V20 VS G6? Which one should I pick? - LG V20 Questions & Answers

So the lg v20 and the G6 is going at 155$ here, which one should I get? I really listen to music a lot, like a lot and I take pictures of scenery here and there, but I heard lg v20s rear camera lens cover cracks! Which cracks without even bumping into anything or whatever? Is it that bad? I really really wanna get the v20 but that problem really concerns me so should I get the v20 or the G6?
It would be a great help, I am really struggling to decide.
TIA.

a safe haven said:
So the lg v20 and the G6 is going at 155$ here, which one should I get? I really listen to music a lot, like a lot and I take pictures of scenery here and there, but I heard lg v20s rear camera lens cover cracks! Which cracks without even bumping into anything or whatever? Is it that bad? I really really wanna get the v20 but that problem really concerns me so should I get the v20 or the G6?
It would be a great help, I am really struggling to decide.
TIA.
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Click to collapse
Go for the V20. Dropped mine without a case douzend times. The only thing I did was installing a 9H Glass on the cams. Very stable now. As you can see V20 in general is more physically reliable and you have a swappable battery! G6 looks better though. If you are going for the G6 keep in mind that not all versions are having the DAC. I love my LG V20 so much that I bought a spare one. Dual sim New for 150 euro. :victory:

V20.
I've had both and it's a better overall phone

mrtomaso said:
V20.
I've had both and it's a better overall phone
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Why do you prefer the v20 over the G6? Since you used both, can you tell me the reason by v20 is better please?

a safe haven said:
Why do you prefer the v20 over the G6? Since you used both, can you tell me the reason by v20 is better please?
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Biggest reason for me is the screen ratio. I don't like the new 'tall' screens, they don't handle video playback as well. (lot of Netflix and mx player here) instead, the v20 has the very useful 2nd screen.
Second... The second screen. Sounds like a gimmick, but love it. Nice to be able to use the flashlight preview messages without even turning on your phone.
Third... Removable battery. They're both older phones, but I like the battery pull option or replacing the battery when the time comes.
I us3d to be a 'replace' phone asap kinda person. Ever since the ppc6700, I was always upgrading. That changed 4 years ago when I bought a used note 4. Loved that phone, but I appreciate the zip/e5c of the v20.
For me, 100 bucks well spent. (sold the note 4 for 75, winner!)

mrtomaso said:
Biggest reason for me is the screen ratio. I don't like the new 'tall' screens, they don't handle video playback as well. (lot of Netflix and mx player here) instead, the v20 has the very useful 2nd screen.
Second... The second screen. Sounds like a gimmick, but love it. Nice to be able to use the flashlight preview messages without even turning on your phone.
Third... Removable battery. They're both older phones, but I like the battery pull option or replacing the battery when the time comes.
I us3d to be a 'replace' phone asap kinda person. Ever since the ppc6700, I was always upgrading. That changed 4 years ago when I bought a used note 4. Loved that phone, but I appreciate the zip/e5c of the v20.
For me, 100 bucks well spent. (sold the note 4 for 75, winner!)
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Thank you for your answer, but i am worried about the issue that v20's rear camera glass cracks with any little pressure, is that true? Did it ever happen to you? And hows the nightime photography for both of the phone since i mostly go outside at night and i like to take photos at night so it matters a lot to me, if you can give me some heads up on this, i can decide, it would be a great help!
Thank you!

a safe haven said:
Thank you for your answer, but i am worried about the issue that v20's rear camera glass cracks with any little pressure, is that true? Did it ever happen to you? And hows the nightime photography for both of the phone since i mostly go outside at night and i like to take photos at night so it matters a lot to me, if you can give me some heads up on this, i can decide, it would be a great help!
Thank you!
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Click to collapse
I've had the v20 for 4 months and it's been a while since I've had the g6. (returned the g6 and went back to my note 4, aspect ratio annoyed me)
Might be mistaken, but I thought the cameras were pretty close or exactly the same? I was shocked at how good the camera was on the v20 (g6 too) compared to my note 4.
Bought my b20 used and with a solid case, camera lense is protected.

Hey so I've had 3 V20s and a LG G6 which I gave to my daughter. I love the V20 also because of the old 16:9 aspect ratio. And the removable battery is great for long trips. But I hate to say it but I think my beloved V20 is ending it's lifespan. I would think Oreo is last update it will get. And I tried Lineage but I need stock camera and DAC audio. And all my V20s had screen burn in. Never broke my camera lens on any of them but I guess I could see how that could happen because it protrudes a little. I guess my point is maybe G6 will have a little longer life. G6 is still a really good phone.

Related

So G5 owners with a handset older than 4 weeks.

What is your opinion now? Still think its a good choice?
Personally i think its a great phone sold short, looking at the hardware and potential i think the handset would easy have a 2 year life span.
But i would like to see bigger modular support, things like physical keyboard, physical zoom lenses etc. And i would like to see some of the software updated a bit closer to the V20.
My biggest concern? Physically will it last 2 years? The build quality aint bad but it aint great.
jamiee6610 said:
What is your opinion now? Still think its a good choice?
Personally i think its a great phone sold short, looking at the hardware and potential i think the handset would easy have a 2 year life span.
But i would like to see bigger modular support, things like physical keyboard, physical zoom lenses etc. And i would like to see some of the software updated a bit closer to the V20.
My biggest concern? Physically will it last 2 years? The build quality aint bad but it aint great.
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Click to collapse
Had it for 4 months, never Had a problem, just a bit of light bleeding, but it's visible only in Dark area with full brightness.
Best smartphone I ever had.
Last three were before it were Moto X Pure, Droid Turbo, and HTC M8.
I have since May, great phone. It has some issues but which phone doesn't. Ghosting happens on thia screen sometimes but nothing permanent, it goes away. I got scratches on the camera glass which is annoying (although easily replacable if you don't care about the warranty). Battery lasts around 4 hours SOT with around 30 hours of usage. I got the battery + external charger kit from Amazon for 30$ which is just great to have. Screen could be brighter. Super bright mode isn't stable enough. The camera is amazing! I love it (and I have a group of already 350 G5 photographers on Facebook). The speaker is one of the best in the market. It's fast, fingerprint sensor works great, colors are good.. I'm very happy with the phone! Oh.. important! The screen is curved on top which can be super annoying if you like to apply a tempered glass acreen protector. I don't have any issues with the build quality. I would prefer the V20 just because I like the big screen..other than that they are pretty similar. I think the G5 is the most underrated phone in the last in the last few years.
I got two of them - one for me and one for a friend. I am not really concerned about the quality, why shouldn't it last more than two years? It gives a great bang for the buck. If money isn't a concern, I would aim for the V20 (bought the G5 before it was announced and it may not be released where I live). I was with Samsung phones and Tablet for several years now but I think LG also does a good job here.
Love it. Great phone but I wouldn't have it for two years. I have Jump by T-Mobile for a reason. The only thing I hate is no matter how much they say the phone screen is scratch resistant, if I have my keys and phone in the same pocket it gets scratched. Planning on getting the V20 when it comes out. LG is taking forever to release it.
Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk
XAlexander_AlexanderX said:
Love it. Great phone but I wouldn't have it for two years. I have Jump by T-Mobile for a reason. The only thing I hate is no matter how much they say the phone screen is scratch resistant, if I have my keys and phone in the same pocket it gets scratched. Planning on getting the V20 when it comes out. LG is taking forever to release it.
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Yep, i can confirm this, and not only on my G5 but also on a S7 Edge of a friend, it seems that corning Got worse in these years on the scratch part...
I love the phone but I'm extremely disappointed in the GPS issue as I use my phone for navigation quite a lot. And my battery has never been to great. But that's probably because I'm used to the battery life I was getting on my iPhone 6 plus and Nexus 6P (wish I never sold my 6P). The camera is fantastic and as I have 2 little ones it's great for taking pictures of them.
Love my phone G5 coming from my G2 which I gave to my mother and she loves it. Camera, performance and the like are all great on my G5
GPS is fast and no issue.
bluerain28 said:
Love my phone G5 coming from my G2 which I gave to my mother and she loves it. Camera, performance and the like are all great on my G5
GPS is fast and no issue.
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Your lucky then. I try to use mine to navigate and it's hit and miss, most of the times miss and just says searching
Have had it since it rolled out. Not a single problem or issue. So impressed with it, in fact, that I recommended it to the wife and my parents when it was time for them to renew/upgrade. So now we all have g5's. Didn't recommend it to my in laws because..... They are my in laws. And because they are under the impression that "Apple is the only quality phone manufacturer". Their loss hahahaha.
I am honestly ready to throw mine through a wall. Gps is always searching and i use it alot for work. Wifi will just stop working for no reason. I am currently trying to get out of this phone. Worst phone ever.
Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk
Had mine for a month now only problem i've found is the GPS i'm gonna try some calibration software to see if there is a difference. This phone should be good for two years i think.
I like it a lot, especially camera and loudspeaker. Even better with Poetic Rugged case.
I got mine like 2 month ago and is pretty nice fast and non rooted yet just waiting how will move
I'm using it for a month now and I still can't find a flow. I like the design, love the camera, the software and hardware are doing well. Overall it's a great device. Oh, and I don't care about the moduls, don't plan to use them anyway.
Look at my warranty thread. It's been a nightmare. LG refused to switch out the housing when I sent it in, and they scratched it. Had to change the housing myself, luckily it wasn't that expensive. So far, most of the issues I had are gone. GPS is fine now, and the LCD isn't yellowing anymore.

Do you recommend the V20?

In the market for a new phone. Should i just wait or buy the V20?
I've heard LG's phones suffer from bootloops and also the V20 has a speaker issue.
Im tempted to wait for the S8
Majorcrafter said:
In the market for a new phone. Should i just wait or buy the V20?
I've heard LG's phones suffer from bootloops and also the V20 has a speaker issue.
Im tempted to wait for the S8
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Click to collapse
Not sure what bootloops you are referring to on this thing but mine hasn't done anything. Coming from the Note 4, I really like this thing. It gets much better cell reception in tough places than my Note did.
Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
I do.
Coming from a Nexus 5 (2013 model). This phone is a beast. Granted it wont develop bootloop, camera glass cracking, or speakerphone issues in the future. Everything works fine, and I am very happy with it. I have the T-Mobile version (non rooted, yet)
Majorcrafter said:
In the market for a new phone. Should i just wait or buy the V20?
I've heard LG's phones suffer from bootloops and also the V20 has a speaker issue.
Im tempted to wait for the S8
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have a Note 4 right now, this'll be a good replacement. I came from a Note 4 and I'm really enjoying my experience with the V20 so far.
I have had a few issues, mainly with software. On my original unit (I'm on T-Mobile), the camera was a bit funky (severe lens flare in some situations and heavy noise reduction). On my new one, the second screen was all wonky with brightness for a few days, before magically fixing itself.
Aside from that though, it's a great phone. Battery life, even with a slightly smaller battery and IPS screen, is much better than my Note's. Second screen is gimicky and fun, but it's also actually useful. Since it has IR and a removable battery, it was really the only way to go for me. No water resistance, but I've never had a problem with that before.
The G4, V10 and Nexus 5X all have bootloader issues, but they all share the Snapdragon 810 and the same faulty connection, so I doubt it's going to be an issue on here.
I don't remember seeing any speaker issues aside from the people who blew their earpiece speakers out with a stereo sound mod. I certainly haven't had any problems.
Get the phone and try it out. Most places have return periods that you can use if you end up not liking it. Contrary to what a lot of previous Note 7 owners have said, I don't think this phone is overpriced. I got it for $80 less than the Note 7 cost, and it has more features than that phone. (From my completely subjective and secondhand experience with the Note 7, I think this phone also performs faster.)
Zacharee1 said:
If you have a Note 4 right now, this'll be a good replacement. I came from a Note 4 and I'm really enjoying my experience with the V20 so far.
I have had a few issues, mainly with software. On my original unit (I'm on T-Mobile), the camera was a bit funky (severe lens flare in some situations and heavy noise reduction). On my new one, the second screen was all wonky with brightness for a few days, before magically fixing itself.
Aside from that though, it's a great phone. Battery life, even with a slightly smaller battery and IPS screen, is much better than my Note's. Second screen is gimicky and fun, but it's also actually useful. Since it has IR and a removable battery, it was really the only way to go for me. No water resistance, but I've never had a problem with that before.
The G4, V10 and Nexus 5X all have bootloader issues, but they all share the Snapdragon 810 and the same faulty connection, so I doubt it's going to be an issue on here.
I don't remember seeing any speaker issues aside from the people who blew their earpiece speakers out with a stereo sound mod. I certainly haven't had any problems.
Get the phone and try it out. Most places have return periods that you can use if you end up not liking it. Contrary to what a lot of previous Note 7 owners have said, I don't think this phone is overpriced. I got it for $80 less than the Note 7 cost, and it has more features than that phone. (From my completely subjective and secondhand experience with the Note 7, I think this phone also performs faster.)
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Awesome! thanks for the info!
Majorcrafter said:
Awesome! thanks for the info!
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No problem.
Also, for now, I'd recommend against the S8. Latest rumors say no headphone jack.
Zacharee1 said:
No problem.
Also, for now, I'd recommend against the S8. Latest rumors say no headphone jack.
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I complete agree!
i hate the fact companies are starting to remove the headphone jack
I came form a Note 5 and I'm completely in love with my V20 It's so much more reliable and it actually stays cool. Plus the battery is almost unkillable.
Majorcrafter said:
I complete agree!
i hate the fact companies are starting to remove the headphone jack
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Ugh, There is NO comparison to a good wired connection. WTF are these companies thinking!

Really conflicted: V20 or S7 Edge?

So it's been a few months since I've been planning to replace my old Sammy Note 3, and now I can finally do it. And since I took the decision to replace it, I kept looking at comparisons between all the flagships out there, and the concluding battle is left between the V20 and the S7 Edge. Why I'm still conflicted after all this time is because of a couple of things: I've seen that the S7's camera is a bit better in the reviews, but most of them were testing using V20 test versions, so I believe the camera quality improved a bit, and I'm also a big lover of landscapes so the wide angle camera will surely come in handy... There's also that thing that V20's camera lenses suddenly crack, but I've seen that it sometimes happens with the S7 too, so I don't really know. And last but not the least, the fact that the speaker gets broken. Sure, all the technical problems wouldn't be much trouble if the phone wasn't such a ***** to get your hands on here in Romania, so I don't know what they are going to repair and what not with the included warranty.
Edge for sure.
The v20 dosent have it....
LG is bad at building phones.
Saumsung is much better not including the note 7.
and samsung have a grater devs forum.
Samsung is garbage now. I have never owned an LG product but have always had Sammy devices and an HTC........LG V20 is the best phone I've ever had. Only thing is its not water resistant but who wants to put their phone in water? Not me......You will be happy with the LG.....Sammy is not that great anymore. Plus I've taken 4 or 5 phones back as they have had hardware issues. I use phones hard......LG is doing a great job and under the radar.
Carried the s7.. the edeg.. note 7... this lg v20.. the htc 10.. the note 5..
The htc is falling behind with poor cameras but they have oem bootloader unlocks supported by htc some what.
The lg v20 has a good camera.. and the landscapes are cool... but lg phones in the past have been overheating and dying within 2 years and have had some design flaws. The v20 is big and bright.. but does make me worry how long it really will last with my kinda use.
And the samsung series..
Man.. I love my samasungs.. I miss the oled screens they use and how rich the colors are. And their camera is great also..I loved the note 7 and it luckily was rooted with a leaked img almost same day.. and here leads me to the cons.. everything s7 and newer is going to be bootloader locked. Root is going to be a lot harder and gonna take longer or be blocked almost fully because of this in the future without a leak or a bunch of devs.. this put me off samsung until they can provide a unlock..
So take it as is.. get what you want and underatand the pros and cons.. some will have to do with market base to and witch devices get the most love and development..
Maybe a pixel xl? Lol
Definitely the V20, I just sold my S7 Edge and I'm not looking back. Audio quality is the best of any smartphone without the need for an external AMP/DAC. The fingerprint sensor is so much better/more accurate on the V20 and it doesn't have an annoying edge that you hit all the time with the palm of your hand. Also it has USB-C which IMO is much better than Micro USB, more solid connection and faster transfer speeds.
Oh and don't forget the IR blaster, how many other phones have one? So useful.
UL7RA said:
So it's been a few months since I've been planning to replace my old Sammy Note 3, and now I can finally do it. And since I took the decision to replace it, I kept looking at comparisons between all the flagships out there, and the concluding battle is left between the V20 and the S7 Edge. Why I'm still conflicted after all this time is because of a couple of things: I've seen that the S7's camera is a bit better in the reviews, but most of them were testing using V20 test versions, so I believe the camera quality improved a bit, and I'm also a big lover of landscapes so the wide angle camera will surely come in handy... There's also that thing that V20's camera lenses suddenly crack, but I've seen that it sometimes happens with the S7 too, so I don't really know. And last but not the least, the fact that the speaker gets broken. Sure, all the technical problems wouldn't be much trouble if the phone wasn't such a ***** to get your hands on here in Romania, so I don't know what they are going to repair and what not with the included warranty.
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I've been struggling with what to purchase next. I'm on a Note 4.
I can't offer any help, but I'd suggest you make the same post in the Samsung 7 Edge forum as well.
LuckyColdJohnson said:
Samsung is garbage now. I have never owned an LG product but have always had Sammy devices and an HTC........LG V20 is the best phone I've ever had. Only thing is its not water resistant but who wants to put their phone in water? Not me......You will be happy with the LG.....Sammy is not that great anymore. Plus I've taken 4 or 5 phones back as they have had hardware issues. I use phones hard......LG is doing a great job and under the radar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are water resistant cases for the V20 on Amazon.
LG will always be my favourite
LG any day (G5 or V20) They offer smoother UI than TouchWiz ! Samsung although have same specs as any 2016 flagships do, they lag and slow down over time! Also since "water resistance" phone like S7 Edge is being overrated trend they follow, this causes the S7 Edge loudspeaker behave badly after dunging it in water, the speaker quality comes out worse on any volume. Just look how LG is never copying design language as S7 looks almost an iPhone, how LG is being innovative on their own. I can't wait for the amazing LG G6 which is supposed to launch 1 month earlier than the Galaxy S8 (i'm more interested in G6 rather than S8)
All I can say is that I loved my v10, and then have it to my mom, and she loves it. Now I have a v20 and and love it just even more! Only thing I miss is the rear mounted buttons, but overall an awesome phone! I'll take it over the glued together Sammie's and iPhones all day long!
Sent from my LG-V521 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
As someone suggested above, you should make a similar post in the samsung s7 edge forum. The main reason why I went with the V20 is the removable battery, the Quick Charging 3.0 (aftermarket), USB type-c port, USB 3.0 speed (aftermarket) and flat screen.
esqueue said:
As someone suggested above, you should make a similar post in the samsung s7 edge forum. The main reason why I went with the V20 is the removable battery, the Quick Charging 3.0 (aftermarket), USB type-c port, USB 3.0 speed (aftermarket) and flat screen.
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I'm really tempted to get the V20. But I'm pretty set on getting one with 6GB of RAM. I want to be futureproofed somewhat. I tend to run a LOT of apps, so I need the memory.
I had the S7 Edge before my V20 and although I miss the AMOLED display I am much happier with the V20. The V20 does not lag at all, it is very snappy. The dual lens camera is stunning on the V20, especially the wide angle lens. USB C, out of the box Android N, factory installed screen protector, and a simple and lightweight LG launcher are reasons to choose the V20 IMO.

upgrade to g7?

I have a really good deal on a g7 that I may go forth with and give my perfect condition g6 to my mom. Has anyone upgraded to the g7. Is it worth it even at only $200 for the g7 will I notice a upgrade?
lg3FTW said:
I have a really good deal on a g7 that I may go forth with and give my perfect condition g6 to my mom. Has anyone upgraded to the g7. Is it worth it even at only $200 for the g7 will I notice a upgrade?
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Click to collapse
I think it's a good deal but you probably won't notice much of a difference. I personally wouldn't bother with LG at this point and get something like OnePlus or Pixel.
Notch = yuk.
Matt.
Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk
I wouldn't do that. The G7 has a smaller battery and the notch.
I have been waiting for the G7 to replace my G6, but I couldn't find enough reasons to justify it, so I stayed with my G6. Now I wait for the G8, but it seems that it won't be good enough either. Let's see.
well, it doesnt matter g6 or g7 is way to close generation and didnt see many improvements, one phone you should see is LG V30/V35/V30S, thats a major improvement over G6 and better than G7, not the SoC but you have more features and a better camera, and V30 variants are also cheap those days.
sun_is_shinning said:
well, it doesnt matter g6 or g7 is way to close generation and didnt see many improvements, one phone you should see is LG V30/V35/V30S, thats a major improvement over G6 and better than G7, not the SoC but you have more features and a better camera, and V30 variants are also cheap those days.
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I owed and sold the v30 I like the speed. It didn't like the screen size too wide for me for everyday use. I truly like my g6 but at times it's slow. And the g7 has the better processor along with a better selfie cam. (More for me and my fiance) I never selfie alone. I like the IPS display better to Idk why but I do. The notch can be hidden so that's whatever. Mostly looking at it for a bit more screen size and the boom box sound.
Vatt`ghern said:
I think it's a good deal but you probably won't notice much of a difference. I personally wouldn't bother with LG at this point and get something like OnePlus or Pixel.
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Can't did the single lens camera of the pixel. Yes it's an AMAZING camera but frustrated that they are smart enough to know dual lens is better for the front but not smart enough to carry it over to the back. Also the screen to body ratio in the pixel does not impress I rarely need the stereo speakers so the standard pixel is out and the XL is too large for my liking with one hand usage. Fast and AMAZING as the 6T is the price all at once scares me off. Lol I'm in Verizon and I know the 6T will work with it but at $600 and no certified IP rating I can't do it. I work outside and I'm always at the beach or hiking near water so I don't want to worry about it. I know the makers at ONE+ stated that "it is water resistant as much as any other device nowadays" but they don't pay for the IP rating certification so that they don't have to raise the price of the phone and I get that but still that means they don't have to warranty it from any water or moisture damage either. Along with the lack of Qi charging which I use at work and my night stand at home. I know it's gpt days charge or whatever they call it but still the convenience of QI is just something I'd not want to give up just yet.
Melissakis said:
I wouldn't do that. The G7 has a smaller battery and the notch.
I have been waiting for the G7 to replace my G6, but I couldn't find enough reasons to justify it, so I stayed with my G6. Now I wait for the G8, but it seems that it won't be good enough either. Let's see.
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Smaller battery with better battery managing processor so it's a trade off I feel. Also the g8 is going to be a let down unless they really make it some thing to stand out. I've seen the leaks and as of right now they did not. I'd go with v40 or v50 IF they'd attach a stylus. They need a flagship with stylus IMO. The stylo 4 is a GREAT mid range phone but I'm on Verizon and wouldn't be able to use it let alone sacrifice camera quality and over all device speed just for a stylus

Any known/unsolvable issues with V20?

As a photographer I'm deeply in love with my Lg G5. It's cameras were and still are the best in class, adding GoogleCam makes them even better. Unfortunately I reached the point where the bloody GPS issues force me to move on. Since V20 shares exactly the same cameras as G5, I'd rather get a used V20 than go with G6/V30 or later.
Looks like H990DS or N are supposed to be the best for UK, however I've seen complains about bad reception.
Is this a known issue? Are all H990DS affected?
Are there any issues with GPS with this or other variants?
Any other issues I should be aware off?
Thanks
Alex
You should root your phone to remove screen retention. It's really really annoying. But with root no prob to solve this issue. For me no more issues. the cam on the back is very fragile so cover it with a 9H displayglass for 2 Euro from Aliexpress or so. But even if you're not doing it. It's super easy to replace. In general the V20 is a beast if it's about physical durability. You can almost replace anything with a few screws.
Jogg3r said:
You should root your phone to remove screen retention. It's really really annoying. But with root no prob to solve this issue. For me no more issues. the cam on the back is very fragile so cover it with a 9H displayglass for 2 Euro from Aliexpress or so. But even if you're not doing it. It's super easy to replace. In general the V20 is a beast if it's about physical durability. You can almost replace anything with a few screws.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I guess you've never tried to fix the LG G5 GPS if you think that these are serious issues. :laugh:
I can't root since the phone will be blocked by my corporate IT, plus I suspect Google Pay/Credit card apps to stop working too. Hope the retention is not worse than on G5.
Just did more research, looks like the main cameras on G5 and V20 are different... It's 4x3 now, pretty much aligned with what the rest of the world decided to go with! Well, at least the wide-angle lens which I use most of the time still seems to be the same.
The issue I've had is screen burn-in... and it's not really so bad, usually not noticeable.

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