!
aquasesh said:
I guess the most obvious statement would be :
" When you bought the Shift, didnt you know about all its limitations
or do you just want to mooch of contributions to this forum? "
i am so tired of people who buy their devices, expecting the members
of this forum to turn them in to marbels of technology.
I bought the shift because I thought it would be useful for me, and it is.
Any modification, hint or advice from the people here and any contribution
i can make, are god given.
Thank you all for the hard work guys and girls...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
aquasesh
You are right. I come here regularly, so that I could learn something and make my devices for better usage by extending and expanding their capabilities. This forum is more educative than anything else. Sometimes you have to wait for a better result. This is not a paid forum or support. Everyone here is putting their free cycles and making these devices more powerful and useful. the more you wait, the more you learn. Majority of times it takes a lot of time, because it is step by step advancement not a single day work, because most of us have to learn and understand device architecture and remove barriers; even a human's birth takes well more than 9 months and patience. There will be people like pcAngel, who would want everything right immediately, well then, they should not buy Shift.
Thank you very much to everyone, who is contributing to make our devices powerful.
My 2 cents
Ram
I find myself as a long time lurker needing to come out from under my rock and finally comment about this quite stereotypical noob troll. From his utterly 733tspeak, caps lock pounding, noob troll bleat we can determine that he most likely is the quintessential internet tough guy that can not afford one of these devices unless he steals it. I am in awe the moron here can find something on the internet other then 2girls1cup and his hand on his snake. That being said, after powering through his 12 year old fresh on a post board rant, I am still lost as to what if anything this troll wants to express other then the " I am entitled to it because I [email protected]#$ing say so" post of the ignorant. That being said I am curious, junior, whether your 12 year old idiot ass, understands what goes into reverse engineering a device ROM and then building a custom built ROM? Please let us know so we can add you to the project.
Jackass...
Well..........
I agree with saiweb, worldpcdude and aquasesh....
What if anything has pcangel contributed? You show your complete ignorance of the device by basically missing the point of XDA altogether...
The likes of pof / thaihugo / cmonex etc that have made invaluable progress for us all in regards to the shift's functionality should be respected and appreciated...
Yes many of us would like things faster but if you can't add to the collective through your own abilities at least have the common courtesy of not showing you complete lack of intelligence by your ill advised, impolite initial post...
If you have nothing constructive to say, spare US ALL (yes I shouted that) your indignant rant and just say NOTHING AT ALL...
Any basic research into the shift would have provided you an understanding of what it would do and where it's shortcomings were and many of us bought a shift (I was one of the first in the UK to have one) with this acceptance...
XDA has shown over many years they are masters at making a device do what it was never designed to / intended to do, and we have all been the better for it.... We need more people like the XDA developers and LESS PEOPLE LIKE YOU...
Blitzspear
Men of Little Faith.......
Someone please inform this fellow that XDA Developers is not a government department. Deep down I have a feeling that the guy never meant what was stated. My gut feeling is that his is bad case of a stale joke. So let us all laugh off the joke and live happily ever after......
I hate cowards. The fellow started this thread and vanished. If he/she/it is serious about the nasty comments why not post a response in defence of his position. He is the type that start bar brawls and quietly slip out while jaws are being broken.
Most of us bought our Shifts with full knowledge of its limitations. We all know the hardware is fantastic but the problem is the supplied software. Its like hTC merely built for us a very nice house but supplied crap furniture. And someone is working on the best formula to get us the perfect furniture for our beautiful house. Can anybody in their right mind start abusing the person who is working on a formula to supply the furniture for free??????
I bet this guy has never made similar rants against hTC. Yet he has the audacity to insult the guys who are working to make the Shift the device that we all yearn for. Methinks the fellow should be bumped off the forum!
Men of little faith!!!!
PlayStation said:
Someone please inform this fellow that XDA Developers is not a government department. Deep down I have a feeling that the guy never meant what was stated. My gut feeling is that his is bad case of a stale joke. So let us all laugh off the joke and live happily ever after......
I hate cowards. The fellow started this thread and vanished. If he/she/it is serious about the nasty comments why not post a response in defence of his position. He is the type that start bar brawls and quietly slip out while jaws are being broken.
Most of us bought our Shifts with full knowledge of its limitations. We all know the hardware is fantastic but the problem is the supplied software. Its like hTC merely built for us a very nice house but supplied crap furniture. And someone is working on the best formula to get us the perfect furniture for our beautiful house. Can anybody in their right mind start abusing the person who is working on a formula to supply the furniture for free??????
I bet this guy has never made similar rants against hTC. Yet he has the audacity to insult the guys who are working to make the Shift the device that we all yearn for. Methinks the fellow should be bumped off the forum!
Men of little faith!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just one word for you
THANK YOU *10000000000000
NB: ALSO CAPS ON
pcangel said:
Just one word for you
THANK YOU *10000000000000
NB: ALSO CAPS ON
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's two words.... if not more.
...the forum done a lot for me.
My Shift changed from useless to useful.
OK, the development is a bit slow, but there are people who do their work on a free base.
Many thanks to them!!!!
pcangel said:
Just one word for you
THANK YOU *10000000000000
NB: ALSO CAPS ON
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMAO
dude, evidently you didn't read the post, or you might have noticed that he called you for what you are... A Troll.
well....... again..........
Whilst it never gets old insulting a 'troll' could a mod lock this thread or even delete it please.
Blitz
Ok So whats this new level of idiocy, are we now trully saying that one can not ask a question that involkes opinions and subjective answers, the threads could contain factual information and objective opinions but i guess we shall never know beacuse they get closed...
I am actually supprised its got this low, if you think about it almost any question answered will be subjected to an opinional bias WE ARE HUMANS
So the two "Which ROM?" questions threads get closed i think we are all big enough to realise that what one person feels is good may not be to another but we all read reviews in mags, we all read reviews on the internet and they suffer the same problems with bias you cant remove that fact, you read the responces and judge for your self, blimey what is going on here!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=489979&page=2
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=490053
There are a ton of new ROMs out there now and it is impossible to get a "feel" of the way they perform unless you spend all of your time flashing ROMs. Constructive discussion of ROMs and their strong and weak points shouldn't be cause for public shame.
[URL=http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=canofwormsy.jpg]
[/URL]
or...
A: "Dutty's ROMs are the best!"
B: "F*** off, David's the best."
C: "You two know f*** all about ROMs; Neo's the best!"
--ad infinitum
Matterhorn said:
There are a ton of new ROMs out there now and it is impossible to get a "feel" of the way they perform unless you spend all of your time flashing ROMs. Constructive discussion of ROMs and their strong and weak points shouldn't be cause for public shame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, not everyone has the time, patience, ability, confidence to be flashing rom after rom, especially someone new to flashing. And for any user coming to these forums there is a bewildering amount of different roms and information. No one is asking for a be all and end all answer, but to get some opinions for a starting point can be very useful and inspire a bit of confidence to actually get going.
As long as constructive opinions are given, I personally don't see anything wrong in this. An answer as to why someone uses a rom for a particular reason may be the exact criteria that another person is looking for and might save that person a LOT of time and effort trying many roms first just to end up at that same rom.
The threads dazza mentioned I thought were being dealt with very constructively with some good advice in there. No one wants any flame war or anyone just being competitive with their chosen rom but please lets have some perspective, and credit most people with some intelligence and let some constructive discussion be allowed.
TraumaX said:
As long as constructive opinions are given, I personally don't see anything wrong in this. An answer as to why someone uses a rom for a particular reason may be the exact criteria that another person is looking for and might save that person a LOT of time and effort trying many roms first just to end up at that same rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree. What harm can come from contructive opinions. This may save a person numerous flashes and time. Where is the harm in that?
It saved me time when I first joined and flashed my first ROM!!
Indeed, ill not flash a ROM unless ive had a good read about others views, its my choice to listen to them or not, theres just simply too many ROMS and versions of ROMs to not allow this constructive debate.
Blackstone users have not invented the habit to ask about which ROM is the best, which to use, etc.
Threads like these get closed because very simple reasons: the discussions in the respective threads are based solely on subjective opinions and experiences.
Every ROM has description in the ROM thread and plenty of feedback inside. What might suit me would most probably not suit you. It all comes down to users' needs and what and how they use their devices. ROM expectations are based on these. Thus, asking questions about ROMs would normally generate answer pointing in a direction other users might find wrong.
All ROMs are public, with their description and feedback inside. Nobody stops users from testing and trying ROMs, according to their tasted and expectations.
I was the one closing those threads and will continue closing similar threads.
In case you have objections, complain to site Admin regarding this issue and do not throw your anger at the XDA community which supports us all.
Moving this thread to General as it has nothing to do with ROM developent!
tnyynt said:
In case you have objections, complain to site Admin regarding this issue and do not throw your anger at the XDA community which supports us all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With respect, I don't see any anger here towards XDA, just opinions again. I don't think anyone is suggesting people shouldn't read and do some research, of course they should, but there are a lot of roms, some with hundreds of pages of feedback, and it can be pretty daunting. To be sure, there is a lot of help within each of threads for the individual roms but to get some perspective and comparison of them from those who have already tried many of them with some (subjective) opinions can be extremely helpful in my view.
With respect, its not feasable to test every single ROM to get a feel for them all before maknig a choice, you dont buy a car by trying out every single car on the road, you read reviews which are ALL subjective and opinionated and then rate those experiences to your needs, that limits your choices which then allows you to try it out,
everyone knows that an opinion is just that, its a user opinion, its a view of that individual. To stop all subjective / opinionated remarks would effectively shut down the website.
For instance a thread on the Touch HDs camera speed would be factual in the sence that everyone knows its crap with moving pictures, but the thread would always be subjective since other users will notice this more, you cant stop that trate in humans its in our nature, so long as the comments are not designed to personally attack anothers view the thread will live an die on its on accord with out the need to moderate them.
With regards to why i published this, it is in the communities intrest to know what they can and cant do, im not attacking you personally for closing them, just the "rules" behind the decision. but if we are not able to keep this thread civil and it gets closed then yes ill pass on my comments to the admin instead.
We are all (mostly) adults on here lets not bring the nanny state here as well.
I can add my 5 cents here.... this is a well known problem, in every forum.
You can open a thread asking "What ROM are you using and WHY?" and IMHO this could be interesting, but asking " ROM Ratings...Your Opinions" or worst " What ROM is the best for me?" are tricky questions, because RATING and OPINIONS doesn't fit well together in the first case and BEST FOR you? ...who knows is the first answer I have in mind
This doesn't seems to have high relevance but those threads could be, on the dark side, "Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs)", starting a flame war against or pro single chefs.
Are "dangerous" threads, a thread, may be with a poll, "What rom are you using and WHY" could be dangerous but interesting and will survive ONLY if users are responsible and avoid a flame war
Thanks, 5 cents donated
As tynnyt said "this is not a blackstone problem".
This issue was discussed to death here : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=466666
Thanks
Dave
i don't have time to test each rom and for each of them to test every aspects in order to have my own conclusion.
as many others from here, would very intersted in the answer wich rom is best, but i am old enough (you would be surprised) to know that there is no answer to that question. from different reasons, pointed enough around here
what i want to suggest is a different approach, ofcourse if mods and admins will find that useful
instead in statement like x rom is better than y rom, or z rom rules, maybe guys who use or test different roms can give a feedback to others, with little experience, time or dare, concerning few aspects of the rom
for instance:
user noris08 (me) uses frank's rom v.1.5.12345. i would qualify that like that:
- glamurous looking
- moderate usability
- great battery life (15 days stand by - wouldn't you like that?)
- not so good speed
- extremely good for memory management (75% free)
- fix following known issues:
1. fix stutters in audio playing
2. add hardware acceleration for coreplayer
3. 3G signal always on 5 bars
4. gps fix in 5 sec
4. so on
- noticed bugs:
1. alarm clock doesn't work in stand by
2. appoinments shown with 2 hours delay
3. so on
- i would recomend it for mutimedia users
- i would rate it 7/10
it is likely that will be only a few guys with big harts to post their impressions, but is more then nothing.
in this way maybe we will not hurt rom developers feelings by just comparing x rom with y rom. they will also have some feed back concerning their work, appart of "thanks and great job mate"
just a thought!
cheers to everybody!
I agree 100% with the above post.
That a somewhat more acceptable way of putting things. If you also agree on benchmarking the ROMs (procedure, software used, etc.) then every user can post results/bugs/appearance/etc. and you'd have a standardized way of centralizing information that would be based on facts.
we're all big and old enough to know the difference, i think its quite disrespectful to ban such questions for several reasons, but something that is quite relevent is language.
English isnt everyones native language, gramatically speaking it might read to us as "which is the best ROM ever" but that might not be what they ment.
but whatever, seems minds are made and common sence has taken another knock back at the expence of so called politcal correctness, in this case offending the egos of the cookers out strips the need for new inexperienced users wanting simple feedback from the community about something without having to drudge through 1000s of pages of posts and spending much of there free time trying out every last ROM out there.
Just seems crazy if you ask me.
tnyynt said:
That a somewhat more acceptable way of putting things. If you also agree on benchmarking the ROMs (procedure, software used, etc.) then every user can post results/bugs/appearance/etc. and you'd have a standardized way of centralizing information that would be based on facts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, this would be a good thread to start, i.e. benchmarking the ROMs procedure, software used, etc
tnyynt said:
That a somewhat more acceptable way of putting things. If you also agree on benchmarking the ROMs (procedure, software used, etc.) then every user can post results/bugs/appearance/etc. and you'd have a standardized way of centralizing information that would be based on facts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but using your logic, is it factual?
"- great battery life (15 days stand by - wouldn't you like that?)"
hell i have that ROM and its only lasting 10 days, instantly it becomes opinionated and subjectional
ok thats an extreme example, but even with a very well laid out feedback such as that people will disagree, you have to either ban them all or let adults use their own common sence.
I would like to say add guide lines for "which ROM" requests but another human trait is that they wont read them either.
dazza9075 said:
but using your logic, is it factual?
"- great battery life (15 days stand by - wouldn't you like that?)"
hell i have that ROM and its only lasting 10 days, instantly it becomes opinionated and subjectional
ok thats an extreme example, but even with a very well laid out feedback such as that people will disagree, you have to either ban them all or let adults use their own common sence.
I would like to say add guide lines for which ROM requests but another human trait is that they wont read them in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wasn't talking about battery (but even that could be reported as Radio + ROM + usage) but about using the same benchmark tool that needs to run in the same circumstances (i.e: after hard reset, manila disabled, etc.), about reporting memory usage after start up and after a day's usage, reporting bugs, etc.
I.E.:
SKTools benchmark:
X
X
X
X
Battery:
5 days with
A Radio
B Rom
X calls/day, X minutes of wifi, X no. of messages
Memory after startup:
X used
Storage memory after hard reset:
X used
Startup time:
X seconds from vibrate till stable today screen
etc.
id agree, a simple standardised benchmark runing a number of tests over a few hours would give a good account without the opinions, any suggestions?
dazza9075 said:
id agree, a simple standardised benchmark runing a number of tests over a few hours would give a good account without the opinions, any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You Guys find a way out and ellaborate the procedure that'd help you most. I gave you some hints. I'll support that, and I believe so will my fellow MOD colleagues.
I have read many posts where people are asking which is the best rom for my device (and have done myself) only to get abrupt replies with something like "how dare you ask this, chefs put a lot of effort into each rom and its down to personal preferance blah blah" ................"THREAD CLOSED"
Does every one think think this is the best way for xda to be run or is there other people that think this should be allowed to be debated? I know this is originally a developer forum, however I would hazard a guess that there is now more public users that devolpers.
The thing is developers develope roms and yes certainly they put a lot of time and effort into it and are respected rightly so for it. however can the end user really be expected not to be allowed to discuss these roms on the forum only to be told the above mensioned things. It happens time and again over and over. People like myself (the end user) do not have time to flash every rom to find the ones they like. (its a days setting up for myself after a flash) and if its crap (which there is no denying. some are) its a day wasted.
What I think the forum needs is a "ROM USER REVIEW" section where people like myself can go and rate a rom for other users referance.
Surely this is the key to better roms. If one developers rom is poor hes going to be able to see that its poor and will/might take the user rating / comments on board and the next time try harder.... ultimately producing a better rom.
Competition is what makes better products, If handset manufacturers took the same stance as xda we would be waiting for the realease of the o2 xda 2s later this year. and this is the same in all industries.
Totally agree, people that make good ROMs should be applauded by some kind of user rating system. same way people can avoid wasting time flashing not so good or buggy ones.
jaxouk said:
I have read many posts where people are asking which is the best rom for my device (and have done myself) only to get abrupt replies with something like "how dare you ask this, chefs put a lot of effort into each rom and its down to personal preferance blah blah" ................"THREAD CLOSED"
Does every one think think this is the best way for xda to be run or is there other people that think this should be allowed to be debated? I know this is originally a developer forum, however I would hazard a guess that there is now more public users that devolpers.
The thing is developers develope roms and yes certainly they put a lot of time and effort into it and are respected rightly so for it. however can the end user really be expected not to be allowed to discuss these roms on the forum only to be told the above mensioned things. It happens time and again over and over. People like myself (the end user) do not have time to flash every rom to find the ones they like. (its a days setting up for myself after a flash) and if its crap (which there is no denying. some are) its a day wasted.
What I think the forum needs is a "ROM USER REVIEW" section where people like myself can go and rate a rom for other users referance.
Surely this is the key to better roms. If one developers rom is poor hes going to be able to see that its poor and will/might take the user rating / comments on board and the next time try harder.... ultimately producing a better rom.
Competition is what makes better products, If handset manufacturers took the same stance as xda we would be waiting for the realease of the o2 xda 2s later this year. and this is the same in all industries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the mods should close this thread too. If you don't have enough time to flash them all then take a look at what the chefs have on the menu then take a plunge based on what you think will be good for you.
The best ROMs are combination of various things to various people. I like my ROMs light and fully loaded, I like them fast, stable and I want the maximum internal storage. So how are you going to define this best ROM for me or others? There some great ROMs out there that do not fit my bill but it does not mean there are not among the best ROMs (again my view will be different than yours).
Now the warning about how there are more users then they are chefs is nothing new to developers. If they were not more users then developers, we would not need developers because you would not have the demand. That is simple economics.
To the end if you are not going to try all the ROMs and provide your opinion base on your publicly define logic of what is the best, then this will be another useless thread. This is exactly what others have done by providing benchmarks which are useful if you are into benchmarks. However, I do use the benchmark information to get numbers I am interested in (like internal storage, memory, etc...).
This is not meant to kill your inspiration but your opening comments killed the entire thread for me even though it is only one post thus far. A little bit more friendly tone could have gone a long way. Either way I am not looking for a response to my comments that way we will see how this thread shapes up.
Well here we go again. There is no answer to which rom is the best. Its your choice.
Maybe you simply love a Ford car, but well others might hate a Ford car and choose a BMW instead. Its all up to personal experience. You use one rom in one way, and maybe that rom works better that way. Then some other dude will find that rom crap because he uses it in a whole other way. Maybe he wants to use his phone for navigation and calling, so he likes the rom a lot as it does what he wants it to, but you might complain that it is a crap rom because there are some sms bugs. The other user dosn't use sms writing so he dosn't recognize these bugs. This is only an example, but i hope you get my point
All discussion to a rom should be within the specific roms own thread.
i don't watch movies, buy stuff, listen to movies, etc because of their ratings given by others. so i pass on this
umhhh. i started a similar thread i had named ,'So who is the Master chef?'.it was harshly closed. never understood why.....
everyone loves his rom and his chef..can't really have an objective and representative rating system...
I know and undrstand where you are coming from...too many roms and one cannot choose...
with that said...if there WOULD BE a clear cut winning rom...then everybody would flash just that and the rest of the cook can retire...this way every cook has his "followers" and thus we have this large amount of roms and they all get updated and improved over time...
those like me and you that do not have the time...well then they cannot afford to flash too many roms...its that simple...if you are expecting someone to offer you a new best rom every day and then you just come home and flash it every night...well that service won't be happening...
and yes I believe we have 1000s of leechers and only a dozen cooks. xda developers is by far not just a developing community anymore...but then again we could be considered "beta testers".
I closed this thread, due to the same reason all the others that are similar all over xda are closed on sight.
These kind of threads usualy/always ends up in disputes and flamewars, there is always some hotheaded ppl who burst into flames when someone dont have the same view as they do.
So... sorry, yeah we close
Okay firstly this is what jaxouk wrote:
I have read many posts where people are asking which is the best rom for my device (and have done myself) only to get abrupt replies with something like "how dare you ask this, chefs put a lot of effort into each rom and its down to personal preferance blah blah" ................"THREAD CLOSED"
Does every one think think this is the best way for xda to be run or is there other people that think this should be allowed to be debated? I know this is originally a developer forum, however I would hazard a guess that there is now more public users that devolpers.
The thing is developers develope roms and yes certainly they put a lot of time and effort into it and are respected rightly so for it. however can the end user really be expected not to be allowed to discuss these roms on the forum only to be told the above mensioned things. It happens time and again over and over. People like myself (the end user) do not have time to flash every rom to find the ones they like. (its a days setting up for myself after a flash) and if its crap (which there is no denying. some are) its a day wasted.
What I think the forum needs is a "ROM USER REVIEW" section where people like myself can go and rate a rom for other users referance.
Surely this is the key to better roms. If one developers rom is poor hes going to be able to see that its poor and will/might take the user rating / comments on board and the next time try harder.... ultimately producing a better rom.
Competition is what makes better products, If handset manufacturers took the same stance as xda we would be waiting for the realease of the o2 xda 2s later this year. and this is the same in all industries.
Okay so firstly Spot on and totally agree with you which as we all can see the majority of members using XDA agree with too.
Secondly this is what itje wrote who is a Moderator here:
I closed this thread, due to the same reason all the others that are similar all over xda are closed on sight.
These kind of threads usualy/always ends up in disputes and flamewars, there is always some hotheaded ppl who burst into flames when someone dont have the same view as they do.
So... sorry, yeah we close
So basically what you are saying is we as members are not allowed to treat XDA as a discussion forum as well as a Developer Forum? I thought the whole meaning to the word Forum, was for people to discuss there DIFFERENT opinions and have certain disputes with one another.
Sorry if people dont agree with this and please tell me why but I just think its silly that a mod would close a thread incase someone shouts and god forbid have an opinion.
Let me know what you guys think
It´s realy funny, when new user come to this forum and try to tell the old, experienced user, how the forum should go. I sometimes need to laugh about those statements but there are times i only want cry
I´m 100% agree with the Moderators (cause they are Moderators ). If you spend some more time around here, you will see how this forum works. Just use it, don´t complain.
I wasnt telling anyone how to run THIS forum I was basically explaining to everyone how a forum is normally run, if this is the way everyone likes it then fine but looking through 100's of posts and topics around here all I see is members and "noobs" getting put down from the likes of you.
crazy cat said:
It´s realy funny, when new user come to this forum and try to tell the old, experienced user, how the forum should go. I sometimes need to laugh about those statements but there are times i only want cry
I´m 100% agree with the Moderators (cause they are Moderators ). If you spend some more time around here, you will see how this forum works. Just use it, don´t complain.
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me no understand
This has been explained again and again.
Personal and objective opinions are not allowed here. So if you can't make your own judgement on which ROM's to use you might want to stick to the stock ROM. Or The best thing to do is setup your own personal blog for these types of things. Then you can say what you want.
This will be another thread closed soon i feel.
It's impossible to determine what 'the best rom' would be...
Some ppl love a transparent clock, others hate it.
Same with the slider bar.
Same with themes.
Some ppl love a windows build with the start button on the top, some ppl love it with the button on the bottom.
Some ppl love to have a crapload of apps installed, some ppl hate it.
Some ppl love to have the newest unstable build, some ppl want the secure and stable one.
I might love a rom and you might hate it, the only objective criteria is how stable a rom is but even that can be debated. So you just have to try, see what works for you and go from there.
thread closed (i wish)
i have no problem myself with people arguing about something, even when things are heating. i am more then capable to defend myself
you know what they say - when the going gets tough, the though gets going
it is clear that general policy of this forum will not allow this kind of debate
what i am suggesting is something i saw on othe forums:
a special place with a big warnig ENTER ON YOUR OWN RISK, or something like that
this special place is organised as a battle place where every user can call out another user on a subject and then they have a public "battle". the other users are the public and in the end they choose which of the fighters is the winner
here the rules are somehow loose and mods only came in when things are realy degenerate - curses, personal insults, family offense, etc.
bottom line - i, personaly, would allow topics about best roms, best apps, best whatever, and when people cross the line i would suggest them to cool down on the battle field
this can be a stupid ideea, but maybe something like that will help users to get off the presure somewhere and then to disscuss cool and polite the subjects they are interested in
regards
noris08 said:
i have no problem myself with people arguing about something, even when things are heating. i am more then capable to defend myself
you know what they say - when the going gets tough, the though gets going
it is clear that general policy of this forum will not allow this kind of debate
what i am suggesting is something i saw on othe forums:
a special place with a big warnig ENTER ON YOUR OWN RISK, or something like that
this special place is organised as a battle place where every user can call out another user on a subject and then they have a public "battle". the other users are the public and in the end they choose which of the fighters is the winner
here the rules are somehow loose and mods only came in when things are realy degenerate - curses, personal insults, family offense, etc.
bottom line - i, personaly, would allow topics about best roms, best apps, best whatever, and when people cross the line i would suggest them to cool down on the battle field
this can be a stupid ideea, but maybe something like that will help users to get off the presure somewhere and then to disscuss cool and polite the subjects they are interested in
regards
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Another problem with this kind of thing is you will have people come to this thread and ***** and complain about a particular ROM instead of the original ROM thread. The truth be known many of the problems users face are due to them not following instruction or due to some other incompatible software there are trying to use and then they blame their problems on the ROM creator. The down side to this is a thread like this will only open up negative criticism of a ROM and cause harm to the cook that maybe unjust. Not to mention that the problems need to be kept within the ROM threads in order to better improve the ROM's.
I understand what people want and this is why I made the statement to open your own blog or site to do these things and then link to here.
i have to agree. cooker cooks a rom and we rate it. if it was just "cook, post, upload, thread closed" in res of the world then everyone would buy apple, but cause its the information age we need to know what is what and where is where.
this should be even more seen here on "professional" forum like xda-developers.
i totaly agree with OP.
@bazgee: saying that 'noobs' shouldnt talk.. makes you so much more a 'noob'. your ass wasn't born smart and so wasn't OPs.
bobsbbq said:
Another problem with this kind of thing is you will have people come to this thread and ***** and complain about a particular ROM instead of the original ROM thread.
....
The down side to this is a thread like this will only open up negative criticism of a ROM and cause harm to the cook that maybe unjust. Not to mention that the problems need to be kept within the ROM threads in order to better improve the ROM's.
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This is what forums are for!! To ASK, and to ANSWER!!
Edit; I'm not going to say something, post removed.
Really, is it *that* hard to understand there is *no* best ROM? They are all different!
It's apples vs oranges. It can't be compared. If your imagination needs a bit of help, look up consoles vs PCs, or PS3 vs x360 threads. Have you ever seen one not turn into a massive flamefest? ... exactly!
If you want to make sure a ROM working, check the last 2-3 pages of ROMs thread to see if there are people complaining.
Developers Forum?
The notion that this is a developers forum is a myth anyway. The end users play a massive role in here, determining bugs, requesting new features or feature removal and indeed critiquing the ROM within its own thread.
The idea that WW3 will break out if we allow dedicated discussion threads seems a bit weak to me. I've seen heated discussions in ROM threads and they never became more than that.
I'm sure it is more to do with protecting the ROM developers so that the ones who's ROMs may be bottom of the pile don't walk away, which is fair enough.
But from some people there is an all around lack of respect on this forum for the general user who do that deepest broadest testing, offer wirespread feedback and go a long way to making the ROM's what they are today.
And do not forget - if these folks weren't here to download the ROM's, how many chefs do you think would be here to cook them! Both sides need each other. I don't doubt the chefs get a kick from giving people what they want.
The moderators don't 'need' to do anything (We will all be here anyway) but if they have some respect then they should take on board and accomodate what appears to be the opinion of a vast number of users.
I'm sure there is some middle ground somewhere if we try and look ....
Really, is it *that* hard to understand there is *no* best ROM? They are all different!
That is not the case. There are roms that are the fastest, Roms that are the smoothest, Roms that have the best landscape support, Roms with the best apps to suit needs amongst others. Certainly if you try and make one overall top ten then it is going to be a lucky dip, but nobody suggested that.
It's apples vs oranges. It can't be compared. If your imagination needs a bit of help, look up consoles vs PCs, or PS3 vs x360 threads. Have you ever seen one not turn into a massive flamefest? ... exactly!
I'm not sure consolve vs PC is quite the same a comparing different ROMs as they have the same hardware, similar architecture, purpose etc Your also getting a little needlesly condescending now ;-)
If you want to make sure a ROM working, check the last 2-3 pages of ROMs thread to see if there are people complaining.
This is good advice for bug testing but does not offer any more constructive information on the whole.
mwillems2 said:
Really, is it *that* hard to understand there is *no* best ROM? They are all different!
That is not the case. There are roms that are the fastest, Roms that are the smoothest, Roms that have the best landscape support, Roms with the best apps to suit needs amongst others. Certainly if you try and make one overall top ten then it is going to be a lucky dip, but nobody suggested that.
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How exactly they are not different then? There is no two exactly same ROMs, with exactly same aims and objectives of a cook over here. Reading ROM description tells you exactly what the rom does and what the cook aims to achieve.
As an example; some ROMs have custom themes, some roms use MaxManilla, some use stock, some use something completely different. You can't quantify what's better. It's personal preference.
You can't possibly quantify 'best apps to suit needs' as everyone has different needs. As I said apples vs oranges.
If you want to make sure a ROM working, check the last 2-3 pages of ROMs thread to see if there are people complaining.
This is good advice for bug testing but does not offer any more constructive information on the whole.
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Again, I'm trying to understand what are you on about, but I can't. What is constructive information according to you?
You have ROM description on the first page, you can check the last few if there are any issues with it. What else do you want?
[/QUOTE]
i agree what bobsbbq said ,is not fair to say that this rom is good and this rom is better but if you try the other rom is far more better,is dissrespectul from the chefs trying to help you guys having best rom's avialible and to open another thread to say things like that is bad,so for me i choose my own judgement and would not ask others wich rom is best,so this thread is closed
mwillems2 said:
The notion that this is a developers forum is a myth anyway.
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You're saying this like it is somehow an acceptable, or possibly even a good thing. It is not.
It's true that this forum is now visited by people who:
cannot be bothered to read the first post of any thread
have no intention of educating themselves, only blindly consuming
will shamelessly ***** and make demands about things they are getting for free
These people do not make the community "better" in any way, and this kind of behaviour should not be tolerated in my view.
mwillems2 said:
The idea that WW3 will break out if we allow dedicated discussion threads seems a bit weak to me. I've seen heated discussions in ROM threads and they never became more than that.
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Heated discussions in themselves do not need to escalate any further. They are already a waste of everybody's time, and have no place here.
mwillems2 said:
But from some people there is an all around lack of respect on this forum for the general user who do that deepest broadest testing, offer wirespread feedback and go a long way to making the ROM's what they are today.
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I'm relatively sure the user who is seriously interested in testing and reporting is not in need of a completely seperate thread to voice their opinion on which ROM is somehow "best". For testers it's not constructive to voice opinions about a ROM in any other thread than the original ROM thread.
mwillems2 said:
And do not forget - if these folks weren't here to download the ROM's, how many chefs do you think would be here to cook them! Both sides need each other. I don't doubt the chefs get a kick from giving people what they want.
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Not so sure about that. I've seen plenty of chefs say that they basically cook for themselves, and just like to share. Even if they are cooking for the community, they do not need people to praise or diss their ROM's in any other thread than their own.
Overall, I feel the biggest problem with having a centralized ROM discussion thread is the intented audience: people who cannot be bothered to test and compare by themselves, people who cannot be bothered to read individual ROM threads.
What would be the point in creating a new thread for these people? Once it gets beyond 1 page, they will not bothered to read it anyway.
for me personally these "top 20s" don't have any value whatsoever but i understand why so many people want them. some of them are just lazy and want to avoid to read the threads, others are not able to think for themselves and need to be told what is good or bad for them and there are those who want to become famous reviewers.
for cryin' out loud, don't fix what is not broken! this forum is perfect as it is. moderators, don't let the comorades tell you what to do!
Volw said:
How exactly they are not different then? There is no two exactly same ROMs, with exactly same aims and objectives of a cook over here. Reading ROM description tells you exactly what the rom does and what the cook aims to achieve.
As an example; some ROMs have custom themes, some roms use MaxManilla, some use stock, some use something completely different. You can't quantify what's better. It's personal preference.
You can't possibly quantify 'best apps to suit needs' as everyone has different needs. As I said apples vs oranges.
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I think is better we not make comparative, believe it is better for all!!
but if you say it is impossible to compare among themselves the Rom, you're wrong!
lol reopened.
anyway i belive this huld be discussed. we are here three levels of people. so this will need for 1st level, and 2nd level will be trying the roms and giving feed backs. so 3rd level always will be cooking and editing roms. just my opinion.
lets start the work.. i go for duttys HG V.08
Lmao I'm loving and had to contribute to what I can only describe as "better than jeremy kyle" show that's going on over in the dev section.
My views are like many and as for being all for new development on wildfire I just can't comprehend why this mockery has been allowed to go on for so long? I'm urging moderators to act on this matter of continuous so called "new fast and stable roms" that havnt even been tested!! That suddenly are discontinued and replaced by yet another.
It really does take alot to rile me up the wrong way but this has got to be sorted PLEASE.
this is my opinion which I have the right to air and really don't wish to offend any individuals, I respect my own and everyone's rights but surely this point must be addressed.
Kindest regards,slymobi.
sent from my emmaroid infected wilderbeast
LOL....... Not many people will know what you mean by the jezza comment but i certainly do!!
The thing that really ticks me off is the fact that all these roms are popping up and where is the credit for the real developer, you know the guy who has actually sat in front of a computer for hours on end staring at code over and over and over again to actually bring them a base to dissect and add a few apps (incorrectly too if i might add as most of the time they fc constantly) and finally slap there name on it to hopefully make them famous xda developers!!
Well no-one can pull the wool over my eyes that easily and i'll be sticking with the true dev's, the ones who can actually read a logcat and make sense of it all and also fix problems instead of just deleting the problem and starting again!!
:End Rant:
True developers !?
I agree with both of you as there have been so many "stable" ROMS that never got tested... And they pop up every 5 seconds lately.
Can it be due to the fact that most of the "true developers" (your definition) moved to other/new phones ? Hence we have new developers (or wannabe's) at the early stages of their careers So they will learn and eventually earn the title "true developer". Maybe we should not act so harsh and scare them off !!! We do need some developers to breath in some new life into these old phones of ours.
I am not a developer myself... But I have couple of things to say about you guys' definition of "true developers".... My question is where do you really draw the line? So a true developer should be able to built from source according to your definition. Well they need the source for that... And its coded by someone else... So all they are doing in effect is compiling someone elses code. Maybe they are not the "true developers" either???
All I am trying to say is, cool off a bit, let the new developers/wannabe's mature. As I am sure they are quite young.
And a note to the new developers: Be patient and work first and then gloat. Do not call every release "stable". You know we have words like "alpha", "beta" etc...
p.s. And what happened to the term ROM Cook? We do have the kitchen.. If that makes people happy, maybe we should call them COOKS. After all, not everybody is a good cook ...
You have some good valid points but I think your not totally understanding our concerns.
Nobody is against new developers or up and coming ones either. Its the manner in which they conduct themselves and there project. A simple example is...... lets say I take your post and edit it and change what you've said a little bit then stop half way thro
sent from my emmaroid infected wilderbeast
Ugh then change the name etc etc cos I got bored or encountered some errors!! Would this mean that the original post does not deserve any credit. Now if you read your quoted post in my post youll see ive edited a few things just for an example my friend ( now removed after point being made and recognized) and is in no way intended to offend you. I have personally had pm conversation with one of the newbies and respect that he is new and learning and offered him some simple advice which he was thankful for I think. I'm no dev either and have no ambition to become one lol I'm to lazy but I would go about things differently to most of the so called new devs. Regards slymobi.
sent from my emmaroid infected wilderbeast
"thesherrif " now that I like... Some changes are good I guess.
I understand your concerns very well... But it is what it is when it comes to young people. Especially this generation They get bored quiet fast and move onto a new ROM/new thread. Eventually, they will mature up. Winzipping won't be enough for them, and they start to dig deep into their ROMs and start doing some "true developing" with patience to stick with what they've started.
Unfortunately for us, they will live through their early stages of developing with us, and when they become competent developers they will move to other phones That is the price of owning an old (and cheap enough for kids to buy) phone like wildfire.
Arrggghhh I should get a new phone. I really need to...
Lol nice end. I agree. I used to love testing out new roms but slowly found that the next was too similar to the previous,I just think maybe there should be some kind of testing review period by experienced members before new roms are openly posted. Or like another very respected member has stated, split the dev section into new and original!! I have not named said member due to my respect for him. Regards slymobi.
P.s I'm gonna have to go some work my boss is getting pissed at me lol. Bye bye.
sent from my emmaroid infected wilderbeast
Hehe
I find it incredibly funny to download one of those roms and see my name & build box in the compile strings
One of them even changed the developer ID (as used by Rom Manager)... f'k knows why, you need more that just a line in a file to get it on there
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
And the one that's apparently "final"... I wonder if there will be a "final v2" if I ever get this bloody camcorder fixed
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