Database Users

Calling HTC Linux Geeks + Android Fans: MSM7200 Compatible Kernel Released!

Ok, there is plenty of speculation on Android and can we run it on our HTC devices, etc. I have started this new thread dedicated to the MSM7K Kernel release, and what it will take to get this running on our phones.
I would like this thread to become a resource, rather than just general theorizing. For example: "I know we need driver X to run Y on HTC device Foo." What I am not looking for: "Android is so l33t, plez tell me how to run on my Zaurus kthx". The difference is that the first example is constructive, and adds to the discussion.
The signal to noise ratio on the Android gGroup is terrible, and mostly consists of wild theorizing, self-promotion, and arguing. I have a feeling it will improve, but for now I'd like to discuss this subject away from all the SuperKoolNewAndroidForum.com forums.
My Goals for this Thread:
Establish what is known to work, and what the kernel is sorely lacking.
a) I know we have booted Linux on HTC devices, has it been done on the most current devices? (please link to thread/proof)
b) What are the main major roadblocks preventing Linux from being run on more HTC devices? (Obscure hardware design, bricking phone)
Compile a list of needed and helpful software for loading Android: bootloaders, useful Linux tools, filesystem images
Provide continual updates with photos/logs as we (hopefully) make progress
My bet is that the current 'gPhone' in the videos is an HTC device not unlike yours or mine. [link to my blog] IMHO, the hype over 'When will the first gPhone be released' is irrelevant, as Google has been working closely with HTC and Qualcomm for a long time -- and the specs for Android are so low, Google clearly expects to be able to run Android on existing hardware, without needing new hardware technology.
Of course, the tools and software we need are all in existence already, someone at Google is doing a good job of keeping their mouth shut. Therefore this is not an impossible task, just difficult, but I know you xda-hackers like a challenge! So, Let's go!!
Charles
FYI: I am aware XDA was founded with the Xanadux project, so this should be the perfect place to hack us a gPhone. I've also browsed threads, read the Wiki, studied up on the Hermes Linux project -- but things seem to have died since Feb 07, I'm hoping this latest development with Android will spark interest again, and we will be able to run Linux on our current, most powerful devices. I could make educated guesses about the state of the Xanadux project, but I'd rather hear it from XDA devs themselves who are most familiar.

Reserved for knowledge & files
Ok, I'll start:
Android.com *Now redirects (finally) to OpenHandsetAlliance.com
Download Android SDK
Official Android Dev gGroup
Here's what I know:
Announcement of the Kernel on the ARM Linux Mailing List
GIT Repository
gGroup for MSM7K Kernel Issues
[credit to Brian Swetland, Linux Kernel Lead, Android Project]
gGroups thread: Compiling C Binaries for Android
Filesystem dump from Android running on SDK Emulator: gGroups thread discussion | Benno's blog post with files

reserved for Android installation instructions
[ reserved ] Hopefully we will get this far

polyrhythmic said:
I've also browsed threads, read the Wiki, studied up on the Hermes Linux project -- but things seem to have died since Feb 07
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are interested in the facts, and not some google-related hype, please
check this one
http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/UniversalStatus

My Android News blog (now on Russian language)
English version cooming soon.
http://android.my1.ru
Now it is under construction

Much thanks cr2!
n00bs are everywhere I'm trying not to be one of them.
I have been doing a lot of reading, things have been quiet on the Kaiser front but that soon will change. I just read the #htc-linux logs from the past few days, see you there after work!
Charles
(sent from das Kaiser)

WoW!
Is this going to be like getting Linux OS on my Trinity? I like the browser but a lot of the apps in teh demo vid rely too much on 3G. Data rates in the UK are prohibitive at the moment so I stick with WIFI

welcome to join AndroidPort group
hello:
you are welcome to join the AndroidPort group, where the
idea is to make Linux and Android work on a real or virtual
hardware phone platform.
looks like you are quite advanced in this area. we would
welcome your presence and expert knowledge.
have a look at our website. you will find a lot of
information for this subject in 1 place.
AndroidPort
http://groups.google.com/group/androidport
Aaron

Cool initiative, will write about it in my next News collection.

polyrhythmic said:
Ok, there is plenty of speculation on Android and can we run it on our HTC devices, etc. I have started this new thread dedicated to the MSM7K Kernel release, and what it will take to get this running on our phones.
I would like this thread to become a resource, rather than just general theorizing. For example: "I know we need driver X to run Y on HTC device Foo." What I am not looking for: "Android is so l33t, plez tell me how to run on my Zaurus kthx". The difference is that the first example is constructive, and adds to the discussion.
The signal to noise ratio on the Android gGroup is terrible, and mostly consists of wild theorizing, self-promotion, and arguing. I have a feeling it will improve, but for now I'd like to discuss this subject away from all the SuperKoolNewAndroidForum.com forums.
My Goals for this Thread:
Establish what is known to work, and what the kernel is sorely lacking.
a) I know we have booted Linux on HTC devices, has it been done on the most current devices? (please link to thread/proof)
b) What are the main major roadblocks preventing Linux from being run on more HTC devices? (Obscure hardware design, bricking phone)
Compile a list of needed and helpful software for loading Android: bootloaders, useful Linux tools, filesystem images
Provide continual updates with photos/logs as we (hopefully) make progress
My bet is that the current 'gPhone' in the videos is an HTC device not unlike yours or mine. [link to my blog] IMHO, the hype over 'When will the first gPhone be released' is irrelevant, as Google has been working closely with HTC and Qualcomm for a long time -- and the specs for Android are so low, Google clearly expects to be able to run Android on existing hardware, without needing new hardware technology.
Of course, the tools and software we need are all in existence already, someone at Google is doing a good job of keeping their mouth shut. Therefore this is not an impossible task, just difficult, but I know you xda-hackers like a challenge! So, Let's go!!
Charles
FYI: I am aware XDA was founded with the Xanadux project, so this should be the perfect place to hack us a gPhone. I've also browsed threads, read the Wiki, studied up on the Hermes Linux project -- but things seem to have died since Feb 07, I'm hoping this latest development with Android will spark interest again, and we will be able to run Linux on our current, most powerful devices. I could make educated guesses about the state of the Xanadux project, but I'd rather hear it from XDA devs themselves who are most familiar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
where is the video?

anheuer said:
where is the video?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YouTube Your best friend , along with google obviously

The future of the WM interface

Hey all,
a very short time ago - at least compared to most others here - I've have started playing with 'additional interfaces'. The Cube, PointUI, S2U2, HTC Album, additional helpers like FTouchFlo, etc.
These are all nice things, that goes without saying, and props to the devs. We got some really good software devs here, software hackers, tweaks, graphics guys, just good thinkers, etc.
Now what is the problem, you might ask. The problem is, it's all so very disconnected. Yes, you combine them all and make nice things, but setting it up isn't always easy (though some cooks do a great job of it), configuring it all to work nicely together is tiresome, the interfaces are not consistent with eachother, etc. We're all messing and mucking about as one man shows (or few men shows).
Now just think if we all put our efforts together, I think we could make the future ourselves.
Let's take gesturing for instance. Instead of how it works now, a general gesturing library could be made, which first off, provides more gestures, diagonals (instead of just horizontal/vertical), curves (like rotating in HTC Home), circles, etc. And now instead of just using these for general commands like now (keep that for unsupported apps), make this something each app or screen can configure/assign themselves. No more conflicts between different 'touch apps', and also very important, the gestures are the same, unlike the somewhat different gestures that are now used for the different apps.
Another thing is the interfaces. A consistent look (to the already consistant feel from above) would make the whole experience better. A general interface library could be made providing all the code for the transitions/animations, and interface parts like buttons. Everything graphical goes here, so we can all use it. Skinning everything would then also be a breeze.
With these two basic parts we could already go a long way, but the ultimate goal would be taking all the good of all projects, improve on those, and leave out the bad. For example, the cube is nice, but it's awfully limited. There could be a lot more in it. There's nothing special about HTC Album, it's just 'nicely done'.
I hope you can all imagine a bit what I mean with all the above (I try not to go into too much detail). We would all have to work together on this, but if we did, I'm quite sure we could build something that could completely replace the WM shell and would leave the iPhone as well as WM7 (if it ever comes) biting the dust. In the end, everybody who'd work on it may even get payed if we license it to a provider. I truely believe that the whole would be a lot bigger than the parts are now.
I'd expand more on 'my' vision (I'm sure other people have it as well), but it's not much use at this stage yet.
The furure is now, the future is XDA!

yess!! amen!! <3
anyway, why don't we all make open source apps? i mean i think it would be cool to make everyone work on one amazing thing..

It's an exciting notion for sure. I definitely have 100x more faith in the people here to come up with something worthwhile than I do in Microsoft, that's for sure.

That's the problem with the new applications: consistency.

personally I'd love to see pointUI release an API for its interface library. I think they have one of the most responsive and usable touchUIs. I posted this on their forum but didn't get a response.

I think this is a good idea as we have so many different gesturing projects reinventing the wheel. With a unified starting point, it could help new projects get off the ground faster.

Biggest problem: Not everybody is willing to share source codes.

Does anybody knows Xbox Media Center (XBMC) for the Xbox 1? Something like this for PPC would be the breakthrough imho..

Yes i totally agree. Having libraries that other developers can use is a great idea, or sharing code would be good. I made a post few days back about sharing the libraries but i didn't get any reply. I think i didn't make my point as clear as you
I am currently developing some apps (fringer friendly), but i am having lots of touble researching, developing POC, etc to make gestures, transitions and animations etc, which is really time consuming and takes more time from concentrating on the core functionalities of the applications.
So yes developing reusable libraries is definitly a great step that this forum can take.
Might i add, why dont we start a developers group here limited on devs who want to contribute with their code, idea to build these libraries? Where we can discuss the design and architecture of the libraries, export functions etc, needed controls etc.
We might also come up with great framwork that devs can use and sell it (as u mentioned). OpenNetCF did that, they created a large number of controls, .Net wrappers for Win32 APIs, etc, it started out as an opensource project, but then they started selling these their framework.
Hope other developers here become enthusiastic about this idea as we are

TacoLoco said:
Does anybody knows Xbox Media Center (XBMC) for the Xbox 1? Something like this for PPC would be the breakthrough imho..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I started working on an similar application sometime back but dropped it cause i didn't have much time and development resources (especially cool graphical effects) to do it. Actually it was more of the MS Media Center clone.
Well this is a great place to start... we can group together and start working on an application like that....

mrabie said:
Yes i totally agree. Having libraries that other developers can use is a great idea, or sharing code would be good. I made a post few days back about sharing the libraries but i didn't get any reply. I think i didn't make my point as clear as you
I am currently developing some apps (fringer friendly), but i am having lots of touble researching, developing POC, etc to make gestures, transitions and animations etc, which is really time consuming and takes more time from concentrating on the core functionalities of the applications.
So yes developing reusable libraries is definitly a great step that this forum can take.
Might i add, why dont we start a developers group here limited on devs who want to contribute with their code, idea to build these libraries? Where we can discuss the design and architecture of the libraries, export functions etc, needed controls etc.
We might also come up with great framwork that devs can use and sell it (as u mentioned). OpenNetCF did that, they created a large number of controls, .Net wrappers for Win32 APIs, etc, it started out as an opensource project, but then they started selling these their framework.
Hope other developers here become enthusiastic about this idea as we are
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are saying pretty much what I mean. Though the gesture thing wouldn't really be like a library, more like a service with an interface.
Anyway, setting up a dev group like this would IMHO be great (and I was thinking this myself) - we do need a larger group though. After all, if we don't want to, we don't have to share the source code, we can keep it in the group, or use a 'read-only' licence, or LGPL or something (though I'm personally not too fond of the GPL license).
I am convinced, that given enough time, I could do all of this myself. I am also convinced, that many other coders here could. But why should we?

WOW
well im no programmer or developer,just a guy with a titan, but I think you guys are talking about the perfect ui. sort of a modular system where the base ui has all the key functions and you could just plugin the core features of your choice without the need of base code for things like scrolling and gesture,etc... this makes me wonder why no ones done this yet. maybe I can learn abuot developing so I can help. incredible ui idea. thanx

I'm a designer and i'm in for this project!
Let's beat the crap out of the iphone and wm7!
Let us use the good parts from that interfaces and make it better, slicker, more beautifull!
gr. bram

Chainfire
i think there are more people getting interested in the idea... hope that more devs, designers gets interested too

Totally agree, maybe we should start getting the developers/designers (thanks bram_smulders!)/cookers and so on in this project...we could list apps, that are developed in and through this community and maybe - with a little moderation - the developers could agree on some standarts...i think that would be first step...

I'd be willing to help as well, I haven't done too much on the PPC. I've messed a little with the minshell and mintask examples in the wince6 sdk; they compile and run but don't function as expected btw.

help needed ?
Hi all, chainfire as said what i was thinking about thoses different and very nice UIs.
I'm not a developper, just a system IT, if i can help to beta-test the products of your project on my trinity..I'll do it w/ best feedback.

Hi,
I'm a french VB.net developper (even on WM, of course) and I can help that way. if u want !
let me know ( cyril [at] rebreyend {dot} com )

Input
I wouldn't mind working towards the goals outlined for a project like this. I'm especially fond of a gesture library of sorts, as well as a fully functional kinetic scrolling lib.
You can always PM if anything gets started .

I think also that instead of starting from scratch and make another PointUI Home we can try to expand an existing project... Maybe PointUI could have wrote a simili-SDK ? (or someone else ?)
I'll try to contact them, and come back here to tell how far i've been trashed
Anyone have an idea of who has already written something open source ?
P.S: Sorry for my english.

yrgoAPI released

The upcoming version of yrgo will be able to handle custom Gadgets - Gadgets that can be written by other developers. This can nicely extend amount of Gadgets available in yrgo. Now, everything will depend on other developers whether they will prepare new Gadgets or not.
If you are a developer and would like to participate on yrgo developing you must do following:
register on our forum
write us e-mail (2daysoft (at) lepsi (dot) cz) to upgrade your forum account to get access to developers part of the forum
Would you like to get yrgo license for free? Just write a Gadget that will be valuable for our users. We will publish it on our site and you’ll get license of yrgo.

Has anybody signed up for this? This is a real neat app. With a little development I think it could blow away the forum favorite "SPB mobile shell"

propagandax said:
Has anybody signed up for this? This is a real neat app. With a little development I think it could blow away the forum favorite "SPB mobile shell"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
at the moment there is no interest at all :-(. Except one guy nobody has subscribed. But maybe - it needs some time. We'll see in the future.
Luky

Face Recognition Software for PPC

anyone thought of this ? with all the smart developers here I'm sure it';s very doable.
like the Lenovo laptops have the VeriSign sofware. something similar for our ppcs. it would be pretty cool. sorry if it was already discussed maybe.
if it was maybe you can point me in the right direction. thanks

android has a free program something wallet that uses the camera to look at your eye before unlocking. great program if you dont want anyone looking into ur phone

jaygriggs,
I've searched all about xda-developers for the program you mentioned.... do you know where I can find it? Thanks

pclight said:
jaygriggs,
I've searched all about xda-developers for the program you mentioned.... do you know where I can find it? Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'll bet if you get ahold of a g1 you'll find it
hey if your in luck GOOGLE may even have something on it.... not like they have lots of information cataloged, or that they at all had a hand in the android operating system.....

biowallet
ask and you shall receive
http://whyandroid.com/mobile-news/205-biowallet-secure-your-device.html

But biowalett is for G1 and android only, is there an alternative for windows mobile?

BioWallet isn't even available yet. From the web site:
Availability
Many of you have shown interest in BioWallet these months and have asked us about the availability of the product. We really appreciate it.
Some of you even have got a T-Mobile G1, the first public Android device and want to install BioWallet in it.
The bad news is we haven't been given the possibility to get one and we don't want to release a product that hasn't been thoroughly tested on real hardware. We think it wouldn't be neither professional nor fair for you.
The good news is we keep working hard to deliver a software that meets your highest quality expectations. We will try to get a device somehow in the next few weeks and then our intention is releasing a version through the Android Market and other distribution channels.
If you want to be in the loop just subscribe to the list of BioWallet News and we will keep you posted!
By the way, once we complete the initial tests we want to start a beta program to test BioWallet in as many Android platforms as possible. So if you have an Android device and want a free BioWallet copy to help us to test it, just subscribe to the list of Beta Testers and you could be selected!
* - We respect your privacy and we won't share your data with anybody.
Last Updated ( Wednesday, 29 October 2008 22:53 )

Ventrilo on Android - Let's make it happen!

Greetings!
My name is Daniel Sloof and together with a group of volunteers we have recently been working on a project called Mangler: a Ventrilo compatible client for linux. Mangler is driven by a C library called libventrilo3 and over the past couple of weeks I have been working on making this library compile with the Android-NDK. I am currently succesfully able to build libventrilo3 as a native library that can be used in Android applications. The JNI wrappers are a little lackluster, but they are being worked on.
The main reason for me posting on this forum (amongst others) is because I am looking for skilled Android/Java developers to assist us in working on this open-source project. We're mostly C programmers that have very little Android experience. I expect we could have something functional up within the month, most of the work has already been done: we're pretty much just writing a GUI for an existing backend (and some audio stuff, which is just feeding PCM to one of the native functions).
Thanks for reading! If by this point you're interested in participating or have any specific questions you can just post them here or drop by on IRC. You can find me on freenode #mangler (alias: danslo).

Im so excited for this project! I hope this goes well.

Time for an update and a quick *bump*.
More progress has been made making libventrilo suitable for Android usage. This primarily involves audio stuff, such as upsampling to rates that Android's AudioRecord doesn't support. Buffering in the Android App is still required but this can be done with minimal effort. Of course all of this (and future) progress can be found on our website.
There have also been some android developers peaking around in the IRC channel but no active developer has yet been found, feel free to drop by.
(PS: To moderators: I am cross-posting this on several Android Forums. If this is considered spam, please feel free to take appropriate measures.)

What is your website, I'd like to track your progress.

tridge said:
What is your website, I'd like to track your progress.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To prevent spam to the forums, new users are not permitted to post outside links in their messages. All new user accounts will be verified by moderators before this restriction is removed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can find us at mangler (dot) org though

<-- so happy to see this!~!!

*bump* - still looking for developers

Bump & small update!
I've just managed to record audio on my android device and send it to our ventrilo test server. Even with just 8khz quality (for testing purposes) the transmission sounds loud and clear on my ventrilo client! There is a small bit of delay but that doesn't seem to be caused by either the connection or the speed of the device (HTC Magic); it can probably be fixed with relative ease.
That being said, looks like we've found an Android developer willing to work on the project, but nothing is for certain so we're still looking for decent Java/Android developers to help out.

And up up we go!
Current revision in our repository can now play received audio transmissions! Once that is worked out nicely, all we'll really need is a decent GUI and some minor modifications (process more library events, etc) and we're good to go.
That spot for Android/Java developer is still available

danslo said:
And up up we go!
Current revision in our repository can now play received audio transmissions! Once that is worked out nicely, all we'll really need is a decent GUI and some minor modifications (process more library events, etc) and we're good to go.
That spot for Android/Java developer is still available
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Way to go keep up the good work, can't wait to give it a whirl.

People dont seem to understand the potential of this, what a shame. there should be 100 guys clamoring to do this. if i coded i would be all over this.

Looking forward to seeing what comes of this!

xanaviarai said:
People dont seem to understand the potential of this, what a shame. there should be 100 guys clamoring to do this. if i coded i would be all over this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately those are the responses we get most of the time Thanks for the support!

I noticed on your website that you recommend Mumble, which I've been a huge fan and contributor since 2007. Any reason not to make Mumble for Android? It's my #1 most wanted app (I've got money on it) and I've heard from quite a few other people who want it, but hardly anyone with the skills/resources to make it happen. Then again it looks like you're in a similar situation, yet still the most qualified.

Pilot_51 said:
I noticed on your website that you recommend Mumble, which I've been a huge fan and contributor since 2007. Any reason not to make Mumble for Android? It's my #1 most wanted app (I've got money on it) and I've heard from quite a few other people who want it, but hardly anyone with the skills/resources to make it happen. Then again it looks like you're in a similar situation, yet still the most qualified.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Several reasons:
1) I've never worked on Mumble. (I am very familiar with the ventrilo protocol and written quite a chunk of our ventrilo library)
2) It's written in C++, which is not by default supported by the Android NDK. (unlike libventrilo3 which is written in plain C)
3) Mangler seperates a ventrilo library from its GUI interface, which makes it easy to write seperate interfaces to the same library. As far as I know this is not the case with Mumble.
Don't get me wrong, I (we?) think that Mumble is one of the better alternatives for desktop environments.. but Android places some restrictions that are difficult to overcome with the way Mumble was designed.
I hope that answers your question.

Fair enough. I will continue my search.
As I hear from some developers in the Mumble community, the main limitation is the lack of Qt support for Android, but there may be a way to work around the need for Qt. I'm not a programmer (I hope eventually), so I wouldn't know how difficult such a task would be by any standard.

Pilot_51 said:
Fair enough. I will continue my search.
As I hear from some developers in the Mumble community, the main limitation is the lack of Qt support for Android, but there may be a way to work around the need for Qt. I'm not a programmer (I hope eventually), so I wouldn't know how difficult such a task would be by any standard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's pretty much a lack of any GUI toolkit on Android (that includes Qt, but also Gtk, wxWidgets, etc). You are pretty much confined to writing it in Java with the Android SDK. Which isn't really a big issue; you want your stuff to feel like -actual- android apps anyway. The real problem with Mumble integration is the Android NDK's lack of proper (official) C++ support and a way of interfacing with the Mumble network protocol without touching any of the audio/gui stuff.

Pilot_51 said:
Fair enough. I will continue my search.
As I hear from some developers in the Mumble community, the main limitation is the lack of Qt support for Android, but there may be a way to work around the need for Qt. I'm not a programmer (I hope eventually), so I wouldn't know how difficult such a task would be by any standard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a Qt port for Android underway, so this might help the port once it gets completed.

I've gone off-topic for long enough, but couldn't resist to post. Some dude named pcgod in our mangler IRC channel is working on a Mumble port for Android.. Git repository can be found here:
http://github.com/pcgod/mumble-android
In regards to Mangler... only thing we really still need is a GUI.

Checking out the svn of the project it seems that some work has already been done. Do you only need the GUI now? or the audio stuff too like you wrote in your first post?
EDIT: I just tried it, it manages to login and I can see that there are some users in the test server but how do I start a conversation?