I've actually purchased a few of these over the years, mostly because they were very vague on this specific feature. Given many of these units are identical just rebranded copies it's hard to sort things out.
The following is based on countless hours searching the web and 4 or 5 personal purchases of these Android head units. If any of this is incorrect please tell me because I have been desperately searching for one due to BMWs incessant need to one off everything.
In my experience the bottom line is no. Android head units do not offer genuine sub support. Yes you can use the rear output and a line converter or run the signal into the high level inputs on your amp (if it has it) but there is still a very simple a basic problem. You still won't have the needed components and or firmware to properly run it. Specifically frequency control, crossover or even a 7 band eq on the unit. I only found one that offered that last and it was janky to say the least (more probably offer the eq now but still very subpar) assuming you can run v4a on the unit that may clear some up but that was written for head phones not a 4 or more speaker system.
Another point is most mainstream headunits, pioneer, Kenwood, alpine heck even boss have 4v rca preout and signal conditioners not to mention both high and low-pass crossovers.
Unfortunately to my knowledge these Chinese Android suppliers have really missed the ball. Yes they offer some cool features but car audio guy's spend many thousands of dollars on these systems and to be honest I have a avh-4500NEX in my 325xi and since it mirrors wirelessly as well as Android auto and car play wireless it provides excellent sound.
Major difference my NEX $1800.00 us brand new these Android's I've seen get spendy but mostly right around 150-400. But you get what you pay for.
The biggest bonus I found though was you can put them anywhere since they are mostly just and inch or two deep.
If I missed the mark please let me know and if you could send a link to where I can pick up a decent one. The I-Drive in my 535i is making a stereo upgrade next to impossible
this is the honest **** i been scouring for... as a AV guy everyone keeps telling me go daisaita blah blah blah but everyone here seems to not have ears or know what they are talking about when it comes to sound... my original gut was to pick up a NEX but i got side tracked with Atoto and the rest because everyone talks out their ass about how amazing they are... with no clue about their soul purpose
they do have
b1n4ry said:
this is the honest **** i been scouring for... as a AV guy everyone keeps telling me go daisaita blah blah blah but everyone here seems to not have ears or know what they are talking about when it comes to sound... my original gut was to pick up a NEX but i got side tracked with Atoto and the rest because everyone talks out their ass about how amazing they are... with no clue about their soul purpose
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They have amazing abilities for instance the iDrive in my 525i is old and outdated and these Android HU are the only option and they are fully functional and compatible which no mainstream HU can claim that I'm aware of. But I'll deal with old and crappy and tap the harness for a signal for my amp before I'll downgrade on sound quality.
You can use an Android successfully IF you install an EQ and probably noise filter but there goes the saving you would have seen.
Spdif out to dsp-amp is possible with Joying for example. SQ shouldn't be problem with it.
Kelynaw said:
If I missed the mark please let me know and if you could send a link to where I can pick up a decent one. The I-Drive in my 535i is making a stereo upgrade next to impossible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had pioneer, Kenwood, Alpine, Blaupunkt and a few others and you haven't missed the mark at all. The audio quality on these Chinese head units is just not comparable and the RCA output voltages (1.4 volts) are standards from 15 or 20 years ago. And yes... they are NOT true sub outputs.
Now having said that, it doesn't mean that you can't bring the audio quality up to par. It does however require some extra money and extra components. I don't run Dasaita's sub outputs but rather have an active electronic crossover which can generate a sub output and I run that plus the Dasaita's front/rear outputs through an AXXESS dsp sound processor before the signals go into the amps.
It's certainly a bit of extra money spent on top of it all, but IMO, worth it because these Android head units beat out the traditional Kenwood's and pioneer's in just about every other respect.
It WOULD be nice however if these Chinese manufacturers started paying a bit more attention to audio quality at the end of the day.
Bob_Sanders said:
I've had pioneer, Kenwood, Alpine, Blaupunkt and a few others and you haven't missed the mark at all. The audio quality on these Chinese head units is just not comparable and the RCA output voltages (1.4 volts) are standards from 15 or 20 years ago. And yes... they are NOT true sub outputs.
Now having said that, it doesn't mean that you can't bring the audio quality up to par. It does however require some extra money and extra components. I don't run Dasaita's sub outputs but rather have an active electronic crossover which can generate a sub output and I run that plus the Dasaita's front/rear outputs through an AXXESS dsp sound processor before the signals go into the amps.
It's certainly a bit of extra money spent on top of it all, but IMO, worth it because these Android head units beat out the traditional Kenwood's and pioneer's in just about every other respect.
It WOULD be nice however if these Chinese manufacturers started paying a bit more attention to audio quality at the end of the day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
except that axxess unit costs more than the 4/64gb headunit itself... USA MSRP: $422.00 USD
b1n4ry said:
except that axxess unit costs more than the 4/64gb headunit itself... USA MSRP: $422.00 USD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HUH??
$279 on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Axxess-AX-...241633?hash=item445ecc93e1:g:194AAOSwUKRfRo-R
My new Dasaita cost $586
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001197637149.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.554d4c4duJ2EgH
Bob_Sanders said:
HUH??
$279 on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Axxess-AX-...241633?hash=item445ecc93e1:g:194AAOSwUKRfRo-R
My new Dasaita cost $586
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001197637149.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.554d4c4duJ2EgH
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DSP
https://axxessinterfaces.com/product/AXDSP-X
unit i was looking at
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001244806859.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.2.51e67ea7IZbacK
Dash Kit
https://www.scosche.com/2003-to-2007-honda-accord-integrated-touchscreen-control-colution-dash-kit
Apparently you haven't played with any of the recent Joyings....You also obviously don't have much experience with different cell phones out there either.
Ok, fine....show me a Pioneer, Alpine, Kenwood, etc that can run Google Maps, Waze, Firefox, Gaia Navigation, Torque Pro, APRS Droid, etc natively, right on the unit....just ONE unit, from ANY of the "big name" manufacturers...they just plain don't exist. Not a single one that runs Android natively, or anything else other than their own, completely closed souce, proprietary OSes that we can't do anything with beyond what comes installed on them from the factory. Don't like their nav app, launcher, or general interface? Tough schmitt...
I've said the same thing for many years...I'd be HAPPY to drop a $1,000USD or more on a solid unit from a major manufacturer that runs Android natively. Or even a Linux based OS, that I can add additional apps to. Hell, I was dropping a thousand plus on putting a touch screen in my dash connected to a PC tower in the back YEARS before these factory double din units hit the market. Some company like Pioneer drops one of them, and I'd be one of the first in line screaming "take my money!!".
Screen mirroring isn't an option for everyone either, as screen mirroring is largely based on Miracast. Especially so for anyone with a Google phone, such as my Pixel. Google has gone out of their way to limit or even eliminate that ability to push more sales of their lousy Chromecast devices, and they have stripped Miracast support out of the core Android as of version 6 (Marshmallow). If your phone supports screen mirroring, that's because whoever made it added Miracast support back in themselves. Android Auto is also a rather lousy compromise for many of us, such as myself, that want to run alternative apps. If it wasn't coded to run within Android Auto, it generally ain't happening which is the case for the navigation app that I use for off road purposes.
I've tried several different Pioneer double din touch screens with several different Android phones. Never once was I able to get screen mirroring/mirrorlink to work correctly to truly screen mirror the phone. Only the crippled Android Auto worked...which is what ultimately pushed me into completely going with these Chinese Android head units.
That said, the Joying JY-UO135N4GS - https://www.joyingauto.com/joying-l...avigation-system-with-built-in-4g-module.html that I have in the truck right now does have a 16 band EQ built in, F&R RCAs as well as a dedicated Sub RCA output, though it's a single. I haven't put a meter on it to verify voltage, but I'm guessing it's around 2V based on gain settings on the amp compared to other head units that I've known to have 2V outputs. A LOT of "brand name" head units today still come with 2V outputs. Also has both LPF and Subsonic filters on the sub output, as well as independent HPF crossovers on F&R channels. I currently have my subs set to 30Hz-100hz, fronts set to 80Hz high pass, and rears at 135Hz high pass (yeah..blame Chevy and their piss poor design on their trucks). Subs are a pair of JBL GTO 12s fed by a Kenwood monoblock amp. Door speakers are Infinity Kappa 6.5s, rears are factory 4x10s.
Is the sound quality on par with the Pioneer head unit that it replaced? No. Can I hear the difference at 75mph over the wind and diesel engine noise? Nope. Maybe I'd hear the difference if I put one of these Joyings in my Cadillac...Do I plan to replace this Joying with a Pioneer/Alpine/Kenwood/etc? Wait for it....has not ever once crossed my mind. I also have a Joying in my Suzuki Samurai, and am shopping for another Android unit for my Suzuki Grand Vitara.
urbex said:
Apparently you haven't played with any of the recent Joyings....You also obviously don't have much experience with different cell phones out there either.
Ok, fine....show me a Pioneer, Alpine, Kenwood, etc that can run Google Maps, Waze, Firefox, Gaia Navigation, Torque Pro, APRS Droid, etc natively, right on the unit....just ONE unit, from ANY of the "big name" manufacturers...they just plain don't exist. Not a single one that runs Android natively, or anything else other than their own, completely closed souce, proprietary OSes that we can't do anything with beyond what comes installed on them from the factory. Don't like their nav app, launcher, or general interface? Tough schmitt...
I've said the same thing for many years...I'd be HAPPY to drop a $1,000USD or more on a solid unit from a major manufacturer that runs Android natively. Or even a Linux based OS, that I can add additional apps to. Hell, I was dropping a thousand plus on putting a touch screen in my dash connected to a PC tower in the back YEARS before these factory double din units hit the market. Some company like Pioneer drops one of them, and I'd be one of the first in line screaming "take my money!!".
Screen mirroring isn't an option for everyone either, as screen mirroring is largely based on Miracast. Especially so for anyone with a Google phone, such as my Pixel. Google has gone out of their way to limit or even eliminate that ability to push more sales of their lousy Chromecast devices, and they have stripped Miracast support out of the core Android as of version 6 (Marshmallow). If your phone supports screen mirroring, that's because whoever made it added Miracast support back in themselves. Android Auto is also a rather lousy compromise for many of us, such as myself, that want to run alternative apps. If it wasn't coded to run within Android Auto, it generally ain't happening which is the case for the navigation app that I use for off road purposes.
I've tried several different Pioneer double din touch screens with several different Android phones. Never once was I able to get screen mirroring/mirrorlink to work correctly to truly screen mirror the phone. Only the crippled Android Auto worked...which is what ultimately pushed me into completely going with these Chinese Android head units.
That said, the Joying JY-UO135N4GS - https://www.joyingauto.com/joying-l...avigation-system-with-built-in-4g-module.html that I have in the truck right now does have a 16 band EQ built in, F&R RCAs as well as a dedicated Sub RCA output, though it's a single. I haven't put a meter on it to verify voltage, but I'm guessing it's around 2V based on gain settings on the amp compared to other head units that I've known to have 2V outputs. A LOT of "brand name" head units today still come with 2V outputs. Also has both LPF and Subsonic filters on the sub output, as well as independent HPF crossovers on F&R channels. I currently have my subs set to 30Hz-100hz, fronts set to 80Hz high pass, and rears at 135Hz high pass (yeah..blame Chevy and their piss poor design on their trucks). Subs are a pair of JBL GTO 12s fed by a Kenwood monoblock amp. Door speakers are Infinity Kappa 6.5s, rears are factory 4x10s.
Is the sound quality on par with the Pioneer head unit that it replaced? No. Can I hear the difference at 75mph over the wind and diesel engine noise? Nope. Maybe I'd hear the difference if I put one of these Joyings in my Cadillac...Do I plan to replace this Joying with a Pioneer/Alpine/Kenwood/etc? Wait for it....has not ever once crossed my mind. I also have a Joying in my Suzuki Samurai, and am shopping for another Android unit for my Suzuki Grand Vitara.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are fine with sub par audio Then your opinion doesn't matter
The #1 purpose above all the bull**** you rambled on about is SOUND that's the purpose of an aftermarket head unit... Regardless of additional features
b1n4ry said:
If you are fine with sub par audio Then your opinion doesn't matter
The #1 purpose above all the bull**** you rambled on about is SOUND that's the purpose of an aftermarket head unit... Regardless of additional features
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's already been stated that audio quality is not the best. It's also been made clear that for some extra bucks and a few more components you CAN have your cake and eat it too. Now if you wish not to go that far then why are you here? Go to the pioneer forums.
As for the purpose of an aftermarket head unit.... yesteryear it WAS all about sound. Now it's more about central information centers. All kinds of information at your fingertips... and these Chinese units just beat the crap out of ANY of the traditional units as general information centers. Try hard as you can to make a traditional head unit do something to this level of detail and customization:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Now.. do I have to put some extra money in making the sound better? Yup, sure do, but to my eyes it's worth it.
I´m running my Joying still from speaker out to Match M5DSP. SQ is even now better than with stock HU (PSA MyWay) that I used to feed M5DSP. I don´t hear any problems and I´ve been hifi-guy nearly 30 years.
Why is it not a true subwoofer output? I have a 1500w rms amp connected to the green subwoofer output and a dayon max mx12 and its clear as day. My only problem is my hengcheng which is like a teyes c3 clone only has front rca output and I want to leave my front speakers on the tda7851 built in amplifier and connect my rear speakers to a 200w amp in the back. But if I use the front rca out I will loose fader control cuz the system will think my rears are front speakers. What about the output voltage? I don't have a line out converter and everything sounds fine.
Kelynaw said:
I've actually purchased a few of these over the years, mostly because they were very vague on this specific feature. Given many of these units are identical just rebranded copies it's hard to sort things out.
The following is based on countless hours searching the web and 4 or 5 personal purchases of these Android head units. If any of this is incorrect please tell me because I have been desperately searching for one due to BMWs incessant need to one off everything.
In my experience the bottom line is no. Android head units do not offer genuine sub support. Yes you can use the rear output and a line converter or run the signal into the high level inputs on your amp (if it has it) but there is still a very simple a basic problem. You still won't have the needed components and or firmware to properly run it. Specifically frequency control, crossover or even a 7 band eq on the unit. I only found one that offered that last and it was janky to say the least (more probably offer the eq now but still very subpar) assuming you can run v4a on the unit that may clear some up but that was written for head phones not a 4 or more speaker system.
Another point is most mainstream headunits, pioneer, Kenwood, alpine heck even boss have 4v rca preout and signal conditioners not to mention both high and low-pass crossovers.
Unfortunately to my knowledge these Chinese Android suppliers have really missed the ball. Yes they offer some cool features but car audio guy's spend many thousands of dollars on these systems and to be honest I have a avh-4500NEX in my 325xi and since it mirrors wirelessly as well as Android auto and car play wireless it provides excellent sound.
Major difference my NEX $1800.00 us brand new these Android's I've seen get spendy but mostly right around 150-400. But you get what you pay for.
The biggest bonus I found though was you can put them anywhere since they are mostly just and inch or two deep.
If I missed the mark please let me know and if you could send a link to where I can pick up a decent one. The I-Drive in my 535i is making a stereo upgrade next to impossible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are mostly the same but not all the same, I.e. MTCD with MCU mod sub out.
Yes, line level is 1.5-2v RMS not 4v as car audio mostly is.
Your post doesn't list "Android units" so cant tell what your test units were.
Why is it not a true subwoofer output? I have a 1500w rms amp connected to the green subwoofer output and a dayon max mx12 and its clear as day. My only problem is my hengcheng which is like a teyes c3 clone
marchnz said:
They are mostly the same but not all the same, I.e. MTCD with MCU mod sub out.
Yes, line level is 1.5-2v RMS not 4v as car audio mostly is.
Your post doesn't list "Android units" so cant tell what your test units were.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which one is
Excuse my ignorance, I don't do high end stereo builds for cars(home theater yes).
Just curious, if you're trying to put out that kind of wattage and care that much about crystal sound, why aren't you using spdif(optical or coax) to output digital from your stereo regardless of brand. Then your Head unit is for the features/apps and screen and your high end equip is for signal processing?
Because the optical is 5.1 so a DAC would be mono output to each speaker, and there isn't a digital rca spdif or optical that is stereo. I thought about doing that and just using y cables but not with it really the signal wouldn't be any better just less chance of interference and I have none. An amp with optical starts around 1k unless you go aliexpress or something. My amp topsolidgear 1600w 1 ohm stable as tested by wiliston audio on YouTube is $150. My Dayton MX12-22 12" subwoofer was $140. I have it running 600w @ 4 ohm and its already crazy. After I break it in I may switch to 1 ohm and get even louder. My speakers are coaxial ds18 3 way black diamonds ($39) and my rear speakers are component ds18 6.5 with 3.5" bullet tweeters with built in crossover ($70) so it's a budget system. But it sounds great. All my audio is high resolution lossless flac files and the dsp does a great job. The 32 band equalizer let's me adjust subwoofer frequency and speaker frequency so I can turn my speakers off between 30_whatever hertz and set my sub anywhere from 30_70 hz range. It also has time delay and surround function and turns my amp on and off with a trigger wire amongst some other settings I haven't figured out yet.
Can't figure out what bass enhancement does. Bass filter is to filter bass from speakers and surround is to adjust timing.
Here is a pic.
CaliBurr said:
Because the optical is 5.1 so a DAC would be mono output to each speaker, and there isn't a digital rca spdif or optical that is stereo. I thought about doing that and just using y cables but not with it really the signal wouldn't be any better just less chance of interference and I have none. An amp with optical starts around 1k unless you go aliexpress or something. My amp topsolidgear 1600w 1 ohm stable as tested by wiliston audio on YouTube is $150. My Dayton MX12-22 12" subwoofer was $140. I have it running 600w @ 4 ohm and its already crazy. After I break it in I may switch to 1 ohm and get even louder. My speakers are coaxial ds18 3 way black diamonds ($39) and my rear speakers are component ds18 6.5 with 3.5" bullet tweeters with built in crossover ($70) so it's a budget system. But it sounds great. All my audio is high resolution lossless flac files and the dsp does a great job. The 32 band equalizer let's me adjust subwoofer frequency and speaker frequency so I can turn my speakers off between 30_whatever hertz and set my sub anywhere from 30_70 hz range. It also has time delay and surround function and turns my amp on and off with a trigger wire amongst some other settings I haven't figured out yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"there isn't a digital rca spdif or optical that is stereo"
not sure I understand this statement? Digital is stream is whatever is on it the stream. I send stereo over optical all the time in home theater(well I used too, it's OLD now ;-) Yes technically each speaker would be mono(it's channel) maybe I'm missing something.
I understand your point on cost, but if you already have the amp you want with solid RCA then just use a 50 dollar 4.1 or 5.1 DAC to RCA
It will skip the "crappy" DAC in the the HU and avoid interference(sorry but from what I read they ALL have it). I know both mine do.
The only reason I can think it will still be bad is if they are still doing DAC then reversing it for the optical. Again I have not tested the optical on the one I have with it as my stock system doesn't do spdif or even RCA.
Related
I'm ignorant when it comes to head units, so please ELI5.
1. Over on /r/CarAV these Chinese Android head units have a pretty bad reputation. The mantra over there seems to be you get what you pay for compared to the more expensive brand name head units, especially in terms of sound quality. Is this true? In what ways are these units inferior? How/why is the sound inferior?
I've heard reports of bad QC (poor soldering), low quality hardware, buggy software, but not sure if it's true or not.
I'm asking here because over on /r/CarAV i'm not sure if they're just HU snobs and dismissive of anything not brand name.
2. Why aren't there any North American/European made Android head units? Why are they all Chinese? At first I thought the Android HU market was analogous to the Android step top box market, but even in that market there are North American/European brands (eg. Amazon Fire TV, WeTek, etc) that offer products at pretty competitive prices.
Well, I'm not an audiophile. The sound that comes out of mine is decent. I have stock speakers, though. The last time I researched the more expensive units, their CPUs really sucked and they weren't very cusomizable. It's 2 different ways of thinking. I can play FLACs, the sound is clear enough for me, but that's not the criteria I use to decide what stereo I want to put in my car. To me the other head units are over priced garbage.
To put it more clearly, I want a car computer that can also play music. I don't want a radio that's sort of trying to be a car computer, kind of. Maybe. The lower price also means I can upgrade easier to keep up with newer processor speeds.
Compared to the stock OEM head unit I had, it's at least as good, if not better. It's not high powered, so it could benefit from an external amp if you want more than what the OEM factory stock head unit offered. QC on the units seems to be good enough, but of course there will be a bad lemon from time to time. I don't think the major name brands offer too much over these chinese head units in functionality, but they will have better high level preamp outputs and built in crossovers and such which the chinese head units doesn't offer. If these are big issues or non-issues depends on what you are going to use it for and what you expect from it. You'll never win a sound competition with a chinese head unit, but it will perform more than good enough for everyday use while you're driving around.
Reddit is known to hate things...
I have tried to tell them my Joying is great, but normally people who have that negative opinion do not want to listen to anything positive about these head units
The Chinese units rely on the complete chipset by AllWinner or Rockchip. Those have a decent DSP as part of the overall chipset and since this is already reference designed by the chipset vendor there is no need for additional investments into porting over the audio signal to a separate DSP - which we are talking 1 year of development.
For a traditional Japanese vendor they have years of development invested in higher quality DSPs and some (like Sony I believe) even have their own.
Then there are more minute-yet-still-critical reasons. For one, the head unit needs a clean, well shielded hand-off to an external amp. And it needs to be high powered (at least 4V like the higher-end Japanese brands rather than the 2V max of the Chinese brands) in order to send a clear signal into an external amp. For two, if the DSP is poor, it at least needs to be able to take a digital file and hand it off digitally via SPDIF, HDMI, or other optical-type output. This way there is no digital-to-analog and then back to digital double conversion. No Chinese vendor does this yet.
If you wanted to be a USA-based vendor and work with QCOM (AptX, etc.) that's a $10M investment with about a 2-year development cycle. You would own the market and find your way into all sorts of additional OEM projects beyond simply audio and video so it can be done...but getting someone excited to drop that kind of money into a market perceived to be going further towards purely an OEM play is hard to find.
There are other issues with the Chinese units. The apps, software, etc. evolves so damn fast they have a tough time keeping up. Being in China it is difficult to get accurate canbus modules with appropriate wiring schematics - so those custom faceplate units don't work as seamless as they could.
Until then you have to decide...do you want the phenomenal Android capabilities and openness of Chinese units with poor audio, or the limited features of Android Auto/CarPlay through boring and un-modifiable traditional vendors but have outstanding audio quality?
It's total BS that you need 4V in order to get a clear signal to an external amp. It's perfectly possible to get a clear signal even with 2V, but it puts higher demands on shielding of the signal wire. Chinese head units doesn't have poor audio quality, they are simply not what you would call high end or state-of-the-art. For a normal person listening to music while driving, the audio quality is more than good enough. Heck, you can even install good amps and good speakers and get great sound out of these, people are doing it all the time. You'll never get what you'd call outstanding audio quality in a car no matter what brand of head unit you have. The internal space in a car simply doesn't lend itself for good acoustics compared to a proper listening room at home. I'm pretty sure that for the needs of 90% of people, these units are more than good enough.
Why are most universal Chinese android radio head units having poor wifi/ Bluetooth. Hopefully there a Wi-Fi/Bluetooth usb dongle out there. Hey if anyone know what model or were I can get one please share some links
HI
All of the bad sound quality issues I've read about in regards to various Chinese Android head units seem to be related to the internal amplifier/chip from what I can gather.
If you use the pre-outs and run a good quality external amplifier, is the pre-out signal clean enough to sound good, or does it still sound bad, just with more power behind it?
Thanks!
--ElmoTheDestroyer
Joying has these new units with some sort of enhanced amplifier and EQ that at least on paper look way better what other Chinese units offer... in fact no other Chinese manufacturer made the effort to offer something better... all go the same route... basic and cheap so kudos for Joying that they are trying something different.
Now we need confirmation from buyers that the new amplif is indeed better....
edit said:
Joying has these new units with some sort of enhanced amplifier and EQ that at least on paper look way better what other Chinese units offer... in fact no other Chinese manufacturer made the effort to offer something better... all go the same route... basic and cheap so kudos for Joying that they are trying something different.
Now we need confirmation from buyers that the new amplif is indeed better....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I was looking at picking one of those up, I'm just curious, if I'm not happy with how that sounds, if using a good external amp will actually provide "really good" sound quality vs. the internal amp. I know that using a crappy preamp source can give pretty bad results even on a good amp, but at the same time, the preamp section of these units might be clean enough to provide a good usable signal to an external amp.
Though it would be cool if the new internal amp Joying is using is actually good! Be nice to not have to spend money on an external amp if I can avoid it...
ElmoTheDestroyer said:
Yeah, I was looking at picking one of those up, I'm just curious, if I'm not happy with how that sounds, if using a good external amp will actually provide "really good" sound quality vs. the internal amp. I know that using a crappy preamp source can give pretty bad results even on a good amp, but at the same time, the preamp section of these units might be clean enough to provide a good usable signal to an external amp.
Though it would be cool if the new internal amp Joying is using is actually good! Be nice to not have to spend money on an external amp if I can avoid it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't set your set your hopes way too high, after all we are talking about 300-400$ units here. If the sound quality is the top priority these are not the ones to look at, with or without an external amplif. Very good sound quality is expensive. Most (like me) pick these up for the convenience of having an navigation, backup camera, access to various streaming apps and so on... the list is long. My original Ford headunit is head and shoulders above these Chinese units when it comes to sound quality, FM Radio reception/ sound quality.... but it also lacks so many features that you find in a modern headunit that I find them useful enough to give up on the original headunit high sound quality.
edit said:
Don't set your set your hopes way too high, after all we are talking about 300-400$ units here. If the sound quality is the top priority these are not the ones to look at, with or without an external amplif. Very good sound quality is expensive. Most (like me) pick these up for the convenience of having an navigation, backup camera, access to various streaming apps and so on... the list is long. My original Ford headunit is head and shoulders above these Chinese units when it comes to sound quality, FM Radio reception/ sound quality.... but it also lacks so many features that you find in a modern headunit that I find them useful enough to give up on the original headunit high sound quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, yeah, I'm not expecting super high quality sound... I have an older android unit in my truck now, so I know how it feels to have crappy sound.. Just debating if it's worth spending the money on an external amp to help things out... Not sure if it'd be worth the expense/trouble to install, or if it would just make crappy muddy sound louder.
Love the convenience of these units though, especially compared to my 20 year old stock CD player, talk about a huge technology update!
Suppose I'll just get one of these new Joying units with the new digital amp and hope for the best...
Thanks again for the info!
I have one and should have it running in the next week. It's my understanding that if you enable an external amp with the new units the surround sound is disabled and the old app is enabled. In other words you lose all the fancy adjustments if you use an external amp. I have a few cars and one of them will use an external amp and I'm only just hoping for less heat from the new design. On another car I'm hoping to bypass the original amp with the new unit and drive it right from the joying unit.
Of course sound is pretty subjective so I'm doubtful even if I say its better that that is meaningful to anyone else in their car etc. A the end of the day I like decent sound, but the android functionality is my primary need. One of my cars is a Honda Element. This thing has so much road noise a person might be throwing their money away if they went with premium quality.
400 bucks can either be a lot for someone or less significant for others.
well now the Sony Android Auto unit is down to $400. I was actually never unhappy with the sound of my Joying, but holy **** the sound is dramatically improved with the Sony:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/an...-xav-ax100-t3647891/post73238321#post73238321
However, I do miss the full functionality of Android, so I'll be going back to either Joying or Seicane. But after having that Sony, i may look into adding an amp or a DSP or something to try to get that sound
i got the new Joying with the Amp and DSP, and I think it sounds pretty great.
CadillacMike said:
i got the new Joying with the Amp and DSP, and I think it sounds pretty great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Separate amp or the new class D amp internal?
pounce said:
Separate amp or the new class D amp internal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has the internal amp, one with the gold plate on the back
CadillacMike said:
i got the new Joying with the Amp and DSP, and I think it sounds pretty great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you please tell us more? Maybe compared to the Sony?
The old Joying is ok as long as you install Viper.
Do not compare onder units with Joying Intel based units...
I have all amplified on my car, with Joying 2Gb Intel unit (not the new ones with digital amplifier), but applyied some on stock audio cars and sound is not worst than pioneer, kenwood, sony 100-200€ units.
But to made the sound better, disable LOUD and on Car Settings app, on the code protected menu, on balance sound option, put the sound bars on 0 (zero). Now you can volume up without distortion and the sound will be more clear.
ElmoTheDestroyer said:
lol, yeah, I'm not expecting super high quality sound... I have an older android unit in my truck now, so I know how it feels to have crappy sound.. Just debating if it's worth spending the money on an external amp to help things out... Not sure if it'd be worth the expense/trouble to install, or if it would just make crappy muddy sound louder.
Love the convenience of these units though, especially compared to my 20 year old stock CD player, talk about a huge technology update!
Suppose I'll just get one of these new Joying units with the new digital amp and hope for the best...
Thanks again for the info!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
edit said:
Can you please tell us more? Maybe compared to the Sony?
The old Joying is ok as long as you install Viper.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got the install done very late last night.
So I only got to listen on the way in to work, and I don't have everything set up yet. But I think it sounds about as good as the Sony.
Beast Mode activated
Here are some pics
Can you please share .APK for this amplifier app ?
ElmoTheDestroyer said:
HI
All of the bad sound quality issues I've read about in regards to various Chinese Android head units seem to be related to the internal amplifier/chip from what I can gather.
If you use the pre-outs and run a good quality external amplifier, is the pre-out signal clean enough to sound good, or does it still sound bad, just with more power behind it?
Thanks!
--ElmoTheDestroyer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the problem isn't with the amplifiers. The amplifiers they install may be somewhat small, but they're not bad units. The problem is in what they send TO the amplifiers, which will be exactly the same if you use an external amplifier.
All that an amplifier actually does, is makes the sound LOUDER. If the sound that you are amplifying is full of noise, artifacts, and clipping, then those *painful* bits of sound will also be amplified.
I know this thread is a blast from the past, but in searching xda i am having a hard time finding if any of these android headunit make clean sound out the RCA.
I have a Sofia unit from about 2 years ago, and have never been able to get rid of whine of the engine across rpm range (especially if engine is running with headlights on) i have a good grounding kit under the hood, quality 4 gauge power and ground to amp, tested PAC SNI-1 Noise Isolators on both front and rear RCA, have even tried a Axxess AX-ANR1000 Power Noise Filter. All to no avail.
Is there any units that are better for clean output?
merdok said:
I know this thread is a blast from the past, but in searching xda i am having a hard time finding if any of these android headunit make clean sound out the RCA.
I have a Sofia unit from about 2 years ago, and have never been able to get rid of whine of the engine across rpm range (especially if engine is running with headlights on) i have a good grounding kit under the hood, quality 4 gauge power and ground to amp, tested PAC SNI-1 Noise Isolators on both front and rear RCA, have even tried a Axxess AX-ANR1000 Power Noise Filter. All to no avail.
Is there any units that are better for clean output?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Filtering noise out of a system like that can be a bit of a daunting challenge.
There are a ton of different places where the noise can be brought into your radio from your car;
1) ANY electrical connection between your car and your radio. This includes power+, power-, and even all the different *signal* wires, like ACC, headlights, reverse, etc.
2) RF. This is a really challenging one to deal with, because if your alternator is blasting out a whole bunch of RF noise at a frequency in the range of 20-40,000 Hz, and if that RF gets picked up by an audio wire pre-amplifier, then the amplifier will take that noise, amplify it, and play it on your speakers.
You've tried a power noise filter.
Have you tried connecting the ACC line to the filtered side of that filter instead of the ignition? Have you tried disconnecting ALL of the other signal lines coming into the radio?
Now about the RF part.
Here is the thing. If you're using the pre-amp audio outputs, then that means that you are bringing the pre-amp audio signal OUTSIDE of the protection of the metal box (faraday cage).
The SNI-1 ground loop isolator that you've tried isn't going to do a damned thing if your problem is RF noise. In fact, it is an idiotic part altogether since all it actually does is it converts a signal from one ground reference to a possibly different ground reference. Instead of that, what you should be doing is making sure that there is no potential difference in the ground reference level of the two parts being connected -- specifically, the radio, and the amplifier.
Two things you can do to help with this;
1) Add a big cable from the amplifier chassis to the radio's metal box.
2) Use the highest quality and SHORTEST audio cables possible.
Also... have you confirmed that the amplifier you are using isn't actually the source of the noise?
96carboard said:
Filtering noise out of a system like that can be a bit of a daunting challenge.
There are a ton of different places where the noise can be brought into your radio from your car;
1) ANY electrical connection between your car and your radio. This includes power+, power-, and even all the different *signal* wires, like ACC, headlights, reverse, etc.
2) RF. This is a really challenging one to deal with, because if your alternator is blasting out a whole bunch of RF noise at a frequency in the range of 20-40,000 Hz, and if that RF gets picked up by an audio wire pre-amplifier, then the amplifier will take that noise, amplify it, and play it on your speakers.
You've tried a power noise filter.
Have you tried connecting the ACC line to the filtered side of that filter instead of the ignition? Have you tried disconnecting ALL of the other signal lines coming into the radio?
Now about the RF part.
Here is the thing. If you're using the pre-amp audio outputs, then that means that you are bringing the pre-amp audio signal OUTSIDE of the protection of the metal box (faraday cage).
The SNI-1 ground loop isolator that you've tried isn't going to do a damned thing if your problem is RF noise. In fact, it is an idiotic part altogether since all it actually does is it converts a signal from one ground reference to a possibly different ground reference. Instead of that, what you should be doing is making sure that there is no potential difference in the ground reference level of the two parts being connected -- specifically, the radio, and the amplifier.
Two things you can do to help with this;
1) Add a big cable from the amplifier chassis to the radio's metal box.
2) Use the highest quality and SHORTEST audio cables possible.
Also... have you confirmed that the amplifier you are using isn't actually the source of the noise?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank!
I can confirm it's not the amp itself by a headphone to rca cable from my phone into amp w/o noise.
1.) I need to try running a wire from amp ground to cage of hu. Think better to attach to ground of the case or attach to powerline filter? Going to test with bridge both wires of premium speaker wire. That should be plenty right?
2.) only wires that are a bit longer than needed are the rca. Might be 2ft slack because amp is under passenger seat.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 PM ----------
Wow I think the wire from amp to hu case is going to be the fix! I never thought of that or needed in my years.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
merdok said:
Thank!
I can confirm it's not the amp itself by a headphone to rca cable from my phone into amp w/o noise.
1.) I need to try running a wire from amp ground to cage of hu. Think better to attach to ground of the case or attach to powerline filter? Going to test with bridge both wires of premium speaker wire. That should be plenty right?
2.) only wires that are a bit longer than needed are the rca. Might be 2ft slack because amp is under passenger seat.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 PM ----------
Wow I think the wire from amp to hu case is going to be the fix! I never thought of that or needed in my years.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello,
I have the same problem "permanent noise in my Android unit". If I understand well, you have solve the problem with a wire from amp to HU. Could you explain more about this fix or a diagram?
Thks a lot
So i was browsing through joyings new intel head units on their site with DSP. I found that all intel based joying headunits with their DSP now have a SPDIF coaxial output. This is a huge step for them since many of us been trying to use a USB DAC for toslink or SPDIF output.
A regular name brand HIGh res deck with SPDIF output runs over 1200$ . And their not even touch screen.
Joying finally woke up and did it, now us guys with fancy name brand DSP’s can finally send true digital coax output to them. I will be ordering one of theses units and not utilizing the dsp that is built in. Simply because i find that they are not there yet with their built in dsp’s for individual speaker functions. I have a nice audio control dsp that has a coax input.
Enjoy!
if u order it pls make some pics of android board and som
Subscribed... I'm thinking buying one. I found two version. 2/16 and 4/32 GB. What do you suggest? Enough the 2/16, or better the 4/32 version?
Depending on what your looking at doing with the unit. Im going all out with the 4gb of ram. I caught myself multitasking on the 2gb ram units (not joying) and the audio would studder sometimes.
Theses new joyings will change the revolution of car audio with this coaxial output!
Ill be able to listen to “tidal” app do get high lossless sound tracks right to my Audiocontrol 608 DSP via coaxial.
The only other way to do digital sound is an ipad or the highly priced sony unit at 1500$ for a single dine with no display?.
mahtew said:
if u order it pls make some pics of android board and som
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will try and do so
Just ordered mine, but with 2.5inch curved IPS display. I will try to make a frame to fit my car.
I won't be using the digital out for now, I will try the RCA out first and see. I like the build in eq.
My last joying unit had hissing noise when not playing music, hope this one will be quieter.
Yeah. For the average user, their dsp seems to have eq front and rear independently. Which is nice.
You can also order a longer ribbon for their screens to locate the unit in a different area from their screens. This would probably help with the mold you want to make for your display.
If you have a high fidelity sound stage like me. : tweeter on an amp, mid ranges on a separate amp, woofers on another amp . Then rear stage on another amp, then all amps hooked up to a 10 ch output dsp to control each speaker independently.
The built in dsp is no good for me. But the digital output will be king to supply my external dsp with digital audio??
guimond47 said:
Yeah. For the average user, their dsp seems to have eq front and rear independently. Which is nice.
You can also order a longer ribbon for their screens to locate the unit in a different area from their screens. This would probably help with the mold you want to make for your display.
If you have a high fidelity sound stage like me. : tweeter on an amp, mid ranges on a separate amp, woofers on another amp . Then rear stage on another amp, then all amps hooked up to a 10 ch output dsp to control each speaker independently.
The built in dsp is no good for me. But the digital output will be king to supply my external dsp with digital audio??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did research some DSP (Thanks for the tip on youtube). I came up with the Rockford Fosgate DSR1 for $283, which was the cheapest of them all. I will wait and try out the build in DSP first before jumping onto this one.
I currently have an 5 channel infinity amp coupled with a pioneer monoamp for the sub.
I am also using component in front and coaxial in rear. I am using the crossover that came with infinity speakers for the front.
Not sure if I should connect the sub directly to the unit or leave it connected to the infinity amp. I will have to play around and see which gives better sound.
The rockford is a nice unit, i tried it out myself. I am not sure if it has a coaxial digital input. I forget.
Another thing i did not like was it does not have presets and their app is not too android friendly...(to be run on a head unit apk)
And i also forget if it has volume control knob...
This is why i went with audio control.
My head unit should be arriving by next weekend i hope . Then ill be gearing up to make a huge review video , based on audio quality and features and obviously the new spdif digital output!
Can you test the rcas as well and not just spdif? I'm planning on getting one myself but I will only go digital if the normal rca output is bad. Also can you test spdif to see if you can control the volume through headunit or steering wheel controls instead of using dsp volume knob? I guess if you could be as thorough with some of thr main feature(wifi, Bluetooth, 4g, sound quality from both outputs, camera input etc) that would be very helpful. I've never pulled the trigger on an android headunit because the lack of some features and poor sound quality but I'm almost ready to get this one. Which size did you buy?
I will for sure be doing exactly as you mentionnned above. I will also be using my oscilloscope to measure distortion in the rca’s. I had a eonon headunit and there was terrible noise in the rca’s and even more noise when a Hard drive was plugged into the usb ports. And more noise with my 360view camera hooked up.
I will be doing bench testing first then i will be moving to vehicle testing.
I bought the double din 10.1” headunit intel with 4gb ram and 32gb ssd.
Its going in my 1997 chev c/k1500 pick up. I have hifi audio in there . Ill be doing more upgrades down the road as well.
Sweet. I'm excited to see the results. I just hope it isn't a let down. I really want to go ahead and order one but if you're doing a review I'd rather wait. I've wanted an android head unit since they came out. I've even looked at building a raspberry pi or like rock pi and adding a screen but I just don't think I'd be happy with the results. These Android head units really have a lot of features but the sound quality has been the deal breaker for me. I asked JOYING what their rca voltage is and they always tell me they don't have voltage... Not sure what they mean but whatever. For all of our sakes I hope this one gets the job done.
Mine will be delivered tomorrow, but I wont be to test it out until next weekend since i will be out of town.
For sound, i will be using the rca going to my amp, not planning g on using a DAC right now.
Just make sure you tell us about it as soon as possible lol.
Just got mine yesterday, but what a disappointment, no digital audio out. Although I did order the one with the digital audio out.
I emailed them back, but they told me they are on vacation and will not return until Feb14 or something, but the lady said she will replaced it for me.
I just powered it on on my bench, so I have not been able to play with the audio in the car or the equalizer, will do so this weekend.
The 10.1 2.5D curved screen is nice though
checksum123 said:
Just got mine yesterday, but what a disappointment, no digital audio out. Although I did order the one with the digital audio out.
I emailed them back, but they told me they are on vacation and will not return until Feb14 or something, but the lady said she will replaced it for me.
I just powered it on on my bench, so I have not been able to play with the audio in the car or the equalizer, will do so this weekend.
The 10.1 2.5D curved screen is nice though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dang that sucks. It looks like it has the 4g dongle built in. Are you able to test that out?
Usually its under the yellow cap... instead of the yellow video 2 out, it will be a green rca. Take off your yellow caps.
My video should be on YouTube by tomorrow.
Everything you can ever possibly want in an android headunit is finally here. Crisp sound through the digital source and no noise or hiss on the rca’s .
Be patient i will post a youtube link shortly. Better grab popcorn, my vid is 1.5 hour long lol
guimond47 said:
Usually its under the yellow cap... instead of the yellow video 2 out, it will be a green rca. Take off your yellow caps.
My video should be on YouTube by tomorrow.
Everything you can ever possibly want in an android headunit is finally here. Crisp sound through the digital source and no noise or hiss on the rca’s .
Be patient i will post a youtube link shortly. Better grab popcorn, my vid is 1.5 hour long lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's great news. Can't wait to see the review. Did you order model(JY-UO134N4G)? I want to make sure I get the right one when I go to order.
Hey guys,
I just finally installed Avin Avant4 unit in my E39 M5 and I am SO disappointed with the sound quality.
I got the dsp chip with it. (Yes, I've adjusted it, but its the unit components/build quality itself)
I previously had an old Pioneer Avic Z130BT - and have MB Quart components up front powered by JL 300/4 for cabin and a sub with JL 500/1. It sounded great.
I have a feeling the unit may be defective, but not sure if all of them are like this. In which case it is extremely disappointing.
I hear interference at random times, like when using the touchscreen. The carplay adapter sounds a TAD better, but not by much. The highs are just terrible and sound as if it is a poor connection (it is not).
Has anyone compared the PX6 with DSP chip to a Pioneer/Alpine/etc.
I love having the ibus functionality and carplay in one, but the audio quality is just terrible.
Perhaps there are some options? Otherwise I may have to resort to going back to regular double din, and I really don't want to because this one looks 100%.
bea5t said:
Has anyone compared the PX6 with DSP chip to a Pioneer/Alpine/etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not the px6 yet. I have it but haven't installed yet. My px5 is still in there though.
I had a pioneer NEX4200 in my jeep which got replaced with a Kenwood 9903s, which got replaced by my present px5.
If you're strictly concerned with audio quality (out of the box) then you should go to kenwood or pioneer (I don't like Alpine... you pay too much for the name) because the audio quality is most definitely better. Now I say "out of the box" because you CAN make the sound better in these Chinese machines with external amps and sound processors (which I have done).
But I choose to spend additional money making the sound better on my Dasaita px5 because these machines offer FAR more flexibility than my pioneer or kenwood ever could be.
Hopefully I will have my px6 installed next week for further comparison but I can already pretty much tell you that my pioneer nex4200 or Kenwood will sound better. It's tough to beat the sound quality of today's traditional hardware based head units with a Chinese android unit.
I have JL 300/4 going to MB Quart (old school made in germany) components. The minute I plugged in the android and turned on some audio, even before touching ANY settings, I was already disappointed.
The "alive" sound is just gone. You can tweak the highs and EQ and loudness all you want, but its still polishing a turd.
Wondering if anyone has connected a proper DAC to these (but how would it work with front/rear/sub outputs?)
bea5t said:
I have JL 300/4 going to MB Quart (old school made in germany) components. The minute I plugged in the android and turned on some audio, even before touching ANY settings, I was already disappointed.
The "alive" sound is just gone. You can tweak the highs and EQ and loudness all you want, but its still polishing a turd.
Wondering if anyone has connected a proper DAC to these (but how would it work with front/rear/sub outputs?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah.... I was pretty disappointed in the beginning too. The sound was nowhere near as good as my kenwood, but I was determined to make it fly because of everything else these things can do.
I don't use the onboard amp. I use the front and rear rca outputs to a crossover which CREATES a new subwoofer channel which all (front, rear and new sub) is then fed to a signal processor (Axxess AX-DSP-X Digital Signal Processor) and then on to front, rear, and subwoofer amps.
I still get the odd screen noise to the speakers every so often but it's livable. The sound however is back up to par with my Kenwood.
I think that the big difference between the cheap chinese units and the more expensive ones is not so much the sound output. It's pretty much the same shallow audio across all these units. The difference is in how much processor and screen noise gets passed on to the audio. Some of these machines are just shielded better, with better pc board layouts so that noisy chips aren't near the audio preamps.
I would just absolutely love it if pioneer or kenwood built one of these android machines. It would be a killer machine. Pioneer/Kenwood audio quality mixed with the power of what is essentially an android tablet.
I pulled it out and put a new pioneer instead. The android is just not reliable and has its own quirks. No matter what the audio quality was just not there. Pioneer is levels beyond.
I put a android media player and running ibusapp off that with hdmi into the pioneer - anyone know how I can power the android media player using 12V constant, + ACC? - having the accessory wire send a signal to turn on/off so the android doesnt lose time settings?
Hello, I wanted to ask which ic amplifier would be the best for me for the car in terms of sound music,I have some doubts between the Tda 7851 or Tda 7838 or Toshiba Tcb001, by the way I have an external amplifier of kicker 250.1. Thanks!
adir 25 said:
Hello, I wanted to ask which ic amplifier would be the best for me for the car in terms of sound music,I have some doubts between the Tda 7851 or Tda 7838 or Toshiba Tcb001, by the way I have an external amplifier of kicker 250.1. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This depends on what you have right now. The most common hardware mod is TDA7850 with a 10,000 mf capacitor. Personally, I disconnect it from internal power altogether and drive it with a 17v-18v 10A power supply. Bear in mind that TDA7850 requires proper cooling so be ready to add additional heatsinks and a temperature-controlled fan (you don't want the fan to be on all the time, only when cooling is required). Example in the pics.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
...
If you have an external amplifier and it's good (at least 300 real Watts), then I would remove the internal amplifier chip altogether and instead optimize the hardware for using an external amp.
More info on the mod itself can be found here and here.
iceblue1980 said:
This depends on what you have right now. The most common hardware mod is TDA7850 with a 10,000 mf capacitor. Personally, I disconnect it from internal power altogether and drive it with a 17v-18v 10A power supply. Bear in mind that TDA7850 requires proper cooling so be ready to add additional heatsinks and a temperature-controlled fan (you don't want the fan to be on all the time, only when cooling is required). Example in the pics.
View attachment 5391107...View attachment 5391105
If you have an external amplifier and it's good (at least 300 real Watts), then I would remove the internal amplifier chip altogether and instead optimize the hardware for using an external amp.
More info on the mod itself can be found here and here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I understand, in the case that I have an external amplifier how do I optimize the hardware for using an external amp?
adir 25 said:
Ok, I understand, in the case that I have an external amplifier how do I optimize the hardware for using an external amp?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Guides can be found here and here.
This will require the removal of the internal amp and soldering other components onto the motherboard
iceblue1980 said:
Guides can be found here and here.
This will require the removal of the internal amp and soldering other components onto the motherboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Removal of the TDA power amplifier is not necessary, you could consider grounding pin 4 to place TDA7388 into standby and decouple signal inputs via 1k resistor to RCA leads for connection to external amp.
Another option could be to cut or lift TDA power supply leads. However, leaving the TDA in place will not affect audio.
Despite what the Russian mods suggest, soldering 1k resistors, carefully and supporting with a small amount of suitable glue is OK.
adir 25 said:
Hello, I wanted to ask which ic amplifier would be the best for me for the car in terms of sound music,I have some doubts between the Tda 7851 or Tda 7838 or Toshiba Tcb001, by the way I have an external amplifier of kicker 250.1. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is so little difference (other than being mostly counterfeit or knockoffs) between these Power Amplifier ICs there is no "best".
If you want a real and measurable difference, install an external power Amp.
marchnz said:
There is so little difference (other than being mostly counterfeit or knockoffs) between these Power Amplifier ICs there is no "best".
If you want a real and measurable difference, install an external power Amp.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Real TDA7850 (properly cooled) powered by 17-18v supply with 10,000 mf cap, with proper power and grounding cabling with correctly configured Viper4Android will perform on a level where no external amp will be able to complete when it comes to price vs sound quality.
If you choose external amp then you'll need to throw in a DSP unit as well. All that will cost more than some are willing to spend.
YD7388 and TDA7388 are complete crap however.
iceblue1980 said:
Real TDA7850 (properly cooled) powered by 17-18v supply with 10,000 mf cap, with proper power and grounding cabling with correctly configured Viper4Android will perform on a level where no external amp will be able to complete when it comes to price vs sound quality.
If you choose external amp then you'll need to throw in a DSP unit as well. All that will cost more than some are willing to spend.
YD7388 and TDA7388 are complete crap however.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I got it, I have a dilemma between these two -
adir 25 said:
Ok, I got it, I have a dilemma between these two -View attachment 5392433
Click to expand...
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None of these are YT921xxx or Rockchip based type, so personally I wouldn't know how to do any modifications on any of them
iceblue1980 said:
Real TDA7850 (properly cooled) powered by 17-18v supply with 10,000 mf cap, with proper power and grounding cabling with correctly configured Viper4Android will perform on a level where no external amp will be able to complete when it comes to price vs sound quality.
If you choose external amp then you'll need to throw in a DSP unit as well. All that will cost more than some are willing to spend.
YD7388 and TDA7388 are complete crap however.
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Unfortunately, the datasheet shows a different perspective, however goldern ears may vary. If you like it, that's great.
adir 25 said:
Ok, I got it, I have a dilemma between these two -View attachment 5392433
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As I said earlier, there's little to NO difference between the power amps they use, except that they're mostly counterfeit devices, so it's *luck of the draw* what you end up with.
If your concers are audio quality, these Chinese knockoffs are not for you. Also, doing misinformed things like running the power amp at manufacturer rated maximum supply and fitting a giant heatsink to in in hope of it lasting longer than a short period of time - won't help either. I had originally typed 'dumb', but realized that it's not polite.
Just to be super clear on this question: Which amplifier is better?
The answer is none.
The power amps used in these devices are all so close in terms of output power, the difference is insignificant.
Wanting quality Audio? The cheapest units are not for you, with the more expensive units not necessarily offering any better "quality".
Wanting power to drive your speakers/annoy - purchase external power amplifier(s).
marchnz said:
As I said earlier, there's little to NO difference between the power amps they use, except that they're mostly counterfeit devices, so it's *luck of the draw* what you end up with.
If your concers are audio quality, these Chinese knockoffs are not for you. Also, doing misinformed things like running the power amp at manufacturer rated maximum supply and fitting a giant heatsink to in in hope of it lasting longer than a short period of time - won't help either. I had originally typed 'dumb', but realized that it's not polite.
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Clearly you have not had any experience testing TDA7388 or YD7388 with true TDA7850-system described above side by side.
Only relying on datasheets is like trying to understand what sound will be like by reading datasheets of speakers...
Please refrain from confusing people who are most probably on budget, trying to get the best out of their Android Head Units.
Max conditions for any electronic device can be successfully applied with proper modding to support the output. They will not break.
Many times the shortfall is the cooling, not the power output capacity. And it's not "just heatsinks", it's an end-to-end temperature-controlled cooling system.
I will agree on that if you can afford a proper external amp and DSP, that that is a better choice. And many of these units can be optimized to deliver a respectable performance with external gear.
iceblue1980 said:
Clearly you have not had any experience testing TDA7388 or YD7388 with true TDA7850-system described above side by side.
Only relying on datasheets is like trying to understand what sound will be like by reading datasheets of speakers...
Please refrain from confusing people who are most probably on budget, trying to get the best out of their Android Head Units.
Max conditions for any electronic device can be successfully applied with proper modding to support the output. They will not break.
Many times the shortfall is the cooling, not the power output capacity. And it's not "just heatsinks", it's an end-to-end temperature-controlled cooling system.
I will agree on that if you can afford a proper external amp and DSP, that that is a better choice. And many of these units can be optimized to deliver a respectable performance with external gear.
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Testing, interesting.
How were the before and after tested and against which ICs.
No, reading IC datasheets is not "like trying to understand what sound will be like by reading datasheets of speakers".
One could however make cabinet and crossover decisions based on speaker datasheets, that is possible.
If at the end of the design, your speakers added some sort of magical sound to the reproduction, the calculations are in error and the design is a failure.
This discussion is however like comparing two cheap rubber bands and arguing one is better because you can stretch it further.
Since you mentioned speakers, running a speaker beyond xmax is analogous to operating the amp IC at its Vmax - impending failure.
marchnz said:
Testing, interesting.
How were the before and after tested and against which ICs.
No, reading IC datasheets is not "like trying to understand what sound will be like by reading datasheets of speakers".
One could however make cabinet and crossover decisions based on speaker datasheets, that is possible.
If at the end of the design, your speakers added some sort of magical sound to the reproduction, the calculations are in error and the design is a failure.
This discussion is however like comparing two cheap rubber bands and arguing one is better because you can stretch it further.
Since you mentioned speakers, running a speaker beyond xmax is analogous to operating the amp IC at its Vmax - impending failure.
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When data sheets clearly shows THD >10% and skyrocketing above 100W output. You don't need any test to know that it will not sound very nice powering 4-8 speakers and a subwoofer!
But it might sound ok with efficient stock speakers.
For undistorted power you need an external amp. But these units are rather noisy and garbage in equals garbage out...
Allan_Hun said:
When data sheets clearly shows THD >10% and skyrocketing above 100W output. You don't need any test to know that it will not sound very nice powering 4-8 speakers and a subwoofer!
But it might sound ok with efficient stock speakers.
For undistorted power you need an external amp. But these units are rather noisy and garbage in equals garbage out...
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Subwoofer will pull the most amps which is why it's highly recommended to have an active sub, which let's face it - most car audio lovers will already have. Even a compact underseat subwoofer like Kenwood KSC-SW11 150W will make quite a difference even in an SUV sized vehicle.
A trimmed TDA7850 setup in a up to 8x (4+Ohm) stock speakers + active sub, will deliver some respectable results in combination with a properly configured Viper4Android.
With passive sub, I probably wouldn't bother as it would choke TDA7850 even with the suggested mod. Simple physics.
I tested a 4 × 4Ohm speaker setup with a midsize passive sub and it wasn't awesome. Was okay but barely.
iceblue1980 said:
Subwoofer will pull the most amps which is why it's highly recommended to have an active sub, which let's face it - most car audio lovers will already have. Even a compact underseat subwoofer like Kenwood KSC-SW11 150W will make quite a difference even in an SUV sized vehicle.
A trimmed TDA7850 setup in a up to 8x (4+Ohm) stock speakers + active sub, will deliver some respectable results in combination with a properly configured Viper4Android.
With passive sub, I probably wouldn't bother as it would choke TDA7850 even with the suggested mod. Simple physics.
I tested a 4 × 4Ohm speaker setup with a midsize passive sub and it wasn't awesome. Was okay but barely.
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Stock speakers have tiny motors designed for 15 RMS watts.
But if you want something better you need power. 50W is better and 100W is even better. But if you care about sound guality you definitely don't want 20% of the output to be distortion. So a tiny single ic amp is not up for the task.
So if you want cheap sound quality purchase a power amp. Lot's of nice used amps available for 100$. So that is the route I would recommend instead of trying to mod the internal amp.
But if anyone really want to spend their time modding I'm not stopping anyone...
Allan_Hun said:
Stock speakers have tiny motors designed for 15 RMS watts.
But if you want something better you need power. 50W is better and 100W is even better. But if you care about sound guality you definitely don't want 20% of the output to be distortion. So a tiny single ic amp is not up for the task.
So if you want cheap sound quality purchase a power amp. Lot's of nice used amps available for 100$. So that is the route I would recommend instead of trying to mod the internal amp.
But if anyone really want to spend their time modding I'm not stopping anyone...
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Well, getting an external amp will still require hardware modding of the cheaper Android Heads Unit for optimal output and you'll need to throw in a DSP unit to at least partially offset not having Viper4Android.
I think if you put it all together it'll make more sense than comparing watts and units/components one by one.
The sad part of it all is that no Android Head Unit, not even the most expensive ones can deliver any meaningful audio experience. I compared the sound quality of a $800 Android Head Unit and a $100 one and it was barely noticeable.
The newer Qualcomm Android Head Units come without internal amp but require almost no modding to deliver good output. Granted, these new units utilise the fibre connection so not really a fair comparison.
I'm actually using one myself with an external Harman Kardon setup - and it's almost good enough but I'm really missing Viper Still looking for a hardware alternative but it would require quite a stack of hardware... DSP, EQ, Dynamics FX unit etc etc..
iceblue1980 said:
Well, getting an external amp will still require hardware modding of the cheaper Android Heads Unit for optimal output and you'll need to throw in a DSP unit to at least partially offset not having Viper4Android.
I think if you put it all together it'll make more sense than comparing watts and units/components one by one.
The sad part of it all is that no Android Head Unit, not even the most expensive ones can deliver any meaningful audio experience. I compared the sound quality of a $800 Android Head Unit and a $100 one and it was barely noticeable.
The newer Qualcomm Android Head Units come without internal amp but require almost no modding to deliver good output. Granted, these new units utilise the fibre connection so not really a fair comparison.
I'm actually using one myself with an external Harman Kardon setup - and it's almost good enough but I'm really missing Viper Still looking for a hardware alternative but it would require quite a stack of hardware... DSP, EQ, Dynamics FX unit etc etc..
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I used to have a 100$ android HU feeding 3 amps through a Dayton DSP.
At low volume the s/n ratio was quite bad, but at normal listening volume it wasn't bad and I could not hear it with the engine running.
So I would like to know what you think needs to be improved about the preouts and how?
What is dynamics FX and what do you miss from viper?
Allan_Hun said:
I used to have a 100$ android HU feeding 3 amps through a Dayton DSP.
At low volume the s/n ratio was quite bad, but at normal listening volume it wasn't bad and I could not hear it with the engine running.
So I would like to know what you think needs to be improved about the preouts and how?
What is dynamics FX and what do you miss from viper?
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I normally test the sound in my workshop as I have different car speakers and home speakers setup so I will hear literally everything... Car engine noise is therefore not present.
The radio sound is not great but can be improved by removing a few internal bypass capacitors and changing some others to much more powerful ones. The radio sound is better on units with NXP radio chip that supports RDS but frankly I'd rather listen to DAB or Internet Radio as that sounds goes through the "normal audio channels".
There are ways of "cleaning up" the output from RCA's by modding internal components. I'm yet to test it but can tell you for sure that the RCA outputs are "noisy". I compared the audio quality of Kenwood and Sony pre-outs side by side with one of the $100 Chinese Androids, and at least in lab environment, the difference was noticeable.
Viper4Android is a as powerful audio processing tool as any piece of software can deliver on an Android. Coming from a studio recording background (used to be an audio recording engineer and composer), I see this as a complete tool to perfect the car audio by softening the bad and boosting the good.
Dynamics FX for example allows you to utilise compression of certain frequencies at certain volume levels so that no matter of how quiet or loud the overall volume is, you sound stage will be perfectly balanced. It's a bit like fluent EQ.
And there are a number of other modules that will allow things like adaptive stereo imaging, frequency boost, distortion prevention (I have pushed TDA7850 to it's limits with no audible distortion), noise cancelling, delays, reverbs - pretty much any studio effect you can think of.
It is a complex tool but once done right, it's really impressive.
To give you an example, it took me 8 hours to properly calibrate the sound in our previous car that had one if these Mediatek Android Head units (modded to the teeth of course). Using stock BOSE speakers and 1 underseat sub in a fairly large SUV, it was uncomparable with the stock amp setup. Yes I spent a month modding the unit itself but for $200 I paid for the head unit and any spare parts for modding, it sounded like a 20-30 times more expensive audio setup and the best part was that it was a powerful Android as far as head units go.