Related
I saw a lot of programs developed for XDA II, and they are for XDA II only. So it must be a SDK documents somewhere, otherwise no-one can write codes specific for XDA II, Am i correct?
If so, could anyone tell me where can I get the XDA II's SDK?
Thanks in advance
SDK is the PocketPC2003 SDK available free from Microsoft.
It really needs embedded Visual C++ 4, also available free from Microsoft.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/default.mspx
They'll also send you all the tools on DVD for a small handling fee, as they are huge downloads.
andyclap said:
SDK is the PocketPC2003 SDK available free from Microsoft.
It really needs embedded Visual C++ 4, also available free from Microsoft.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/default.mspx
They'll also send you all the tools on DVD for a small handling fee, as they are huge downloads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.
I have the generic SDK from MS, what I need is the SDK for XDA II, it should come from XDA II's manufacture.
Thanks
well there are not xda2 stk
but there are a collection of stk's
one of them is ms's
another is the one which the cam program uses
another is the stk of the ati 2d chip
i think ati will give you their sdk if you reg at their site or something
dont think the cam's sdk is something they would let people get their hands on
a xda2 sdk would be like having a dell Latitude sdk
it dont work like that
Rudegar said:
well there are not xda2 stk
but there are a collection of stk's
one of them is ms's
another is the one which the cam program uses
another is the stk of the ati 2d chip
i think ati will give you their sdk if you reg at their site or something
dont think the cam's sdk is something they would let people get their hands on
a xda2 sdk would be like having a dell Latitude sdk
it dont work like that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, where is the website for ATI? could you post a link please?
BTW, what I need to do is to develop GSM related applications specific for XDA II, say, timed SMS sending. It is best if I can plug my apps into their build-in apps like SMS (it does not have timed SMS sending options)
Aha you're after the device SDK for the XDAII. You want to know what drivers are supplied and how to use them to control the specific hardware at the lowest level, e.g. ATI graphics, Radio hardware, Camera, Bluetooth, Buttons, comms, etc.
... unfortuantely HTC are an absolutely closed shop. Getting any information out of them is like getting blood out of a stone. A particularly hard and bloodless stone.
This site is really the closest thing we have, although as mentioned above you might have some luck with the specific hardware manufacturers such as ATI (although they are also notoriously unforthcoming). There's also sourceO2, who have similar level of knowledge about supporting low level development on the XDAII as a particularly stupid earthworm.
Usual rant follows... If only the device manufacturers would properly open up their products to developers, they'd see a wealth of applications developed that'd make their hardware a real "must have". They probably think it'd eat into their profits on the next device they produce, which is all they're interested in really.
Incidentally, you can both send SMSs, and use the notification subsystem to schedule an app to run at a particular time via the PPC2003 API. So it'd be fairly simple to knock up a client-side SMS timed sending application wihtout hacking RIL.
Hi, andyclap
Thanks a lot for your informative reply.
I am not actually developing very low level applications. What I planned to do is to develop some value added little programs that could be a plug-in or such a kind.
To make myself clear, I can use an example to explain what I might want to do:
The build-in SMS program does not have the feature the let you send a timed (scheduled) SMS. I am wishing to do is:
insert a menu item into its original context menu (tap-and-hold on SMS message body), you can choose to send at specific time
Anyone have an idea?
build in sms programs are not something which would make it a special xda program
all pocketpcs would be able to use that
that is unless you want to block your application somehow from being used on other pocketpc's then the xda then i suppose you need to access some reg indentifier or something
you want me to give your the link to ati ?
well if you are too lazy to type it then i suppose I must
http://www.ati.com/products/handheld.html
Hmm this may be quite hard to do, as I the messaging system is quite unextensible. It's fine if you want to create a new format from scratch, but extending an existing form handler is, I think, impossible.
Some low level dirty tricks (subclassing windows etc) might work, but would be pretty tricky to do, and very hacky.
I just wish somebody would give the PocketPC team a Symbian SDK, Symbian really got it right when it comes to messaging.
Yes, i can write a new SMS program, but it will need me to deal with Contacts object. I mean, I have to write code for fetching data stored in the build-in contacts database. If I can just plug my function into its contextmenu, I will only need to implement a simple function program (setting date/time, save phone number and message text, create a notification, etc).
Using SetWindowLong can hook into the *****, but this program model is some kind of fragile, very easy to crush the system or the apps itslef, not really stable if not tested thoroughly
Is there anyone who has done this, kind of like recording the phonecall... Though my query is slightly more advanced, I would like to see a Crypto program creating secure phonecalls using WM5...
So we would need to capture the datastream incoming(to decrypt) and outgoing to crypt, this creating a nice safe way to talk to your...friends... Anyone else up for this project?
Or any feedback on the concept?
...and...
i dont think its only me intrested in this so ill send this source code aswell from a company that works from a PC via isdn... This company sells cellphones with encryption...
http://www.cryptophone.de/support/downloads/downloads.html
Dont know if this could help in the initial stage?
Ps.
A similar software does exist (180 dollars per phone + all your details are sent to australian gov) www.securegsm.com
Anyone up for the task?
Re: ...and...
it is impossible to intercept the audio data coming through PPC unless your hardware is specially designed for it and it provides you a specialized API for doing that. All crypting software encrypts calls via doing CSD calls and senging data. There is another program - www.cryptophone.de
this looks like a HTC anyway...
http://www.cryptophone.de/products/CP220/index.html
???
Then how can secureGSM do it in a software made for any WM5?
So theoretically i dont think there is a problem there....
SecureGSM is an end to end app, which I suppose all such apps would have to be.
As such, it almost certainly doesn't need to pick up the phone/modem audio path (which as Mamaich says, seems to be impossible without a particular hardware implementation), but just use the normal microphone and loudspeaker recording/playback functions.
V
AddeBC,
Vijay is right. SecureGSM is working on the same principal as criptophone.
Establish a modem connection between two devices running the same software run a negociation with the network (v.110 is much faster then v.32) start a data connection with the other dude...the stream that the mic receives is encrypted and sent over to the other party there the software decrypts the stream and plays it troughout the speaker.
There were quite a few threads regarding csd connections between phones so could start from there.
The only thing that you're going to miss in this deal is the logistic for selling the software + phone.
Cheers,
Raul
I often thought of adding this as a feature of GSMbeam but I just can't think when I would ever really need it. It would be cool to communicate without the possibility of Big Brother knowing what is said, but what would you say?
To sell this kind of software may also bring you in contact with undesirable groups, criminals or terrorists are propably in need of good voice call encryption.
To do this it will have to have a reletively low quality of sound because of the poor data rate on voice calls. How would one go about encoding the sound to data? Are there any off the shelf open ended codecs for this purpose or would the work need to be done from scratch?
OdeeanRDeathshead said:
......To sell this kind of software may also bring you in contact with undesirable groups, criminals or terrorists are propably in need of good voice call encryption....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as per SecureGSM FAQ:
http://www.securegsm.com/pages.php?pageid=16#4
Is your software designed to support criminals and terrorists?
Absolutely not! We do not condone any such activities, and take extreme care to ensure that our products are used to prevent, rather than encourage criminal or terrorist behavior.
AddeBC
AddeBC said:
A similar software does exist (180 dollars per phone + all your details are sent to australian gov)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
End User Details are being collected as part of identity verification procedure.
First name, Second Name, living address, phone number and contact email address. I suppose, this is standard practice. We do not support criminals and terrorists and would not sell if in doubt.. At the same time our software does just what is says to do: encrypts phone conversation end to end to the military standards and beyond.
It is buyer's resposibility to provide correct information on the order form.
see this page for details:
http://www.securegsm.com/pages.php?pageid=26
Also, I suppose providing end user information to the Australian Government does not automaticaly lead to the conclusion that SecureGSM is flawed or insecure, has master key, back door or leaving any other way to interfere with contents of SecureGSM encrypted conversation. And no! Big Brother does not know what is said..
Any way, if terrorists or any of the countries listed there want call encryption they would not trust their lives to someone elses software. I am sure they are smart enough to write their own.
As for the laws governing the sale, that just makes me mad. I do not trust John Howard, I think I should have the right to a private conversation without registering it with him. I guess that is the beauty of computers. Computers make the world go round and its the size of your brain that gets results not politics.
Well, for a less.. 'big brother-ish' scenario, I would, personally like to have my line phone to be encrypted, as it is way much easier to have someone bugging your phone line.
However, for a cell/mobile phone, it is relatively difficult for amateur people to bug it, right? What are the chances that someone around you that is interested on your conversations, is capable of intercepting your mobile/cell phone calls.
Raseac Secure Phone - for WM 2003 and WM 2003 SE
This looks worthwhile! Downloads are available from the website for testing.
[Also, as a side note, I have been in touch with Phil Zimmermann, the creator of PGP, and lately of Zfone (crypto SIP phone for XP/Linux/Mac), and he says he realizes the importance of the Pocket PC platform and is considering ways of implementing Zfone for Pocket PC.]
Code:
http://www.raseac.com.br/
Encryption system for end-to-end secure voice communication. It was developed to be used in palmtop computers running Microsoft PocketPC 2003 e 2003SE (Intel).
When installed in a palmtop connected via modem to a telephony system (fixed or mobile), it allows your company and your business a secure means of communication anywhere around the world.
Since Raseac encryption technology was developed for high capacity processors, it allowed for the implementation of state of the art security, featuring:
* Exceptional sound quality;
* 256-bit encryption key;
* Encryption technology based on the Rijndael block cipher (AES);
* CBC, Random IV, Time Stamp, Integrity check by MAC/SHA-256;
* 100% protected against "man in the middle attack";
* No backdoor.
Need for secure phone line; the brazilian site and others
Well, I'd say that common people don't have much to worry about being tapped... Usually, nothing that sensitive is talken EVER over line.
Things begin to change when you are involved with something sensitive, be that legal or not. Most of the guies who work with corps, above management level may have some need from time to time, to be contacted that way by a superior. From director and up, depending on what kind of business the company is into, it IS a must!
People who work with security, government and other agencies may need it. As already said, people who work with barely legal to blatantly criminal stuff are always in need of such trappings. I think terrorists end-up on that class.
Equipment, hard and soft is always expensive and cost prohibitive for most of us.
Paranoid, techno-junkies and just curious people may want it, just to have.
Since I fit two or three of the said categories, I would like to put a program like that on my cell phone...
Just for the sake of having it there!
(mind you! Curious, telecom and management+ position...)
That said, a basic voice scramble-de-scramble program is OK for me!!!
(the more open-source, the better!)
About the brazilian company, they changed the site's name to secvoice. I tried to have a look-see on their specs but they ignored my e-mail and so I've done with it.
For all of you who were searching for a decent VoIP Softphone that supports multiple SIP accounts, is not in beta since 2 years ago. doesn't bring your PPC down to a crawl or is nearly unusable, search no longer: We have released our AGEphone Mobile 2 just today and it blows away every competitor from Xlite over SJphone to Skype. Big words? You bet! But why don't you just test it yourself? Just point your browser to http://www.ageet.com/files/AGEphoneMobile2.CAB OR point your cellphone at http://mobileage.notlong.com and install the softphone on your Windows Mobile 5 or 6 device. You can try it as long as you want without any limits but a duration of one minute for each call.
"And, who the heck are you?" I hear you ask. We, that is the ageet Corporation in beautiful (and far) Japan and we simply couldn't stand watching the Windows Mobile VoIP market dragging along... with an SJphone version right out of the stoneage, the wannabe softphone Fring with its horrible interface ans support for but one SIP provider and not to forget Skype which single handedly brings your PPC to the knees should you only think about calling someone. AGEphone does things differently and it does things BETTER (see our press release under http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=372992) and we hope that it will be of good service to many people. And that is where you come into play:
... cause our AGEphone has been in programming for quite a while already, but we know well enough that we are just not there yet. We're selling our software and that is why you can expect only the best. So, why not give the current version a go and let me know what you like and (more importantly) dislike about it. Right now we're working on bluetooth support and chat functions are planned for the future. But I know that there must be many more features that you would like to see in in our program and we don't even have a clue about it... until now. A little post might just be enough to let us know!
And we won't just leave you with the good feeling of having helped out to improve the best VoIP client on the Windows Mobile platform - that's just not enough. And so we put out two free licenses for board members who provide us with the best suggestions (and many ), bug reports and new ideas. And if you are really convinced that AGEphone Mobile is the way to go VoIP and if then you happen to sit in the right seat: We pay well for relayed 3rd party orders and redistribution. So just let us hear from you and the least you get is that we work hard to create a better softphone for you. Whether it will be more depends just on YOU!
Will be nice if you had a proper English web site. Clicking on the English still keeps you at the Jap language. Why come and post here when you cant even get a proper web site with English on??
I'm very sorry for that. The new page is still pretty new and there are some quirks that need to be sorted out. The problem should be fixed by now, but if it persists please PM me your OS and browser version and we will look further into it. Apart from that, rest assured that we can serve you in fluent English, German and Japanese if you give our products a try.
Still doesnt work. Im using Firefox 3.0 Beta. Also tried it in IE, still no dice.
Atleast give a direct link to the English site or have a splash page to choose a language instead of taking it fully to Japanese.
Languge option works for me, OK it's a USA flag to click and not a Union Jack, but i still see a site in English.
Wierd, I dont know what you are clicking on but the US flag has a link to http://www.ageet.com/us/ and if you click on that it reverts back to Japanese in both IE and FF for me.
I'm sorry, raaj, but unfortunately I have not been able to reproduce your problem using FF 2, IE 6 and 7, Opera and Safari (minor template quirks) from work and home. I haven't tested Firefox 3 and Internet Explorer 8 though as we simply can't support any beta versions. Please have a look at
http://www.ageet.com/us/products-agephone-mobile.htm
for some information about our softphone and go to
http://www.ageet.com/us/download.htm
to download either of our products in a free trial version. Please also clear your browser cache and cookies if you haven't done so already. I hope that this works for you, but if not: The /us/ always turns any page into English if a translation is available. Please let me know if anybody else is having trouble with changing the languages on the page.
AgePhone Mobile
This is the best voip sw I have tried for Windows Mobile.
I have tried:
iFon
SJPhone
Xlite
internal WM6 using Schap settings
Fring
Skype
plus others I forgot.
It displays well on my HTC Advantage with RealVGA at 128dpi, call quality is good, integrates with contacts, works well with my BT headset and is generally slick. Highly recomended, and I don't work for them...
james
And a little intro video for your viewing pleasure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=micq_ghALGk
Prize question: How to integrate videos directly into posts here?
Falk said:
And a little intro video for your viewing pleasure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=micq_ghALGk
Prize question: How to integrate videos directly into posts here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trick Question, you cant
Is there anyway to choose the codec used, or is it done automatically? I'm running it on a 200MHz phone, and the audio quality was a bit choppy. I checked the server log and it shows capability for g.711u only, but I see on the website that gsm is also available.
Thanks.
bluetooth head does not work on my orbit 2, and the voice comes out of the back speaker as with all the other voip software.
is there something i have done wrong.
@ayking: The codec gets selected automatically and on mobile devices we usually force GSM. You can override the settings in the INI files. Just go to "My Documents / My Phone Booth" and take a look at the sipd.conf. You can find the codec settings under the "General" section as
MediaTypes = 3 0 8 101
where
0 = G.711u
3 = GSM
8 = G.711a
101 = DTMF setting (ignore)
Sometimes this might come out as
MediaTypes = 0 3 8 101
in which case you should change it to the first version that prefers GSM. In general, please try to raise the the jitter buffer in the programs audio settings to 240ms and see if that improves things. If it doesn't help you can also experiment with "OutBufferCnt = 3" in the INI under "Audio". I hope this fixes the choppiness.
@itolson: No, you haven't done anything wrong and neither is it our fault. Most HTC devices simply don't support routing the audio to the earphone speaker and thus you always end up hearing it through the external one. We are keeping an eye on any developments that have been able to fix this for some Japanese WM devices already. That is because contrary to the HTC guys who don't even bother answering our mails Sharp has been a bit less secretive and told us the DeviceIoControl ID of their device so that we could fix the speaker settings.
As for Bluetooth, there is no support for it in the current version of AGEphone and thus you can only use your headset if you use a little hack. Search the forums for "BTAudioToggle.exe" and start it before you make a call with AGEphone. It enables all audio to be routed through the BT headset and also allows you to use the headset microphone. You can automate this process with AGEphone under "Settings - Other" where you can enter "BTAudioToggle.exe" to get started when a call connects and to get disconnected when your call ends. I hope this is of any help until we add official support.
has the software been tested with a connection over gprs / 3g / hdspa or only with wifi?
Is there support for going through the operator proxy ? (there are operators with unlimited 3g plans that only work using the operators proxy)
@trv: We have tested our AGEphone with WiFi, 3G, HSDPA and PHS (EDGE equivalent) and it worked fine on all of them. PHS / EDGE can be a bit borderline though and we didn't include it in our requirements for that reason. It's more than worth a try though.
As for the proxy support, it depends solely on your provider: If they decided to use their proxy to block VoIP traffic you can make AGEphone work only over a VPN or otherwise encrypted connection. Please feel free to try our test version with your provider to see if it works.
Agephone codecs
Falk,
You say you force GSM codec, I see that is that one selected on my implementation. Forgive newby questions, but by GSM do you mean AMR, or AMR-WB with a 16kHz sample? G.711 is an extremely simple algorithm from (1972?) so is not very bandwidth efficient. I'm wondering if there is a route to the high quality sound I get with my laptop/WiFi Voip implementation with my pda over HSDPA using some of the newer bandwidth efficent packet loss tolerant codecs like iLBC, G.729, G.722.2 etc, which I see you have on your desktop version? Is the limit processing complexity in the pda? I know my service provider voiptalk supports iLBC, G.729 and G.722. I know there are license issues with G.729, but not iLBC.
Surely the latest devices (mine has a 624MHz X-Scale, 256M Rom and 128M RAM) could run the advanced codecs? I understand Skype uses their own special sauce, but based on iLBC.
I would really appreciate your expert input here.
Sorry to dive in to all this, but xda-developers is a 'pushing the boundry' type forum!
James
WOW, not to sure about all this, set up servers, limited to 1 minute, have to buy the software. Want to use it for free, then you have to go out and sell the software yourself? Whats next, make money selling the software by having your own sales team? I see another "Work from home" pyramid scheme coming on here, just my skeptical point of view here. I think I'll stick with skype for now, especially since i can answer the call from my home phone, computer, or pda phone since any of these can be logged on at the same time.
@iscajames: Don't be sorry - that's what the thread is there for and I hope that I can answer all your questions! So let's get started: When I wrote GSM I did indeed mean AMR 8 KHz. Right now we limit our AGEphone to ARM and G.711 for simplicities sake and to keep the SIP stack small and efficient. You are right again when you suspect that some of the other codecs put a lot of stress on mobile CPUs, but that is not the main reason.
Codecs like AMR-WB and G.729A cost a lot of initial and licensing fees and so far we simply could not integrate them because of that. We are, however working on a solution to that right now and you might see some additional codecs in our product in the future. iLBC would be possible even now and the only reason so far was that it would add some size and hasn't been requested much by our customers.
I will talk it with our programmers again and see if we can find a good solution for this. I think that iLBC might be a good addition for now - be it for some providers that support it or people using AGEphone in P2P mode.
@NiteStalker: Let me explain a bit to clear up the whole thing for you: First off, this is no pyramid scheme or get "rich with software" scheme. We just thought that it might be a nice idea to reward the people that are helping us to bring our AGEphone a bit further. It's not more than those two licenses that I spoke about in the first post.
And if you use a SIP-softphone then of course you have to register with a SIP-server in order to place your calls. You are also registering with the Skype network anytime you log on. The only difference is that YOU chose the server and by that get much cheaper prices than Skype could ever offer.
They give their software away for free because they hope to hook you up with their service. ageet doesn't offer any phone service. Just see us as a vendor whom you buy your phone from. Without a provider it's nearly worthless as you can just use it in peer to peer mode.
If Skype does what you want to do and does so for a good price then there is no need to use our software. For many people though being locked down to just one network, having to put up with a crappy PPC version, financing Ebay's wish to make some money out of their billion dollar buy ain't all that great and for those AGEphone Mobile might be worth a try
We're wonder what is people thinking about their G1 device... Please vote and write down your feeling on this new phone.
G1
What does work on this phone works very well. I feel though that this phone is more for developers and hobbyist. It's not quiet ready for guys like me that have very few skills. I hope the software situation gets worked out soon or this phone will end up with no real support just like the Iphone.
i agree, some great potential with this phone, enough to make it a class leader. we just need to see some of the most reported problems ironed out first. great os and hardware on the whole.
what are "mosy reported floors"
I LOVE this phone. Of course it has its problems(lack of camera options, lack of really interesting apps(though there were a hell of a lot of interesting ones added today...), cut and paste is a bit of a pain sometimes but they are all in the software and definitely will be fixed once the device is a little more mature. Considering this is a version 1.0 device and just came out a little over a month ago it's freaking amazing. Heck I've even had iphone users gawk at some of the things it can do like street view compass mode.
Love it!!
I've had (over the past 2 years) the mda, moto q, mogul, instinct, diamond and now the G1.
Windows mobile (mda/q/mogul/diamond), although very convenient, can and will give you a headache and a large pain in the @$$. Screens are usually too cluttered. Such a small screen size with so much stuff. Lag lag lagggggggg. Pocket Internet Explorer is only there for show and orb. Other than that I would recommend opera, netbrowser or skyfire. Functionality is the best feature winmo has. I had full access to my home computer (as long as it was connected to the internet). They are essentially what they are called, PPC's (Pocket PC's).
Instinct... should be set on fire along with all the people who created that POS. Make sure it is a slow roasting fire too. Very very poor smartphone. Good at making/receiving calls though.
The G1 can and will do everying the winmo phones do (minus the head ache... hopefully). All we need to be is patient or pitch in by learning programming.
i rated it very poor, i am very disappointed with the phone and google should be ashamed of themselves. the g1 can't do 1/10th of the things my wing did and my wing was a dog. android is worse than win ce when i first tried it on '03. thanks g1 for ruining my year. xda-devs, please get winmo on this asap.
Till now only 47 peoples vote... gogogo!
Till now only 47 peoples... gogogo! Tell people how do you think on G1~
We hope TMO can see this thread and improve it on next model if possible.
Good and Bad
I rated the phone as Neutral:
Things I like:
- GPS, Wireless are great
- Some cool apps
- Smooth Feel to the screen and it isn't jerky
- Contact List (very flexible for my needs)
- real tactile keyboard
- Maps
- ShopSavvy
Things I don't like:
- Small screen
- No auto-rotate (I know it works with chrooted systems)
- keyboard missing CTRL, PgUp/Down, Arrows (for shell commands)
- Internal Storage space is limited
- Lack of ability to store to SD Card
- The cumbersome headset included (why on earth keep the mic
- Not a true Open Source (I want root access)
Things that would make this phone rock:
- optional on-screen keyboard for simple input (ease up on the wear and tear of constantly having to flip to keyboard)
- piston operated hinges (i.e. slow the shock of closing/opening the keyboard)..opens fast but slows down right before it slams open/shut
- option for normal earpiece input (vice USB headset)
So I'm really mixed. I think a huge win (for me) is the ability to store on SD card (I run out of space all the time now) and having root access. That would put my satisfaction in the upper 90's. I'm sure I'm missing other pros/cons but that's a start for me.
I bought it recently, and am satisfied with it. The screen is very bright and responsive, the browser is very good and I can install my own apps on it without hassle <3
My first one had a squeaky sound to it so I got it exchanged. I have the white one, so it can be hard to see the buttons and some of the apps feel incomplete. Thankfully, I can download the source and mod them to my liking
RouterGuru said:
I rated the phone as Neutral:
Things that would make this phone rock:
- optional on-screen keyboard for simple input (ease up on the wear and tear of constantly having to flip to keyboard)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aye, that annoys me as well, but the input API is is listed on the roadmap for Q1 09, so not too long now (hopefully).
Auto Rotate...?
Just curious if anyone concern about to disable " Auto Rotate " function once keyboard slide out.
Personally, I don't like it at all since sometime, I wish to browse the webpage on horziontal mode but only way is slide out the keyboard!
It is a $%^&*, why they just don't leave a function for user ON/OFF auto rotate ???
I give the phone itself a "very disappointed", the software "very good".
While much if the phone's problems are likely software, the squeaking and overall build quality are sub-par IMO. The battery life is horrid and, while software can fix some of it, the battery is rated very low, which begs me to ask why they spec'd such a tiny battery for a phone with these features.
The point is, I guess, that the phone itself has problems that cant be fixed with a update. The software, while lacking many simple things, at least can and will be eventually fixed.
For me the G1 is a very good start. The default packages and layouts need to be redone. For example. The contacts options don't offer enough input. Like... Birthdays, Anniversaries As well as maybe having IM support for the various default messengers on the g1 ie gtalk, aim etc.
Another Huge let down is the default SMS/MMS package where it does not allow you to forward and the standard options we have become accustomed to using devices such as WM6....
The picture viewer is the worst i have ever seen in my life. Currently I have over 5500 pictures on my SD card and the default viewer does not allow me to view by Directory or simply go into the folder and view that folder, instead it tries to Cache all 5500 pictures and well 35 mins + trying to cache all of them i close it. Also with so many pictures and thousands of names of files there is no option to View a picture and MMS it directly to a contact.
Syncing the phone. There is currently no support for outlook and well even when you export from outlook in CSV format and import into Google it always comes up half garbled with no pictures already saved for contacts. Also not correctly saving number types. IE from outlook if u save it as a mobile number so u can sms on a WM6 device once imported into google it lists it as a regular phone# and cant quickly create a sms to that user by (auto completing the name as you type.)
The only 2 things i have notice that Remember last view is the homescreen and the Applications menu. For instance if you go into your Apps management and uninstall an app. it sends you to the top of the list. The same goes with your Contacts, Directory views, Music library, Etc.
The default options for all applications are normally the same as in notification options. So if i am getting a Text, MMS, Email or what have you it is the same notification for every notification event.
There is no "task manager" to kill processes. IE an X button to close programs or access to kill process' and while Android is supposed to close programs on its own tell that to mine when i run the Browser or Myspace, Facebook, PacMac and close out of the screens and as time passes i wonder why my phone is running slow and open up the Task Switcher and see all of these running still.
There has been no porting of Office XXXX or Open Office to support excel, docx, and the like formats to android at this time yet.
While many people think that the G1 is a big let down and got it and got rid of it. Many of us see the potentional of its power and customization. So if enough of the users voice there dislikes about standard features you EXPECT and want on your device the better the chances that they will take notice.
ultraman69 said:
i rated it very poor, i am very disappointed with the phone and google should be ashamed of themselves. the g1 can't do 1/10th of the things my wing did and my wing was a dog. android is worse than win ce when i first tried it on '03. thanks g1 for ruining my year. xda-devs, please get winmo on this asap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.
G1 for 2 weeks ... returned ;?
This is not a thread to bash the G1 in anyway, this is not to compare it to other touchscreen phones. This is merely a usability distinction where i couldn't justify $400 for the device which was more or less to play with android.
the G1 is a good phone, speakers (earpiece/speaker on back) have some amplification issues when the volume is too high, coming from and SE phone however they were more than acceptable in rage and clarity if the volume was controlled.
the internet was outstanding, what i would have liked to have seen was copy and paste in browser, which may have held me to the phone a bit longer than the return period. not being able to at the very least edit docs.google.com documents was irritating at best, especially with no proper document viewer on the phone, severely constricting the email that could be sent from the phone. i am by no means a business user ... but wow, i cant even edit a *.doc thats not already on my phone to another person with some changes.
this has rambled on long enough, i just wanted to share a few thoughts that i had of the device.
diabolical28 said:
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While correct that the Wing has the upper hand in generations of O/S, I am reminded of a great quote:
"A wise man learns from his mistakes, a wiser man learn's from the mistakes of the one around him"
sure, you need to change the words around a bit, but the lesson is to learn from others. They didnt. Android has a lot of possibilities. Unfortunately they did not "learn" from WM6, they left a lot out. They left it in the hands of developers, who seem to be too busy writing "flashlight" and "punch meter" to write useful everyday apps that we are lacking. So far the only app that I have seen that addresses a missing feature is the missed call app 9which is AWESOME as I miss a lot of calls because they dont ring though ).
I am still keeping the phone simply because of the browsing feature, I love sitting on the couch and browsing websites smoothly. Unbelievably the browser also lacks simple features like a simple ADDRESS bar (well, its hidden in the menus so you would SEARCH and add to Google's search results instead of direct typing a URL) and switching between tabs (now called Windows) is too many unnecessary "touches" in my opinion.
I dont mean to bash the phone (and dont even think about replying with "get another phone if you dont like it") but I like to bring these frustrations up so that Google programmers know one more time why this phone is going to lose its shine if they are too late bringing themselves up to date. (PS3 Sales anyone?, Late on price cuts?). See if you are too late these days, it doesn't matter if you are better, look at MSN's Video website, its awesome and MUCH better than Youtube but no one knows about it because they were late (and they don't have their own "brand name" and its simply MSN Video)
Not being able to edit *.doc files from inside the phone's memory or google docs is one thing, and I think is acceptable on a not-so-fresh-release-anymore phone.
What is NOT acceptable whatsoever on this phone is:
Not being able to see IMAGES in Gmail??! For goodness sake Google and T-Mobile claim everything you love about google in your hand, BS. Windows Mobile did this back in 1999 (used to be called Windows CE and had its own outlook) Yes that was 1999 TEN YEARS AGO on my Cassiopea
Other items worth mentioning to those who don't have the phone:
No proper support of Google's own search on its own website! (constantly getting the blank search result page)
No Copy/Paste
No Contact Sync with Outlook (what the hell? is this Nokia 1997 all over again?)
No spreadsheet/word doc editor/viewer (ok, ok, we are waiting for all kind of programmers making incompatible with each other software
No PDF viewer (Correction, there is a great PDF viewer in the market for purchase, I meant part of the browser, I think google probably wants to come up with its own version for its Google Book website and doesnt want to use Adobe PDF)
No Flash (there goes 50% of the websites I browse)
Severly closed source and limited programming that has caused simple BS "apps" with a few exceptions. Developers are crying about how limited they are in writing programs as this phone is sooo CLOSED in all ways, there is no way to even write a Gadget for it like the clock that comes on the screen. No root access either.
Unscrollable, limited desktop space
No windows for categorizing icons. Well, Google does not believe in categorizing and file systems. I am sure all their own servers are full of FOLDERs just like Microsoft servers but they claim everything should be "LABELED" not "folder"'d.
No app installation on the SD card?? Whats this one?? I dropped my WING because it was still using the ten year old Windows CE memory system (almost) and had very limited space and was always running out.
This phone made me appreciate all the little details that engineers at Microsoft have thought of in the past 20 years and included in Windows. I think of how our life would've beeen different and productivity in the world would've been so behind if Linux, IBMOS/2 and other crap had taken over the computer world. Thanks again Microsoft for all the thousands and thousands of free "apps" you included in Windows. Stuff as simple as RIGHT clicking on the screen or COPY/Paste or just a window to categorize icons, simple stupid things I have been taking for granted for years. I am sure Google programmers would love to use Windows in all their own computers while at work. Now I know why Windows dominates the software industry even though they have failed in cluttered annoying text advertising, search, maps and a few other areas.
brooklynite said:
I am still keeping the phone simply because of the browsing feature, I love sitting on the couch and browsing websites smoothly. Unbelievably the browser also lacks simple features like a simple ADDRESS bar (well, its hidden in the menus so you would SEARCH and add to Google's search results instead of direct typing a URL) and switching between tabs (now called Windows) is too many unnecessary "touches" in my opinion.
I dont mean to bash the phone (and dont even think about replying with "get another phone if you dont like it") but I like to bring these frustrations up so that Google programmers know one more time why this phone is going to lose its shine if they are too late bringing themselves up to date. (PS3 Sales anyone?, Late on price cuts?). See if you are too late these days, it doesn't matter if you are better, look at MSN's Video website, its awesome and MUCH better than Youtube but no one knows about it because they were late (and they don't have their own "brand name" and its simply MSN Video)
Not being able to edit *.doc files from inside the phone's memory or google docs is one thing, and I think is acceptable on a not-so-fresh-release-anymore phone.
What is NOT acceptable whatsoever on this phone is:
Not being able to see IMAGES in Gmail??! For goodness sake Google and T-Mobile claim everything you love about google in your hand, BS. Windows Mobile did this back in 1999 (used to be called Windows CE and had its own outlook) Yes that was 1999 TEN YEARS AGO on my Cassiopea
Other items worth mentioning to those who don't have the phone:
No proper support of Google's own search on its own website! (constantly getting the blank search result page)
No Copy/Paste
No Contact Sync with Outlook (what the hell? is this Nokia 1997 all over again?)
No spreadsheet/word doc editor/viewer (ok, ok, we are waiting for all kind of programmers making incompatible with each other software
No PDF viewer
No Flash (there goes 50% of the websites I browse)
Severly closed source and limited programming that has caused simple BS "apps" with a few exceptions. Developers are crying about how limited they are in writing programs as this phone is sooo CLOSED in all ways, there is no way to even write a Gadget for it like the clock that comes on the screen. No root access either.
Unscrollable, limited desktop space
No windows for categorizing icons. Well, Google does not believe in categorizing and file systems. I am sure all their own servers are full of FOLDERs just like Microsoft servers but they claim everything should be "LABELED" not "folder"'d.
No app installation on the SD card?? Whats this one?? I dropped my WING because it was still using the ten year old Windows CE memory system (almost) and had very limited space and was always running out.
This phone made me appreciate all the little details that engineers at Microsoft have thought of in the past 20 years and included in Windows. I think of how our life would've beeen different and productivity in the world would've been so behind if Linux, IBMOS/2 and other crap had taken over the computer world. Thanks again Microsoft for all the thousands and thousands of free "apps" you included in Windows. Stuff as simple as RIGHT clicking on the screen or COPY/Paste or just a window to categorize icons, simple stupid things I have been taking for granted for years. I am sure Google programmers would love to use Windows in all their own computers while at work. Now I know why Windows dominates the software industry even though they have failed in cluttered annoying text advertising, search, maps and a few other areas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flash was announced to be coming sometime in the near future by adobe, when is the question. There is a pdf viewer on handango however i purchased it and tried to open g1's full manual and it wont open it. GO FIGURE lol.
And contacts sync with Outlook is already out - see MailShadowG at www.cemaphore.com
- in fact, it's an entire push Exchange mail/contacts/calendar sync.
diabolical28 said:
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry, i didn't know that this poll was to rate the potential of the g1. potentially, any phone can be great, 5 stars...
i think by now, 2008, the requirements for a pda phone are pretty much well defined. ms may have taken 3 to 4 gens to get it right, it doesn't mean that google needs 4 gens. they don't have to invent or reinvent anything, it all already there.
unfortunately, google seems too wrapped up in UI than functionality. actually, i don't know where their focus is.
Sup /Development and Hacking/,
just wanted to share some ideas and ask for advice on a troubling thing that's been bothering me for a few days already.
I believe that there are quite a lot of betamax (and their numerous clones/resellers) users in WM community.
It would be great to have an application which would provide user-friendly access to betamax services like sending cheap SMSes, making VoIP calls and using callback connection.
In fact, I've even stumbled over one at some russian website (http://www.moroko.ru/pda/). Problem is, not only is it not a freeware, but also it's impossible to purchase the app itself, as it only comes with the subscription those guys resell. Trial version is limited to 7 balance/connection requests. And yes, it seems they only have the version with russian interface.
But all the features i'm looking for are there-big iphone-like buttons (so i don't need to use a stupid stylus),VoIP calls, sms, callback service etc.
I've googled a lot looking for some alternative, but was sort of amused to find out that "native" voipbuster app is some java junk with total lack of usability and absence of some important features.
Can anyone put me in a right direction where to look for such application?