Hey guys,
I know a lot of people with this phone are happy with the frame rate of videos in good light (30 fps constant). But one thing that really does my head in is the shocking frame rate in low light (like indoors).
Well fear not chums, supremebeaver is here to put your fears to rest
Steps:
- Open camera (not camcorder) app. Set ISO to 800
- Open Camcorder app, set Exposure to -2.
- Notice improved frame rate in viewfinder.
- Smile
I will admit, the quality suffers a little. The video gets a lot darker but imo its a good compromise for smoothness. At least for me. I was able to go from 9 fps with stock settings to 25 solid with those settings changed.
Enjoy
if you want to know why this works, heres how:
at 30 Frames Per Second, each frame of video has a minimum exposure time of 1 thirtyith of a second, or 1/30 seconds.
in low light this is does not give the camera enough time to gather light to expose an image, so it slows the exposure time down, saaaay, 1 fifteenth. this reduces the frame rate to 15fps. this gives the camera twice as long to expose an image.
by changing the exposure to -2 you are telling the camera not to increase the exposure time and so you end up with a darker image but better frame rate.
this is not something that can be magically fixed by a firmware update, its simple photographic physics.
the only thing a firmware fix will do is turn the default ISO up.
rossysaurus said:
if you want to know why this works, heres how:
at 30 Frames Per Second, each frame of video has a minimum exposure time of 1 thirtyith of a second, or 1/30 seconds.
in low light this is does not give the camera enough time to gather light to expose an image, so it slows the exposure time down, saaaay, 1 fifteenth. this reduces the frame rate to 15fps. this gives the camera twice as long to expose an image.
by changing the exposure to -2 you are telling the camera not to increase the exposure time and so you end up with a darker image but better frame rate.
this is not something that can be magically fixed by a firmware update, its simple photographic physics.
the only thing a firmware fix will do is turn the default ISO up.
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but why is the cam on htc hd7 have faster fps than hd2 when they got the same specs? hd7 has WP7 and hd2 has WP 6.5. is it the o/s?
The HD7 has the same chipset as us, the HD2 has the last generation of snapdragon (the same one as the classic desire).
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
Consider using the built-in flash to compensate for that darker image issue
it would be nice if we had a brightness setting, like LG camera does. There, you can also boost ISO to 1250.
mdalacu said:
it would be nice if we had a brightness setting, like LG camera does. There, you can also boost ISO to 1250.
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but the noise will be too high.. like on the iphone 4, they raise the ISO so high to maintain framerate but all u get is a super grainy video that looks rubbish.
Technology for phone cams still has a long way to go...
Loving this phone so far except for one thing. When recording in low-light, there is a significant decrease of fps.
I realize that the 28mm f/2.0 lens is the best out there so why would HTC pair it with such a crippling software feature???
I'd rather have the software crank up the ISO or lose a little exposure to keep the video at a steady 30 or 24 fps instead of the stuttering/lag effect.
Some of my videos in low-light areas are averaging 20/fps.
Do any of you know if HTC usually updates the camera software or if an outside dev would come out with a camera hack allowing us to lock the framerate?
Zexell said:
Loving this phone so far except for one thing. When recording in low-light, there is a significant decrease of fps.
I realize that the 28mm f/2.0 lens is the best out there so why would HTC pair it with such a crippling software feature???
I'd rather have the software crank up the ISO or lose a little exposure to keep the video at a steady 30 or 24 fps instead of the stuttering/lag effect.
Some of my videos in low-light areas are averaging 20/fps.
Do any of you know if HTC usually updates the camera software or if an outside dev would come out with a camera hack allowing us to lock the framerate?
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alot of expensive video cameras will do this also.
it has to slow the shutter speed to let in more light. otherwise if you increased the shutter speed you wont see anything. i guess they could add a shutter speed control to let you increase that and ramp up the ISO.
simba2585 said:
alot of expensive video cameras will do this also.
it has to slow the shutter speed to let in more light.
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Shutter speed is for pictures, lol. I am talking about frame rates for videos.
I am more than happy with the htc one for pictures but for low-light videos, I would love it if I can lock my frame rate at 24 or 30 fps for my entire video.
I would rather have less light/more ISO instead of choppy videos.
I think HTC allows the drop in framerate to keep the ISO the same.
Zexell said:
Shutter speed is for pictures, lol. I am talking about frame rates for videos.
I am more than happy with the htc one for pictures but for low-light videos, I would love it if I can lock my frame rate at 24 or 30 fps for my entire video.
I would rather have less light/more ISO instead of choppy videos.
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Just curious, are you running a 1.29 based firmware?
Zexell said:
Shutter speed is for pictures, lol.
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I've never facepalmed so hard before.
Shutter speed applies for both pictures and videos; with videos, it's the amount of time the sensor (or that particular slide of film, in the 'old days') captures light for a frame in said video.
If it's low light, the video needs to let in more light by increasing the amount of time the sensor captures light for a given frame. Thus increasing the shutter speed.
Now, here's where frame-rate comes into the picture (see what I did there? ;D)...
For example (I'm not using real numbers here, as I don't know what numbers are used for the One, plus maths isn't my strong point. But...) in normal lighting the frame rate is 1/30th of a second, and it's shooting at 30fps. All's well.
However, if it's in 'low light mode', it'll need to lower the shutter speed to 1/20th of a second (again, just example numbers). It'd then need to lower the fps down to 20fps.
TL;DR: pictures and videos both have shutter speed.
Um, I'm sorry OP, can you point to the phone that is currently shooting usable 60fps video in low light?
Maybe in a few years. Right now you just have to deal with the current state of the art instead of complaining that HTC is making crappy decision decisions.
You could probably have 30fps video in low light right now. It will just look very very dark.
I'm guessing if they went that route, you'd complain about that decision too.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda app-developers app
M_Woody said:
I've never facepalmed so hard before.
Shutter speed applies for both pictures and videos; with videos, it's the amount of time the sensor (or that particular slide of film, in the 'old days') captures light for a frame in said video.
If it's low light, the video needs to let in more light by increasing the amount of time the sensor captures light for a given frame. Thus increasing the shutter speed.
Now, here's where frame-rate comes into the picture (see what I did there? ;D)...
For example (I'm not using real numbers here, as I don't know what numbers are used for the One, plus maths isn't my strong point. But...) in normal lighting the frame rate is 1/30th of a second, and it's shooting at 30fps. All's well.
However, if it's in 'low light mode', it'll need to lower the shutter speed to 1/20th of a second (again, just example numbers). It'd then need to lower the fps down to 20fps.
TL;DR: pictures and videos both have shutter speed.
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Gotcha. But the shutter speed isn't always controlled by the fps. On my T2i, I can record at 30fps while leaving my shutter speed at 1/30th or change it to 1/400th while changing the f stop or ISO, which results in crystal clear motion captured. I always believed shutter speed is always independent of framerates. For the HTC one, i would love it if the fps was locked regardless of shutter speed per frame or iso or aperture.
The choppiness really creates unusable footage.
NxNW said:
Um, I'm sorry OP, can you point to the phone that is currently shooting usable 60fps video in low light?
Maybe in a few years. Right now you just have to deal with the current state of the art instead of complaining that HTC is making crappy decision decisions.
You could probably have 30fps video in low light right now. It will just look very very dark.
I'm guessing if they went that route, you'd complain about that decision too.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda app-developers app
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Actually, that's exactly what I am asking for. The option to choose a choppier footage with more light or have 30fps video in low-light at the compensation for darker exposure or more ISO.
Recording at 720p @ 60fps in low-light still results the framerates dropping below 24 which I consider is unusual footage.
I guess I'm the only one feeling like HTC made a poor decision by not locking the fps but when my footage goes from 30 fps to 20 fps in less than 1 second, the footage is really undesirable. They could've easily just raised the ISO or aperture like the s3, lumia 920, or iphone 5 do.
Actually, that's exactly what I am asking the choice for.
So noted.
Raising ISO is a fancy way of saying turning up the gain which will also amplify the noise in the sensors, creating some very grainy video.
That probably wouldn't be very desirable either.
It's all about tradeoffs.
Phones, more than other devices, tend to have a very fluid idea of frame rate. If you need it nailed up at 30 fps no matter what, you're right, this may not be the camera for you.
NxNW said:
So noted.
Raising ISO is a fancy way of saying turning up the gain which will also amplify the noise in the sensors, creating some very grainy video.
That probably wouldn't be very desirable either.
It's all about tradeoffs.
Phones, more than other devices, tend to have a very fluid idea of frame rate. If you need it nailed up at 30 fps no matter what, you're right, this may not be the camera for you.
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Grainy videos can be treated or processed with filters. There is no alternative to frames that are lost.
I didn't mean to go on debates about ISO or shutter speed.
Instead of returning the phone, I was asking the community if they happen to know if HTC updates the drivers for the camera at any point or if someone would develop a camera hack that addresses this loss of frames or the choice.
Zexell said:
Actually, that's exactly what I am asking for. The option to choose a choppier footage with more light or have 30fps video in low-light at the compensation for darker exposure or more ISO.
Recording at 720p @ 60fps in low-light still results the framerates dropping below 24 which I consider is unusual footage.
I guess I'm the only one feeling like HTC made a poor decision by not locking the fps but when my footage goes from 30 fps to 20 fps in less than 1 second, the footage is really undesirable. They could've easily just raised the ISO or aperture like the s3, lumia 920, or iphone 5 do.
Actually, that's exactly what I am asking the choice for.
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What are you recording in such low light anyways? Why not just go get your t2i to record with then...
AndrewAmazed said:
What are you recording in such low light anyways? Why not just go get your t2i to record with then...
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Because the T2i doesnt fit in my pocket, lol.
I had an HTC Evo, and in those days they would drop frames in *good* light. It was extremely frustrating. I bought faster SD card storage, overclocked, switched to performance governor, BFQ scheduler, the works.
I searched high and low for mods that would lock the frame rate. I wasn't the only one searching, gamers are always interested in fps as well.
If that mod was made, I missed it. Maybe it's possible. I'm as curious as you are to see if anyone has info on this. My expectation is no. HTC's camera drivers are closed source and seem to defy this kind of hacking.
Anyway, now you see why, coming from older technology, I'm so grateful for the excellent low light video the One *does* have. ; )
Sent from my PC36100 using xda app-developers app
OP, you aren't the only one who feels the fps in low light video recording drops too low. I'm also annoyed by it. Furthermore I know higher fps is possible because if you record in HDR mode the fps are higher in the same lighting situation. I believe this is because it cranks up the ISO/gain in order to get double the fps or more since it needs high and low exposure frames to combine together behind the scenes. Try HDR mode and see if you get better fps. Downside is it is definitely noisier in low light, can have higher filesizes, and also the sides of picture are significantly cropped to leave some room for electronic image combination/stabilization during the HDR processing.
One other trick you can try is setting the exposure lower, this seems to result in faster shutter speeds/higher fps.
So yes I also wish the ISO and/or fps would be more controllable in the varios video recording modes. I tried some of the other special modes and no luck. Also I wish there was an infinite focus lock, so far I can't find that either. Seems like such a basic feature missing?
You will get a laggy video in a low-light scenario even you managed to lock the fps. Because the device dose need more time for capturing more light in one frame.
So,smoother = darker.Vice-versa.
FPS drop is not acceptable. My 4S can shoot in low light without any drops...so I'm pretty sure it's a software problem that can be fixed by HTC.
QuantifyThis said:
OP, you aren't the only one who feels the fps in low light video recording drops too low. I'm also annoyed by it. Furthermore I know higher fps is possible because if you record in HDR mode the fps are higher in the same lighting situation. I believe this is because it cranks up the ISO/gain in order to get double the fps or more since it needs high and low exposure frames to combine together behind the scenes. Try HDR mode and see if you get better fps. Downside is it is definitely noisier in low light, can have higher filesizes, and also the sides of picture are significantly cropped to leave some room for electronic image combination/stabilization during the HDR processing.
One other trick you can try is setting the exposure lower, this seems to result in faster shutter speeds/higher fps.
So yes I also wish the ISO and/or fps would be more controllable in the varios video recording modes. I tried some of the other special modes and no luck. Also I wish there was an infinite focus lock, so far I can't find that either. Seems like such a basic feature missing?
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I did some more testing. ISO and exposure settings only seem to effect pictures. When it comes to recording videos, we only get one set of options (slow mo, 720 @ 60fps, and HDR). I recorded a bunch of similar situation videos with various ISO and exposures and while it does change on screen, the moment you press the record video, it reverts back to all auto except for the 1 set of options reserved for video recording.
Various ISO/Exposure settings resulted in most videos looking similar and averaged from 20-22 fps. The one I recorded at 720 @ 60 was unwatchable at an average 15 fps. The HDR was well lit and had a tremendous amount of noise yet averaged 17 fps.
For comparison, I recorded the same situation with my iphone 5 on auto and my galaxy s3 on night setting. The iphone 5 had a little more noise than the HTC, exposure was slightly darker than the HTC, but was the video was fluid and yielded an average of 25 fps. GS3 @ Night setting had less noise than the iphone, visibility was darker but the video was smooth at 27 fps.
My conclusion is that both apple and samsung have coded in their recording software to NEVER dip below 24 fps while HTC allows the camera software go as low as 15 frames per second.
In a world where the iphone 5 and HTC one share the same camera technology and share the same lens, this would make sense. But in this world, the HTC has a far superior lens. A wide angle 28mm with OIS at f stop of 2.0 definitely has power to deliver better results against lesser lenses.
I truly hope that somebody or even HTC can unleash the lens to its full capabilities.
M_Woody said:
I've never facepalmed so hard before.
Shutter speed applies for both pictures and videos; with videos, it's the amount of time the sensor (or that particular slide of film, in the 'old days') captures light for a frame in said video.
If it's low light, the video needs to let in more light by increasing the amount of time the sensor captures light for a given frame. Thus increasing the shutter speed.
Now, here's where frame-rate comes into the picture (see what I did there? ;D)...
For example (I'm not using real numbers here, as I don't know what numbers are used for the One, plus maths isn't my strong point. But...) in normal lighting the frame rate is 1/30th of a second, and it's shooting at 30fps. All's well.
However, if it's in 'low light mode', it'll need to lower the shutter speed to 1/20th of a second (again, just example numbers). It'd then need to lower the fps down to 20fps.
TL;DR: pictures and videos both have shutter speed.
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Click to collapse
spot on, thanks for explaining this to the OP. i didnt want to start a discussion about it so thanks.
Completely agree that they need to tweak the vid recording modes to increase fps. Regarding the exposure "working", I have found using a 3rd party recording app (in this case, the dashcam software VideoRegPro) it has exposure settings that do work, and not just in the preview. The upside of cranking down the exposure all the way is you get a much darker picture, but this can somewhat be fixed by also cranking down the contrast setting. You end up with a very flat looking image with not enough color, and also get some blueish noise in black areas. Still hoping a future HTC update improves the low light FPS, at least in one or two of the special video modes. And also hoping for a working infinite focus (useful for a dashcam).
I have a note 3 sm n900.
But in my camera if the turn image smart stabilisation off the photos sre taken are very fast but they start cracking if i zoom in.. if i take a pic of a book or something the words arent very clear,i even tried keeping my hands very steady while taking the photos.
On the other hand enbablimg smart stabilisation, camera takes around one second to take a photo and the photos arr very clear.
This shouldnt be happening, right?
Whats the point of having smart stabilisation off if the photos look like taken from a 2MP shooter.
Please help.
Please reply.
I have been hurt by the community as my last problems didnt even get a reply.
Sent from my SM-N900 using XDA Free mobile app
begimaad said:
I have a note 3 sm n900.
But in my camera if the turn image smart stabilisation off the photos sre taken are very fast but they start cracking if i zoom in.. if i take a pic of a book or something the words arent very clear,i even tried keeping my hands very steady while taking the photos.
On the other hand enbablimg smart stabilisation, camera takes around one second to take a photo and the photos arr very clear.
This shouldnt be happening, right?
Whats the point of having smart stabilisation off if the photos look like taken from a 2MP shooter.
Please help.
Please reply.
I have been hurt by the community as my last problems didnt even get a reply.
Sent from my SM-N900 using XDA Free mobile app
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Are you aware of how camera sensors work?
Smart stabilization is meant to offset the use of higher ISOs/lower shutter speeds so that your pictures turn out less noisy. Given that the Note 3's max aperture is f/2.2, let's make an example.
In the daylight, your ISO can drop and thus picture quality can improve (this is very barebones, but it's for conceptual purpose). In essence, higher ISO = more noise, especially the smaller the sensor size. You can visibly see that the Note 3 has a very small sensor. In fact, even on APS-C cameras, noise performances starts to suck around ISO 3200~6400. ISO is meant to make each pixel brighter (or something to that effect), and the smaller those pixels are, the more noise you'll generate (again, not exactly, but that's the gist of what you're experiencing). So, with 13 megapixels fit onto the small sensor, you're likely going to start seeing noise at like, ISO800 (this is a random guess, but it's probably true).
Anyways, so during the daytime, there is a lot of available light, so the ISO can be reduced and exposure can be adjusted using shutter speed (assuming aperture stays the same). This improves picture quality as lower ISOs generally equate to less noise. However, as you get later into the night, less available light means that one of two things has to happen. Either your shutter speed gets slower to let in more light, or your ISO cranks up to become more sensitive to the available light (and thus more noise). Usually a combination of the two occur to get a trade off between quality and shutter speed.
A quick browse on google gave me, 1/15, f2.2, ISO 1000, as EXIF data from an iPhone 5s taking a picture at night. As you can see, the ISO is pretty high for the small sensor, and the shutter speed is quite low. As a rule of thumb, you generally want at least an equivalent shutter speed to the focal length, but given the crop factor of this lens, I have no idea what that'd actually be. But 1/15th is very, very hard to hold without some form of IS/OS, even on full-frame cameras. What you're experiencing is this effect. The low shutter speed to let in more light means that even if you breath and shift the camera 1cm, you'll get blur. It's not out of focus, but the subjects weren't in the same place because you moved, causing them to be rendered in shift. The noise is the result of the ISO being too high; the pixel sensitivity isn't that great, and so you're getting all kinds of weird colours that the phone is trying to represent without definitive data. Again, we're assuming that the aperture stays wide open under these conditions to let in the most light.
I hope you got the answer you were looking for. Basically, what you want is pretty hard to do, even with a full-framed DSLR (although it's becoming less true with recent image processing). You can't really turn of IS/OS and expect the pictures to be great. There's a lot of other things that are taken into account behind the scenes that are usually beyond your control on your phone. Smart stabilization using image processing algorithms to help mitigate the impact of higher ISOs and lower shutter speeds by post-processing the images you take on the fly. Such is the cause of the delay.
What version you're running , do you try to use any third-party camera app results may vary , did you increase exposure value, try to reser all camera setting to default
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
msasm09 said:
What version you're running , do you try to use any third-party camera app results may vary , did you increase exposure value, try to reser all camera setting to default
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
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Got it sorted out. In not so bright conditions the pictures start breaking and by turning on smart stabilisation it gets fixed. Credit goes to the last persom who explained. Best explanation ever. Hats off to u
Sent from my SM-N900 using XDA Free mobile app
I didn't find any similar threads on this issue, so I thought I'd start this one myself. I've noticed that when I'm indoors and the light is dim as soon as I launch the stock camera the image looks as clear and lit as it looks through my eyes and if I take a picture in Auto mode, well the picture just the same as it should but I soon as I jump into video recording somehow it all looks pretty dark, and I have no settings for this or at least I haven't found anything I may have changed to have this effect, it looks so dark I actually have to use the flashlight and even then it still looks quite dark.
The S7 edge does not have night vision, but rather it can take photographs in LOW light conditions. The brighter F1.7 lens and bigger 1.4µm pixels on the picture sensor catch however much light as could reasonably be expected to make the photographs turn out sharp and clear.
The camera does not work and in addition appeared in the promotion of its low light performace. That is only their marketing strategy.
So it can only take pictures in low light conditions? Not videos?
The longer the speed shutter, the more light camera gather.
Video recording have speed shutter limit because it need to capture continuous image and form a video. So 30fps video have the longest speed shutter per frame of 1/30 sec. 60fps video = 1/60 sec. And slow motion(240fps) = 1/240 sec.
While taking photo you don't have as much limit. In auto ,camera can have the speed shutter as long as 1/4 sec. In manual mode you can have the speed shutter as long as 10 second.
Ah i see
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NonXtreme said:
The longer the speed shutter, the more light camera gather.
Video recording have speed shutter limit because it need to capture continuous image and form a video. So 30fps video have the longest speed shutter per frame of 1/30 sec. 60fps video = 1/60 sec. And slow motion(240fps) = 1/240 sec.
While taking photo you don't have as much limit. In auto ,camera can have the speed shutter as long as 1/4 sec. In manual mode you can have the speed shutter as long as 10 second.
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Would tweaking some settings in Pro mode help out?
Hi guys and girls
Am I only getting worse shots and video in low light after 2 last official updates?
(Camera glass is clean, using stock camera app as before)
I the same issue
I think it has somthing with the battery saving you have turned on. Anyway, you can change this at the time you are previewing a recorded video, and pressing on the lefd side of the screen. Then you will see a slide bar to adjust the back ground light. If you pull this up, you'll your videos much brighter. But this change is somhow effecting thephone general background light, so all your phone will become brighter, and the battery will last shorter.
I also have some suspection that somthing went wrong at the last update Samsung has delivered, as I feel as well there is some downgrade of the video looks. I think that the video backlight shouldn't effect the phone screen backlight as a hole. Maybe some in Samsung has wrongly linked this both settings into one, so when you are ising a battery saver function, the video playing is reducing its background light as well. I haven't notice these issues before last update.
Yah..Same thing happening on my s7 edge too!!!After the latest update...They might give bug fixed update soon:good:
I've tested this for a while and transferred video onto my laptop and see just as on my phone that the 60fps setting video is DARKER. Why is it doing this? Does anyone else see this? I can see through the viewfinder that it turns darker switching to 60fps. What's up with this?
Since 60fps requires 60 exposures per second of the camera sensor instead of 30 there is half as much light hitting the sensor per exposure. This means you can either get a darker image or a more grainy image with a boosted ISO.
StykerB said:
Since 60fps requires 60 exposures per second of the camera sensor instead of 30 there is half as much light hitting the sensor per exposure. This means you can either get a darker image or a more grainy image with a boosted ISO.
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Oh, shoot. So the sensor they put in this 6T is just crappy? I'm trying to figure this out because on my Note 9 recording in 60fps in the same exact room where I tested the 6T within the same hour I compared the videos and the N9 shot clean and bright video. So it's just the 6T camera not being great is the problem?
roaduardo said:
Oh, shoot. So the sensor they put in this 6T is just crappy? I'm trying to figure this out because on my Note 9 recording in 60fps in the same exact room where I tested the 6T within the same hour I compared the videos and the N9 shot clean and bright video. So it's just the 6T camera not being great is the problem?
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probably the sensor of a oneplus is worse, but that isn't the reason, probably Samsung doesnt take advantage of the higher time between frames to capture more light in 30fps mode