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I posted this in another forum, thought I will re-post it here.
I had Ipad2 for 2 weeks and returned it. Once you use android tablet for a week, you can't go back to Ipad 2.
There are lot of reasons to choose android over ipad. Couple of examples:
=> Google maps kicks ass in android. IPad also has google maps, but its crippled - there are no reviews, no 3D view, no rotating using multi-touch, etc..
=> Widgets make a big difference in the 10" screen. You get the see emails, weather, calendar in the main screen, esp. with re-sizable widgets. Switch on the tablet, look at important stuff, move on with your life. In Ipad, you need to search for the three apps in the sea of icons, open one, close, look for next app and so on. There's a sea of difference in usability.
=> Android task bar has short cuts to change lot of settings like brightness and is available without the need to close the app that you are on. Say, you are reading a webpage that has a link to youtube. For reading you may like low brightness, but video with dark background requires more brightness. Steps to change screen brightness in IPad: you need to close the current app, search for settings icon in the sea of app icons, open settings, look for 'screen' settings, open the settings, look for brightness control, change brightness, double tap the hardware button to see the previous app, click it to open where you were. In honeycomb, you just click the task bar icon, change brightness, done. Now, that's usability.
=> Ipad is 4:3, pretty useless for viewing videos/movies. Watching 16:9 movies in Ipad is painful. Netflix works in Ipad (in the works for android, not out yet), but I honestly couldn't use it in Ipad because of the 4:3 screen. It's like watching movie on the old CRT screen.
=> IPad has no flash.
=> IPad has no back button. Every app implements 'back' functionality in their own way. You need to search for the 'back' button in every app. It gets frustrating very fast. Android has a beautiful back button that's available always and behaves exactly the same way in every app. It's magical. Really.
This is just the tip of iceberg. The list goes on and on.
If you are not big on games, then the several thousand apps in the app store means nothing. Because every useful app has a counterpart in honeycomb.
I know this is a android/gtab 10.1 forum so we'll be obviously biased, but what do you think of ipad?
I agree with everything you have said - not to mention the specs are under that of the 10.1, and if the rumors are true around the place there will be an updated model either at the time of the release of the 4G (unlikely), or within a few months after...
I am crossing my fingers and waiting for the rumors to be confirmed because if an updated model with wqxga (retina display competitor) 300+ dpi, plus microSD (if it's not released with the coming model), and possible quad core cpu (although it might just be the exynos 1.2Ghz), comes out within that sort of time frame then bugger me you are already beating the released 'possible' specs of the 2012/2013 release of iPad3!
lol - I am seriously excited about the 10.1. I have no doubt it is going to rock the crap out of the iPad2 for all the reasons you have stated and many more.
I have no concerns about possible build issues with the device as I have an Omnia 2 which is the same high grade plastics they are using in the 10.1 and i have dropped it many many many times - the phone has no issues, no cracking no warping etc it is just like the day i bought it (with some minor scratches of course).
Also people say customer service is crap for Samsung - well that depends on the country you are in and your expectations but let me tell you here in the philippines where customer service for the majority of companies is unheard of, I have had my screen replaced on the Omnia 2 when i had some white dots appear (probably due to me dropping it down some stairs on to concrete), no questions asked, within 3 to 5 days. and that was with a cooked rom that came up with a naughty boot message.
So yeah I don't blame you for trading in your iPad2
I started writing out this long response on all the positive points I see with the iPad 2 over the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Not because I think the iPad 2 is better. Just wanted to point out some of the iPad's strengths because I do think the device is pretty good.
But I like the Galaxy Tab 10.1 more, got worried I might come off wrong and get riped apart like a rabbit before a pack of wolves. Haha.
So instead of the long post, I'll just give a brief short list of what I consider some pros for the iPad 2 over the Galaxy Tab 10.1... and I emphasis I still like the Galaxy Tab 10.1 more and am waiting to buy one.
* Over 50,000 tablet optimized apps. Original iPad came out over a year and has been massively successful. Apple has a huge head start. I think the Android optimized apps still count in the low hundreds right now. And I often see lesser quality with the Android versions. It'll improve, but it's going to take time.
* iOS is more stable. 3.1 has helped, Android Market doesn't bug out on me as much. But there are still stability issues with Honeycomb. I'm a little fearful to install too many apps on my Android tablets because I've had some apps have a negative impact on the entire tablet's performance. Even Motorola's CEO commented recently on this being a concern. iOS on the other hand I have no fear installing everything I see (had over 120 apps on my iPad 1) without fear of performance issues.
* iPad has excellent standby battery life. I can leave the iPad asleep for 24 hours and find it the next day still at 99 or 100% battery life. My Android tablets seem to lose about 25% or more battery life a day just sleeping. I wish more review sites would measure this. I'm curious how much it varies between Android tablets and wouldn't mind seeing more light shed on the issue.
There are other things I could bring up. But generally iPad's strength is the maturity and polishness of it's OS, it's 1 year head start and massive number quality apps.
Still. An exciting thing about Android is this is it's first tablet OS, I think things are moving fast for Android, and we get to be along for the ride. It's only going to keep getting better. And we are already blessed with amazing freedom, flexibility, and customization options. This is what I love about Android.
And I had seriously thought about getting an iPad 2. There are some apps I know I like much more on iOS than Android. But I feel like I'm just giving up way too much control for that. And I think the apps will get better here.
Ravynmagi said:
* iPad has excellent standby battery life. I can leave the iPad asleep for 24 hours and find it the next day still at 99 or 100% battery life. My Android tablets seem to lose about 25% or more battery life a day just sleeping. I wish more review sites would measure this. I'm curious how much it varies between Android tablets and wouldn't mind seeing more light shed on the issue.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, this is weird. Samsung has a bigger battery, but 2 1/2 hours less runtime on the Anandtech review.
Again I agree with everything you said as well and as far as summaries are concerned you are probably summing up the majority opinion on the overall apple or something else debate.
I am an intel person myself because of that very freedom Apple lacks. I love intel because if I want to dual boot, or just feel like blowing my machine away and running pure linux, or windows or whatever even a hacked version of OSX, I can do that. You go apple, you have to use their hardware - while it is pretty sexy etc it is expensive and you can't mix and match the way you can with intel or make your own best of breed monster. If it had of been they didn't customise OSX to only run on apple hardware i probably would have switched to OSX and been laughing - but again they chose to limit their market and for whatever reason maintain the big f you apple sentiment (maybe just in my opinion only )
The same goes for the tablets - with IOS you are stuck with IOS - you can jailbreak it but with more and more difficulty, and gain access to 100,000's of really cool apps and games, it seems to flow a bit better (well at least in the iphone arena) than other OS's etc but at the end of the day you are stuck with IOS and their way of doing things as otherhawkeye said in his/her post.
My biggest dislikes re apple mobile technology - no common connectivity options (micro usb connector), cannot remove the battery and replace it yourself, no microSD, limited to itunes for a lot of things, lack of common options like gps, 3g etc until their customers all complain and then they add one in and then their customers complain some more and they add some more in. Some people like to be ripped off and jerked around and played like the fools apple must think of the majority of people out there... but sorry it's just not to my liking.
I have to give props to Samsung for actually stating once Apple had released iPad2 that they were going to delay the release of their product revamp it and release a better product because he felt (ceo of samsung) that the 10.1v was inadequate! This is a Korean based company and they are known for quality - that is what the Korean's pride themselves on - best quality from clothes, food, appliances, cars etc - you ask a Korean and they will say everything of theirs is better quality than anywhere else from rice to well everything. That's the mindset they have ... so while it may not always be the case in the real world and is a little biased etc, you have a company trying to live up to that ethos and saying while the 10.1v is good and in many ways still better than the competition they can make it better before finally releasing it.
Apple - ummm well just look here and see what has changed from iPad 1 to iPad2 http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-vs-original-ipad-whats-changed this is a YEAR between release dates also....
Remember this is an entirely NEW product yet only a few things have changed. and the cameras they added in are of particularly crap quality according to many reviews. Pleeeease don't tell me that they couldn't have included a better camera, please don't tell me they couldn't include a microSD card, or micro USB or put in the retina display like they did for the iPhone4, or a host of other things that are in smaller devices already. Your probably going to talk quality control and proper lead time for adding in things right - or give other reasons why they don't want to "clutter" the thing with microSD or micro USB etc but ... faf that!
As I have said in my previous post there are already hints that later this year (we're already half way through), that Samsung will more than likely release another version of the same tab with a few extras, if they don't release them along with the 4g version... this is the same product getting revamped for the 2nd time WITHIN the same year! Why? It would be nice to think of it as living up to the ethos but I like to think that it's more that they are sick of Apple releasing inferior products and cleaning up the market with hype and sexiness and they really want to stick it to Apple.....
lol I hope that doesn't come off as apple bashing too much....
Ravynmagi said:
There are other things I could bring up. But generally iPad's strength is the maturity and polishness of it's OS, it's 1 year head start and massive number quality apps.
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I'm not sure about the "more polishness", but its more stable than honeycomb. I think honeycomb is more polished than ios, but it's less stable right now due to the FCs.
About battery life - honeycomb tablets don't have bad battery life. 8-10 hours battery life is not bad. Apple does have couple of more hours of battery life and better standby battery life, but then we are now in the bragging rights territory. If you charge every day and not going on international trips, the extra hour of battery life is not going to matter to most of the tablet buyers.
Same goes for app store. You said you have 120 apps installed in your ipad, average person has 5 to 20. Honeycomb had every app *I* wanted. The quality of third party apps was similar between Ipad and Honeycomb. But YMMV. If a person needs a specialized app that's not available in HC, then they need to stick with Ipad. OTOH, google apps are vastly superior to the ones in Ipad. That was the deciding factor for me.
Is it true that iPhone apps do not scale on the iPad? I am sure I heard this somewhere, but I cannot imagine it's true.
With that said, while there are not many Honeycomb-specific apps, at least most pre-3.0 apps play nice with HC (upscaling for screen size).
I had a brief time (about 3 hours) where I thought the iPad2 would be a better option for me than the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Luckily, I was talked off the ledge. The only thing that had me leaning towards the Pad is tablet-specific apps, but in the end most of my tablet usage is through the browser.
What sealed the deal in my getting the Galaxy Tab 10.1 was the deep integration of Google services. Until iOS5 comes out, there is definitely nothing on the iPad that holds a candles to Google's Android-account management system (not that I'm aware of, but I an ignorant on this subject).
mightymouse2045 said:
Again I agree with everything you said as well and as far as summaries are concerned you are probably summing up the majority opinion on the overall apple or something else debate.
I am an intel person myself because of that very freedom Apple lacks. I love intel because if I want to dual boot, or just feel like blowing my machine away and running pure linux, or windows or whatever even a hacked version of OSX, I can do that. You go apple, you have to use their hardware - while it is pretty sexy etc it is expensive and you can't mix and match the way you can with intel or make your own best of breed monster. If it had of been they didn't customise OSX to only run on apple hardware i probably would have switched to OSX and been laughing - but again they chose to limit their market and for whatever reason maintain the big f you apple sentiment (maybe just in my opinion only )
The same goes for the tablets - with IOS you are stuck with IOS - you can jailbreak it but with more and more difficulty, and gain access to 100,000's of really cool apps and games, it seems to flow a bit better (well at least in the iphone arena) than other OS's etc but at the end of the day you are stuck with IOS and their way of doing things as otherhawkeye said in his/her post.
My biggest dislikes re apple mobile technology - no common connectivity options (micro usb connector), cannot remove the battery and replace it yourself, no microSD, limited to itunes for a lot of things, lack of common options like gps, 3g etc until their customers all complain and then they add one in and then their customers complain some more and they add some more in. Some people like to be ripped off and jerked around and played like the fools apple must think of the majority of people out there... but sorry it's just not to my liking.
I have to give props to Samsung for actually stating once Apple had released iPad2 that they were going to delay the release of their product revamp it and release a better product because he felt (ceo of samsung) that the 10.1v was inadequate! This is a Korean based company and they are known for quality - that is what the Korean's pride themselves on - best quality from clothes, food, appliances, cars etc - you ask a Korean and they will say everything of theirs is better quality than anywhere else from rice to well everything. That's the mindset they have ... so while it may not always be the case in the real world and is a little biased etc, you have a company trying to live up to that ethos and saying while the 10.1v is good and in many ways still better than the competition they can make it better before finally releasing it.
Apple - ummm well just look here and see what has changed from iPad 1 to iPad2 http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-vs-original-ipad-whats-changed this is a YEAR between release dates also....
Remember this is an entirely NEW product yet only a few things have changed. and the cameras they added in are of particularly crap quality according to many reviews. Pleeeease don't tell me that they couldn't have included a better camera, please don't tell me they couldn't include a microSD card, or micro USB or put in the retina display like they did for the iPhone4, or a host of other things that are in smaller devices already. Your probably going to talk quality control and proper lead time for adding in things right - or give other reasons why they don't want to "clutter" the thing with microSD or micro USB etc but ... faf that!
As I have said in my previous post there are already hints that later this year (we're already half way through), that Samsung will more than likely release another version of the same tab with a few extras, if they don't release them along with the 4g version... this is the same product getting revamped for the 2nd time WITHIN the same year! Why? It would be nice to think of it as living up to the ethos but I like to think that it's more that they are sick of Apple releasing inferior products and cleaning up the market with hype and sexiness and they really want to stick it to Apple.....
lol I hope that doesn't come off as apple bashing too much....
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Click to collapse
umm.. you do realize that apple computer run on intel chips, right? saying that you're "an intel person" doesn't really many any sense..
anyway, you say that the ipad sucks because they use proprietary ports, don't have sd, etc. but... the galaxy tab 10.1 doesn't have those things either
ralexand said:
Is it true that iPhone apps do not scale on the iPad? I am sure I heard this somewhere, but I cannot imagine it's true.
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Click to collapse
It's true. iPhone apps run on iPad /w the same resolution (occupy a tiny area in the middle of the tablet) or 2x the resolution (occupy most of the tablet screen, but /w blurry text, etc.). Either way, I found it unusable.
OTOH, many, but not all, phone apps run well in HC. They scale nicely and you would hardly know that they are not designed for HC. Case in point, engadget app or many of the news apps.
smaskell said:
umm.. you do realize that apple computer run on intel chips, right? saying that you're "an intel person" doesn't really many any sense..
anyway, you say that the ipad sucks because they use proprietary ports, don't have sd, etc. but... the galaxy tab 10.1 doesn't have those things either
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lol yes i know they changed over to intel hardware - however OSX only supports their combination of hardware, won't install on other hardware etc unless you get the hacked boot image and then the drivers that are in the 'hacked' OSX support some hardware and not others and the hardware that is supported it varies on either partial support to full support. when i played with it last year i could only get a single gpu working on my dual gpu video card, no wifi support, no 3d effects, multi threading and virtual support and some other issues that I just wasn't willing to accept. They have a kickass OS why don't they release it to the masses - because they want you to buy the hardware as well from them to get more money. It's like the Catholic church - the only path to God is through the church.
The intel man statement was more meant to describe the freedom you have when using intel based hardware, windows and linux OS's compared with if you go OSX and in the past risc based Apple - you need apple hardware. I like open standards, compatibility and choices for my computing experience.
Yes I am aware of the 'potentially' missing microSD port, and the proprietary 30 pin port to USB cable it comes with. You didn't read what I said about possible 2nd revamp and release of another version which would include the microSD along with an even better screen and maybe a quad core later this year?
Look through some other posts about what supercurio is saying about the current gtab 10.1 - transformer has a screen - gtab 10.1's screen is art, and other comments comparing ips (apple) to pls (gtab 10.1).
mightymouse2045 said:
lol yes i know they changed over to intel hardware - however OSX only supports their combination of hardware, won't install on other hardware etc unless you get the hacked boot image and then the drivers that are in the 'hacked' OSX support some hardware and not others and the hardware that is supported it varies on either partial support to full support. when i played with it last year i could only get a single gpu working on my dual gpu video card, no wifi support, no 3d effects, multi threading and virtual support and some other issues that I just wasn't willing to accept. They have a kickass OS why don't they release it to the masses - because they want you to buy the hardware as well from them to get more money. It's like the Catholic church - the only path to God is through the church.
The intel man statement was more meant to describe the freedom you have when using intel based hardware, windows and linux OS's compared with if you go OSX and in the past risc based Apple - you need apple hardware. I like open standards, compatibility and choices for my computing experience.
Yes I am aware of the 'potentially' missing microSD port, and the proprietary 30 pin port to USB cable it comes with. You didn't read what I said about possible 2nd revamp and release of another version which would include the microSD along with an even better screen and maybe a quad core later this year?
Look through some other posts about what supercurio is saying about the current gtab 10.1 - transformer has a screen - gtab 10.1's screen is art, and other comments comparing ips (apple) to pls (gtab 10.1).
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Click to collapse
Yes, of course. I couldn't agree more. Just thought it was a bit of an odd way of putting it haha.
I wan't to buy a Transformer, but I can't find a way to justify the six hundred bucks for the whole package, keyboard and all. What sets an android tablet apart from my Samsung Captivate? This isn't bashing on it at all, I just don't want to buy another android phone with a bigger screen sans the talking functionality. What I would reaaaaally love is to have an android tablet capable of running fully both windows and android. I would be waiting fairly far down the line to get this tablet as I'm currently saving up for a car. If I could get an alternate operating system to make the tablet into a laptop of sorts that would absolutely make the purchase, even though I'll be getting a second and infinitely better laptop for a graduation present the coming year.
tl;dr : I want a transformer but can't justify buying a phone with a bigger screen minus talking capabilities, convince me.
Looks like you don't really need convincing. If you did your research and it's not for you so be it...
If you have more specific questions to figure out if a good fit for your needs don't hesitate to ask!
Joel.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Running Windows 7 on it? Not possible.
What you're asking for, the ability to run dual operating systems on a tablet like this and at this price range is nigh impossible. The only one I know of is the Viewsonic tablet and that was incredibly poor in terms of implementation.
You might as well save your money and get a really good laptop if you're going to get another laptop anyway and demand dual booting.
Maybe you shouldn't try justifying a cost of $600.00 and instead, buy the tablet only at $400.00. This would be your lightweight mobile media consumption device but then again the "mobile" part is almost a misnomer due to the lack of 3g or 4g. Maybe ten years later when the U.S. is covered in public high speed wireless.
At least you can watch your movies, listen to your songs, use the GPS, lounge around on your couch and do other nifty things. This would fill a role you still wouldn't with a humongous Core i5 laptop or something. The point being, spend less on the tablet, spend more on the laptop later and you'll have two devices each with its own role.
Hmm. After doing half a second more research I realize that ubuntu is running on the transformer, That rather makes my day to be honest, and most likely made a sale. If they can get that running anywhere near 100% I'll have a tablet thats easily converted into an ultraportable. However I have concerns about word processing, doing basic things that can translate into using this laptop in relatively simple school situations.
How expandable is the storage?
Is Honeycomb all it's cracked up to be? It looks absolutely awesome to be honest, almost like a PC operating system on a small scale.
How's battery life with the keyboard dock? and does it vary from unit to unit? Serial numbers seem to be an issue.
If i were to buy one what serial number grouping would I want? (if I have a choice)
LIght leaks, how common are they, and is it viable to return for such a problem? Estimate of how many units per... say every 20 units would have light leak issues?
will edit with more ?'s as i can
its a matter of preference, either you really want to get a new gadget and play wit a touch screen or perfectly fine with a netbook/laptop...cant really go wrong either way especially 500 is a nice chunk of money
x3phyr said:
Hmm. After doing half a second more research I realize that ubuntu is running on the transformer, That rather makes my day to be honest, and most likely made a sale. If they can get that running anywhere near 100% I'll have a tablet thats easily converted into an ultraportable. However I have concerns about word processing, doing basic things that can translate into using this laptop in relatively simple school situations.
How expandable is the storage?
Is Honeycomb all it's cracked up to be? It looks absolutely awesome to be honest, almost like a PC operating system on a small scale.
How's battery life with the keyboard dock? and does it vary from unit to unit? Serial numbers seem to be an issue.
If i were to buy one what serial number grouping would I want? (if I have a choice)
LIght leaks, how common are they, and is it viable to return for such a problem? Estimate of how many units per... say every 20 units would have light leak issues?
will edit with more ?'s as i can
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's a big mistake trying to replace a laptop with a tablet. Even a tablet with a keyboard, it's still a 10 inch screen and a tiny keyboard. Word processing just won't be fun. Tablets won't replace laptops. Save that $150 and put it towards a laptop if you don't have one yet.
It supports micro SD cards up to 32GB. You can expand the storage infinitely if you don't mind swapping the micro SD cards.
I'm not a fan of Honeycomb. I think it has quite a few performance and stability issues. I've returned my Honeycomb tablets and am currently waiting on Android 4 coming this fall.
I've had 3 Transformers, all had some backlight bleeding. Though with them all, it was never bad enough that I'd really notice it if I wasn't in a dark room looking at a dark screen.
Transformer is a cool tablet for $400. I'd skip the keyboard.
But if you aren't in a big hurry, I think Android 4.0 this fall should be worth the wait. Honeycomb is Google's rush job to get a tablet OS out to compete against Apple. And it's not that pretty. This fall, besides a new Android, we should also have tablets with better processors. The Tegra 2 in the current tablets doesn't impress me much either.
However if do want something now, and I couldn't blame you for not wanting to wait 3 months... the Transformer is a really good deal.
x3phyr said:
I wan't to buy a Transformer, but I can't find a way to justify the six hundred bucks for the whole package, keyboard and all. What sets an android tablet apart from my Samsung Captivate? This isn't bashing on it at all, I just don't want to buy another android phone with a bigger screen sans the talking functionality. What I would reaaaaally love is to have an android tablet capable of running fully both windows and android. I would be waiting fairly far down the line to get this tablet as I'm currently saving up for a car. If I could get an alternate operating system to make the tablet into a laptop of sorts that would absolutely make the purchase, even though I'll be getting a second and infinitely better laptop for a graduation present the coming year.
tl;dr : I want a transformer but can't justify buying a phone with a bigger screen minus talking capabilities, convince me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In short get a Windows 8 Tablet, if you're so against the TF which is amazing. Also you don't have to buy the keyboard dock right away so then it's only $400 dollars.
Ok, so here's my dilemma. I want a convertible tablet pc. Problem is though, I think all of the ones on the market are poop. They either run android (I don't see the point still) and iOS, or are clunky and rediculously expensive. But I had a extremley bright idea. Buy whatever laptop I like, slap a touchscreen on that *****, and be happy. Keep in mind that as a poor college student with no job, I will probably never be able to afford this
1. Take apart laptop completley, Rip out the green bullcrap.
2. Mod case to be suitable as a convertible...or just look cool.
3. Rverse USB port to face inside
4. Close USB off from the outside
5. Get a USB Touchscreen conversion kit, which im sure come in many different flavors (Capacitive, Multitouch, Resistive), or better yet use a connector designed for computer internals, making #3 and #4 useless.
6. Add 3rd party accelerometer for Poitrait/Landscape orientation
7. Find a suitable hinge (or make one) and replace it
8. Boot laptop, install drivers for touchscreen and accelerometer
9. Pat myself on the back for custom making a tablet PC?
In my opinion the hardest part would be modding the case to be suitable as a convertible tablet, which can't be too hard. I have access to MIG/TIG welders, sheet metal cutters, grinders, ect. and I know people who know how to use them, so working with metal shouldn't be too dificult. In fact, I probably could just build a case myself from scratch. I also have alot of experience with plastic, so that's not a problem although I'd prefer to use metal for structural parts.
Touchscreen conversion kits seem to be all over the internet with a quick google search, and it shouldn't be too hard to find high quality capacitive touchscreen panels.
Walcom Bamboo Stylus because I'm a G
Accelerometers that work with windows I don't know about, but it cant be too hard Amirite? You can find ANYTHING for sale on the internet.
If I do do this however it will probably be in the summer (when I have a job). The only probelm I might have is the internals, seeing as I've never handled computer internals before. My brother did build his computer though, and I have a friend who also builds computers. It dosen't seem too hard compared to the other stuff like modding the case. While the laptop is dissasembled I'd probably put the parts in ziplock bags to keep them away from dirt and debris while I'm not using them. As long as I'm careful I don't thinkim going to mess anything up.
Good idea or no?
Good idea. Just keep in mind that the whole thing would be much heavier than a regular tablet, so holding it in hand would be difficult.
I have seen an EEE PC modded with a touchscreen, but the keyboard part was still there.
Just get a transformer lol...
What is wrong with Android? What is it you need to do that it won't?
My other idea would be to tell you most android devices are capable of running linux too?
Sounds like alot of work..and there are suitable models on the market, but if you wanna do it?
By the time you get around to it I wonder where technology will be...
PS ziplock bags? NO! Get some static bags..ziplocs are crazy static-charged! Honestly though, sounds like you are a good deal away from being able to deconstruct and reconstruct a laptop..the integrated circuits are ridiculously small and fragile..
PPS The hardest part might be actually getting the accelerometer sensors to function..which is where android comes in..you have to actually write some code into your operating system that will recognize and react accordingly withing the right parameters in your code..devs on this sight have problems with accelerometers that otherwise worked on a stock rom on OEM machines, god knows what it would take to get one working on a machine that never intended to have one by design?
That is all
What's old is new again
It's funny we did something similar a few years ago to build PC's into cars and trucks. For that application and at that time it made sense. Today we essentially just make custom docks for COTS tablets so that they integrate with the car.
If you're opposed to Android and other mobile OS's my suggestion is to start looking around craigslist for convertible tablet/laptops like those from HP and Dell or look for a cheap HP slate. I've seen gently used Slates going for around $200-300 and they run windows 8 reasonably well. I've seen convertibles close to that price as well.
Unless you are just dead set on a fabrication project i'd strongly suggest taking advantage of off the shelf hardware and mass production pricing and spend your extra time and money learning how to get the most of of those components.
If you do go ahead with this then weight and cost will be your biggest issues. I think a better twist on this would be to figure out how to make a transformer type of dock for other popular tablets. If you can make them well and make them cheap then sell a few and buy what you really want.
The reason I don't like android is because It's not a desktop OS. I'll be building this tablet-y thing for graphics/image editing, word processing and a little bit of gaming in between and I'm not 100% sure about android graphics programs. I like to keep it simple and use MS Paint, then GIMP if i need a more powerful program. I'm also a windows fanboy and it's what I've been using ever since I was 2... I also like to build things.
I hate the transformer prime. I want a convertible tablet, not a tablet and a little dock thingy...won't serve my purposes.
I didn't know Ziplock bags are staticy by nature. Thanks for the tip.
As far as the accelerometer, I don't know much about them but if it's super difficult I'm probably not going to bother with it. I'll maybe install a switch?
It's hard to beat windows for functionality but you might check out paint.net as a free replacement for paint.
Over all though I get the idea that you're a little in over your head on this.
Sent from my HTC Flyer using XDA App
LexusFman said:
I hate the transformer prime. I want a convertible tablet, not a tablet and a little dock thingy...won't serve my purposes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you seen the Eee Pad Slider?
Also, Adobe photoshop for android = $10
https://market.android.com/details?id=air.com.adobe.pstouch&hl=en
LexusFman said:
The reason I don't like android is because It's not a desktop OS. I'll be building this tablet-y thing for graphics/image editing, word processing and a little bit of gaming in between and I'm not 100% sure about android graphics programs. I like to keep it simple and use MS Paint, then GIMP if i need a more powerful program. I'm also a windows fanboy and it's what I've been using ever since I was 2... I also like to build things.
I hate the transformer prime. I want a convertible tablet, not a tablet and a little dock thingy...won't serve my purposes.
I didn't know Ziplock bags are staticy by nature. Thanks for the tip.
As far as the accelerometer, I don't know much about them but if it's super difficult I'm probably not going to bother with it. I'll maybe install a switch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, I've got photoshop, an office suite, and tons of games, I'd never have to touch a PC again..I am a graphic designer by trade! I can even watch hulu (something not supposed to be capable of on android platforms), I've got a nice stylus and a full qwerty keyboard and mouse- I'm working on the OG transformer not the Prime, as far as I can tell the Prime was pushed too quickly and has issues with all of it's radios due to the metal shell..the TF101 does not have these issues, and the TF700 (basically the prime with the GPS and radios fixed and better resoultion) is available if you don't want to go for the OG transformer.
Seriously sounds like you're trying feverishly to open a can of worms to get a windows tablet when in reality there is no need and windows is given a run for it's money with the new ICS android on the way. Trying to unlock a windows phone after unlocking a whole bunch of Android devices would quickly turn you off of Microsoft as an OS IMO, that's what made me an Android fanboy (I was a windows guy previously, now I'm leaning more and more towards linux/android for their open source code user-friendly programability). But, if you are determined to do something the hard way = the expensive and labor/time-consuming way, no one is going to stop you
Just remember- in the world of technology things are done: Right, Cheap, and/or Fast. BUT, you can only choose two..
I've done this already with a eeePC 700.
1. The resistive touchscreen. You'll need a stylus for that.
2. Typing with a stylus is horrible.
3. It was heavy. Even when it was only 7inch screen. The battery made it heavy. (but I had 9hours of battery life)
4. You couldn't navigate the boot menu (without an external keyboard)
5. Resistive touchscreen is crap for drawing, because you still want to support your hand on the screen while drawing, which you couldn't do.
6. Moving Items around sucked (no drag and drop)
and many more.
I used it in my bed, for browsing. was good enough, until the touchscreen cable snapped. (I didn't have an external keyboard, so I had to open the tablet, connect the keyboard, and navigate the boot menu when I had to)
Hope this helped. Though it was fun to build it and use it, it's not what you would call an 'every day' tablet
romitkin said:
Good idea. Just keep in mind that the whole thing would be much heavier than a regular tablet, so holding it in hand would be difficult.
I have seen an EEE PC modded with a touchscreen, but the keyboard part was still there.
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Click to collapse
I don't think it would be much heavier, in fact I think the idea is perfect for modification of a netbook. It would probably be cheapest. since so much case modding is required and so many enclosure fabrication resources are handy, to put together a frankenstein out of 2 or 3 broken netbooks. Find someone who smashed the screen of one netbook, another one who fried the board of theirs, find a total-loss broken tablet PC (like dropped in lake michigan level of total loss so it will cost pennies) and get the ribbon cable and swivel element from there. I think if this idea is applied to a netbook it would be excellent in size and weight as well as functionality. And with the x86 version of android's progress, it could even be running android like a tablet in screen out mode, and change to webtop mode when its swiveled. Put a netbook mobile broadband card in there, many netbooks have open card expansions under the screw-out panels underneath, if not you would have to choose between wifi or taking the wifi expansion out in favor of a mobile broadband card, and certainly make sure that the card is supported by your wireless provider if you choose to go the mobile broadband route. With verizon or sprint you will most likely have to acquire a mobile broadband card out of a netbook that was originally sold by the company, but be sure to check and make sure the MEID is clean before paying anything for one, if the seller defaulted on a contract they used to acquire it, you might as well flash the thing to cricket or metroPCS and use them as your mobile broadband carrier. With either wifi or mobile broadband, as well as bluetooth, don't forget the antenna! yeah that thing you have to unhook from the other side of the card to take it out, you need that. (oh yeah, bluetooths are included as expansion cards sometimes too, if so you could always remove this to make room for the mobile broadband if you don't use bluetooth. I sure don't and probably wont until they drop the rediculous prices of non-audio bluetooth interfaces to acceptable and competative levels.)
That project actually sounds pretty freakin cool, the type of thing I'd do if I wasn't already swamped with projects. Definetly keep us posted if you decide to go through with it, as I pointed out, if you build it from netbook parts it should be well within your budget, netbooks run much cheaper then notebooks already, but a netbook is comperable in power to most current android devices and thus is suitable to handle most things you'd use a tablet PC for, just not high powered stuff like compiling code or rendering animation or playing 3d online games.
Edit: I'd like to add and point out that as a regular user of an acer netbook running ubuntu, it is wise to refrain from excessive multitasking, the atom had to sacrifice a bit of things we've become accustomed to in notebooks to meet the low power consumption and operating temperature requirements, and a lot of those things are things that mostly benefit multitasking. You will not be happy if you try and run a jillion programs at the same time.
That being said ubuntu's new primary UI, I forget what it's called evolve or something like that, it is an excellent UI for netbooks, perfectly space-optimized, especially in the vertical range which gets filled quick on lil netbook screens. I'm not sold on it and prefer to go with gnome or xfce on desktops and normal-sized notebooks, but it is top-notch on a netbook. I'd also recommend not messing with the accelerometer at first and including it later as it may be a pain to implement correctly in comparison to the limited amount of functionality it brings to the table. I'd rather have something that works personally that I can make additions to then pull my hair out trying to throw everything in the first time right.
---------- Post added at 10:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 AM ----------
Will_nonya said:
It's hard to beat windows for functionality but you might check out paint.net as a free replacement for paint.
Over all though I get the idea that you're a little in over your head on this.
Sent from my HTC Flyer using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have to LMAO @ this comment. If users would ever actually push developers to release for the linux platform, especially hardware manufacturers (which is ridiculous since all they would have to do is release their code open source, or even just parts of their code and the community would do the rest. Doesn't matter much tho, it's mostly crappy chinese hardware that isn't supported by linux, and their HQs more then likely don't speak enough english to be able to request anything, beleive me I've tried to contact MSI before.... most hardware worth running is fully supported tho)
But point is, I feel like it is extremely cumbersome whenever I'm forced to use windows, apart from trying to use unsupported hardware or cross-platform software (although wine and mono have made GIGANTIC leaps in usability). I pretty much never have to deal with drivers, updates to all software happens automatically, it's become so self-maintaining that I'm ashamed of how lazy of a linux user I've become. When I actually do have to do something even remotely advanced I have to think for a minute about it. Usually the only thing that really requires a lot of getting under the hood that I ever have to do is when I set up my audio-production setups which is even a lot easier now that they have dedicated repositories for them, and when set up correctly the real time preemptable kernel will run circles around any windows or OSX setup latency-wise. I was pulling lower latency with computers recording with ardour, and sequencing/synthesizing/sampling with seq24 amSynth, and qsampler, 5 years older then any PC I would test it against running windows with Reason and Protools. the Jack audio drivers that allowed software to plug audio inbetween applications directly across the PCM was just icing on the cake.
Windows is good software, but linux has certainly surpassed it by leaps and bounds. Windows still rules for gaming because of directX and industry unwillingness to port to linux, but the period of time right after Microsoft declared it was removing directX support from XP on further releases saw linux catch up with windows for a little while as they rushed wine to support the newest directX making it actually possible to actually run new releases under windowsXP even. Curses microsoft, foiled again! And off topic, but furthermore, I can't believe people still pay so much money for that god damn talking paper clip, openoffice.org ftw!
As I said windows isn't bad software, I said before in these forums actually that if windows ran a microsoft controlled repository to distribute all software for windows through, like linux, it would have similarly non-existant problems with viruses. Having people go around the wild-west of the internet downloading and installing programs from there without even thinking about it is just asking for the malware and adware problems windows experiences. Windows is good software, linux is just much better software.
Too complicated...
On a second thought how about moding a cheap Tablet with better parts. Is it even possible like are the parts such as a processor, camera, or the radio chip available for tablets and phones.
Why dnt you get a transformer?
In my opinion, it would just be better to settle for an table, prices are gonna drop really soon. The market for Eee PC's alike has diminished since the release of the ipad.
This is a wonderful opinion. The things mentioned are unanimous and needs to be appreciated by everyone.
A lot of things to doo, better start with a simple tablet and try to upgrade it if possible... dont know if its possible btw.
I did something almost like this.
Took apart a dirt cheap acer aspire one with a small 8 GB SDD.
Small 280 Atom 1.6GHz cpu and cheap intel GMA gpu.
Inverted the screen
Added a extra 512MB ram and inserted a 16GB SD card.
My battery however did not stand up to the task so i ordered a 9 cell pack.
It ran quite stable with 6 days standby or 12hours of heavy usage.
The lack of a accelerometer however made it a pain for quite a few games.
But i did have a vague plan to get value's from it into the android OS using a AVR and a few other cheap parts.
Many manufacturers still produce cheap atom notebooks like these.
But hardware specs have gotten better and better, so you should be able to pick one up for cheap still.
http://www.axiotron.com
Soooo 2008...
I'm doing this with an old pentium 3 thinkbook. I know its not really that great of a computer but it at least redeems it as a usable device.
sounds interesting will looking forward for it....
Good Idea!
After realizing that I dont need a powerful Core i3, i5, or i7 laptop for my daily use, but do need long battery life similar to the tf700 in a sleek chassis that's preferably fanless, I've been trying to find a good looking, Clover Trail Atom 11"-13" Windows 8 generation laptop/netbook, but it seems that everything is a hybrid I got excited when I saw the Lenovo IdeaPad 11", but to my dismay, it's running RT via ARM. Such a missed opportunity. Recalling my time with the Asus Transformer Infinifty TF700, and how that was a great piece of hardware (minus the flimsy dock + Asus' bugs) I've decided to fold and get a hybrid + a large DropBox account. After looking through the Googles, and YouTubes, it seems that my best bet would be the TF810. Only issue I'm having is I live in the states. Another issue is it's price. It's waaaay too close to a Acer S7 11" variant which was what I originally planned on buying, if that's what I'd have to pay then I'd pay it. From what I've seen and read, the new Atom processors
run Windows 8 relatively flawlessly. I do not plan on playing games on it at all.
My purposes for a laptop are:
YouTube, Netflix, Hulu+, HBOgo
Light Image editing via GIMP
Google Docs and Office Suit for on the go doc editing
(hence the need for long battery)
RSS reading when not using my iPad mini
Google Chrome + extensions
LTE would be a plus, but I can tether.
What are your suggestions for me?
Thanks for your time.
Your needs and observations are similar to my ones.
I have question though, and how is you being in USA an issue in all this?
From what I know at least you will get better price on your device than we in Europe
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Have you considered the Acer W510? From what I understand from your post, it should fit right in your pocket
Now one thing the build quality isn't on pair with say an ipad or a surface tablet, but then again its quite cheap, and personally I really like it
//M
W510 would be okay if you just wanted a tablet without a keyboard. The keyboard doesn't seem that good, and keyboards on a 10 inch tablet are too cramped. And if I was just getting a tablet, the upcoming ASUS ME400 looks a lot better.
I like the Samsung 500T, it's what I have. It's downside is the glossy plastic back is a bit slippery and no secondary battery. It's upsides is a full sized USB port on the tablet, front facing speakers (which are a kinda weak at times though), and a pen with a convenient storage slot. Also Samsung seems to be doing pretty well so far with driver updates.
Another possibility I like is the Lenovo Lynx. This huge downside to this one seems to be the 32GB limit on the micro SD slot (I'm kind of hoping this is a mistake in the specs, seems odd to not support SDXC), also has no pen. The upside is the quality looks really nice and Lenovo usually has great keyboards.
m.klinge said:
Have you considered the Acer W510? From what I understand from your post, it should fit right in your pocket
Now one thing the build quality isn't on pair with say an ipad or a surface tablet, but then again its quite cheap, and personally I really like it
//M
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did. 10" is just not enough for work. 11-12" seems to be the best compromise between fun/mobility/tablet itself usability and work mode in laptop look (I don't know if what I just said makes any sense).
Since I want to use this device for watching films I am glad they are limited to 1366x768 res.
Netflix, Hulu+, HBO Go and 720 p mkv dont look that good on Full HD screen.
Also Atom would struggle even more with higher res and battery life would be shorter.
My takeaway from CES 2013 reports is that the second wave of Win8 toys will be better than the first (2012) wave in every way: availability/functionality/performance/price. These should start dribbling out in spring, and pricing will come down for back-to-school in Aug, perhaps sooner. I would not consider a 1st-gen Win8 device at this point, not unless there's a substantial discount--that includes the Surface Pro. Of course, it depends on whether you can wait.
My second takeaway from CES is that RT is on life support. Virtually all of the CES roll-out was about x86. Big vendors like Samsung and HP won't have RT models. Whether RT dies or not will depend on MS' handling of it, which has been spectacularly incompetent thus far. I think it will live on, if only because MS will need ARM to compete against Android at the $200-300 price points. But as of now, RT has no value proposition to speak of.
It's not only the hardware that is v1.0. Win8 is a v1.0 as well, and will take time to get over the teething issues. I fully expect a point upgrade (or SP) by summer at latest, in time for back-to-school. I think it'll be a point upgrade, as Windows 8 has a stigma attached in the eyes of the public, and a 8.1 or 8.5 is the simplest PR method to convey improvements.
Succinctly, Win8 RTM (and associated hardware) in 2012 was basically a second public beta. The real launch will be by Q3 and Q4 2013. Whatever you buy today will be substantially outmoded by year-end, so I would stay away from anything too expensive. Think stopgap.
e.mote said:
My takeaway from CES 2013 reports is that the second wave of Win8 toys will be better than the first (2012) wave in every way: availability/functionality/performance/price.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't it the usually way with everything in IT/electronic world?
I can also bet that 3rd generation will be better than the 2nd and in some cases we might see it by the end of this year...?
I don't mind W8 issues and hardware that will be "old" in few months as long as it will do what I need it to do.
I also would not be so harsh with Windows 8. Either they run out of time or inconsistency between Modern Ui and Destkop mode was not that visible for those who created system as they worked with it every single day + they are advanced user not "Mr Joe Public".
They need small SP (mostly for essential programs like Mail or IE) so that they can work "as one" in both modes - sort of like Chrome today.
Second thing is inconsistency between operations in two modes. Right click on the mouse should show more similar functions (like lack of properties in modern ui).
Anyway - for me question is - which hybrid with screen of 11" will be/is the best and will last longest.
As much as I am scared of Asus Warranty service in Poland it look like TF810 is the best choice.
I just bought 128GB SSD for W8 in my desktop (old C2Q machine) and the only thing that bothers me is size of "HD" (64GB) in those devices... seems to me that W8 Pro truly needs 120/128GB + sd extension for nice, long-haul relation ship.
I agree with e.mote.
First generations tend to be the most rough. It's called the bleeding edge of technology for a good reason. Your second to third generation they usually have the design issues mostly figured out, the drivers issues resolved, and it's mostly about performance. But this first generation, there are lots of mistakes being made, lessons to be learned, and problems yet to be fixed. The first generation is the beta test for the die hards willing to pay for it.
I don't mind - just want to get the best device out of those bad ones
I need it for almost everyday work - I write a lot an I need something like that - at the same time ultrabooks are to big, laptop blow hot air... so... hybrid with atom looks like a best choice...
And will allow me to keep ipad "evening comfort"
>Isn't it the usually way with everything in IT/electronic world?
It's the old chestnut: Buy whenever you want, because tech will always get cheaper/better. But as savvy shoppers know, product releases are seasonal, and certain times are better than others to buy things. As well, veteran users of Microsoft products know that MS v1.0 is not where you want to be.
>I can also bet that 3rd generation will be better than the 2nd and in some cases we might see it by the end of this year...?
That's an interesting remark, as the usual PC cycle is annual, but recently we've seen multiple product intros within the same year, eg the iPad 3 & 4 last year. That's due to the quickened pace of competition n a wide-open market. Then, all the more reason not to buy into a v1.0 if possible, because a v2.0 is only a few months off. That's where the biggest functionality jump lies. 2.0->3.0 is usually more incremental.
>Anyway - for me question is - which hybrid with screen of 11" will be/is the best and will last longest.
Your selection will be broader come spring/summer, as opposed to the handful available at this point. This is the worst time of the year to buy new PC gear. As said, it depends on whether you can wait.
There is also the larger question of whether hybrid as a category will fly, or will it suffer from the neither-fish-nor-fowl syndrome. There haven't been enough models out yet to judge, but we'll find out this year. Surface Pro will be a bellwether.
For now I will wait since the only device in Polish shops is (are, as there are two) Ativ Tabs.
I will wait until I can compare them (touch them) in the shops and than decide.
I definitely have get device before summer as I will not be able to work away from home
Since I do not think 2nd gen will be out till summer I may get one now.
If W8 will be slow and if 1st gen hybrids with W8 will be slow I don't think manufacturers will rush with 2nd gen.
Atom hybrids are supposed to replace netbooks but not with this price level, especially that we have the likes of Asus X202 (small laptop with touch screen) that are much cheaper.
I guess we will see some premiers in autumn, lots of marketing talk, shows, etc... but it will take some time before they will actually get to the shops. Few manufacturers will make it in time for X-mass but again it will be worth to wait until all of them are in the shops.
This way I would never buy anything as 3rd gen would be "right behind the corner" .
If it will have nice screen, keyboard to write and will play movies + no fan and log battery life I can have it now.
It will be way better than Android Transformers
We all love the Nook but it's getting kind of old in the tooth.
Ok, the Glow4 (7.8") finally upped its game to 1 GB RAM, but that was kind of necessary.
It also added Bluetooth, something that could have been done cheaply and easily to earlier models.
Although I'm no fan of using the latest and greatest Android version, 4.4.2 is getting a bit old.
I understand that this is a tough business where every little part on the BOM (bill of materials) will hurt you.
Still, using single core processor is so yesterday. A Raspberry Pi Zero has quad core for $10-15.
To my mind a 6" 300 DPI reader is about optimal for flowing text reading.
For frequent or work PDF reading I'd want a 10" 300 DPI reader instead of high power reading glasses.
The 8" reader seems to fall uncomfortably in the middle.
The Kobos are Linux based, not Android.
Onyx has some decent choices in their (confusedly similar) product palette.
The older stuff has Android 4.4, the newer stuff Android 9.0
They have quad core and even octa core.
The "Poke 2" looks pretty nice for a 6", but why did they have to add the silver styling?
https://onyxboox.com/boox_poke2
(Oh, well, some sandpaper and a can of black spray paint would fix that.)
As I am in love with the Aard dictionary, my NST has been simply wonderful. But I understand Kobo no longer support an SD card. Where to now?
Same boat. I just got rid of my GLP BNRV510. Hated the light grey, small dictionary font. Also reading PDF seemed to convert those documents to oversized images. My NSTw/GL was awesome. I was going to upgrade to the new NGLP7.8 but the specs and issues with overheating are a turn off. Also I have read reviews stating that you can't side load books anymore? This may also apply to the GLP BNRV510 with the latest firmware update too. Which eReader now?
The Glow2 (BNRV510) is my main read.
If I have to read a PDF, I read it in landscape at two "chunks" a page.
I wouldn't think that B&N would try to lock down sideloads and I don't anticipate it would be hard to defeat.
I hope not but I understand the arguments for your question. To be honest NST as it was not my first choice (first choice was some Sony model) but I love it now. Last time I checked Kobo Aura looked nice but that was long ago and I do not know how things look now on the market.
Recently I was scrubbing my head around this issue. How I see the problem with NST? Well B&N locked out anything and everything humanly possible to prevent users doing something they did not wanted them to do. Devs unlock most of the obstacles out of protest or because of challenge ahead. As it runs ancient version of Android apps are scarce and disappearing fast. Writing an app dedicated for NST might be an act of love toward hardware base made by dedicated fanatic but we can assume there are not to many such individuals around today as Rennate said Nook is old.
So without further ado there are few roads as I see that could be taken if NST is to continue ahead.
1. Upgrades to Android version as far and much its hardware allows and using slightly more up to date apps for it (like CM11 approach running from SD card allows).
2. As Android is just an overlay on Linux leave it as is for B&N sake and good sleep but make some dual boot solution that will actually allow us to boot Linux (something in the line of Ubuntu for devices but not exactly so because as far as I remember that work only for versions of Android above 4) as that could give user maximum possible ability to customize it for his/her use.
3. Just say bye to B&N and build new NST OS from scratch be it Linux or another version of Android as that might be easier due to a clean slate/paper ahead and being less bound to a obstacles made by B&N.
4. It might be possible to create also dual profile on the current NST OS but given its restrictions that might not be of some great use - (B&N profile and user profile). What other forum members think about it?
P.S. I did not want to create separate thread about this and this thread seemed to fit in the general idea of talk about it. I hope Rennate wont mind.
Nah, I don't mind.
I use the same reader app on my Glow2 and everything else, including my $70 Walmart Onn 8" tablet.
Even a cheap-o (single CPU) tablet has 2G vs the Glow2's 0.5G
For better or worse, people like the Android ecosystem as a way to make apps.
Of course, Google & Co are working on making everything ginormous and expensive.
(And adding even more pointless animations.)
It's always a question of how much work you want to put in to fight annoying things.
Renate NST said:
Nah, I don't mind.
I use the same reader app on my Glow2 and everything else, including my $70 Walmart Onn 8" tablet.
Even a cheap-o (single CPU) tablet has 2G vs the Glow2's 0.5G
For better or worse, people like the Android ecosystem as a way to make apps.
Of course, Google & Co are working on making everything ginormous and expensive.
(And adding even more pointless animations.)
It's always a question of how much work you want to put in to fight annoying things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am glad that you do not mind and find this discussion still within topic you started.
As always you hit problem in the head with much less words then me. I have always wondered what are the limits of hardware requirements needed (minimum) for some tasks/programs to run reliably. And we see that people test those boundaries each day.
You are correct that Android had given people app making opportunities. Sadly recent trend is to take away that from us on old devices as this one. I agree that "awww look its so shiny and buzzing" might look nice but regarding information value its pretty much crap (no way to put it politely sorry). Information is what the people using books/ebooks find to have some merit and it is in the form of text, graph, still picture mostly. I accept that sometimes video can be better tool for presenting certain information but general trend is not in that direction. Information in any shape and form I will accept gladly. Sad truth is that today we have to duck and fight against flash advertising and eye candy web UI of very little value and dubious quality.
I have some doubts what would be the most likely way to continue that is why I made that post. If it was my thread I would make a poll but even here I am willing to hear what is your opinion? Amongst four options I wrote up what would you most likely choose as a way forward? Also if possible please explain why.
1) I think doing an upgrade of Android version on an older device is a bunch of work and hardly justified.
2) I'm not a fan of dual boot. I like to keep things simple. Especially on my main reading device where I just want to pick it up and read.
Android "Linux" has quite a few different things than normal Linux. If you want Linux, get a Kobo.
3) Porting something new to the NST is a lot of work. See #1
4) I don't see the necessity of dividing profiles. I also don't understand what you're looking for.
Ok, I'm a fan of the NST, but it's had its day. The Glows have better resolution and backlight.
You get your choice of capacitive (Glow2) or IR (Glow3) touch screen.
The Android 4.4.2 on the Glows is not so bad yet. (The NST Android 2.1 makes life difficult.)
I think more memory, Bluetooth and a better processor would be on my wish list (in order).
Yes, the Glow4 has Bluetooth.
With enough effort you can fix any little technical thing in life that annoys you.
(I just spend this morning grinding and filing down a piece on my brand new guitar because I couldn't stand the design.)
It's a question of time and also how many people your effort would help.
I think an Onyx Boox is in my future, but I wish they didn't have so many silly models.
It's funny, I still use my original Nook Simple Touch, but a few times a year I find myself curious and looking to see if there's a perfect e-reader out yet for me to upgrade to. In the end it always just seems like nothing is really so much better that I really want to buy it, though.
In particular, page refreshes and overall responsiveness, which are the main things I'd like to be better, still just haven't improved enough on affordable e-readers, in my opinion. A backlight would be kinda cool, but hardly seems like a big deal since personally I'm still pretty used to reading real books, which obviously don't have built in lighting either. I guess a higher density screen might be nice, but I can't say I really notice it on my NST. Newer Android? Maybe, though I've really always been able to find an app that does what I need and works on the NST even with Android 2.1, so I'm not sure what the advantage would be.
I'm a pretty light user of my Nook, though, I guess. Most of the time I'm just reading epubs or sometimes pdfs (scientific papers, which are usually published as double columns, so they work just fine on the NST screen), plus the occasional word games or round of picross here and there. Someday I'm sure I'll upgrade to a new reader, but I think it's gonna be a while at the rate the technology has been improving.
You have stated all valid points here. I understand them and agree to most. Maybe I should explain in more details my points.
I use NST as is. Still restrictions imposed on user by B&N are frustrating sometimes. I mentioned upgrading Android on the device only because its own base is abandoning 2.1 and cutting of access to application made for this version. I have nothing against sideloading apps but if the source to such apps is going to dry out it might be a time for a change. Theoretically with slight upgrade of Linux kernel on it upgrade to gingerbread/honeycomb looks doable. Is it worth the effort is a valid question and that is exactly what I am asking for opinion here.
I am mostly using an OS from that Redmond firm. Although I want to learn and use Linux more I am certainly not looking into using it on e-reader despite it is possible to do on Kobo. Point of dual boot would be to leave B&N stuff as is and do on Linux what you like. At least on Linux you would not be that easily cutoff from apps you want/need. Again looks doable but I am not sure if it is recommendable. Reason for me to considering this is that more and more I read about trying to write/rewrite an apps for this device. Even I have started something similar to porting Linux program to Android and being frustrated by next to nill progress so far started to wonder am I doing it backward and should I run Linux on NST and program in the environment it was written for.
I am surprised Renate is not for whole new OS because the way I see the things she is already halfway there with all the apps she wrote for NST. . I know OS is another matter but let's face it it was half baked product to begin with. I mean Phone.apk really? On a device without sound support! And that app control volume? Man B&N really had shoestring budget for software developer and had us use port of some phone OS instead writing dedicated stuff.
I find multiple profile least advised on such low power device but I could see its merit here and there. I have a cousin which would be happy if she had kids profile on its phone as that would prevent paying triple digit roaming charges. NST most likely do not have the power to pull of multiple profiles although in theory something like that could be made even for Eclare in some crumbly way.
NST have resolution just above low printing and we love it. If some device could achieve 300dpi and have larger screen A4 size preferably with A5 being minimum that would be awesome. There are few device on market Remarkable and Sony with 10 and 13.3 inch screen but they cost still an arm and a leg. Although they shifted concept more toward notebook/sketchbook I have no problem with that but e-book support is next to nothing PDF only if I remember well. I am old and I like to use "pen" on "paper". I will look about other device mentioned. Aura H2O did caught my eye once to be honest.
Now I hope you can see my points more clearly. I find this discussion fruitful. Even if we do nothing we at least have fresh input from others to tickle little gray cells.
As far as upgrades go, upgrading to anything less than Lollipop (5.0) is pretty pointless.
That's already five years old as it is.
As bloat is a given, you're always going to need more memory and a faster processor.
If you want to learn about Linux a Raspberry Pi is certainly an economical solution.
For ~$15 you can get a Raspberry Pi ZeroW.
Android *nix deviates a lot from Linux but mostly in system and startup issues.
You can cross-compile C programs on your Windows box using the the Android NDK and run them in the command line on your Nook.
You won't have direct access to the screen unless you want to write to /dev/graphics/fb0 yourself.
If you don't want the Android layer running at that time you can just turn it on and off with "stop" and "start".
You might try to get into writing regular Java (or Kotlin, but don't get me going on that) applications.
There is something to be said for having your own app that runs on both your phone and your Nook.
There's a lot of convenience in having whatever you're looking for on whatever device you have at the moment.
I always though that backlights were pointless, but I've learned to love them.
If you have copier paper a lot of it is 92% reflective.
The white in eInk is a lot grayer than that.
I always keep my backlight on, but only to the point that it makes up for the gray tint to make it white.
Looking at it you really don't get the impression that it is glowing.
I have stumbled on web page of a project to port some 4+ Android version on NST which pretty much surprised me. Can not remember was it ICS or JB and hell Kitkat would be awesome for device that old. I believe that for that they must abandon B&N stuff almost completely unless they somehow ported it back from Glow versions? And counting in size expected I bet that they reformatted partitions on the device to make it happen. Now will that stick together or fall apart spontaneously is another question. I remember that on xda that somewhere was a thread about disabling OTA from B&N that could brake such upgrade but since they no longer support NST we should not worry about this. I wonder why did you said Lollipop as minimum choice? Do you consider it as minimum acceptable Android version or maximum that NST could possibly run?
As far as Linux go nah I will just play with old laptop instead. Although I caught myself looking to buy present for nephews in electronic realm. Arduino or Pie? aye there is the rub...
I didn't program anything reasonable for a long time. Therefore I am more than rusty in that field. Although I believesome Python or lua script I could manage if enough effort is put on my side.Julia look to me as a programming language that shows some promise to the future from old man perspective. Certainly none of those are useful to porting anything to Android and NST. For the moment I cut my appetite back and will look into how I can backup NST and make virtual image out of it to run it in Virtual box. There I hope to try to learn how things work on Android an play/apply changes in the sand boxed environment. If I break something no harm done just delete virtual drive and start again. I don't want to brick my only NST. Maybe I should buy used one for latter to as I see lot of UK used one have hit the market after B&N closed in UK.
I hate Java from reasons unwilling to disclose or as you said let's not start about that. Idea behind it is fine. Sadly it is lot to be desired on the implementation side. I totally understand that Java might give some benefits especially if we count in the already existing base of programs written on Java. Have a friend who learn and use Java but I personally never manage to overcome my personal detest of it.
Regarding backlight... I never saw Glow. Is there true backlight in like shining through panel? Or did they made something in line of those book lights for real books? I think that could work for capacitive screen but not so much so for IR like NST have. That should not glow much I think and could be regulated in illumination and colour.
The NST has 256M RAM, the Glow2/3 has 512M, the Glow4 has 1G, my $40 phone has 2G.
The $60 Kobo I have has only 256M, but it just runs Linux.
I couldn't be bothered to update my NST even if you handed me an image on a platter.
ebay has the Glow4 (open box) for $130.
I wouldn't even try to update that to a newer version, too much work.
Since this thread started the Boox Poke3 6" reader has come out.
It has Android 10, 8 CPUs, 2G RAM, Bluetooth and lists for $190.
That's a heck of a lot more of a device than the Glow3 for $120.
It also doesn't have the ugly styling of the Poke2.
https://www.boox.com/poke3/
Hmm, currently not in the US warehouse.
I'm a big fan of Arduino and RPi, but it gets complicated.
An adult friend bought an Arduino, hooked up an LCD and a thermometer, loaded the sketch.
It worked. They got bored. End of the story.
I don't know what the solution is. You make it too easy, they get bored. You make it too hard, they get frustrated.
I'm not a fan of the whole Arduino infrastructure and the Processing language. I prefer just AVR8. But I am "old skool".
I use RPi a lot, but I've only seen the desktop version about once.
I use headless and also digital signage without X Windows or desktop.
The Glow2 has single color edge lit backlight, The Glow3/4 uses dual color (blending) edge lit backlight.
If you hold them sighting down the face of the screen at a very low angle you can tell there are discreet LEDs.
(It's nothing you could ever see in normal usage.)
I checked Boox first time you mentioned it. Impressive progress I must say. Paradox is that as I understand newer Android versions are more optimized to be run even on underpowered devices but I agree that NST is both old and underpowered. Still even you mentioned that Kobo has same low memory but still running successfully Linux only environment. That speaks a lot in Linux favor regarding resource management and use. Yes there are slim chances someone cook something up for NST and even then people will just buy new device that is several times better. You wouldn't believe but B&N readers are hard to find here. I had to ask a friend to bring me the one from Middle East because it was available there so go figure.
Thanks for the opinion about Arduino vs RPi. I think you might be right. Kids nowadays will be interested to program more than to assemble something and experiment. Its a shame because I think they could learn more about physics by fiddling with Arduino.
Thanks for explaining me or rather confirming how light on Glow device is made. I am curious how they sorted out possible interference of lighting with IR touchscreen but I guess they somehow used non overlapping LEDs for those two separate things or passthrough IR only filters on IR detector side. In theory even some simple software calibration could work for that but I am also an "old skool" and wouldn't choose that as my way had I have gotten the task to build something of this kind. I might rig me some "lights" for old fashioned hardcopy books. Not that I can't buy it online but I want to engage my fingers a little.
If you haven't played with it yet, the Touch-1.0.apk (in the sig) works on the NST and will show you how/where the beams of IR go.
It can be helpful to see where dirt or distortion of the bezel is making it difficult for touches to be registered correctly.
Since the party seems to be going into a topic of what next best e-reader should be maybe we could exchange opinions about certain things available as in are they necessary or good enough at this moment. For example Boox is offering a model that can show ebooks as black and white or I presume as 4 color "print". As B&W it present it as 300dpi which is on par with printed books and man can not ask for more in my opinion. Alas when it present 4 color "print" it is meager 100dpi that could mean even NST just blows it out of scene. So my vote on color e-reader is still no. If it ever reach 150dpi it will become a thing to consider but right now it is still under acceptable performance from mine point of view.
Do you consider making notes on a device important? I am asking because I have mentioned ReMarkable and Sony DPT (which is gone now). Sony again made good device only to withdraw from the market at the end. While I understand that in the e-reader case as Amazon blow them out securing the better library this time I am afraid it is Sony's own fault. There exist few rebranded models of hardware Sony used with seemingly better software Fujitsu Quadreno and Mooink Pro. Mooink support PDF, epub, docs and text and offers a software for file conversion and DRM management. There are few annoying things. Almost none have microSD card option now. It is replaced with cloud storage or printing. And I personally like having pen but I find being robbed when they sell it separately and with replaceable tips because they made those to wear out. Cost is way to high despite larger screen.
I'm not clear on what you mean with "4 color".
The only thing that I can see on the website is a way to save your scribbles to an external file where you can set the color saved (but not viewed) on the device.
If you've ever seen a store white/red/black eInk shelf label update you'll know that that's only useful for things that change once a day.
I don't look too closely at the reader software itself since I'll probably just use my own.
I hate the sort of pictograph selection of small, medium, large font.
What if I want 5% larger than medium?
There's always a bit of conflict between SD card and waterproof.
I figure 32 GB fixed storage is large enough for me.
There's always a big tossup what is the correct mix of devices, phone, ereader, tablet, tablet with pen, tablet with keyboard, laptop, desktop?
I've never owned a personal laptop, never seen the sense (for me).
Rarely do I use a tablet or a phone with a BT keyboard when I want to do some sort of bulk inputting or fleshing out an idea or transcribing lyrics.
I kind of like digitizers, but never found a way that the utility exceeds the space they take.
Onyx Boox Poke 2 Color is for example device able to reproduce color. Yet is it worth buying?
Yes I understand your choice to use custom reader software. File support seems to have always been a problem and it just went worse from there.
Yes waterproof device shouldn't have SD card. I have mean more in a sense of having the ability to root, backup and thinker with the device.
SJT75 said:
Onyx Boox Poke 2 Color is for example device able to reproduce color.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The product selection of Onyx or Boox or Onyx Boox has always confused the heck out of me.
Currently on https://www.boox.com/allproducts/ there is no indication of anything color.
Moreover, the "About Us" speaks of "We focus on E Ink ( ePaper) devices only. "
But I do remember seeing something previously on the website that spoke of color.