Hey all,
a very short time ago - at least compared to most others here - I've have started playing with 'additional interfaces'. The Cube, PointUI, S2U2, HTC Album, additional helpers like FTouchFlo, etc.
These are all nice things, that goes without saying, and props to the devs. We got some really good software devs here, software hackers, tweaks, graphics guys, just good thinkers, etc.
Now what is the problem, you might ask. The problem is, it's all so very disconnected. Yes, you combine them all and make nice things, but setting it up isn't always easy (though some cooks do a great job of it), configuring it all to work nicely together is tiresome, the interfaces are not consistent with eachother, etc. We're all messing and mucking about as one man shows (or few men shows).
Now just think if we all put our efforts together, I think we could make the future ourselves.
Let's take gesturing for instance. Instead of how it works now, a general gesturing library could be made, which first off, provides more gestures, diagonals (instead of just horizontal/vertical), curves (like rotating in HTC Home), circles, etc. And now instead of just using these for general commands like now (keep that for unsupported apps), make this something each app or screen can configure/assign themselves. No more conflicts between different 'touch apps', and also very important, the gestures are the same, unlike the somewhat different gestures that are now used for the different apps.
Another thing is the interfaces. A consistent look (to the already consistant feel from above) would make the whole experience better. A general interface library could be made providing all the code for the transitions/animations, and interface parts like buttons. Everything graphical goes here, so we can all use it. Skinning everything would then also be a breeze.
With these two basic parts we could already go a long way, but the ultimate goal would be taking all the good of all projects, improve on those, and leave out the bad. For example, the cube is nice, but it's awfully limited. There could be a lot more in it. There's nothing special about HTC Album, it's just 'nicely done'.
I hope you can all imagine a bit what I mean with all the above (I try not to go into too much detail). We would all have to work together on this, but if we did, I'm quite sure we could build something that could completely replace the WM shell and would leave the iPhone as well as WM7 (if it ever comes) biting the dust. In the end, everybody who'd work on it may even get payed if we license it to a provider. I truely believe that the whole would be a lot bigger than the parts are now.
I'd expand more on 'my' vision (I'm sure other people have it as well), but it's not much use at this stage yet.
The furure is now, the future is XDA!
yess!! amen!! <3
anyway, why don't we all make open source apps? i mean i think it would be cool to make everyone work on one amazing thing..
It's an exciting notion for sure. I definitely have 100x more faith in the people here to come up with something worthwhile than I do in Microsoft, that's for sure.
That's the problem with the new applications: consistency.
personally I'd love to see pointUI release an API for its interface library. I think they have one of the most responsive and usable touchUIs. I posted this on their forum but didn't get a response.
I think this is a good idea as we have so many different gesturing projects reinventing the wheel. With a unified starting point, it could help new projects get off the ground faster.
Biggest problem: Not everybody is willing to share source codes.
Does anybody knows Xbox Media Center (XBMC) for the Xbox 1? Something like this for PPC would be the breakthrough imho..
Yes i totally agree. Having libraries that other developers can use is a great idea, or sharing code would be good. I made a post few days back about sharing the libraries but i didn't get any reply. I think i didn't make my point as clear as you
I am currently developing some apps (fringer friendly), but i am having lots of touble researching, developing POC, etc to make gestures, transitions and animations etc, which is really time consuming and takes more time from concentrating on the core functionalities of the applications.
So yes developing reusable libraries is definitly a great step that this forum can take.
Might i add, why dont we start a developers group here limited on devs who want to contribute with their code, idea to build these libraries? Where we can discuss the design and architecture of the libraries, export functions etc, needed controls etc.
We might also come up with great framwork that devs can use and sell it (as u mentioned). OpenNetCF did that, they created a large number of controls, .Net wrappers for Win32 APIs, etc, it started out as an opensource project, but then they started selling these their framework.
Hope other developers here become enthusiastic about this idea as we are
TacoLoco said:
Does anybody knows Xbox Media Center (XBMC) for the Xbox 1? Something like this for PPC would be the breakthrough imho..
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I started working on an similar application sometime back but dropped it cause i didn't have much time and development resources (especially cool graphical effects) to do it. Actually it was more of the MS Media Center clone.
Well this is a great place to start... we can group together and start working on an application like that....
mrabie said:
Yes i totally agree. Having libraries that other developers can use is a great idea, or sharing code would be good. I made a post few days back about sharing the libraries but i didn't get any reply. I think i didn't make my point as clear as you
I am currently developing some apps (fringer friendly), but i am having lots of touble researching, developing POC, etc to make gestures, transitions and animations etc, which is really time consuming and takes more time from concentrating on the core functionalities of the applications.
So yes developing reusable libraries is definitly a great step that this forum can take.
Might i add, why dont we start a developers group here limited on devs who want to contribute with their code, idea to build these libraries? Where we can discuss the design and architecture of the libraries, export functions etc, needed controls etc.
We might also come up with great framwork that devs can use and sell it (as u mentioned). OpenNetCF did that, they created a large number of controls, .Net wrappers for Win32 APIs, etc, it started out as an opensource project, but then they started selling these their framework.
Hope other developers here become enthusiastic about this idea as we are
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Click to collapse
You are saying pretty much what I mean. Though the gesture thing wouldn't really be like a library, more like a service with an interface.
Anyway, setting up a dev group like this would IMHO be great (and I was thinking this myself) - we do need a larger group though. After all, if we don't want to, we don't have to share the source code, we can keep it in the group, or use a 'read-only' licence, or LGPL or something (though I'm personally not too fond of the GPL license).
I am convinced, that given enough time, I could do all of this myself. I am also convinced, that many other coders here could. But why should we?
WOW
well im no programmer or developer,just a guy with a titan, but I think you guys are talking about the perfect ui. sort of a modular system where the base ui has all the key functions and you could just plugin the core features of your choice without the need of base code for things like scrolling and gesture,etc... this makes me wonder why no ones done this yet. maybe I can learn abuot developing so I can help. incredible ui idea. thanx
I'm a designer and i'm in for this project!
Let's beat the crap out of the iphone and wm7!
Let us use the good parts from that interfaces and make it better, slicker, more beautifull!
gr. bram
Chainfire
i think there are more people getting interested in the idea... hope that more devs, designers gets interested too
Totally agree, maybe we should start getting the developers/designers (thanks bram_smulders!)/cookers and so on in this project...we could list apps, that are developed in and through this community and maybe - with a little moderation - the developers could agree on some standarts...i think that would be first step...
I'd be willing to help as well, I haven't done too much on the PPC. I've messed a little with the minshell and mintask examples in the wince6 sdk; they compile and run but don't function as expected btw.
help needed ?
Hi all, chainfire as said what i was thinking about thoses different and very nice UIs.
I'm not a developper, just a system IT, if i can help to beta-test the products of your project on my trinity..I'll do it w/ best feedback.
Hi,
I'm a french VB.net developper (even on WM, of course) and I can help that way. if u want !
let me know ( cyril [at] rebreyend {dot} com )
Input
I wouldn't mind working towards the goals outlined for a project like this. I'm especially fond of a gesture library of sorts, as well as a fully functional kinetic scrolling lib.
You can always PM if anything gets started .
I think also that instead of starting from scratch and make another PointUI Home we can try to expand an existing project... Maybe PointUI could have wrote a simili-SDK ? (or someone else ?)
I'll try to contact them, and come back here to tell how far i've been trashed
Anyone have an idea of who has already written something open source ?
P.S: Sorry for my english.
Related
Hi All,
First i would like to start out by saying that this forum is the best place to be if you are a WM (HTC) phones passionate user or developer and people here are really great and has a lot to offer.
Second.. As i see in this forum (Development and Hacking) that there a lot of developers who give a lot and ther who want to give a lot but don't know where to start. I see lots of potential in the applications being developed here and potential for lots of other applications that can be developed. MS in the past has kind of misunderstod the power and usage of touchscreen by making the UI of WM not really finger friendly, although they are starting to realize that (maybe after the iPhone came out) but we wont see that for another year or so when they come out with WM 7.
Anyway to cut the story short i wanted to say that almost everyday there's a new Finger Friendly app being developed and added to the forum and people with great ideas want to come up with new applications. We definitly have 2 killer applications PocketCM and PointUI that the developers have made a wonderful job in the UI, finger friendly and espetially the window transitions. They have conqured where MS has failed (so far) in providing the right controls for developers espeically UI controls to develop rich UI applications on their platform.
I was thinking why dont the developers of these applications share their platform with other developers here in the forum instead of each developer having to start from scratch everytime a new finger friendly application to be borned? especially that these applications are all free for download (that is if the developers of these application will keep providing these apps for free and not start charging like some other did)
That's just my thought and i would like to hear what other developers in this forum think and definitly would like to hear the opinion of the 2 wonderful fingerfriendly apps.
Thanks for you time in reading this and sorry for the long post.
Happy New Year 2008
cheers
Hello,
i try to make programs for PPC (actually, for my VGA Diamond).
For that, i use visual studio 9, and C#.
But, i can't find examples about how to design the interface. Because of, the components from VStudio are pretty ugly!!
i search through xda forum and wiki, but didn't find anything that helped me.
And, i see many applications that are well design and beautifull... so, i would like to know how??!
bsoftco said:
Hello,
i try to make programs for PPC (actually, for my VGA Diamond).
For that, i use visual studio 9, and C#.
But, i can't find examples about how to design the interface. Because of, the components from VStudio are pretty ugly!!
i search through xda forum and wiki, but didn't find anything that helped me.
And, i see many applications that are well design and beautifull... so, i would like to know how??!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read about overriding the OnPaint event. Note that this is nothing easy to do if you just started to develop.
Thx.
i will look forward later.
Maybe you have some examples or websites where i can find out more about this ?
I agree, for someone to try and learn programming for wm, there isn't too much help out there.
Back in the early 90's I used to play around with VB3. It was SO easy to create applications, plus there were TONS of examples out on the net that you could learn from. Then there was the big jump tof VB4 and 32 bit programming. I just couldn't get enough of it! For hours I would be behind my desktop trying and learning. Before you know it, life got in the way and I didn't have as much time as I would have liked to play around with the hobby I truly enjoyed.
I received a copy of VS from a friend figuring the love would come back but its just not there. Very easily I became frustrated and gave up. To bad there isn't a planet source code out there for programming wm apps. 90% of what I learned back then, came from there.
There's not a Planet Sourcecode site for WM development? Well: there should be. Interested?
I totally agree!!!
it's now really hard to find some "good" informations about WM programming.
Yes, ok, it's still simple to make some VB.net programs, basic programs i mean.
But, they remain basic, and as ugly as the VS components...
That's why i'm trying to get help from the XDA community.
Also, i wonder why there so many great apps, and so less source code available too!!!
So, nobody ???
I'm interested in starting a project to help WM developers make nicer-looking apps. While the power of WM is great, I think many of us realize that the apps simply don't have the "slick"ness that apps on some competing platforms have. Part of this, I think, is because some of the awesome developers overwork themselves and simply don't have the time (or training) to pump up slick graphics to go with their slick functionality.
I have a handful of graphic design training and I think a decent understanding of UI design, but I lack programming skillz. I'd love to offer my graphic abilities to the community, and I'm sure there's plenty of others like me out there as well.
What I'd like to do is help developers find folks who want to help create graphic assets and interface designs for apps. Perhaps nothing more extensive is needed than a thread where graphics folks can post samples of their work and maybe a list of things they'd like to work on.
I realize that some developers really prefer working as a "one man" operation, and I don't want to step on any toes. But I'd like to hear feedback from the development community here and suggestions on ways we could make a project like this work great.
Greetings!
My name is Daniel Sloof and together with a group of volunteers we have recently been working on a project called Mangler: a Ventrilo compatible client for linux. Mangler is driven by a C library called libventrilo3 and over the past couple of weeks I have been working on making this library compile with the Android-NDK. I am currently succesfully able to build libventrilo3 as a native library that can be used in Android applications. The JNI wrappers are a little lackluster, but they are being worked on.
The main reason for me posting on this forum (amongst others) is because I am looking for skilled Android/Java developers to assist us in working on this open-source project. We're mostly C programmers that have very little Android experience. I expect we could have something functional up within the month, most of the work has already been done: we're pretty much just writing a GUI for an existing backend (and some audio stuff, which is just feeding PCM to one of the native functions).
Thanks for reading! If by this point you're interested in participating or have any specific questions you can just post them here or drop by on IRC. You can find me on freenode #mangler (alias: danslo).
Im so excited for this project! I hope this goes well.
Time for an update and a quick *bump*.
More progress has been made making libventrilo suitable for Android usage. This primarily involves audio stuff, such as upsampling to rates that Android's AudioRecord doesn't support. Buffering in the Android App is still required but this can be done with minimal effort. Of course all of this (and future) progress can be found on our website.
There have also been some android developers peaking around in the IRC channel but no active developer has yet been found, feel free to drop by.
(PS: To moderators: I am cross-posting this on several Android Forums. If this is considered spam, please feel free to take appropriate measures.)
What is your website, I'd like to track your progress.
tridge said:
What is your website, I'd like to track your progress.
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To prevent spam to the forums, new users are not permitted to post outside links in their messages. All new user accounts will be verified by moderators before this restriction is removed.
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You can find us at mangler (dot) org though
<-- so happy to see this!~!!
*bump* - still looking for developers
Bump & small update!
I've just managed to record audio on my android device and send it to our ventrilo test server. Even with just 8khz quality (for testing purposes) the transmission sounds loud and clear on my ventrilo client! There is a small bit of delay but that doesn't seem to be caused by either the connection or the speed of the device (HTC Magic); it can probably be fixed with relative ease.
That being said, looks like we've found an Android developer willing to work on the project, but nothing is for certain so we're still looking for decent Java/Android developers to help out.
And up up we go!
Current revision in our repository can now play received audio transmissions! Once that is worked out nicely, all we'll really need is a decent GUI and some minor modifications (process more library events, etc) and we're good to go.
That spot for Android/Java developer is still available
danslo said:
And up up we go!
Current revision in our repository can now play received audio transmissions! Once that is worked out nicely, all we'll really need is a decent GUI and some minor modifications (process more library events, etc) and we're good to go.
That spot for Android/Java developer is still available
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Way to go keep up the good work, can't wait to give it a whirl.
People dont seem to understand the potential of this, what a shame. there should be 100 guys clamoring to do this. if i coded i would be all over this.
Looking forward to seeing what comes of this!
xanaviarai said:
People dont seem to understand the potential of this, what a shame. there should be 100 guys clamoring to do this. if i coded i would be all over this.
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Click to collapse
Unfortunately those are the responses we get most of the time Thanks for the support!
I noticed on your website that you recommend Mumble, which I've been a huge fan and contributor since 2007. Any reason not to make Mumble for Android? It's my #1 most wanted app (I've got money on it) and I've heard from quite a few other people who want it, but hardly anyone with the skills/resources to make it happen. Then again it looks like you're in a similar situation, yet still the most qualified.
Pilot_51 said:
I noticed on your website that you recommend Mumble, which I've been a huge fan and contributor since 2007. Any reason not to make Mumble for Android? It's my #1 most wanted app (I've got money on it) and I've heard from quite a few other people who want it, but hardly anyone with the skills/resources to make it happen. Then again it looks like you're in a similar situation, yet still the most qualified.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Several reasons:
1) I've never worked on Mumble. (I am very familiar with the ventrilo protocol and written quite a chunk of our ventrilo library)
2) It's written in C++, which is not by default supported by the Android NDK. (unlike libventrilo3 which is written in plain C)
3) Mangler seperates a ventrilo library from its GUI interface, which makes it easy to write seperate interfaces to the same library. As far as I know this is not the case with Mumble.
Don't get me wrong, I (we?) think that Mumble is one of the better alternatives for desktop environments.. but Android places some restrictions that are difficult to overcome with the way Mumble was designed.
I hope that answers your question.
Fair enough. I will continue my search.
As I hear from some developers in the Mumble community, the main limitation is the lack of Qt support for Android, but there may be a way to work around the need for Qt. I'm not a programmer (I hope eventually), so I wouldn't know how difficult such a task would be by any standard.
Pilot_51 said:
Fair enough. I will continue my search.
As I hear from some developers in the Mumble community, the main limitation is the lack of Qt support for Android, but there may be a way to work around the need for Qt. I'm not a programmer (I hope eventually), so I wouldn't know how difficult such a task would be by any standard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's pretty much a lack of any GUI toolkit on Android (that includes Qt, but also Gtk, wxWidgets, etc). You are pretty much confined to writing it in Java with the Android SDK. Which isn't really a big issue; you want your stuff to feel like -actual- android apps anyway. The real problem with Mumble integration is the Android NDK's lack of proper (official) C++ support and a way of interfacing with the Mumble network protocol without touching any of the audio/gui stuff.
Pilot_51 said:
Fair enough. I will continue my search.
As I hear from some developers in the Mumble community, the main limitation is the lack of Qt support for Android, but there may be a way to work around the need for Qt. I'm not a programmer (I hope eventually), so I wouldn't know how difficult such a task would be by any standard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a Qt port for Android underway, so this might help the port once it gets completed.
I've gone off-topic for long enough, but couldn't resist to post. Some dude named pcgod in our mangler IRC channel is working on a Mumble port for Android.. Git repository can be found here:
http://github.com/pcgod/mumble-android
In regards to Mangler... only thing we really still need is a GUI.
Checking out the svn of the project it seems that some work has already been done. Do you only need the GUI now? or the audio stuff too like you wrote in your first post?
EDIT: I just tried it, it manages to login and I can see that there are some users in the test server but how do I start a conversation?
I want to focus on developing GUIs but I'm not sure where to start. I just read through a few pages of http://source.android.com/ to get more information and it was helpful but I'm still not sure what my skill set should be. I also went through Google's new App inventor and finished all the tutorials but it still seems like a toy.
I can: design interfaces, code javascript, implement XML (weak on C and Java but I get it), create anything using photoshop or any graphic application, color-coordinate, test and implement and write--I can write technical instructions fairly well.
So... that said, what's a typical Android designer's skill-set?
Thanks.
Patience, mellowness and a strong constitution!
The Android development platforms so far available are pretty poor if you're used to something like Visual Studio. The best option seems to be Eclipse running the Android ADT plugin. There is plenty of documentation about how to get it all up and running and it is quite easy to install and configure. The app inventor is a toy for non-developers to create simple applications and it works well for what it is but as soon as you want more complex UIs or more complex code, especially when it comes to using external libraries, you will need to get into Eclipse.
You have the right skills, in fact I would say UI and graphics design is the weakest area for many developers. It is for me. I can write beautiful functional code that does amazing things but my UIs suck unless they are simple. I always need to find someone who can help me with that. In my experience, and I have a lot of commercial code development experience, good UI design is a widely missing skill. It therefore pays well and is highly sought after. You might consider specialising in it?
Be careful going from C to Java. Java is still a pig of a language, do a little googling for "problems with Java" and be especially careful of the fact that Java passes everything by reference unless you use cloning. If you don't always write very loosely coupled methods and are good with encapsulation, this will bite you and often in very difficult to understand ways. I recommend running through each method with only this in mind before you consider the first version of the method complete.
My advice to you is to get Visual Studio Express (they're free), either VB or C#, it really doesn't matter, and become proficient with object oriented programming, proper error handling and scope of objects and variables. Do these things, and assuming that you have the right mindset to create good code, and you'll protect yourself from all the usual bugs that amateur developers introduce.
Then move back to Java. Java is a lot easier to be proficient in when moving from something like VB or C# because whilst frustrating, due to the things you'll miss, you will at least know rather than "not know what you don't know", if that makes sense.
If you are serious about doing this for a living, buy some books by Steve MacGuire.
"Writing Solid Code"
"Debugging the development process"
If every develope could do what these books teach, we would have a much more capable software world.
Good luck!
I have the same question? What do you think will be future programming? Developing web apps like Facebook or Android apps?
How is with work today?
I did banchelors from computer science, and want to try masters now, but I need to choose developing Androids apps or Webapps. I am pretty good at C#, JavaScript, XML.
There's a lot of milage in mobile apps, will be good for many years but there is no doubt that the future is web apps.
Excellent! What a great response. Source.android has a lot of information on what a developer should know but I still can't find information on Android GUI design--specifically. Any advice on this?
Thanks.
I think everyone should learn some c/c++ or other native language. Most will say im crazy for saying this but to appreciate what comes with the languages u mentioned above(which are all managed code) I think you should learn power and use behind native code.
c#, java, .net are all good places to start, i would not go with vb. If you choose to start with c/c++ you will be able to do any of the above easily. Tho others think its harder to learn...I say others bc i have always preferred c/c++ to the above.
Simonta... You rock!
Many Thanks.