Database Users

Can I Ota update while rooted on stock firmware

I am currently on stock rom but rooted. An Ota update popped up can I update without bootloop

I would like to know the same thing

Naruto101 said:
I am currently on stock rom but rooted. An Ota update popped up can I update without bootloop
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Click to collapse
stkman32 said:
I would like to know the same thing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you can't take an OTA if you have any modifications to /system (root). Have a look at my guide:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-6p/general/guides-how-to-guides-beginners-t3206928

I got an 8MB update for the november patch. Being on TWRP and root i need to convert back to stock before i can have it leave me alone? Is there a way to flash the patch without doing that?

Thanks for answering my question

roughriduz said:
I got an 8MB update for the november patch. Being on TWRP and root i need to convert back to stock before i can have it leave me alone? Is there a way to flash the patch without doing that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No way around it, any modifications will cause the update to fail.

Heisenberg said:
No way around it, any modifications will cause the update to fail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@amoeller had me flash the modified boot.img for MDB08M then flash the MDB08M system.img and vendor.img from the factory image. I rebooted bootloader, the booted to TWRP and re-flashed supersu. I am now on the November patch without having to remove TWRP and all works well. My user data was also untouched.

roughriduz said:
@amoeller had me flash the modified boot.img for MDB08M then flash the MDB08M system.img and vendor.img from the factory image. I rebooted bootloader, the booted to TWRP and re-flashed supersu. I am now on the November patch without having to remove TWRP and all works well. My user data was also untouched.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
User data should never be affected during an OTA anyway.

This is actually the first time I've unlocked a phones bootloader and stuck with the stock rom. I usually use some kind of popular rom with it's own built in OTA (CM/Viper One)
How often do you guys actually update your phones for OTA? It seems like a real hassle

GloriousGlory said:
This is actually the first time I've unlocked a phones bootloader and stuck with the stock rom. I usually use some kind of popular rom with it's own built in OTA (CM/Viper One)
How often do you guys actually update your phones for OTA? It seems like a real hassle
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am rooted now so I'll wait a while before updating an ota until there's a big deal of info. However, in the past if I was sticking with stock there's usually at least one developer who posts the updates with root and stuff built in so you can easily flash with twrp. So I'm kind of waiting for that. That or cataclysm or another awesome rom that's close to stock.

GloriousGlory said:
This is actually the first time I've unlocked a phones bootloader and stuck with the stock rom. I usually use some kind of popular rom with it's own built in OTA (CM/Viper One)
How often do you guys actually update your phones for OTA? It seems like a real hassle
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wait for factory image for that build and flash over the new images when they become available (provided that root can still be achieved). Some will do a clean wipe and start fresh with the new build and reload in their apps and user data, others will just dirty flash the updated system (and boot/bootloader or whatever else was changed too).
If you think about it, it really isn't all that different from taking an OTA, the difference is that we're applying the commands to flash instead of having it automated. It's not that big of a trade off in my book.

I have 2 questions...
What is the easiest way to make flashing updates a breeze if I have mods in /system partition? I have heard of "freezing" them. Or is the only option... to delete every mod and flash updates? If so, should I keep a note of every change I make to/system?
And last... Should I make a backup of any file i am replacing or overwriting in /system? And if so, do I have to put them back how they were before flashing an update?

Delete

If you're rooted then you need to download the full factory image, extract system and vendor and flash those. Reflash SuperSU.

roughriduz said:
@amoeller had me flash the modified boot.img for MDB08M then flash the MDB08M system.img and vendor.img from the factory image. I rebooted bootloader, the booted to TWRP and re-flashed supersu. I am now on the November patch without having to remove TWRP and all works well. My user data was also untouched.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It’s probably easier and quicker just to flash stock factory images separately instead of having to jump through hoops with OTAs. Like I told @roughriduz just flash the updated partition(s) that were updated like system.img, vendor.img, or whatever and just flash SuperSU in TWRP after.
The steps @roughriduz took was
1. Download and extract latest factory image.
2. Download matching modified boot.img for that build (For example MDB08M).
3. Flash system, vendor, and any other partitions (like radios, etc) with fastboot if they were updated in the OTA. Don’t bother to flash stock recovery because we’re not using an OTA. Flashing userdata.img is just like a factory reset.
4. Boot directly into TWRP and flash SuperSU.
5. Reboot and profit.
This method gives you the latest stock build rooted with TWRP while keeping your data because I hate having to redo my phone.

amoeller said:
It’s probably easier and quicker just to flash stock factory images separately instead of having to jump through hoops with OTAs. Like I told @roughriduz just flash the updated partition(s) that were updated like system.img, vendor.img, or whatever and just flash SuperSU in TWRP after.
The steps @roughriduz took was
1. Download and extract latest factory image.
2. Download matching modified boot.img for that build (For example MDB08M).
3. Flash system, vendor, and any other partitions (like radios, etc) with fastboot if they were updated in the OTA. Don’t bother to flash stock recovery because we’re not using an OTA. Flashing userdata.img is just like a factory reset.
4. Boot directly into TWRP and flash SuperSU.
5. Reboot and profit.
This method gives you the latest stock build rooted with TWRP while keeping your data because I hate having to redo my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A couple questions:
1. Step 1 refers to the latest factory image that contains the update, correct?
2. Step two refers to the boot.img that contains root?
3. At what point in this process do you flash the modified boot.img, before or after applying the other images?
Thanks for your help!

JimmyJunk said:
A couple questions:
1. Step 1 refers to the latest factory image that contains the update, correct?
2. Step two refers to the boot.img that contains root?
3. At what point in this process do you flash the modified boot.img, before or after applying the other images?
Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Latest factory image is the latest factory image from the nexus factory images page. It's not an update like ota, but rather the entire image they would return you to stock if all is flashed.
2. Flashing a modified boot does not give you root. You still have to flash SU, so saying the modified boot contains root isn't right.
3. I flash boot first unless there is an updated bootloader.

JimmyJunk said:
A couple questions:
1. Step 1 refers to the latest factory image that contains the update, correct?
2. Step two refers to the boot.img that contains root?
3. At what point in this process do you flash the modified boot.img, before or after applying the other images?
Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. This can be whatever the latest factory image is at the moment. It’s currently MDB08M. All the OTA does is update your phone to whatever build it was made for. Factory images already have previously released updates built into them. You can upgrade but avoid downgrading unless you want to factory reset your phone.
2. I’m referring to the boot.img without root by @mrRobinson found https://www.androidfilehost.com/?fid=24269982086992320 although this process can be used for systemless root also. For systemless root you wouldn’t flash SuperSU in TWRP but instead sideload the SuperSU APK as per Chainfire’s instructions and use the matching systemless root boot.img
3. I don’t think it matters but as long as you have the matching modified boot.img with the system.img installed before you restart, you should be fine.

amoeller said:
It’s probably easier and quicker just to flash stock factory images separately instead of having to jump through hoops with OTAs. Like I told @roughriduz just flash the updated partition(s) that were updated like system.img, vendor.img, or whatever and just flash SuperSU in TWRP after.
The steps @roughriduz took was
1. Download and extract latest factory image.
2. Download matching modified boot.img for that build (For example MDB08M).
3. Flash system, vendor, and any other partitions (like radios, etc) with fastboot if they were updated in the OTA. Don’t bother to flash stock recovery because we’re not using an OTA. Flashing userdata.img is just like a factory reset.
4. Boot directly into TWRP and flash SuperSU.
5. Reboot and profit..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What the heck did I do wrong here? I just tried to apply the November OTA update to my MBD08K build, it didn't work, and now I am in the process of doing a full reset and rebuild of my phone (flash-all of factory images from Google)
Here are the notes I made as I attempted to follow the procedure in this thread:
Code:
- Download latest build for MBD08K from https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images?hl=en
- Extract boot.img, system.img, vendor.img to C:\adb (or wherever where adb and fastboot are
installed). You have to
- Right-click, open command window here
- Ensure USB debugging is enabled on phone (grant permissions on phone if you get the popup)
- In command prompt, "adb devices"
- Should see serial number and "device"
- type "adb reboot bootloader"
- Should get to bootloader screen with little android man lying down with hatch open
- type "fastboot devices" - should see your serial # again and "fastboot" beside it.
- type "fastboot flash boot boot.img"
- type "fastboot flash system system.img"
- type "fastboot flash vendor vendor.img"
- Use volume keys to boot into recovery (in my case TWRP)
- Swipe to allow modifications
- Install -> SuperSU.zip that you should have on your phone from last time.
- Reboot system
I saw a red "your phone is corrupt" scary message on startup... took a while to boot. Couldn't get past the dancing circles.
Interrupted boot, rebooted to fastboot, tried to flash old modified boot.img
Booted again, got encryption unsuccessful warning
Flashed most recent boot.img again, stuck booting forever
try again:
- flash system.img
- flash vendor.img
- flash boot.img (modified)
reboot to recovery - your device can't be checked for corruption (yellow warning instead of red)
- swipe to allow modifications
- reboot with TWRP, swipe to install SuperSU
- Encryption unsuccessful. Prompt to factory reset. Click OK. Boots through TWRP.
Give up, start flashing factory images.
EDIT: I might be the stupidest person alive. I think I should have been using the files for MDB08M. Arggghhhh. Someone please confirm I am an idiot.
Edit 2: Factory reset worked, I am at MDB08M. Now rooting again... grr. At least I backed up all my apps & settings to Google Drive with TB.
Edit 3: Rooted and restoring all apps with TB. If anyone has any insight into where I F'ed up I'd appreciate it.

apply OTA to rooted phone?

i have an unlocked rooted but otherwise stock G4P and it has an OTA but fails to install. Is there a full ROM I can apply which won't wipe? Or some other way which is not involving a full wipe?

nigelhealy said:
i have an unlocked rooted but otherwise stock G4P and it has an OTA but fails to install. Is there a full ROM I can apply which won't wipe? Or some other way which is not involving a full wipe?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried, failed, and eventually gave up. I haven't had the motivation to do a full wipe/flash, but I tried everything else I could think of before giving up.

hp420 said:
I tried, failed, and eventually gave up. I haven't had the motivation to do a full wipe/flash, but I tried everything else I could think of before giving up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you tryied reinstall the full stock rom & recovery (through Fastboot) without wipe?

rafaelrgi said:
Did you tryied reinstall the full stock rom & recovery (through Fastboot) without wipe?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had a twrp backup of my system partition, which I restored, then fastboot flashed the stock kernel, and wiped caches. Safetynet passed, but the ota would not flash. It said there was an unexpected change in the system, or something to that affect.
I'm not aware of any true, untouched flashable rom zip available. I suppose it wouldn't take long to make one, I just didn't have one available to me.

hp420 said:
I had a twrp backup of my system partition, which I restored, then fastboot flashed the stock kernel, and wiped caches. Safetynet passed, but the ota would not flash. It said there was an unexpected change in the system, or something to that affect.
I'm not aware of any true, untouched flashable rom zip available. I suppose it wouldn't take long to make one, I just didn't have one available to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To install the OTA update the stock recovery is required, and Twrp is a custom recovery.... after restore the backup you should reinstall the stock recovery before apply the OTA.

rafaelrgi said:
To install the OTA update the stock recovery is required, and Twrp is a custom recovery.... after restore the backup you should reinstall the stock recovery before apply the OTA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry, didn't see you were asking about fastboot. no, I didn't flash the factory image. I didn't want to go that far and didn't really care enough to do a full wipe

Have you tried Magisk? Could potentially work

hp420 said:
I had a twrp backup of my system partition, which I restored, then fastboot flashed the stock kernel, and wiped caches. Safetynet passed, but the ota would not flash. It said there was an unexpected change in the system, or something to that affect.
I'm not aware of any true, untouched flashable rom zip available. I suppose it wouldn't take long to make one, I just didn't have one available to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A TWRP backup restore doesn't fix the issue. You have to reflash SYSTEM , BOOT(if modified), RECOVERY(if modified), and OEM through fastboot. That is a "block flash," instead of TWRP, which is "file based restore."

apply OTA to rooted phone
Could someone please give me this zip ota moto g4 play I need this file since I thank you.

VR25 said:
A TWRP backup restore doesn't fix the issue. You have to reflash SYSTEM , BOOT(if modified), RECOVERY(if modified), and OEM through fastboot. That is a "block flash," instead of TWRP, which is "file based restore."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about other partitions :
gpt, bootloader, adspso, modem
Must they be restored ?
Just after OTA, is it possible to make a raw image backup with TWRP in R/O mode ?

hamelg said:
What about other partitions :
gpt, bootloader, adspso, modem
Must they be restored ?
Just after OTA, is it possible to make a raw image backup with TWRP in R/O mode ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You only need to restore SYSTEM, OEM, BOOT AND RECOVERY images. That's all you'll ever need. NEVER touch other partitions, unless you are upgrading.
To make RAW image backups of SYSTEM and OEM partitions, use terminal in TWRP
Or "adb shell" from your computer (running as root)
adb shell
ls -al /dev/block/platform/soc/7824900.sdhci/by-name
This command will give you the names of the SYSTEM and OEM partitions of your device, Moto G4 Plus. For example, for Moto Z Play (my device), they are mmcblk0p53 and mmcblk0p51 respectively.
So, the commands would be (again, that's an example for MOTO Z PLAY):
Backup
dd if=/dev/block/mmcblk0p53 of=/sdcard/system.img
dd if=/dev/block/mmcblk0p51 of=/sdcard/oem.img
Restore
dd if=/sdcard/system.img of=/dev/block/mmcblk0p53
dd if=/sdcard/oem.img of=/dev/block/mmcblk0p51

Thanks much VR25.
With your help, I have successfully applied the latest OTA

hamelg said:
Thanks much VR25.
With your help, I have successfully applied the latest OTA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Confused. The VR25 guidance is when you had taken a full backup when stock, how to restore back to stock to then apply the OTA. You are describing how to apply the OTA on a rooted device without a pre-rooted backup?

You don't need backups to apply the latest OTA.
Get the stock corresponding to your device.
flash LOGO, SYSTEM, OEM, BOOT AND RECOVERY images.
Apply November OTA
Apply February OTA
I did that without wiping my data.
If you want to avoid reset to stock & apply all OTAs, you must have a binary backup of system partition, not a file based backup (see comment #8).
I asked about this issue here :
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72029402&postcount=55

hamelg said:
You don't need backups to apply the latest OTA.
Get the stock corresponding to your device.
flash LOGO, SYSTEM, OEM, BOOT AND RECOVERY images.
Apply November OTA
Apply February OTA
I did that without wiping my data.
If you want to avoid reset to stock & apply all OTAs, you must have a binary backup of system partition, not a file based backup (see comment #8).
I asked about this issue here :
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72029402&postcount=55
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where is the stock for my device
Where is the OTA for my device
My device is the USA unlocked G4P XT1607

nigelhealy said:
Where is the stock for my device
Where is the OTA for my device
My device is the USA unlocked G4P XT1607
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly this question, but then the XT1602. Flashed the stock parts, but no message of an OTA and they are nowhere to be found. Or does anyone have latest stock version full ROM?

TheEvilVirus said:
Exactly this question, but then the XT1602. Flashed the stock parts, but no message of an OTA and they are nowhere to be found. Or does anyone have latest stock version full ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, others were just saying too high a level to not actually helpful. As I did this last week I'll tell you now is as step by step as I can to actually try to be helpful.
Firstly you need to know you will wipe data, there's no avoiding it, that I could find so backup everything, that can be a mix of TWRP backup of data to SDCARD external, USB OTG, or Titanium backup to online / SD / OTG. In my case I prefer to simply install everything and configure everything from scratch.
Follow this guide to return to stock.
In my case I'm on Ubuntu Linux desktop, fastboot got a "no permissions" type message so I had to sudo in front.
The stock for your device, well look at your device Status page now before you start, Settings -> About Phone -> it says Software Channel "retus" so when I go to the list of ROMs in the above guide go to mirrors.lolinet.com - firmware - moto - harpia - official - then I went to Retus, you'd go to a different one probably.
Note these are old stock ROMs I think from September so there have been one or two updates since then.
Follow the step by step guide, basically lots of fastboot commands.
The step where it says fastboot oem lock it bawks and say fastboot oem lock begin and that will do another wipe, so given a later fastboot oem unlock would do a 3rd wipe I didn't do the oem lock, I left mine unlocked and that worked fine.
Let it boot, setup, you will then be in an old stock ROM, then if it doesn't offer to do an update, go into Settings, System Updates, and trigger it to look. It will then download and apply a stock OTA ontop of the stock ROM. In my case it was 1 OTA, 1 update, then that that complete. You then are on stock current ROMs.
Then root and whatever you want.
But note, to get to the impending N OTA, you'll probably have to right back to the top here because your rooted Moto G4 Play will likely refuse the future OTA as the system is modified, so you'd have to repeat, return to an old stock ROM and then let it go through the 1 or 2 or 3 OTAs to get to that future release.
Hence you'd be doing the return to stock twice.
If the mirrors could be updated to newer stocks it would bypass the OTA. My other phone - the OnePlus3T they offer mirrors of full ROMs, they are far easier to use because if you are rooted you download the full ROM not just the delta incremental of the change of the OTA, and then you can flash in recovery the full ROM and it ignores the system state, and no wiping of data. The fact the mirror site is out of date is causing the need to wipe so the OTAs work on an unmodified system.
Fortunately I have multiple phones so I can use another for the few hours this all takes.

works great, I just flash it and without wiping data
hamelg said:
You don't need backups to apply the latest OTA.
Get the stock corresponding to your device.
flash LOGO, SYSTEM, OEM, BOOT AND RECOVERY images.
Apply November OTA
Apply February OTA
I did that without wiping my data.
If you want to avoid reset to stock & apply all OTAs, you must have a binary backup of system partition, not a file based backup (see comment #8).
I asked about this issue here :
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72029402&postcount=55
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
works great and finally my phone can upgrade the OTA updates:laugh::good:

VR25 said:
To make RAW image backups of SYSTEM and OEM partitions, use terminal in TWRP
Or "adb shell" from your computer (running as root)
...
Restore
dd if=/sdcard/system.img of=/dev/block/mmcblk0p53
dd if=/sdcard/oem.img of=/dev/block/mmcblk0p51
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is time to apply the may OTA MPIS24.241-15.3-21.
I restored the vanilla system.img MPIS24.241-15.3-16 with dd, but it didn't work. The OTA failed with the error "system partition has unexpected content" because the sha1sum was incorrect.
Here is the solution :
Before restoring with dd, you must check "Mount System partition read only" is enable in the MOUNT menu of TWRP.
With TWRP 3.1, you need no more to use dd. Now, the feature "system image backup" is available

MotoG4+ XT1644 6.01 to 7.0 Saga (for others to avoid)

OK Please note (4-25-17) this message is a work in progress, as I slowly restore my system.
This is a listing and hopefully helpful listing of what I did (right and wrong)
in upgrading my Systemless-rooted (suuser) phone from 6.01 to 7.00 (nougat)
# 1. it did not work, and I went back to 6.01 successfully using the twrp recovery
I have previously used Bender's guid (here) to get the system-less root on 6.01.
essentailly, here's the best plan. Use the Minimal ADB and Fastboot package (MADB &F) (here)
(Explanation: the MADB&FB package will allow you do do LOTS of stuff related to updating your phone, with very little grief.)
it also includes the ability to automatically "push" a package over your usb connection if the ZIP file doesnt load right. **THIS will come in handy later!
Once MADB&F is installed, make note of your directory, and then make sure you start your dos window (for pc users) as an administrator!
BTW, if I HADN'T made the "TWRP backup" of my system, I'd be Sh*t out of luck right now...", because I screwed up the 7.0 upgrade.
the technical problem was that I had no data, no modem, no way of getting data/voice in/out.
SIMPLY using the TWRP restore fixed me!!!
(so far, we have MADB&FB, downloaded and bender's (chainfire) rootless guide.
Next you want to download the current firmware image for your phone. This will be a lifesaver, I promise!
3) Download a TWRP image (this will MAGICALLY load on your pc when you tell it you need help! Look HERE
(Athene is the Motorola Codename for the motoG4+)
3) copy the athene TWRP image into your madb&FB directory to make it easy to load
4) next, (you still haven't touched your phone yet, you realize: (skipping some basics here, you can search here on XDA to find more info)
a) plug your phone into your pc
b) make sure you are a developer
c) make sure your phone shows you are connected to your pc for file transfers, NOT for charging
5) in your MADB&FB directory, (aka a dos/(admin) window) type the following:
all commands at this point will take place in whatever directory you installed Minimal ADB & Fast boot (MADB&FB)
Connect your phone to your PC and open MADB&FB, check the connection with:
adb devices
return should include your "serial-no" and "device".
6) next, on pc, tell the system to reboot your phone to the bootloader!
Reboot into bootloader with:
adb reboot-bootloader
and check again with:
fastboot devices
7) Next you are going to download TWRP to your phone (not permanently, just for a bit!)
fastboot. flash recovery twrp-3.0.2-0-athene.img
Now you have TWRP (Team Windows RECOVERY PROJECT) loaded.
SO.. THIS is where you create a backup of your current stuff using the backup options.
NEXT:
take the suUser2.78 (stateless rooting), and once your backup is done, install it from TWRP
Then (I was) back to 6.01 rooted.
NEXT: 7.0 and then rooting... (will update tomorrow)
did a successful upgrade to 7.0,
then unsuccessfully tried to sideload supersu2.78, which bricked loader
then downgraded again to 6.01 (and rooted again, ok)
will continue tomorrow.
need working phone for now..
cheers to all, and to all, a happy spelunking!

You can't root factory Nougat as is, it is well encrypted.
You need to replace first the kernel with the ElementalX one, or you will end up with bootloops.
Only after that you can do SuperSU, but only with the latest beta.

A few pointers from your story:
1)As you've found out the hard way, you won't be able to update to Nougat if you have root and/or TWRP, because the update requires a stock system - stock recovery, system and no modifications (bootloader status doesn't matter). In other words, you'll need to unroot and restore your stock recovery - might be easier to reflash the stock system, probably the quickest way to flash a stock ROM (and update to Nougat) is to use the fastboot ROM. https://forum.xda-developers.com/moto-g4-plus/how-to/moto-g4-plus-xt1640-43-athene-npj25-93-t3549369 Of course, this will remove root and TWRP, as well as potentially wipe your data, so back up accordingly. This should flash the NPJ25.93-14 build on your device, which appears to be the latest global build.
1a)Also, if you flash Nougat this way, your bootloader and GPT partitions will be updated, so if you wish to downgrade to Marshmallow at any point, when flashing do not flash these partitions from the Marshmallow ROM. Fastboot should stop you, but a brick may occur if these get flashed.
1b) You may find in the Guides section TWRP backups of Nougat builds, I don't recommend using these to update your system with. Granted, they have most of the Nougat system in a TWRP backup, but some crucial firmware (e.g. the baseband) is not included, and may cause you issues if your device is not formally flashed to Nougat.
2) As SoNic67 has already mentioned, the stock kernel security will cause your device to bootloop should you choose to try to root following the Marshmallow method. If you wish to use SuperSU, follow this guide: https://forum.xda-developers.com/mo...de-root-moto-g4-plus-supersu-android-t3587918 You may wish to use a more up to date TWRP than the official 3.0.2 (I recommend shrep's TWRP 3.0.3 n4 here:https://forum.xda-developers.com/mo...covery-twrp-3-0-2-r3-moto-g4-g4-plus-t3494337) Whatever you do, ensure you flash first the ElementalX kernel before you flash the SuperSU v2.79 SR3 beta (https://forum.xda-developers.com/apps/supersu/2014-09-02-supersu-v2-05-t2868133), or apply the systemless fix with earlier SuperSU versions as directed in the aforementioned rooting with SuperSU guide. Else you'll be having bootloops or your device will not boot whatsoever. Here's my steps in successfully rooting Nougat: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=71817346&postcount=225. Good luck either way.

echo92 said:
A few pointers from your story:
[...]
1b) You may find in the Guides section TWRP backups of Nougat builds, I don't recommend using these to update your system with. Granted, they have most of the Nougat system in a TWRP backup, but some crucial firmware (e.g. the baseband) is not included, and may cause you issues if your device is not formally flashed to Nougat.
[...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After updating my US retail xt1644 to nougat, by restoring totally-stock marshmallow then taking the OTA, I wiped data and made a *complete* TWRP backup using @Shreps' unofficial 3.1 TWRP build (https://moto.shreps.fr/Moto G4 (athene)/recovery/twrp-3.1.0-athene_shreps.img).
This version of TWRP allows backup/restore of the full set of firmware partitions including baseband, DSP, etc.
In other words, I believe the TWRP backup folder in the following .zip file provides a one-stop path to the latest xt1644 USRET firmware by doing a restore from TWRP 3.1.0.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4XobQzgZVHyRTlmSDMtYkdZeUU/view?usp=drivesdk
My only uncertainly is if the ota process modified the partition table in a way that might make this backup image incompatible with the xt1644 still in the marshmallow state.
I've often wondered if I (or a more skilled enthusiast) couldn't build a TWRP-flashable .zip that would setup the partition table, update the baseband, etc. This is what I've grown used to from devs on other phones I've had, but perhaps there's something about the way moto does things that makes this problematic.
Sent from my Moto G4 Plus using Tapatalk

bmeek said:
After updating my US retail xt1644 to nougat, by restoring totally-stock marshmallow then taking the OTA, I wiped data and made a *complete* TWRP backup using @Shrep's unofficial 3.1 TWRP build (https://moto.shreps.fr/Moto G4 (athene)/recovery/twrp-3.1.0-athene_shreps.img).
This version of TWRP allows backup/restore of the full set of firmware partitions including baseband, DSP, etc.
In other words, I believe the TWRP backup folder in the following .zip file provides a one-stop path to the latest xt1644 USRET firmware by doing a restore from TWRP 3.1.0.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4XobQzgZVHyRTlmSDMtYkdZeUU/view?usp=drivesdk
My only uncertainly is if the ota process modified the partition table in a way that might make this backup image incompatible with the xt1644 still in the marshmallow state.
I've often wondered if I (or a more skilled enthusiast) couldn't build a TWRP-flashable .zip that would setup the partition table, update the baseband, etc. This is what I've grown used to from devs on other phones I've had, but perhaps there's something about the way moto does things that makes this problematic.
Sent from my Moto G4 Plus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice one, hopefully that'll help more XT 1644 users I'm still not sure if TWRP can backup/flash the baseband by itself, but I don't have a XT 1644 to test. I imagine your backup will need a clean flash (wipe data/cache/Dalvik) to work?
The OTA process does update the partition table, but as far as I know, that should not prevent you from flashing back to Marshmallow/Nougat as you wish, so long as you did not try to downgrade the GPT/bootloader.
There was an effort to create TWRP flashables of the stock ROMs a little while ago (you can see the thread here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/moto-g4/development/fxz-athene-twrp-flashable-fastboots-t3562147) which if I understood it created flashable radios and ROMs from the firmware files we have. We can't touch the GPT/bootloader since, as I recall, you need a signed stock firmware to do so (and besides, downgrading GPT might be asking for a brick). I recall some users mention they were able to run Nougat TWRP flashes on the MM bootloader/GPT without issue.
There were issues with simply flashing the Nougat 93-14 radio baseband files for some US users, losing LTE in the process and appears the only resolution was to flash the stock ROM - I don't know what the cause was (perhaps no/incorrect CDMA support in the radio files?). Your TWRP flash is from a US based phone so may have better luck in that department, and will likely behave on your device since that OTA has updated all the firmware on your device that TWRP isn't able to touch. I still am not sure if we can use this TWRP backup to update on a MM device without issue, but only one way to find out...

Help with soft brick

Hi guys,
I got the ASUS Zenfone 3 Zoom and started playing with it. Unfortunately I managed to soft brick it and somehow I can't go back to stock. Here are all the things I did. I would be happy to get any ideas what to try next:
1. unlocked the bootloader - using asus's official unlock tool
2. flashed twrp recovery - twrp-3.2.1-0-Z01H-20180304.img, using:
adb reboot bootloader
fastboot flash recovery twrp.img
3. updated asus's firmware to the latest official one:
copying UL-Z01H-WW-71.60.139.30.zip onto internal memory
android detects the update and applying it using android
4. Enabling lock pattern at boot (from android settings). Correct pattern required even when booting into recovery
5. Installing supersu via twrp:
adb reboot recovery
installing supersu
wiping caches (the cache partition cannot be wiped)
6. SuperSu working (tested via android)
7. Reading about Magisk. Trying to install magisk via twrp. Magisk's installer complained that the system is not vanilla (due to SuperSu modifications). Have to uninstall SuperSu to return to previous state.
8. Tried uninstalling SuperSu from the program itself (in android). The uninstaller got stuck. The phone become unresponsive and had to reboot.
9. Found a script packaged as an executable zip (to be installed via twrp) that will uninstall SuperSu and return system to pristine state (SuperSu makes a backup of the files it changes before installation) - UPDATE-unSU-signed.zip. Uninstallation worked.
10. Magisk installation still complained about the bootloader. Then things started to go wrong. I unpacked the latest firware UL-Z01H-WW-71.60.139.30.zip, took out boot.img and tried to flash just the bootloader
fastboot flash boot boot.img
11. Upon reboot the phone got stuck at the ASUS logo. Reboot into recovery and into fastboot still works (soft brick). Still shows unlock pattern at boot.
12. I tried flashing the original firmware using TWRP (install a zip). However the installation threw some errors. Unsuccessful.
13. I've tried flashing the system.img from the original firware using fastboot but still it's stuck at the ASUS logo at boot.
fastboot flash system system.img
Here I am stuck. I've read that TWRP cannot install properly the ASUS official firmware but if you flash the original recovery, it can probably flash it properly. Another thing that I think might explain why I cannot get out of the soft brick is that I've enabled the lock pattern at boot, which effectively encrypted some parts of the phone and I have a strong feeling this interferes with the boot process. I will look for a script/installable zip (via twrp) that can remove the lock.
I really need ideas/suggestions before I make something that will turn my phone into a hard brick. Thanks.

What you need to do is flash stock MM recovery from bootloader using "fastboot flash recovery recovery.img"
Since it came with MM preloaded you'll have to install the ROM using stock recovery via adb. It'll take a while, but after that you should upgrade to the latest MM update.
After that, update to any Nougat patch update you wish to receive, because I still haven't figured out yet how to apply them all with @shakalaca's recovery images.
Once you're done, you can install twrp again and flash magisk.
Good luck and hope this helped you

Thanks
+)KEV1N(+ said:
What you need to do is flash stock MM recovery from bootloader using "fastboot flash recovery recovery.img"
Since it came with MM preloaded you'll have to install the ROM using stock recovery via adb. It'll take a while, but after that you should upgrade to the latest MM update.
After that, update to any Nougat patch update you wish to receive, because I still haven't figured out yet how to apply them all with @shakalaca's recovery images.
Once you're done, you can install twrp again and flash magisk.
Good luck and hope this helped you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks,
I tried to find a stock recovery images but unsuccessful. Can you tell me where to get it from?

Here's a link to Shakalaca's recovery images.
In the Old folder you'll find MM stock recoveries.
https://mega.nz/#F!p90wgAaY!l1JbJilmAUEKTKWu43pT9w!I89QgZpK
Flash 11.40.86.75 recovery
Boot into recovery
Flash 11.40.86.75 stock rom via adb (it'll take a while)
Once it's done, boot into Android.
Download your respective region's latest MM rom.
Send it to your micro sd.
Install it once Android detects the update file.
(It won't work with custom recovery. I tried every recovery Shakalaca has and only those two seem to work)
Once on the latest MM rom install any nougat patch update you wish to apply, because once you have a nougat rom, you can't boot stock recovery. (As far as my testings went)
So if I were you, I'd go for any update after the zenui 4.0 update since it's a bit better looking imo.
After that final update you can flash TWRP to root your phone. I prefer using magisk, since it doesn't modify the system files.
All you need to do is flash magisk and that's it. No need for SuperSU or anything else. And by any means, do NOT wipe your cache partition once you flash TWRP, otherwise you'll get stuck on the Asus logo during boot.
If you wish to retain the "certified" status in google play store's device certification, do NOT go into the play store before installing magisk. Also, don't delete play store data, otherwise you'll lose your previous purchases.
This post was longer than I initially thought it'd be, but I guess this sums it up pretty well.
Good luck

+)KEV1N(+ said:
Here's a link to Shakalaca's recovery images.
In the Old folder you'll find MM stock recoveries.
-- [link] removed due to XDA regulations
Flash 11.40.86.75 recovery
Boot into recovery
Flash 11.40.86.75 stock rom via adb (it'll take a while)
Once it's done, boot into Android.
Download your respective region's latest MM rom.
Send it to your micro sd.
Install it once Android detects the update file.
(It won't work with custom recovery. I tried every recovery Shakalaca has and only those two seem to work)
Once on the latest MM rom install any nougat patch update you wish to apply, because once you have a nougat rom, you can't boot stock recovery. (As far as my testings went)
So if I were you, I'd go for any update after the zenui 4.0 update since it's a bit better looking imo.
After that final update you can flash TWRP to root your phone. I prefer using magisk, since it doesn't modify the system files.
All you need to do is flash magisk and that's it. No need for SuperSU or anything else. And by any means, do NOT wipe your cache partition once you flash TWRP, otherwise you'll get stuck on the Asus logo during boot.
If you wish to retain the "certified" status in google play store's device certification, do NOT go into the play store before installing magisk. Also, don't delete play store data, otherwise you'll lose your previous purchases.
This post was longer than I initially thought it'd be, but I guess this sums it up pretty well.
Good luck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I managed to flash 11.40.86.75 and stock ROM using your instructions. I will look now into updating and applying magisk. Just a final question. You mentioned to install Nougat patch update and not a full firmware, but my phone came preloaded with Nougat. Will this be a problem? I installed stock 71.60.139.30 and it worked fine (i was able to boot into twrp).

mollonado said:
Thanks, I managed to flash 11.40.86.75 and stock ROM using your instructions. I will look now into updating and applying magisk. Just a final question. You mentioned to install Nougat patch update and not a full firmware, but my phone came preloaded with Nougat. Will this be a problem? I installed stock 71.60.139.30 and it worked fine (i was able to boot into twrp).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry I misread your comment. I'm updating to the latest ROM and installing TWRP. Thanks for the help.

mollonado said:
Sorry I misread your comment. I'm updating to the latest ROM and installing TWRP. Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad to help!
---------- Post added at 01:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:30 PM ----------
mollonado said:
Thanks, I managed to flash 11.40.86.75 and stock ROM using your instructions. I will look now into updating and applying magisk. Just a final question. You mentioned to install Nougat patch update and not a full firmware, but my phone came preloaded with Nougat. Will this be a problem? I installed stock 71.60.139.30 and it worked fine (i was able to boot into twrp).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It came preloaded with Nougat? Interesting.

+)KEV1N(+ said:
Glad to help!
---------- Post added at 01:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:30 PM ----------
It came preloaded with Nougat? Interesting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi I managed to flash stock ROM - 71.60.139.30, but after that I can't flash twrp - twrp-3.2.1-0-Z01H-20180304.img. I tried with:
adb reboot bootloader
fastboot flash recovery twrp.img
but when I try to boot into recovery with:
adb reboot recovery
it goes into the stock recovery. Is there something I missed? Do I need to downgrade to flash TWRP?

mollonado said:
Hi I managed to flash stock ROM - 71.60.139.30, but after that I can't flash twrp - twrp-3.2.1-0-Z01H-20180304.img. I tried with:
adb reboot bootloader
fastboot flash recovery twrp.img
but when I try to boot into recovery with:
adb reboot recovery
it goes into the stock recovery. Is there something I missed? Do I need to downgrade to flash TWRP?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quick question: which of these warnings do you get when you boot?
https://www.androidauthority.com/go...rrupted-and-modified-android-software-629180/
Also, did you try power cycling to get it to boot?
And since the version number made such a large jump, I believe they must have changed something internally with the latest update and that it's probably going to be one of the last Nougat updates before Oreo (which was delayed until June).
I still need to update to that version to check it out, but I might reset soon since I was waiting for Oreo to reset.

+)KEV1N(+ said:
Quick question: which of these warnings do you get when you boot?
https://www.androidauthority.com/go...rrupted-and-modified-android-software-629180/
Also, did you try power cycling to get it to boot?
And since the version number made such a large jump, I believe they must have changed something internally with the latest update and that it's probably going to be one of the last Nougat updates before Oreo (which was delayed until June).
I still need to update to that version to check it out, but I might reset soon since I was waiting for Oreo to reset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the Orange warning. It looks a bit different but the wording is the same. Yes, i tried powercycling and still I boot into the stock recovery. What can I do now? Is it possible to downgrade? I am not sure if I boot into stock recovery if it will let me flash an older stock ROM.

mollonado said:
I have the Orange warning. It looks a bit different but the wording is the same. Yes, i tried powercycling and still I boot into the stock recovery. What can I do now? Is it possible to downgrade? I am not sure if I boot into stock recovery if it will let me flash an older stock ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read here - https://android.gadgethacks.com/how-to/twrp-101-install-best-custom-recovery-for-android-0179547/
that once you flash twrp Android upon next reboot might overwrite it with the stock recovery. Is that possible?

mollonado said:
I read here - https://android.gadgethacks.com/how-to/twrp-101-install-best-custom-recovery-for-android-0179547/
that once you flash twrp Android upon next reboot might overwrite it with the stock recovery. Is that possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, how did you flash TWRP exactly? Using that guide? Or flashed through bootloader?
And to answer your question: yes, it happens sometimes.

+)KEV1N(+ said:
So, how did you flash TWRP exactly? Using that guide? Or flashed through bootloader?
And to answer your question: yes, it happens sometimes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, I managed to get around it by directly booting into TWRP from fastboot. Yes, apparently unless I flash some TWRP files to the system partition upon next reboot, the recovery will return to stock. Anyway, I managed to install Magisk and Exposed framework and have been poking with those two for the last couple of days.
The youtube vanced app is great, but I found something that worries me. I can't login to facebook/twitter. I checked and the reason is I can't connect to the facebook.com or twitter.com https sites (even over chrome). I think either:
- I've installed some module which is messing with that
- my rooted phone is hacked
I've installed a module that is meant as ad blocker, that updates the hosts file. However I removed all modules and the problem remains. I really don't wanna start all over again just to check. And even if I reflash and it works, I will not know what caused it and how to fix it myself next time. Do you have any ideas on how to figure out what the problem is?
Regards,

mollonado said:
Hi, I managed to get around it by directly booting into TWRP from fastboot. Yes, apparently unless I flash some TWRP files to the system partition upon next reboot, the recovery will return to stock. Anyway, I managed to install Magisk and Exposed framework and have been poking with those two for the last couple of days.
The youtube vanced app is great, but I found something that worries me. I can't login to facebook/twitter. I checked and the reason is I can't connect to the facebook.com or twitter.com https sites (even over chrome). I think either:
- I've installed some module which is messing with that
- my rooted phone is hacked
I've installed a module that is meant as ad blocker, that updates the hosts file. However I removed all modules and the problem remains. I really don't wanna start all over again just to check. And even if I reflash and it works, I will not know what caused it and how to fix it myself next time. Do you have any ideas on how to figure out what the problem is?
Regards,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off, my apologies for this late reply (Been superbusy with school and internship assignments)
Secondly, and that is why I only use magisk. Because once you mess with the host file, depending on what module you install, it can range from tripping safetynet to bootlooping.
So quick question, is it still in this state right now since 9 days ago?
Greetings,
Kevin

+)KEV1N(+ said:
Here's a link to Shakalaca's recovery images.
In the Old folder you'll find MM stock recoveries.
https://mega.nz/#F!p90wgAaY!l1JbJilmAUEKTKWu43pT9w!I89QgZpK
Flash 11.40.86.75 recovery
Boot into recovery
Flash 11.40.86.75 stock rom via adb (it'll take a while)
Once it's done, boot into Android.
Download your respective region's latest MM rom.
Send it to your micro sd.
Install it once Android detects the update file.
(It won't work with custom recovery. I tried every recovery Shakalaca has and only those two seem to work)
Once on the latest MM rom install any nougat patch update you wish to apply, because once you have a nougat rom, you can't boot stock recovery. (As far as my testings went)
So if I were you, I'd go for any update after the zenui 4.0 update since it's a bit better looking imo.
After that final update you can flash TWRP to root your phone. I prefer using magisk, since it doesn't modify the system files.
All you need to do is flash magisk and that's it. No need for SuperSU or anything else. And by any means, do NOT wipe your cache partition once you flash TWRP, otherwise you'll get stuck on the Asus logo during boot.
If you wish to retain the "certified" status in google play store's device certification, do NOT go into the play store before installing magisk. Also, don't delete play store data, otherwise you'll lose your previous purchases.
This post was longer than I initially thought it'd be, but I guess this sums it up pretty well.
Good luck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I made a mistake and could not install recovery stock, I followed what you wrote in the beginning install MM recovery and so I did a hard reset and I was able to install the most current recovery stock and installed ROM Oreo, Thanks. Sorry, I'm on google translator.

Patched Boot from latest OTA 10.0.3.0

Hello everyone
Someone in the russian forum (4pda) shared this patched boot from january ota
I flashed it and the device booted correctly without facing any problem, now magisk works again
Link to download : https://mega.nz/#!R5NAgQKJ!yfm886jSAA_x1raUzxRlq-t53AFjaFvU7Q_AH-fXRlY

Tested and it works. Thanks

help
guyz my adb cant load the patched boot img even when it is in the same folder any help plss

veddeomi said:
guyz my adb cant load the patched boot img even when it is in the same folder any help plss
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Put the patched boot in adb folder
Reboot your phone into fastboot mode
Then open cmd : fastboot flash boot patched_boot_3.0.img

you can save ur time by using the below toolkit
https://forum.xda-developers.com/mi-a2/development/tool-mi-a2-xtrem-toolkit-t3879660
and just download Magisk from XDA and use the tool to install it using the ADB Sideload.
that is what i did and worked perfectly on Pie after Jan Update.

Does it work with v10.2 ?
Or i must update to v10.3 to flash this patch ?

beny ms said:
Does it work with v10.2 ?
Or i must update to v10.3 to flash this patch ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
U have to update first

Abrilabr said:
U have to update first
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay ,thanks mate

i flashed it successfully but i get bootloop. this patch not working my phone

Oline1032 said:
i flashed it successfully but i get bootloop. this patch not working my phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should unlock your phone's bootloader first
And update to 10.0.3.0

medkim said:
You should unlock your phone's bootloader first
And update to 10.0.3.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude bootloader is unlocked

Oline1032 said:
dude bootloader is unlocked
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
are you in january patch ?
it's weird, your phone should boot normally, maybe you missed something

i was on 10.0.2.0.PDIMIFJ with unlocked bootloader and patched boot.img. when OTA update is avaiable, i restored boot.img using Magisk and installed the update, then patched boot.img again using Magisk.
After reboot, phone keeps restarting while showing Android One screen.
Then I flashed this patched 10.0.3.0, but phone is stuck at Android One screen (there should be moving color bar)
Now I'm trying to downgrade to 10.0.2.0.PDIMIFJ using MiFlash without erasing user data
Edit: still boot loop at Android One screen after flashing 10.0.2.0.PDIMIFJ without erasing user data. Phone shows the Android recovery screen with error message "can't load Android system. Your data may be corrupt. If you continue to get this message, you may need to perform a factory data reset and erase all user data stored on this device"

HRSE said:
i was on 10.0.2.0.PDIMIFJ with unlocked bootloader and patched boot.img. when OTA update is avaiable, i restored boot.img using Magisk and installed the update, then patched boot.img again using Magisk.
After reboot, phone keeps restarting while showing Android One screen.
Then I flashed this patched 10.0.3.0, but phone is stuck at Android One screen (there should be moving color bar)
Now I'm trying to downgrade to 10.0.2.0.PDIMIFJ using MiFlash without erasing user data
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have encountered the same problem.
It seems like there is something wrong with the encryption of the phone because I need to format the userdata partition to stop the bootloop.

Fulva said:
I have encountered the same problem.
It seems like there is something wrong with the encryption of the phone because I need to format the userdata partition to stop the bootloop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good for you that you are still on 10.0.3.0
Now my phone is wiped, and back to 10.0.2.0. I gained nothing and lost too much.

HRSE said:
i was on 10.0.2.0.PDIMIFJ... Edit: still boot loop at Android One screen after flashing 10.0.2.0.PDIMIFJ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My jasmine 6/128 was on 10.0.2.0.PDIMIFJ, unlocked, rooted - Magisk with Modules, /system partition changed, automatic .Updates disabled
Thus, checking for January OTA and seeing that it is ready, I made these steps:
1. downloaded stock 10.0.2.0.PDIMIFJ http://en.miui.com/download-353.html (actually, I made it much earlier);
2. flashed it in fastboot preserving /data (there is "flash_all_except_data.bat" in unpacked ROM directory);
3. rebooted, downloaded OTA 10.0.3.0, installed OTA, rebooted without bootloop;
4. used phone for a while (root gone, all user applications, except for 1 rather specific, working - including Nova, phone calls, SMS, etc, OK);
5. Took patched boot image from 4pda, and booted it into phone in fastboot ("fastboot boot pached_boot.img"); NOTE: not flashed, but booted for safety!
6, As phone was working OK with booted patch, I started Magisk and "installed" it; thus Magisk patched my stock 10.0.3.0 boot in phone, and saved original stock in /data partition.
7. after reboot I had everything restored - Magisk modules and su, root permitions for applications, etc.
P.S. Seems like 10.0.3.0 PDIMIXM OTA is withdrawn by Xiaomi due to numerous bootloops in stock phones.
So if you already updated to this OTA, use these attachments at your own risk, or better wait for 10.0.4.0

Aerobatic said:
My jasmine 6/128 was on 10.0.2.0.PDIMIFJ, unlocked, rooted - Magisk with Modules, /system partition changed, automatic .Updates disabled
Thus, checking for January OTA and seeing that it is ready, I made these steps:
1. downloaded stock 10.0.2.0.PDIMIFJ http://en.miui.com/download-353.html (actually, I made it much earlier);
2. flashed it in fastboot preserving /data (there is "flash_all_except_data.bat" in unpacked ROM directory);
3. rebooted, downloaded OTA 10.0.3.0, installed OTA, rebooted without bootloop;
4. used phone for a while (root gone, all user applications, except for 1 rather specific, working - including Nova, phone calls, SMS, etc, OK);
5. Took patched boot image from 4pda, and booted it into phone in fastboot ("fastboot boot pached_boot.img"); NOTE: not flashed, but booted for safety!
6, As phone was working OK with booted patch, I started Magisk and "installed" it; thus Magisk patched my stock 10.0.3.0 boot in phone, and saved original stock in /data partition.
7. after reboot I had everything restored - Magisk modules and su, root permitions for applications, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
somehow my phone doesn't show the january OTA update anymore (it was still there a few hours ago!)

Hey guys if i root using patched boot image will i still be able to install updates?

one08 said:
Hey guys if i root using patched boot image will i still be able to install updates?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you should restore stock boot first

one08 said:
Hey guys if i root using patched boot image will i still be able to install updates?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you can receive updates, but only if you did not made any changes to system files !