Database Users

Google's Android - why isnt there more development for this?

http://code.google.com/android/
incase anyones not familiar with android, check that site out.
im not sure why there isnt more development or developers that are going after this in terms of getting it working on all devices? im currently using it on my vogue and its amazing. definately better UI in terms of EVERYTHING. its open source, so i think developers should be all over this! has so much potential its kind of ridiculous
vogue thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=382265
its working about 80% now thanks to amazing developer martin.
the browser and everything (overall UI) are so much better and smoother than windows mobile! and being that its open source with google ENCOURAGING development of apps and themes and skins and whatnot, i think this is the next best thing to happen to ppc's.
THIS is the actual iphone killer.
just some samples
on a vogue (very smooth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0z9bWiAT44
just a demo of the browser (mine is actually a little smoother than this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2FpDDEVWtk
the reason im posting this here is because i was the first one to post in this section with manilla2d (when udk first released it), asking whether we can get this on other devices, and look what happened with that. if we can get the amazing developers from here to work on this like they worked on m2d, then wow this will be amazing!

Yeah, even I'm suprised at the low level of excitement of porting this to all devices. Hoping for some real development . Btw, those videos are pretty impressive.
Akshay

Yeah... I'm a little surprised too.
I have a Vogue now, so I'm OK, but I'd love to see somebody pick this project up for the Touch Pro. It seems to be very similar to the G1, so the porting would be a lot more complete than the porting to the Vogue.
Hopefully somebody with the skills (read: not me) will undertake this.

it'll pick up. i say in 6 months to a year people will snap out of the apple app dev craze. but from a dev point of view, apple is where its at right now. the amount of money you could make is a driver by all means.
htc will also be a key part in this. when they start to release better looking hardware, perhaps something on par with the diamond....you'll see a user increase. and user increase translate into dev interest. so just hang in there....i think you'll get what you want soon.

A ppc that works only on 80 Percent ? And no additional Software, no outlook syncronisation? Thats at the moment somthing for freaks or people with a second device
If there would be a 100 Percent Android i would install it, believe me, because i´m not very happy with windows anymore.
So i think we must wait and hope.
My next Device in half a year will be hopefully the Touch HD with Android rolleyes

because it makes no sense to port androud to a phone that is not 3G with GPS.
the only advantage of the g phone that I saw was the service. 3G and free GPS! i'm like, how much for the puppy in the window?
I honestly think that porting it to my wizard would be senseless.
without the service the gphone is just a phone wothout service.

S.V.I said:
because it makes no sense to port androud to a phone that is not 3G with GPS.
the only advantage of the g phone that I saw was the service. 3G and free GPS! i'm like, how much for the puppy in the window?
I honestly think that porting it to my wizard would be senseless.
without the service the gphone is just a phone wothout service.
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Of course it is always pointless. We do it because we can (and because we don't want to do anything while at work)
(and much like bluemetal, we are all tired of the same old look and functionality in our WM devices). Then again, it can always be worse....
we could all have iphones
Anyways, I am looking forward to someone porting this to the Blue Angel.

The bigest stumbling block for me is lack of Exchange support. GPS isn't really necessary with the cell tower triangulation available. The accuracy is getting better. It will never be as tight as GPS but close is good enough for me. I can do with out 3G (I wish I had it) I don't enjoy the experience with the little screen. It's like looking at the ocean through a porthole. A 5 inch screen with much better resolution would be great. I use it for quick info but surfing is not fun.
I do like the idea of going linux on the phone. It would be that much closer to having a truely mobile desktop. We wouldn't have to install resource hogging shells that ride on top of an already bloated today screen to get better customization.
I think the biggest problem overall though is the hardware needed will put a lot of older equipment like my little wizard out to pasture. I don't have the funds to rush out an purchase a new phone. And yes I think all the bugs will need to be shaken out for a while before I take the plunge. Maybe by the 2nd or third generation of Android things will be a little less "bleeding edge". It all looks great now but I rely on my phone too much to gamble on an untried system.

To be completely honest, I too am suprised by the lack of progress.
This is a complete replacement for Windows Mobile: something we've all only dreamed about up until now. It will have a wicked Dev community around it soon enough.
There were a hell of a lot of efforts to get the Beta running. But now... nothing?
*so confused
The worst part is, it'd be gorgeous on my LG KS20, but I doubt we'll see it anytime soon: no one loves us KS20 owners. Guess you were all just jealous of our drivers.

bluemetalaxe said:
A ppc that works only on 80 Percent ? And no additional Software, no outlook syncronisation? Thats at the moment somthing for freaks or people with a second device
If there would be a 100 Percent Android i would install it, believe me, because i´m not very happy with windows anymore.
So i think we must wait and hope.
My next Device in half a year will be hopefully the Touch HD with Android rolleyes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't know if you read my whole post, but i never said "hey everyone lets run something 80% finished on our ppcs."
waiting and hoping isnt going to do anything, thats why i started this thread. to get more attention instead of sitting and waiting for something we arent sure is going to ever happen.
im glad a lot of other people are on the same page as me, wondering why there is barely any development for this. thanks for the support guys
lets get some devs in here to weigh in on this!

Well, there's a number of quite simple reasons...
- Porting Android to another device isn't as simple as "Hey, it's Open Source, you just have to compile and install". First of all, you'd need to find a working cross compiler for ARM in the first place (one using Windows' API, like those used for PPC apps isn't much help). Then you'd need to write drivers for usually undocumented hardware with this cross compiler or in ARM assembler (reusing existing WM drivers, like in cooked ROMs, wouldn't work in Linux). Finally, you need to find a way to flash that system to your PPC (that's a bit more work than a patched/cooked variation of an already existing WM ROM), and so on. That's work for the kind of freaks who would do their taxes binary in mind...
- Writing apps for a system almost nobody own so far isn't that attractive. It's even less attractive if the potential developer doesn't own one - the real experience is always a bit different to an emulator, and usually would like some use for himself, too (what good is an mobile app for you if you'd need a laptop with emulator to use it? ). So far, there's only one official Android device out there, and aside from the fact it's still a bit "first try, for developers only" (no Outlook sync, ugly design, ...), you only get it in very few parts of the world or in overpriced eBay auctions. Inofficial ports with reduced functionality and maybe buggy or slow "beta" drivers aren't that great, too...
- While the Android API is quite close to common Java style, it's still something completely new, which requires some time to get into the framework's basic style, the available functions, the loopholes and small tricks, etc. With WM, the gap to common Windows (desktop) programming is way smaller, and I guess it's similar with the iPhone and Mac programming.
Or, in other words: Give Andoid some time to grow up. IMHO, G1 and the few existing ports are a playground for hackers and early adopters, so they can get startet with fixing (security holes, missing functionality, ...). Then, in some months, more devices with a "hacker improved" Android will be published, and when developers buy those, they also will start writing apps if they are missing something.

you'd think more people would be starting to port.. because god is that g1 terrible, you have to have sharpened pencils for fingers to type on that flush keyboard)

Mort said:
Well, there's a number of quite simple reasons...
- Porting Android to another device isn't as simple as "Hey, it's Open Source, you just have to compile and install". First of all, you'd need to find a working cross compiler for ARM in the first place (one using Windows' API, like those used for PPC apps isn't much help). Then you'd need to write drivers for usually undocumented hardware with this cross compiler or in ARM assembler (reusing existing WM drivers, like in cooked ROMs, wouldn't work in Linux). Finally, you need to find a way to flash that system to your PPC (that's a bit more work than a patched/cooked variation of an already existing WM ROM), and so on. That's work for the kind of freaks who would do their taxes binary in mind...
- Writing apps for a system almost nobody own so far isn't that attractive. It's even less attractive if the potential developer doesn't own one - the real experience is always a bit different to an emulator, and usually would like some use for himself, too (what good is an mobile app for you if you'd need a laptop with emulator to use it? ). So far, there's only one official Android device out there, and aside from the fact it's still a bit "first try, for developers only" (no Outlook sync, ugly design, ...), you only get it in very few parts of the world or in overpriced eBay auctions. Inofficial ports with reduced functionality and maybe buggy or slow "beta" drivers aren't that great, too...
- While the Android API is quite close to common Java style, it's still something completely new, which requires some time to get into the framework's basic style, the available functions, the loopholes and small tricks, etc. With WM, the gap to common Windows (desktop) programming is way smaller, and I guess it's similar with the iPhone and Mac programming.
Or, in other words: Give Andoid some time to grow up. IMHO, G1 and the few existing ports are a playground for hackers and early adopters, so they can get startet with fixing (security holes, missing functionality, ...). Then, in some months, more devices with a "hacker improved" Android will be published, and when developers buy those, they also will start writing apps if they are missing something.
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ok now these reasons make a lot of sense. im just surprised that not as many people are trying to get it started so they can get started on fixing, like you said. but ok, all of your other reasons make complete sense. im sure the future releases of android will only get better.
android just seems like exactly what many of us have been looking for in wm devices, basically, a complete UI replacement endorsed/created by a large company (other than microsoft lol).

jakub_w said:
im just surprised that not as many people are trying to get it started so they can get started on fixing, like you said.
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Who knows? AFAIK, the order numbers aren't that bad, and all those reviewers give some feedback, too. I mean, it's only a week since the G1 is available at all, and, as said, it's not very attractive so far. Not everybody wants to spend hundreds of dollars just to provide Google with requests and code changes and T-Mobile and HTC with money...
android just seems like exactly what many of us have been looking for in wm devices, basically, a complete UI replacement endorsed/created by a large company (other than microsoft lol).
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I don't think the UI is the really big thing about Android. You can even replace it completely, and I don't know (yet) where the limits / design guides are for applications. I just hope it doesn't get as confusing as Linux on the desktop, where even a Gnome or KDE desktop can be modified so far that it's almost as hard to switch distros as switching from Windows to MacOS...
The important things about Android are more in the basic technology, imho, like
- A stable, timeless system core (*nix is older than me, so "modern" is not quite correct - that goes for MacOS X, too, btw...)
- Seamless integration of connection management and phone functions (opposed to WM, where it still acts like a makeshift patchwork, and with every update less APIs are working...)
- Portable application framework (Java, lots of system APIs)
- Simple application installation (no "is this EXE a PC setup or the PPC executable?", "How the hell do I install a CAB file?", ...)
However, I still wonder how/if Andoid will support direct PC synchronization (for shared files, contacts, appointments, music, ...) and how fast and memory consumptive the required Java VM is... (Well, at least none of the G1 reviews I read complained about that, so it seems to be faster than .NET on WM...)

i was just playing around with android and in the dev tools or api demos theres a section called opengl es. i have a vogue and i tried these, they ran extremely smoothly. isnt this something that everyone has been saying is impossible? (specifically for getting tf3d to run on the vogue) i think this proves that software driven 3d is more than capable of handling tf3d. just a thought.

jakub_w said:
i was just playing around with android and in the dev tools or api demos theres a section called opengl es. i have a vogue and i tried these, they ran extremely smoothly. isnt this something that everyone has been saying is impossible? (specifically for getting tf3d to run on the vogue) i think this proves that software driven 3d is more than capable of handling tf3d. just a thought.
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I definitely agree with you on that. Thing is though is that this is a completely different environment with a different set of drivers (and rules) which makes (for example) modifying their parameters to allow for keys normally used for certain functions in WM to be used for something completely different. Also OpenGL (ES) is all that is used on *nix OSes whether or not they run on full or embedded hardware. All that's needed is the driver for the graphics chip. Microsoft wants you to use their proprietary D3D not OpenGL (ES) hence why it was impossible to have OpenGL (ES) before. Also TF3D uses DirectX and not OpenGL ES AFAIK.
Android is great. Only thing I need is a way to get the SDcard image working and a HTC Touch Pro to port Android, Angstrom and/or OpenMoko to, I'd be set.

why would you develop software for an operating system that isn't even fully ported yet?

joel2009 said:
why would you develop software for an operating system that isn't even fully ported yet?
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Weeell....
- It's Linux and Open Source (some people wouldn't touch a closed system with a stick...)
- It's nice to be prepared when you get the running system
- There is a device with that OS
- The documentation is way better than Microsoft's
- There's a good chance the API will remain compatible, so it doesn't hurt to start early (opposed to WM, where some basic features can/could only be done with device dependant or inofficial APIs, which were dropped in newer updates...)

Honeycomb ROM, are we going to let the nook guys beat us?

Picture me in the braveheart costume for this: the nookcolor has an early port of honeycomb working already. They skipped right over froyo and gingerbread, how dare they! The nook isn't even a true android tablet, I say we fight, show them what a real 3.0 tablet looks like! Who's with me?
Seriously though, any gen 8 devs have an idea here? I'm aware the full SDK isnt even out but can we do it? I'm not a programmer but i pledge my time and brain to the cause. I'd even throw $20 to the dev.

I can draw a boot screen for it in MS Paint.
I bought my 101 knowing that Froyo would be acceptable, but hoping that there would be community support to bring Gingerbread along too.

Not going to happen on the 70 until source is out. The emulator image won't run at the 70's resolution. The launcher just crashes. Could happen on the 101 though. I only have the 70 so not much i can do to help with that device.

LOL. I was coming here to post the exact same question.
I hope that Archos understands that They need to be proactive with respect to pushing new versions of Android. I have a Moto Cliq, and Motorola hasn't even tried to push Froyo out yet. It is so annoying to be a step behind everyone else. I hope Archos isn't going to take the same approach.

If you look closely you will see that the honeycomb in there is running on a 2.6.29 kernel.
So there schould be no real problem.

When the full SDK Source code is released can we expect a ROM? I really hope so, although I'm fairly confident Archos will follow through and give us an official release.

I blame availability (Nook is about everywhere). Hopefully in the upcoming days I will be donating my Archos to a group of people who do AOSP work.

Tsusai said:
I blame availability (Nook is about everywhere). Hopefully in the upcoming days I will be donating my Archos to a group of people who do AOSP work.
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Won't we need a custom bootloader before we can load a new ROM? Isn't is b/c Archos has signed and encrypted the actual "ROM" layer of Android that we can't flash our own ROMs?
From my understanding, and someone please correct me if I am wrong since I'm just learning, Archos has file system protections on Application Framework, the Andriod Runtime, and the Libraries but has unlocked the Kernel layer in the SDE for us (http://developer.android.com/guide/basics/what-is-android.html) . Essentially we can adjust how the hardware interacts with their mostly vanilla versions of Eclair and Froyo but can't change what is a majority of what people call the "ROM". It seems that $auron and a few others are gifted with finding ways to change the way the ROM functions by programming at the Kernel level.
Of course, this is what I've pieced together from tons of different sources so I'm open to someone correcting me...

With SDE we can boot just about anything as long as it has the drivers to play nice with the hardware in the Archos. A version of Android built for tablets would be relatively easy compared to some of the schemes people have been trying.
What you say is true for most devices, but giving us the SDE side of things was a real nice gift by Archos. Basically they handed us the keys and told us if we broke it we bought it, which is what a lot of people have been asking the manufacturers of other devices to do for a long time.

p0rk burn said:
What you say is true for most devices, but giving us the SDE side of things was a real nice gift by Archos. Basically they handed us the keys and told us if we broke it we bought it, which is what a lot of people have been asking the manufacturers of other devices to do for a long time.
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That's correct

chulri said:
That's correct
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and it will even keep me buying archos products. which is really what they want.
maybe they will get into the phone business....

L0$t$0ul said:
Not going to happen on the 70 until source is out. The emulator image won't run at the 70's resolution. The launcher just crashes. Could happen on the 101 though. I only have the 70 so not much i can do to help with that device.
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They just made it run on a Dell Streak, and it's 800x480 like archos 70 ... so ...

p0rk burn said:
Basically they handed us the keys and told us if we broke it we bought it, which is what a lot of people have been asking the manufacturers of other devices to do for a long time.
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Click to collapse
Um...I'm pretty sure I bought it already. It cost 275.

lechuckthepirate said:
They just made it run on a Dell Streak, and it's 800x480 like archos 70 ... so ...
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Streaks source is open ,isn't it?
Sent from my A101IT using Tapatalk

Moved to general as not android development

If you look at the video that was just posted for the streak it "looks" like they got it working by somehow telling the launcher to launch at a different resolution from the screen so a lot of stuff is off screen on the launcher.
From what I could see from tinkering with the 70 and the sdk the launcher itself will crash if you try to start it up at 800x480. I'm not sure if that can be fixed without source but I'm not an expert in Launchers. People have managed to get a rom to work on a phone by replacing the launcher but that's not the gingerbread experience we would want on our tablets so what's the point in that?
I'm sure once the source is available for the launcher it'll be easy to get a rom on here.

L0$t$0ul said:
If you look at the video that was just posted for the streak it "looks" like they got it working by somehow telling the launcher to launch at a different resolution from the screen so a lot of stuff is off screen on the launcher.
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Just had an idea, using this as a basis of the idea...
Could we (and when I say we, I mean a dev who can actually do this kinda stuff) do a similar thing, but instead of changing the resolution, change the LCD density?
I am not sure if this would work at all, but the theory is this:
If LCD density is changed, you have the appearance of a higher resolution, this generally messes with standard launchers in bad ways. However, if the standard launcher is messed up out of the screen (i.e. as if parts are on non-existing pixels off screen) could this mixture of events work in our favour?
I am not a dev, so this is probably a worthless idea, but thought I'd get it out there just in case its not as worthless as I expect it to be.

Only 728 mb ram ?

Android manager apps says this device has max of 728 mb ram , will 3.1 honeycomb update gona use full 1 gm ram like 2.2 froyo did with phones ?
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk

remember its 1GB shared memory.. rest if for OS and graphic (video) memory.

Why don't they just go ahead and make a stinking tablet with 4gb of ram. I'd pay an extra $150 for it, especially considering the multitasking power it'd have.

The answer to that is simple but long...
I'll give you one guess....
PS: I'd pay extra for too

muqali said:
Why don't they just go ahead and make a stinking tablet with 4gb of ram. I'd pay an extra $150 for it, especially considering the multitasking power it'd have.
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Click to collapse
They WILL.. it's just this way you buy a $500 tablet, and next year or 18 months you buy another $600 tablet with 2 or 4 G ram.
Better* for them then selling one $700 tablet now and nothing for another 2 years or so..
(* better from their point of vies)

I think current honeycomb OS only support 1GB ram. My running apps only occupied max 400+ MB. I think extra ram is not necessary.
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk

Fluffbutt said:
They WILL.. it's just this way you buy a $500 tablet, and next year or 18 months you buy another $600 tablet with 2 or 4 G ram.
Better* for them then selling one $700 tablet now and nothing for another 2 years or so..
(* better from their point of vies)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes hopefully when vizio comes to the market it forces other companies to lower prices mwhahahahaha

What on Earth would you use more than 1GB of RAM for on these tablets?
I'm loving the amount of memory - coming from the Advent Vega on Honeycomb (a whopping 380ish megabyte available there) 1GB feels positively cavernous.
I don't know that you'd notice a difference between 1GB and 4GB, certainly.

Well, the A500 only has about 480 of the 1G available for you to use anyway, based on mine after startup (and i only have a clock and weather widget running).
By the way - I also feel there's WAY too much auto starting on the A500 - it seems like, after about 2 mins, there's some two dozen things running!!.

Given that Iconia has a usb port and we can connect a keyboard.. Well, if kernel source is released we can make it run a full-blown desktop distro like ubuntu and it'll be one of the lightest and long-living netbooks..
RAM never hurts. Some guys are using ubuntu on Toshiba AC100. Tegra2 itself seems to outperform intel atom in computing tasks like archiving/compression but 512 Mb ram they have there makes using modern apps like chromium painful and nearly impossible without heavy swapping.

sp3dev said:
Given that Iconia has a usb port and we can connect a keyboard.. Well, if kernel source is released we can make it run a full-blown desktop distro like ubuntu and it'll be one of the lightest and long-living netbooks..
RAM never hurts. Some guys are using ubuntu on Toshiba AC100. Tegra2 itself seems to outperform intel atom in computing tasks like archiving/compression but 512 Mb ram they have there makes using modern apps like chromium painful and nearly impossible without heavy swapping.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
see here if you want ubuntu/linux on tegra2
also check the xoom section, i think they got a ubuntu 10.x running.

Dexter_nlb said:
see here if you want ubuntu/linux on tegra2
also check the xoom section, i think they got a ubuntu 10.x running.
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Click to collapse
You got me soooo wrongly.. Take a look - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1091081. I have done that a month ago. Now I want to run GNU/Linux with X11 natively, without android since that will allow me to enjoy opengl acceleration, alsa and other cool stuff. And obviously it makes no sense to start working without kernel source

sp3dev said:
You got me soooo wrongly.. Take a look - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1091081. I have done that a month ago. Now I want to run GNU/Linux with X11 natively, without android since that will allow me to enjoy opengl acceleration, alsa and other cool stuff. And obviously it makes no sense to start working without kernel source
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i think atrix got your tegra2 GL driver already, just look at the Motorola website for the source for the driver. Maybe it can be ported to other tegra2 platforms..
they use it in combination with the dual display function for mobile display + lcd display output (i seen it 99% working on folio100)

Fluffbutt said:
Well, the A500 only has about 480 of the 1G available for you to use anyway, based on mine after startup (and i only have a clock and weather widget running).
By the way - I also feel there's WAY too much auto starting on the A500 - it seems like, after about 2 mins, there's some two dozen things running!!.
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Click to collapse
I agree! So root it and take care of that - my a500 is on fire ever since I got rid of some of the stock crapware that ships with it - thanks to the modded version of Ginerbreak posted in the dev section it literally takes less then 5 mins to permaroot (at least till you OTA update) to get rid of some of that factory installed bloat.

entropy.of.avarice said:
I agree! So root it and take care of that - my a500 is on fire ever since I got rid of some of the stock crapware that ships with it - thanks to the modded version of Ginerbreak posted in the dev section it literally takes less then 5 mins to permaroot (at least till you OTA update) to get rid of some of that factory installed bloat.
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Except you can;t get rid of it - you have to rename it (and rename it back before an update, else you have a $500 brick) which means it's STILL on the tablet.
OK, it might not be running, but it's still there wasting space (like all those crap facebook/twitter things! And the stupid demo games).
Then, all you have to do is forget to name them back, just one small forgetful episode.. brick time!

Unless you just make a custom rom without the bloatware and with a custom recovery.
Custom roms don't get OTA updates (well you disable them) and I'm not expecting an update in the near future so in the meantime I'm waiting with my crapfree rom and waiting for Icecream sandwich if it ever comes for A500.
Besides I can always cook another rom if new versions show up.

Fluffbutt said:
Except you can;t get rid of it - you have to rename it (and rename it back before an update, else you have a $500 brick) which means it's STILL on the tablet.
OK, it might not be running, but it's still there wasting space (like all those crap facebook/twitter things! And the stupid demo games).
Then, all you have to do is forget to name them back, just one small forgetful episode.. brick time!
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Nah. No where as complicated as that. I use a app called "root toolbox" - pretty similar to titanium backup. It will automatically remove any system apk and back it up for you - if you want to be safe you can just keep
a backup of any removed apk's on a USB stick or somewhere off your droid - i rooted and removed a bunch of system apps before I noticed I could apply a OTA update.
Simply restored my default apk's, ran ota upgrade, ran gingerbreak again to regain root - removed annoying system software again. Very little risk of bricking your device unless you really do something silly - and now that we know thanks to xda how to wipe all data and factory restore - it's a pretty low risk process.

Windows 8

I would love a windows 8 rom or the real thing would be best
If you voted add a reply why you voted for what you did
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Acer Iconia A500 Rooted Running Flexreaper R7 ICS 4.0.3s

jnktechstuff said:
I would love a windows 8 from or the real thing would be best
Acer Iconia A500 Rooted Running Flexreaper R7 ICS 4.0.3s
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what?

Is the OP a bot?
Maybe English is their second or third language perhaps?
I think what the OP might be trying to say is they'd love the ARM version of Windows 8 for the Acer Iconia A500?
Not going to happen imo, even with MS supporting ARM, where would the drivers for the Iconia A500 derive from?

dr mcknight said:
what?
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Seriously?!

http://youtu.be/JmvCpR45LKA

Sorry spell check
I meant to say a rom
Acer Iconia A500 Rooted Running Flexreaper R7 ICS 4.0.3

Idk how to do it somehow someone will do it if now the real thing the rom would be cool.
Added a poll at the top to vote
Acer Iconia A500 Rooted Running Flexreaper R7 ICS 4.0.3

Windows wouldn't work for me anyway, as I use a lot of Linux specific functions on my tab... Why anyone would want to make android look like windows is beyond me, also.

haag498 said:
Windows wouldn't work for me anyway, as I use a lot of Linux specific functions on my tab... Why anyone would want to make android look like windows is beyond me, also.
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I personally really like the Metro UI for tablets. It arranges information in a way that works me for.
I don't think that a true Windows port would ever come to the Acer A500. If I remember correctly, MS is locking down the ARM version of Windows 8's bootloader (yup). As I understand it, not only does that keep you from running custom software on a Win8 device, it would also keep you from running Win8 on non-signed hardware.
I think the better chance would be to have one of the many developers working on Metro UI clones for android build a tablet version.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=23843738#post23843738
Please read this, and then have someone close this topic.

This is completely different from what you are talking about, this is a voting post
Acer Iconia A500 Rooted Running Flexreaper R7 ICS 4.0.3

ROM or Windows 8, what exactly are you asking?
Have u tried Windows 8, it looks to be aimed a 4 year olds (which is probably fine if you are 4 years old) but, I can't seriously believe Microsoft is going to offer this piece of crap as a serious attempt at a new operating system. So, my answer, without even knowing for sure what option 2 might be, would be option 2. (Anyting... except Windows 8!)

I have tried it, i have a dual boot right now.i like the updating tiles, windows 8 is really designed for touchscreen though

Danny2 said:
Have u tried Windows 8, it looks to be aimed a 4 year olds (which is probably fine if you are 4 years old) but, I can't seriously believe Microsoft is going to offer this piece of crap as a serious attempt at a new operating system. So, my answer, without even knowing for sure what option 2 might be, would be option 2. (Anyting... except Windows 8!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you think the Metro design methodology is for 4 year olds then obviously they are sophisticated 4 year olds that love UI's that present information easily. Metro is brilliant in how it aggregates simple data without taking up unnecessary room. I'd take a weather and Facebook tile over a separate icon and widget any day. I've been pleased with Launcher 7 on my phone so far and I'd love to see a Metro UI-like app for Android tablets. I will, however, admit Metro has faults. Tiles that don't show information I could really cut out but that also spoils the uniform UX.

I have a Windows Phone and I gotta tell ya, it's awesome. Fast, reliable and the UI is the best out there. I've had for a month, and only had 1 FC.
I have used iOS and Android (both extensively), and the Metro UI blows them out of the water. It is for tablets though, so I'm not sure about Win8 for Desktops without touchscreen, but it's not the case here.
It still lacks apps, but I believe this will change as devs get used to the platform. The thing is, there aren't a lot of apps, but most that are available are very good.
I would love to see my a500 with Win8, and I believe it may happen. There are awesome devs out there, and one can hope.

sort of ....
I'd like to try the interface without sacrificing the freedom of the android platform. I know there are some metro ui themes in development so if I'm patient ...

from what i have been reading lately. Nobody will ever see windows8 Arm on any device other then installed from the factory. But who knows until its actually out.

I would like a Windows 8 tablet, if only to play with. I haven't even tested it out yet though, so I may monkey with it for a few days and realize I hate it. I wouldn't want to give up my Android love though, in my opinion its the best out at the moment. Either way, I'd have to get another tablet, just so I don't screw up my A500.

You can download the Windows 8 preview from Microsofr, try it out on a desktop, see what you think.

Obviously there'll be no out of the box support for arbitrary devices, but the lack of (community) support for non official devices is purely speculation at this point.
Really, it could go either way at this point. I'm sure someone will at least try, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was at least a broken version partially running on existing tablets in a year.
That being said, don't hold your breath on it, because there's also a very real possibility it won't happen.
Also, mtmerrick, you can post links of yourself posting links to yourself all you want, that doesn't change the fact that you're spouting one possibility as truth, and noone knows a damn thing about what's going to happen. It also makes you look like a ****.

I'm done with all Android phones and tablets not released from Google.

FYI: This is a venting post, written spur of the moment. Probably rambling from point to point without proofreading or organizing thoughts. Don't even know if it will make sense to anyone.
In my haste to, you know, have the newest version of Android running on my Transformer, I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer. There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues. IMO, the fault is split between Google and the hardware manufacturers. Google should force manufacturers to ship phones and tablets with stock Android. It is Google's system and they should have the control to do that. The manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves for not being able to release an update to the latest OS within a few weeks of the release, jellybean, and on a tablet that was only launched in the US in April 2011. Google should be ashamed for letting these manufacturers get away with running an outdated version on a device that is completely cabable of running the newest iteration. Had an official means of updating to Jellybean been available I would not have spent so much of my time rooting and testing ROMs to make sure I have a consistent user experience.
I look at Apple; the structure and consistency they have in regards to software updates. The first gen iPad received updates until iOS 5 for two years. Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away. For example, there has yet to be a legitimate Spotify (which I use daily), twitter, Facebook tablet app. Even the official apps they do have for "tablets" are weak in the user interface compared to iPad apps.
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware and they are running terrible skinned versions of the OS. I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.

You have a very good point on it, I couldn't agree more with it.
But regarding the distribution of Android, I think that if the OS had to be the same on every phone/tablet, there wouldn't have a reason to exist so many different devices, it would be like Apple's iOS and its devices.
What makes the platform interesting is the fact that anyone can use it and alter some elements of it, a thing that you don't have in the strict control that Apple has on iOS.
Sent from my MB525 using xda app-developers app

I agree with you in certain points - as for update procedures in general.
I am still very annoyed by the update politics of the Transformer, since the officially offered upgrades caused so
many troubles for me, as random reboots and freezing ,......
On top of it, skilled people in this forum then manage to get nice kernels and ROMs done which are just
much better in performance and stability compared to stock, that you really do wonder who the heck ASUS is hiring
I found finally a stable combo for me based on ICS but failed so far for JB.
I am at the moment testing different JB EOS and kernel combos but experience still issues.
This can become indeed kind of boring....
Your view comparing the great support of Apple on the other hand I don't share completely. It is basically the same as for their Desktop/Laptops.
It is really so much easier to only support a handfulll of devices than thousands of different combinations. Sure, you have a point that
you benefit when you choose one of their devices. But bluntly I become afraid of the growing power of Apple, since I really embrace choice.
Their are always people who prefer a certain different device because it helps their needs ( look at all the different screen sizes for Android and
then check Apple), me I prefer e.g. HW keyboard for a mobile phone.
But then I prefer as well Linux and the choice to put together your preferred OS over a non-customizable MacOSX ...
BTW: I own as well Apple devices and this is not supposed to become a flame thread, please

At the end of the day its down to us as individuals what we buy.
The reviews are not always impartial but certainly a good starting point, but i find researching any product i buy before hand a must now a days.
Great example was when i had bought my gtab - if i had read about it properly i would have know Samsung are one of the worst for updates.....but then again none of the manufacturers promise any future upgrades - maybe again we are just expecting something that we were never told we were going to get??
Never had an issue with my TF but i agree you should not have to rely on a developers site to get "improved" versions of the software - but if i had an Ipad i would have no doubt jailbroken it to improve my ipad experience aswel, just like ive done in the past with ipod touches etc. Would i get another TF - yes - im looking to get the Infinity as i still feel that the Asus TF fits my needs and is still one of the best supported tablets out there.
So the moral of the story is nothings perfect, the infos out there......we just need to be a little more astute as individuals and put the time into looking at the pros and cons before we buy. We spend the money and make the choice - not Google, Asus or Apple.:good:

ultmontra08 said:
I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's more or less impossible unless you managed to corrupt the first few EMMC blocks that contain the apx mode code. Which you have to know what you're doing to wipe.
Boot into apx mode, install the naked apx driver, then use Easyflasher to flash back to stock

ultmontra08 said:
In my haste to, you know, have the newest version of Android running on my Transformer, I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer. There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ultmontra08 said:
I would not have spent so much of my time rooting and testing ROMs to make sure I have a consistent user experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ultmontra08 said:
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't need to update Android unless it's a big jump like going from Honeycomb to Ice Cream Sandwich going to all that trouble to Root, Install a custom Recovery, Install a custom ROM for a minor update like Jelly Bean is silly what could you possibly need from Jelly Bean that Ice Cream Sandwich can't already do I bet the only reason is "It's the latest" and Asus are officially going to release Jelly Bean for the Transformer.
ultmontra08 said:
There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately if you want to use something other then the stock ROM it's a process of trial and error I tried Android Revolution HD ROM for example (popular ROM) and had problems with my Transformer not responding in sleep mode and random reboots I found that Cyanogenmod was stable for my device every device is different so the trial and error process is unavoidable.
ultmontra08 said:
IMO, the fault is split between Google and the hardware manufacturers. Google should force manufacturers to ship phones and tablets with stock Android. It is Google's system and they should have the control to do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ultmontra08 said:
I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google Android is licensed as an open source operating system so Google doesn't have any power to tell manufactures they can't make their own version of Android to sell with their hardware or when you receive updates that's all the manufacturer.
ultmontra08 said:
since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Asus have actually been great with Android updates for the Transformer just a bit slow.
ultmontra08 said:
The manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves for not being able to release an update to the latest OS within a few weeks of the release, jellybean, and on a tablet that was only launched in the US in April 2011.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't understand that it takes time to develop and test a new operating system on a device the process isn't as simple as you think it is you wouldn't want to suddenly get an update from Asus and then be complaining that it's unstable would you?.
ultmontra08 said:
there has yet to be a legitimate twitter, Facebook tablet app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are using a Tablet the screen is wide enough to be able to acceptably use a web browser for these tasks so you don't really need a specific App developed, it's really only necessary for Mobile due to small screens.
ultmontra08 said:
I look at Apple; the structure and consistency they have in regards to software updates. The first gen iPad received updates until iOS 5 for two years. Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you prefer Apple feel free to switch but while having a range of hardware options does have it's down falls it gives you and developers more freedom and choice where as Apple will always have a small limited choice range.

Just get a Windows Phone or Windows 8 tablet. I am too, one of those who are totally sick about Android.
You know, I bought Asus Transformer TF101 right on launch and YOU HAVE NO idea how excited I am. But things started to change after using it for a day, lags, crashes, limited apps.
I've been waiting and waiting for months before ICS came, but a lot of issues are still left unresolved. Asus firmware is very prone to crashes.
I've been flashing ROM after ROM and wasted so many days on this... No way I will ever get an Android again.

LastBattle said:
Just get a Windows Phone ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Talk about limited apps...

Eh, the way I look at it, ill have this tablet forever and by the time its so scratched and old I can give it to my kids and I can get the latest and greatest NEXUS having learned my lesson buying non NEXUS.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda app-developers app

im on jb rom from team EOS, this is the only jb rom i use until now. using nova launcher makes it almost perfect buttery smooth (perfect without Widgets on the screen) .
it's easy to find good rom without having to try all of them. just read people's comment. go to last page and see how many complaints user's has.

Using the EOS build 74 with KAT 1.4 and nothing else yields a Transformer that works perfectly for me minus the GPS. I know that people with the dock have a different set of issues but honest, my TF with EOS and KAT runs better than any stock ROM. The difference is amazing. Web browsing is very very fast, I can play all my 720P videos via SMB streaming with BSplayer.
So after more than a year my TF works as I expected it to out of the box.

ultmontra08 said:
I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried Wheelie?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1676845

Android Revolution HD and be done with it. Why the need for the latest and greatest when you can use what works? I used to be an HTC fanboy, until I got the mytouch 4g slide. I hated that phone so much. I love Sense, but just the phone was.... eh. I'm very happy with my Galaxy S3. I feel like I should have opted for the Nexus, but I'm happy with my purchase.
I still have a G1 sitting on my dresser with a charged battery just in case I feel like rockin it oldschool. I'm an OG Android user. Been using android ever since the release of the G1. I do love vanilla android, but what Samsung did with TouchWiz is just short of amazing. I used to run MIUI on my HTC Vision, I ran it for a few hours on my S3, and had to go back to TouchWiz!!
And what was posted earlier, why are you using apps on a tablet when the browser works perfectly for all those websites? Apps are more of a phone thing, screen sizes sub-5"

The update from Honeycomb to ICS was a huge one and we got it, it was not bug free but good enough to get developers working. JB is not that big update unless you need Google Now.

wow i dont know where to start. i really dont want to turn this into an ios vs android flame war. but youre completly out of your mind. first of all you have to look at it from the carriers, hardware manf, and googles point of veiw.
now hardware manuf. , and carriers have it in their best interest to not release updates for all the previous gen devices from a year or two ago, even if they are capable of running the new versions. this way the new devices look more attractive to current and potential customers.
another thing is that you cant really compare the updates from iphone-iphone3g-iphone3gs-iphone4-iphone4s-iphone5-and probably in a couple months the iphone5s that wont do anything more exciting than the last model did. same thing with the ipads. before you know it you have a drawer full of iphones that look the same and dont really do anything different.
then you have android. approx 800,000 new android devices are activated every day. EVERY EFFIN DAY. now thats insane.
how many devices that didnt originally come with ios can now run ios better than they ran their org stock os? for example there are tons of devices that came stock with windows mobile/symbian/webos etc etc and they can now run many different versions of android.
my htc HD, my htc HD2, my hp touchpad, and those are just the ones ive owned. theres tons of others that were given new life because of android and the dev community.
another thing that doesnt make sense is how you can blame google, and the hardware manufacturers and the carriers for 3rd party apps that they have no involvement in. there are millions of developers making millions of apps for millions of devices. its not googles job to make sure they run perfectly on every device. thats the deveolpers fault if facebook app works better on one device than it does on another.
you see iphone and ipad apps dont really have that problem because all the devices are exactly the same. screen size/resolution doesnt change very much at all, and new features are a bore. "oh yay the new iphone can make face time calls over a cell connection and isnt limited to wifi anymore" so what they should have been able to do that years ago.
its also not googles or the hardware manuf. fault if you knowingly go against their waranty terms and screw up your device. thats the risk you knew was there. and its part of the learning process. things like unlocking bootloaders, building custom roms, modifying hardware, cross compiling drivers and kernels, overclocking, and overall getting he most out of your device, is not for kids.
yes the typical ios fanboy just wants to get his facebook updates and be able to locate the nearest starbucks, or genius bar, just by asking siri.
but the android dev comunity and the devices they work on are doing it right. why should you be told what you can and cant do with your device? why should you pay more for a device that only does less. why should you sleep on the sidewalk for 7 days to be first in line to get the new lame updated iphone that costs double and doesnt do double.
the hp touchpad is a great example of an awesome device that was on sale for 99-150 dollars from hp. it currently runs ICS like a champ, and will be getting JB roms that rock. i also have a tf101 asus that runs JB eos like WHOA! overclocked on both cores, awesome tegra2 chip. expandable memory, AND A NORMAL HEADPHONE PORT AND USB PORT. even a nice little hdmi port. its an old device already and it still blows he doors off any current gen ipad.
then theres the newer mk802 devices and hackberry A10 boards that will do anything a high end smartphone will do for 50 bucks and hooks right up to your tv. LETS see apple tv or roku do that.
bottom line is that you dont understand how this really works, and youre getting frustrated and giving up instead of learning and becoming better and the tech.
YOU EITHER MASTER TECHNOLOGY OR TECHNOLOGY WILL MASTER YOU!! thats all for now.
---------- Post added at 10:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------
redrol said:
Using the EOS build 74 with KAT 1.4 and nothing else yields a Transformer that works perfectly for me minus the GPS. I know that people with the dock have a different set of issues but honest, my TF with EOS and KAT runs better than any stock ROM. The difference is amazing. Web browsing is very very fast, I can play all my 720P videos via SMB streaming with BSplayer.
So after more than a year my TF works as I expected it to out of the box.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah i just updated with eos jb rom today and its so much faster than the stock asus ics rom. i was really surprise, because its still got a ways to go.
---------- Post added at 11:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 PM ----------
Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just to clarify a couple of things. There's no such thing as Android Manufacturers. well i guess with the exception of googles devices that they release is as close as you could come to calling them and android manufacturer, but the rest are not Android manufacturers. and when you think about it the screen sizes are usually pretty consistent even across different hardware manuf. you had 2.8"/3.5"/3.8"/ 4.2's were common for a while. now youre seeing mini tablet/phones in the 4.7-5+ range. but there arent that many sizes to worry about development wise. same with tablets. 7"-8"-9.7"-10.1" etc etc. same with the cpu and gpu arcitecture. you got your arms, your tegras, your mali 400's, etc etc theres an android device for everyone for anything.
i also love how my buddies iphone 5 wont display netflix properly or pandora correctly on the new screen size/dimension. maybe the iphone5s ver. 2.1 will have fixed that. in a couple years.
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware and they are running terrible skinned versions of the OS. I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the general public doesnt care that their phones arent getting the newest rom/kernel versions although alot of them do. android seems to realease new versions as the hardware advances. they grow with the advancing power and abilities of devices. you wouldnt really expect a first generation tmobile g1 to run the latest jellybean version would you? its almost as if the hardware cannot really come out faster than the os to support it. everytime you hear of a new android version theres a whole new generation of way better spec'd devices that shortly follow. sorta opposite of apple, they release devices that are barely on par with devices that were released over 6 months ago or longer. if carriers dont want o update devices in order to entice customers to upgrade then i understand that. theyre in business to make a profit. i really dont see how restricting and limiting android would help in any way at all. thats the great thing about android. its just linux with a few things on top. and that is the nail in the coffin right there. unlimited customization and hackability.

haxin said:
YOU EITHER MASTER TECHNOLOGY OR TECHNOLOGY WILL MASTER YOU!! thats all for now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AMEN!