What's up with these guys, HTC and the phone companies? What does it benefit them if they put perfect SPLs or things we can't root? They won't lose the non-techies as customers if they put out non-perfect SPLs. These guys don't care. Yet, they gain the business of the techies if they don't have perfect SPLs.
So what do they gain?Why do they do it?
2 things I think...
First, they fix bug's... The root might be considered a bug so they just fixed it...
Second... They deliver a product made by them, others companies made they're own version of android (gui, apps, etc)... So, having a perfect spl is the way to sell their own product without other people porting them up to other devices...
Well, thats just my thoughts
:No-Frost: said:
2 things I think...
First, they fix bug's... The root might be considered a bug so they just fixed it...
Second... They deliver a product made by them, others companies made they're own version of android (gui, apps, etc)... So, having a perfect spl is the way to sell their own product without other people porting them up to other devices...
Well, thats just my thoughts
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Click to collapse
Basically, yep that's about it.
I would suggest it is mostly the carriers demanding this, especially when flashing firmware can leave you with a expensive brick. If it is too easy lots of semi-skilled users will try it and screw up their phone. Which they will then take back to the store and claim "it just died, I did not do anything"... leaving the store to either eat the cost or tell the user that they screwed up and bricked their phone and too bad, so sad, pissing off the customer.
Plus many/most/all (?) carriers are control freaks and the idea of users being allowed to load whatever apps and features on to their own equipment freaks them right out. They are ever so slowly coming kicking and screaming into the reality that smartphones are really portable computers and that this makes them commodity bit pipes but they certainly don't like the idea. This is why so many carriers are in love with the IPhone and its very rigidly controlled app store and lack of easy alternate methods of loading apps.
Just a general thought/question about Android:
What really stops us from using newer versions of Android on our devices, without the need for a dev making a custom rom?
I know the short answer is compatibility. (i.e. drivers etc.)
But what would it take from manufactorers to allow us to uprgade to vanilla versions of Android ourselves?
Consider a desktop/laptop for example: It can continue to run many different versions of ubuntu. No need for customization for each PC. Today driver issues are becoming fewer and fewer as well.
Why can't my phone do the same thing?
Sent from my HTC Vision
different people like different things
some like how CM give you different options
some like MIUI allow you to change theme / icons / other stuff easily
some like the HTC sense widgets / layout
its just very difficult to combine all those into one rom, and retain the speed on all those
then there are manufacturer / carrier restriction a rom needs to add to "prevent us having too much control and brick the phone for warranty purposes"
just think HOW can you combine the miui folders into CM and add all those HTC widgets and other options available
if you can do it, you have made yourself a new ROM people will sought after,
maybe thats the ultimate rom for all ... and we dont need to keep looking forward to a new ones ....
From a development standpoint it could be done. Combining all the roms that is.
The development time on that would be astronomical though, you'd basically be creating a rom almost from scratch and unless you had a HUGE team working for you - updates would be in tiny increments at best, 1.00.00.01 updated to 1.00.00.03 for example. The worst case would be that they'd take forever. Look at how long it takes for a stable release of CM, and that a fairly modest team. Let's not even get started on size, yes most current phones could handle a rom of 250MB+ without any custom MTDs' but damn (sorry) - that's huge. To combine all the main desirable functions of each rom would end up being at least that big.
Hi I wanted to buy a wp8 device but after reading this article I gave up buying a wp8 device. Because no custom roms is a deal-breaker for me. So looks like its not possible to unlock wp8 devices for now but I don't know is it gonna be in the future. I'm asking because I don't know how unlocking process works because I never used a wp device. I know how android system works but I have no idea about wp devices. So if you guys can explain if it can be done in the future or why we will never be able to unlock wp8 devices. :good:
Edit: Its no longer a deal-breaker for me I thought unlock was important as much as jailbreak on iphone and root on android. But thanks for helping me realise wp devices do not need unlock
Edit2: I bought a lumia 920. You guys were right wp is awesome. Only things I am missing from android is file explorer, rotation lock and notifications.
Yes you definitely dont know much about WP. You never used one, but you know that custom ROMs are dealbreaker for you. Nice.
Just to let you know, custom roms are not important at all in WP. They dont bring much improvement, far less than in android.
martan1981 said:
Yes you definitely dont know much about WP. You never used one, but you know that custom ROMs are dealbreaker for you. Nice.
Just to let you know, custom roms are not important at all in WP. They dont bring much improvement, far less than in android.
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You can be right, custom roms means a lot on android and jailbreak means a lot for iphone. So I thought unlock is important like jailbreak/root. But if not, I'm definitely gonna buy a wp8 Thanks for the info about roms. I want to ask, can we install local apps like we can do at android without unlocking?
Windows Phones do not need custom ROMs, because all the mess that's happening on base ROMs for android is not present, which is why custom ROMs exist for android in the first place, and not because of customization or whatever else then less enlighten users use ROMs for.
mcosmin222 said:
Windows Phones do not need custom ROMs, because all the mess that's happening on base ROMs for android is not present, which is why custom ROMs exist for android in the first place
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Er, custom ROMs aren't "needed" anywhere.* They exist because developers have an itch for some feature or bugfix not available in stock - in other words, they have something that improves over stock in some way. Perhaps you should read the feature lists of some WP custom ROMs.
No possible improvements over stock is not a good thing no matter how you spin it. That said, I think the OP is overreacting calling it a "deal-breaker". Well, it depends on what you're looking for in "jailbreaking". This jailbreak feature, for one, won't be available.
*Edit: You know this because the users of custom ROMs are always in the vast minority.
Something that needs improvement is messed up in my books sooo....
Yeh the Op is kinda exaggerating with the deal-breaker though.
mcosmin222 said:
Something that needs improvement is messed up in my books sooo....
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As I've just pointed out, improvement is not needed. On the other hand, is improvement improvement? Why, yes.
thebobp said:
Er, custom ROMs aren't "needed" anywhere.* They exist because developers have an itch for some feature or bugfix not available in stock - in other words, they have something that improves over stock in some way. Perhaps you should read the feature lists of some WP custom ROMs.
No possible improvements over stock is not a good thing no matter how you spin it. That said, I think the OP is overreacting calling it a "deal-breaker". Well, it depends on what you're looking for in "jailbreaking". This jailbreak feature, for one, won't be available.
*Edit: You know this because the users of custom ROMs are always in the vast minority.
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Bite your tongue, sir: custom roms are practically necessary for android. Stock ROMs have faulty GPS drivers, crapware, bloatware, SPYWARE even. I have a friend who bought a low end android phone from sprint. Two mistakes: being on sprint and going low end on android. It's getting better, but android is a huge resource hog, and having all the carrier crap on there makes it worse. My friend's phone is quite literally unusable; it locks up very often. Even after I hard reset it for him. On android, stock is [probably] ALWAYS bad.
WP8 however.... I have a custom ROM for my WP7 device, but everything I've done with the custom ROM is natively supported in WP8. So I guess I could live with a stock WP8 ROM. The only thing I'd be missing out on is free tethering.
Carriers, if you charge for tethering... **** you.
^ in your opinion.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
link68759 said:
Bite your tongue, sir: custom roms are practically necessary for android. Stock ROMs have faulty GPS drivers, crapware, bloatware, SPYWARE even. I have a friend who bought a low end android phone from sprint. Two mistakes: being on sprint and going low end on android. It's getting better, but android is a huge resource hog, and having all the carrier crap on there makes it worse. My friend's phone is quite literally unusable; it locks up very often. Even after I hard reset it for him. On android, stock is [probably] ALWAYS bad.
WP8 however.... I have a custom ROM for my WP7 device, but everything I've done with the custom ROM is natively supported in WP8. So I guess I could live with a stock WP8 ROM. The only thing I'd be missing out on is free tethering.
Carriers, if you charge for tethering... **** you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Free tethering? My experience tells me that only the Dell Venue Pro is incapable of wi-fi tethering because of the chipset. The carriers have disabled the feature but a lot of phones can be interop unlocked and have the feature enabled. Heck, the Quantum requires little effort since it has an onboard reg edit tool. Google be thy friend.
Amazing! (And incredibly stupid!)
This will eventually flood this forum with unhappy users, wishing to mod their devices...after having seen their cool AOS counter parts.
Nothing to mod it works out of the box. I dont even see a point in current custom roms wp7.5..just few added apps & unlocked for piracy (ok "homebrew")
Hacking is by definition something that should be impossible.
Hacking is based on using some unpredicted exploit to workaround security.
If today we knew that Custom Roms would be going to be possible on WP8 then Microsoft could fix the exploit.
Don't blame Microsoft for this of course, you know most (I did not say every) people wants to unlock their phone to sideload pirated apps.
That's simply the truth. This is what happens all around me on iPhone and Android ecosystem.
Now the real question is : how much interesting (or clever) is speaking about the existence of exploits on something you don't even own/know ?
Articles like the linked one looks nothing more than a big flame to me, and this topic is no different.
P.S. It is really funny to find out some users are particularly attracted by this kind of topic, isn't it?
You realize that the place you're posting to caters to the small percentage of people who want / use any flexibility afforded them, right?
The elegance of a closed system (relatively speaking) is the stability you can accomplish. This is the apple model to a tee, and for most people it's fine.
BUT, flexibility is where windows the traditional OS, Android, and Linux shine. There are always optimizations that can be done, always tweaks, custom apps galore. Android ROMs have spoiled us, masses be dammed.
Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk 2
dragonide said:
Hacking is by definition something that should be impossible.
Hacking is based on using some unpredicted exploit to workaround security.
If today we knew that Custom Roms would be going to be possible on WP8 then Microsoft could fix the exploit.
Don't blame Microsoft for this of course, you know most (I did not say every) people wants to unlock their phone to sideload pirated apps.
That's simply the truth. This is what happens all around me on iPhone and Android ecosystem.
Now the real question is : how much interesting (or clever) is speaking about the existence of exploits on something you don't even own/know ?
Articles like the linked one looks nothing more than a big flame to me, and this topic is no different.
P.S. It is really funny to find out some users are particularly attracted by this kind of topic, isn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has began.
I actually am for Custom ROMs. Sorry, but Devs sometimes just do a better job at things. A Interop Unlocking and Custom ROMs made my Trophy a heck of a lot more enjoyable to use.
And I disagree with all the lock downs MS has in place. Email, messaging clients, browsers, keyboards. We are all stuck with one version. No chance to use versions a Dev could provide that would give us more options and features. Sometimes, Devs just do things better. The MS locked apps I listed, among others, can all be improved upon. Rather than waiting or hoping MS does more to improve them, itd be a lot nicer to have options of 3rd party devs.
lugi93 said:
Nothing to mod it works out of the box. I dont even see a point in current custom roms wp7.5..just few added apps & unlocked for piracy (ok "homebrew")
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Click to collapse
So WP8 has a file explorer?
lugi93 said:
Nothing to mod it works out of the box. I dont even see a point in current custom roms wp7.5..just few added apps & unlocked for piracy (ok "homebrew")
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that I have WP8 I no longer have custom ROMs, and here's a list of things I'm missing.
-Being able to back up and restore isolated storage (aka game saves and apps with braindamaged devs who don't export to skydrive)
-Setting goddamn custom notification sounds.
-Enabling internet sharing on AT&T
-Bluetooth file transfer for unsupported files
-USB Video out
And the biggest thing was updates to the latest build (7.8), because you either have to wait years to get the stupid thing, or you just never get it. WP8 seems to have solved that issue, but it's a big thing for 7.x
There is significantly more homebrew than apps that can be pirated too... So no, WP8 is not perfect out of the box yet.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
IMHO there is stil need for custom roms with WP8. This system for many might need to be changed. For example (I had Lumia 920 but beeing annoyed I've sold it) People Hub. I had Facebook account and LinkedIIn configured and connected with Microsoft Account. Hopefully People Hub allows me to display only those people from my Outlook Account with photos of them from LinkedIn or Facebook. That's good. Where is the problem - mail app which seems not to use People Hub filtering and after I've started writing somebody's email it was trying to suggest me all of the people from my linkedin and facebook. Facebook is a toy for me, email is a tool for work. I dont's wanna havve facebook contacts in my email. What's more - I don't wan't to see non skype contacts on my skype list. How to solve it ? Only custom rom may help with modified People Hub service.
dansus72 said:
So WP8 has a file explorer?
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Click to collapse
if you're not being sarcastic, and really asking- i'm taking no offense of malice either way, just answering
no, there is no file explorer. this is hotly debated over and over again as to wether its a needed feature or just a 'gimmie' app on other platforms. some even argue that a file explorer on wp8 makes it insecure. whatever.
i'm seeing fewer and fewer posts here on xda pertaining to wp. even the extremely optimistic wpcentral forum is turning a little more 'real' since MWC turned into a nokia-only festival for wp.
anyway, i'm getting sidetracked. hope i answered your question nicely
I've always trusted the devs on this forum and frankly I have no reason to doubt any of them. But I've always wondered how safe and private custom ROMs actually are? How can we know there's no data leaking or a backdoor like we've seen with BLU, Huawei and ZTE sending info to China? How can we trust these devs with all the personal information on our devices? They could have put anything in the code to do anything with them.
I know that sounds like a paranoïd rant ha ha!
But really, given I'm not a dev myself and that, even if I was, checking the code could be really really long, how can we really know?
Prosis said:
I've always trusted the devs on this forum and frankly I have no reason to doubt any of them. But I've always wondered how safe and private custom ROMs actually are? How can we know there's no data leaking or a backdoor like we've seen with BLU, Huawei and ZTE sending info to China? How can we trust these devs with all the personal information on our devices? They could have put anything in the code to do anything with them.
I know that sounds like a paranoïd rant ha ha!
But really, given I'm not a dev myself and that, even if I was, checking the code could be really really long, how can we really know?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How sure are you about stock rom not sending any information to non trusted parties?
pijes said:
How sure are you about stock rom not sending any information to non trusted parties?
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I was expecting that reply especially with the BLU, Huawei and ZTE example and it is absolutely true, we can never be 100% sure.
The difference I see though is that these companies are actually accountable for that sort of thing as is Cyanogen given how big it has grown. If Motorola/Lenovo did such a thing, their brand would suffer and their sales would drop.
But that is not the case for anonymous devs or teams. Plus, it would be hard to hold them accountable (and we'd get the usual and invalid 'they installed it so it's their fault' thing).
You will never be sure, but with all people here using customs roms since several months, with a lot of "power users" / geeks / dev, if there was a big issue regarding security, we should be already aware.
In the other hand i think all these company selling phones are using back doors on their stock roms (especially chinese ones) , sometimes it's the reseller who reflash a rom with malwares ( some resellers on amazon). We know Blu, huawei/honor, Zte, but Lenovo was doing it on their computer ( http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/now-three-pre-installed-malwares-lenovo-laptops/ )
I add that custom roms and custom kernel (especially squid2 if i read release history) are more recently security patched than stock.
fablebreton said:
You will never be sure, but with all people here using customs roms since several months, with a lot of "power users" / geeks / dev, if there was a big issue regarding security, we should be already aware.
In the other hand i think all these company selling phones are using back doors on their stock roms (especially chinese ones) , sometimes it's the reseller who reflash a rom with malwares ( some resellers on amazon). We know Blu, huawei/honor, Zte, but Lenovo was doing it on their computer ( http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/now-three-pre-installed-malwares-lenovo-laptops/ )
I add that custom roms and custom kernel (especially squid2 if i read release history) are more recently security patched than stock.
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Click to collapse
Excellent point (I didn't know that Lenovo did that... Jesus....)
So you would trust custom ROMs over stock?
Prosis said:
Excellent point (I didn't know that Lenovo did that... Jesus....)
So you would trust custom ROMs over stock?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Currently yes. The versions and patch level make the point for me. and i havent had any security issue so far.
Prosis said:
I've always trusted the devs on this forum and frankly I have no reason to doubt any of them. But I've always wondered how safe and private custom ROMs actually are? How can we know there's no data leaking or a backdoor like we've seen with BLU, Huawei and ZTE sending info to China? How can we trust these devs with all the personal information on our devices? They could have put anything in the code to do anything with them.
I know that sounds like a paranoïd rant ha ha!
But really, given I'm not a dev myself and that, even if I was, checking the code could be really really long, how can we really know?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of roms are prerooted, you can run Network Log on them and see if they connect to dodgy IPs behind your back. Firewalls can also log traffic.
minimale_ldz said:
Most of roms are prerooted, you can run Network Log on them and see if they connect to dodgy IPs behind your back. Firewalls can also log traffic.
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That's a very good point! The same as on Linux distributions.
Can this be done on Cyanogenmod too or I have to root it?
Prosis said:
That's a very good point! The same as on Linux distributions.
Can this be done on Cyanogenmod too or I have to root it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AFAIK CM comes with root as well (you may need to turn it on in Developer's settings).