Related
Ok, there is plenty of speculation on Android and can we run it on our HTC devices, etc. I have started this new thread dedicated to the MSM7K Kernel release, and what it will take to get this running on our phones.
I would like this thread to become a resource, rather than just general theorizing. For example: "I know we need driver X to run Y on HTC device Foo." What I am not looking for: "Android is so l33t, plez tell me how to run on my Zaurus kthx". The difference is that the first example is constructive, and adds to the discussion.
The signal to noise ratio on the Android gGroup is terrible, and mostly consists of wild theorizing, self-promotion, and arguing. I have a feeling it will improve, but for now I'd like to discuss this subject away from all the SuperKoolNewAndroidForum.com forums.
My Goals for this Thread:
Establish what is known to work, and what the kernel is sorely lacking.
a) I know we have booted Linux on HTC devices, has it been done on the most current devices? (please link to thread/proof)
b) What are the main major roadblocks preventing Linux from being run on more HTC devices? (Obscure hardware design, bricking phone)
Compile a list of needed and helpful software for loading Android: bootloaders, useful Linux tools, filesystem images
Provide continual updates with photos/logs as we (hopefully) make progress
My bet is that the current 'gPhone' in the videos is an HTC device not unlike yours or mine. [link to my blog] IMHO, the hype over 'When will the first gPhone be released' is irrelevant, as Google has been working closely with HTC and Qualcomm for a long time -- and the specs for Android are so low, Google clearly expects to be able to run Android on existing hardware, without needing new hardware technology.
Of course, the tools and software we need are all in existence already, someone at Google is doing a good job of keeping their mouth shut. Therefore this is not an impossible task, just difficult, but I know you xda-hackers like a challenge! So, Let's go!!
Charles
FYI: I am aware XDA was founded with the Xanadux project, so this should be the perfect place to hack us a gPhone. I've also browsed threads, read the Wiki, studied up on the Hermes Linux project -- but things seem to have died since Feb 07, I'm hoping this latest development with Android will spark interest again, and we will be able to run Linux on our current, most powerful devices. I could make educated guesses about the state of the Xanadux project, but I'd rather hear it from XDA devs themselves who are most familiar.
Reserved for knowledge & files
Ok, I'll start:
Android.com *Now redirects (finally) to OpenHandsetAlliance.com
Download Android SDK
Official Android Dev gGroup
Here's what I know:
Announcement of the Kernel on the ARM Linux Mailing List
GIT Repository
gGroup for MSM7K Kernel Issues
[credit to Brian Swetland, Linux Kernel Lead, Android Project]
gGroups thread: Compiling C Binaries for Android
Filesystem dump from Android running on SDK Emulator: gGroups thread discussion | Benno's blog post with files
reserved for Android installation instructions
[ reserved ] Hopefully we will get this far
polyrhythmic said:
I've also browsed threads, read the Wiki, studied up on the Hermes Linux project -- but things seem to have died since Feb 07
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are interested in the facts, and not some google-related hype, please
check this one
http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/UniversalStatus
My Android News blog (now on Russian language)
English version cooming soon.
http://android.my1.ru
Now it is under construction
Much thanks cr2!
n00bs are everywhere I'm trying not to be one of them.
I have been doing a lot of reading, things have been quiet on the Kaiser front but that soon will change. I just read the #htc-linux logs from the past few days, see you there after work!
Charles
(sent from das Kaiser)
WoW!
Is this going to be like getting Linux OS on my Trinity? I like the browser but a lot of the apps in teh demo vid rely too much on 3G. Data rates in the UK are prohibitive at the moment so I stick with WIFI
welcome to join AndroidPort group
hello:
you are welcome to join the AndroidPort group, where the
idea is to make Linux and Android work on a real or virtual
hardware phone platform.
looks like you are quite advanced in this area. we would
welcome your presence and expert knowledge.
have a look at our website. you will find a lot of
information for this subject in 1 place.
AndroidPort
http://groups.google.com/group/androidport
Aaron
Cool initiative, will write about it in my next News collection.
polyrhythmic said:
Ok, there is plenty of speculation on Android and can we run it on our HTC devices, etc. I have started this new thread dedicated to the MSM7K Kernel release, and what it will take to get this running on our phones.
I would like this thread to become a resource, rather than just general theorizing. For example: "I know we need driver X to run Y on HTC device Foo." What I am not looking for: "Android is so l33t, plez tell me how to run on my Zaurus kthx". The difference is that the first example is constructive, and adds to the discussion.
The signal to noise ratio on the Android gGroup is terrible, and mostly consists of wild theorizing, self-promotion, and arguing. I have a feeling it will improve, but for now I'd like to discuss this subject away from all the SuperKoolNewAndroidForum.com forums.
My Goals for this Thread:
Establish what is known to work, and what the kernel is sorely lacking.
a) I know we have booted Linux on HTC devices, has it been done on the most current devices? (please link to thread/proof)
b) What are the main major roadblocks preventing Linux from being run on more HTC devices? (Obscure hardware design, bricking phone)
Compile a list of needed and helpful software for loading Android: bootloaders, useful Linux tools, filesystem images
Provide continual updates with photos/logs as we (hopefully) make progress
My bet is that the current 'gPhone' in the videos is an HTC device not unlike yours or mine. [link to my blog] IMHO, the hype over 'When will the first gPhone be released' is irrelevant, as Google has been working closely with HTC and Qualcomm for a long time -- and the specs for Android are so low, Google clearly expects to be able to run Android on existing hardware, without needing new hardware technology.
Of course, the tools and software we need are all in existence already, someone at Google is doing a good job of keeping their mouth shut. Therefore this is not an impossible task, just difficult, but I know you xda-hackers like a challenge! So, Let's go!!
Charles
FYI: I am aware XDA was founded with the Xanadux project, so this should be the perfect place to hack us a gPhone. I've also browsed threads, read the Wiki, studied up on the Hermes Linux project -- but things seem to have died since Feb 07, I'm hoping this latest development with Android will spark interest again, and we will be able to run Linux on our current, most powerful devices. I could make educated guesses about the state of the Xanadux project, but I'd rather hear it from XDA devs themselves who are most familiar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
where is the video?
anheuer said:
where is the video?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YouTube Your best friend , along with google obviously
Hey,
As most of you know, I am the sole owner of touch innovation. I have done alot to this website (and I still have more to come). THe problem is, over the next half year I have alot of work ahead of me, that affects my future. But I don't particulary want to go into it.
I want someone that can look after and keep the site going for up to 6 months. I know you're thinking "What's the point in this, what do I get out of it?". Well, you get experience.
You'll get a weekly number of emails, submissions etc from people that use the website, you can monitor these, and help out there questions.
You can add programs from here etc.
Why Am I asking this?
I have spent months and months of coding this website (considering the website is only 4 months old, it's a lot of work). And I've hit a niche in the market, people want a website like this, and I am supplying them with one, but I need it to be updated while I am gone. Maybe some marketing (aka advertising) as well, so everything is running peak, and more users are coming.
This is a non-profit organisation, I make no money out of it.
I will pay the guy at the end (maybe), dependant on how much they have done to the website. And I want them to take it upon them self to make any adjustments. The site will potentially be yours for the half year (I will be checking up on it, and If there are some changes that are iffy, I will contact you about it).
It's good experience, and maybe helping me + the community out for a while.
Thanks guys,
-------------------
Okay, another idea, A team of people can request to be part of the team, and keep the site running well and keep it updated for the time I'm gone
Touch Innovation team (to-be's):
nir36
jackkkkk
Kenshino
jdiperla
AkshayGenius
Hannigan174
churka
Thanks for anyone who helps in advance, I will be up for giving a little price tag at the end, dependant on whether they've applied effort to maintain the site
No one?
I think it would be awesome to have this opportunity but I have no experience in html coding. Just the basics.
I thought I had replied to this :/
Erm, you dont need any html coding skills. You just need to know how to keep a website updated (using xda, and others) using my simple but easy and clever admin panel. Also advertise to keep hits up etc.
Napbree, I would gladly take this website, but i'm MEGAbusy with studies and work.
I suggest that instead of granting this website to another "sole" person, you create users in your admin panel and grant them to a few people who will keep it updated. I build websites and I can tell you that there's no way i'd be able to handle even one of those i've built, myself.
If a group of people are willing to help, I will be one of them.
I'll also try creating commercial opportunities for the website - profitwise.
I'd usually say "This is not the place to post these kind of posts.. use the Q&A section".. which comes naturally nowadays..
but considering the importance of this... I think we need this thread bumped up until you manage to get what you wish for.
Yes, that would be great. You've given me an awesome idea. A team of people that can mointor and keep the site up and running well, and content updated etc.
I'll start making a list of people who want to become part of the team
And if you could get a commercial opportunity, that would be amazing. I'd be up for selling it as well (maybe). It's just I want to keep the site of my hands for a while. Because my dad died only a week ago, and i'm entering a state of depression, and I need to get out into the world and keep myself busy.
Thanks
Someone?
I really like this site, and would like to see it continue.
Nathan has done such great job on developing this site, it would be shame, to see it gone waste!
So anyone who has motivation and some time to take this site under ownership, please contact nathan!
Ps. I'm one of admins of this site, and can tell you that it's really easy to update site, because of the nathan's clever admin panel. I would do it myself if i had the time, but my studies and and other projects takes too much time.
All friends of this site, let's get this thread bumped until we get some help for nathan
Firstly.. i'm sorry. Be well.
Secondly, I have some connections.. I can't promise anything but i might be able to get some advertisments going.. we'll see how it goes.
Also, if manage to get some time off .. sometime.. I'll create flash banners and put them up.
COUNT ME IN.
Thank you allevant
And nir36 thanks again, that would be mucho appreciated! very generous
I'm willing to help...
But I'm not sure if I got any use thou as I got no tech experiences or running a website.
My best experience is being a gaming forum moderator and basic computer/pda knowledge.
But, if you think I'm a good canadiate please let me know as I would like to help in anyways.
You don't really need experience in running a site. As long as you can spend some time on the admin panel to add content, it's all good.
I've added you to the to-be team , hope you don't mind.
Thanks! future for the site is looking brighter this is just a bump post
I'll bump your bump
Dear Napbree,
I am an Application Consultant and actually my job consists of making corporate websites for government entities.
Websites I've done include (not exhaustive list)
http://www.infocommsingapore.sg/industry/
and
http://www.infocommsingapore.sg/games
Same domain but totally different things.
So do count me in if you need help running the website.
I am certified in JAVA (Have Sun Certified Java Programmer and Developer certs) and am proficient in both JSP and Applications.
Currently I am writing CMS based websites using PHP, CSS, HTML and Javascript.
I can definitely write some code to add more cool functionality to your website
I'll bumb your bumbing my bumb
Hi Kenshino,
Application consultant heh, nice!
At the moment, I will be able to code up new sections for the site, for example, the new update that will come sooner or later (when I have time to finish it), has live submission, which means users can instantly add applications, as long as it applies with a few of my automated checks.
But if you have any ideas, and you want to code them up, you can definately! But I wouldn't be able to give source code, but you can code it seperately and then I can incoroporate it nicely
Thank you lots for your interest
Nathan
Hey, I volunteer too. I am a PC administrator and had had success in hosting my own sites in the past as well as prior administration duties to games like http://www.swcombine.com
Sounds great
Added you to the list, I will contact you all in the future, once I have a nice big list of contributors
Thanks
let's keep this on top.
Hi Guys,
I have come to you with great news: Pebbles, the remote control software, goes (probably) open source. At the moment, I am in contact with Brad Myers, the former head of the development team involved in Pebbles. The Project has been stopped a long time ago, but I am trying to convince him, that a release of the source code to open source under a GPL License is way better than simply abandoning such an excellent project.
I also told him that the best programmers concerning Windows Mobile Devices can be found here. So I hope that there are some experiences programmers with a bit free time in here. I can deliver all necessary graphical elements as I am familiar with this subject for over nine years now.
A quick information for all of you who do not know what Pebbles is:
It consists of some sub-tools, for example Shortcutter, which allows you to define your own buttons. These can send keystrokes and commands to the PC via Bluetooth ActiveSync. Basically, it is a remote control tool.
Furthermore, there is Scribbles, a tool which is used when you are holding a presentation. You write on your device and it will generate an overlay onto your presentation.
And there is also RemoteCommander, a kinda-VNC which also supports Scribble.
There are some more, to be found here.
Hopefully there are some programmers willing to put their efforts and experience into this great project. I am sure that the base of the software is well-written, as it still runs smoothly and without a single problem on my current hardware specs, which are Windows 7 (x64) on 8GB RAM and an HTC Touch Diamond with Windows Mobile 6.1.
For any further questions do not hesitate to post in here. If the project is opened on Sourceforge, I also can give you my ICQ and E-Mail details if needed.
I am looking for your responses, please also do vote the poll.
Regards,
Zuzler a.k.a. Stefan
Below, you can find an excerpt of my recent contact with Brad Myers from the School of Computer Science in Pittsburgh:
That is an excellent idea. We will look into the legal issues and get back to you. It will probably take a few weeks to work out.
Are there lots of windows mobile devices still? Does software for old devices work on newer ones?
Any recommendations for where to put our source code so people can work on it? Like sourceforge or something? What do people mostly use?
Brad Myers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My reply on this was:
Yes, there is a whole new generation out there. I for example got an HTC Touch Diamond, which has a resolution of 640x480 pixels, over 500 mhz and 4 GB storage. It has a touchscreen (it has just four keys, e.g. for answering calls and going back to home), GPS ans WiFi support. My Operating System is Windows Mobile 6.1 whereas my regular OS (i.e. at home) is Windows 7 (64 bit), and Pebbles runs smoothly on it. So I think Pebbles already has the best start as there are no OS issues with Windows as far as I am aware of.
For more information on the GPL you can have a look at the wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License). On the bottom there are more links to the original text. I would recommend he GPL Version 3, which is the latest one.
Sourceforge would also have been the platform of my choice. I will create a topic at the xda-developers.com forums to collect peoples responses on this subject.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reserving this post for future updates.
I am interested in this. I'm using an old Qtek 9100 (HTC Wizard, OMAP180 200MHz) upgraded to Windows Mobile Professional 6.5.
I'm already using SallingClicker which offers similar features, but I'm always willing to try something new...
Hi,
yes, Salling Clicker is a similar tool, it offers many features but the knowledge you have to have on order to create a working script is way too much.
I hope that there are some programmers here, which are willing to support this project. Then we also can create a wishlist, new features which should be added in 'our' first release.
Regards
An open source project would be awesome!
Looked at the specs of the original program, and it looks nice! Make it up to date, implement full touchscreen support, and this would be a winner!
I hope that I will receive a confirmtion by the end of this week.
One problem however is, that I do not have any experience in coding, the only thing I can do is graphics.
So my plea to all of you coders out there is: When time has come please have a look at the source code and tell us, if you can help us.
Maybe we also can create an "award system" - users request features, when they are implemented they can donate to the developers.
Maybe a mod can move this thread to the new created subforum "Windows software development"?
Regards,
Zuzler
I'm really looking forward to this software! It is bookmarked and I hope that we will have a nice new version...
This is me: college kid, no developing experience whatsoever (unless you could a basic HTML course in like 9th grade... lol), relatively intelligent, interested in technology.
What do I need to learn?
I found a "java 101" article to read here: Learn Java from the ground up - JavaWorld
Is android just Java or is there any other kind of language..? I've heard something about C++? or is that part of Java?
As you can tell, I'm a noob lol.
Then I read that I need Eclipse (what does that do again?), which one should I get (I'm on a Mac): Eclipse IDE for Java EE Developers, Eclipse IDE for Java Developers, or Eclipse Classic 3.6?
Is this a bad idea considering I know nothing? Like am in way over my head?
Any other ideas or links anyone can share?
I made this same post on a different forum, and someone told me that XDA was a great place to learn programming and such.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
Oh and can I program without a problem from OS X or should I use bootcamp and do it all under Windows 7?
This is me: high school kid who is a noob Java programmer.
1. Learn Java. That's what Android apps are written in (I think).
2. C++ is a different language. Don't think it's of use here.
3. Eclipse for Java Dev.
4. Embrace your Mac.
I'm in much the same boat you are. I went and grabbed a book called, "Android Application Development" from my local book store tonight (oreilly.com). I am not endorsing the book yet as I'm only a few pages in and it was the only Android book at the store. There was not a single book on Java. I'll be turning to the many many web sites available for that until I get a solid recommendation for a book from someone.
The only thing I've ever done that's even remotely close is built SQL databases, reports and queries which I now manage as a cardiac researcher. I have no classes or anything else useful other than I know my way around PCs enough to build them and install my own OS's.
The advice in the book for the dev environment is:
1. JDK 5 or 6 and the book says that OSX comes with 5.
2. Eclipse IDE for Java Developers for your OS. Get the latest version (which defaulted as such for me for Vista 64).
3. The Android SDK.
After the above, there are some steps to take a look at on the Android SDK site. Follow those and read it all. I'm pretty sure I'm just a person of average intelligence and I think I have a handle on getting to where I can start working and the Hello World bit seems to make sense right now. We'll see how things go as I learn more of the Java syntax.
Good luck!
I would love any advice on sites/books for a non-programmer to start to get a grip on Java and creating an Android app in general. I have some plans for some specific medical uses for my job and I have always been interested in writing programs. Seems like a great time to start.
For Java, a good place to start (other than the Sun site itself) is JavaRanch. I'm too new to post links, but the URL is easy to figure out, and a quick search would turn it up as well. The site has lots of information, links to book reviews for Java, forums and so on. It was a good resource when I was studying Java in college!
Good luck!
nebulosity said:
For Java, a good place to start (other than the Sun site itself) is JavaRanch. I'm too new to post links, but the URL is easy to figure out, and a quick search would turn it up as well. The site has lots of information, links to book reviews for Java, forums and so on. It was a good resource when I was studying Java in college!
Good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks much! I found an Intro to Programming with Java class at the local community college here but it doesn't start until Sept. =/ That site looks good though, hopefully I can find a book that seems to fit.
(edit: the following assumes you've more or less mastered Java already; I really don't know what to recommend for someone who's trying to learn Java AND Android programming simultaneously. I suspect part of the reason for the lack of books for THAT niche is due to the fact that it's more or less impossible to take any programming class in college that doesn't either involve Java or have it as a non-negotiable prerequisite, even if Java per se isn't directly relevant. It's just part of the baseline cultural background noise).
If you buy nothing else, buy "Beginning Android 2" by Mark Murphy. If you're not totally broke, buy "Pro Android 2" by Sayed Hashimi while you're at it. Don't try to skip the first and go straight to the second... there's a lot of medium-level stuff that's covered thoroughly in "Beginning" that's barely touched upon in "Pro".
Those two books aren't great if you like to jump around and learn things in random order as need arises, but they're probably the gold standard right now for books that comprehensively teach Android Programming in a sensible order from start to finish.
"Professional Android 2 Application Development" by Reto Meier is a great complement to those books, because it IS more of a "jump around and grab important details as the need to learn them arises" book. I refer to all three on a regular basis.
"Hello, Android" is one of those books that you'll probably never look at again two weeks after you first start reading it... but if cash isn't really a problem, it's a nice tutorial for brand new Android developers.
Content-wise, the pdf commonsware.com books by Mark Murphy (yeah, the same Mark Murphy who wrote the Apress book) are probably the best of all, because they literally ARE updated regularly as typos & bugs get found (every book has 'em, few books ever usefully fix 'em) and new versions of Android get released. The problem is, unless you have an ebook reader, let's be honest... ebooks kind of suck. Sometimes, a real book is nice to have. So, I'd say Murphy's books kind of break new ground between online articles and real books... they go into a lot more depth, more coherently, than any one online source of info about Android programming... but unfortunately, because they're ebooks, they're about as pleasant to casually read as those same online articles.
18 months from now, when Android tablets with 1280x720(*) displays or better are common and relatively cheap, eBooks are going to be the norm for Android books going forward, because THEN they'll let you have the best of all worlds -- the coherent editing and comprehensive content of "real" books, the up-to-date accuracy of the best online sources of info, and a reading experience that doesn't kind of suck. Five years from now (when the eBook experience has finally become civilized), I'll be shocked if programming books even exist anymore in printed form, aside from maybe books like "${Language}: How to Program" that deal with topics that don't really change radically from month to month and are more or less universal as college textbooks. Programming and system administration are the kind of topics that are really too volatile for paper books, and for they most part they've ALWAYS been... there just hasn't really been a civilized alternative to them. IMHO, Android tablets will be what finally make it a civilized experience, because for the first time normal people (meaning developers who don't work for huge corporate entities like Amazon and Sony) will be able to develop ebook apps with their own UI experiments. Right now, all we have are devices optimized for reading mass-market top-20 fiction... devices that largely suck for the specific task of reading (and referring to) programming books (where you generally flip around a lot, and 700ms latency every time you change a page will drive you insane in 3 minutes).
So, in summary, here's my recommended buying order:
If cash is abundant and you want a nice intro: Hello, Android (latest edition)
Absolutely mandatory: Beginning Android 2
Equally mandatory, but maybe a few weeks later: Pro Android 2
then, it's a toss-up between a commonsware "Warescription" for Murphy's other books (which gives you access to the latest and greatest versions of them for a year, plus perpetual ownership the last copies you downloaded before the year ran out) and Meier's book (if you really hate ebooks). Personally, I'd recommend the Warescription AND Meier's book
(*)1280x720 is the rock-bottom minimum resolution viable for comfortably reading an O'Reilly-Manning-sized book in pdf form two pages at a time. 800x480 is just a hair below the resolution you really need to comfortably read ONE O'Reilly-Manning sized page at a time.
bitbang3r said:
<snip>
18 months from now, when Android tablets with 1280x720(*) displays or better are common and relatively cheap, <snip>
So, in summary, here's my recommended buying order:
If cash is abundant and you want a nice intro: Hello, Android (latest edition)
Absolutely mandatory: Beginning Android 2
Equally mandatory, but maybe a few weeks later: Pro Android 2
then, it's a toss-up between a commonsware "Warescription" for Murphy's other books (which gives you access to the latest and greatest versions of them for a year, plus perpetual ownership the last copies you downloaded before the year ran out) and Meier's book (if you really hate ebooks). Personally, I'd recommend the Warescription AND Meier's book
(*)1280x720 is the rock-bottom minimum resolution viable for comfortably reading an O'Reilly-Manning-sized book in pdf form two pages at a time. 800x480 is just a hair below the resolution you really need to comfortably read ONE O'Reilly-Manning sized page at a time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bolded above is the exact reason I am learning. I need to be able to write my own app for the upcoming tablets. We are planning to move a lot of document work to tablets over the next few years in the medical industry and the existing product lines are hilariously and prohibitively expensive. Since I already work extensively with our privacy laws and and regulations, I'm fairly sure that I can get a working solution for us over the next three years instead of investing millions of dollars in proprietary systems.
Thank you SO much for this advice. I'm ordering Beginning Android tonight and will pick up the other suggestions about halfway through the first book. My class will start in September. If you happen to have any other suggestions that might ease my way into programming concepts in general I would also appreciate those. Again, thanks a ton for the great advice.
Yeah i hear ya man. I took Java Programming in my senior year of highschool and got an A in it. So i know im capable for doing android, but im still finding my way around. hopefully one day i can actually do it! I hope!
bitbang3r said:
(edit: the following assumes you've more or less mastered Java already; I really don't know what to recommend for someone who's trying to learn Java AND Android programming simultaneously. I suspect part of the reason for the lack of books for THAT niche is due to the fact that it's more or less impossible to take any programming class in college that doesn't either involve Java or have it as a non-negotiable prerequisite, even if Java per se isn't directly relevant. It's just part of the baseline cultural background noise).
If you buy nothing else, buy "Beginning Android 2" by Mark Murphy. If you're not totally broke, buy "Pro Android 2" by Sayed Hashimi while you're at it. Don't try to skip the first and go straight to the second... there's a lot of medium-level stuff that's covered thoroughly in "Beginning" that's barely touched upon in "Pro".
Those two books aren't great if you like to jump around and learn things in random order as need arises, but they're probably the gold standard right now for books that comprehensively teach Android Programming in a sensible order from start to finish.
"Professional Android 2 Application Development" by Reto Meier is a great complement to those books, because it IS more of a "jump around and grab important details as the need to learn them arises" book. I refer to all three on a regular basis.
"Hello, Android" is one of those books that you'll probably never look at again two weeks after you first start reading it... but if cash isn't really a problem, it's a nice tutorial for brand new Android developers.
Content-wise, the pdf commonsware.com books by Mark Murphy (yeah, the same Mark Murphy who wrote the Apress book) are probably the best of all, because they literally ARE updated regularly as typos & bugs get found (every book has 'em, few books ever usefully fix 'em) and new versions of Android get released. The problem is, unless you have an ebook reader, let's be honest... ebooks kind of suck. Sometimes, a real book is nice to have. So, I'd say Murphy's books kind of break new ground between online articles and real books... they go into a lot more depth, more coherently, than any one online source of info about Android programming... but unfortunately, because they're ebooks, they're about as pleasant to casually read as those same online articles.
18 months from now, when Android tablets with 1280x720(*) displays or better are common and relatively cheap, eBooks are going to be the norm for Android books going forward, because THEN they'll let you have the best of all worlds -- the coherent editing and comprehensive content of "real" books, the up-to-date accuracy of the best online sources of info, and a reading experience that doesn't kind of suck. Five years from now (when the eBook experience has finally become civilized), I'll be shocked if programming books even exist anymore in printed form, aside from maybe books like "${Language}: How to Program" that deal with topics that don't really change radically from month to month and are more or less universal as college textbooks. Programming and system administration are the kind of topics that are really too volatile for paper books, and for they most part they've ALWAYS been... there just hasn't really been a civilized alternative to them. IMHO, Android tablets will be what finally make it a civilized experience, because for the first time normal people (meaning developers who don't work for huge corporate entities like Amazon and Sony) will be able to develop ebook apps with their own UI experiments. Right now, all we have are devices optimized for reading mass-market top-20 fiction... devices that largely suck for the specific task of reading (and referring to) programming books (where you generally flip around a lot, and 700ms latency every time you change a page will drive you insane in 3 minutes).
So, in summary, here's my recommended buying order:
If cash is abundant and you want a nice intro: Hello, Android (latest edition)
Absolutely mandatory: Beginning Android 2
Equally mandatory, but maybe a few weeks later: Pro Android 2
then, it's a toss-up between a commonsware "Warescription" for Murphy's other books (which gives you access to the latest and greatest versions of them for a year, plus perpetual ownership the last copies you downloaded before the year ran out) and Meier's book (if you really hate ebooks). Personally, I'd recommend the Warescription AND Meier's book
(*)1280x720 is the rock-bottom minimum resolution viable for comfortably reading an O'Reilly-Manning-sized book in pdf form two pages at a time. 800x480 is just a hair below the resolution you really need to comfortably read ONE O'Reilly-Manning sized page at a time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, thanks a ton! I'll be sure I pick up those 4 things later on.
Since I wrote the original post in this thread a couple days ago, I've spent some time trying to learn Java. As a total noob to programming, this has proven to be quite a challenge. Just about every book or eBook I see (A couple "java for dummies", "eclipse for dummies", "thinking in java", and I'm about halfway through the free sample of VTC's Java: Introduction to the Java Programming Language, which is an audio/video presentation thing) says that prior programming knowledge is necessary or that I should have some basis in C or something like that.
Also, there's command line as well as all of the different IDEs.. I'm assuming that these are all mainly interchangeable or what?
Should I just continue trying to learn Java and once I think I've figured it out just move on to Android or do you guys think I won't be able to get by without taking some sort of a programming class in school?
Thanks for all your help guys! By the way, how long do you think it might take to go from a noob to someone who can actually write an Android app?
for those of us that might be a bit hard up on cash http://developer.android.com/index.html
has a wealth of free information and sample programs. CHECK IT OUT!
Hello all, nice conversation that hasn't been diverted yet so I think I shall make a small contribution to this.
Programming courses and books that you can buy are a good way of learning but is not always an option due to mainly money constraints luckily we have this thing called internet , it has never been easier to learn programming than it is at the moment the plethora of resources available is absolutely incredible the only problem might be in finding things in a structured and well ordered way.
One of the tricks I've used in the past is to look up books that either get recommended or you like the look of and then find the index listing for that book which is usually given away free by sites selling books, then all you need to do is Google for the given topics =o)
As for learning Java to get started on the path to Android application building I think the biggest issue most people will be facing is that they find Java books but none of them seem to be making anything exciting, the problem is to make exciting things you really need to know a fair bit more about developing.
So that having been said I think as a short check list for someone looking to go from zero programming experience to developing their first android apps I would recommend something like this:
1. Go and read about Object Oriented Programming model
You won't fully grasp all the concepts straight away without having done any programming but it is good idea to get this stuff into your head straight away as it will start making more sense once you've learned a bit and then makes it easier to later on come back to this and get the lovely eureka! moments. Good place to start could be something as simple as Wikipedia.
2. Write console applications
By this I mean little java applications that you will be running from the command line on your computer. This is where most people I think get discouraged as they can't see how this relates to Android development.
Forget about graphics, user input, mobile devices etc for now, you can learn so much by writing these:
-Basic types & Variables
-Arrays
-Basic arithmetic and working with strings
-Loop structures
-Logic such as IF statements
-Creating new classes and objects
-Calling functions and returning values
Now all of the above will be used over and over and over again no matter whatever you are writing and the good thing is that it can all be learned by learning 1 additional non android specific thing: how to print out text to command line.
A good example application that you can write that uses most of the above would be a simple application you run from the command line, it fills an array with randomly generated integers between 1 and 20, lets say it generates 10 of them and then displays them to you in the order of smallest to highest.
No user input required, no graphics required etc, its not the most exciting thing but it will get you using all the basic building blocks.
3. Revisit the object oriented model
Do this again as it is pretty vital you understand it and after completing step 2 it will start making a whole lot more sense.
4. Install Eclipse and complete the Hello World tutorial on the android site:
There are plenty of guides on how to install the Android SDK and Eclipse environment and the best ones are from Google themselves. Follow them, if something doesn't work, try and figure out why it doesn't and then search for it, chances are that someone has already figured out why and you've just missed something.
Then complete this tutorial: http://developer.android.com/resources/tutorials/hello-world.html
5. Modify the Hello World tutorial:
Don't get ahead of yourself and start writing your killer app now, start slowly modifying the Hello World tutorial, learn how to display a piece of text from your application.
Now do everything you did with Step 2 but do it all on the Android app.
Visit this list but don't get too stuck with it:
http://developer.android.com/resources/faq/commontasks.html
6. Complete the Notepad tutorial:
If you've blindly followed my steps/similar steps this will be difficult and you should spend a good while dissecting all of it. The tutorial is actually excellent and touches on everything you pretty much need to write a fully functioning application. Don't go for the way of downloading sample source blindly following the tutorial, compiling in the end and then checking this as done.
I bet there are million things you won't understand about it so just keep going through it line by line and when you understand how it works, make it your own, start adding features to it, just silly things but do it =o)
7. Read, Read, Read & Start small.
You should now be at a point where you can start thinking about why you originally wanted to develop for android, if its a simple app you wanted to make start reading about topics that are specific to your app. Also this is a perfect time now to pick up an android application development book, up until this point all the free information has been as good as if not better than books.
If you want to make a game...be prepared to be spending atleast 2-3 times as long as you have to this point before it becomes even viable.
And final piece: Start small, for your first app don't start writing a full fledged facebook killer android social networking location based interactive photo editing physics calculator, do something simple and gradually build up to bigger projects...trust me on that =o(.
Anyhoo bored at work as you can probably tell, hope the above is a good outline for someone thinking of undertaking Android development if they have no previous experience. I don't mean to put people off just be prepared to spend a LONG time with this, it's not overly difficult but if you haven't done development before the sheer amount of new concepts you will have to understand from early on and WELL is very daunting.
.FxN
1. Install required components
* For Java use the latest version
* Android SDK
Once downloaded extract the folder to one of the PATH for example E: \ android_sdk_windows
* To Eclipse used Eclipse 3.5 (Galileo)
2. Add the Android platform and other packages needed to SDK
* SDK Run Setup.exe
* In the Available Packages menu to select all the packages downloaded
* select Install Selected and then select the Accept All to accept the selected packages
* select Install Accepted , Choose Install to install packages that we want to SDK
* Set the path to the Android SDK directory, by opening the Control Panel and then click on mycomputer system or right click and select Properties. Then on the Advanced tab select Environment Variables, click Edit on the path then input the Android SDK directory path
3. Install Android Development Tools (ADT)
fxn said:
Hello all, nice conversation that hasn't been diverted yet so I think I shall make a small contribution to this.
Programming courses and books that you can buy are a good way of learning but is not always an option due to mainly money constraints luckily we have this thing called internet , it has never been easier to learn programming than it is at the moment the plethora of resources available is absolutely incredible the only problem might be in finding things in a structured and well ordered way.
One of the tricks I've used in the past is to look up books that either get recommended or you like the look of and then find the index listing for that book which is usually given away free by sites selling books, then all you need to do is Google for the given topics =o)
As for learning Java to get started on the path to Android application building I think the biggest issue most people will be facing is that they find Java books but none of them seem to be making anything exciting, the problem is to make exciting things you really need to know a fair bit more about developing.
So that having been said I think as a short check list for someone looking to go from zero programming experience to developing their first android apps I would recommend something like this:
1. Go and read about Object Oriented Programming model
You won't fully grasp all the concepts straight away without having done any programming but it is good idea to get this stuff into your head straight away as it will start making more sense once you've learned a bit and then makes it easier to later on come back to this and get the lovely eureka! moments. Good place to start could be something as simple as Wikipedia.
2. Write console applications
By this I mean little java applications that you will be running from the command line on your computer. This is where most people I think get discouraged as they can't see how this relates to Android development.
Forget about graphics, user input, mobile devices etc for now, you can learn so much by writing these:
-Basic types & Variables
-Arrays
-Basic arithmetic and working with strings
-Loop structures
-Logic such as IF statements
-Creating new classes and objects
-Calling functions and returning values
Now all of the above will be used over and over and over again no matter whatever you are writing and the good thing is that it can all be learned by learning 1 additional non android specific thing: how to print out text to command line.
A good example application that you can write that uses most of the above would be a simple application you run from the command line, it fills an array with randomly generated integers between 1 and 20, lets say it generates 10 of them and then displays them to you in the order of smallest to highest.
No user input required, no graphics required etc, its not the most exciting thing but it will get you using all the basic building blocks.
3. Revisit the object oriented model
Do this again as it is pretty vital you understand it and after completing step 2 it will start making a whole lot more sense.
4. Install Eclipse and complete the Hello World tutorial on the android site:
There are plenty of guides on how to install the Android SDK and Eclipse environment and the best ones are from Google themselves. Follow them, if something doesn't work, try and figure out why it doesn't and then search for it, chances are that someone has already figured out why and you've just missed something.
Then complete this tutorial:
5. Modify the Hello World tutorial:
Don't get ahead of yourself and start writing your killer app now, start slowly modifying the Hello World tutorial, learn how to display a piece of text from your application.
Now do everything you did with Step 2 but do it all on the Android app.
Visit this list but don't get too stuck with it:
6. Complete the Notepad tutorial:
If you've blindly followed my steps/similar steps this will be difficult and you should spend a good while dissecting all of it. The tutorial is actually excellent and touches on everything you pretty much need to write a fully functioning application. Don't go for the way of downloading sample source blindly following the tutorial, compiling in the end and then checking this as done.
I bet there are million things you won't understand about it so just keep going through it line by line and when you understand how it works, make it your own, start adding features to it, just silly things but do it =o)
7. Read, Read, Read & Start small.
You should now be at a point where you can start thinking about why you originally wanted to develop for android, if its a simple app you wanted to make start reading about topics that are specific to your app. Also this is a perfect time now to pick up an android application development book, up until this point all the free information has been as good as if not better than books.
If you want to make a game...be prepared to be spending atleast 2-3 times as long as you have to this point before it becomes even viable.
And final piece: Start small, for your first app don't start writing a full fledged facebook killer android social networking location based interactive photo editing physics calculator, do something simple and gradually build up to bigger projects...trust me on that =o(.
Anyhoo bored at work as you can probably tell, hope the above is a good outline for someone thinking of undertaking Android development if they have no previous experience. I don't mean to put people off just be prepared to spend a LONG time with this, it's not overly difficult but if you haven't done development before the sheer amount of new concepts you will have to understand from early on and WELL is very daunting.
.FxN
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh wow. This is great! Thanks a ton for taking the time to write all of that, I'm gonna go get started
I've already touched upon many of those things thanks to free ebooks and youtube tutorials and such, but now I know exactly what to do
Quick question though: what's the "notepad tutorial" ?
thanks again!
and @learnandroid, thank you as well for the instructions. i have eclipse set up now
A nice java book that I recommend is called Java Programming, comprehensive edition.
fichdak said:
Quick question though: what's the "notepad tutorial" ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't yet post links, but just Google "Android notepad tutorial" - it's the first hit.
They take you through 3 different versions of the app, each slightly more complicated than the last. Definitely worth going through if you're new.
XDA has always been a fantastic community and you guys are the reason. Thank you for the thoughtful and very much appreciated advice and help.
I'm having a great time already. I really hope I can get into the class but it's already full with a waiting list. The books, tutorials and great resources are of course great but I have always liked to do new stuff with groups. I tend to learn more with some group goals involved along with the focused study.
Thanks again guys.
http://www.linuxclassroom.com/
This guy in San Antonio started an Android programming class for 8th graders and posted all of his lesson plans online. Might be a good place to start.
fichdak said:
Quick question though: what's the "notepad tutorial" ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry forgot to post the link: http://developer.android.com/resources/tutorials/notepad/index.html
.FxN
Great Thread full of info.
I have tried learning C# and Java on my own in the past but I could never grasp the concept and gave up.
I had an opportunity to go back to school full-time with programming in mind. I started last spring taking Software Development which teaches basic concepts of programming. Now I am starting my second semester in the fall taking intro to Java and c++ followed by advanced Java and c++ in the spring .
I hope I can transfer the knowledge from school along with the info provided in this Thread to build quality android applications in the future.
Thanks
-Bri
I know it's geographically limited to a small subset of the people here, but I'm pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that UC Santa Cruz actually has courses in Android Development (part of their certificate in embedded software development curriculum). However, I think it's safe to assume that a solid background in Java (including objects and threading) is a prerequisite. Anyone who lives within sane driving distance of Silicon Valley might want to check them out...
I definitely have to agree that if you're literally just starting with Java, don't even *think* about touching Swing until you're comfortable writing console apps. It's really easy to get overwhelmed by Swing. For the most part, Android programming isn't really harder than good Swing programming... the difference is, with Swing, you can still get away with doing some things that are bad, but will kind of work anyway (like blocking operations by a UI thread). Android simply won't tolerate or allow you to even *try*. It's good in the long run (I guess), but makes writing your first few real programs a lot harder than you probably expect it to be.
For example, Android won't allow classic "Modal" dialog boxes (where everything grinds to a halt until the user clicks something). Period, end of story. You really shouldn't do it anyway, but being allowed to do it in Swing makes it easier to take your first few baby steps and see your program (sort of) work. With Swing, you can staple the shell of your program together with bad things, then fix them and make them nice once the logic is worked out. With Android, you have to Do It Right the First Time, because it won't allow you to do it any other way.
Hey guys,
today I come to you with good and bad news.
Bad news first: Flemmard decided finally, that he hasn't got enough time anymore to support and develop M10Tools fulltime.
That means, he is quitting the main development. This is very unfortunate because Flemmard and I are the only two person who actually know how to reverse engineere the *.m10 format.
Therefore I am searching a new developer now, who can take Flemmard's part over.
And here comes the good news: The next version is going to be OpenSource (most likely some kind of GPL).
(This doesn't include the upcoming Virtuous Ten Studio, only the decoder/encoder for the m10 files itself)
Now let's get to the actual search. The requirements are quite hard:
We search (Flemmard will be still here as some kind of help) one or two very experienced C# or C++ developers with the following requirements:
Very good experience in C# and/or C++
Windows dev of course
Experience with reading/writing binary data would be helpful
Experience with reverse engineering file formats would be also helpful
Good spoken english required (German would be nice too)
Communication is done via either IRC or Skype
Development uses SVN, so knowledge about SVN and how it works is quite helpful
Having a HTC phone with a sense 3.0/3.5 ROM is strongly advised. You don't totally need it, but it helps a lot
Now lets come to the tasks that needs to be done and the usual workflow
We do know everything important about the m10 file format, so the hard work is already done
But you still WILL be starring at your hexeditor four hours (no joke here), so if you don't like digging through hexcodes you are totally wrong here
This is not a halftime job. Writing such a decider/encoder requires quite a bit of spare time
Once I explained you most of the things we know about m10 formats, YOU will start writing a parser for those files. This is much trial and error.
The time will come where you understand the basics of the format. Then you need to finish that decoder/encoder and start working on the addtional things (mainly image decoding/encoding)
Image decoding: The images saved in m10 have different special file formats. We do know how to decode them. There is just ONE format that needs further research.
One last thing: Flemmard won't give out his current source code. We have to accept that.
As I am too lazy to put up another G-Forms thing, I'd just like you to answer here in that post if you are interested in becoming a main m10tools dev.
Flemmard and me had a great time developing this tool, so I guess this will repeat with the new guy(s).
Did you ever speak to THIS guy?
Dunc001 said:
Did you ever speak to THIS guy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, everyone should have a chance of getting in here if he is still interested, he can just post here
This is sad for our HTCs , I used to build some themes but HTC new m10 files are as bad as locking the bootloader!
Why the hell do they play like that?
Unfortunate that flemmard can't keep putting his time on this but we all understand that all devs do what they do here out of their passion and hobby not because they have to do it.
That being said, I will more than happy to help you guys here. I have been a c# developer since .net 1.0 and work with svn day in and day out. As far as reverse engineering goes, I haven't worked with hex editor much but I'm pretty comfortable with IL. Though I know we cant compare binaries with IL. Please pm me if you would like to know anything else.
vegetaleb said:
This is sad for our HTCs , I used to build some themes but HTC new m10 files are as bad as locking the bootloader!
Why the hell do they play like that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because they hate people like us, messing with their files prolly
I'd say : it's as bad as a locked bootloader AND closed source camera drivers
HTC is taking a piss out of Android and open source, unfortunatly their phones have the best build quality, otherwise i would own a sony or samsung phone ...
I have a large experience on C++, and free time too
---------- Post added at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 PM ----------
i lack on those three requirements
Experience with reading/writing binary data would be helpful
Experience with reverse engineering file formats would be also helpful
Having a HTC phone with a sense 3.0/3.5 ROM is strongly advised. You don't totally need it, but it helps a lot
traduz said:
I have a large experience on C++, and free time too
---------- Post added at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 PM ----------
i lack on those three requirements
Experience with reading/writing binary data would be helpful
Experience with reverse engineering file formats would be also helpful
Having a HTC phone with a sense 3.0/3.5 ROM is strongly advised. You don't totally need it, but it helps a lot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you please come to IRC? (#vts-dev on Freenode)
im a windows dev with some spare time but i cant make any promises.
i have experience reading/writing binary data but not with reversing file format.
and a spare desire z
i have been following your dev work on irc for a while
I am hoping to help!
Come to #vts-dev and #m10tools on freenode irc!
What is M10(Tools)? Can you explain?
mesaj said:
What is M10(Tools)? Can you explain?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
look this:
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/update-m10-file-tools-finally-released/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=13407763
I do not have experience in C. I have experience with free time at work (midnight shifts) and looking at hex code most nights. I would love to help when and where I can with that portion of it. I also have an HTC EVO 3D (Sprint CDMA, not rooted, has 1.50 hboot which I am trying to bypass), an HTC Thunderbolt (Verizon & rooted & primary phone), and an old HTC HD2 which has had android and winmo, all of those are available for testing if need be.
Good to see M10Tools is coming back hope to see OSX and Sense 3.5 support soon. Thanks so much for all the work you (Diamondback) and Flemmard did and hopefully will continue. You make it easier for us to theme Sense and we are grateful for all of the work you have done for us.
sweet hopefully m10 tools will make a comeback!
Wondering if you guys ever found the extra help you were looking for? I love m10 editor