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Hi guys,
Is it somehow possible to install an app that is exclusively available for 1GB devices on a Low-End Windows Phone with 512MB?
I really want to know why many apps are not available for Low-End devices and fear that this is just a strategy of Microsoft for selling more High-End Windows Phones. So I thought about buying a Huawei Ascend W1 to test this, but I'm not sure how and if it is possible.
First there is the easiest possibility with downloading the XAP from the store and installing it manually from the SD card. Does this work? This would be way to easy so I think it doesn't.
Lately I heard something about "cracking" Windows Phone 8 apps? Is this possible and does someone know how? There are many sites providing these XAPs on the internet. Would it work then? Is there any certificate that Microsoft provides with every downloaded app?
Second possibility would be using the Developer Tools from the SDK. This is the way how I used to install Skype on the Lumia 610. (and it worked perfectly!)
Is this still possible with a normale or "cracked" XAP-file?
Third idea: a Chinese hacker called reker recently accomplished to jailbreak a Huawei Ascend W1. Do you know if this allows us to install 1GB apps on it?
This is really not for piracy and I will/have bought/buy every app that I am going to test. According to the law in the country I live in, I am allowed to use applications on any other device as long as I legally bought any kind of license for it.
So basically I would be allowed play Halo Spartan Assault on the Xbox if I found a possibility to run it.
I just don't trust Microsoft anymore after I have seen that only apps by famous developer-studios publish apps exclusively for 1GB devices.
Thank's in advance.
papalakaka said:
Hi guys,
Is it somehow possible to install an app that is exclusively available for 1GB devices on a Low-End Windows Phone with 512MB?
I really want to know why many apps are not available for Low-End devices and fear that this is just a strategy of Microsoft for selling more High-End Windows Phones. So I thought about buying a Huawei Ascend W1 to test this, but I'm not sure how and if it is possible.
First there is the easiest possibility with downloading the XAP from the store and installing it manually from the SD card. Does this work? This would be way to easy so I think it doesn't.
Lately I heard something about "cracking" Windows Phone 8 apps? Is this possible and does someone know how? There are many sites providing these XAPs on the internet. Would it work then? Is there any certificate that Microsoft provides with every downloaded app?
Second possibility would be using the Developer Tools from the SDK. This is the way how I used to install Skype on the Lumia 610. (and it worked perfectly!)
Is this still possible with a normale or "cracked" XAP-file?
Third idea: a Chinese hacker called reker recently accomplished to jailbreak a Huawei Ascend W1. Do you know if this allows us to install 1GB apps on it?
This is really not for piracy and I will/have bought/buy every app that I am going to test. According to the law in the country I live in, I am allowed to use applications on any other device as long as I legally bought any kind of license for it.
So basically I would be allowed play Halo Spartan Assault on the Xbox if I found a possibility to run it.
I just don't trust Microsoft anymore after I have seen that only apps by famous developer-studios publish apps exclusively for 1GB devices.
Thank's in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These apps that come for 1 GB memory devices only are typically apps that are ported from other platforms and are improperly optimized for the current system.
Most apps, if coded correctly, shouldn't use more than 180 MB, which is what 512 MB devices allow for app consumption.
Theoretically, the limitation is put in place by some property in the WMAappManifest file for the application. If removed, the app should work properly on 512 MB devices, but you risk getting memory related crashes.
Most of the time, apps come in 1GB-only version and then are "ported" to support 512 MB as well, since the large majority of WP8 are 512 MB.
Then there's also the problem of screen resolution: high res devices will use more RAM to render stuff, which is why they all have 1 GB, or in the case of lumia 1020, 2GB.
thank's for your reply.
I have already talked to a developer who told me nearly the exact thing. He explained that these developers who are working for studios are under pressure, because these apps have to be published at time. also they want to keep the code as near to the source as possible. Therefore they don't optimize the apps properly. Still these apps should be able to run, because the RAM is mostly used for the cache of levels before starting. This means when less objects are cached, the processor has to work more, which leads to a higher power combustion.
Do you know if this WMAppManifest is saved in the XAP-file? Can I manipulate it somehow?
I have read something about it on MSDN, but I don't know where it is saved.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windowsphone/develop/jj681682(v=vs.105).aspx
I plan to buy a Low-End device and if it is bricked or somehow destroyed by overheating while trying this, I know, that Microsoft said the truth. The W1 isn't expensive and this is really worth testing.
papalakaka said:
thank's for your reply.
I have already talked to a developer who told me nearly the exact thing. He explained that these developers who are working for studios are under pressure, because these apps have to be published at time. also they want to keep the code as near to the source as possible. Therefore they don't optimize the apps properly. Still these apps should be able to run, because the RAM is mostly used for the cache of levels before starting. This means when less objects are cached, the processor has to work more, which leads to a higher power combustion.
Do you know if this WMAppManifest is saved in the XAP-file? Can I manipulate it somehow?
I have read something about it on MSDN, but I don't know where it is saved.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windowsphone/develop/jj681682(v=vs.105).aspx
I plan to buy a Low-End device and if it is bricked or somehow destroyed by overheating while trying this, I know, that Microsoft said the truth. The W1 isn't expensive and this is really worth testing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the WMAappManifest is indeed located in the XAP, but you can not edit the XAP because they are encrypted by the marketplace.
If you wanna be safe and still get a high-endish phone, I suggest the lumia 820: has 1 GB of RAM and priced quite well.
The problem i see with 512 MB devices is that at some point microsoft will be forced to abandon them. I wouldn't be surprised if Windows Phone 9 will be unavailable for WP8 512 MB devices.
actually I have the Lumia 920 and I just want to test this if it works. I think it is worth trying, but I need to know how it is possible.
Maybe by jailbreaking the Huawei? There was a thread here on XDA.
So this means, manipulating isn't the way to do it. Any other ideas? What happens if I try to install it via SD card?
Is it somehow possible to "crack" the app without affecting this encryption?
papalakaka said:
actually I have the Lumia 920 and I just want to test this if it works. I think it is worth trying, but I need to know how it is possible.
Maybe by jailbreaking the Huawei? There was a thread here on XDA.
So this means, manipulating isn't the way to do it. Any other ideas? What happens if I try to install it via SD card?
Is it somehow possible to "crack" the app without affecting this encryption?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as we know, the XAP is uncrackable at the moment, because it is compiled to native binaries. You will need decompile the thing back to MSIL, which isn't trivial. In the case of directx games (which represent the majority of 1GB-only apps) this gets even harder, even if you try installing via SD. But we have very skilled hackers working on it.
For a long time we thought WP8 was uncrackable, until the W1 jailbreak. The jailbreak will happen, sooner or latter, remember, WP8 doesn't even have one year in the wild.
I am not 100% sure how that guy who jailbroke the W1 manage to fool the XAP and marketplace checking.
You can try this: http://www.windowsmania.pl/poradnik...1gb-na-telefonach-z-512mb-nowy-poradnik-4504/
This is Polish site, but you can use google translator
mcosmin222 said:
As far as we know, the XAP is uncrackable at the moment, because it is compiled to native binaries. You will need decompile the thing back to MSIL, which isn't trivial. In the case of directx games (which represent the majority of 1GB-only apps) this gets even harder, even if you try installing via SD. But we have very skilled hackers working on it.
For a long time we thought WP8 was uncrackable, until the W1 jailbreak. The jailbreak will happen, sooner or latter, remember, WP8 doesn't even have one year in the wild.
I am not 100% sure how that guy who jailbroke the W1 manage to fool the XAP and marketplace checking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your explanation.
That is why I consider buying the W1, but I haven't understood yet how the jailbreak works at all. But I must say that I haven't had much time to read the thread completely.
I will try what I can and I really believe in the hackers at XDA. They are really talented and making impossible things easy for every user.
Maybe he sideloaded the app somehow?
Budniu said:
You can try this: http://www.windowsmania.pl/poradnik...1gb-na-telefonach-z-512mb-nowy-poradnik-4504/
This is Polish site, but you can use google translator
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, I will try this as soon as I have the device. Does this really work for sure?
I don't know because I don't need that, but people wrote that is working good.
Hello... hope this finds everyone well.
I am a long time android user and keep getting the urge to jump into the windows phone arena. I was just curious from those who have done the switch what you found good and bad about the experience. Just looking for justifications from either spectrum really before doing so I appreciate all of your time and look forward to hearing your experiences.
Thanks!!
Tancreddo said:
Hello... hope this finds everyone well.
I am a long time android user and keep getting the urge to jump into the windows phone arena. I was just curious from those who have done the switch what you found good and bad about the experience. Just looking for justifications from either spectrum really before doing so I appreciate all of your time and look forward to hearing your experiences.
Thanks!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, it's nice to see you're willing to make the switch.
Honestly, there are some things from Android that you're going to miss here, but there's also a bunch of new exciting stuff on WP, so in the end it all depends on your ability to adopt something new and different.
Although I don't use an Android phone as a daily device (because that place is taken by my Lumia 820), I have one for various mods and stuff, and I just find WP a better option for me (but obviously both have their advantages and disadvantages). The difference in performance and optimization is most visible on low-end hardware - WP excels there, Android not so much. There's also a difference in terms of features and customizability - all those nifty things you could change/modify/replace in Android are mostly not in WP. The hardware of WP mostly caught up to Android, so there shouldn't be any deal breakers there. The store is growing daily and now includes most "major" apps, but it really depends on you whether you'll be able to find your apps or not.
But before you decide and make opinions about WP, I urge you to wait for the 8.1 update - it brings a lot of new stuff and further refines the user experience, so it'd be wise to make judgment based on that. If you can, I suggest you get a cheap WP to have the first taste of the platform, and then decide if you want to upgrade or go back to Android.
In any case, make a decision based on your own opinion and experiences, it'll surely be the right decision for you.
I switched from my Nexus 4 to my Lumia 520 a few months ago.. one thing I noticed is the speed difference. Even though the 520 only has 512 mb of RAM, it feels more fluid than my Nexus 4.
I actually just made the switch.
From a Nexus 4 to a Lumia 925
Its been about a week, so far not regretting it at all. I managed to find all but i think 3 apps or so that i used on android in the WP store. One thing you will notice, some apps dont have all the functionality as they do on android.
What i do notice about WP is that everything is much more fluid. Tasks are easier and quicker to do. Also, in a lot of cases some of the apps on WP are generally nicer than you'll find elsewhere. I am really glad i made the switch. My main reason for switching was because i was just bored with my Nexus, wanted something different.
The only thing that its really missing at the moment is a google music app, i noticed like the day i got my WP, google changed the api or something in google music with borked all the gmusic apps on the windows store. But in everyday use, i dont miss it much. I just use pandora.
Give it a try, people hate on the apps and selection (i did too at one point) but WP has a great selection and some of the apps are absolutely beautiful.
Many people have a go at WP without ever trying it so well done to the OP for this thread.
I have had 10 Android phones and 4 tablets in the past 4 or so years. I think Android is a fantastic OS, easily the most powerful, feature rich and customisable available. In January I was contemplating swapping my N4 for a N5. However looking around at the fact that Android is so popular now I thought about trying WP8. So I got a brand new Ativ S for £140. The plan was to run two phones for a bit. The thing was I never looked at my N4. I know the lack some Google services is a problem but I have music, email & calendar one way or another so I can still interact with my Android family members.
The biggest let down in WP8 is the browser. IE is …. erm not very good. It needs text reflow (but so does Chrome) as a start but in reality MS need to open the platform to allow other browsers to run their own engines.
My advice is to see how tied in you are to Google and Android apps and see if any are missing on WP8. If the missing ones are vital to you then maybe WP8 isn’t for you.
I am now waiting for the new set hardware coming later in the year. I will then decide whether to get a new WP device or go back to android.
finbaar said:
The biggest let down in WP8 is the browser. IE is …. erm not very good. It needs text reflow (but so does Chrome) as a start but in reality MS need to open the platform to allow other browsers to run their own engines.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Luckily, IE is getting several improvements in 8.1, so it'll be a more viable option for people. The thing that's missing the most IMO is password management. Every decent browser should have it...
finbaar said:
My advice is to see how tied in you are to Google and Android apps and see if any are missing on WP8. If the missing ones are vital to you then maybe WP8 isn’t for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, if you're heavily tied into Google's ecosystem, you may need to reconsider your choice. Not that support for Google's products and services totally sucks, but it's quite lacking compared to what it could be (mostly Google's fault). But the good thing is, if you manage to make the switch to Microsoft's services, they've got you covered.
Me too.. my final android phone was the Xperia z (for a few days).. i just got bored of Android, wanted something different... i may get the LG G Pro 2 when it comes to the Market as a second phone, but my Nokia 1520 is not going anywhere in the near Future.
Super_Sport said:
Me too.. my final android phone was the Xperia z (for a few days).. i just got bored of Android, wanted something different... i may get the LG G Pro 2 when it comes to the Market as a second phone, but my Nokia 1520 is not going anywhere in the near Future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am considering a WP however the applications ... Will I be able to install free programs like we do on Android? I can download games and chunky programs from android app sites, and don't burn my precious internet credit.
agispapatias said:
I am considering a WP however the applications ... Will I be able to install free programs like we do on Android? I can download games and chunky programs from android app sites, and don't burn my precious internet credit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on how you define "free". There's free and trial versions of apps available on WP as well. There's only one store for WP, but you don't really need 10 app stores just to get your apps, do you? But if you're talking about piracy, you're out of luck.
DaviUnic said:
Depends on how you define "free". There's free and trial versions of apps available on WP as well. There's only one store for WP, but you don't really need 10 app stores just to get your apps, do you? But if you're talking about piracy, you're out of luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mean is the system accessible like android? In android I can download and install apps from other sources like app sites.
Do WP has a similar system?
As I said, no, and doesn't really need one because quality apps are found in the store. The only other source of apps are homemade apps, but you need dev unlock for that.
DaviUnic said:
you need dev unlock for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It`s free. And @reker says you`re free to install 10 apps now (was 2 for free unlock).
Hello,
I just wanted to know if the Android Wear Project is also getting open source, cause we have so many Smartwatches that are allready based on Android (Gear, Moto Actv,...) so porting Android Wear over to them is not the hardest thing.
If you find something, please let me know!
Regards
Yes, IMO a VERY important question that hasn't been answered yet.
I would be concerned that Google felt it was TOO open with Android proper and tried to restrict Wear even more.
If the current preview emulator is a good indication, then Wear is just another variant of Android. Many normal apps can run on it right now, though with issues. I tested my own app and it more or less worked, with a squished UI.
So I think a LOT of the Wear code is effectively already IN AOSP already.
But will Google release enough Wear specific code for custom ROMs to be built ? I very much hope so.
i
That will be gr8
custom launchers
like wht devs did on galaxy gear (they installed nova launcher on it)
or using custom keyboard like minuum beside voice input.
system dump;
source
Praying for a port of Android Wear for Galaxy Gear!!!!
traxxasislife said:
Praying for a port of Android Wear for Galaxy Gear!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Prayer is the only remote hope you have, I think.
There are reasons Gears are going cheap now.
You really think Samsung won't take every opportunity to sell you new wearables, EVERY year at least ?
EVERY few months, new, "in fashion" designs.
Every year, moar cores, LOL.
We'll be overclocking on both wrists to keep our hands warm in winter...
mikereidis said:
We'll be overclocking on both wrists to keep our hands warm in winter...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's genius! Perfect winter accessory:silly:
Android wear without wear
Couldn't we just built a custom android wear version which is based on one of the regular open source android versions? Like e.g. android kitkat with a special launcher and a way to display notifications similar to android wear
Finkes said:
Couldn't we just built a custom android wear version which is based on one of the regular open source android versions? Like e.g. android kitkat with a special launcher and a way to display notifications similar to android wear
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO they're going to need to for it to be usable by the pro-android anti-google crowd.
I have the LG G Watch and I have it unlocked with TWRP and a custom ROM on it. However it still can't connect to my phone unless I have a Google account on it, so I can use the Play Store to download the Android Wear app and connect it via Bluetooth.
So I figured "fine whatever, I'll just put it in airplane mode and use it as a regular watch until someone comes up with an Open Source solution" right?
Wrong, turns out I CAN'T EVEN CHANGE THE TIME! It updates that from the phone which updates from the time servers on the net. Good thing I have an older phone that I can stick Google on to work with it I guess.
All I want is my texts on my watch without having to get spied upon by the almighty Google.
Also, they should call it AWOSP because it sounds awesome.
has anyone flashed new stock based rom by DroidMote Server / Client?
https://plus.google.com/+VideomapIt/posts/WLMsgEqw7dw
digweed4me said:
has anyone flashed new stock based rom by DroidMote Server / Client?
https://plus.google.com/+VideomapIt/posts/WLMsgEqw7dw
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is a great rom overall but is not 4k/1080p friendly (as far as video playback is concerned in Youtube and Netflix) and you will lose leanback launcher functionality.
https://plus.google.com/+VideomapIt/posts/QiC1Pksvzaq
https://youtu.be/NMqz8e33oq8
With Android you can do all. With Android TV no. Now and forever because Android TV was invented for TV manufacturers that want a limited OS to better sell their services.
This is what I understand but I hope to be wrong.
zulu99 said:
https://plus.google.com/+VideomapIt/posts/QiC1Pksvzaq
https://youtu.be/NMqz8e33oq8
With Android you can do all. With Android TV no. Now and forever because Android TV was invented for TV manufacturers that want a limited OS to better sell their services.
This is what I understand but I hope to be wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
completly wrong.
Android TV is a full Android plus new TV features (search,recommendations,background playback). It's not limited.
It's just the launcher and the store that 'filter' apps that are not specifically optimized for a TV experience (= with a remote instead of touchscreen).
Savvy people can sideload and use any apps on Android TV.
But the goal of Google and TV manufacturers isn't to provide a system for savvy users, that would be a niche market and not worth their time & money.
They want a system anyone can use, the average user. A simple to use and consistent interface from app to app, while keeping the full power of Android behind the scene. Because nothing is more confusing for the average guy than using a 'made for touchscreen' app on a TV or using apps with different 'UI behavior' , it's the best way for him to throw away the whole thing in the trashcan
TV manufacturers don't sell services anyway, they sell TV...
kgersen said:
completly wrong.
Android TV is a full Android plus new TV features (search,recommendations,background playback). It's not limited.
It's just the launcher and the store that 'filter' apps that are not specifically optimized for a TV experience (= with a remote instead of touchscreen).
Savvy people can sideload and use any apps on Android TV.
But the goal of Google and TV manufacturers isn't to provide a system for savvy users, that would be a niche market and not worth their time & money.
They want a system anyone can use, the average user. A simple to use and consistent interface from app to app, while keeping the full power of Android behind the scene. Because nothing is more confusing for the average guy than using a 'made for touchscreen' app on a TV or using apps with different 'UI behavior' , it's the best way for him to throw away the whole thing in the trashcan
TV manufacturers don't sell services anyway, they sell TV...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is a FACT that with Android we can do all. Also specific things of Android TV. The inverse is not possible. But i'm very sorry of this
But this is not problem, the important fact is that Nvidia Shield Console have very good hardware and finally we can have a good full Android device connected to our TV.
The choice from Android TV and full Android is a reality so advanced users can have the alternative.
If it was not a question of money / forced limitations, should be more simple create a specific Launcher for TV that all can download from Google Play and specific apps more accessible with a dpad also downloadable for all from Google Play.
zulu99 said:
Is a FACT that with Android we can do all. Also specific things of Android TV. The inverse is not possible. But i'm very sorry of this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no
Android TV is Android + more features..
I don't get what you can do with Android that you can't do with Android TV.
Actually it's the contrary: you can do stuff with Android TV that you can't do with Android, for instance acting as a Chromecast (Google Cast Receiver) or displaying a video in the background of your launcher (home screen) from an app.
kgersen said:
no
Android TV is Android + more features..
I don't get what you can do with Android that you can't do with Android TV.
Actually it's the contrary: you can do stuff with Android TV that you can't do with Android, for instance acting as a Chromecast (Google Cast Receiver) or displaying a video in the background of your launcher (home screen) from an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only one example of others million, install chrome browser and observe how it look bad at 320 dpi. Like the most negative phone of 10 years ago.
Android TV is a stripped down version of Android full of limitations.
Chromecast functionality are possible also on full Android.
Android is Android because you can install and update million of apps directly from Google Play. Android without apps is nothing. This is also the difference with Windows Phone, Ubuntu Phone and many others OS that dream the android apps ecosystem.
The actual number of Android apps in Google Play is a reality because independent developers thought that Android would have been a real open source OS, no longer thinks so after so many closures.
Apart that every single standard app is better and faster than the leanback version. Try Youtube as example to better understand. Life is too short to waste time with the directionals keys. Was already a failure on old Smart TV.
But if in the world there are people that bought an Iphone, This justifies even people who prefer Android TV
My interest is not to be right about this, i'm very happy with full Android. I'm just sharing my experience and i know Android quite well.
The thread of full Android firmware is this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/android/development/rom-t3138575
I don't understand why for this good hardware, one of the best in the Android world, we can't have a regular forum like all others devices.
Can someone explain ? please. Just for information.
@zulu99 I have a nexus player, I'm currently running CM12.1 but even on stock there was not much I couldn't do.
There is an app to allow easy use of sideloaded apps, a keyboard/trackpad combo let's you navigate without the directional keys on everything but the lean back laucher. Only thing I wasn't able to do is get the VPN working well (had to use separate VPN app, no built in VPN). I'm not saying ATV is better then Normal Android, just that you can do almost anything with a little effort. ATV is Android, same kernel and the core is built on the same code as normal Android.
Android is still very much an open ecosystem. Yes some things are locked away, but nothing as draconian as Apple or Microsoft. Even without root a lot more is possible on a system running Android then any other comparable platform (Android wear vs WatchOS, Android vs iOS, etc). I respect that you are a developer, I just think your 100% wrong in your view on ATV.
I'll be getting the Shield soon as a gaming/streaming TV console for an upcoming multi month work trip.
zulu99 said:
Only one example of others million, install chrome browser and observe how it look bad at 320 dpi. Like the most negative phone of 10 years ago.
Android TV is a stripped down version of Android full of limitations.
Chromecast functionality are possible also on full Android.
Android is Android because you can install and update million of apps directly from Google Play. Android without apps is nothing. This is also the difference with Windows Phone, Ubuntu Phone and many others OS that dream the android apps ecosystem.
The actual number of Android apps in Google Play is a reality because independent developers thought that Android would have been a real open source OS, no longer thinks so after so many closures.
Apart that every single standard app is better and faster than the leanback version. Try Youtube as example to better understand. Life is too short to waste time with the directionals keys. Was already a failure on old Smart TV.
But if in the world there are people that bought an Iphone, This justifies even people who prefer Android TV
My interest is not to be right about this, i'm very happy with full Android. I'm just sharing my experience and i know Android quite well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If Chrome looks bad on TV isn't because of the OS... You "know Android quite well" but you clearly don't know what is an OS and what is an app and where the 'frontier' between the two is.
You're confusing a lot of things and mixing things up.
Plz do show me Chromecasting Netflix for instance on what you call "full Android" (which I just call "Android").
I agree with Zulu. If you want locked down hardware and software, please go buy an Apple TV. And you also probably have no reason to go to XDA developers as this site is all about tweaking. Without root, what tweaking are you doing?
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
well said @machx1111
Leave zulu99 to his noble developing work @kgersen Some of us find this sort of stuff really useful.
I get that you don't personally find it useful but your comments seem to be borderline insulting considering the effort zulu99 has gone to. This forum really isn't the place for criticism unless it's constructive.
BenjiHansell said:
well said @machx1111
Leave zulu99 to his noble developing work @kgersen Some of us find this sort of stuff really useful.
I get that you don't personally find it useful but your comments seem to be borderline insulting considering the effort zulu99 has gone to. This forum really isn't the place for criticism unless it's constructive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wth are you talking about? did you even read our comments ?
I never said we mustn't root or do alternative ROM or that I want locked-down devices and software.
We're just talking about Android vs Android TV.
I just don't get why people waste their time porting CM or a 'smartphone/tablet/touch' version of Android to the Shield when it already has a full OS: Android TV and that NVidia already provides all the source and tools to build your own firmware for it: https://developer.nvidia.com/shield-open-source
I think they're just transposing what they had to do on smartphones and tablets because OEMs won't release the sources and tools to build your own firmware, to a new device just because it also run Android... They didn't bother looking up or asking NVidia...
Android TV is Android, if you don't like the 'TV' part just don't use it, go download the source code from NVidia and adapt/change what you don't want or add new features. If you prefer to use an UI made for touch on a TV that's your choice...hell you can even adapt Linux for Tegra for the Shield if you want Ubuntu instead of Android.
I'm all for tinkering and rooting but do it right, even more when the manufacturer can help you do so.
_Dennis_ said:
@zulu99 I have a nexus player, I'm currently running CM12.1 but even on stock there was not much I couldn't do.
There is an app to allow easy use of sideloaded apps, a keyboard/trackpad combo let's you navigate without the directional keys on everything but the lean back laucher. Only thing I wasn't able to do is get the VPN working well (had to use separate VPN app, no built in VPN). I'm not saying ATV is better then Normal Android, just that you can do almost anything with a little effort. ATV is Android, same kernel and the core is built on the same code as normal Android.
Android is still very much an open ecosystem. Yes some things are locked away, but nothing as draconian as Apple or Microsoft. Even without root a lot more is possible on a system running Android then any other comparable platform (Android wear vs WatchOS, Android vs iOS, etc). I respect that you are a developer, I just think your 100% wrong in your view on ATV.
I'll be getting the Shield soon as a gaming/streaming TV console for an upcoming multi month work trip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use Lollirock firmware on Nexus Player and no cyanogenmod if you want a regular Android firmware in which you can install all from Google Play.
I respect the classic Cyanogenmod development / firmwares, but on Nexus Player the cyanogenmod firmware is just a strange hybrid. It use many parts of Android TV. Usually Cyanogenmod add things to Android, on the nexus player it remove things from Android
Not really useful. Read posts of users to better understand.
In lollirock firmware thread in the last part there are comparisons made by users.
---------- Post added at 11:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 AM ----------
kgersen said:
wth are you talking about? did you even read our comments ?
I never said we mustn't root or do alternative ROM or that I want locked-down devices and software.
We're just talking about Android vs Android TV.
I just don't get why people waste their time porting CM or a 'smartphone/tablet/touch' version of Android to the Shield when it already has a full OS: Android TV and that NVidia already provides all the source and tools to build your own firmware for it: https://developer.nvidia.com/shield-open-source
I think they're just transposing what they had to do on smartphones and tablets because OEMs won't release the sources and tools to build your own firmware, to a new device just because it also run Android... They didn't bother looking up or asking NVidia...
Android TV is Android, if you don't like the 'TV' part just don't use it, go download the source code from NVidia and adapt/change what you don't want or add new features. If you prefer to use an UI made for touch on a TV that's your choice...hell you can even adapt Linux for Tegra for the Shield if you want Ubuntu instead of Android.
I'm all for tinkering and rooting but do it right, even more when the manufacturer can help you do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
About you, instead of writing things without sense, present to us your work. We will happy to test.
What are you doing for others people ?
If you like Android TV why you write here ?
Please i don't want problems with others users.
I'm already exposing myself too much.
But is necessary to demonstrate that we understand very well when things are necessary and others things are just made to protect economic interests against the fair competitive laws.
Apart all, is not most useful that you can do more things instead of be able to do just what others wants ?
Why we should remain closed in the Android TV that is a "Walled Garden". Because you don't like ?
Two things are always better than one.
p.s.
Netflix work well in full Android firmware, like google movies app and all others DRM players.
Chromecast functionality are working too.
Usually i use Chromecast functionality only if there isn't an app to do it natively inside the box. Is stupid stream with chromecast if you can have it native inside the box. But you can do all with quite all apps. also screen mirroring is possible. tested with my galaxy s6 and nexus7
All others Leanback-Only apps are working well ( 10 / 11 in total )
also xposed framework is beautiful to tweak your firmware.
When i read comments like your i'm very happy, because usually mean that the firmware works very very well
What many people not know is that in Google Plus, Facebook and also in xda forum like in others forum, users can be paid to do good reviews and support some platforms, just to make advertisement. Attention when you read.
RELY ON TESTS MADE ONLY BY YOURSELF
zulu99 said:
Use Lollirock firmware on Nexus Player and no cyanogenmod if you want a regular Android firmware in which you can install all from Google Play.
I respect the classic Cyanogenmod development / firmwares, but on Nexus Player the cyanogenmod firmware is just a strange hybrid. It use many parts of Android TV. Usually Cyanogenmod add things to Android, on the nexus player it remove things from Android
Not really useful. Read posts of users to better understand.
In lollirock firmware thread in the last part there are comparisons made by users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm enjoying the hybrid model used on CM. I get that its not for everyone, was just using it as an example.
I am able to do almost anything I could do on my phone on the TV. Does it all work perfectly? Of course not. Many apps are designed around a multi touch screen, my TV does not have a touchscreen at all. I just don't understand why you feel Android TV is more locked down then standard android. I was able to use es explorer to side load anything I wanted. Does not mean it worked (some apps are not programmed for directional keys and rely on touch input only, so they needed a mouse. Once I got that set up I can use anything fairly well. I have Amazon prime music working great for example, and I have prime videos loaded (haven't used it yet, netflix and hulu have my attention right now). This is all doable on androidTV, can't do it on my Roku, all I can get for amazon music is the non-prime stuff.
I can only think one think of one thing ATV can't do (native VPN) and one thing stock android can't do (well haven't tried sideloading the app yet) and that's receive a chrome cast stream, or send a chrome cast from one phone to tablet or whatever. Mostly the two versions seem comparable, the differences are in the stock apps (read Launcher and play store).
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
_Dennis_ said:
I'm enjoying the hybrid model used on CM. I get that its not for everyone, was just using it as an example.
I am able to do almost anything I could do on my phone on the TV. Does it all work perfectly? Of course not. Many apps are designed around a multi touch screen, my TV does not have a touchscreen at all. I just don't understand why you feel Android TV is more locked down then standard android. I was able to use es explorer to side load anything I wanted. Does not mean it worked (some apps are not programmed for directional keys and rely on touch input only, so they needed a mouse. Once I got that set up I can use anything fairly well. I have Amazon prime music working great for example, and I have prime videos loaded (haven't used it yet, netflix and hulu have my attention right now). This is all doable on androidTV, can't do it on my Roku, all I can get for amazon music is the non-prime stuff.
I can only think one think of one thing ATV can't do (native VPN) and one thing stock android can't do (well haven't tried sideloading the app yet) and that's receive a chrome cast stream, or send a chrome cast from one phone to tablet or whatever. Mostly the two versions seem comparable, the differences are in the stock apps (read Launcher and play store).
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With Android we can install all apps simply from Google Play and all works better at 220 / 230 dpi. Touch-only apps are not a problem, with DroidMote i can use very well multi-touch apps and games.
You will search manually for every single apk when an update is available ? Get it from your phone, upload and reinstall. Baaaaaaaa
Good Luck
p.s.
Today i used all the day the Shield Console with full Android firmware and i can say it is Super. I installed and tested all benchmark apps, all others my preferred apps. All work super smooth and i like this hardware. I will never turn back on Android TV
zulu99 said:
With Android we can install all simply from Google Play and all works better at 220 / 230 dpi. Touch-only apps are not a problem, with DroidMote i can use very well multi-touch apps and games.
You will search manually for every single apk when an update is available ? Get it from your phone, upload and reinstall. Baaaaaaaa
Good Luck
p.s.
Today i used all the day the Shield Console with full Android firmware and i can say it is Super. I installed and tested all benchmark apps, all my preffered apps. All work super smoth and i like this hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not an issue inherent to Android TV, that is a function of the play store.
Don't get me wrong I'll probably try your ROM at some point. I make my own opinions, so I'm constantly trying new stuff.
_Dennis_ said:
That's not an issue inherent to Android TV, that is a function of the play store.
Don't get me wrong I'll probably try your ROM at some point. I make my own opinions, so I'm constantly trying new stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problems. we are here to discuss like good friends. I'm writing from Shield Console in a beautiful Chrome Browser at 220 dpi.
I like to discuss and hear the opinions of others.
I have only one big problem, my bad english. I'm Italian
zulu99 said:
No problems. we are here to discuss like good friends. I'm writing from Shield Console in a beautiful Chrome Browser at 220 dpi.
I like to discuss and hear the opinions of others.
I have only one big problem, my bad english. I'm Italian
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its OK, I'm pretty good at understanding, my wife is Filipino and I lived in Japan for 3 years.
I may attempt to mess with some settings (I noticed a TV setting in build.prop) to see if I can get full play store use without changing much, mainly so anyone can use what ROM they want while getting access to both stores I see that as the best of both worlds.
_Dennis_ said:
I may attempt to mess with some settings (I noticed a TV setting in build.prop) to see if I can get full play store use without changing much, mainly so anyone can use what ROM they want while getting access to both stores I see that as the best of both worlds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a minix neo x8h+ and this box is "seen" by the play store as a leanback compatible box, but it also has access to all the android apps... so this may be a build.prop worth looking at?
I am getting an Nvidia console in a couple of weeks and would love to use leanback BUT not with the added hassle of installing and running non leanback apps.
tx Mark.
I'm looking at the 950XL as it seems to have all the specs of the Nexus 6P but also includes USB 3.1, which is very important to me (I currently have a Note 3 which needs upgrading).
Project Astoria quite interests me; can you use any Android App with this, or just certain ones?
One thing I like about Android is the ability to flash ROMs; I don't think there's anything like this with Windows is there?
(Slightly dodgy topic to talk about) On Android I can just search for an app adding the word 'apk' on Google and download it for free. Is there anyway to do this on Windows?
I used to run Windows Mobile and before that Windows CE, before switching to Android
I just saw your question. Here is some of what I know. As of right now there is an app called 'bluestack' that allows you to run apks as if on android with google services this is a win 8 app though.
There are plus' and minus' here.
1. The feature that makes what you that interested in are win universal apps. That announced by MS is supposed to be repackaged Android apks and converted to universal apps. They then would use Windows services. (a minus or a plus depending on preferences)
2. Blue stack (and its alternatives)may need to be updated to a win 10 universal app. The biggest upside to the 950/xl are that dual booting maybe possible. And a full emulation is possible almost like having 2 phones in one. I say that because of how windows runs or promises to run. With win10 it should be a hackers/tinkerers/dev dream. Leading to more of the apps you may want to port over.
3. Porting maybe possible with the tools MS provide. You maybe able to repackage apks on your own into win10 universal apps.
4.this is the last thing. You maybe able to enjoy 3rd party win10 apps. There are alternatives to twitter for example on windows but no actual Twitter app which some say are better than Twitter's actual app. Also some reporters have said that microsoft are offer to build apps(official) for companies like Twitter and then hand it over to them and they then take over maintenance. But that hasn't worked so far.
Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk
Many thanks for your reply. I've been reading a lot, trying to get my head around the new Windows Phone experience. It seems vastly different from what I used to have on my HTC HD2, which was my last Windows Phone.
One app I use a lot and I find useful is Truecaller, it tells you who's calling, even if you don't have their number in your phone. I presume this needs some sort of integration with the OS. I wonder if Project Astoria offers this level of integration.
My last windows phone was also the HD2 and I've used android ever since. I recently bought a lumia so I could try windows 10 preview. There are a couple of things I miss:
- the ability to transfer files to/from my NAS through WiFi without having to go through a pc
- swipe keyboard doesn't work in some places, eg works in messaging but not in browser
- android .nomedia facility
- banking - my bank is HSBC and they don't have a windows app
If the 950x windows 10 version fixes the first two of these then that will be my next phone.
My banking app also isnt on WP10.
I also like to use DOSbox to play old games on my phone.
Also Torque for hooking up to cars ECU via a bluetooth OBD2 reader.
No Starbucks app
I also use my LG Gwatch to receive notification on my wrist at work. As Im not allowed to get my phone, this is a very very handy feature for me.
I think I'm too invested in Android right now. I am a real Windows 10 Phone wannabe though. I wish I could afford both the Nexus 6P and Lumia 950XL.
Windows Lumia 950xl check every check in the box for what i want in a smartphone on the hardware side... But my issues is that i know that you can port apps over but how many official apps from ios and android made it to the windows store. Once they have app they will have me as a new consumer
https://youtu.be/P2wKJK5cr3M
https://youtu.be/Eu3EMS4dvv8
Look at these vids, they can give you an idea of what to expect with w10 mobile
Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk
Hey folks,
I figured this thread would be a good place to ask since it already existed. A little background. I'm a heavily entrenched Android user since the Evo 4G days and have service with several telecoms and own several phones as well. I saw the new presentation and I was really impressed, however, I need some help to see if the switch is right for me.
1) I use Google Voice to manage all of my numbers and phones. I heard that Skype doesn't allow number Port In, however, does allow forwarding. Does anyone know if this is true? Why don't they allow number Port In? Is it coming in the future? Any creative solutions around this?
2) I don't own a P.C., so Continuum really intrigues me. I've always owned PlayStation and loved being able to stream my PlayStation to my Sony phones and play remotely. Would I be able to stream XBoxOne to my phone and use Continuum to play on a monitor? What about streaming to a T.V. for Netflix or other apps like that?
3) I'm really interested in turning my home "smart". I know that Android has a big IoT platform and it'll be great with NEST and the other things they have coming down the pipeline. What about Windows? Is there a platform available? What products support it? Can it all be phone controlled and do apps exist for them?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated as I'm sure there are others in my boat who might have similar questions.
http://www.technobuffalo.com/2015/09/18/elephone-vowney-dual-boots-android-and-windows-10-for-299/
Guys i thought this may also be useful to keep in mind. There maybe a US compatible version at some point.
Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 02:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 AM ----------
UserDemos said:
Hey folks,
I figured this thread would be a good place to ask since it already existed. A little background. I'm a heavily entrenched Android user since the Evo 4G days and have service with several telecoms and own several phones as well. I saw the new presentation and I was really impressed, however, I need some help to see if the switch is right for me.
1) I use Google Voice to manage all of my numbers and phones. I heard that Skype doesn't allow number Port In, however, does allow forwarding. Does anyone know if this is true? Why don't they allow number Port In? Is it coming in the future? Any creative solutions around this?
2) I don't own a P.C., so Continuum really intrigues me. I've always owned PlayStation and loved being able to stream my PlayStation to my Sony phones and play remotely. Would I be able to stream XBoxOne to my phone and use Continuum to play on a monitor? What about streaming to a T.V. for Netflix or other apps like that?
3) I'm really interested in turning my home "smart". I know that Android has a big IoT platform and it'll be great with NEST and the other things they have coming down the pipeline. What about Windows? Is there a platform available? What products support it? Can it all be phone controlled and do apps exist for them?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated as I'm sure there are others in my boat who might have similar questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So in theory you can do this with windows phone right now. remember one windows isn't anything new. windows 8.1 is on the xbox one. And you can use the pass through feature on any windows device. On windows 10, its all the same, even on mobile because on phone it is full windows running (just slightly different ui, right now if windows 10 on desktop is told its on an under 6inch screen it locks into mobile or atleast the apps do, per windows weekly). Even though it is mobile you could run full photo shop on the phone with a couple of hacks. The one issue is Windows doesn't run well on Arm processors snapdragon 810 and 808... Look out also for a zenfone 2 running Windows 10 mobile. Also the is some one hacking the zenfone to port windows 10.
My dream is for the test windows 10 mobile rom that was being tested on xiaomi mi4 could get ported.
Also microsoft has debated on creating a rom that's flashable to android devices. That helps them get the 1billion user goal. And also attract devs and hacking enthusiasts.
Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk
So this is full Windows 10? But on ARM?
Could I install and run any programs that I can install on my laptop then?
Does the phone have some kind of x86 to ARM translator?
No, it is not full Win10.
It only runs "universal" apps (the successor of the "metro" apps of windows 8/8.1/10)...
Truecaller is already available on win10 mobile. It shows info about who is calling but also can act as your call and text message spam filter, a feature I don't think they have on Android.
I broke my Icon unfortunately so can't post screenshots.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
I'm in the same boat. The 950 checks all my boxes hardware wise, but I do think it'll be hard to switch.
What I am doing is getting a Lumia 640, pretty cheap from BB: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/at-t-go...lack/9231014.p?id=1219701750248&skuId=9231014
Figure that would be a good device to test everything out on and see if I can make the switch. And I could probably sell it in a few months to close to what I paid for it.
Indeed fantastic price.
If my 950 XL proves (too) good, I might get a cheapo previous model so that my wife also switches.
(and only keep my Z4 Tablet LTE - that is getting Marshmallow soon - to keep contact with Android)
I actually waited to the last minute if a really serious device comes out this year from Android and only three came "close but no cigar" (the others far behind including the Note5, a series I used to be a fan and they stupidly killed by turning to a fashion series like S series):
- LG V10. I don't like the little screen (mostly the awkward positioning and that is not AMOLED but is always on - which kind of defeats the concept) and I don't care about the two selfie cams. Also you make it tough. Why not water resistant (at least) also?
- Z5 Premium. I always liked the Z series, but they failed to really advance it and now you can even call it ugly. 4K for a non-4K ready world is just a nice selling bullet. You put a super-MP camers, with no OIS and a simple single LED flash. Goofy.
- Moto X Force. No biometrics at all? In 2015? (also I kind of fear Moto as a brand for years now)
Anyway... few more days to a month to see if we made the right choice.
Love my Windows 10 1511 update that has extras to support coexistense with Win 10 phone...
MSFT don't screw this.
I started with windows hacking until I bought a HTC evo 4g. I have had 4 nexus devices and currently on the nexus 6. When the 950xl becomes available i am ditching the 6 for windows again after several years of android. Just out grew android. It was fun buy going back to where it all started.
No, only universal apps are able to run on Arm and X86 Plattform. W10 is similar on Arm and X86 but all Apps / Programms has to do the step and create Universal Apps while also Microsoft seems to work on Phones which are based on X86 CPU.
So this is a first step into the future which will provide same stuff on Desktop, Tablet and Phones. While Android has no Desktop OS and Apple has IOS and MAC OS seperated, Microsoft did the next step to Melt all worlds together. Now it is on us to support this way and on them to work continously to improve the process.
olarf said:
No, only universal apps are able to run on Arm and X86 Plattform. W10 is similar on Arm and X86 but all Apps / Programms has to do the step and create Universal Apps while also Microsoft seems to work on Phones which are based on X86 CPU.
So this is a first step into the future which will provide same stuff on Desktop, Tablet and Phones. While Android has no Desktop OS and Apple has IOS and MAC OS seperated, Microsoft did the next step to Melt all worlds together. Now it is on us to support this way and on them to work continously to improve the process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel windows mobile will make a come back.
tomzefi said:
I feel windows mobile will make a come back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree and i don't like the way Samsung is heading, no microsSD, removable battery etc.
MS is no Saint with privacy, but Google is ignoring us users more and more.
A bought a 950xl just a few days ago.
Having a Android device for years, this Lumia is fun, new etc.
Although i must say, the available / working apps is a bit....
Anyone has a working Tapatalk yet?
KeesStolk said:
Totally agree and i don't like the way Samsung is heading, no microsSD, removable battery etc.
MS is no Saint with privacy, but Google is ignoring us users more and more.
A bought a 950xl just a few days ago.
Having a Android device for years, this Lumia is fun, new etc.
Although i must say, the available / working apps is a bit....
Anyone has a working Tapatalk yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, apps, always been lacking there. I have a feeling that's gonna change. Windows phone hacking & development is coming back. I will hold on to my nexus and gonna get the 950xl
KeesStolk said:
Totally agree and i don't like the way Samsung is heading, no microsSD, removable battery etc.
MS is no Saint with privacy, but Google is ignoring us users more and more.
A bought a 950xl just a few days ago.
Having a Android device for years, this Lumia is fun, new etc.
Although i must say, the available / working apps is a bit....
Anyone has a working Tapatalk yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same for me, I used Sammy phones for some years now and it seems they lost the track more and more. For sure there is a need for more apps but its a bit a Chicken and Egg thing. If you ask Software companies they tell you that there are not enough Windows phones to make it worth to develop a APP and if you ask customers they tell you that there are not enough apps to make it worth buying a Windows Phone... Actually I see Windows Phones appear in more and more companies where they replace IPhones. ALso the Bridge Projects seems to be more promissing then the Astoria one. For us as WP users we must not care about as most good apps exist for IOS and ANdroid at the same time. If the porting from IOS work good, we will get a lot of apps soon. The rest is on Microsoft then, they have to motivate companies to create a lot of universal apps. Actually the 950/950XL seems to be the only phones with some inovation right now. Lets see end of 2016 where we are.
I forget to mention that there exist a Tapatalk app and it works. Not that good but it works and do the job.