Database Users

Camera applications A vs. B: compared

The other day I wrote an article about camera applications, questioning if one is really better than another (full article here). Since my blog doesn't get many viewers I figured it might be helpful to post my results here as well for more coverage. I try to prove that various camera apps aren't necessarily better than others. I did one test using six different camera apps or settings, shooting from exactly the same spot pointing at my Arduino. I'm not yet telling you which photo belongs to which camera app as I want to find out from you if there is any noticeable difference between the following, in no particular order:
Superior Auto mode from Sony devices @ 8MP
Manual mode from Sony devices @ 20MP, ISO-50
Google Camera @ 20 MP
Camera FV-5 @ 20MP
Camera FV-5 @ 20MP, Night mode (exposure "long")
Open Camera @ 20MP
<.PNG COMPARISON>
Please do NOT vote on the poll if there is no one photo that looks significantly better
Let me know what you think!

@Hermantje
Did you try Vignette ?
It's one of my favorite camera app :3
For me,
1. Camera FV-5> very good at long exposure + tripod, because Sony stock camera can't do this. . .
Exposure Bracket very useful too, and Sony can't do this too. . .
2. Google camera> only for photosphere, because we can't modify ISO value and EV.
I wish Sony stock camera have this feature xD
3. Vignette> actually it's like Creative Effect but with more useful focus, effect, filter etc.
Please correct me if I'm wrong :3

Yenkazu said:
@Hermantje
Did you try Vignette ?
It's one of my favorite camera app :3
For me,
1. Camera FV-5> very good at long exposure + tripod, because Sony stock camera can't do this. . .
Exposure Bracket very useful too, and Sony can't do this too. . .
2. Google camera> only for photosphere, because we can't modify ISO value and EV.
I wish Sony stock camera have this feature xD
3. Vignette> actually it's like Creative Effect but with more useful focus, effect, filter etc.
Please correct me if I'm wrong :3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more on points 1 and 2
I haven't tried Vignette yet. But that's because I want my photos to look natural, and if I want effects then I always add them after the fact with Snapseed or Photoshop on PC.

Hermantje said:
I couldn't agree more on points 1 and 2
I haven't tried Vignette yet. But that's because I want my photos to look natural, and if I want effects then I always add them after the fact with Snapseed or Photoshop on PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please try it xD
I'm using Vignette not because filter or any effect it's offer, but because focus, detail and colours.
And I dont like edit/filter photos, I like natural photo, just like you xD
Sometimes, Vignette give more details and accurate colours vs Sony Stock Camera.
Noise still there, but still acceptable.
Btw, I'm used Superfine Quality + 8 MP on Vignette so the photo size 10++ MB xD
Still jpeg, cannot beat png offered by FV-5 :3
I didn't think 20 MP it's "usable" xD
What your opinion about 20 MP ?

Yenkazu said:
Please try it xD
I'm using Vignette not because filter or any effect it's offer, but because focus, detail and colours.
And I dont like edit/filter photos, I like natural photo, just like you xD
Sometimes, Vignette give more details and accurate colours vs Sony Stock Camera.
Noise still there, but still acceptable.
Btw, I'm used Superfine Quality + 8 MP on Vignette so the photo size 10++ MB xD
Still jpeg, cannot beat png offered by FV-5 :3
I didn't think 20 MP it's "usable" xD
What your opinion about 20 MP ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm always using 20MP just because of the idea of otherwise throwing away data and... just because I can. But I don't always find it useful. I only really find it useful when using Camera FV-5's night mode or when shooting at ISO-50 in daylight in the stock app. For quick snaps I do use Superior Auto just because of its simplicity, and then of course it's at 8MP. I should give Vignette a try, then :good:

Hermantje said:
I'm always using 20MP just because of the idea of otherwise throwing away data and... just because I can. But I don't always find it useful. I only really find it useful when using Camera FV-5's night mode or when shooting at ISO-50 in daylight in the stock app. For quick snaps I do use Superior Auto just because of its simplicity, and then of course it's at 8MP. I should give Vignette a try, then :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wew. . .
I'm prefered 8 MP because the details :3
20MP "awesome", but the ISO limit only 800 (if I remember correctly), of course it's useful for daylight then xD
But sometimes, using 20 MP make me think, the details it's enough or not. . .
So I decided used 8 MP, 20 MP for "rare" situation then :3
Thanks for your feedback
Btw, what your current OS right now ?
I'm on L .270, the HDR on the stock camera awful vs in KK
Yesterday, I'm trying used HDR and the photo look very bad, I dunno why xD
Maybe I'm wrong, but if you on L .270, you should try the HDR
And did you know, only Sony Stock Camera can control the ISO ?
I'm trying set the ISO on Camera FV-5 but it's still automatic. . .
-______-

Yenkazu said:
Wew. . .
I'm prefered 8 MP because the details :3
20MP "awesome", but the ISO limit only 800 (if I remember correctly), of course it's useful for daylight then xD
But sometimes, using 20 MP make me think, the details it's enough or not. . .
So I decided used 8 MP, 20 MP for "rare" situation then :3
Thanks for your feedback
Btw, what your current OS right now ?
I'm on L .270, the HDR on the stock camera awful vs in KK
Yesterday, I'm trying used HDR and the photo look very bad, I dunno why xD
Maybe I'm wrong, but if you on L .270, you should try the HDR
And did you know, only Sony Stock Camera can control the ISO ?
I'm trying set the ISO on Camera FV-5 but it's still automatic. . .
-______-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm currently on .242, rooted. I never use HDR though, generally not a fan of the effect it creates. I would recommend most people to just shoot at 8MP. You save a lot of memory that way

Hermantje said:
I'm currently on .242, rooted. I never use HDR though, generally not a fan of the effect it creates. I would recommend most people to just shoot at 8MP. You save a lot of memory that way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not updated to .270 ?
HDR on Kitkat works very well :3
Maybe something wrong with my settings :/
I agree, save a lot of memory + fast rendering photo :3

Yenkazu said:
Why not updated to .270 ?
HDR on Kitkat works very well :3
Maybe something wrong with my settings :/
I agree, save a lot of memory + fast rendering photo :3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because I'm waiting for a 5.1 update. If I update, I'm losing root (well I don't know if there's a way to install the update while keeping root) so I'll have to root again, reinstall every app... it's just too much work for me with a minor update :silly:

Hermantje said:
Because I'm waiting for a 5.1 update. If I update, I'm losing root (well I don't know if there's a way to install the update while keeping root) so I'll have to root again, reinstall every app... it's just too much work for me with a minor update :silly:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, you can used pre-rooted zip :3
But you need recovery for flash that zip.
Back to topic, it's seem HDR on L kinda weird, the ISO is the culprit. . .
If I set the ISO 50, the effect good, but not really good compared in KK, so I will left HDR in L. . .
In KK, if I set ISO auto, the effect really nice, but not in L.
And many photo editor app can do that (HDR), I guess it's not really matter then xD

Just a reminder: the poll closes within a week. I will have interpreted the results by then, but in the meantime: the more votes the better! :laugh:

Mi 5S Camera Thread

Let's get a camera thread going here so we can showcase the Mi 5S capabilities.

Prone to lensflares, but very very nice! Low light performance could be better though.

Rotpeter said:
Prone to lensflares, but very very nice! Low light performance could be better though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice samples, when I get the phone I will try to mod it for better low-light performance.
You guys can also see some samples from Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/mi5s/

shaneel1491 said:
You guys can also see some samples from Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/mi5s/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice...even my samples are on instagram under #mi5s

Few photo samples from me. Great camera indeed!
megafileupload.com/82yz/Mi5s_samples.rar

porto12 said:
Few photo samples from me. Great camera indeed!
megafileupload.com/82yz/Mi5s_samples.rar
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As much as I'm interested in the great sample photos you probably took, I'm not gonna download some random .RAR from a one click hoster. Would you care to attach the pics in a post or up them to IMGUR?
Thanks in advance, I hope it's not too much of a hassle.

in daylight.mi5s's camera is great. amazing
but you need to use 3rd party camera like open camera to get nice picture. stock camera app is not good at low light

Rotpeter said:
Prone to lensflares, but very very nice! Low light performance could be better though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice! What ROM are you using? Are you using the default camera app or third party?

For perfect lowlight photos, must use manual mode.

tord00 said:
Nice! What ROM are you using? Are you using the default camera app or third party?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm on the Xiaomi.eu ROM and was just using full auto mode with HDR enabled. Due to me being on a trip with some friends I wasn't able to fiddle around with manual mode until I got the perfect shot -- but that's certainly planned for another time.

What settings do you suggest for low light shoots?

Attached from left are image no HDR, HDR, Light room android RAW edit super low light and light room android RAW edit morning sky. All taken using stock camera app.
The camera is quite miss or hit. Sometime the photo came out pretty mediocre but sometime its on par with s7.

aghiopro36 said:
Attached from left are image no HDR, HDR, Light room android RAW edit super low light and light room android RAW edit morning sky. All taken using stock camera app.
The camera is quite miss or hit. Sometime the photo came out pretty mediocre but sometime its on par with s7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you able to take RAW images without using the build.prop tweak?

shaneel1491 said:
Are you able to take RAW images without using the build.prop tweak?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course. Update to the latest official miui 8.0.18 from miui itself. It still china rom thou

Also found another site where there's lots of Mi 5s images posted
http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kw=%E5%B0%8F%E7%B1%B35s&tab=album&subTab=album_thread

christ-al said:
What settings do you suggest for low light shoots?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Play with manual mode, ISO 800-1600 and exposure time (1/15 - 1/18sec). have you a tripod, you can use iso 200-400 and exposure time 4sec or higher.
a lower ISO has better image quality!
Edit: add low light sample photo with manual mode

Pictures taken at a concert in different situations with really low light
Standard camera app (latest stable xiaomi.eu ROM), Auto mode, HDR and flash off

I've got some more to show you, too!

Some pictures with different light situations.

I'll try and do a comparison between miui camera and snap camera on cm13

Bracketing

What is the best way to make bracketing. With Huawei camera there is no function for bracketing. With camera fv-5 app it's not working probably and it is even not possible to set the shutter speed. Any suggestions?

Not sure why you need bracketing if u can see the image before shooting.
Or you can shoot in raw and edit the pictures later.

gm007 said:
Not sure why you need bracketing if u can see the image before shooting.
Or you can shoot in raw and edit the pictures later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HDR

scook94 said:
HDR
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The camera has hdr option,and with raw you can manipulate the image as you want.
Use the shadows and highlight in Photoshop.

I know, but it's no where near as good as taking, say, 7 images at -3eV through +3eV and combining them in an HDR program or app.

scook94 said:
I know, but it's no where near as good as taking, say, 7 images at -3eV through +3eV and combining them in an HDR program or app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True,so he need to take them manually one by one

gm007 said:
True,so he need to take them manually one by one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup. He'll need a tripod though...

Thanks for answering
I need it for photos spheres in HDR as I wrote in an other thread.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/p10-plus/how-to/photo-sphere-focus-t3611563
I use tripod and nodal adapter and shoot single images and stitch it in ptgui.
I would love to do it all on Huawei p10 plus but somehow the results are blurry when I use streetview app camera.
https://goo.gl/photos/Xmdi4FpsTwi22wbt7

So bracketing is not possible on Huawei p10 plus. So I tried to stitch fotos in raw but they don't have exif data. Ptgui needs this information. Huawei makes it not easy to make photo-spheres.

[PSA] RAW quality vs JPEG Tests

After google announced that they have no plans to bring RAW support to the device I was curious to see what sort of quality the DNGs would be. Unfortunately I've found that the RAW files from different apps provide different results.
Apps used
Stock Camera App JPEG
Camera NX
Camera FV-5
Test 1: Straight out of camera RAW quality
All camera applications were left on full auto with touch focus on the far buildings.
Stock
https://imgur.com/a/ae575
Camera NX
https://imgur.com/a/UlR4s
Camera FV-5
https://imgur.com/a/ANvw5
As can be seen the RAW from Camera NX though very noisy is pretty standard looking. On the other hand Camera FV-5 is just awful with a stupid amount of noise.
This is interesting as inspecting the photos shows that the ISO for FV-5 was the lowest at 400 whilst NX and Stock used ISO 875.
Test 2: JPEG vs RAW quality
For this test I tried to use Camera FV-5 but it refused to take any pictures in the low light. Based on the previous test it's pretty obvious it would have fared worst anyways.
In this test I have tried to show the dynamic range of the files. Both were brought into Adobe Camera RAW, sliders for shadows and blacks cranked to max with the brightness and whites to lowest. I have also applied some sharpening and noise reduction to both.
The edits to both are identical
Stock Edit
https://imgur.com/a/9WPSy
NX Edit
https://imgur.com/a/UDEs9
The resulting images show that the RAW file is brighter and retains more detail. This can clearly be seen in the roof where JPEG artifacts are visible and the brickwork where detail is lost.
This can more clearly be seen when I brighten the JPEG so that it matches the brightness of the RAW
Stock Edit Brighter
https://imgur.com/a/N7YFz
Conclusions
I'd grown used to shooting RAW on my S7 Edge, luckily the new Pixels fully support Camera API 2. However it is interesting to see that the RAW readout is different per app. In regards to quality I will definitely be shooting the Camera NX in the future when I want a RAW file; however the JPEG quality is very impressive and lives up to it's hype.
Edit: 26/11/17 (From reddit post https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/7fb9vu/technical_camera_test_raw_vs_jpeg/)
Test 3: LR vs Camera NX
Tried out LR in both 'Professional' and 'HDR' RAW modes. All photos have the same sharpening, noise reduction, white point applied. Blacks and shadows are maxed out with whites and highlights at minimum. LR HDR has exposure boosted to +2.65EV to match brightness.
NX Edit https://imgur.com/a/oUBhd
LR Professional Edit https://imgur.com/a/CsBa3
LR HDR Edit https://imgur.com/a/nuSNa
I was expecting LR RAWs to be significantly better. Unexpectedly the 'Professional' LR RAW looks similar to the FV-5 RAW, very blue with a whole bunch of noise.
The 'HDR' LR RAW looks much closer to the NX RAW, however there are some strange hot(white) pixels spread throughout.
Conclusions 2
I'll still be sticking with the NX RAWs for now, 'HDR' LR files are close but detail isn't any better and those white pixels are pretty noticeable.
Test 1 and 2 Full resolution and dng files: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e2_sD7D1IiOg9Ety_8IsHAfhcKAVf9Eq/view?usp=sharing
Test 3 Full resolution and dng files: https://drive.google.com/open?id=17EIhsPAX5efHXPiz_cfkov3AKaDkREvg
Anyone got suggestions for more apps for me to try?
For my aesthetically pleasing photographs please visit my Instagram

Interesting post, thanks for sharing. Have you considered doing stock v nx v LR v manual cam & compare in lightroom side by side? I know with my 5X the hdr auto was visibly worse wrt detail than hdr on, and dng was another step up to that, basically incredibly detailed.
Does nx raw use hdr with the new 8.1 update enabling the visual core? Or will say manual camera use hdr+enhanced in it's raw outputs?

randomhkkid said:
Anyone got suggestions for more apps for me to try?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting read thanks. Did you try open camera? I experimented a bit and found the dng offered more flexibility in fixing exposure and white balance but needed a lot of noise processing to be as good as the jpg. But have been shooting both just in case I wanted to post process anything. So far haven't.
It never occurred to me that raw differed by app. That seems just wrong.

Linwood.Ferguson said:
It never occurred to me that raw differed by app. That seems just wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does seem wrong. RAW data should be just that, all the data from the camera before anything like an app tweaks it out. So yeah, it makes zero sense.

Hi, good thread!
I have somehow given up on RAW on Android because the implementations are so clumsy and the results are pitiful.
Indeed, to me too, the idea of having different quality raw from different cameras is plain stupid! Though I might admit it could be true given how lame the 3rd party Android cameras are. Such a shame a huge ecosystem such as Android cannot produce a fully featured and functional camera.
Btw you could also try one of the modified GCam versions with RAW enabled. Here is a nice page where you could fetch one such. Go for the stable ones, in red.
https://www.celsoazevedo.com/files/android/google-camera/
Looking forward for your results!

You clearly don't understand what RAW is, or how ****ty phone cams are under the hood
The fact that you think that FV5 is the one giving bad results just shows that you don't understand what RAW files are supposed to be.
Phones, even our allegedly amazing DSLR killing wonders of today have ridiculously tiny sensors and take garbage photos. NO qualifications here, they take garbage photos.
Through magic, detail smearing software processing, we get some usable results.
Camera FV5 is outputting a real RAW file, complete with the stupid amount of noise captures by the tiny, crappy sensor in your phone.
Camera NX is evidently doing almost as much processing as the default engine and not outputting a real RAW file at all.
If you're wondering why Google downplays RAW support, it's because they know that for most people it will just reveal how crappy the camera really is and how much software trickery is going on.

Bingley said:
Interesting post, thanks for sharing. Have you considered doing stock v nx v LR v manual cam & compare in lightroom side by side? I know with my 5X the hdr auto was visibly worse wrt detail than hdr on, and dng was another step up to that, basically incredibly detailed.
Does nx raw use hdr with the new 8.1 update enabling the visual core? Or will say manual camera use hdr+enhanced in it's raw outputs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't tried since the 8.1 update. A little busy at the moment with my Master's unfortunately. I will try to do more comparisons in a few weeks after finals. For now I've updated the OP with some results from Lightroom's camera.
Linwood.Ferguson said:
Interesting read thanks. Did you try open camera? I experimented a bit and found the dng offered more flexibility in fixing exposure and white balance but needed a lot of noise processing to be as good as the jpg. But have been shooting both just in case I wanted to post process anything. So far haven't.
It never occurred to me that raw differed by app. That seems just wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
pixelsquish said:
It does seem wrong. RAW data should be just that, all the data from the camera before anything like an app tweaks it out. So yeah, it makes zero sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't shoot the messenger! The RAW files are definitely different, unsure why, likely due to API differences and when the RAW files is read in the image pipeline.
dehnhaide said:
Hi, good thread!
I have somehow given up on RAW on Android because the implementations are so clumsy and the results are pitiful.
Indeed, to me too, the idea of having different quality raw from different cameras is plain stupid! Though I might admit it could be true given how lame the 3rd party Android cameras are. Such a shame a huge ecosystem such as Android cannot produce a fully featured and functional camera.
Btw you could also try one of the modified GCam versions with RAW enabled. Here is a nice page where you could fetch one such. Go for the stable ones, in red.
https://www.celsoazevedo.com/files/android/google-camera/
Looking forward for your results!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CameraNX is the same as the modded Google camera with RAW support.
lordfarqaud said:
The fact that you think that FV5 is the one giving bad results just shows that you don't understand what RAW files are supposed to be.
Phones, even our allegedly amazing DSLR killing wonders of today have ridiculously tiny sensors and take garbage photos. NO qualifications here, they take garbage photos.
Through magic, detail smearing software processing, we get some usable results.
Camera FV5 is outputting a real RAW file, complete with the stupid amount of noise captures by the tiny, crappy sensor in your phone.
Camera NX is evidently doing almost as much processing as the default engine and not outputting a real RAW file at all.
If you're wondering why Google downplays RAW support, it's because they know that for most people it will just reveal how crappy the camera really is and how much software trickery is going on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah this is where you're wrong. The actual RAW files you seem to be talking about are not debayered or processed in any way, the RAW files we traditionally talk about (DNG, NEF, CR2) are all already processed by the app or camera logic in some way to be as flat and neutral as possible whilst containing more info in shadows, highlights etc.
That's why we see difference in the output, the apps are processing the RAW output differently. The camera in the Pixel is still a good sensor, just that the software magic makes it the best in the industry. There is still merit to shooting in RAW compared to the jpeg output.

I am surprised that you guys don't know the difference.
Google's HDR+ captures multiple images (allegedly up to 8 or 10) in order to improve the image quality(noise, colors, dynamic range). But when you take a raw photo with a 3rd party app, you get worse image quality because usually the raw file relies on a single image.
Adobe's HDR raw automatically combines raw files (probably two or three) for a better dynamic range.
The NX app is a modified Google camera app. Therefore the app contains Google's HDR+ algorithm. Apparently Google's camera app has the option to use HDR+ for the raw files (so multiple raw files are combined for a much better image quality), but Google hasn't activated the feature yet. But apparently the developer of the NX app found a way to activate it.
I hope that Google activates this feature soon, so then we don't need a 3rd party apk anymore.

Ah this is where you're wrong. The actual RAW files you seem to be talking about are not debayered or processed in any way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A raw file contains, or should contain raw, "undebayered" sensor data. The processing software (lightroom, camera raw, etc, does the demosaicing.
the RAW files we traditionally talk about (DNG, NEF, CR2) are all already processed by the app or camera logic in some way to be as flat and neutral as possible whilst containing more info in shadows, highlights etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's true that most camera makers probably mess with their raw data prior to some degree prior to saving the data, but it's not correct to say that the files are already processed by the app. Most apps will apply a default profile when you open the file, but nothing is processed until you, er, process it.
That's why we see difference in the output, the apps are processing the RAW output differently.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They certainly are, in that Camera NX is processing it to such a degree that it's can hardly be claimed to be a RAW file anymore, and FV5 is giving something that appears to have been barely touched, as it should.
The camera in the Pixel is still a good sensor, just that the software magic makes it the best in the industry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a good sensor compared to other smartphone sensors, but it's still a piece of garbage in absolute terms, which is why it only looks good with that software "magic".
There is still merit to shooting in RAW compared to the jpeg output.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, nothing to do with the point I was making, which is that Camera NX is not giving better RAW output, it's not giving RAW output at all. And if you truly do want to see what the sensor is actually capturing, and work with that, only Camera FV5 in this comparison appears to be giving you that.

Should anyone be following this thread the new Pixel 3 camera apk is available and works on the Pixel 2 - it now has native raw support, and frankly it's great - jpegs still look ****e up close, whereas raw/dng files it produces are so clear it's amazing how Google manages to mangle the jpegs in cam!

Pixel Binning

What is the use of Pixel Binning feature if camera app is not even using secondary 20mp sensor in any mode. Even in manual model it is taking 20mp size pictures instead of using pixel binning. Can someone guide me if am missing anything or MI is just doing false advertising??

ms.25491 said:
What is the use of Pixel Binning feature if camera app is not even using secondary 20mp sensor in any mode. Even in manual model it is taking 20mp size pictures instead of using pixel binning. Can someone guide me if am missing anything or MI is just doing false advertising??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The way the pixel binning works is that it upscales the photo afterwards back up to 20MP, I wish there was a way to turn that on and off however.

Nope586 said:
The way the pixel binning works is that it upscales the photo afterwards back up to 20MP, I wish there was a way to turn that on and off however.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think it works like that. Check attached image for reference. So there is no chance of up scaling after binning.

I found that the 20mp lens does take some great pics but you not only have to select that lens manually, the settings had to be set manually also. It seems the camera lens is fine, it's the camera app that does a poor job.

ms.25491 said:
I dont think it works like that. Check attached image for reference. So there is no chance of up scaling after binning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you should read about how upscaling works. Of course you will not gain any resolution but the final image will be 20MP again. Or any mp value depending on the scale factor

It works in my case it turns 20 mp to 16 mp, but gcam is better than mi cam without using pixel binning