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About a week ago, I sent an email to all the HTC brass inquiring about the 30FPS cap that most of us are familiar with. An hour later, I received a "canned response", from one of their customer service reps assuring me that this was done "on purpose" to maximize battery life as well as enhance the user experience.
Story short, Keith Nowak, presumably a high ranking HTC exec, sent me back an email with a lengthy explanation of why the cap was in place. I was originally going to write a story about it for the blog I work for, however, it just doesn't seem worth it now since the information he's given me is basically the same thing that some of us have speculated. Interestingly enough however, he did retract the battery saving and user experience comments that I was first given.
Anyways, check it out:
Hi Adam-
My apologies for the delay in responding, we were investigating this issue, and I wanted to be sure I understood all of the facts before I responded.
Regarding the 30 FPS limitation on the HTC EVO 4G. This is simply a limitation of the hardware used in the device. The HDMI output that delivers HD content is, as you would expect, very resource intense, and as such, puts a limit on the output that can be used for the main display. However, even though there is a 30 FPS limitation, this is roughly equivalent to what most video content (TV and movies) is filmed in (24-30 FPS), meaning that in the vast majority of cases, this is not going to pose any issues for end users.
We have seen reports of a hack that purports to “fix” this, but after investigation, it turns out that this hack is simply allowing data to be pushed through the display interface at a higher speed than it can reasonably handle – resulting in, as you would expect, a choppy, unacceptable image of very poor quality.
I am not sure where information regarding “enhancing the user experience” or “maximize battery life” – but if it came from HTC, please let me know, and we will address the issue, as this is not correct information.
Best-
Keith Nowak
HTC
infamousjax said:
Hi Adam-
My apologies for the delay in responding, we were investigating this issue, and I wanted to be sure I understood all of the facts before I responded.
Regarding the 30 FPS limitation on the HTC EVO 4G. This is simply a limitation of the hardware used in the device. The HDMI output that delivers HD content is, as you would expect, very resource intense, and as such, puts a limit on the output that can be used for the main display. However, even though there is a 30 FPS limitation, this is roughly equivalent to what most video content (TV and movies) is filmed in (24-30 FPS), meaning that in the vast majority of cases, this is not going to pose any issues for end users.
We have seen reports of a hack that purports to “fix” this, but after investigation, it turns out that this hack is simply allowing data to be pushed through the display interface at a higher speed than it can reasonably handle – resulting in, as you would expect, a choppy, unacceptable image of very poor quality.
I am not sure where information regarding “enhancing the user experience” or “maximize battery life” – but if it came from HTC, please let me know, and we will address the issue, as this is not correct information.
Best-
Keith Nowak
HTC
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That is a downright lie. It is something he is simple overemphasizing about vsync issues with the Epson panel, which will be fixed because the devs here are hard at work.
Sure, it is a dirty hack, but the current method works fine. Completely, smooth and superb 'image quality,' and it makes it LESS choppy.
Hmm, they should just release all their sorce code so the devs here can tear it apart.
..yeahhh..i'm not one to be quick to call bs, but come on! I'm running ffolkes Novatek kernel on Fresh 0.5.3 and again, maybe it is just some "hack"..but bottom line is the difference is night and day! The response time is outta this world!
Sounds to me like he has no tech background, and that response was something that he was told to say. I wouldn't imagine at his position he would know the insides of phones and how they work or can be manipulated.
OP, you should reply back asking why use/waste all the resources on a feature that won't be used on a daily basis (maybe once or twice a month, if at all).
OP, if you do reply back. Consider including a link to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAjTo602sQM
That is nothing but improvement in display quality right there.
Video is from this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=713311
infamousjax said:
We have seen reports of a hack that purports to “fix” this, but after investigation, it turns out that this hack is simply allowing data to be pushed through the display interface at a higher speed than it can reasonably handle – resulting in, as you would expect, a choppy, unacceptable image of very poor quality.
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Bull****. I made the video proving it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAjTo602sQM
Tell Keith to salvage his credibility he needs to produce an honest answer. Ask him if he wants to see my run Youtube, or an mp4 video, or anything else, to drop me a line. I'll be happy to continue demonstrating how wrong he is.
The topic on HTC's forum is on page 10. Let's make sure it stays on the front page so support realizes it's a huge customer issue.
http://community.htc.com/na/htc-forums/android/f/94/t/3186.aspx
c'mon, lets not start grilling and roasting htc execs. These people are trying to help us and have been very informative on assisting us with this NEW device.
chances are, like said above, he probably forwarded the email directly to the engineering department (probably to someone we cant directly connect with) and got this answer.
i say, to knock it off with all the pushing and shoving of the FPS issue, and lets not end up on their bad side. Theyve been doing a great job so far. If the devs simplify and figure out a better way for us to maximize FPS, then so be it... Its not worth calling people liars and dishonesty.
This makes me sad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilx_cpGZczM
TorxT3D said:
c'mon, lets not start grilling and roasting htc execs. These people are trying to help us and have been very informative on assisting us with this NEW device.
chances are, like said above, he probably forwarded the email directly to the engineering department (probably to someone we cant directly connect with) and got this answer.
i say, to knock it off with all the pushing and shoving of the FPS issue, and lets not end up on their bad side. Theyve been doing a great job so far. If the devs simplify and figure out a better way for us to maximize FPS, then so be it... Its not worth calling people liars and dishonesty.
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Really? Are you being serious? They are trying to help us, how? First, according to them, they are tying up all the resources due to HDMI, which may be a great feature, but is not going to be used by many at all. Second, yeah, they have been doing a great job so far, RIGHT. I guess that's why the Evo had the light leaks, screen separations, other issues as well with the phone so far like bad wifi signal and poor battery.
If they really want to help, they would have released the source code already.
KERKEDAGAIN said:
..yeahhh..i'm not one to be quick to call bs, but come on! I'm running ffolkes Novatek kernel on Fresh 0.5.3 and again, maybe it is just some "hack"..but bottom line is the difference is night and day! The response time is outta this world!
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Click to collapse
where can i get this "hacked" kernel from and will it kill the camera ?
The last HTC rep I spoke to has assured me that they're working on a fix for the 30FPS cap.
TorxT3D said:
c'mon, lets not start grilling and roasting htc execs. These people are trying to help us and have been very informative on assisting us with this NEW device.
chances are, like said above, he probably forwarded the email directly to the engineering department (probably to someone we cant directly connect with) and got this answer.
i say, to knock it off with all the pushing and shoving of the FPS issue, and lets not end up on their bad side. Theyve been doing a great job so far. If the devs simplify and figure out a better way for us to maximize FPS, then so be it... Its not worth calling people liars and dishonesty.
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+1
I am all for better FPS - but even with 30 fps can you honestly tell me you can tell the gears moving better? I can't tell. I have tried both. I went back to another ROM and its not enabled. I can't tell. I get smooth movement. I am not overclocked and my quadrant on 2.1 with no JIT, etc. is around 590.
I get 30fps on gears and 25.1FPS on NeoCore but without seeing those numbers I could not tell the difference between the two in regards to better frames. I have ran both. The only difference for me is the Froyo 2.2 EVOA which is smoother in screen transitions and can multi-task much better in regards to updating and installing severals apps at a time. Otherwise video has yet to create a margin that is noticeable to me.
It has nothing to do with gears moving faster and if you had applied the 30 fps breaking kernel you would see that everything in the os is snappier including scrolling, touch lag etc..
you could just try to play a simple game like doodle jump and you'll notice the difference immediately
jblazea50 said:
you could just try to play a simple game like doodle jump and you'll notice the difference immediately
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Works just fine on the new OTA...
jblazea50 said:
If they really want to help, they would have released the source code already.
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Seriously. We need to just stop asking for a 30FPS cap fix and just keep asking for the source code because honestly, with the source code the devs could just fix most, if not all of this crap already.
jblazea50 said:
you could just try to play a simple game like doodle jump and you'll notice the difference immediately
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I do - I enjoy that game for a while now. I have it loaded on every ROM along with Robo Defense.
What is the BIG difference?
I notice little things about everything so when improvement is made I make comments. But there hasn't been much improvement in that area.
The camera much snappier and the pictures are much better in daylight. I took some great pictures to test at High Resolution and I am impressed with the camera. Before it was just so-so but now some of the pictures of the same images are greatly improved upon for sharpness and color saturation.
See so I do notice differences - perhaps not in the FPS but in other things
I bought a g tablet. I feel close to it given I put in more than 30 hours going through different beta versions of alternate roms trying to get things the way they should be since out of the box it was a piece of crap. Being in canada I had driven to nearest Sears in US to Purchase it. Before the screen calibration fix I had essentially given up the inability to type properly and the horrible viewing angles and Sd card woes had me looking elsewhere.
Having tried the more expensive Galaxy Tab and finding it laggy and flash video unviewble, I decided I needed a Tegra based device. I also felt for my needs 7 inches might be better as I find typing in landscape mode hard with a 10 incher(hmm weird genital reference there LOL). I also feel that for my needs (book reading, surfing video watching, the odd game, and quick reference use) that the smaller form fact might be better given it is lighter and more portable (can fit in coat pocket....)
Heard about the ELocity and saw it available for 100$ less than what ipaid for g tab. so ordered it to my Brother's in Florida as will be there next week. It is already there waiting for me.
Of course since ordering it not having given the g tab back yet I have it working the way I want minus the screen viewing angles which I hate as I cant type on it when lounging unless holding it awkwardly in landscape mode using my thumbs.
Seems the Elocity has much better screen in terms of viewing angles.While lower res, the DPI is in fact the same and conforms to the Android OS max resolution of 800x480 so I suspect most apps will look correct on it. It also appears to come rooted out of the box. The UI layer on it is fast and responsive and flash is there to start. So for those considering a g tablet and don't want to muck around it works much better out of the box.
Seems it is not perfect yet and suffers many of the same issues the G tablet did:
Like the gtablet there is no official android market
Wifi for some seems to not wake up with the device from sleep
Angry birds won't run
All of the above from what I have read seem to be related to drivers and tegra 2 not having the best or newest ones out of the box.
Elocity says a fix is coming on december 24th (wonder if this is similar to what was done by Roebeet et al. with TNT light and Vega N with the performance upgrades form experimental diver pack)
Multitouch which is supposed to be 1+1 (which I believe is what the gtab is) doesn't seem to be enabled properly and is only emulated in software, and as of yet, not very well.
Seems from some things discovered on a different thread that this might be a 2 point multitouch after all.
For some reason there is no Elocity forum yet which I think could impede people coming on and helping development on it (Notion Ink Adam has a forum though there is no device in the wild for another month at least). I suspect given these are both Tegra 2 devices that there might be some parallel things to help.
for more info and possible help either for you to give or get the biggest thread going is:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=872299
One professional view just out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CvY8jzyCWI
One XDA member first look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6foXW1zizM
gtablet Adobe Flash update
Greetings, this may be something and may be nothing.
Just FYI –
I talked to Mike at Viewsonic support on 20101220 3:34p PST.
He advises that Staples had an in store warranty conflict and no manufacturing defect exists with the gtablet. The update scheduled for 20101219 is posted and done so in such a way that some folks see it auto-download with WIFI and some will not for approx 24 to 48 hours.
Mike also advises that the Adobe Flash update IS NOT part of the latest update however he says it is still in the works and will be updated soon.
I am still contemplating whether to return mine or not. I have had it for 27 days and it has been absolutely fabulous and beyond my expectations less the FLASH player.
I need INPUT INPUT INPUT.
Thanks - feel free to email me –
[email protected]
//ji
Can't wait
I rooted my wife's HTC Desire since it took forever for Froyo. My phone is a WinMo 6.1 HTC Touch Pro. Love it, but Android is much more user friendly.
I am anti-"any product that starts with lower case i" and I'm looking for a good tab. If the patch comes out on the 24th as promised, I'm ready to pull the trigger.
The price is just right IMHO for this tab. However, depending how dev on this tab progresses after the new update, I may wait to see what's coming at CES.
Unfortunately for my wallet, I'm an instant gratification kind of guy. I can't build my $1600 gaming rig just yet, but this just might tide me over. I'm so tired of my netbook for menial tasks. Video playback sucks.
So... who else is stoked about the A7?
Post Firmware Update
Just ordered my from J&R Music. They had it for 299.99. Once I saw the performance increase with the new update, as well as some tweaks from our freinds at XDA, it was a done deal.
Ordered an 16 Micro SD with it, and I couldn't be more excited. I just sold my netbook, and this will its replacement. The netbook was great for light surfing, Skype, and email. It chugged at everthing else. Intel's GMA graphics on netbooks just suck! Here comes nVidia!
elocity
I just ordered from shopnbc. I used the flexpay option as this option is more pocket friendly for me at the moment. I'm returning my nook color because tomorrow marks the 14th day and won't be returnable after 15 days. The video presentation on that site played angry birds, video and flash on a website without issues. I can't wait till it gets here!
HELP
I know this is a dumb question but how can i get google market on my ELOCITY A7.
Thanks for any HELP/answers.
camaroone.
camaroone said:
I know this is a dumb question but how can i get google market on my ELOCITY A7.
Thanks for any HELP/answers.
camaroone.
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I took a hit for the team... I modded my eLocity to the newest modware; eLocityMod 1.4.1. Now all my downloaded games, and apps work PERFECT. I now have the Google Market as well as the Amazon AppStore. Angry Birds RIO works like a dream ! The only problem I am having with the new Mod is that I can not hot swap USB drives. I got to boot up the device with the USB thumb drive already inserted so that the eLocity will recognize it.
Nvidia's first in-house android device is due out Q2 of this year (it seems they are aiming for a June release date) - and I am a bit surprised by the lack of conversation going on here at XDA about this device!
Why are (or aren't) you getting a Project Shield? Right now everyone is only able to speculate on price and exact availability, but as it draws closer to June we are sure to get loads of more information.
I'll go first!
I will be ordering one as soon as they become available. This is exactly the device I have been waiting for, for several reasons.
First, I have always never enjoyed on-screen joysticks/buttons as a control for touch-based games. It seems like a backwards way to do it. This eliminates that issue and will make me actually purchase some of these neat Android games.
Secondly, I am a PC gamer at heart, and the one thing I have always been jealous of the XBOX/PS3 guys is that they can lay back on the couch when they get home from work and relax while playing their favorite games. I already use a controller with a bunch of games on my PC (exclusing FPS and Strategy), so this seems like a natural fit for me! As well, once Nvidia gets the streaming to TV working, I can leave my big PC rig in my office while still being able to play my games on the nice HDTV in the living room, using this as the controller. I could not ask for it to be easier, especially with Steam's lovely new Big Picture mode.
Lastly...emulators. Lots and lots of emulators. Nvidia's Tegra 4 seems to be one powerful chip, certainly powerful enough to run all of the emulators on the play store. This will be perfect for SNES/NES/PSX/N64 emulation on my tv..
I'm interested to hear your guy's opinions! Hopefully we can bring some life to this board over the coming months.
Basically you gave every reason i will also purchase one
Can't wait ehehe
I think the Nvidia Shield is a very good idea, as long as you fit within it’s very, very narrow niche targets. Most people won’t, which is why I think it will sell in low numbers despite being some decent hardware. I think I will be buying one though. I’ll explain.
I fit into one of the very few practical uses for this device. I have a high-end (for now) gaming PC with a GTX670 installed. This gaming PC is in my front room, behind my TV. It is there because my PC room became a nursery when I became a dad in 2011. There is no other room in my stupid tiny house for a PC desk. It has to be behind the TV.
To compound matters, I foolishly went and signed up for TiVo. (Freeview reception is woeful in my area). Now my wife has a hard drive chock full of hour after hour of mindless tat (I hate TV. 99% of it bores me silly) which I end up having to watch most nights. It’s driving me mad. I’m frequently sat there just waiting for her to p*ss off to bed so I can start my evening and bleed off the frustration built up from watching 4 hours of sh*te. This is typically around 11pm, by which time, any of my friends on Steam have also gone to bed.
(Apparently this TV consists of “quality time together” in her mind. When I asked her if she would like watching 4 hours of gaming each night and have to wait until 11pm so she could watch her recordings, she thinks this would be unfair and selfish. But I never have to raise a finger around the house and she brings me cold beer so it’s swings and roundabouts I suppose.)
When I read about Shield it seemed to answer the problem. I would be able to sit on the sofa, next to my wife, (quality time) and play on my PC titles whilst she absorbs hours of Celebrity Pets On Ice Makeover Factor. Whilst I am a little unconvinced that I’ll be able to play games like Planetside 2 on a 5” screen, at least I will have the option to play smaller scale stuff like Skyrim or Sim City. Games I can easily pause when she has something to say!
As I already have a nice setup for my keyboard and mouse and headset already able to reach my sofa, all I really needed was the small, portable screen. I thought I could make my own solution for a lot less than the Shield is likely to cost, and get a slightly larger screen. I was wrong. All small 7” to 10” screens were unsuitable for one or all of the following reasons;
1. USB input only, meaning my CPU would be driving the display, not my GPU. Also possible latency issues depending on drivers.
2. Awful resolution. They can all support up to 1080p inputs, but natively they are rarely above 480.
3. Terrible response times. They seem to be ok for desktop computing or widget monitors, but high speed gaming would be motion-blur city.
4. Cost. The only small, portable, high resolution LCD/LED displays with HDMI input and decent response times were for high-end professional photography DSLR camera rigs, costing around £1200.
Anyone with their own computer desk won’t need an Nvidia Shield. Anyone who wants an Android gaming experience can already do so for £30 with an Android device they already own and a PS3 or Xbox360 controller (http://buy.thegameklip.com/) and won’t need an Nvidia Shield. Anyone who wants the hand-held PC gaming experience and doesn't already have at least GTX650, is looking at a starting cost of an additional £200 on top of the eventual cost of the Shield. How many people are going to go for that?
If I could have found a separate small screen that would have been up to spec, I wouldn’t be looking at a Shield either. I’ll be amazed if Nvidia shift many of these upon release. If they cost it much above £250 I’m going to have a hard time justifying it myself.
I am looking forward to being able to lie in bed and play Sim City before going to sleep. There are plenty of Android apps (I use Unified Remote) that can remotely shut down/hibernate your PC over network. I suspect the Nvidia Shield (if they’ve though this through) will also have this though.
I am not getting one but I hope it does well... here's why:
I bought a Moga Pro (which has not arrived yet as their free shipping is the slowest domestic service I've ever experienced). With the controller combined with the LGOG (and it's Tegra 4/Snapdragon 800 based replacement this fall), I expect it to match most of the Project Shield functionality.
I own a high end phone (LG OG + 64gb card) and a high end tablet (Nexus 10 32). To the extent I want a 3rd piece of portable electronics, It would need to do something that the LGOG/Nexus 10 can not do or play a game my devices cannot play. I'd sooner get a 3DS XL for the exposure to a unique gaming library.
The PC gaming has zero value to me (I have a modern laptop (Vaio i7 14" touch screen) but it's graphics are by ATI. There's no way I would get a bulkier laptop (for the 660 graphics) to stream to a more portable.
On the other hand, I hope it succeeds. The better shield does, the better the games android will recieve. I don't particularly like tegra exclusives (expecially since Chainfire's mod doesn't support JB) but most likely my next phone or tablet will have the Tegra 4
one simple reason why not.. thats because i don't own a nvidia GPU. im currently using AMD and don't plan on changing to nvidia anytime soon. from what i understand you can't use the project shield to stream games from PC without having a decent nvidia GPU
I will not be getting it either for the simple reason like stated above have an AMD card. This card is very capable of running games like this to a little device such as the Shield but they will never do it. Given I just bought my rig with some killer specs I am not willing to pay another 300 dollars for a nvidia card ton a system I already spent over 1000 on just to see the same performance out of the card. Its pretty pointless to me plus the precision you have with a mouse is far better then joysticks.
I'm still on the fence. If it's under $200 I'll definitely consider it. I'm basically looking at it as a higher quality alternative to something like the JXD S5300. I want it primarily for emulators, but also some Android games that I think would work well with a controller. If the JXD S5800 actually comes out and doesn't have any major issues I'll probably go with that, as I think that the layout (PS Vita like) would work better for games that still need some help from the touch screen.
I won't get it as it's the first time a device like this is being made, and there'll be unpredictable problems with the device. Sitting on the fence, and I'll be waiting for shield 2. Also, because I'm in no hurry.
One more reason is that I have gtx 560 ti and not 660.
Sent from my C6602 using Tapatalk 2
Def getting one here, I think it's a novel concept and I applaud Nvidia (and any other company) for trying to make a product that is unique. I do have a drawer full of "unique devices" though so it will really be up to Nvidia to stick by the device to make it successful. It is for sure priced at a premium and I believe that will be a barrier for many but, if you are a real hard core PC gamer you are used to spending pretty big bucks for a fast setup so from that perspective the price might be ok.
I pre-ordered one because it has physical buttons. I've been using an Asus Transformer Infinity tablet with a PS3 controller to play emulators when I'm bored at work. Not very Ideal. This morning I sold the infinity on craigslist, took the cash over to gamestop and pre-ordered a shield.
Android Emulators
PC Streaming
Opening new worlds with Root access
These are my reasons OP. I'm hoping that with root access we will find a way to stream the PC games without being on the same wifi network. I have amazing internet at work and at home. My gaming desktop is HUGE.
This is my steam library I have an extremely beefy desktop with an Nvidia card I built.
Well, I saw this section on XDA, and thought it was quite interesting, but I'm definately not going to buy the shield.
- It's marketed by Nvidia, I expect huge prices.
- I'm an eyefinity gamer (this means I play on a resolution of 5760x1080), scaling down to a -7- 5 inch device, while I'm even on the same network? My chair is as comfortable as the couch :/ so I see no reason to stream. (Also, I use ATI cards as Nvidia ones are overpriced over performance. "But ye, I don't have to bull**** about drivers and it just works" - You know what kind of people have that argument as well? People that buy apple)
- It's not even out yet, and pre-ordering is just insanely stupid. You're laying down money for a product that is not even tested, and you're purchasing it for the highest price possible, as products only get cheaper over time. I will even go as far as simply declaring people that pre-order products, may it be games or actual products are extremely retarded.
Svardskampe said:
Well, I saw this section on XDA, and thought it was quite interesting, but I'm definately not going to buy the shield.
- It's marketed by Nvidia, I expect huge prices.
- I'm an eyefinity gamer (this means I play on a resolution of 5760x1080), scaling down to a 7 inch device, while I'm even on the same network? My chair is as comfortable as the couch :/ so I see no reason to stream. (Also, I use ATI cards as Nvidia ones are overpriced over performance. "But ye, I don't have to bull**** about drivers and it just works" - You know what kind of people have that argument as well? People that buy apple)
- It's not even out yet, and pre-ordering is just insanely stupid. You're laying down money for a product that is not even tested, and you're purchasing it for the highest price possible, as products only get cheaper over time. I will even go as far as simply declaring people that pre-order products, may it be games or actual products are extremely retarded.
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Wow, that's a pretty large set of arrogant statements with no good backing. Why do you have an ATI card? If you stuck with a Trident card for longer, the price on that ATI card would come down even more! Calling people who preorder "extremely retarded" only means you're completely removed from rational discussion. I pre-order games if I don't want to have to worry about them on launch day. I pre-order hardware that may be hard to get on launch day (or shortly after). Maybe the real problem is that you can't afford to pre-order products, and you're jealous of people who can? Maybe you're happy with older technology until the dust has settled? Those are good reasons to claim you're not going to pre-order a product. But to announce that everyone online is "extremely retarded" is really just showing your own ignorance and cry-baby mentality.
Svardskampe said:
- It's marketed by Nvidia, I expect huge prices.
- I'm an eyefinity gamer (this means I play on a resolution of 5760x1080), scaling down to a 7 inch device.
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you call us retarded but can't get any facts for yourself before commenting.
A) price is already up. There is no price to expect when it has already been announced.
B) its 5 inches not 7.
C) It doesn't just dream, its a fully fledged android device and very capable of playing games offline, there are quite a few good games coming out on android now.
I want go get shield but its not up for pre order in the UK yet, looks to be around the £230 mark if you do a straight price conversion although if you follow existing trends they will charge £300 or more in the UK because everyone hates us and charges us more for no reason. I can't afford the £230 price tag right now, let alone if it does get a price bump.
If I get one it will likely get loaded with emulators and then it might make an interesting device to make apps for. I couldn't care less about streaming. I just see it as what the PS Vita should have been, a high end android device with a gamepad (yes it is my opinion that the vita would have been much better if it was an android device).
Oh I'm sorry, this is the internet, I need to back up the fact that a cigar is a cigar on every post I make?
The US prices are released, not any international ones. With the current rate, it should come down at €270. Hell no, it will get that tag in Europe. It could go as far as €300 to €400. That's still a huge difference.
And yes, I would go as far as claiming that pre-ordering products is an extremely retarded action. Why would you pay the royal jackpot for a product, that has no one ever reviewed yet, that no one ever put to day-to-day use and could report how it functions. You pay that royal jackpot for a mere idea or concept, led by marketing and manufacturers claims. I cannot see how this could be a good decision in any daylight.
"But to announce that everyone online is "extremely retarded" is really just showing your own ignorance and cry-baby mentality."
Why would that claim be untrue? I see no valid reason why you would not be retarded if you just believe a manufacturer by the nice blue colour of their eyes. I see no ignorance from my side, only those of who pre-order stuff. I see no cry-baby mentality in that statement, only from you who are quite tense in defending your purchase.
It's alright though, it's your purchase, your good decision to do so, and I do not say you can't do that. You're just not that sane in my opinion, just as you think negatively about me. I see you are quite tense. Don't get pushed that much by someone on the internet.
See, I know a lot more about the product than you. I've been playing with it for months. My decision to pre-order has nothing to do with marketing or hype. I choose to pre-order the product based on solid facts, hands on testing, specific knowledge of the features, and specific plans of what I intend to do with it. When I pre-order software, it is generally after either beta testing it or careful homework on the software in question with the knowledge that my friends and I will be playing it on release day together. Since I live in the US, I know the price, and I know whether it will be coming down any time soon. And they aren't allowed to charge me until they ship, so it's not profit to them yet either, I can cancel at any time.
I pay a premium to remain on cutting edge technology, and because of it, I have done well in my career. I owe my current position on getting involved with Android earlier than most people, and diving into the technical aspects of it. That's what I do.
So you can think of me as retarded all you want. I'm thinking you're just too lazy to be an informed buyer until after everyone else already has it.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app
PR0XIDIAN said:
I have an extremely beefy desktop with an Nvidia card I built.
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Dat misplaced modifier
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Jsusgarcia179 said:
Dat misplaced modifier
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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LOL! you are right. I was tired when I wrote that. I built the desktop not the Nvidia card
I will definitely be buying one as well. I have already pre ordered the shield. Some of the features that I like are obviously streaming PC games to the device so I can play them while sitting on my couch or in another room. I also like the shield for the controls so I can play games like Shadowgun, modern combat and other games like those. I also like that I can also use it just like any other Android device.
The speakers are here are incredible and it was shown that you can actually play music and use as a speaker alone which I think is a neat idea as well. Lastly I think a lot of developers are going to be making some pretty awesome games for this device and this device especially has endless possibilities.
I already have a set up that will provide a great experience for streaming PC games so don't need to buy anything extra for it to work right out of the box. I currently use Moga pro to play games on my Nexus 10, but it is a pain to carry around both devices for this to happen.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
I`ve pre-ordered mine on May 16, 2013 for a fun reasons like to help developers in test with custom recoveries, kernels, systems or such things. I hope there is going to be guys who willing to develope for this thing something because it got some good potential.
Ixz said:
I`ve pre-ordered mine on May 16, 2013 for a fun reasons like to help developers in test with custom recoveries, kernels, systems or such things. I hope there is going to be guys who willing to develope for this thing something because it got some good potential.
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Recovery looks like it will lack touch for a while, but developing ROMs for it shouldn't be overly difficult.
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Premium HD app
As mentioned in another thread, Lenovo quietly refreshed the Tab 3 Pro with 4GB RAM, a newer Intel m5 processor, and 64GB storage, FWIW. Stacking it up against the Tab 3 Plus (3GB RAM, Snapdragon 8-core, 32GB), so far a lot is speculation or anecdata.
My main questions, to put the TL;DR at the top:
How does the Plus perform out of the box, before doing any XDA magic on it? Have the audio sync issues been fixed? A Lenovo rep has been quoted saying they have been fixed.
How do these two CPUs compare? I've seen speculation that Android and/or certain apps may not be as well optimized for Intel chips, even if the m5 is otherwise more capable.
I'm strongly considering one of these two, probably the Pro. Most people, just shopping for a good tablet, will probably go with the Plus. It's currently $200 cheaper (40%), and that price point for the display and speaker quality, along with dat battery, is unquestionably a good deal. The Plus has some OOBE issues: A/V sync (possibly fixed), encryption lag, some questionable display "enhancements." But, it also has at least one dev here at XDA who has fixed all of the above and provided root, at least for the WiFi only model available in the US.
I've only had credible feedback from two different people regarding the new Pro, but word is performance is solid. Both people had the old 2GB Pro long enough to try out, and found it barely usable due to encryption lag and low RAM, and both say the new Pro is not the fastest tablet they've ever used, but has no real issues. It's probably underperforming for its hardware, but the hardware is strong enough you won't notice. Which is good, because it may never have dev support here, or not until the price drops significantly (though who knows, XDA has surprised me before).
What it probably comes down to is whether you want that projector. The projector isn't all you get for $200 - there are also small spec bumps across the board, and double the onboard storage - but if you don't have a realistic use for the projector, it would be hard to justify the extra cost. The real world performance difference between the Pro and Plus is probably not large, and may even fall in the Plus's favor if some apps have trouble with the Intel CPU (not at all verified). For me, the projector looks like it will make a serviceable bedroom TV, and probably a more comfortable solution than any of my options for getting a flatscreen in my room. The 480p will probably be inadequate for throwing comic books up on the wall (and certainly not on par with that 2HD screen), but I would give it a try.
For me, the bedroom TV prospect is one of the things pushing me over that "Do I really need a new tablet..." line. My Nook HD+ used to get a lot of use, but has been collecting dust for 2-3 years in favor of a good desktop and smartphone, and a Kindle Paperwhite taking over book duty. Now, is it not getting used because it's old and slow, or is it not getting used because I don't have much use for it?
Feedback on the new Pro is sparse, so if you have one in your hands, please let us know about it.
Taosaur said:
A Lenovo rep has been quoted saying they have been fixed.
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Where did you see this?
kayakyakr said:
Where did you see this?
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In the aforementioned thread:
Klvn88 said:
Was talking to a Lenovo Sales Rep on their online chat system about the audio sync issue and she was saying they have "received information that all issues have been fixed." I asked her to be specific about the audio sync issue and she confirmed they were told the audio sync issue has been fixed. Any idea if this is true or was she just saying what she thought I wanted to hear?
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Also in the comments of a recent Amazon review, someone stating he was not having these issues on a newly purchased Plus, though I don't know if the problem was universal. Again, nothing solid, and I would love to hear from others with a stock Plus.
Taosaur said:
In the aforementioned thread:
Also in the comments of a recent Amazon review, someone stating he was not having these issues on a newly purchased Plus, though I don't know if the problem was universal. Again, nothing solid, and I would love to hear from others with a stock Plus.
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I wouldn't trust either of those sources until we start to see OTA updates coming out from Lenovo fixing the issues. The Amazon user is not a power user while the different arms of Lenovo don't seem to know what the other is doing.
kayakyakr said:
I wouldn't trust either of those sources until we start to see OTA updates coming out from Lenovo fixing the issues. The Amazon user is not a power user while the different arms of Lenovo don't seem to know what the other is doing.
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Yep, that's why I'm asking. All the info on Amazon (regarding these two devices) is pretty useless.
Is it normal for there to be such limited reviews/information for Lenovo Tablets?! Really want to buy it, but just want to know more! haha.
There are a decent number of YouTube reviews of the previous Pro, and a couple non-English ones for this model, but Lenovo made zero publicity about the new model and didn't even give it a new name. Here's some info I got from someone on YouTube, for what it's worth:
Taosaur: I'm hoping the spec bump on the new model gets around some of the performance issues.
YouTuber: can confirm. I actually bought the new version to test it out! Loved it so much that that I sold my iPad lmao. No lag at all really
Reply
Taosaur: Thanks for the feedback! It doesn't seem like Lenovo's much interested in people knowing the new model exists. Do you ever pull out the projector? I've been surprised how positive the feedback has been on a pretty dim 480p projector.
YouTuber: Yes I do! It's very great to seeing movies on it rather than the screen because of the size. Especially because I have a big white wall in my bedroom. The one issue I've come across with this tablet is that every battery capacity app states I have 4300 MAH battery. Less than half of 10200... however I recently learned I'm not the only one experiencing this and the battery capacity thing seems to only be a glitch. I get around 8-9 hours of screen on time with about an hour of projector use included in that so it's still pretty good
Taosaur: I don't suppose you've tried the projector with comic books? I'm guessing the resolution wouldn't make it a great experience, and the 2HD screen would be better regardless, but I'm sure I'll try it if I end up pulling the trigger. Any idea if the Hoopla Digital app works on this tablet? It's a an app for borrowing digital comics and other media with a library card. It's not compatible with my current tablet running CyanogenMod Nougat.
YouTuber: I just tested a comic and it seems to work fine. I'm sure the projector would be fine with comic books in the pitch black for sure. I just tested that app for ya and it opens just fine. I don't have a hoopla account though so I didn't get past the login screen.
I gotta say he projector is really nice for movie watching. One thing I gotta mention is... The blacks in the display aren't that good... The blacks have a blueish tone to it. I wish it was an amoled display. Still the colors are quite vibrant. Also the screen gets REALLY bright and also gets REALLY dim. Great for daytime use and night use. I tried the pixel c and it wasn't dim enough so it hurt my eyes at night
But that makes the projector all the nicer to use. After using the projector to watch the walking dead, it's hard to go back to the screen for movie watching haha. Seems so small in comparison. It's really amazing having it in such a small package. Especially as the projector is totally fanless and never needs replacement bulbs.
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And I did pull the trigger a couple days ago, so I should have the Pro sometime tomorrow :fingers-crossed: I'll let you know what I think.
Taosaur said:
There are a decent number of YouTube reviews of the previous Pro, and a couple non-English ones for this model, but Lenovo made zero publicity about the new model and didn't even give it a new name. Here's some info I got from someone on YouTube, for what it's worth:
And I did pull the trigger a couple days ago, so I should have the Pro sometime tomorrow :fingers-crossed: I'll let you know what I think.
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Awesome, thanks for posting that convo between you and the YouTuber. Would definitely like to hear you own experience with it.. I likely would just get the Plus version, as I don't see myself using the projector enough to justify the significantly higher price tag here in Canada. Hoping the 3gb ram is good enough for me to just use it as a media tablet, won't be a whole lot of multi-tasking. :fingers-crossed:
I have the 4gb pro and its really good. I had the 2gb pro and it was terrible due to the RAM issue. The 4gb has no such issues. I am still considering returning and getting the 3gb 10.1 inch plus version though. It's $200 less, I dont need the projector, 3gb of ram should be enough to solve the issues of the 2gb pro and 4gb is probably overkill on the new pro. A few things are holding me back from making the change.
The audio sync issue is obviously a huge concern since I use the tablet for media consumption exclusively. Also, there is not a lot of info on how much different the 2 majorly different cpu's are intel vs snapdragon. While the intel cpu is better on paper as its been mentioned the snapdragon has much better overall android optimization due to being so ubiquitous. Also can anyone confirm if the 3gb snapdragon has quick charge? The intel version does and its fanstastic.
My Pro showed up Monday, and I do like the projector. It may end up my most-used feature, though the screen is also gorgeous. I hang the thing over my bed and project on the opposite wall, which gives at least a 55" image, less sharp but easier on the eyes at night than a backlit LCD. Zen Pinball is my go-to game on a tablet, and it plays great - the stand comes in handy. I wouldn't try to play any detailed games with the projector, but old-school emulators would probably be great, and again, the 2HD display is excellent.
There have been bugs:
I had a one-off sound glitch with the pinball game, getting really distorted sound, but going into Dolby Atmos and switching to game mode fixed it.
"Request failed" toasts kept popping up last night while I was watching Hulu. No clue what they were, but they didn't interrupt playback.
So far I've had no luck pairing the tablet with my phone over bluetooth. They see each other, but give "wrong pin" errors, despite showing the same pin. Both connect fine to my headphones and speaker.
FYI, there are more credible reports showing up on Amazon that a software update has corrected the Plus' A/V sync and "flickering" issues.
mike240se said:
I have the 4gb pro and its really good. I had the 2gb pro and it was terrible due to the RAM issue. The 4gb has no such issues. I am still considering returning and getting the 3gb 10.1 inch plus version though. It's $200 less, I dont need the projector, 3gb of ram should be enough to solve the issues of the 2gb pro and 4gb is probably overkill on the new pro. A few things are holding me back from making the change.
The audio sync issue is obviously a huge concern since I use the tablet for media consumption exclusively. Also, there is not a lot of info on how much different the 2 majorly different cpu's are intel vs snapdragon. While the intel cpu is better on paper as its been mentioned the snapdragon has much better overall android optimization due to being so ubiquitous. Also can anyone confirm if the 3gb snapdragon has quick charge? The intel version does and its fanstastic.
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Have you had any issues with random apps not working? I recently purchased it and cannot get snapchat to work on it for the life of me.
I just bought the plus, I haven't had any audio sync issues thus far and am pretty happy with the overall build quality and performance thus far.
xerogabe106 said:
Have you had any issues with random apps not working? I recently purchased it and cannot get snapchat to work on it for the life of me.
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Everything I've tried on it has worked well. I still get that "request failed" pop up at random times. I can only confirm that Snapchat installs and opens - I'm not about to make an account.
Taosaur said:
Everything I've tried on it has worked well. I still get that "request failed" pop up at random times. I can only confirm that Snapchat installs and opens - I'm not about to make an account.
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It opens after a fresh install, I can get to the login/create account screen. But after login it just crashes and crashes when I startup as well.
COMMUNITY IS ALL ABOUT SHARING, AND I HAVE SOME GREAT NEWS TO SHARE WITH MY FRIENDS HERE ON XDA!!
I've have a 32GB Nexus 9 LTE for almost 2 years now, and she's been great, but, as most folks here will understand, I WANTED MORE RAM!! I picked up a Pixel C a month ago, and decided it was time to give the RAM upgrade a shot. Since I have the Pixel, if the worst happened during the upgrade attempt it wouldn't be the end of the world.
WELL, IT WORKED!!
I am working on a video tutorial, but wanted to share the good news with everyone!!
While I wouldn't describe my N9 as "laggy", it most definitely had it's bottleneck issues, especially on RAM intensive tasks like Chrome w/ multiple tabs open. Luckily, the LPDDR3 module is not stacked on the SoC in a SoP configuration . . THANK GOD TOO!! Because 2GB of RAM on a CPU this beastly is like putting a 100mph governor on an Indy Car. It took me a while, but I was FINALLY able to snag a 32Gb (514Mb x x64) single module (That's 4GB BTW). It's not that I couldn't find the right module; what held me back was waiting for Samsung to release the single module 64Gb (8GB) 253-Ball VFBGA LPDDR3. The Tegra K1 supports up to 8GB of LPDDR3 or DDR3L, but since the Nexus 9's board is built with support for a single VFBGA RAM module, you only have support for one. I got impatient and went with a 4GB module. The module is 1866MHz, but it runs at 1600MHz, so I don't think the K1 supports higher than 1600MHz (800MHz x 2), but I could be wrong. I didn't wanna push my luck with such an invasive upgrade, so I didn't look into pushing it to its rated 1866MHz. Besides, the stock module is 1600MHz anyway, and that's plenty fast for what I'm using my N9 for. I know it supports DDR3L, but I didn't wanna create compatibility insanity, so I played it safe, sticking with the exact same module brand (Elpida/Micron), type (LPDDR3), speed (800MHz x 2), and package size (VFBGA 253-Ball), but with a higher density (512Mb x x64 = 32Gb, or, 4GB). After removing the stock module, and careful placement and reflow, I was kinda surprised when I turned it on and it just worked. Not that I expected a problem, but y'all know how it goes. :fingers-crossed:
Props to Nvidia for an extremely flexible SoC. :good:
*(I will put the module details below if anyone wants to do what I did and upgrade their N9's RAM)*
After the upgrade, I decided to address the Tegra's heat issues. Long ago, I deduced that the cooling solution was lacking, if even there at all. So while I had her opened up, I spread some MX-4 between the SoC and an extremely thin copper square which acts as a heat-sink. Then I used a teeny-tiny vapor chamber heat pipe that was originally attached to a VRM cooler on a busted SuperMicro server board. After welding the heat pipe onto the copper plate, I cut out a small hole in the back cover and connected the condensing side of the heat pipe to a small, flat flat-finned VRM heat-sink. The heat pipe is obnoxiously long, so I had to get kinda creative with the spacing. I did consider using a teeny-tiny fan, but that seemed like overkill lol, not to mention the reduction in battery life. I made a small vented cover, but there is a noticeable bump on the rear cover, but with my case on it, and the fact that it's almost always on a stand, it hasn't been an issue.
Now, with a REAL cooling solution in place, I was able to use flar2's overclocking options on his kernel via his EX Kernel Manager app. With the CPU at 2.5GHz (up from 2.3GHz stock), and the GPU at 984MHz (up from 852MHz stock), along with several other tweaks, she has been AMAZING ever since, with zero lag, zero random reboots, etc. With fsync disabled, I consistently score between 120,000 and 130,000 on Antutu, depending on governor settings. I couldn't really push her prior to the cooling solution without some major throttling, but those days are OVER!! I don't know why Google/HTC didn't at least use SOMETHING as a cooling solution. Even a small thermal dissipation pad and a little piece of vented copper would've been more than enough to keep the throttling at bay. Not Nvidia's fault, I'm assuming their specs call for a specific Tcase for proper functionality, and I guess they didn't push her all that hard in the testing phase.
I'm working on a video tutorial & step by step guide for the RAM upgrade and the cooling solution, so if that's something you'd wanna do to your N9 (and if you're good with micro repair, I absolutely think you should do it!), I should have it up on the N9 forum by mid-week.
* The module I replaced the stock 16Gb (2GB) with is made by Micron/Elpida. The product number is:
- MT52L512M64D4PQ-107 WT -
There is another module with a VERY SIMILAR product number, with the same specs, but different BGA mounting & ball count: MT52L512M64D4GN-107 WT. I actually made this mistake and assumed the module was VFBGA, but it's actually WFVGA (256-Ball), and the voltage loop-back logic pads are NOT compatible with the N9's VFBGA module pads. Just stay away from any module that ends in 'GN' and you'll be alright.
I'm highly anticipating your video and this is absolutely fantastic news! I have 2 questions for you however since I'll be a little new on this installation:
1. Was the RAM module that was made from Samsung released? If yes is there a way to order it? I highly believe that with 8gb of LPDDR3 this tablet has a huge potential for future proofing and will eliminate the need to buy a tablet for a long long time.
2. Are there any specific tools or equipment I need to buy in order to follow your installation?
I'm highly looking forward to your reply and thank you so much for the upcoming guide.
Following....
Looking forward for that video.
I'm quite excited!!
4/8G on a tablet!!!
When is that 8G chip coming out?
https://www.avnet.com/shop/us/p/mt5...5626301278?CMP=EMA_Octopart_inventoryfeed_VSE right? Where did you get yours ?
I seriously doubt that 8gb would bring anything more comparing with 4gb. I think the main bottleneck is cpu architecture. It's very strange that 2 strong cores stutter more than some 8 core cpus. Nvidia doesn't have as large experience with cpus and has made mistakes, while it has largest exps with gpu.
Firstly, let me say, well done. :highfive:
Someone had to do it and you were brave enough to put your money on the line. Respect.
Any idea how you upgrade performs compared to a standard Nexus 9? It would be cool if you could get another and do a side by side test.
A part of me wishes you could have just upgraded the RAM and compared to a standard Nexus 9 as we will never know which of your upgrades has the biggest effect.
Just wanted to give everyone a quick update.
Work has been sucking up all of my time, but I have the day off tomorrow so I should be able to get the guide/tutorial up by the end of the weekend.
She's still running wonderfully, however I did decide to go the itty-bitty fan route just to see if there was a difference, and sure enough, I got my idle temp hovering around 30C - 35C, so I may add a step for an optional fan installation. I found a super slim battery pack and a 5V Raspberry Pi fan and it worked like a charm. I just need to figure out a way to tidy up the wiring.
Anyhoo, happy Saturday, and stay tuned!
Can we order these from somewhere? Everywhere i looked have zero in stock.
Looking forward for the video tutorial. While I do not have a tablet replacement for mine, I will still do this!
The thing I'm most worried about is flashing the firmware back to the new chip.
Things I think I'll need .
#1 A tool that can read and write to the chip so we can backup or restore.(those tools cost like 100$+)
#2 soldering iron or something to detach and reattach the chip.
PS. I'm really looking for that 8G ram chip.
I will need to compile a new kernel to support more than 4G but that's no problem.
This memory eMMC NAND Flash chip KLMCG8GEAC-B001-BGA-64GB seems to be similar to ours. Just curious will this one fits? :fingers-crossed:
Maybe Need4Sneed broke his tablet.
Marky__Mark said:
Maybe Need4Sneed broke his tablet.
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Maybe...
Marky__Mark said:
Maybe Need4Sneed broke his tablet.
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Or maybe he doesn't have the time to make the video yet because he's busy with life. Let's wait and see. I'm optimistic nonetheless because in the case that happens he could have said it earlier and this thread would have been closed .
ElementalXY said:
Or maybe he doesn't have the time to make the video yet because he's busy with life. Let's wait and see. I'm optimistic nonetheless because in the case that happens he could have said it earlier and this thread would have been closed .
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Maybe, maybe not. Im interested in this too, but Ill believe it when I see it.
Marky__Mark said:
Maybe, maybe not. Im interested in this too, but Ill believe it when I see it.
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I'm with you 100% on that . Let's assume the best in either case scenario.
It seems that it is not as easy as the author tells us.
And I doubt that he has something that works, or he did at least what he writes about.
Vartom said:
It seems that it is not as easy as the author tells us.
And I doubt that he has something that works, or he did at least what he writes about.
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He probably broke his tablet installing that fan and who knows what else.
But it would a dream, upgrading this tablet to 4g ram and 64 gb storage,.. Too good to be true...
Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk
At the very least, this guy can at least tell us where he got his.
@Need4Sneed
Are things ok?