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Is it best to do long charges then let it drain, or is it safe to for example use the phone ten mins and put it back on the mat for ten then use again and so on. Does constantly charging mess things up?
Thanks.
swainclubber said:
Is it best to do long charges then let it drain, or is it safe to for example use the phone ten mins and put it back on the mat for ten then use again and so on. Does constantly charging mess things up?
Thanks.
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Your phone's battery should be fine as long as it's not overheating.
Most of today's batteries are built to last, which means if you are actually abusing wireless charging, you will start noticing not before 1 year from now(estimated.). And by then, most people have switched their devices. Therefore, it might be damaging you battery, I'm not an expert, but you should not start seeing any bad impact on your phone in the near future.
Other people's opinions might be more helpful than mine, but you should keep this in mind.
Cheers for your opinion. All are greatly appreciated.
guetzli32 said:
Your phone's battery should be fine as long as it's not overheating.
Most of today's batteries are built to last, which means if you are actually abusing wireless charging, you will start noticing not before 1 year from now(estimated.). And by then, most people have switched their devices. Therefore, it might be damaging you battery, I'm not an expert, but you should not start seeing any bad impact on your phone in the near future.
Other people's opinions might be more helpful than mine, but you should keep this in mind.
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Right on, and by this time next year the OEM batteries will be cheaper and thus just replace them
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
swainclubber said:
Is it best to do long charges then let it drain, or is it safe to for example use the phone ten mins and put it back on the mat for ten then use again and so on. Does constantly charging mess things up?
Thanks.
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Click to collapse
Almost no one charges batteries the ideal way.. well, because it's inconvenient to do so. Fortunately battery technology is getting better every year, batteries take longer to wear out and are (slowly) getting cheaper to replace when it comes to that.
The ideal way to charge a battery depends on the type of battery. The S5 uses a lithium ion batteries. Ideally you would charge a Li-ion battery slowly, not deep cycle it, protect the battery from hot environments and (idealy) stop charging around 85%.
Heat is the major enemy, battery life is shortened by a factor of two for every 10°C increase above 25°C. High cell voltages and cycling would fill out the top three list of things you'd like to avoid to maximize battery life.
So what does all that mean? Frequent wireless charging is beneficial if your battery charge is < 85%, because you don't want to deep cycle and slow charging (which wireless is) is better than a fast charge cycle for battery life. And a moderate stress if you are charging it when the battery is > 85%. Do what you can to avoid high heat e.g. don't leave your phone in a very hot car on a sunny day if you can avoid it. And if you go Skiing or store your phone in a freezer for some reason.. let it warm up a bit before trying to charge it.
Most of us will charge our phones even if the battery charge is > 85% though because we want to maximize run time, even though the higher voltages above 85% are a detriment to battery life. It's a trade off between utility and battery life. Battery life is conservatively specified around 500 charge cycles these days.. but that is a loosely defined term with a lot of associated variables. Depending on how you use your phone.. your battery may go six months, a year, even two years before you notice that your run time just doesn't cut it anymore.
I'd say don't worry about wireless charging. Charge it as frequently as you like. But try to keep your phone cool (out of the sun) when you can.
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Cheers for that appreciated. However wireless charging on my setup involves a fair amount of heat
Wireless charging is relatively inefficient. Which means that there will be some waste heat generated. But it varies substantially on the brand of charger and whether you are using an resonant or inductive design. My wireless charger produces minimal heat.
Unless you measure the temperature.. it's hard to gage whether the heat from yours is a serious issue or not. Mine increases the surface temperature ~ 5C.
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Would you mind sharing which charger you use?
fffft said:
Wireless charging is relatively inefficient. Which means that there will be some waste heat generated. But it varies substantially on the brand of charger and whether you are using an resonant or inductive design. My wireless charger produces minimal heat.
Unless you measure the temperature.. it's hard to gage whether the heat from yours is a serious issue or not. Mine increases the surface temperature ~ 5C.
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lordhamster said:
Would you mind sharing which charger you use?
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How good are you with Orcad and a soldering iron?
I built my own @ 3.57 Mhz, which is also a non-standard (but very efficient) coupling frequency.
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swainclubber said:
Is it best to do long charges then let it drain, or is it safe to for example use the phone ten mins and put it back on the mat for ten then use again and so on. Does constantly charging mess things up?
Thanks.
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Lithium-ion battery nowadays does not have memory effect. So constant recharging and disconnecting is fine.
Cheers folks.
Hello friends,
So I just got my Note 4 and i'm wondering how long should I keep it in charge for the first time? And should I drain it on first use or charge it when it's at let's say 20%??
Thanks in advance.
14 hrs, dont drain, battery should be between 20-80% before charging in normal use, fast charge off.
@zurkx
Thanks for the reply.
Are you sure about the 14 hours??? I thought Li-ion batteries don't need that long of a charging time !!!
XeroHertZ said:
@zurkxAre you sure about the 14 hours??? I thought Li-ion batteries don't need that long of a charging time !!!
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Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
Chefproll said:
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
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Thanks Chefprol.I have done some research on charging the battery and have come to a conclusion that once it's charged I can use it straight away but and then drain it to 18 to 20% then charge it fully.
Chefproll said:
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
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Thanks ! i tought it would be a old myth to first drain the batery and then fully load it but as far as i know its only with old phones and mp3 players and such.
hope i will get my note 4 today ! waiting for it since monday
Fast Charge is not really a useful feature for me, it just hurts the battery more in the long run
what about the thoughts on conditioning the battery?
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app
There's no need to condition the battery, its a lithium battery.
If you're having battery drain issues I would suggest you clear your data cache.
ddaharu said:
what about the thoughts on conditioning the battery?
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app
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this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
dont listen to fools.
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that. best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life. if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
Who's post are you referring to?
zurkx said:
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
dont listen to fools.
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that. best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life. if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
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arjun90 said:
Who's post are you referring to?
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It's mine. That guy already bumped into me a while ago, now it's time for his revenge.
I'll care for that, now...
---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 PM ----------
zurkx said:
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
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So here we go; you asked for it...
My critism about the Note 4 refers to it's GPS receiver, which is "deaf" compared to the competition and shows frequent signal drops.
More here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-4/general/gps-close-to-unusable-t2948602
dont listen to fools.
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Indeed - have a look:
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
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I already advised to realize this is 2014 battery technology, not the ancient batteries of the past.
Short: There is no "trickle charge" with Lithium-Ion-batteries.
See this: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries - quote: "The difference lies in a higher voltage per cell, tighter voltage tolerance and the absence of trickle or float charge at full charge."
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that.
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Quote: "The charge rate of a typical consumer Li-ion battery is between 0.5 and 1C in Stage 1, and the charge time is about three hours. Manufacturers recommend charging the 18650 cell at 0.8C or less."
"C" is the capacity, 3220 mAh with our Note 4's battery. So we're save to charge with a current (milliamperes, "mA") of up to 3220 mA - if we follow the manufacturer's advice for the older type of batteries of that kind (18650 is an old warrior in the field), there's still 2576 A left.
So what does our fast charge supply deliver ? Look at it's ratings: 5 V, 2 A (2000 mA).
So even fast charge is far below the limits - our real limit is 3220 mA, but fast charging just uses 2000 mA.
Sound and safe.
Wonder about me highlighting "higher voltage" in zurkx's highly elaborate statement in red ? - Answer is above: The voltage does NOT change, it is NOT higher. Of course not !
The worst enemies of LiIon batteries are heat and age.
Heat is generated by a) placing the device at a hot spot (like behind the car's windscreen or in bright sunlight), b) by using demanding features like 4K video recording or highend games, c) by charging .
a) Your call. Just don't let your Note get hot. Overheating destroys your battery in no time. We're lucky we've got an exchangeable battery - so nothing to really worry about.
b) Your call. See a).
c) Charging produces some heat, especially on the "last mile", when the battery is "almost full", because the battery is a bit reluctant of getting charged up to the brim. So more heat is generated in that last phase. It's not much, won't reach the safety limits. It just can't, because the build-in charging circuits limits the current if heat gets up.
By the way: That integrated charging circuits are propped with safety measures, checking charge, condition, temperature and the like.
So even if you hook up a charger capable of providing 20 whopping amperes, the circuits just won't let that happen.
There is no way of providing the battery too much current; it's automatically limited.
best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life.
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Again; welcome to the 21st century. We don't need any slow charge. It's the opposite.
Charging right slow has the danger that apps on the phone draw more power than the charge provides. That may drain your battery instead of filling it.
Plus: If you hook up the charger for long, it will be recharged (charge gets "topped off") frequenly. And every new charging attempt has a slightly negative impact on the battery's life; it's like wearing it a bit down. - Charge often, reduce your battery's life. That damage is tiny, by the way. But it is there, so hooking up your charger for many hours slowly kills your battery.
Now for the aging:
if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
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LiIon battery ARE AGING, up from the time of manufacture.
You all know that: You charge a device like you're told by the instructions - but after 1 to 3 years you notice a severe drop of usage time, a drop of capacity.
That's aging.
NOTHING you can do against that but buying a new battery.
So your battery will lose it's capacity over time; if you use it or not. You all know that, you all experienced that.
With the Note 4, we can happily buy a new battery if the old one runs out; it's that simple. But as a normal Li Ion battery reaches it's shelf live after 2 or 3 years anyway, there's NO (!) need of burdening it and you with slow charge. The results are exactly the same, with the difference that you save precious time with fast charging.
And now allow me quoting again:
dont listen to fools.
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Have a nice day, all of you except one.
youre completely wrong.
The QuickCharge tech charges at higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE.
http://www.androidauthority.com/quick-charge-explained-563838/
Quick Charge 2.0
Voltages 5v 5v / 9v / 12v
Max Current 2A 3A
Snapdragon 200, 400, 410, 615, 800, 801, 805
The rest is just BS as usual. You have no idea what youre talking about. Dumping 9V (Samsung Note 4 AFC) into a 5V battery makes it charge hotter and faster and degrades it significantly. After two weeks of fast charge i lost a small chunk off the top of my brand new battery.
just bad advice as usual.
zurkx said:
youre completely wrong.
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Yes, indeed. I was completely wrong by believing you'd understand some simple things.
In fact, I am not sure if I should take your statements for serious or just for a joke.
The QuickCharge tech charges at higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE.
Voltages 5v 5v / 9v / 12v
Max Current 2A 3A
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So you REALLY believe that changes of the output voltage of the POWER SUPPLY lead to the BATTERY charged with more volts ?
You can't be serious. That's technically impossible.
Let's put it easy:
If you insert your power supply into a 110 V receptacle in the USA, you get 5 V output.
So according to your "logic", using the same power supply in Europe (230 V) increases the voltage to 10 V ?
No. Just NO.
That higher POWER SUPPLY voltage is used for fulfilling the rule W = V * A (Watt = Volt * Ampere); just to be able to squeeze more power through the power supply's cable.
In the Note 4 and in the charging circuit, that voltage OF COURSE will be regulated down to the regular charging voltage - just with the benefit to carry more amperes.
So the CHARGING VOLTAGE stays the same; it does NOT follow the voltage supplied by the POWER SUPPLY. It never does.
So fast charging does NOT (read that: NOT !) increase the charging voltage. It cannot.
Got that now ? - Or do I need to put it ever more simple ?
It does not help using swearing words like "fool" or "bull****".
But it could help just saying: "Oh, sorry, I was wrong. - My apologies."
Make yourself at home with the basics of lithium ion and charging technology. THEN speak up.
Ah, overlooked something:
After two weeks of fast charge i lost a small chunk off the top of my brand new battery.
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1) Hope that chunk fell somewhere you were able to pick it up again.
2) How to you KNOW that ? I expect a detailled description about how you did the magic of finding out that your battery doesn't charge to 100 %.
3) If you KNEW that fast charging would kill your battery, wise man - why did you allegedly use the feature ? - Sorry, man... Your statements are not very trustworthy. I guess you never used that feature, just say so to strengthen your shaky point of view. Please don't mess with a perception psychologist.
4) If your battery really suffered, that might be due to your highly acclaimed and absolutely pointless 14-hours-charging-marathons, causing a permanent charge on/charge off cycle, weakening your battery.
So please just stop bashing a real useful feature of the Note 4. If you just love waiting ages for batteries to charge - your preference. But please stop spreading false facts about things you very obviously are not at home with.
And a last thing which might stop that aimless harassing fire of yours: I am HAM, a licenced amateur radio operator, holding the highest German licence class. These are the people who know a bit about volts and amperes.
how hard is it for you to understand that quickcharge 2.0 outputs higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE to charge the battery ? The charger charges the BATTERY AT 9V 1.67A up to 50% and then switches over to the regular 5V 2A charge rate. INPUT VOLTAGE (110V or 230V) has nothing to do with OUTPUT VOLTAGE. It charges the battery at 9V REGARDLESS of INPUT VOLTAGE.
edit:
also it has nothing to do with the cable. you must be crazy if you think a cable issue exists whether you transfer 15W or 10W across it. the cable is rated for well beyond that. the reason for the higher voltage is that modern lithium ions can accept high voltage charge rates with limited damage at low amperage. the reason they cut it off at 50% is the battery would be severely damaged if you tried to charge it to 100% and overshot. so yes quickcharge 2.0 really does charge your battery at a higher voltage than it was designed to be charged at. and no they dont have a magical transformer on your phone to go from 9V to 5V. otherwise they would be using it all the time and fast charge 9V to 100%. the wall plug is the only thing which has a transformer and the phone uses what it gets from there. they arent going to build half of another wall plug (9V DC-DC) and stuff it into the phone. it would generate heat and add bulk. Instead the PMIC "spikes" the battery with higher voltage and keeps it roughly constant (load modulation) by communicating with the quickcharge 2.0 AFC on the other end.
Hopeless.
I just love these battery threads, there's always some muppet who says the battery needs conditioning and must first be charged for a suitably ridiculous length of time. When it's charged it's charged, lithium batteries have no memory effect so the idea of conditioning them is moronic
Sent from my SM-N910F using XDA Free mobile app
yes they have no memory effect. why ? because you say so.
other people believe otherwise because they actually test things out for themselves :
http://www.psi.ch/media/memory-effect-now-also-found-in-lithium-ion-batteries
http://pocketnow.com/2013/05/03/li-ion-batteries-memory-effect
http://www.nature.com/nmat/journal/v12/n6/full/nmat3623.html
no need to keep it for 14 hours, as they said in the catalog you only need to charge it till it's full, then unplug the charger.
Hello again !
After all cooled down a bit, here's some more information about that dreaded HIGH VOLTAGE fast charging uses which seemingly makes some of you wet your pants.
First, there's an experiment you can do yourself. You don't need to do - but it's quite impressive and gives you some proof of the things I say.
Get two 9 V batteries; the small rectangle ones we all know. Connect the positive contact of the first battery with the negative contact of the second. Thus you get an 18 volts DC power source.
Get a thin, isolated wire, short-circuit the open contacts with the wire. Wait.
Nothing special will happen, maybe the wire will get a little warm - and your batteries will eventually die.
(If you use a VERY thing wires, it might heat up.)
Now take a length of the same wire, do the same using your car's battery (12 – 13.8 V DC).
WARNING !
1) Take the battery out of the car, set it on solid ground with nothing combustible near !!! Do NOT try this with the battery still in the car !!!
2) Use pliers to connect the wire with the battery contacts !!!
3) Do that OUTDOORS !!!
Short-circuit the battery contacts using the pliers with the wire.
You don't need to wait. The cable will turn into a smoking, burning, white-hot thing in an instant.
Huh ? - We've got 18 V with just nothing happening, we've got just 12 V wreaking instant havoc and destruction !?
Amperage is the key !
Voltage alone does not cause the destruction, it's the amperage.
9 V batteries cannot provide sufficient amperes for killing the wire; 12 V car batteries do.
Short: High amperage kills wires, high voltage doesn't.
So back to our topic...
To fast charge our Note 4's battery, we need power, watts. But the tiny wires in the Note 4 can't withstand a high wattage; they would heat up like the wire connected to the 12 V car battery.
So Samsung uses a little trick, according to Ohm's law: W = V * A, W is watts, V is volts, A is amperes.
So we can achieve a high wattage by EITHER using a higher voltage OR a higher amperage.
Higher amperage does not work because it will kill the tiny wires in the Note.
So Samsung raised the voltage for carrying more watts from the power supply via the internal Note 4's cabling to the charging circuit.
That higher voltage gets transformed down to the normal charging voltage at the charging circuit.
Your battery is charged with the usual voltage, but with the benefits of a higher amperage.
That's all the magic: That higher voltage is used to carry more wattage to the charging circuit, but not beyond. Nothing else.
And that's why it does not harm your battery; charging voltage will not change - your battery just gets charged faster, always monitored by the charging circuit which will lower the charge accordingly if needed, so your battery will always be safe. That's why the "last mile" (charge from about 92 % to 100 %) takes more time to charge - because the charging circuit automatically lowers the charge to protect your battery.
So don't be afraid of that higher voltage; it never reaches your battery, it is just a means for transferring higher wattage via tiny wires.
Note: You ever wondered why Europeans use 230 V instead of 110 V ? - That's the reason. Being able to carry more watts over regular power lines without risking the wires heating up too much. It's not a means of destruction, it's the opposite.
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
This is a question i would like to know the answer to as well
I did a slow charge last night and the battery seemed to discharge s little slower this morning fwiw, but that's not terribly scientific.
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
Darnell_Chat_TN said:
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
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Could you please point me towards that thread? I didn't locate it with a few search combinations. Thanks.
Mississip said:
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
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Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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wrong. the only thing that damages cells is charging beyond the voltage specifications. How fast you dump electrons in has no negative effects, its only when you put too many in that batteries get damaged.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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Thank you. I had thought the same thing. No one had the time to give me any detailed information, so I researched. I can't post links, but the following articles are helpful and will show up first in a search for the title
'Will speed chargers kill your battery?'
'BU-401a: Fast and Ultra-fast Chargers'
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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Exactly.
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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I had researched the topic and learned what you have stated, but I really appreciate you taking the time to write this fuller explanation. I wished to take every reasonable precaution to maximize battery life, given the battery is not easily replaced.
There have been references published claiming that charging faster (higher current) shortens overall Li-Ion battery life.
Mechanism may be related to heat.
One thing the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (used in the Snapdragon 808) does is increase voltage at the charger from standard USB 5V, to 9V and 12V, for higher charge rates (power) at still-moderate current (to keep heat dissipation down).
I measured 1.1 to 2.3 amps at ~9V with QC 2.0 charger on the MXPE, with the higher current measurements at lower State of Charge (SoC). Have not seen 12V yet, but I only tried it down to 45% SoC (2.3 amps at 9V), I imagine it bumps up to 12V when the battery is discharged further, nearer to complete discharge.
This charger is rated for
5V, 4A
9V, 2.22A
12V, 2.5A
20V, 1.0A
So the max power fed to the battery would be 28W (12V*2.5A).
(This is the Power Partners PEAW30-12-USB, supposedly a 30W charger. So much for integrity in advertising.)
So the current is kept to a manageable level to control heat dissipation (therefore max temperatures), from the charger to (somewhere in the phone). But I believe that at the battery itself, more rapid charging (higher power) would still require higher current, because voltages have to be limited in the battery itself, so one would think heat dissipation (> max temperatures) would still be a problem in the battery itself. Does that shorten battery life?
The answer is probably: Who cares. Because: Li-Ion batteries have a 2-3 year life in any case, regardless of their service life or even if they are not used at all. They age and exhibit substantial capacity decline over time. Discharge/charge cycles hasten the capacity decline, but the battery is only good for 2-3 years, give or take, no matter what. And since aftermarket replacement batteries are inferior, unsafe, and stale, there is no reason to try to hang on to your phone for more than 2-3 years in any case. (Especially since the "non-user-replaceable" batteries can be a pain in the a** to R&R. The Moto X Pure 2015 battery is one of those. Some phones actually incur permanent damage to seals if the battery is removed/replaced - the Kyocera Hydro Wave is this way.)
You say "but you could replace the battery with an OEM battery". There are two types of OEM Li-Ion phone batteries on the market that an individual consumer can buy retail, when their phone is 2 years old or more: Used stale batteries (look up "reverse logistics"), and "new" (i.e. not put into service yet) stale batteries. Good luck finding a fresh, new OEM Li-Ion battery for your 2 year old or older phone (out of production for at least a year).
Been down this road before. Wasted lots of time and money replacing phone batteries after 2-3 years. From now on I'm going to stop coddling phone batteries, stop replacing them after 2-3 years, and just figure on a new phone every 2-3 years. It's the only way to get a fresh, new Li-Ion phone battery. (And get the phone right when it is released, like the MXPE this month. That way you are more sure the battery is fresh.)
I think everything in the wireless phone paradigm is increasingly heading that way anyway. Everything, and I mean everything, pushes the market to a 2 year product life cycle. Batteries last 2 years. Increasingly, batteries are not made to be replaceable. Carriers are changing networks so fast you need a new phone every 2 for that alone. New OS/SW overloads hardware older than 2 years. Displays may fade over a couple years. USB connectors wear out. Just relax and go with it. Marvel at the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (I am). You'll be happier with a new phone every 2 years.
Sorry for the long rant.
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
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Yes, the Moto Turbo Charger can be used with any MicroUSB charging device. It will adjust charging as needed for the individual device. Moto made the Turbo Charger, to be a single charger for all MicroUSB devices.
If the battery is kept well charged, which Turbo Charging helps to accomplish. That's better to me, than more drain and slower chargers that leave the battery more drained overall. The batteries are supposed to last longer when kept fully charged more often.
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
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Click to collapse
"...since Quick Charge 2.0 is compatible and interoperable, a certified adapter can be used with a non-Quick Charge 2.0 device, though the fast charging benefits of Quick Charge 2.0 will not be available. "
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge/faq
By all appearances, Motorola's "TurboPower™ Charging" is nothing more than Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0. (That's what Snapdragon 808 in the XT1575 uses.)
The third-party Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 chargers I bought are recognized as "Turbo" and function with the XT1575, just like the Motorola charger that came with the XT1575.
(There are a LOT of Qualcomm-certified QC 2.0 chargers for sale by third-party names. Qualcomm has been BUSY. )
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
billubakra said:
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
acejavelin said:
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
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Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
billubakra said:
Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
acejavelin said:
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
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Thanks for the wonderful and detailed reply. I am going to try, not stick, to slow charging to see the difference in heating of the battery. My SIII's charger 's input is 150-300VAC, 50-60 hz 0.15AA, output- 5.0V-1.0A and S7's details are input 100-240V 50-60hz 0.5A, output- 9.0V= 1.67 A or 5.0V=2.0A. Can I use the S3's charger to charge S7 after turning of fast charge or is there a voltage difference or something? G4 is at home, don't know about its details. Also in my country the battery or the replacement parts are way too expensive.
Hello!
I just received my new S7 edge and boy I love it. I have charged it only twice and now as it is 11 pm and my phone is left with just 17% battery, I need to charge it.
So I usually charged my old HTC One M7 overnight, not thinking about how it might ruin or damage the battery.
But how about the S7 edge? When does the adapter in the outlet know, when to stop charging?
The S7 supports fast charging, which I am using.
But with 6 hours of sleep, won't it over-charge overnight?
Since it's still sending small electrical pulses into the battery even though it's full.
Please help me!
Charging overnight shouldn't do damage. However, try to decrease use of fast charging. It creates more heat than normal charging, and heat exposure damages the battery.
You also want to charge your battery before it hits 40%. This is due to how lithium ion batteries work. Also, most recommendations say charge only to 80%.
Anyway the gist is, basically, batteries work by ion movement, and like a machine, these ions wear out over time due to use. And similar to machines, heavy use wears them out more. You're more likely to break an engine by running it for 1 day at max rev, than running it over a month at half capacity. The smaller the depth of discharge, the lower the wear. Lab tests have concluded that when you constantly discharge from 100 to 0, it allows you betwrrn 300-500 charge cycles before it starts to break down and not hold charges. More specifically, when you reach that magic number your battery can only hold 75% of it's original charge. That's typically 1-2 years of use if you charge once a day. And heavy abusers charge more than once a day, so that decreases the time span to however many weeks it takes them to reach 500 charge cycles. Now, the increase in charge cycles is exponential, not arithmetical. So a depth of discharge to 50 before recharging will not give you 600-1000 charges. Rather it will give you 1200-1500 charge cycles. Mathematically, draining a 3600mah to zero for 300 charges gives you 1080000mah to burn through however short your battery life will be. On the other hand, using only 50% of the battery before recharging gives you 2160000mah to burn through before it expires after at least 1200 charge cycles. In other words, it stored twice more power for you to use. If you say, charge once every 24hrs, going always from 100 to 0 gives you at least 300 days. Recharging twice a day at 50% gives your battery at least 600 days of use before battery capacity deteriorates noticeably. Discharging to 75% before recharging actually gives you 2000-2500 charge cycles, making it even longer. Basically the point is, always plug the phone in when given the chance. Don't wait for 50%, or whatever. 40% is an arbitrary number actually, not sure why it's chosen. Also, this is why one of the choices to auto activate power saving in the S7 is at 50%, so that it keeps the battery up as close to 50% as possible when you get the chance to plug in.
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As for charging to 80%, this is because partial charge is better than full charge for lithium ion batteries. The ions are placed on stress to hold charges. Maximum stress is at 100% charge. And like everything else, stuff tends to break more. So not running it to 100% all the time will reduce overall stress experienced and increase the time before deterioration occurs. Personally I charge to 90%, and discharge to 40% or above. That's a 50% depth of charge, so that's good for up to 1500 charge cycles, plus whatever number of cycles the decrease in max stress gives me.
However, note that environmental temperatures also play a role in battery longevity.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge Duos via Tapatalk
No harm in leaving it plugged in all night and charging to 100%. The phone controls the battery from being overcharged, not the charger. I've switched off fast charging on mine, as that can be hard on a battery over time and I have no need for it charge any faster than overnight.
Thanks for the info. I didnt know that. And does the battery also work better, as in gives you more SOT if you charge it like you said?
Saridas said:
Thanks for the info. I didnt know that. And does the battery also work better, as in gives you more SOT if you charge it like you said?
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No it won't. It just makes the battery last longer before it needs replacement. It's not going to affect how fast you drain your battery because that's dependent on your usage.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge Duos via Tapatalk
As a first-time owner of an OP phone, I am really amazed with both battery endurance and charging speed.
However, I am a bit concerned about the battery longevity by using high V/Amps during charge, especially as the charging speed is not a top priority for me (most of the times).
As I still can't shake the habit of overnight charging, I was thinking about using an weaker / non-OP charger for overnight charging.
So, does anyone else share my concerns?
I've owned the OP 3 for two years and I've been using dash charge every night. The battery life is still good and I could get through the day. So I'm not too worried about it.
The current conversion is done by the charger and the cable, not the phone
The shorter charging time will produce less heat
=> Theoretically, it will help the battey's longevity
dbaric said:
So, does anyone else share my concerns?
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Yes. I almost always slow charge all my devices. When slow charged my devices last longer on that charge. Even at 0.5 amp it still doesn't take that long to charge my 6T.
The battery degrades due to heat since Dash takes most of the heat away from the battery and puts it in the brick we should be fine and to mention the battery management controler will only draw the power it needs and won't draw over the limit so no issues there. But coming from previous OP devices I've noticed the Battery quality isn't as good as other OEM's and definitely degrades much faster but OnePlus will replace the battery very cheap or you could do yourself if you can source an OEM part and adhesive