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So, has anyone tried to connect a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter)
I just ordered a FIIO Q1 From Amazon, and just wondering if it will work at all.
Thanks in advance.
MuyKurioso said:
So, has anyone tried to connect a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter)
I just ordered a FIIO Q1 From Amazon, and just wondering if it will work at all.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried a co-worker's DACmagic the other day and it certainly worked flawlessly and transparently (no fuss, just plugged it in and it diverted audio instantly).
However, I couldn't notice any difference at all between straight output from X Force and from the DAC back-to-back (as far as possible) with my Sony MDR-100AAP headphones.
I'm assuming that this reflects well on the X Force in-built DAC rather than poorly on the DACmagic (given universal praise of that USB DAC as far as I can find)
chaosdefinesorder said:
I tried a co-worker's DACmagic the other day and it certainly worked flawlessly and transparently (no fuss, just plugged it in and it diverted audio instantly).
However, I couldn't notice any difference at all between straight output from X Force and from the DAC back-to-back (as far as possible) with my Sony MDR-100AAP headphones.
I'm assuming that this reflects well on the X Force in-built DAC rather than poorly on the DACmagic (given universal praise of that USB DAC as far as I can find)
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Click to collapse
What kind of files did you use? The main reason i wanted the DAC is for lossless files through Tidal. So, if the built in DAC on our Force is that good, guess I'll be returning Fiio's DAC.
MuyKurioso said:
What kind of files did you use? The main reason i wanted the DAC is for lossless files through Tidal. So, if the built in DAC on our Force is that good, guess I'll be returning Fiio's DAC.
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that is a small caveat; I tried it with the "high quality" download from Play Music, so not lossless, however I still stand by there being barely any perceptible difference - particularly considering the DACmagic (and others) bills itself as improving even "SD" audio...
I would consider myself "picky about sound quality" rather than full-on audiophile, but I know what to listen out for - and what I (personally) consider good sound quality - and I would say the X Force headphone output with the MDR-100AAP sounds great to me. Better than the headphone output on the SoundBlaster X-Fi Ti in my PC, actually. In other words, I don't consider the difference with the X Force to be worth ~$100 of USB DAC
Then again, I'm also sceptical of the difference between high bit-rate MP3/AAC/OGG vs. FLAC in the first place, so maybe I'm just not the right kind of person :silly:
Of course I'd recommend you try back-to-back with and without the FIIO when you get it and decide for yourself (presumably you'd do that anyway!)! After seeing the size and weight of the DACmagic (USB powered, no battery!), I was considering getting one for myself until I tried it and determined that it just wasn't worth the £50 to £100 they typically retail for! I may change my mind in the future, though...
chaosdefinesorder said:
I tried a co-worker's DACmagic the other day and it certainly worked flawlessly and transparently (no fuss, just plugged it in and it diverted audio instantly).
However, I couldn't notice any difference at all between straight output from X Force and from the DAC back-to-back (as far as possible) with my Sony MDR-100AAP headphones.
I'm assuming that this reflects well on the X Force in-built DAC rather than poorly on the DACmagic (given universal praise of that USB DAC as far as I can find)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
chaosdefinesorder said:
that is a small caveat; I tried it with the "high quality" download from Play Music, so not lossless, however I still stand by there being barely any perceptible difference - particularly considering the DACmagic (and others) bills itself as improving even "SD" audio...
I would consider myself "picky about sound quality" rather than full-on audiophile, but I know what to listen out for - and what I (personally) consider good sound quality - and I would say the X Force headphone output with the MDR-100AAP sounds great to me. Better than the headphone output on the SoundBlaster X-Fi Ti in my PC, actually. In other words, I don't consider the difference with the X Force to be worth ~$100 of USB DAC
Then again, I'm also sceptical of the difference between high bit-rate MP3/AAC/OGG vs. FLAC in the first place, so maybe I'm just not the right kind of person :silly:
Of course I'd recommend you try back-to-back with and without the FIIO when you get it and decide for yourself (presumably you'd do that anyway!)! After seeing the size and weight of the DACmagic (USB powered, no battery!), I was considering getting one for myself until I tried it and determined that it just wasn't worth the £50 to £100 they typically retail for! I may change my mind in the future, though...
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Click to collapse
Well, call me crazy but I do hear the difference between Spotify and Tidal, in terms of streaming services, so i guess I'll update this post when my Fiio arrives.
Also, did you use the DACmagic as an amp, or as DAC with USB OTG, or both amp and DAC?
MuyKurioso said:
Well, call me crazy but I do hear the difference between Spotify and Tidal, in terms of streaming services, so i guess I'll update this post when my Fiio arrives.
Also, did you use the DACmagic as an amp, or as DAC with USB OTG, or both amp and DAC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess for me it's mostly a case of the difference not being worth the cost increase!
The DACmagix XS (the specific model) is a DAC - as in it only has micro-USB on one end and 3.5mm jack on the other, nothing else other than volume up/down buttons!
I've been tempted to try Tidal premium for a while, but again the cost/worth tug-o-war comes in vs. my current only £7.99 per month for Play Music...
Just got an X Force in the UK and can confirm it works with my Chord Mojo DAC under Marshmallow.
I've been reading mixed reviews on the SQ of these units. I've read about the mod and it sounded like the sound just got louder. But is the sound fine and just flat sounding or is it something else? I was thinking a line driver would help or maybe it would just amplify the noise. I have some decent audio equipment and I don't want to feel I'm not getting the full potential out of them. I do use some WAV and FLAC files. I guess I can't tell if people are commenting on the on board audio or from their amps hooked up to the RCAs.
I have a 2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. I had the factory 430N head unit, with the base 8 speaker system. I replaced 4 of the 8 speakers with Kickers and add a Kicker sub and amp (amp is just for the sub), and it sounded better but still not great.
THis weekend I added a Joying Jeep specific unit, and I feel like the sound of the overall system is vastly improved. I think it sounds pretty good, I primarily use Google Play Music and Pandora.
CadillacMike said:
I have a 2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. I had the factory 430N head unit, with the base 8 speaker system. I replaced 4 of the 8 speakers with Kickers and add a Kicker sub and amp (amp is just for the sub), and it sounded better but still not great.
THis weekend I added a Joying Jeep specific unit, and I feel like the sound of the overall system is vastly improved. I think it sounds pretty good, I primarily use Google Play Music and Pandora.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you add a line driver at all to bump up the voltage on the pre-outs?
splxtreme said:
Did you add a line driver at all to bump up the voltage on the pre-outs?
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Click to collapse
I did not add anything. The sub and amp are built for Jeep, so it might be a little weird:
http://www.kicker.com/SWRA411
have any of you measure the pre-out voltage on the joying? On my tonghai create 2nd gen unit, pre-out voltage is only 1V. What this means is you will have a high noise floor going into your amplifier. Then your amp will amplify any noise your pre-outs have picked up. So if you use a line driver to raise the pre-out voltage prior to going into your amp, the higher voltage actually LOWERS the noise floor, hence eliminating noise that your RCAs may pick up.
My advice is you MUST have a line driver if you plan to use these units w/ a external amp. The difference will be night and day, particularly in the higher frequencies, where amplified noise is more pronounced.
They are dirt cheap too. I bought one on amazon for ~$30. It is actually a 3-way cross-over/line driver combo. It feels cheap but does it's job as a line driver very well.
edit: I say the above from personal experience, as I literally spent months trying to figure out why my tweeters always sounded so terrible. Line driver did the trick. Now I have clean highs and more clear, vibrant mids. I don't seem to notice much difference in my bass, so apparently noise interference isn't audible in the lower frequencies.
explain "line driver" to a stupid dumb dumb person, not me of course, just so other people understand
CadillacMike said:
explain "line driver" to a stupid dumb dumb person, not me of course, just so other people understand
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
line driver is just another word for a voltage step-up device. It's simply a way to increase the voltage of the RCA pre-outs coming out of your HU. Most amplifiers can read all the way down to about .5V pre-outs no problem. So a low pre-out voltage isn't much of a problem in theory.
But, an amplifier is also a voltage step-up device. It's going to take the pre-out voltage and multiply it by a pre-determined amount. You can adjust that amount by modifying gain. Your speakers are rated for a certain RMS power (80W for instance). So, if your speakers are 4 ohms rated for 80W RMS, the formula for the voltage it needs from your amp is sqrt(80 * 4) = 18V. So for your speaker to get the full rated power, it needs at least 18V from your amp. Higher pre-amp voltage = easier to reach the rated output to your speakers, since less gain is required.
Also, I mentioned noise floor. It's explained well here -
http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/preouts.html
It's not so easy to explain in laymans terms, but just know that higher voltage pre-outs = higher signal to noise ratio (SNR), meaning more signal & less noise = lower noise floor.
The article does mention however that having too high of a pre-out voltage is not good either, as it can lead to clipping. Best to buy an adjustable line driver (the $30 amazon model I bought had this feature... this one -
https://www.amazon.com/SX310-Pre-Am...70255121&sr=8-1&keywords=electronic+crossover). Most devices that accept pre-outs max out at around 6V, some as low as 4V. So don't crank up the line driver to max... I leave mine around 75-80%.
Hope that helps.
Just watching the htc u11 coverage and the noise cancelling type c headphones. Would it increase the experience on devices like the axon 7 when we've still got a headphone jack ?
front firing speakers said:
Just watching the htc u11 coverage and the noise cancelling type c headphones. Would it increase the experience on devices like the axon 7 when we've still got a headphone jack ?
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Click to collapse
shouldn't it be the same? I don't think there would be a difference besides the noise cancelling. Maybe those headphones get the power for that stuff from the USB but some noise cancelling 3.5mm with battery should be the same...?
Otherwise the only way I can think of to test if they're better or worse is by modding them so that the noise cancel is off, and test with USB-C then put them a 3.5 jack and test them too.
But you won't be able to charge, for what it's worth
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I probably am anyways
The audio wouldn't use the device's amp and dac and so the audio could be better on phones with really bad dacs and amps but on phones like the Axon 7 and LG v20 then the audio would most likely be worse.
You get an audio that is the same and more objective across devices because the headphones uses its own dac and amp, so the headphones can be better tuned by the manufacturer because your player no longer matter. Also, the power supply from type-c enables active noise cancelling without battery such as JBL reflect aware c, HTC usonic of U11, Xiaomi active noise cancelling earphones.
However, senny is probably correct as usb-c earphones may not use high end dac and amp.
Dac's are only connected to 3,5mm jack, stereo speakers and probably to microphone (to be confirmed) so there will be no Dolby features with type c headphones.
There one advantage - if you have active noice cancelation they can be powered via USB type c the same time you keep using it.
MrMD69 said:
Dac's are only connected to 3,5mm jack, stereo speakers and probably to microphone (to be confirmed) so there will be no Dolby features with type c headphones.
There one advantage - if you have active noice cancelation they can be powered via USB type c the same time you keep using it.
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Click to collapse
Dolby seems to work with BT speakers (tested this myself), so it might affect usb-c headphone. Mins toy it's just the equalizer that worked not the HiFi mode
gumbyx84 said:
Dolby seems to work with BT speakers (tested this myself), so it might affect usb-c headphone. Mins toy it's just the equalizer that worked not the HiFi mode
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Click to collapse
Hmm it works like equalizer or like much clearer, better audio ?
MrMD69 said:
Hmm it works like equalizer or like much clearer, better audio ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Equalizer
With the excellent DAC/AMP and audio capabilities of the Axon 7, I don't really see the benefit of USB-C headphone. And as I'm nor sure if the USB-C headphones would bypass the built in DAC/AMP it may be worse, I don't know. Either way I don't really see an advantage. Of course you loose the ability to listen to music while charging.
If Audeze comes out with a USB-C version of their Cipher cable that has a built in DAC/AMP tuned for their specific headphones (EL-8, Sine, iSine), then that might actually be worth getting. But as of yet the Cipher cables is Apple Lightning port only and their headphone are expensive audiophile grade headphones.
RojasTKD said:
their headphone are expensive audiophile grade headphones.
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Click to collapse
And THIS will be the problem with type C headphones... Any that are cheap won't have good audio, you're gonna have to spend a small fortune on headphones that sound like the ones that are supplied free with the phone now...
ultramag69 said:
And THIS will be the problem with type C headphones... Any that are cheap won't have good audio... you're gonna have to spend a small fortune on headphones that sound like the ones that are supplied free with the phone now...
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Click to collapse
That's not a problem with USB-C headphones, it the nature of cheap headphones.
ultramag69 said:
you're gonna have to spend a small fortune on headphones that sound like the ones that are supplied free with the phone now...
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Click to collapse
Why? Usually the headphones that are included for free now aren't very good sounding.Who going to pay a fortune for headphones that sound as bad as the standard offerings?
If USB-C becomes they way things go for headphone audio, which remains to be seen, you'll have a range of choices of various price point. Only those that want truely steller audio will spend a "fortune", just as it is now.
senny22 said:
The audio wouldn't use the device's amp and dac and so the audio could be better on phones with really bad dacs and amps but on phones like the Axon 7 and LG v20 then the audio would most likely be worse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RojasTKD said:
That's not a problem with USB-C headphones, it the nature of cheap headphones.
Why? Usually the headphones that are included for free now aren't very good sounding.Who going to pay a fortune for headphones that sound as bad as the standard offerings?
If USB-C becomes they way things go for headphone audio, which remains to be seen, you'll have a range of choices of various price point. Only those that want truely steller audio will spend a "fortune", just as it is now.
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Click to collapse
I think ultramag means we need to pay a fortune to get a headphone with dac and amp as good as the ones inside our phones.
themostunique said:
I think ultramag means we need to pay a fortune to get a headphone with dac and amp as good as the ones inside our phones.
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Click to collapse
Eh, I don't know. If you refering to a high quality DAC/AMP like whats in the Axon 7 maybe not cheap but not a fortune either. But most phones have a mediocre audio out put in comparison. I sometimes use headphones with an $15 external Mpow Bluetooth receiver that delivers more power then my other phones (Nexus 6P & LG G5). There's always the USB-C to 3.5mm adapter that the few phones that don't offer a headphone jack come with. Of course lets not forget most devices still bring a headphone jack, and hopefully it will stay that way for a while.
At any rate as far as the original question posed in this thread, a USB-C headphones will not really being anything to the table as far as the Axon 7 is concerned as it has one of the top headphone jacks currently available.
Until someone offers a very high quality USB-C pair of headphones that can outperform the A7's built in solution it's not needed. Even if and when something like that becomes available it only for you average user, but those who really really care about their audio and are willing to pay for every last bit of it.
I just don't see it costing a fortune, unless you want REALLY REALYY good audio, pretty much as is the case today.
Guys I need your valuable opinion about the audio dac on this for NORMAL earphones like RHA s500. does it feel lot different as of compared to other phones on normal earphones or do we need High impedance headphone ?
Am in dilemma of purchase decision
Am a music lover
Getting fed better audio should benefit most decent headphones. Of course the higher quality headphones will see the most benefit and take full advantage of the V20's audio capabilities. You don't need high impedance to take advantage of the quad DACs capabilities. It just delivers more "juice" to higher impedance headphones that require more power to drive. Some specific lower impedance headphones may do better if you could manually turn on the high output mode, my Audeze iSine 10s for example, but in general it will be fine for most earphone out there.
Just tested my Axon 7 (also a with a high quality DAC/AMP on board) vs My LG G5 (standard built in audio) with some cheap but pretty good sounding earphone ($10 to $15 KZ ZST ). I can sounds cleaner and voices are a little "sweeter". It more noticeable with my more expensive gear.
If you're into audio the V20 or Axon 7 are the phones to get, but there should be other reason to select a phone as well. Unless you really really desire superior audio, I wouldn't make my buying decision based solely on that.
I can hear a difference. It clearer sounding and vocals are a bit sweater. If you not big into audio it may be a bit subtle, at least at first.
Important update 11/9/18:
Android Pie seems to have fixed the digital gain defaulting to max. This means that the stock implementation is now optimal and using the gain control app is not needed (unless you want more voltage from a Dragonfly Red).
This was not announced anywhere to my knowledge, but is very pleasant surprise. I found it accidentally while testing the new dongle (above link).
Updated: Edit--I did some further tests and unfortunately the gain optimization only seems to work with line in mode, not with a "forced" headset scenario. So with a headset inserted, the distortion bands are still present.
As of the Nov patch, Pie on the Pixel has fixed both the line out and headset mode distortion banding when using the Google DAC.
When looking at the tracings, assume that stock will look as good as the optimized.
Made a simple spreadsheet with data so far:
{
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"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
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The above numbers are using my gain control app, android volume at 25/25 to produce the best possible output signal
Note, the voltage at distortion threshold is the point where harmonic banding becomes >5 dB.
The THD is the harmonic distortion at 250 mV, this would be about 90 dB using full size cans like the Senn 650/800 that have a sensitivity of 103 dB/V.
Will work on uploading the exact images if anyone is interested.
Stepped sine tests at higher output (750mV) - An attempt to see how high impedance, lower sensitivity full size cans will effect distortion.
Edit: I updated the measurements and comments
Edit: Tested Apple USB C Dac
Edit: Tested the HTC dongle
Edit: Tested the Razer Dac
Edit: Tested the Realtec Dac
Edit: Tested the Geekria Dac
Edit: Tested the Audiolab USB device
Edit: Brief test of Dragonfly red. I would consider this to be the gold standard, very low impedance (<.1), minimal crosstalk, high volt out (not on stock), very low distortion.
Edit: There appears to be 3 (at least) "modes" that the Google dongle will do. Depending on the impedance of the headset/line out device attached, the output voltage varies quite a bit.
Low impedance - .36 Volt (high efficiency iem's)
High impedance - .9 Volt (full size headphones)
Very high impedance- 1.8 Volt (line out)
What gets interesting is the effects on testing. The "reference" sites like GSMarena, are testing with a Y cable setup (as I was) and will see high voltage out even with headphones attached since the use case was taken from the line out initially. What made me aware of this was that my app was not reading the Spl correctly, as if the max voltage was about 7 dB down (which it was). Also of note, the reduction in output is not due to a change in the Dac digital gain (the one that adjust from 1 to 175), so the distortion bands are just as bad since they kept that gain at 175.
RMAA:
Used both a Senn 800S and Shure 846 as load, as well as no load.
Note the flat FR on the SE 846 which verifies the low impedance above.
So superb impedance, great voltage out, pretty good crosstalk (with low impedance iems).
But, significant distortion using stock gain settings:
And it has 25 volume steps (each tick is 2.3 dB).
going to subscribe for those that have invested in 3.5mm portable audiophile amps/iems.
Nice work. Subscribed!
By the way, very nice headphones. I'm looking forward to testing out LDAC on my MDR-1000Xs when my Pixel arrives.
Hi bjmrd,
So I was looking at the Phone arena review in regards to the audio quality through the dongle.
It showed this
Not sure if this means the 2XL is weaker than the 2?
What does your test conclude? Would this device provide a nice audio experience for the user ?
This is important to me as I use 3.5mm headphones.
Thanks in advance,
Previous devices are the V20 (superb) and the non DAC G6.
I double checked my voltage measurements and they seem correct (compared to a dragonfly red).
The dongle may contain a DAC (like apple lightening). It is possible that with root, ALSA, some of the distortion can be reduced if so. Certainly the voltage is good, impedance great.
Oh and each volume tick is about 2.5 dB.
Addendum - The dongle definitely has a DAC
I have ordered a USB audio pass through cable to see if onboard analog is enabled
bjrmd said:
I double checked my voltage measurements and they seem correct (compared to a dragonfly red).
The dongle may contain a DAC (like apple lightening). It is possible that with root, ALSA, some of the distortion can be reduced if so. Certainly the voltage is good, impedance great.
Oh and each volume tick is about 2.5 dB.
Addendum - The dongle definitely has a DAC
I have ordered a USB audio pass through cable to see if onboard analog is enabled
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bjrmd when you have a minute can you explain some of the numbers and what they might mean to the layperson. Why is high voltage good and low impedance good.
jawmail1 said:
bjrmd when you have a minute can you explain some of the numbers and what they might mean to the layperson. Why is high voltage good and low impedance good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The max voltage is what limits the overall volume, so if you are driving over the ear cans and need power, this is helpful. Not important for sensitive iem's.
Crosstalk--a mixing of the R and L channels- not intentional. Better crosstalk--more stereo separation.
Impedance- internal resistance of the amplifier--if this is too high, causes frequency response changes depending on the type of iem and the iem impedance.
Thanks for the definitions bjrmd!
A couple of key points:
The dongle is a USB DAC, so basically audio out as supplied by Google is determined by that cheap little item. You could get a better USB DAC like a dragonfly, but it is bigger.
The distortion is based on some sort of driver parameter issue. I think the reason will end up being that the dongle DAC is set for max digital gain which is not optimal (unless needed). The following test shows why:
I used the Dongle on my Pixel orig and Pixel 2 with the Neutron player usb driver and the signal was clean.
This is a tracing, the same on both devices.
This is a dragonfly red, virtually the same:
So, I think the Google designers did not properly design the software, but the hardware is solid. In the meantime, use the Neutron player USB driver and you will have a very clean signal.
bjrmd said:
The max voltage is what limits the overall volume, so if you are driving over the ear cans and need power, this is helpful. Not important for sensitive iem's.
Crosstalk--a mixing of the R and L channels- not intentional. Better crosstalk--more stereo separation.
Impedance- internal resistance of the amplifier--if this is too high, causes frequency response changes depending on the type of iem and the iem impedance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks:good:
Dongle optimization on the old Pixel:
Alsa installed (need root, so can't do on the new Pixel yet).
Dongle card output:
numid=2,iface=MIXER,name='Headphone Playback Switch'
; type=BOOLEAN,access=rw------,values=1
: values=on
numid=3,iface=MIXER,name='Headphone Playback Volume'
; type=INTEGER,access=rw---R--,values=2,min=0,max=175,step=0
: values=18,18
| dBminmax-min=-175.00dB,max=0.00dB
numid=4,iface=MIXER,name='Extension Unit Switch'
; type=BOOLEAN,access=rw------,values=1
: values=off
numid=1,iface=PCM,name='Playback Channel Map'
; type=INTEGER,access=r----R--,values=2,min=0,max=36,step=0
: values=0,0
It seems that the android software defaults the dongle digital gain at max:
This leads to the distortion bands previously seen.
But, if we cut the dongle DAC gain down, and raise the android Volume to net the same(or even a bit higher) voltage:
The bands are gone.
In addition we can get 1 volt out without too much distortion as well:
This is not that difficult to do, but root is needed.
I will try to do some more detailed testing over the weekend, but I wanted to get this up so if someone was on the fence due to audio issues, if you are willing to wait for root and a few mods, this is a reasonable solution.
BTW for 9 bucks the dongle is pretty good with the correct gain settings
do you have test the ldac on google pixel 2 xl ?
is it working? or any change?
Does anyone else think it's a bit ridiculous how large the adapter is? It's huge compared to Apple's.
Thanks for posting this! Would you say this adapter is superior to Apple's lightning adapter? There are a few audiophile sites that have posted measurements for it and say it's great, but I'm not sure how to compare it to this.
Here is one such review: http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-quality.htm
yangyangyanglei said:
do you have test the ldac on google pixel 2 xl ?
is it working? or any change?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See first post.
In order to get digital gain to change in the dongle Dac, root is needed, hence tested the dongle on original Pixel in post 11.
The results should be identical .
Nitemare3219 said:
Does anyone else think it's a bit ridiculous how large the adapter is? It's huge compared to Apple's.
Thanks for posting this! Would you say this adapter is superior to Apple's lightning adapter? There are a few audiophile sites that have posted measurements for it and say it's great, but I'm not sure how to compare it to this.
Here is one such review: http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-quality.htm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The dongle is a reasonable USB DAC, but the stock implementation (at least on my setup) is poor. Google has the DAC digital gain at max, which introduces significant distortion.
To backtrack, the net powerout of this device is dependent on the Android system volume + the digital gain of the DAC itself. So you could have a very low android volume and very high DAC gain (as it is now) or a higher android volume and lower DAC gain (optimal for distortion).
My dragonfly red will behave this way as well in regards to distortion.
So unless you want maximum power out, we want android volume higher and DAC gain lower.
The impedance is lower than Apple's, power out may be higher as well. Not sure about crosstalk but both are probably very good.
Size wise- I couldn't even tell there was circuitry in the dongle-they did a good job IMO in the size.
Bottom line-- the audio out of the new Pixel is basically dependent on what USB DAC used. The stock is fine with the above noted. In fact for all you know, another USB DAC may also default to max gain and distort as well.
bjrmd said:
The dongle is a reasonable USB DAC, but the stock implementation (at least on my setup) is poor. Google has the DAC digital gain at max, which introduces significant distortion.
To backtrack, the net powerout of this device is dependent on the Android system volume + the digital gain of the DAC itself. So you could have a very low android volume and very high DAC gain (as it is now) or a higher android volume and lower DAC gain (optimal for distortion).
My dragonfly red will behave this way as well in regards to distortion.
So unless you want maximum power out, we want android volume higher and DAC gain lower.
The impedance is lower than Apple's, power out may be higher as well. Not sure about crosstalk but both are probably very good.
Size wise- I couldn't even tell there was circuitry in the dongle-they did a good job IMO in the size.
Bottom line-- the audio out of the new Pixel is basically dependent on what USB DAC used. The stock is fine with the above noted. In fact for all you know, another USB DAC may also default to max gain and distort as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the size comparison.
bjrmd said:
I double checked my voltage measurements and they seem correct (compared to a dragonfly red).
The dongle may contain a DAC (like apple lightening). It is possible that with root, ALSA, some of the distortion can be reduced if so. Certainly the voltage is good, impedance great.
Oh and each volume tick is about 2.5 dB.
Addendum - The dongle definitely has a DAC
I have ordered a USB audio pass through cable to see if onboard analog is enabled
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Can you post a link of the pass through cable you are using or reccommend?
---------- Post added at 01:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 AM ----------
I may be misunderstanding the tech involved here but what is the best way to get the best wired audio here? Root tweaking the existing dongle DAC or doing something like a pixel rooted with viper4audio with a pass through dongle?
Jayme Helgerud said:
Can you post a link of the pass through cable you are using or reccommend?
I may be misunderstanding the tech involved here but what is the best way to get the best wired audio here? Root tweaking the existing dongle DAC or doing something like a pixel rooted with viper4audio with a pass through dongle?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A pass through cable would be using the phones DAC/SOC (qualcomm) and analog audio out, just like with a headset jack. Unfortunately, @chdloc did a brief test with a Pixel 2 (not XL) with that type of cable and it did not play. Also, I bet the analog out would have higher impedance , worse crosstalk than a USB device. Either way you need an adapter, so a dongle or pass through.
So far the only way to get wired audio is through using a USB DAC. The dongle is a full fledged USB DAC. It has a fixed sample rate of 48K but otherwise excellent specs(by itself). Even if you wanted a high sample rate DAC, the android driver/audioflinger only puts out 48K.
As mentioned above, the stock gain settings cause distortion (at least in my case). After rooting this will be easy to fix. Right now, Neutron player has a custom USB driver that prevents that distortion (by also keeping the DAC gain lower) - that is what I am using.
Maybe Google will read this and fix the issue in the next update.
I can't give an opinion on Viper.
bjrmd said:
A pass through cable would be using the phones DAC/SOC (qualcomm) and analog audio out, just like with a headset jack. Unfortunately, @chdloc did a brief test with a Pixel 2 (not XL) with that type of cable and it did not play. Also, I bet the analog out would have higher impedance , worse crosstalk than a USB device. Either way you need an adapter, so a dongle or pass through.
So far the only way to get wired audio is through using a USB DAC. The dongle is a full fledged USB DAC. It has a fixed sample rate of 48K but otherwise excellent specs(by itself). Even if you wanted a high sample rate DAC, the android driver/audioflinger only puts out 48K.
As mentioned above, the stock gain settings cause distortion (at least in my case). After rooting this will be easy to fix. Right now, Neutron player has a custom USB driver that prevents that distortion (by also keeping the DAC gain lower) - that is what I am using.
Maybe Google will read this and fix the issue in the next update.
I can't give an opinion on Viper.
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Click to collapse
Will the neutron driver affect music played with other apps? I assume not...only music you've downloaded and are playing in the neutron app. It sounds like (haha) I'm going to be looking forward to some system level driver mods someone (hopefully) develops for a rooted pixel. Thanks for the insights!
Jayme Helgerud said:
Will the neutron driver affect music played with other apps? I assume not...only music you've downloaded and are playing in the neutron app. It sounds like (haha) I'm going to be looking forward to some system level driver mods someone (hopefully) develops for a rooted pixel. Thanks for the insights!
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Click to collapse
Sorry, no - only works in Neutron player.
Once root comes I plan on making something like this but will be much easier since only USB audio needs control. I would like some type of Spl level info as well to save our ears.