Database Users

Magician USB OTG Evidence? (USB Host)

Ok,
I was reading a post over at the PSP Linux forum about suspicions that the PSP has USB On-The-Go abilities. USB On-The-Go basically means a device can be a USB Host or a USB Client, and is usually restricted to a a certain class of USB devices - eg you might want a USB OTG camera to only act as a host with Storage Devices.
Now to quote this page http://www.beyondlogic.org/usb/otghost.htm ...
As a device can be either a host (A-device) or peripheral (B-device) and that the USB specification calls for different types of connectors for upstream and downstream ports, the OTG spec introduced two additional connectors. One such connector is a mini A/B connector allowing a mini A or mini B connector to plug into the one recepticle. A dual-role device is required to be able to detect whether a Mini-A or Mini-B plug is inserted by determining if the ID pin (an extra pin introduced by OTG) is connected to ground.
This basically says that tradictional USB uses A connectors for Hosts and B connectors for Clients. Because they needed to allow OTG devices to be used as both a Host and a Client, they designed a port that could accept both mini A and mini B connectors. Unsuprisingly, this is called a mini AB connector
So, for small USB Client devices, a mini B connector is used. They look like this:
http://www.cypressindustries.com/products/images/ccmusbb-32005-201.gif
For small USB OTG devices, the new miniAB port is used. They look like this:
http://www.cypressindustries.com/products/images/ccmusbab-32005-700.gif
so go look on the bottom of the Magician. Low and behold, a mini AB connector! In fact you'll see the cable they gave you with your magician is a mini B but it still fits into the mini AB connector on the jam, even though it's a slightly different shape.
Now, it could be USB Host was planned or the port was added to allow backwards compatability with the Magician2 or whatever, but all the same it's a pretty interesting feature, given that a company can probably source mini B connectors for cheaper than mini AB, (as not many companies are making them yet).

So... does the Jam have USB host functionality or not???
If so, here's some drivers to take advantage of this function. Use at your own risk.
http://www.deje.gmxhome.de/
http://www.anypakusa.com/PPC/
Maybe one could connect the jam to a hard drive???

I've did some research, and if the Magician supports USB On The Go (why else would there be a MiniAB connector on the bottom of the device in stead of a normal MiniB (4p) connector) it should be able to play USB Host.
I'm ordering a MiniA to A Female connector and I'm hoping it will work out so I can connect a USB Flashdrive, GPS reciever etc.etc.

Why do people need USB host on their Magician? I can only imagine using an USB keyboard, but everything else I can do with bluetooth and my 4 GB MMC card.
And for using my Magician as "USB-Brick" I use this here:
http://www.softick.com/pocket-pc/cardexport2/

Well... I don't like wireless That's the most important reason.
I want to use a wired GPS-reciever in my car.
I want to be able to connect a USB mass storage driver.
And I'm a geek who just wants to explore every possible option
So why shouldn't I give it a try

esackbauer said:
Why do people need USB host on their Magician? I can only imagine using an USB keyboard, but everything else I can do with bluetooth and my 4 GB MMC card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I think most of the people are interested on the fact that you can actually use an ext hdd, e.g. you have 80GB+ of videos, mp3s that you play on your unit (although I doubt it is able to power the 2.5" type). You can print documents from your unit to a printer, get your pictures off your dig camera, use a USB ext wifi, etc.

hanmin said:
Well, I think most of the people are interested on the fact that you can actually use an ext hdd, e.g. you have 80GB+ of videos, mp3s that you play on your unit (although I doubt it is able to power the 2.5" type). You can print documents from your unit to a printer, get your pictures off your dig camera, use a USB ext wifi, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me for being a pain, but all these options are nonsense IMO, because Magician is the ultra portable device.
What is the sense of attaching a bulky 80GB hdd and cables to the Magician? To have its batteries empty in only 15 minutes?
Printing can be done wireless via infrared (HP printers) or WLAN, digicam pictures I can load by directly inserting its card in Magician. USB Wifi is also a joke as it drains the battery immediately.
If you want all these options, do it right and buy a Subnotebook and a 3G UMTS PC-Card.

esackbauer said:
Excuse me for being a pain, but all these options are nonsense IMO, because Magician is the ultra portable device.
What is the sense of attaching a bulky 80GB hdd and cables to the Magician? To have its batteries empty in only 15 minutes?
Printing can be done wireless via infrared (HP printers) or WLAN, digicam pictures I can load by directly inserting its card in Magician. USB Wifi is also a joke as it drains the battery immediately.
If you want all these options, do it right and buy a Subnotebook and a 3G UMTS PC-Card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ditto

I really doubt it supports USB Host. The board definately supports it, but HTC don't implement it. I think this will yield no results....
Hope you prove me wrong
And dude...... 1.8" Hard Disk Drives are TINY!!! so just quit being a spoil sport

Of course I wouldn't be connecting an periperal eventhough how small it is while walking around, but while at home or in the car sounds ok.

Well USB OTG would be great as I could dump all of my pictures on my digital camera (1GB card) onto my Charmers 4GB SD card. On holiday and stuff this would be really handy so I don't run out of space.

to be honest its not about what you can do with it, its partly bragging rights, hey look i can do so and so on my phone.... etc..

I, for one, would like to see a USB host hack.
Yes, there are SDIO wifis.
Yes, there are SDIO cards that allow wall projector connection.
But these require that I give up my memory card, where I store my stuff, making these things have only limited use.*
I could use Bluetooth, but:
- A standalone BT <-> Wifi bridge that isn't a PC or doesn't connect to a PC does not yet exist. There is a Bluetooth portable GPS receiver, but that's it.
- Projectors with BT enabled are FREAKING EXPENSIVE. Not to mention they aren't common. I've always wondered what that stray miniusb port on the more common small business models are for...
So why not buy a laptop, you ask?
Well, I already have a PC.
If you're suggesting I buy one, either you have never carried one around before, or you're so rich you can buy the lightest, least bulky ones without burning a hole in your pocket.
*That Sandisk 256/Wifi can't quite contain everything I'd want on my 1gig, leaving my only recourse to be (hopefully) the Eye-Film which is currently only in prototype stage. Sandisk already EOL'd that product anyway.

There are only 2 possibilities to get USB Host:
1. Wait for the WM2005 ROM for Magician, maybe HTC implemented the USB Host driver with it ;-)
2. Wait for HTC Trinity, maybe it has USB Host.
However, both options are not very realistic, because a WLAN USB Stick pulls 500 mA from the battery, so you get about 30 minutes battery life...
An USB Host has to provide power to the connected devices, and this is the reason why we probably won't ever see it on a mass market device.

You think you connect any USB device on that Host and it works? Like printers, scanners etc? Sorry, but you're dreaming. You need drivers for this and they just don't exist. There are no USB GPS mice that work with Pocket PCs and there are no Wifi sticks that work with Pocket PCs, period.
The only thing you could do is connect some mass storage device and use this. Besides that I'm 100% sure that the Magician doesn't support USB Host functionality, period.
So get a new PPC with Wifi and use Wifi disks etc. USB host would be nice but no Phone Edition device that I know of has it.

It would be SOOOOOO nice to connect a harddisk to my magician. A 4GB SD Card cannot store all my MP3s. And I want them all in my Car.

Dandie said:
So get a new PPC with Wifi and use Wifi disks etc. USB host would be nice but no Phone Edition device that I know of has it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, Eten M500 supports it.

You need drivers for this and they just don't exist
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Certain drivers do exist; like the JetCet unofficial ones. You'd also need to load drivers for SD-IO cards as well (IIRC the Sandisk Wifi/Mem combo needed a driver), so drivers are actually a non-issue. What matters is that it can be done.

jackleung said:
Actually, Eten M500 supports it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Magician also supports USB host, because
your BT is attached there. So what? It is the 500mA
current source and the electrical connection to
the USB socket that counts.

Currents not a problem i should think. All USB devices are standard 0.5A supply.. and all USB devices use the same supply.

USB on Universal

Hi,
I'm looking to buy a Universal but I've a question on the USB port.
Has anyone tried connecting a USB hard drive directly to the Universal? I have a Archive Gmini 220 and I was wondering if the Universal would see it as an external drive and if this is the case can it run media on the drive such as MP3 or AVI files? Also has anyone tried connecting a card reader to read CF or Memory sticks etc.
Any rumours of a Universal with internal hard drive?
Captaink

Olnly thing i've heard is it does support but peoples who already tried says nevr made it work.

That's because just as with a normal PC it needs drivers to work with your device.
It's just a matter of time........ :lol:

rob_van_triet said:
That's because just as with a normal PC it needs drivers to work with your device.
It's just a matter of time........ :lol:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. This picture
http://www.tekguru.co.uk/reviews/images/xda_exec/Exec_012.jpg
clearly shows the mini-AB receptacle
http://www.hardware-bastelkiste.de/usb.html

Having a USB socket doesnt mean its a USB host!!!
It has to have that mini usb socket so that you can sync and charge, as they dropped the old style 21pin connector now. Its just like the Magician with usb only now.
There have been rumours it supports USB host mode, but ive not heard any confirmation or proof.

in this review of the device they say it does host
http://www.tekguru.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7031

Pyrofer said:
Having a USB socket doesnt mean its a USB host!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The PXA270 has a builtin USB host and
can operate as an OTG device. The guys
at HTC must be really sick if they have
not wired it.
I don't get only one thing: what USB 2.0
means here ? OTG ?

in which case it seems that HP and DELL are sick aswell
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=26742&highlight=usb
8)

USB External HDD

Am I able to plug an external USB HDD for use in the Trinity?
I would obviously need to buy a converter from the normal size USB to the small version on the PDA. I just haven't heard anyone talk about it.... so I thought I'd pose the question.

ericthc said:
Am I able to plug an external USB HDD for use in the Trinity?
I would obviously need to buy a converter from the normal size USB to the small version on the PDA. I just haven't heard anyone talk about it.... so I thought I'd pose the question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not supported.

Can I use an external hard drive?

Is it possible to connect an external hard drive to the Vogue to use it as an MP3 player hooked up to my stereo to play music? My hard dive has a USB slot. Does anyone know how I can use the MiniUSB cable to USB cable and use the songs on the hard drive?

wow
wow... really? wow... umm...
probably not, USB doesnt actually stand for universal... i'm assuming you'd need some type of drivers or simple deviece support.
MAYBE.... you could use bluetooth to access it? but you'd need to build some hardware, and software.... so... probably no
im not an expert by any means though... somebody check out?
[everybody be easy on him, it's a pretty damn creative idea]

I've heard of prototypes of Bluetooth/WiFi accessible portable HDD's, but I've never seen one in production.
As far as hooking up directly via USB, I don't think it's possible since almost no (if any) PPCs can serve as a USB host.

Eh?
I bought a 4 port USB Hub (powered(?) Never got it yet..)for the Touch from cellphoneshop.net, and I'm guessing that maybe USB Caddy might if it is a Microdrive, but yea, you'll probably need some driivers to make it work...
Interesting Idea, and I had that thought some time ago...I was about to add 5VDC (external) to my USB Caddy, and attach it to my touch... never did finish that project...

I tried a powered hub, and had no success.

Why only one usb????

Why only one usb!!!!!!
I think that anotherone may be very very usefull....
OR NOT?
Anyone agree?

For what?
pitt1983 said:
Why only one usb!!!!!!
I think that anotherone may be very very usefull....
OR NOT?
Anyone agree?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you wanna use it for? havent used mine a single time since i got the device.

ehm..
ehm..
usb key and mouse,
usb key and an external hdd
2 external hdd
mouse and external hdd
2 usb pen
an external dvd that need 2 usb
included hub need 2 usb
and i think many many many others uses

You get a free USB hub with Ethernet !!
Included in the package is a USB hub with 3 ports, AND an ETHERNET port !
Nice... I really do like my device

pitt1983 said:
ehm..
included hub need 2 usb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really ? why would they put a usb hub that does not work with the shift... seems weird !
everybody here is using the usb hub without any issue I believe.. because they would have complained earlier

The (much bigger) MacBook AIR also has only one USB port... and Apple doesn't include an 3port-USB-Hub with embedded ethernet port - the shift does.
But there are of course also technical reasons (besides space): Power! An additional USB Port would require additinal power (up to 0,5A at 5V) - thus, the internal power system must be bigger sized for this (and an "oversized" internal power system means: Inefficent under normal operating conditions).
And remember: Most USB Disks draw more than 0,5A from the USB port, especially at spinup time...

pitt1983 said:
included hub need 2 usb
and i think many many many others uses
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not true. Did you try it ?

no need usb?
so noone need another usb?
I love my shift! i waited for it one year.
but i think that one more usb port can be more useful.
i repeat. LOVE THAT SHIFT!

McDoPDA said:
not true. Did you try it ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you use htc hub and two portable usb hdd you can't use them. or if i use an external dvd that bring alimentation by usb i can use it.
sorry for my english.

pitt1983 said:
if you use htc hub and two portable usb hdd you can't use them. or if i use an external dvd that bring alimentation by usb i can use it.
sorry for my english.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok I see what you mean .. mmh well.. maybe you can find an usb hub with external power ? it would solve all the issues

external power
koala996 said:
ok I see what you mean .. mmh well.. maybe you can find an usb hub with external power ? it would solve all the issues
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
when i'm in office or at home i use an external power cable directly connected to the htc hub. but is not comfortable.
and when i'm out or in others places i can't use external power cable.
in my opinion not comfortable anymore.

Isn't the small USB port at the back of the Hub just power in? I didn't try yet, but it is obviously a IN port.
Axel

These usb options are great but I think you missing the point of the shift.
The shift is supposed to be a portable device, are you really going to bring all those wired devices with you? Do you really want to be connecting all that up each time you get to work or your desk at home? everyday?
Why not use bluetooth devices?
keyboard and mouse -bluetooth for sure.
Same goes for the pens, portable scanners and printers almost all of them can be found with a bluetooth options.
Hell I even use bluetooth devices for the serial connections on the routers and switches I work with.
Now your external dvd and hardrive to replace those you have to get creative -
For home and work I always map a drive from a desktop machine.
On the road you have a couple of options with flash drives at 16gb for $50-70 bucks do really need that old external harddrive that uses two ports?
32GB flash drives are now as low as $150. Quite few dvd's you can fit on that!
If you really want to be free of carrying stuff around sign up for sugarsync or some other online service and never carry your data again.
I almost never use the external usb hub that came with the shift. It is a last resort item for me, destined for the bottom of the laptop bag. Wifi, 3g and no cables will always be prefered over that thing.
You may like sticking with usb cable/dongle devices but consider switching a few out for more wireless solutions and I think you will like your shift a whole lot better. That rats nest of cables in your laptop bag will shink as well!
I am not knocking you question or the advise others have given just offering an alternative.
My dream is for somebody to find a way to charge the battery on my shift without a cable connected then I will die a happy man.

EinSiedler said:
Isn't the small USB port at the back of the Hub just power in? I didn't try yet, but it is obviously a IN port.
Axel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes is a power in port. if shift had 2 ports i can be able to use it whitout a power connector at wall (sorry for the expression) i don't know how to say it in english.
however shift have one only usb port. and it is not comfortable.

stormforger said:
These usb options are great but I think you missing the point of the shift.
The shift is supposed to be a portable device, are you really going to bring all those wired devices with you? Do you really want to be connecting all that up each time you get to work or your desk at home? everyday?
Why not use bluetooth devices?
keyboard and mouse -bluetooth for sure.
Same goes for the pens, portable scanners and printers almost all of them can be found with a bluetooth options.
Hell I even use bluetooth devices for the serial connections on the routers and switches I work with.
Now your external dvd and hardrive to replace those you have to get creative -
For home and work I always map a drive from a desktop machine.
On the road you have a couple of options with flash drives at 16gb for $50-70 bucks do really need that old external harddrive that uses two ports?
32GB flash drives are now as low as $150. Quite few dvd's you can fit on that!
If you really want to be free of carrying stuff around sign up for sugarsync or some other online service and never carry your data again.
I almost never use the external usb hub that came with the shift. It is a last resort item for me, destined for the bottom of the laptop bag. Wifi, 3g and no cables will always be prefered over that thing.
You may like sticking with usb cable/dongle devices but consider switching a few out for more wireless solutions and I think you will like your shift a whole lot better. That rats nest of cables in your laptop bag will shink as well!
I am not knocking you question or the advise others have given just offering an alternative.
My dream is for somebody to find a way to charge the battery on my shift without a cable connected then I will die a happy man.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah charging batteries without power cord maybe the century revelation. i hope will be a reality...
i return to my argument ( always sorry for my english)
online storage are not very fast.. or capable for the gigabites that i need to carry with me.
every day i need to put on my pc's, shift included, customers files, personal files, try many new programs. and these actions (you well know on microsoft may destroy very fast a system configuration). an you know that vista business and ultimate have an usefull utility of backup. i need to backup and restore many times in a week or in a day my sistem. so, i need to carry with me many hdd or 8gb pen drive..
and this is my problem..

EinSiedler said:
Isn't the small USB port at the back of the Hub just power in? I didn't try yet, but it is obviously a IN port.
Axel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you put your mobile phone power cord in the htc hub will be feeded up.
now when hub is feeded you can put more hdd or an external dvd. but if you unput power cord the dvd or the hdds not work yet...

Did you plug a power supply in the mini usb plug on the back? This is a powered USB hub.

i think htc could of added more usb ports but the biggest problem was the space. more usb ports could of made it bigger. never disassembled or looked at the disassembly pics close but im guessing there is no more room really.

Pawel062 said:
i think htc could of added more usb ports but the biggest problem was the space. more usb ports could of made it bigger. never disassembled or looked at the disassembly pics close but im guessing there is no more room really.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i saw by a cinese or corean site the shift got naked, i think that there is some littlle space to put another usb port. i think.

Erhhh its a umpc not a workstation
pitt1983 said:
ehm..
usb key and mouse,
usb key and an external hdd
2 external hdd
mouse and external hdd
2 usb pen
an external dvd that need 2 usb
included hub need 2 usb
and i think many many many others uses
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not a workstation, if you need a all this you may have bought the wrong form factor. i have never used my usb port, i dont see what i should connect to this form factor, maybe a usb stick once in a while..
else use the usb hub and bluetooth mouse/keyboard