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If this is the wrong place for this thread sorry but I could see a forum for these devices.
I just ordered the Archos 101 Internet Tablet 16 GB. It was a toss up between that tablet and the Viewsonic G-Tab. The lighter weight and form factor of the Archos, as well as the fact they were actually in stock and cheaper then the Viewsonic made me end up with one of those.
Has anyone started playing with these devices yet to see if they can be rooted, custom recoveried, or ROM'd yet? I'd love to get Cyanogen 2.2 or a lightweight 2.2 build on this device. Thanks!
Permanent root is still being worked on. Don't plan on seeing Cyanogen on them (at least I haven't heard anything about the Cyanogen team coming up with anything). Once permanent root comes (after the 2.2 update), then custom ROMs will be coming down the pipe.
z4root works for temp root right now, and hopefully perm root soon. If you apply the current 2.2 you will want z4root and SetCpu (search XDA) to get your CPU clock speeds back to 1 GHz.
There are some internal 2.2 fixes coming in the next firmware from Archos that should stabilize things a bit and *hopefully* enable hardware acceleration in Flash. Once that firmware is out we should be at a decent starting point for custom development.
"and *hopefully* enable hardware acceleration in Flash"
It is officially stated by Archos that the hardwareaccelerated Flash is there and just needs confirmation by adobe.
fzelle said:
It is officially stated by Archos that the hardwareaccelerated Flash is there and just needs confirmation by adobe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure about you, but the whole process of even getting my A101 wound up being a I'll believe it when I see it affair. I trust the better (working) Flash is coming, but until I see the firmware I will continue to hope.
Hexidecimal said:
Has anyone started playing with these devices yet to see if they can be rooted, custom recoveried, or ROM'd yet? I'd love to get Cyanogen 2.2 or a lightweight 2.2 build on this device. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an A70. It's basically the 101 with a 7" screen, so they are the same. I was hesitant to be too exited about it when I decided to order. I had never owned an Archos. In fact, I had never even heard of them.
Now that I actually have my A70, I am very pleased with it. It is fast and very responsive. And the build quality is quite high. On par with Apple even. (please don't start a flame war over this, it's just my opinion).
The real thing that has me exited is that, once this baby gets rooted, it's gonna be so frickin awesome. I don't know about Cyan, but I think there will be some great Roms for it coming down the pipe. After all, there are only a few viable Android tablets out there for a while (the Gtab, Galaxy and Archos), so devs will probably focus their talents on those. It's not like the phone market where you have 50 different platforms to choose from.
Just my .02 cents. I hope you enjoy your A101.
Archos 101: 'Lag' reinvented
I have a Archos 101 8Gb since 2 weeks.
I also own a Samsung Galaxy S, getting rid of 'lag' on the Galaxy S is a big thing in the Galaxy S forums. But compared to a Archos 101, the Galaxy S merely hesitates a bit, while the Archos frequently has to be resurrected from the dead it seems. There is plenty of room for serious improvement, at this moment it doesn't come close to the performance of a standard Samsung Galaxy S or HTC Desire, especially when swithcing apps or screens, or when something is downloading.
So, looking forward to customizing!
Archos 101 8Gb Froyo 2.2, Z4Root + SetCPU 1000Mhz.
Why would it be so hard to root or create ROMs for this device when Archos, on their website claim that this is all open source and even possible to dual boot?
Possibilities beyond Android™ with the ‘Dual OS’
Just like a PC, the ARCHOS 70 internet tablet can be freely programmed in alternative ways. This gives developers programming options in addition to the applications that can be created for the Android platform. To have total control of your Internet Tablet, ARCHOS has opened up this device, thus allowing creative minds to program their own tablet, or create what could be the tablet of the future.
ARCHOS has decided to « open » its ARCHOS 70 internet tablet by proposing to install and replace the system running Android originally installed on the machine.
Developers and programmers can choose for the operating system running under Linux distribution Ångström.
Developers can install this OS on an ARCHOS 70 internet tablet and join the Linux community which is developing a new interface, new icons, drivers, programs ... dedicated to this platform.
Skilled developers and programmers can now choose to switch over to a true standard Linux environment as offered by the Ångström Linux distribution. Developers can put this on their ARCHOS 70 internet tablet devices and join other enthusiasts who are experimenting with various ideas and interfaces based on the Linux operating system.
The difficult part is they compressed the file system with squashfs, which is a read only system.
I'm not too familiar with linux or android os, but I've read people saying that it has to be decompressed before we can have read/write access for root
xShadoWxDrifTx said:
The difficult part is they compressed the file system with squashfs, which is a read only system.
I'm not too familiar with linux or android os, but I've read people saying that it has to be decompressed before we can have read/write access for root
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a workaround for r-only but it's not ready yet. Over at archosfans one of members is trying to remount /system and enable writing, thus providing us with permanent root access. It's work in progress...
zad225: That might require the SDE which I will be released in the next couple days.
Techngro said:
Now that I actually have my A70, I am very pleased with it. It is fast and very responsive.
The real thing that has me excited is that, once this baby gets rooted, it's gonna be so frickin awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No poster is addressing the big problem with the 101: RAM is limited to 256MB, a huge technical and marketing disaster. My phone has 512MB...!
I have two days to decide whether to return it or not. RAM gets well below 50MB easily, and the tablet gets very slow and laggy. I've uninstalled everything I can think of, and under the best circumstances I get 72MB free, dangerously close to a slowdown...
I love everything else about it, specially the weight and the sound. But right now I'm leaning to a return, because even modding will not overcome the RAM problem.
Can someone technically qualified refute my opinion..? I don't mean "it works fine for me" or "be patient", I mean a technical reason that would eliminate the slower speed and lagginess.
Thank you.
You could add a swap file if you are temp rooted.
Sent from my HTC Legend using XDA App
marclh1992 said:
You could add a swap file if you are temp rooted.
Sent from my HTC Legend using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just searched the gen8 section and I don't find any directions on adding a swap file . does someone have a link to a HOW-TO on that
argie said:
No poster is addressing the big problem with the 101: RAM is limited to 256MB, a huge technical and marketing disaster. My phone has 512MB...!
I have two days to decide whether to return it or not. RAM gets well below 50MB easily, and the tablet gets very slow and laggy. I've uninstalled everything I can think of, and under the best circumstances I get 72MB free, dangerously close to a slowdown...
I love everything else about it, specially the weight and the sound. But right now I'm leaning to a return, because even modding will not overcome the RAM problem.
Can someone technically qualified refute my opinion..? I don't mean "it works fine for me" or "be patient", I mean a technical reason that would eliminate the slower speed and lagginess.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but can you give a technical reason on why 256MB RAM is a huge technical and marketing disaster?
The Motorola Droid has 256MB of RAM and runs Froyo fine including Flash. I am able to get down to 25MB or less with no slow down. So saying that the 256MB of RAM is the root problem is incorrect. Would more memory be nice? Of course it would.
The main reasons people are seeing issues is because of some bugs in the current Archos Froyo implementation. It also appears that JIT is not actually enabled in this first Froyo build either. Both of these items can be fixed with a software update.
Another reason I see is the incorrect use of task killers. People seem to think they need to kill all running programs when in fact that can cause slowdowns, instability, crashes and lockups.
I have also seen user error that causes a lot of issues. Mostly from new to Android people that have no clue what they are doing. They install half baked programs that cause some of the issues mentioned above.
I think if you give it some time then things will become nicer. If your not willing to wait then I'm sure you can pick up a new tablet within the next couple of months that will meet your criteria.
Go to this website for how to use a swap space. It fixed most problems for me.
forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=42718
Sent from my HTC Legend using XDA App
I'm about to root my Nexus 10. Will I lose anything? Such as some Google Apps refusing to work like paid for movies or books or anything if it detects it's running on a rooted device?
Or do all Google and other apps still work fine?
Anything to watch out for? I'm considering Cyanogen, and will root with Mskip's tool.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2001868
Everything will work fine. All that I have ever found not working is my employer's software developed only for the employees. No mass produced app will give you any trouble.
Enjoy CM10!
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
DroidBois said:
I'm about to root my Nexus 10. Will I lose anything? Such as some Google Apps refusing to work like paid for movies or books or anything if it detects it's running on a rooted device?
Or do all Google and other apps still work fine?
Anything to watch out for? I'm considering Cyanogen, and will root with Mskip's tool.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2001868
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You lose everything, including your home and first-born child.
In all seriousness, just about everything will work fine if you only root. Some custom ROMs do introduce incompatibility problems, but it's usually on a pretty small scale (an app here or there might not work if your ROM/kernel choice tweaks how the device handles graphics, for example). By and large, you should be fine, but be careful of certain content apps that will refuse to play on rooted devices.
SacGuru said:
Everything will work fine. All that I have ever found not working is my employer's software developed only for the employees. No mass produced app will give you any trouble.
Enjoy CM10!
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Come now, you know that's not entirely true. Many stuck-up content providers won't support rooted devices, and you'll also get the standard "unsupported device" claim if you're rooted or have an unlocked bootloader from apps like Google Wallet. By and large though, OP, you should be fine.
Rirere said:
You lose everything, including your home and first-born child.
In all seriousness, just about everything will work fine if you only root. Some custom ROMs do introduce incompatibility problems, but it's usually on a pretty small scale (an app here or there might not work if your ROM/kernel choice tweaks how the device handles graphics, for example). By and large, you should be fine, but be careful of certain content apps that will refuse to play on rooted devices.
Come now, you know that's not entirely true. Many stuck-up content providers won't support rooted devices, and you'll also get the standard "unsupported device" claim if you're rooted or have an unlocked bootloader from apps like Google Wallet. By and large though, OP, you should be fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, but I was responding to what the OP had asked. Movies from play will work just fine afaik. And yes, there would be some app developers who won't support modified devices (I've heard of some trouble with the Sky tv app), but then again on some devices there are ways to temporarily unroot to allow such apps to run.
Again, how the device handles graphics can be modified as well. I had trouble with the Naked Browser before I modified the dpi using an xposed framework module.
In simple terms, so as to not confuse things, I would say that the huge majority of apps would give him no problems, and he would be missing out a lot if he refuses to root his device in the fear of one or two apps not working.
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
SacGuru said:
You are right, but I was responding to what the OP had asked. Movies from play will work just fine afaik. And yes, there would be some app developers who won't support modified devices (I've heard of some trouble with the Sky tv app), but then again on some devices there are ways to temporarily unroot to allow such apps to run.
Again, how the device handles graphics can be modified as well. I had trouble with the Naked Browser before I modified the dpi using an xposed framework module.
In simple terms, so as to not confuse things, I would say that the huge majority of apps would give him no problems, and he would be missing out a lot if he refuses to root his device in the fear of one or two apps not working.
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a fine line between "not confus[ing] things" though and glossing over very real issues. It's significantly better for a new user to go into rooting aware of potential problems than rush in and get screwed on something because they expected rooting to be a land of sunshine, rainbows, and daisies, and found it was actually one that also had blood and tears.
That's especially true when you start getting into things like XPosed modules, which, while simple are much more than a new user should really have to contend with. Full stock+rooted is probably the safest introduction because it's so comparatively trivial to revert if you blow yourself up.
Rirere said:
There's a fine line between "not confus[ing] things" though and glossing over very real issues. It's significantly better for a new user to go into rooting aware of potential problems than rush in and get screwed on something because they expected rooting to be a land of sunshine, rainbows, and daisies, and found it was actually one that also had blood and tears.
That's especially true when you start getting into things like XPosed modules, which, while simple are much more than a new user should really have to contend with. Full stock+rooted is probably the safest introduction because it's so comparatively trivial to revert if you blow yourself up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know people who went on to custom roms the day they rooted their phones. I myself used one within a fortnight of using my first android device. Rooting isn't exactly rocket science.
I would really like to know what percentage of apps you believe do not work on custom roms/rooted phones out of all apps in the world. Impossible though it might be to have an exact number, I have a slight suspicion you have a larger-than-what-could-be-true figure in your head. While at it, do mention some of the blood and tears you have had while using your device.
In all the time I have been using android devices, I have only once encountered an app which I couldn't run on my device, and I believe that was purely due to lack of effort on my part.
Again, many people turn on to modifying their devices only because they want to use a custom rom, as the OP already wants to. I have never seen a comment by an user who regrets rooting his device as an app isn't working. I have seen numerous from users who are disappointed with the capabilities of their unrooted devices.
Had you understood my second comment, you would have realized that not only had I agreed with what you had said, I had also, unlike you, actually mentioned a couple of apps which might have problems on a rooted device. Glossing over issues might be wrong, but complicating simple questions is worse, in my opinion.
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
SacGuru said:
I know people who went on to custom roms the day they rooted their phones. I myself used one within a fortnight of using my first android device. Rooting isn't exactly rocket science.
I would really like to know what percentage of apps you believe do not work on custom roms/rooted phones out of all apps in the world. Impossible though it might be to have an exact number, I have a slight suspicion you have a larger-than-what-could-be-true figure in your head. While at it, do mention some of the blood and tears you have had while using your device.
In all the time I have been using android devices, I have only once encountered an app which I couldn't run on my device, and I believe that was purely due to lack of effort on my part.
Again, many people turn on to modifying their devices only because they want to use a custom rom, as the OP already wants to. I have never seen a comment by an user who regrets rooting his device as an app isn't working. I have seen numerous from users who are disappointed with the capabilities of their unrooted devices.
Had you understood my second comment, you would have realized that not only had I agreed with what you had said, I had also, unlike you, actually mentioned a couple of apps which might have problems on a rooted device. Glossing over issues might be wrong, but complicating simple questions is worse, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're starting to get a little touchy there.
I've been rooted and flashing ROMs for several years now, so I'm hardly new to the field. Nor do I think that there's even a large portion of apps out there that have trouble on rooted devices-- because that is not the point. From an end-user perspective, it only takes the loss of one app or a misbehaving one to ruin the experience. A great day-to-day example is Foldersync-- while the app "runs" correctly, if it detects you have root privileges it will spam superuser requests to perform a better sync. If you deny the request, your sync may fail, and if you accept it, the app potentially causes a wakelock. Random behavior can be just as bad as an outright crash.
OP's interest with ROMs is also a point of greater concern than just root. You really don't have to look too far to see people having problems, especially if you every venture outside of Nexus-land. The last hulabaloo I saw over this was back in the HTC One forums because a popular AOSP ROM had a misconfigured graphics driver that caused a few games to fall over and die.
As far as blood, sweat, and tears, try a bootlooping Galaxy Player 4.0 with a wiped /efs that was essentially softbricked for about two months before I had a free six or seven hours to manually dd everything back into place. I've also had my share of bootloops on Nexus devices while experimenting, although with a little fastboot or adb knowledge it's not hard to get out of them.
I have seen plenty of people regret their root or flash. I don't think you quite remember how bad the first bootloop or problem can be if you have never messed with this stuff before. Fastboot and adb are pretty easy to learn to use, but when you're first starting and every black screen seems like the death knell, it's a different matter altogether. Yes, I saw your post, and I understood, but it's a lot better to play it safe, especially at first, then charge ahead unaware of the consequences. Don't tell me you haven't seen people whining in countless ROM threads because they've done something stupid, usually because they didn't know not to.
Bottom line: better to play it safe and know than not. The only point I made up top was that you have to be 100% aware that you're playing with fire before you get burned. That doesn't mean fire isn't useful or that it's scary, but it does mean you have to be careful.
Edit
SacGuru said:
The whole point of my second post was that there are alternatives - to roms, to mods, to apps, to hardware limitations. The availability of these alternatives is amongst the prime reasons we love android, you and I.
The Op is not asking us about Softbricks/bootlooping devices, or black screens. He is asking only about apps. As I said before, I haven't yet seen a comment from someone who wants to unroot his device just because a particular app does not work. It might be possible that with your experience you might have seen one or two, but as you mention yourselves, people sometimes tend to be stupid.
It's unfortunate that I sounded touchy to you. My only answer to the Op still remains that it would be highly unlikely for him to have trouble with apps, even though there could be apps which do not work on modded phones (as I did mention in my very first comment).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we're reading the comment a little differently. This is why I brought up what I did.
I'm about to root my Nexus 10. Will I lose anything? Such as some Google Apps refusing to work like paid for movies or books or anything if it detects it's running on a rooted device?
Or do all Google and other apps still work fine?
Anything to watch out for? I'm considering Cyanogen, and will root with Mskip's tool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on the questions being asked, I think it's reasonable to assume OP doesn't know anything about rooting or ROMs, so I'm being a little more liberal in looking at this comment than I would be otherwise. As such, I'd rather err on giving them information a little outside the original scope than too little.
Rirere said:
You're starting to get a little touchy there.
I've been rooted and flashing ROMs for several years now, so I'm hardly new to the field. Nor do I think that there's even a large portion of apps out there that have trouble on rooted devices-- because that is not the point. From an end-user perspective, it only takes the loss of one app or a misbehaving one to ruin the experience. A great day-to-day example is Foldersync-- while the app "runs" correctly, if it detects you have root privileges it will spam superuser requests to perform a better sync. If you deny the request, your sync may fail, and if you accept it, the app potentially causes a wakelock. Random behavior can be just as bad as an outright crash.
OP's interest with ROMs is also a point of greater concern than just root. You really don't have to look too far to see people having problems, especially if you every venture outside of Nexus-land. The last hulabaloo I saw over this was back in the HTC One forums because a popular AOSP ROM had a misconfigured graphics driver that caused a few games to fall over and die.
As far as blood, sweat, and tears, try a bootlooping Galaxy Player 4.0 with a wiped /efs that was essentially softbricked for about two months before I had a free six or seven hours to manually dd everything back into place. I've also had my share of bootloops on Nexus devices while experimenting, although with a little fastboot or adb knowledge it's not hard to get out of them.
I have seen plenty of people regret their root or flash. I don't think you quite remember how bad the first bootloop or problem can be if you have never messed with this stuff before. Fastboot and adb are pretty easy to learn to use, but when you're first starting and every black screen seems like the death knell, it's a different matter altogether. Yes, I saw your post, and I understood, but it's a lot better to play it safe, especially at first, then charge ahead unaware of the consequences. Don't tell me you haven't seen people whining in countless ROM threads because they've done something stupid, usually because they didn't know not to.
Bottom line: better to play it safe and know than not. The only point I made up top was that you have to be 100% aware that you're playing with fire before you get burned. That doesn't mean fire isn't useful or that it's scary, but it does mean you have to be careful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole point of my second post was that there are alternatives - to roms, to mods, to apps, to hardware limitations. The availability of these alternatives is amongst the prime reasons we love android, you and I.
The Op is not asking us about Softbricks/bootlooping devices, or black screens. He is asking only about apps. As I said before, I haven't yet seen a comment from someone who wants to unroot his device just because a particular app does not work. It might be possible that with your experience you might have seen one or two, but as you mention yourselves, people sometimes tend to be stupid.
It's unfortunate that I sounded touchy to you. My only answer to the Op still remains that it would be highly unlikely for him to have trouble with apps, even though there could be apps which do not work on modded phones (as I did mention in my very first comment). Somehow your answer seemed pretty similar to mine ('just about everything would be fine'), so I just wondered why you had to mention to me problems with apps like the google wallet which are easily fixed.
By now, I am sure both of us understand what the other is talking about. Also, the op has enough info to take a decision on his own. My only qualm is that the inclusion of some seemingly complex terminology might turn him off rooting his device
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
Wow... I just love you guys so much... So much detailed analysis here..
I've rooted all my devices in the past and generally not had any issues if I use a mature solid tool and ROM, I've only had issues with more 'pioneering' ROM's and tools, but for good reason. So I try to stick to the stable well tested mature varieties like Cyanogen and well supported tools, generally where the developer gets some payment (as reward encourages good development).
I'm more concerned with anything like content apps so Google Books / Magazines / Movies / Zinio etc or any other apps that may kick a stink about running on a rooted device?
Spotify seems fine on a rooted device so far though (Nexus 4).
It may not be an issue for some, but I am one of the (possibly rare?) people who PAY for content - specifically reading material. And I have an extensive library so I don't want to lose that.
I'm not so concerned on the technical front as the Nexus should be fairly well community supported and understood mainstream devices and likely to have stable development and mature community support.
I have the mskip tool ready to go so I'm fine with that.
It's not a debate about rooting vs not. I always root because simple things like having a quick tile for WLAN AP can make a HUGE difference through the day as opposed to this retarded idea that people ENJOY diving deep through menu layers for simple on / off functions - it drives me completely and utterly insane over the course of a day. So I like to set up and streamline my device how I need it, and even have accurate time with root tools like ClockSync, or better security support to lock out spyware crap like FaceSpy and so on (if root helps) and also, being able to properly back up my phone.
Or employer mandated junk like Afaria that some companies mandate for BYOD-to-work devices, not that I have any idea what it's for as opposed to a trusted workable solution like Google Apps (I guess everyone has to make their own thing to put their own buggy bloated stamp on everything). Will that mandated junk still work?
The biggest problem I have still is this MTP *CRAP* which which I believe you can't work around? That's another story and Google should be shot for this.
But root vs not has little to do with that. I guess we're stuck with this MTP crap no matter what we do (thanks Google, you tools).
Thanks for the advice here though.
DroidBois said:
Wow... I just love you guys so much... So much detailed analysis here..
I've rooted all my devices in the past and generally not had any issues if I use a mature solid tool and ROM, I've only had issues with more 'pioneering' ROM's and tools, but for good reason. So I try to stick to the stable well tested mature varieties like Cyanogen and well supported tools, generally where the developer gets some payment (as reward encourages good development).
I'm more concerned with anything like content apps so Google Books / Magazines / Movies / Zinio etc or any other apps that may kick a stink about running on a rooted device?
Spotify seems fine on a rooted device so far though (Nexus 4).
It may not be an issue for some, but I am one of the (possibly rare?) people who PAY for content - specifically reading material. And I have an extensive library so I don't want to lose that.
I'm not so concerned on the technical front as the Nexus should be fairly well community supported and understood mainstream devices and likely to have stable development and mature community support.
I have the mskip tool ready to go so I'm fine with that.
It's not a debate about rooting vs not. I always root because simple things like having a quick tile for WLAN AP can make a HUGE difference through the day as opposed to this retarded idea that people ENJOY diving deep through menu layers for simple on / off functions - it drives me completely and utterly insane over the course of a day. So I like to set up and streamline my device how I need it, and even have accurate time with root tools like ClockSync, or better security support to lock out spyware crap like FaceSpy and so on (if root helps) and also, being able to properly back up my phone.
Or employer mandated junk like Afaria that some companies mandate for BYOD-to-work devices, not that I have any idea what it's for as opposed to a trusted workable solution like Google Apps (I guess everyone has to make their own thing to put their own buggy bloated stamp on everything). Will that mandated junk still work?
The biggest problem I have still is this MTP *CRAP* which which I believe you can't work around? That's another story and Google should be shot for this.
But root vs not has little to do with that. I guess we're stuck with this MTP crap no matter what we do (thanks Google, you tools).
Thanks for the advice here though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've not had any problems with Google Play services and root, although most of my books are sideloaded after ripping DRM off of Amazon purchases (I don't really believe in the idea of a "perpetual lease"). As someone who has spent time working on that "employer junk" for corporate use, it may annoy the living **** out of you as a rooted user, but from a corporate standpoint it's actually pretty damn important.
Now, as far as MTP goes, don't quote me on this, but I remember seeing a setting in DriveDroid a while back (it's an app that lets you mount an ISO on your computer by connecting your device) that would let you change your USB connection mode to something other than MTP/PTP. I dont' remember the acronym, unfortunately, but it was a lot more in line with the way a "standard" USB device would connect (with the attendant issues of not using FUSE).
Quite a few of us xda lurkers are itching to get root on our devices, but the DRM-debacle of the Sony phones has made many, including myself, hold off with unlocking the bootloader. Instead, we've put our hopes to new exploits that would allow root while keeping the bootloader locked, thus making it possible to keep all DRM functions in place, and also to restore the phone to factory conditions with the bootloader intact.
However, as Chainfire explains in the post below, the chances of any such exploit surfacing are slim. He says it's more important than ever to buy phones with unlocked bootloaders if we want to keep root.
Sadly, I'm afraid he's right and that the official bootloader unlock is the only way we'll be able to get root in the foreseeable future.
What do you guys think? Worth it or not?
Check out Chainfire's post on G+:
https://plus.google.com/113517319477420052449/posts/VxjfYJnZAXP
Fruktsallad said:
Quite a few of us xda lurkers are itching to get root on our devices, but the DRM-debacle of the Sony phones has made many, including myself, hold off with unlocking the bootloader. Instead, we've put our hopes to new exploits that would allow root while keeping the bootloader locked, thus making it possible to keep all DRM functions in place, and also to restore the phone to factory conditions with the bootloader intact.
However, as Chainfire explains in the post below, the chances of any such exploit surfacing are slim. He says it's more important than ever to buy phones with unlocked bootloaders if we want to keep root.
Sadly, I'm afraid he's right and that the official bootloader unlock is the only way we'll be able to get root in the foreseeable future.
What do you guys think? Worth it or not?
Check out Chainfire's post on G+:
https://plus.google.com/113517319477420052449/posts/VxjfYJnZAXP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it's @Chainfire talking, who are we to doubt him? I'm only waiting for a way to backup my TA-Partition (DRM keys), I wouldn't mind losing some features. Even tho I must agree that losing some camera quality is really annoying, but Android is pretty open source so I have no doubts that people will find something to reverse the algorithm loss or create their own.
And also when the occasion occurs that I need to send my device out for repair, that they don't refuse it due to an unlocked BL
I'm sure that's true in the long run, just not sure if it's true now.
It's economics. The security bugs are going to get fewer and further between, but they will arguably never be eradicated. You should expect it to take longer and longer to find new exploits, but I wouldn't bet a wooden nickel that there are no exploits left.
More likely, we will reach a point where the cost of finding an exploit is so great that they're no longer worth looking for to a critical mass of hackers.
On the bright side, the implementations get better all the time, and I see very little about my z3c that I would like to change if only I had root.
And I do think Sony should find a way to make the early rooters whole again. I feel terrible that so many people's $500 phones have been seriously degraded by a completely reversible software change.
Dsteppa said:
Well it's @Chainfire talking, who are we to doubt him? I'm only waiting for a way to backup my TA-Partition (DRM keys), I wouldn't mind losing some features. Even tho I must agree that losing some camera quality is really annoying, but Android is pretty open source so I have no doubts that people will find something to reverse the algorithm loss or create their own.
And also when the occasion occurs that I need to send my device out for repair, that they don't refuse it due to an unlocked BL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but as I'm sure you're aware, backing up the TA-partition requires said exploit to be found in order to get root. So I think it'll be a looong wait. [emoji20]
He still thinks root will be achievable in the early editions of Android L so I think it's safe to say root will arrive for this device under a locked bootloader, it will just take a bit longer than it has in the past to find an exploit.
Sent from my D5803 using XDA Free mobile app
This is really disheartening. It's kinda ironic that Sony, who in recent times has been raised in its support of the developer community of its phones, and even won XDA's OEM of the Year, has such a downer in its phones.
I know this doesn't work for everyone but I'm hopeful that the new AOSP L camera API will mean that AOSP custom roms have some native low light enhancement processing. Maybe...
Chances improve with new software so I t could happen with android L too.
pricey2009 said:
He still thinks root will be achievable in the early editions of Android L so I think it's safe to say root will arrive for this device under a locked bootloader, it will just take a bit longer than it has in the past to find an exploit.
Sent from my D5803 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, but we're still looking at about five months wait considering Sony won't ship L until Q1 2015. Even then, there's no guarantee an exploit will be found.
Maybe I'm overly pessimistic about this. I do, however, have high hopes for the new camera API's regarding camera quality and post processing.
Personally, every day without root is a little painful, so I'll never last all those months. As soon as there are custom kernels available and a ROM like CM or PA, my locked bootloader goes bye-bye.
Chainfire is talking about the su daemon and problems running it (on Android L). He does not say anything about a root exploit. It seems you misunderstood his post.
zxz0O0 said:
Chainfire is talking about the su daemon and problems running it (on Android L). He does not say anything about a root exploit. It seems you misunderstood his post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's hope Sony make or have made some little security mistakes.. To quote his post:
" Of course, this is all dependent on OEMs implementing everything exactly right. If a certain OEM doesn't protect one of their services correctly, then we can leverage that to launch the daemon without kernel modifications. While I'm fairly certain this will be the case for a bunch of devices and firmwares, especially the earlier L firmwares, this is not something you should expect or base decisions on."
Here's hoping they have missed something.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using XDA Free mobile app
pricey2009 said:
Let's hope Sony make or have made some little security mistakes.. To quote his post:
" Of course, this is all dependent on OEMs implementing everything exactly right. If a certain OEM doesn't protect one of their services correctly, then we can leverage that to launch the daemon without kernel modifications. While I'm fairly certain this will be the case for a bunch of devices and firmwares, especially the earlier L firmwares, this is not something you should expect or base decisions on."
Here's hoping they have missed something.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's wait until January for the first android L release then :crying:
I've rooted two weeks ago and still enjoying the phone
zxz0O0 said:
Chainfire is talking about the su daemon and problems running it (on Android L). He does not say anything about a root exploit. It seems you misunderstood his post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
The post was mainly aimed at Android L...
Google hired one of our very own (Towelroot) and iPhone's pioneering hacker so it's going to get tougher. I hope they hired him only for NSA purposes.
That move by sony is just stupid. if they wanted to protect their code, why not store it into the camera firmware (referring to the camera algorithms)?
Why do they have to kill Miracast?
Obviously that is the other side of the medal. investments on security = far less exploits available. we are gonna wait a while, but as a developer I really really miss Xposed. Each time I look at my G2 a little tear drops.
No way I'm gonna root loosing DRM keys. The camera is already weak (to be honest I would be used a word beginning in shi but let's be polite) so I'm not in any way gonna make it worse.
zxz0O0 said:
Chainfire is talking about the su daemon and problems running it (on Android L). He does not say anything about a root exploit. It seems you misunderstood his post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes he does:
"As stated above, it seems for now that modifications to the kernel package are required to have root, we cannot attain it with only modifications to the system partition.
Combine that with a locked bootloader (and optionally dm-verity) and a device becomes nigh unrootable - exactly as intended by the security guys.
Exploit-based roots are already harder to do thanks to SELinux, and now because of the kernel requirements for persistent root, these exploits will need to be run at every boot. Exploits that make the system unstable (as many do) are thus out as well."
Then he goes on to say:
"Of course, this is all dependent on OEMs implementing everything exactly right. If a certain OEM doesn't protect one of their services correctly, then we can leverage that to launch the daemon without kernel modifications. While I'm fairly certain this will be the case for a bunch of devices and firmwares, especially the earlier L firmwares, this is not something you should expect or base decisions on. It is now thus more important than ever to buy unlocked devices if you want root.
It might also mean that every firmware update will require re-rooting, and OTA survival mode will be broken. For many (but far from all) devices we can probably automate patching the kernel package right in the SuperSU installer ZIP. We can try to keep it relatively easy, but updating stock firmwares while maintaining root is probably not going to work as easy and fast as it did until now."
zxz0O0 said:
Chainfire is talking about the su daemon and problems running it (on Android L). He does not say anything about a root exploit. It seems you misunderstood his post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can anything be a root exploit if it doesn't result in a functional su? I read Chainfire's post as Google making it impossible to elevate privileges from within Android, necessitating kernel level exploits which in turn will require unlocked bootloaders to install.
Once we get to where the bootloader has to be unlocked it's really not a root exploit anymore, is it?
michyprima said:
Why do they have to kill Miracast?
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Click to collapse
Because they don't want to support Miracast without HDCP. Remember that Sony is also a content provider. While that may be as annoying for a normal user as the degradation in camera quality, their approach actually still is developer friendly. Request a code - get full control over the device, at the cost of losing some functionality (software functionality). It's as simple as that. CM and other roms work perfectly fine on Xperia devices, and if you want to implement an equivalent camera algorithm, you're free to do so.
Iruwen said:
Because they don't want to support Miracast without HDCP. Remember that Sony is also a content provider. While that may be as annoying for a normal user as the degradation in camera quality, their approach actually still is developer friendly. Request a code - get full control over the device, at the cost of losing some functionality (software functionality). It's as simple as that. CM and other roms work perfectly fine on Xperia devices, and if you want to implement an equivalent camera algorithm, you're free to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can only agree to that. If you buy a Sony phone to act like a Sony phone (most people do!) then one should leave it as it has been delivered by Sony. If you can't agree to how it is, Sony gives you the option to unlock the BL and do whatever you want to do with the HW, but don't expect it to work/act as before. Personally, I have no issues with that at all.
On a different note, Linux/Android is comprised of x million lines of code. There're bugs in this code, there're bugs in the compiler, bugs in Java, bugs even in the Hardware etc. etc. There's no reason to believe (or fear) that Linux/Android would ever be perfect or non-vulnerable. Root will come, it's only a matter of effort and time...
hi I'm very new to this android rooting world. from what I've gathered it's highly useful. I'm looking to root my Samsung s8 sm-g950u can it be done without bricking it. I have a PC Windows 10 to download the needed things. my wife has the one plus 3t. if i stay with android I'm considering my options with phones. I understand the one plus brand and google pixel among some others are very useful.. some being easier to root also more stable than others. all of what I know is through reading. if I do buy another android what the best for a beginner. I'm not looking to over clock. just stream line the phone. gather some useful apps. basically learn have fun and explore.
warphoenix30 said:
hi I'm very new to this android rooting world. from what I've gathered it's highly useful. I'm looking to root my Samsung s8 sm-g950u can it be done without bricking it. I have a PC Windows 10 to download the needed things. my wife has the one plus 3t. if i stay with android I'm considering my options with phones. I understand the one plus brand and google pixel among some others are very useful.. some being easier to root also more stable than others. all of what I know is through reading. if I do buy another android what the best for a beginner. I'm not looking to over clock. just stream line the phone. gather some useful apps. basically learn have fun and explore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, you can do it without bricking the phone
But, since S8 is a samsung phone, it is better for you to know the drawback of rooting your phone, mainly because the Knox getting tripped. Some of it (like, secure folder or instant login from browser) will be unable to be used anymore.
warphoenix30 said:
hi I'm very new to this android rooting world. from what I've gathered it's highly useful. I'm looking to root my Samsung s8 sm-g950u can it be done without bricking it. I have a PC Windows 10 to download the needed things. my wife has the one plus 3t. if i stay with android I'm considering my options with phones. I understand the one plus brand and google pixel among some others are very useful.. some being easier to root also more stable than others. all of what I know is through reading. if I do buy another android what the best for a beginner. I'm not looking to over clock. just stream line the phone. gather some useful apps. basically learn have fun and explore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If its a US 950 U knox cannot be tripped battery only charges to 80% samsung pay does not work
Also in setting about phone and software information and or base band We need to know what firmware you are running now As root is only possible up to a revision 2 bootloader anything higher cannot be rooted or downgraded to root
Well honestly I won't own another one of these. They can't have tempered glass. I dont really use the features that help these sell. Just looking to remove the bloatware and take more control over the phone. The hardware is nice. I'd rather be using a high end flagship vanilla android.
Baseband version is G950USQS5CRF5.
Sounds like I should be using a android that more root friendly. Which would be better? One plus. LG or google pixel?
StardustGeass said:
Sure, you can do it without bricking the phone
But, since S8 is a samsung phone, it is better for you to know the drawback of rooting your phone, mainly because the Knox getting tripped. Some of it (like, secure folder or instant login from browser) will be unable to be used anymore.[/QUOTE
I dont use secure folder. Mayne I don't know enough about it to know if I should be if i need to. I really trying use my pc more for things then my phone. So some of these these if i end up rooting or being able to root it. I probably won't miss. Or maybe I'm not anwarw of why I have to be missing them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey,
I have really been wanting to root my Galaxy-S8, and the only computer I have available to me currently is a Acer Chromebook. I've been doing a little research on the subject, and it doesn't seem like there's a lot of info on the topic - is that a sign I'm wasting my time?
Really curious if this is possible...
hammer280 said:
Hey,
I have really been wanting to root my Galaxy-S8, and the only computer I have available to me currently is a Acer Chromebook. I've been doing a little research on the subject, and it doesn't seem like there's a lot of info on the topic - is that a sign I'm wasting my time?
Really curious if this is possible...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Root is only achievable on a nougat system Oreo and pie nope. I don't know if it's possible from a chrome book most of the rooting tools are based for windows. But jrkruse safestrap rev 5. Is the way
TheMadScientist said:
Root is only achievable on a nougat system Oreo and pie nope. I don't know if it's possible from a chrome book most of the rooting tools are based for windows. But jrkruse safestrap rev 5. Is the way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhmm...
Actually, I'm afraid that's incorrect. I understand this post was from 2019, but Chromebooks have never been able to use Windows packages and programs. Their OS is Chrome OS, which is basically android but with an enhanced chrome browsing experience. And everyone knows that Android is solely Linux based,... as android uses the linux kernel. You see, Linux is open source, right?... therefore, using the Linux kernels, the android developers were able to implement the various modifications that fit their needs.
Now, the Chromebooks, have actually brought even more Linux computing to the table. First off, they have a full fledged Linux distro in beta, that you can enable... Actually even without enabling the linux beta, Chromebooks all have access to the developer shell. As well as Chrome's very own "Crosh" terminal. Both of which are operable using linux commands. (Not windows)
And on just another note...
Google, over the past few years, actually has been working on a new Chrome browser. And by "past few years", I mean even at the time off this original post, up untill now, they've continuously been working on this thing. Lol Yes, I know... Incredible isn't it? Lol Any way, even though it is still currently being worked on Chromebook users now have access to this new brower, via enabling it through turning on a few flags in "Chrome://flags". So the main idea for this browser is actually to decouple the browser from the OS, giving the new Chrome Web browser, much more of a separation. (Which I'm definitely in favour of, and is far less confusing lol). So this new browser, has yet to actually be "officially named" (probably will just stay as "Chrome")... But for now, the developers have made it identifiable to us users, and have been referring to it as "LaCrOS". So, I just want to point out, that the name "LaCrOS" is actually derived from both the words "Linux" and "Chrome OS".
One thing, maybe is what you were thinking of, is that some Chromebooks (like my own) use the amd x86 processors, instead of Arm64, which is the same processors that you'd find in any windows computer (that is aside from, well... now Apple lol) But even though The Chromebooks that use x86 processing offer more of a powerful performance (as well as a powerful consumption of battery & memory) they still very much are Linux based machines... And are VERY VERY different than a windows computer. In order to run any Windows program or package on a Chromebook, you'd need some type of emulator allowing you to do so. Chromebooks, alike Androids, without use of an emulator, are only able to read, install, and run .apk files and not a windows .exe file.
Gorvetco said:
Uhmm...
Actually, I'm afraid that's incorrect. I understand this post was from 2019, but Chromebooks have never been able to use Windows packages and programs. Their OS is Chrome OS, which is basically android but with an enhanced chrome browsing experience. And everyone knows that Android is solely Linux based,... as android uses the linux kernel. You see, Linux is open source, right?... therefore, using the Linux kernels, the android developers were able to implement the various modifications that fit their needs.
Now, the Chromebooks, have actually brought even more Linux computing to the table. First off, they have a full fledged Linux distro in beta, that you can enable... Actually even without enabling the linux beta, Chromebooks all have access to the developer shell. As well as Chrome's very own "Crosh" terminal. Both of which are operable using linux commands. (Not windows)
And on just another note...
Google, over the past few years, actually has been working on a new Chrome browser. And by "past few years", I mean even at the time off this original post, up untill now, they've continuously been working on this thing. Lol Yes, I know... Incredible isn't it? Lol Any way, even though it is still currently being worked on Chromebook users now have access to this new brower, via enabling it through turning on a few flags in "Chrome://flags". So the main idea for this browser is actually to decouple the browser from the OS, giving the new Chrome Web browser, much more of a separation. (Which I'm definitely in favour of, and is far less confusing lol). So this new browser, has yet to actually be "officially named" (probably will just stay as "Chrome")... But for now, the developers have made it identifiable to us users, and have been referring to it as "LaCrOS". So, I just want to point out, that the name "LaCrOS" is actually derived from both the words "Linux" and "Chrome OS".
One thing, maybe is what you were thinking of, is that some Chromebooks (like my own) use the amd x86 processors, instead of Arm64, which is the same processors that you'd find in any windows computer (that is aside from, well... now Apple lol) But even though The Chromebooks that use x86 processing offer more of a powerful performance (as well as a powerful consumption of battery & memory) they still very much are Linux based machines... And are VERY VERY different than a windows computer. In order to run any Windows program or package on a Chromebook, you'd need some type of emulator allowing you to do so. Chromebooks, alike Androids, without use of an emulator, are only able to read, install, and run .apk files and not a windows .exe file.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummm. As I stated years ago. I didn't know. I didn't say yes.
We didn't need a long drawn out explanation of a chrome book. And so you know. I've had a hp windows laptop that I've swapped back and forth between windows and chrome os. For my kid.
Your post is completely irrelevant. As it is so old of a topic. Either way the methods for these devices are completely depreciated.
I am one of the people who helped out on these devices with heavy testing. Plus much much more.
By you telling me I was incorrect just shows that you are acting like a pompous know it all and trying to prove me wrong where I specifically said I didn't know. How does me saying I don't know make me incorrect?
On a side note. We here at xda don't much care to drag up old deals topics that have long since been gone and irrelevant.
Clutters the pages with old useless information
It wasn't irrelevant. I disagree.
Furthermore, the original question was regarding Chromebooks specifically, and not Chrome OS. So my apologies, but shouldn't even the oldest of threads be contemporized if the new information or tools now available have changed since then? But as I did mention, this was not the point of what I wanted to make clear.
I did not say anything regarding the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of utilizing a Chromebook to obtain root on an seperate android device. Nor did I state that you were incorrect. I'm well aware, that it would be ignorant and frankly just unfair to disparage you based on the knowledge available at the given point in time. However, it's unfortunate that you felt obligated to retaliate in such a manner, as It was very clear of what my actual intensions here were, and that it was not in any way a means to belittle you.
There is something you may just have me on though. For in the sense that I guess I am unsure of the protocol here at XDA. But I still do not feel that attacking me was the right way to go about your response. You see, I'm a member at both GitHub, and Stack exchange. So I guess I just assumed that because there is plenty of room for misinterpretation, and at times even errors, so honestly, some of the best ways to further our understanding is when we converse and can learn from one another. In any case, I had noticed that your comment could very easily be misinterpreted, and not everyone is on the same advanced level as you might be. So its best to not just assume, but actually it is encourage to give your answers as if you may be explaining to someone who isn't familiar with the subject at all, and using examples and explaining as clearly as possible are excellent way to do this, and usually can be most appreciated.
As for trying to prove you wrong, I do then appologize, as that was not my intentions. I only wished for it to be acknowledged, that a Chromebook, regardless of the year, then and now, in no way has the ability to utilise any Windows rooting tool. I did not state this to offend any one. It was only to contribute a very descriptive and detailed body of information, ensuring that the difference between windows executable files and that of Androids are to be both known and understood, to avoid anyone's time being wasted on a task or and idea that would get them nowhere.
It is necessary to do this, as for the chance an unknowingly individual may come across this thread, looking for answers similar to the question at hand. As you should know, even "old topics" should be rectified as such. Unless in the event they are to be removed, locked or relocated to a more appropriate forum.
The only thing here I believe to be irrelevant, is that you felt inclined to point out what I had already stated and took into consideration. So again, that way it is clear, I would just like to point out... that regardless of the year, whether it be 4 years ago, 4 months ago, or whether it be today. I amend the information I provided, and consider it to not only be "relevant" but I hope it proves to be useful and potential prevent or deter someone who would have been then proceeding to inquire about how to run "Windows rooting tools" on a chromebook.