Related
Hey all,
I'm sick of waiting around for the Samsung Note 10.1" and I really want a device with great stylus support. I have owned ThinkPads in the past (when they were IBM) and from the reviews it seems like most peoples problems with this device were software, not hardware related. I've owned 3 other android devices, always rooted and loaded custom ROMs on them but I am seeing a lot less development activity and choice here. So some questions:
1) I will probably order from Amazon, 32GB w/ stylus. Not sure if it will come with ICS aka 4.0.3 aka OTA3 (I think?). If it does there is currently no way to root it correct?
2) I see there are a few rooting methods, packages, apps, etc. I am getting really confused about which ones are for which device & image (K1, TPT, ROW, JP, etc). Is there a "go to" guide for this specific device?
3) Are there any AOSP ROMs available? If not, how much junk/bloat comes with Lenovo's images?
4) I am looking to use this for business, mostly note taking and diagramming. The stylus input is the *biggest* factor for me and I want it to be smoooooooth. Am I making the right purchase?
I have experience rooting and loading custom roms via CWR on the Nexus One and SGS2-Tmo. I'm just trying to do my homework and see if this device is going to meet my needs before dropping a few hundred on it.
Thanks
I think from what you've read on the forum YOU know you are making the wrong purchase but you're sick of waiting. Then Of course by all means pls get a tpt. That impatience of yours will be tested when you have to send the tablet for a few weeks to repair the broken usb/power button/volume button. The pen is NOT smooth-it develops a mind of its own after writing for a few mins. I'm also sorry to say that development on this tablet is DEAD. There were gallant efforts by koshu and Co but lenovo has proved that they are against development of any kind. Even updates from lenovo are a pain in the backside especially if u somehow had root or Cwm recovery. It's very difficult to learn from other people's mistakes until you make yours then you'd wish you been patient and saved a few hundred dollars
ac251404 said:
Hey all,
I'm sick of waiting around for the Samsung Note 10.1" and I really want a device with great stylus support. I have owned ThinkPads in the past (when they were IBM) and from the reviews it seems like most peoples problems with this device were software, not hardware related. I've owned 3 other android devices, always rooted and loaded custom ROMs on them but I am seeing a lot less development activity and choice here. So some questions:
1) I will probably order from Amazon, 32GB w/ stylus. Not sure if it will come with ICS aka 4.0.3 aka OTA3 (I think?). If it does there is currently no way to root it correct?
2) I see there are a few rooting methods, packages, apps, etc. I am getting really confused about which ones are for which device & image (K1, TPT, ROW, JP, etc). Is there a "go to" guide for this specific device?
3) Are there any AOSP ROMs available? If not, how much junk/bloat comes with Lenovo's images?
4) I am looking to use this for business, mostly note taking and diagramming. The stylus input is the *biggest* factor for me and I want it to be smoooooooth. Am I making the right purchase?
I have experience rooting and loading custom roms via CWR on the Nexus One and SGS2-Tmo. I'm just trying to do my homework and see if this device is going to meet my needs before dropping a few hundred on it.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Correct, as of now.
2) Not applicable for a device you purchase that has ICS already loaded - which it will.
3) See 2 above.
4) You really have no option to the TPT if you're looking for a primarily business-oriented tablet, or one with an active digitizer pen. There aren't really any other tablets around that are designed to be anything other than entertainment toys.
darkhandsome18 said:
I think from what you've read on the forum YOU know you are making the wrong purchase but you're sick of waiting. Then Of course by all means pls get a tpt. That impatience of yours will be tested when you have to send the tablet for a few weeks to repair the broken usb/power button/volume button. The pen is NOT smooth-it develops a mind of its own after writing for a few mins. I'm also sorry to say that development on this tablet is DEAD. There were gallant efforts by koshu and Co but lenovo has proved that they are against development of any kind. Even updates from lenovo are a pain in the backside especially if u somehow had root or Cwm recovery. It's very difficult to learn from other people's mistakes until you make yours then you'd wish you been patient and saved a few hundred dollars
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I was basing my impressions of the pen from this video: http://youtu.be/prqFXRFHbPE It looks like it has some quirks but for the most part these are software issues. I know I am running a risk buying something that is already out-dated, but I feel like the device still has potential with the right software and a price tag under $400.
I appreciate both of your replies but I guess I am no closer to figuring this out and should put off my purchase for another few months to see what else is in the pipeline. I wish there was more video and coverage of the stylus input on the new windows tablets.
I have been waiting *years* for the right tablet with pen input to come along. I do not understand how people deny that a market exists for these devices. I'm not even in school anymore (been hoping for this type of device since my first year of university) but if I was, as a science major the ability to draw and sketch ideas and diagrams, not to mention annotate PDFs/reading material, and have digital copies of my textbooks... it just all seems so obvious. As a web developer I am still constantly sketching out ideas and concepts and *cannot* take notes with a keyboard. I am a visual and tactile learner and the subtle underlines and annotations of my notes make all the difference.
Ok sorry for venting. Thanks for the replies.
ac251404 said:
Hey all,
I'm sick of waiting around for the Samsung Note 10.1" and I really want a device with great stylus support. I have owned ThinkPads in the past (when they were IBM) and from the reviews it seems like most peoples problems with this device were software, not hardware related. I've owned 3 other android devices, always rooted and loaded custom ROMs on them but I am seeing a lot less development activity and choice here. So some questions:
1) I will probably order from Amazon, 32GB w/ stylus. Not sure if it will come with ICS aka 4.0.3 aka OTA3 (I think?). If it does there is currently no way to root it correct?
2) I see there are a few rooting methods, packages, apps, etc. I am getting really confused about which ones are for which device & image (K1, TPT, ROW, JP, etc). Is there a "go to" guide for this specific device?
3) Are there any AOSP ROMs available? If not, how much junk/bloat comes with Lenovo's images?
4) I am looking to use this for business, mostly note taking and diagramming. The stylus input is the *biggest* factor for me and I want it to be smoooooooth. Am I making the right purchase?
I have experience rooting and loading custom roms via CWR on the Nexus One and SGS2-Tmo. I'm just trying to do my homework and see if this device is going to meet my needs before dropping a few hundred on it.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to the TPT forums!
First of all, this tablet has a very low dev support hence you might have to wait for a long time to be able to root your device and load custom roms. As for now, there is a user who has compiled AOSP jelly bean on his TPT which is partially working. So my point is that things are happening in the dev center but at a very slow pace.
If you are buying this tablet to make diagrams and sketches then I would highly recommend it. The plus points of the TPT is that the hardware is really solid. I unfortunately dropped it a couple of times (well my friends dropped it) from a considerable height and there are no scratches or dents and the tablet works just great hence its pretty well built. Having a full sized USB is a great deal maker for me, being a university student, helps me rally data to old systems real quick.
As far as pen capabilities are concerned, there are quite a few apps that will make great use of it. Like the apps named quill,lecture notes etc will definitely be great for the device. I personally take notes on quill and i must say that the tablet lives upto my expectations. I have virtually replaced pen and paper with it. After the ICS update, the device is pretty snappy and the general UI experience has improved great folds from the honeycomb times.
I never rooted my tablet and never felt the need of doing so, cause like I said, after the ICS update the device is much faster thanks to custom launchers and disabling certain vendor apps. The main reason why i bought this tablet was to take notes and it has surpassed my expectations.
So if sketching is the main use instead of multimedia experience, then go for it. It is a practical device.
Hope that helped, let me know if i can assist you any further.
Cheers
Vito
Hey there, just a quick summary of what the different versions mean:
US,ROW,WE etc is the region of the device.
TPT is the thinkpad tablet
K1 is an entirely different Lenovo tablet, with no pen support. As far as I can tell, the two are not compatible (ROMs etc.) I'm pretty sure that K1 activity is routed here because there is no dedicated forum for it.
I hope to write a guide for the device shortly. There is not much development going on but that does not mean it is dead. Devs are working on various (very alpha) ports of CM9 and AOSP JB, and the official lenovo update is apparently very nice (including making the pen even better to use )
In terms of bloat, lenovo does add quite a few annoying apps, but luckily most can be uninstalled without root.
I bought a 32GB ROW (because I'm in canada). I have been using NVflash and am able to flash roms without the use of CWM, which could turn out to be our salvation. It looks like US tablets have NVflash disabled. I don't know if this means all ROW tablets are unlocked, but I haven't heard of anyone with an ROW tablet not having NVflash access. ( I also haven't looked very hard)
Stay tuned, I have a feeling there will some nice breakthroughs on this tablet eventually
ac251404 said:
1) I will probably order from Amazon, 32GB w/ stylus. Not sure if it will come with ICS aka 4.0.3 aka OTA3 (I think?). If it does there is currently no way to root it correct?
2) I see there are a few rooting methods, packages, apps, etc. I am getting really confused about which ones are for which device & image (K1, TPT, ROW, JP, etc). Is there a "go to" guide for this specific device?
3) Are there any AOSP ROMs available? If not, how much junk/bloat comes with Lenovo's images?
4) I am looking to use this for business, mostly note taking and diagramming. The stylus input is the *biggest* factor for me and I want it to be smoooooooth. Am I making the right purchase?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Probably you will get Honeycomb version. I do not believe there is anyone upgrading the stock. And probably no ICS loaded devices were made (seems like production stopped some time ago).
2) Hard to tell, as it is unclear which version Amazon is selling. But generally if you have some basic experience, you will make it.
3) There is no working aftermarket ROM. But after upgrade to ICS the situation is a lot better. Using alternative launcher ignoring the Lenovo SW can make the job.
4) I bought it for the same reason. More than HW you fight the SW looking for the best app to make your notes. The Lenovo SW is not usable. And every alternative I tried has some issues.
I clearly understand your dilemma. I doubt that waiting for Samy Note tablet will satisfy you, as this will be the first Samy experience with pen ... I expect a lot of problems, which Lenovo somehow solved till now with ICS release.
I was buying it as replacement for old Lenovo Windows tablet with pen. Especially in combination with OneNote it was great tool ... but it was old, heavy and broken by years of use.
After some time, I got used to this tablet, and I do not use notebook going to client. There TPT can make the job. For other more demanding work I have standard "big" PC.
Of course ... if you buy TPT you will have to accept some "features" like slow charging without full power off (and cold boot after charge), or sometimes frozen unlocking touch till you do not pull the pen of. I don't know how you, but I can live with these problems .
Generally. There is NO device with ANY operating system, which can satisfy needs of me and probably you. Having electronic alternative for paper and pen.
Anyway I'm more satisfied with current status than with lot of papers, where I usually I was not able to find the note I needed
If you need such device, go for TPT a use to live with it. Not perfect, but probably the best available.
Galaxy Note 10.1
Woohoo, the galaxy note 10.1 has been officially announced for release later this month. If you have waited this long, a couple of weeks shouldn't bee too much. As for me, I'm simply salivating at the specs - Quad core processor, wifi+3g versions, 7000mAh battery, 1200 x 800 display; weighing in at approx 600g (way lighter than the ipad). Oh and you can bet that samsung's pen will be far better than the horrific stylus on the thinkpad (just ask galaxy note users). Having had a galaxy s2/s3, I know that samsung products are extremely easy to root, mod update, etc; unlike the thinkpad where even updating is a pain. All in all, I'm elated that I can finally toss out this piece of garbage that lenovo put out. Infact, if someone offers me 100pounds for my thinkpad, I'll toss it to them with some change.
http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/ipad-and-tablets/samsung-galaxy-note-10-1-review-50007108/
how do you like it
Not very impressive resolution for the price.
My note 4 and android wear app do not work together it keeps telling me when I install it needs to refresh to uninstall and reinstall over and over. It worked fine for a week and then crashed. I have the LG G watch.
Anyone? on the above post?
you can wipe out all the apps root ,and try to install again inside your cellphone.
actually not sured of its problem .help you grow this post ,and waiting
for others to come here for helping you.
Albertoonline said:
you can wipe out all the apps root ,and try to install again inside your cellphone.
actually not sured of its problem .help you grow this post ,and waiting
for others to come here for helping you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I am going to root this week I just needed to put the note through its paces for a few weeks. It works fine with my G3 phone but just will not cooperate with the Note.
Call me a sceptic, but they should be working in perfect harmony like my M8 and Moto 360.
(I think) Samsung is starting to sabotage Android as they are trying again to reinvent there Tizen OS.........lol
Contact LG
If LG said (when you purchased the watch) that it would be compatible with the Note 4, or if they list it as compatible now, then they need to follow up on that and provide you with support to get it working.
If you purchased the Note 4 and Samsung has is written somewhere in their documentation that they would support Android Wear watches, then they need to be pestered with your support needs.
It's possible that your carrier, who sold the Note 4 to you, could also be held responsible for providing support.
Though I love XDA, and that community help is, reasonably, always at hand, it's taking on the work that manufacturers and retailers are promising to do. In order for manufacturers and service companies to accurately price their products, they need customers to make their needs and expectations known. If those expectations aren't met, then they need to make less money by having fewer return customers, or returned product.
It may not be the easiest, but it's the right thing to do.
I used the Moto 360 just fine with my T-Mobile note 4
I use LG G watch R with my Note 4 and my wife Moto 360 also with Note 4. No problems at all ...
Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
I think a few of us did, but I'm returning mine. The quality and community just isn't there.
I have it. I am digging it. Hoping the community gets a little stronger but if not, I am still happy. FTR, I am rocking a Pixel 3 XL and a One Plus 6T as well.
I got it, loving it so far.
I have one, and am loving it as well. But the accessory community is depressing, especially with what seems available for the 1. Still, holding out hope yet....
Few days ago I went to 3 shop in the UK with intention of choosing between Pixel 3 XL, Note 9 and Mate 20Pro. But just one look at this beauty changed my mind. It has been years since I have seen android phone design I really liked. I hope that accesories will become available but it is not a deal braker for me. I ordered green case from razer as for the rest I do not care that much. I use magnetic holder for a car so nothing changes here. Bluetooth headset you can choose whatever you like. Actualy only case is phone specific acessory for me nowadays...
Coming from razer 1
This phone is amazing
Since razer 1, the advances are:
* Vibration motor actually works as you'd expect
* Camera, specifically with GCam is outstanding compared to Razer 1 (same Sony lenses as Pixel 3 - we have big potential.)
* Waterproof, bonus
* Screen slightly but evidently brighter
* Loudspeaker incall volume is louder/clearer
* Speakers are just as loud and true as Razer 1
* The overall speed enhanced with 845cpu, not that the Razer 1 was a slug, it was actually the fastest user experience until this Razer 2.
Honestly, all that marketed placebo they place on us with the big shot companies doesn't phase me... This phone is unprecedented. If you know tech and don't buy a phone based on the quality of its camera facility like most folk, then this is the connoisseurs choice.
Forget the development community, it didn't exist on Razer 1, not do I expect it to here. However it's not needed. The phone is already 99% stock without bloat.
The phone is G.O.A.T
dillalade said:
Coming from razer 1
This phone is amazing
Since razer 1, the advances are:
* Vibration motor actually works as you'd expect
* Camera, specifically with GCam is outstanding compared to Razer 1 (same Sony lenses as Pixel 3 - we have big potential.)
* Waterproof, bonus
* Screen slightly but evidently brighter
* Loudspeaker incall volume is louder/clearer
* Speakers are just as loud and true as Razer 1
* The overall speed enhanced with 845cpu, not that the Razer 1 was a slug, it was actually the fastest user experience until this Razer 2.
Honestly, all that marketed placebo they place on us with the big shot companies doesn't phase me... This phone is unprecedented. If you know tech and don't buy a phone based on the quality of its camera facility like most folk, then this is the connoisseurs choice.
Forget the development community, it didn't exist on Razer 1, not do I expect it to here. However it's not needed. The phone is already 99% stock without bloat.
The phone is G.O.A.T
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I do not really expect huge custom ROM support, a reliable root method that doesn't trip safetynet (and thus still allows android pay) would be enough for me to buy it.
jaredtritsch said:
While I do not really expect huge custom ROM support, a reliable root method that doesn't trip safetynet (and thus still allows android pay) would be enough for me to buy it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And TWRP and Xposed of course
As for custom ROM stuff, it seems to be off to a good start. No need to be plugged in to get into fastboot anymore. It's actually surprisingly easy to get the button combo right (Vol- and Pwr). The bootloader even has an unlock menu option so the bootloader can even be unlocked without a PC involved! I've never seen that before lol. It bodes well. I did kernel dev for some of my previous devices so I'm really eager for those sources. Hopefully they keep up that end of the bargain.
I think I'm getting one, just want to see it and the OnePlus 6T in person before I decide. Any thoughts on how long it will take to get root? That's pretty important to me, but not having it right away isn't a problem.
Schizzlefuzz said:
I think I'm getting one, just want to see it and the OnePlus 6T in person before I decide. Any thoughts on how long it will take to get root? That's pretty important to me, but not having it right away isn't a problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It becomes possible but difficult when kernel sources drop, and pretty much guaranteed when factory images become available, provided Razer didn't make any significant security enhancements to stock Android (unlikely though). Razer released the sources fairly soon after the first one released, but that's not a guarantee.
EDIT: come to think it's possible earlier if someone manages to capture an OTA with a kernel image. I didn't think of that while unboxing and just let it update
EDIT2: Managed to coax bootloader to switch back to old slot so I can take the OTA again. Or brick it. Will see I guess
One point against Razer for the bootloader still being a finicky, terrifying mess. At least it's easier to get into now...
EDIT3: OK capturing the OTA not going so well before the device is set up cause ADB is not available and its downloaded through a verified SSL connection. Will have to wait for the next one
CurtisMJ said:
It becomes possible but difficult when kernel sources drop, and pretty much guaranteed when factory images become available, provided Razer didn't make any significant security enhancements to stock Android (unlikely though). Razer released the sources fairly soon after the first one released, but that's not a guarantee.
EDIT: come to think it's possible earlier if someone manages to capture an OTA with a kernel image. I didn't think of that while unboxing and just let it update
EDIT2: Managed to coax bootloader to switch back to old slot so I can take the OTA again. Or brick it. Will see I guess
One point against Razer for the bootloader still being a finicky, terrifying mess. At least it's easier to get into now...
EDIT3: OK capturing the OTA not going so well before the device is set up cause ADB is not available and its downloaded through a verified SSL connection. Will have to wait for the next one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I ended up getting it and will have it tomorrow if you want me to do something to help out.
CurtisMJ said:
As for custom ROM stuff, it seems to be off to a good start. No need to be plugged in to get into fastboot anymore. It's actually surprisingly easy to get the button combo right (Vol- and Pwr). The bootloader even has an unlock menu option so the bootloader can even be unlocked without a PC involved! I've never seen that before lol. It bodes well. I did kernel dev for some of my previous devices so I'm really eager for those sources. Hopefully they keep up that end of the bargain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where is this being discussed? The forum here is barren and r/razerphone isn't showing much news either.
Schizzlefuzz said:
Well I ended up getting it and will have it tomorrow if you want me to do something to help out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately not much can be done while setting it up since the wizard's response to trying to get past the update screen is a firm "YOU SHALL NOT PASS". The ota link can potentially be captured only on a fully set up phone through ADB or a bug report. So we have to wait for the next OTA or a source/image drop from Razer if we want to root safely.
---------- Post added at 12:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 PM ----------
jaredtritsch said:
Where is this being discussed? The forum here is barren and r/razerphone isn't showing much news either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was just commenting on the ease of unlocking which is usually a prerequisite. I'm not saying there's already dev going on, just that the device seems like a good candidate
I've got one. I think it's great! Haven't unlocked the bootloader or anything yet. For me, the battery life has been very impressive. I don't have a ton of apps, nor do I game really, but I can easily get it to last 2 days with 4 hours of Screen On Time and several hours of phone calls with 20% battery left.
translucentfocus said:
I've got one. I think it's great! Haven't unlocked the bootloader or anything yet. For me, the battery life has been very impressive. I don't have a ton of apps, nor do I game really, but I can easily get it to last 2 days with 4 hours of Screen On Time and several hours of phone calls with 20% battery left.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
VZW??
deafmetal1 said:
VZW??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes
translucentfocus said:
Yes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So did you have to call to get the CDMA-less profile added?
jal3223 said:
So did you have to call to get the CDMA-less profile added?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I did not. I originally tried using an older SIM that I had in my previous phone & the phone worked... but txts would not come through. When I finally relented and tried to use the BYOD wizard on verizonwireless.com--the website said I needed a new SIM for my phone.
So, I brought my Razer Phone 2 to the Verizon Store (this is a day or two after Verizon had certified the phone). The Verizon Rep, who was assisting me, brought out a handful of sim cards and tried scanning each one with a handheld scanner. It took several tries, but she found one that I'm assuming their system would accept and then I was good to go. Based on my observations, it looks like the phone requires a pretty-specific SIM card for Verizon's system to activate it.
Doubt this helps you though.
Hi!
I am thinking of buying the Samsung s10+ snapdragon variant soon, is it worth it? Can you root the snapdragon variant?
Current users how the SoT? Are you satisfied with your phone? Does your phone heat up in normal use?
Please let me know and help me with my decision!
Thank you!
The Snapdragon's are generally notoriously hard to root. However I would get the Snapdragon variant anyway. Both my N10+'s are stock Snapdragon's and run well.
New S10+'s like the Note 10+'s are still available if you want. Get one running on Android 9 or 10, the new one are likely running on 10.
I would avoid going higher than 10.
I just bought a new N10+ 5 months ago so yeah I think it's worth it. Personally I'm not one bit pleased with the path Samsung or Google Android are going... so I cancelled their dumb arse's.
blackhawk said:
The Snapdragon's are generally notoriously hard to root. However I would get the Snapdragon variant anyway. Both my N10+'s are stock Snapdragon's and run well.
New S10+'s like the Note 10+'s are still available if you want. Get one running on Android 9 or 10, the new one are likely running on 10.
I would avoid going higher than 10.
I just bought a new N10+ 5 months ago so yeah I think it's worth it. Personally I'm not one bit pleased with the path Samsung or Google Android are going... so I cancelled their dumb arse's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can see on gsmarena that oneui 4.1 update puts the s10+ on android 12 tho.
Is that a bad thing?
a safe haven said:
I can see on gsmarena that oneui 4.1 update puts the s10+ on android 12 tho.
Is that a bad thing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I for one don't want scoped storage. It's eats extra cpu cycles and is incompatible with many older apps. It makes sharing a common user database much harder. Apple crapware.
Any Android OS version from 9 up is relatively secure*. As you move from Android 9 to 10 certain trusted apps like Karma Firewall become much less functional.
Scoped storage is fully active in Android 11, I believe but not in 10 apparently from what I see.
Android 12 is a dog and causing many problems in general. Android 10 is reasonably functional but I'm not upgrading my N10+ that's running on 9 to it if that tells you something. Eventually in 2-3 years Google and its 3rd party developers may sort it out. For now though... I'm not using it.
If I wanted scoped storage I'd have an Apple...
*case in point, this N10+ I'm holding hasn't been updated in almost 2.5 years, the current load will be 2 yo in June. Still fast, stable with minimal maintenance. Malware hasn't been an issue.
In fact it's been app updates that have proved to be far more time consuming than any malware.
Last malware was found over 2 years ago and deleted with no lasting damage. Of course that could change today. All my critical data is redundantly backed up to multiple hdds... I'm ready if anything goes south.
Upgrades and updates can and do break things.
Rule#1 if the firmware is fast, stable and fulfilling its mission, let it be. I'm a conservative pragmatist... not a liberal hype driven Google moron.
Mini-rant
OK, so I have to rant (just briefly) about the whole state of Samsung phones at the moment. Basically, we spend gobs of money on expensive devices and get locked down pre-loaded junk in return. Oh, they are physically impressive, have good specs, and are aesthetically nice gadgets. But would you spend $1600 bucks on a new laptop that came with software you couldn’t remove and could only be upgraded for the next 4 years?!?!
I have wanted to experiment with LineageOS for years. I bought a used Samsung S8+ in 2018 and quickly found out that LineageOS was a no go because Samsung locks the bootloaders on all US and Canadian models. So, that was never going to happen unless some guru found a hack.
Now, five years later, I went out of my way to find a Global/European S10+ (an SM-G975F) specifically so that I could install LineageOS. Now, I managed to do that easily enough. But now I am stuck with a phone that has poor reception and slow LTE speeds because it is missing LTE bands used in Canada (i.e. the SM-G975F uses different bands than the SM-G975W).
So here we are… making tradeoffs again.
And while I like fiddling with things like this, I have to wonder... why are we here in the first place? I just want a phone that doesn’t come preloaded with junk that I don’t want. I don’t want Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, TikTok or even Office 365 pre-installed and non-removable. It is like moving into a new house and finding out that the builder picked out furniture for the living room and, while you can push it off to the side and cover it with a blanket, you can never actually remove it. Why is the builder picking out furniture for me in the first place?
Some will say they like the furniture the builder picked. Most will say they don’t hate it or that they found a way to cover it up sufficiently that they don’t really notice it anymore. That isn’t really the point though, is it?
LineageOS on the other hand comes with nothing that it shouldn’t. Oh, and you can have LineageOS if you like (if you stand on your head and find a way to order a phone from another market) but then you have crummy reception forever. Oh, and when you are done you are a 2nd class citizen who can't use the NFC chip on his/her phone to pay for things because you were a "bad person" who found a way to remove the builder's sofa from your living room.
Oh, there are tricks… download this tool or that… but some don’t work anymore because of update XYZ…
Why can’t I just turn on the LTE bands I need??!?! Like, seriously, why not?!?!
Or better yet, why doesn’t my phone do it for me when it sees the Bell SIM card?!?!
Whose phone is this anyway?!?!
The state of Samsung phones in North America is garbage. Full stop. Pure garbage. No, I am not being too harsh.
1) All phones should come with basic firmware that makes the phone work and nothing else. The phone should not be used as an on-ramp into whichever ecosystem is paying the manufacturer more. OEM apps (i.e. Samung Calculator, Samsung DeX, etc.) are fine but no 3rd party junk like Facebook and Instagram. That is what the store is for.
2) All bootloaders should be unlockable and re-lockable once custom firmware is loaded if that firmware is itself signed. No "tripping Knox" or this nonsense.
3) All radio/LTE/carrier settings should be accessible and customizable with easily selectable presets for major carriers worldwide.
Anything else is a closed ecosystem that doesn't respect your basic property rights.
OK, done ranting... Maybe someone from Samsung will notice and maybe it will make a difference.
Best regards,
The Fish
I run two stock N10+'s, a N975U and a N975U1.
Running on Android 9* and 10 respectively. Neither have had their firmware upgraded. I use Package Disabler to block about 70-80 apks and settings are heavily optimized. Both run fast, stable and fullfill their mission with almost no issues and little maintenance. Excellent SOT and standby time.
Both are compatible with AT&T and as such there are no reception issues. You check and verify this before you purchase. Slam the sim card in and they're good to go. Once optimized and running well, don't upgrade firmware or update apps and it will run fine for years. Don't do the above and you will need to find work arounds... if they exist.
Current load on this N10+ will be 3yo this June. No malware during that time. Still looks, feels and runs like new. Only repair has been a battery. After a steep learning curve I'm very pleased with these devices. They are still a joy to use. However I can't say the same for the proceeding Samsung flagships and will never own one of them for a litany of reasons*.
Samsung phones with/in this SOC/generation can run well in capable hands, stock, if used as described.
*has last Android 9 firmware update
**lol, don't get me started
blackhawk said:
Neither have had their firmware upgraded. I use Package Disabler to block about 70-80 apks and settings are heavily optimized. Both run fast, stable and fullfill their mission with almost no issues and little maintenance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This kind of proves my point. I am not saying there isn't a way to get your Samsung phone running the way you want it. I am saying that the hoops we have to jump through and the tradeoffs we have to make are unacceptable.
Why do you have to use Package Disabler to block about 70-80 apks?!?! Why should you have to block *any* APKs at all?
Why do you have to stick with old, outdated firmware? Why do you have to make this tradeoff? Why do we have to have a hostile relationship with Samsung?
Why can't we have a nice phone, no bloatware, no junk, no apps we don't want. Get updates for a reasonable amount of time (i.e. till the hardware no longer supports it)?
blackhawk said:
Both are compatible with AT&T and as such there are no reception issues. You check and verify this before you purchase. Slam the sim card in and they're good to go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure. And I knew ahead of time when I purchased the Global S10+ (the SM-G975F) that it didn't support all the same LTE bands as the Canadian model (the SM-G975W). But again, I had to make tradeoffs because I wanted to run LineageOS. Again, why do we have to choose between two crummy options?!?! Where are the good options?!?
I am daring to imagine a world where this is better. Really, we used to have phones locked to service providers and 5-year contracts. Those were the bad old days. But these days right now (with the bloatware, etc.) are also not great. It reminds me of the Windows XP era of PCs where you would buy a new PC and be prompted to sign up for 100 different services upon initial bootup. Only difference then was you could re-install the operating system on your PC and free yourself from the OEM bloatware. But now, with phones, they make even that impossible with locked bootloaders.
Basically, if I could unlock the bootloader of a Canadian SM-G975W that would be ideal. Any why isn't it like that anyway?!?! Isn't that the way it should be to begin with?
Locked bootloaders with no option to unlock should be illegal.
The Fish
thefish123 said:
This kind of proves my point. I am not saying there isn't a way to get your Samsung phone running the way you want it. I am saying that the hoops we have to jump through and the tradeoffs we have to make are unacceptable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a pragmatist, I use what works.
thefish123 said:
Why do you have to use Package Disabler to block about 70-80 apks?!?! Why should you have to block *any* APKs at all?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's only blocking what I consider bloatware. 10 or 15 of those apks are apps I installed but chose to kept disabled 99% of the time.
thefish123 said:
Why do you have to stick with old, outdated firmware? Why do you have to make this tradeoff? Why do we have to have a hostile relationship with Samsung?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's your choice to upgrade and there's no reason to upgrade if the firmware is fulfilling its mission if you're running Android 9 or higher. If you lack wherewithal you pay a price...
thefish123 said:
Why can't we have a nice phone, no bloatware, no junk, no apps we don't want. Get updates for a reasonable amount of time (i.e. till the hardware no longer supports it)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Updates and upgrades aren't needed on an optimized device that's running well. New phones with the newest firmware are running like crap in case you didn't notice. Very little speed increase in most routine activities and horrible SOT on most.
thefish123 said:
Sure. And I knew ahead of time when I purchased the Global S10+ (the SM-G975F) that it didn't support all the same LTE bands as the Canadian model (the SM-G975W). But again, I had to make tradeoffs because I wanted to run LineageOS. Again, why do we have to choose between two crummy options?!?! Where are the good options?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you knew there be connectivity issues and that should have flagged it. Custom roms have custom problems with a limited user/support base.
thefish123 said:
I am daring to imagine a world where this is better. Really, we used to have phones locked to service providers and 5-year contracts. Those were the bad old days. But these days right now (with the bloatware, etc.) are also not great. It reminds me of the Windows XP era of PCs where you would buy a new PC and be prompted to sign up for 100 different services upon initial bootup. Only difference then was you could re-install the operating system on your PC and free yourself from the OEM bloatware. But now, with phones, they make even that impossible with locked bootloaders.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not that bad if you shop smart. I bought out my AT&T N10+ at 2 years. It's almost identical to my carrier unlocked variant. I want the boot loader locked for security. No way I'm touching the firmware as these are premium flagships that run extremely well as is. I have very little to gain and lots to lose... including time.
thefish123 said:
Basically, if I could unlock the bootloader of a Canadian SM-G975W that would be ideal. Any why isn't it like that anyway?!?! Isn't that the way it should be to begin with?
Locked bootloaders with no option to unlock should be illegal.
The Fish
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You buy Samsung flagships for the premium hardware and then work within the framework that's available and what works best for you. You can root the Exynos variants but their hardware is almost always inferior to the Snaps. Consequences.
At this point both Samsung and Android newest products are so out of line that they are unusable to me. I don't care what they do, screw them. I'm in a holding pattern for 3+ more years happily using my N10+'s... I don't care. All my issues are worked out because I threw time at them to do so and I'm very satisfied with the outcome.
In 3+ years I will reevaluate the situation and decide what to do. Right now as things stand I don't reccomend any new Samsung's or anything Android version above Android 10. Unfortunately I have no easy solutions for you other than what I did. Even that isn't simple fix but it's a zero risk fix. I refuse to risk damaging these N10+'s by mucking with their firmware unless its needed for repair.
blackhawk said:
Well you knew there be connectivity issues and that should have flagged it. Custom roms have custom problems with a limited user/support base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason I purchased this specific model was so that I could run a custom ROM. But the connectivity issues are not caused by the custom rom. They are caused by the fact that I am using a phone designed for a different market where different LTE bands are used.
And yes, I knew that ahead of time. And I am not regretting that. But you are missing the point. The radio in my phone is perfectly capable of using the LTE bands that my carrier uses. So why shouldn't there be a straightforward way to enable them?
What if I used to live in Europe and moved to Canada? Should I be forced to buy a new phone just because Samsung doesn't let me change LTE bands? Or if I travel between Europe and Canada on business then I just have to suffer with crummy reception?
My point is one of ownership, property rights.
thefish123 said:
The reason I purchased this specific model was so that I could run a custom ROM. But the connectivity issues are not caused by the custom rom. They are caused by the fact that I am using a phone designed for a different market where different LTE bands are used.
And yes, I knew that ahead of time. And I am not regretting that. But you are missing the point. The radio in my phone is perfectly capable of using the LTE bands that my carrier uses. So why shouldn't there be a straightforward way to enable them?
What if I used to live in Europe and moved to Canada? Should I be forced to buy a new phone just because Samsung doesn't let me change LTE bands? Or if I travel between Europe and Canada on business then I just have to suffer with crummy reception?
My point is one of ownership, property rights.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Connectivity is paramount. Regardless of what your user rights should be, you need to work within the limits of the options available. The square peg round hole thing...
You may be able to enable those bands and that's probably where you should be directing your energy. I purposely try to avoid having to do that as much as possible and never had to. You dove down the rabbit hole, hopefully it's not too deep. Try looking at the hidden phone user settings first... I guess.
blackhawk said:
Connectivity is paramount. Regardless of what your user rights should be, you need to work within the limits of the options available. The square peg round hole thing...
You may be able to enable those bands and that's probably where you should be directing your energy. I purposely try to avoid having to do that as much as possible and never had to. You dove down the rabbit hole, hopefully it's not too deep. Try looking at the hidden phone user settings first... I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I agree. Being a phone is the most important thing that a phone does. And I am directing my energies in that direction as well. But in the process, it occures to me that a messed-up antagonistic anti-customer ecosystem this whole thing is. We would *never* accept this from a computer company, a car manufacturer, or a home builder. Yet, for some reason, we accept it from phone makers like Samsung and that we need to work within these [artificially imposed] limits.
Anyway, yes, there used to be a hidden phone menu (why hidden?) that would have let me enable the bands that I need. But Samsung removed it sometime last year with an update. Again, why?!?!
I'll keep looking. I'm sure I will figure out something in time inspite of Samsung, not because of them.
The Fish
What OS version are you on?
The band selections are probably still there although means of access may have changed.
My knowledge in this area is very limited. The sim card always configured it perfectly for me.
Best to check with your carrier to be sure that phone model is on their white list.
You could try seeing if someone help you from your carrier tech support...sometimes you get lucky if you try enough.
blackhawk said:
What OS version are you on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am running LineageOS 19.1.
blackhawk said:
The band selections are probably still there although means of access may have changed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The band selection app is categorically *not* there anymore because it A) it was part of the Samsung firmware and B) even if I was on Samsung firmware it wouldn't be there anymore either because Samsung removed it.
There used to be a tool you could download that would allow you to access the "hidden" band selection app. But it stopped working because Samsung removed the hidden app altogeather. Like I said in my original post on this thread "Oh, there are tricks… download this tool or that… but some don’t work anymore because of update XYZ…"
My point is that the whole nonsense of disabled bands and locked bootloaders is infuriating. I is like buying a computer that can only access the internet at full speed in Europe and if you fly to Canada and use it there you get penalized with 1/2 speed. Oh, and even through you could change it with the flip of a switch that switch is buried, disabled, hidden behind locked doors.
The Google Pixel 7 Pro has all the bands turned on (i.e. there is one phone for the whole world) and the boot loader is unlocked. Just saying...
At some point I will probably prevail in getting the bands I need turned on. And then I will likely be very happy with this phone for the next 5+ years. But none of that changes the fact that this anti-consumer predatory behavior on the part of Samsung is unacceptable.
The Fish