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1- why can't I run stock Google android on my phone ala Nexus one- and update as a nexus one would . A link as i am not afraid to read.
2- what happened to the guy who's video I saw that was close to running stock android on his vibrant.
chkn said:
1- why can't I run stock Google android on my phone ala Nexus one- and update as a nexus one would . A link as i am not afraid to read.
2- what happened to the guy who's video I saw that was close to running stock android on his vibrant.
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You need drivers.
The CM6 project is dedicated to getting relatively stock Android running on the Vibrant.
chkn said:
1- why can't I run stock Google android on my phone ala Nexus one- and update as a nexus one would . A link as i am not afraid to read.
2- what happened to the guy who's video I saw that was close to running stock android on his vibrant.
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Click to collapse
1). As reuthermonkey stated, it's down to hardware drivers. Even though AndroidOS itself is open with source code available, this is not always the case with the drivers the OS needs to access functions on a given phone. Most of the drivers for any device (phone or otherwise) are proprietary. Samsung, HTC, Motorola, Huawei, LG, Sony...these companies have to PAY for drivers from chipset/soc manufacturers to integrate them into their devices and as such the code for those drivers isn't necessarily freely available. To gain access to these proprietary drivers is a tedious process of reverse engineering.
2). The process of getting most phones "close to running stock android" is a careful process of ripping apart a given phone's OS and cobbling together 3rd party or AOSP project tools/apps to approach being a "vanilla android" feeling experience. Many of these "custom roms" are great, but it can equally be said that most of them are personal projects made by people who love to tweak things to their liking, and not necessarily made to be great for everyone. And most of these stay in a perpetual state of beta-ness. Cyanogenmod CM6 is really the only well developed project dedicated to truly bringing the vanilla android experience to phones at the moment, and then only to phones that CM devs actually have in hand as it's an entirely volunteer project. Be grateful our phone is soon to be blessed with CM6.1.
chkn said:
1- why can't I run stock Google android on my phone ala Nexus one- and update as a nexus one would . A link as i am not afraid to read.
2- what happened to the guy who's video I saw that was close to running stock android on his vibrant.
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Click to collapse
Basically what would need to happen is someone take the source from Google. With that source you need to find a way to basically make all of your drivers (Samsung's Galaxy S Vibrant drivers) work with the android platform. It's not an easy process of adapting drivers to something else, it sounds like oh yeah include the drivers and you'll be good right? Unfortunately it's not as easy as just plug and play.
On the second note, i'm pretty sure what your thinking of is Eugene's Vanilla Rom he's been putting together.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=757000&highlight=Vanilla
It looks like he's got some good progress and there is a download going for it. I don't think it's something he's focusing on either. I think the main reason why is with Froyo coming sooner or later there's really no reason to invest time in a 2.1 vanilla rom with as much work that goes into building it from source.
Hope this answers your questions. BTW, as a reference, there is a Q&A forum which would be a better place to put this Question.
Eugene's AOSP 2.1 Port is dead. And rightly so, no need wasting time getting 2.1 AOSP running on the device.
On a side note however, another developer has jumped in to help CM 6.1 reach Vibrant. And it might take a long long time before G2 has any kind of custom rom support.
Let me start by saying I'm fairly new to Android, and that this probably should go in a general Android forum, but since I'm a Fascinate user, this seems appropriate to me. I've searched, but haven't found a real explanation, and I'm not one to take things as fact without a reasonable explanation.
So it seems like everyone is waiting for an official 2.2 release for the Fascinate, flashing 2.1 ROMs but not capable of upgrading to 2.2+; but I'm wondering why we can't just compile our own OS for our phones? Android is a Linux-like OS, and I know Linux users would never stay on an old version if a newer (better?) version was available. I'm talking down-and-dirty tweak-every-option-by-hand Slackware here. Is the source available for download? If so, why can't we do something with it? Is something in the phone completely locked and unhackable? Is it the fear of having a $500 paperweight? Is it difficult to regain Verizon network connectivity?
Again, forgive the noob question, and thanks in advance for any help you can give me!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=792986
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=883004
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882946
There is currently work being done by jt, birdman, and the other skew of developers trying to develop a working AOSP version of 2.2/2.3. The biggest struggle that they have encountered was the RIL (Radio Interface Layer) binaries. Samsung produced some bogus complex proprietary binaries with no properly working source code. Because this phone is CDMA and not GSM, we can't simply use galaxy s files.
Anyways, the point is that there is work being done to bring it to our phone. They have a working AOSP 2.1 that is currently in alpha stage. Jt basically built his own RIL for this phone to get it working.
If this RIL works, we may end up with 2.3 sooner than later.
eulipion2 said:
Let me start by saying I'm fairly new to Android, and that this probably should go in a general Android forum, but since I'm a Fascinate user, this seems appropriate to me. I've searched, but haven't found a real explanation, and I'm not one to take things as fact without a reasonable explanation.
So it seems like everyone is waiting for an official 2.2 release for the Fascinate, flashing 2.1 ROMs but not capable of upgrading to 2.2+; but I'm wondering why we can't just compile our own OS for our phones? Android is a Linux-like OS, and I know Linux users would never stay on an old version if a newer (better?) version was available. I'm talking down-and-dirty tweak-every-option-by-hand Slackware here. Is the source available for download? If so, why can't we do something with it? Is something in the phone completely locked and unhackable? Is it the fear of having a $500 paperweight? Is it difficult to regain Verizon network connectivity?
Again, forgive the noob question, and thanks in advance for any help you can give me!
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You obviously have not searched hard enough, as this has been discussed in many places. I would suggest you start by searching this forum (edit: or seeing the links and posts above).
I will say, however, that recent achievements by (edit: the developers mentioned above) have made your suggestion quite possible. If you want to get a taste of what is to come, see the aosp alpha sticky located in the development section. The rom still has bugs, but it is a giant step forward for the Fascinate.
Sent from my Galaxy-S Fascinate
Florynce said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=792986
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=883004
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882946
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^^^^^
10char
I must add/point out that the work these guys are doing could easily pave the way for Cyanogenmod- and other well-featured roms to be compiled/ported and used on Fascinate as well.
I've read the above links, but they didn't really quite answer my question. I guess I'm wondering why a Linux-based OS isn't acting/being treated like a Linux-based OS.
Let's say I go out and buy a new computer today. I want to put Linux on it. I get the machine home, download my distro of choice and make an install cd. As I'm installing, I configure the installation either for my specific hardware or I can use a generic profile if my hardware isn't listed.
Now say a new version of the Linux kernel comes out. I can upgrade without having to wait for a version for my hardware. Or if I install MyDistro v1 when I get my machine, and MyDistro v2 comes out the next day, I don't have to wait for someone to develop a version to work with my hardware.
So my question is more of a why can't we upgrade our distro like other Linux variants? Is it because there's no generic replacement for the Samsung RIL? If I were to download the source and do a generic build, or even a specific one, I wouldn't be able to install it because...?
Sorry to be a pain, but I genuinely have no clue. Again, thank you for the insight!
2.2 will boot on the I500 just nothing works. If you would like to help http://opensource.samsung.com/
The source code can be found there. Please feel free to help the development along.
I suggest you read through the reply's to your question and pay special note to those bringing up the RIL as that seems to be the biggest hurdle right now.
I think maybe the answer you are looking for is that it is possible to do it, it's just extremely difficult because Samsung's open source is very shoddy and isn't based on AOS, which is what is used for most other phones.
Since the developers don't have a build that works, they have to work from the ground up with AOS and get every last feature on the fascinate working without using Samsung's code (TouchWiz, widgets, etc).
The links they gave you explain most of it but you have to sift through the posts. There is a dev named jt (amongst others) who is working on a ROM that is upgradable based on AOSP and it looks very promising.
edit: It's also worth noting that when I say "not based on AOS" I mean that it is proprietary software used by Samsung-only phones and is not coded by Google. It still, of course, is based on Android OS. It would be akin to a ROM coded by Samsung for their phones rather than generic ROMs that could be downloaded by other phones.
Perfect, thanks!
Try thinking of it as buying an Ubuntu laptop from dell. Sure its " Ubuntu" but not stock. It so full of bloat and badly written drivers that aren't supplied openly for the user that it would be hell trying get the latest version of ubuntu to run on it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
For clarification.... so I can wrap my brain around this. Is this situation kinda like having bought a new computer that's running an os, but has no installed device drivers and nowhere to download them from, so they have to be written by hand?
Edit: that last post came thru while I was writing this one, I think it basically answers my question...
So what the devs on here are trying to do is develop a "generic" profile that can work on our phone (as well as others?), creating a solid base to allow users to upgrade and change at-will without having to wait for official releases?
See, that's the part I'm having a hard time with. No generic profile built into the OS to use in the absence of a hardware specific one?
LoverBoyV said:
Try thinking of it as buying an Ubuntu laptop from dell. Sure its " Ubuntu" but not stock. It so full of bloat and badly written drivers that aren't supplied openly for the user that it would be hell trying get the latest version of ubuntu to run on it.
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Click to collapse
On a sidenote, I bought a Dell netbook witih Ubuntu. Didn't waste time with Ubuntu, but I chose it because I didn't want MS to get money from a license fee. Installed Mac OS X on it the day it arrived
Ya know, I tried to do the same thing with my inspiron 1525 notebook, with snow leopard 10.6.3 since I have a spare hard drive. Spent a whole day with numerous guides, trying this n that. Got it to actually boot to the desktop once, bit as I was putting the drivers in, it went into KP and from that point on, I could never even reinstall back to the desktop again.
Well, Samsung is giving us a simple/reliable update to Froyo with unique functionality, as soon as possible.
Source: (Twitter, About 12pm 1/2/2011 from Samsungtweets via Cotweet - http://twitter.com/Samsungtweets/samsung-usa )
Samsungtweets We are working to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available to all U.S Galaxy S owners as soon as possible.
Samsungtweets We want Galaxy S owners to have simple/reliable upgrade. We r running tests due to complexity/unique functionality
EDIT: gave more specific time and source of tweets. Post is meant to be objective, without definition of ASAP for this context.
Swyped w/ XDA App. When in doubt, mumble.
soba49 said:
Well, Samsung is giving us a simple/reliable update to Froyo with unique functionality, as soon as possible.
Source (Twitter, 6 hours ago):
Samsungtweets We are working to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available to all U.S Galaxy S owners as soon as possible.
Samsungtweets We want Galaxy S owners to have simple/reliable upgrade. We r running tests due to complexity/unique functionality
Swyped w/ XDA App. When in doubt, mumble.
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I'm not sure if this is meant to be funny or not haha. Are those recent tweets?
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
They seem to post the same things over and over, of course this is also because people constantly ask when is froyo coming, and every time they say there is no definite date. It is coming soon that that is all they will say; yelling, moaning and crying isn't gonna make it come any sooner, just sit back and it will eventually come.
So, let me start off by saying that I have searched, read and spent time trying to understand this... but still don't. Which answers why I'm posting this question.
First, what exactly is the reason that an AOSP rom is being developed and a Vanilla Froyo ROM is being developed?
Is the AOSP rom the important one here? Does the working AOSP rom with working kernel mean that we would have 2.2, 2.3.... and so on supported regardless of Samsung?
I understand that Samsung has not supported tremendously up to this point, I understand 2.2 has not been released for the CDMA version yet, and I understand the code they have released is "crappy." When I hear everyone talk about the great work the devs are doing, are they referring to mainly working on the AOSP? If this rom is built, will we be able to just keep developing it for the new versions of Android?
Sorta like in Back to the future when they break off the real timeline and go into the alternate 1985?
Samsungs Android - 2.1, 2.2.... EOL
Dev's Android - 2.1, AOSP, 2.2, 2.3?
Is this how it works? Basically just trying to understand what needs to happen for the Fascinate to get to at least 2.3... not WHEN or even IF it'll get to 2.3.
Thanks
AOSP means Android Open Source Platform.
It's a version of Android built entirely from sources provided by Google. It's completely Vanilla and comes with zero customer or manufacturer customizations. It's easily root-able, and able to be customized completely by the user if desired.
AOSP ROMs are desirable because they tend to be a bit faster and lighter due to their lack of crapification.
AOSP builds are only distributed in their complete and compiled form by Google for their developer handsets (Currently the Nexus One and Nexus S), and not by any carrier or manufacturer.
Okay, I appreciate that definition... I think I've gotten what AOSP is exactly... but I guess my question is does AOSP have any involvement in a future for this phone if Samsung decides to close its doors. Is a working AOSP, radio, kernel... whatever basically devs developing a future of this phone parallel to whatever Samsung does for it?
Like, I see from other threads that the ROM for Froyo and Gingerbread isn't necessarily the problem, its the radio and the RIL? If that is the case, what needs to happen for everything to figured out and for us to have a bright future for the Fascinate? Samsung has to release code for the RIL and radio? Are we SOL without Samsung helping here or will the devs definitely figure something out to get 2.2, 2.3... and so on for the Fascinate?
Bwangster12 said:
Okay, I appreciate that definition... I think I've gotten what AOSP is exactly... but I guess my question is does AOSP have any involvement in a future for this phone if Samsung decides to close its doors. Is a working AOSP, radio, kernel... whatever basically devs developing a future of this phone parallel to whatever Samsung does for it?
Like, I see from other threads that the ROM for Froyo and Gingerbread isn't necessarily the problem, its the radio and the RIL? If that is the case, what needs to happen for everything to figured out and for us to have a bright future for the Fascinate? Samsung has to release code for the RIL and radio? Are we SOL without Samsung helping here or will the devs definitely figure something out to get 2.2, 2.3... and so on for the Fascinate?
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Click to collapse
It's kinda like building an office park, or strip mall or something. You toss up the basic vanilla buildings, and when it's finally done, companies move in and tweak it how they deem fit.
With a working ASOP build, it'll remove some of the shackles of Samsungs bs code.
So... the AOSP build IS THE KEY here? I understand it isn't working yet, but if the devs get AOSP working, does that mean we will get a 2.2, 2.3 and so on regardless of what is released by Samsung?
I'm just trying to figure out what is happening to keep the G1, Droid, Droid 2... supported by ROMs like Cyanogenmod and others, that hasn't happened yet for the Samsung Fascinate.
I'd like to get the Fascinate, but am sorta waiting because I don't wanna be stuck with a phone for the next 2 years that will max out at MAYBE 2.2 if we are lucky.
I don't know where to start with your confusion.
Samsung has not given 2.2 to us. This means that we do not have froyo...
The RIL is an interface layer between the os and the radio. I'm not too sure about it, but anyways...
The developers are working around the fact that samsung has not given further tools that they need to get froyo ported over. Currently they are working on a 1.6 RIL to get froyo working. On another note, vanilla aosp is a good thing because it gives developers more freedom to customize the roms. It also allows for them to be able to port over other roms.
I really don't understand your confusion. If you want a better explanation , I recommend getting on irc.
If I were you, I'd wait. Next gen phones are coming from vzw in the next few months which will essentially blow the existing tech soon.
Bwangster12 said:
So... the AOSP build IS THE KEY here? I understand it isn't working yet, but if the devs get AOSP working, does that mean we will get a 2.2, 2.3 and so on regardless of what is released by Samsung?
I'm just trying to figure out what is happening to keep the G1, Droid, Droid 2... supported by ROMs like Cyanogenmod and others, that hasn't happened yet for the Samsung Fascinate.
I'd like to get the Fascinate, but am sorta waiting because I don't wanna be stuck with a phone for the next 2 years that will max out at MAYBE 2.2 if we are lucky.
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Click to collapse
Basically, that's the hope at least. If there are changes in say, 2.4 that require something that couldn't be hacked around with ASOP, we'll be stuck waiting for Samsung. But with a working ASOP, the groundwork is laid for updates to be ported over a bit more quickly by the devs.
Regardless of the future of this device, the Fascinate is one of the better Android handsets on the market. The screen is brilliant, it's the perfect size, and it's damn fast. The only thing that drags it down is the factory setup (although I personally think it's idiotic to ding the phone because of the inclusion of Bing like some people/reviewers have.)
I'm trying to understand what is going on instead of being one of the millions to ask about updates for this phone. I see phones like the droid series and read that they basically are being supported forever and then I see the Samsung Fascinate, and while I understand that the code is crappy/not released to community... I'm trying to figure out what needs to happen for it to be a supported device like the droids have been.
Bottom line, nothing at all is going to happen unless Samsung releases more than just a 2.2 update? If I see 2.2 drop like tomorrow, does that mean anything for a future, or is it just 2.2 update and we will just get devs releasing their versions of 2.2 roms?
RacerXFD said:
I really don't understand your confusion. If you want a better explanation , I recommend getting on irc.
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I read his questions as:
"Will a working ASOP build mean better developer support/faster developer released updates?"
I did skim them though.
RacerXFD said:
If I were you, I'd wait. Next gen phones are coming from vzw in the next few months which will essentially blow the existing tech soon.
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This is a good point. There's an LTE Samsung handset coming out soon, so it might be worth holding out for a little.
Although the Fascinate is no slouch.
Pretty much what I am asking. Like of everything that could possibly happen, Samsung releasing 2.2, AOSP being finished, blah blah what is the key that a consumer should look for to say...
"Well, now the Fascinate has no negatives to it and I have no fear that in a year, we won't still be stuck on 2.1 or 2.2 because Samsung screwed us."
Doesn't necessarily seem like Samsung needs to do MUCH to future this phones life and turn over the keys to the devs (like HTC seemingly has done), but I'm trying to understand what that thing is they need to do. Release a newer kernel, RIL, 2.2 ROM, some code that magically allows devs to port over future roms eternally...
I don't think I care if the phone has LTE capability. I won't get LTE and a regular 3G phone is beyond enough for me. LTE is zero impact for me.
Bwangster12 said:
Pretty much what I am asking. Like of everything that could possibly happen, Samsung releasing 2.2, AOSP being finished, blah blah what is the key that a consumer should look for to say...
"Well, now the Fascinate has no negatives to it and I have no fear that in a year, we won't still be stuck on 2.1 or 2.2 because Samsung screwed us."
Doesn't necessarily seem like Samsung needs to do MUCH to future this phones life and turn over the keys to the devs, but I'm trying to understand what that thing is they need to do. Release a newer kernel, RIL, 2.2 ROM, some code that magically allows devs to port over future roms eternally...
I don't think I care if the phone has LTE capability. I won't get LTE and a regular 3G phone is beyond enough for me. LTE is zero impact for me.
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What does SAMSUNG need to do? Release their source code, and not just incomplete parts of it.
Will that happen? I doubt it, but it might. Clearly the companies ears are perking up with all the yelling by the consumers.
What can we do in the meantime? Support the devs and wait for them to crank out a working ASOP build and Froyo.
Yes, would be nice to have a fully working AOSP build, and then Froyo... but they are seperate from each other right?
AOSP build is being done for 2.1? It can't just be magically updated to 2.2 can it? Does Froyo have to be officially released for them to update it to AOSP 2.2?
Basically... AOSP will only be updated to whatever version Samsung has released?
Bwangster12 said:
Yes, would be nice to have a fully working AOSP build, and then Froyo... but they are seperate from each other right?
Click to expand...
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No. Android Open Source Project means "Android" in general. It can be 2.1, 1.6, 2.3, whatever. The devs elected to start with 2.1.
AOSP build is being done for 2.1? It can't just be magically updated to 2.2 can it? Does Froyo have to be officially released for them to update it to AOSP 2.2?
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If you've followed anything in the dev folders, clearly not. JT's "Vanilla" Froyo looks like an AOSP build.
Basically... AOSP will only be updated to whatever version Samsung has released?
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No. At least not our version.
Bwangster12 said:
Yes, would be nice to have a fully working AOSP build, and then Froyo... but they are seperate from each other right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's hard to answer your question because AOSP and Froyo refer to two completely different things, which can be the same or separate.
AOSP is basically Android, built from clean, unmodified source code directly from Google, without any changes by carriers or manufacturer.
Froyo is simply the 2.2 version of Android.
So, you can have Froyo that's modified by a carrier and/or manufacturer. This wouldn't be AOSP. And you can have Froyo, built directly from Google code. This would be AOSP. You can also have Eclair (Android 2.1), or any other version of Android that's AOSP or not AOSP depending on whether it was built directly from Google code, or modified by a carrier or manufacturer.
AOSP doesn't refer to a single, particular version of Android, but the state of the code that was used to compile whatever version you want to talk about.
Bwangster12 said:
AOSP build is being done for 2.1? It can't just be magically updated to 2.2 can it? Does Froyo have to be officially released for them to update it to AOSP 2.2?
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A lot of the issue surrounds the kernel. When Google releases a new version of Android, it runs on a particular version of the kernel, which supports it's particular features. Manufacturers have to modify the kernel to support their particular hardware. So, since Samsung has only released source code for the kernel for Android 2.1, we're stuck on 2.1.
The versions of 2.2 from Kaos and JT are running on the Android 2.1 kernel that's been hacked to enable 2.2 to boot and run correctly. It works, but it's far, far from ideal. It doubles (if not more) the amount of work necessary to get 2.2 running, which is the reason for the rather slow pace of development.
So for your question, once Samsung releases 2.2 (the system and kernel), it'll be much easier to get an AOSP build of Android running, since the devs will only need to worry about the system instead of hacking together a kernel and RIL (radio interface layer) as well.
At least this is my understanding of the situation. I'm sure people with more knowledge and experience can correct me where I'm wrong, but I think this is the basic gist of it.
ChrisDDD said:
It's hard to answer your question because AOSP and Froyo refer to two completely different things, which can be the same or separate.
AOSP is basically Android, built from clean, unmodified source code directly from Google, without any changes by carriers or manufacturer.
Froyo is simply the 2.2 version of Android.
So, you can have Froyo that's modified by a carrier and/or manufacturer. This wouldn't be AOSP. And you can have Froyo, built directly from Google code. This would be AOSP. You can also have Eclair (Android 2.1), or any other version of Android that's AOSP or not AOSP depending on whether it was built directly from Google code, or modified by a carrier or manufacturer.
AOSP doesn't refer to a single, particular version of Android, but the state of the code that was used to compile whatever version you want to talk about.
A lot of the issue surrounds the kernel. When Google releases a new version of Android, it runs on a particular version of the kernel, which supports it's particular features. Manufacturers have to modify the kernel to support their particular hardware. So, since Samsung has only released source code for the kernel for Android 2.1, we're stuck on 2.1.
The versions of 2.2 from Kaos and JT are running on the Android 2.1 kernel that's been hacked to enable 2.2 to boot and run correctly. It works, but it's far, far from ideal. It doubles (if not more) the amount of work necessary to get 2.2 running, which is the reason for the rather slow pace of development.
So for your question, once Samsung releases 2.2 (the system and kernel), it'll be much easier to get an AOSP build of Android running, since the devs will only need to worry about the system instead of hacking together a kernel and RIL (radio interface layer) as well.
At least this is my understanding of the situation. I'm sure people with more knowledge and experience can correct me where I'm wrong, but I think this is the basic gist of it.
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Okay, thank you for this answer... this makes sense to me.
So, have HTC and Motorola released newer kernels for the devs of roms like Cyanogemod to update their ROMs, despite HTC and Motorola not actually releasing newer versions? I mean, how is the G1 updated as far as it has. Did HTC release a 2.2 kernel to allow devs to put 2.2 on it?
That's were I'm start confused as well.
I understand that Samsung has some proprietary kernel level code and drivers.
But, I'm curious what is the difference between Linux kernel versions used for different versions of Android. It doesn't sound like major version change and hence should not change anything dramatically. It should be mostly bug fixes. That's why jt was able to get kernel work.
As in relation to ASOP for SF, I see it like attempt to adapt Samsung code to current android interfaces. Once again, these interfaces should not change dramatically between versions, because these are evolutionary. So, I assume when done it is pretty much paved road up to 3.0 at least. That said some new features might not work at all, because we do not have working initial binaries from Samsung.
By the way mrbirdman has GB in progress.
Alright... so this may sound like I'm oversimplifying it, but I don't mean to.
Why can't the dev community just create a "custom" kernel to work with their versions of 2.2, 2.3 and so on? You say that they are working to hack the 2.1 kernel Samsung has released so it allows 2.2 to run on the Fascinate... but why can't they just make a 2.2 kernel? Is that sorta what Cyanogenmod is doing to get a 2.2 Froyo build to work on a G1?
Based on the amazing things I've seen the dev community do, building ROMs from scratch, I guess I don't understand how the kernel can't be built specifically for each new version... forgetting about what Samsung releases.
Bwangster12 said:
Why can't the dev community just create a "custom" kernel to work with their versions of 2.2, 2.3 and so on?
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Theoretically they could, it would just be a lot of work. Hardware drivers might not be compatible with the kernel version designed for 2.2 or 2.3. I don't think manufacturers are required to release the code for their drivers, so if a driver wouldn't work, one would need to be written from scratch, and without the detailed knowledge of the hardware itself, that is very difficult.
Hardware support is very integral to the kernel, so a kernel for one phone wouldn't run at all on another. So in addition to the difficulty of putting together a totally independent kernel, it would need to be done separately for each and every phone out there, and how many versions of the Galaxy S alone are there? How many HTC phones, how many Motorola and LG and Sony and so on.
It's just not realistic for people doing this, essentially, in their spare time.
So, what the devs generally do is wait until a carrier releases a version of Android (System, kernel, radio, etc.), and with all the hardware support in place and working, they can focus on building custom or AOSP versions of the system.
It's not that they couldn't build their own kernel, it's just a matter of practicality, audience and the shelf live of the particular phone. As it is, a new generation of phones are already either coming out or on the near horizon... and our phone is what, 4 to 5 months old?
Bwangster12 said:
Based on the amazing things I've seen the dev community do, building ROMs from scratch, I guess I don't understand how the kernel can't be built specifically for each new version... forgetting about what Samsung releases.
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The misunderstanding is in the complexity of compiling a custom system, and developing a custom kernel. They are hugely different in terms of complexity.
Think of a ROM as taking Windows 3.1 and simply tweaking the components that are installed by default - what accessories are installed, what wallpaper is selected, the color scheme of the windows. Not terribly complicated.
Think of the kernel as having to compile DOS, complete with custom drivers for all the hardware - CPU, graphics, memory, storage, multitouch, sound, radio, modem, WiFi, networking, power management, USB support, file system support, etc. all by hand.
I just picked up an S8+ for €524 (new). However I'm not allowed to have anything Google on my phone (not just apps, but Play Services). Nor do I want them really.
Since there still aren't any working AOSP ROMs, which of the 100s of modified stock ROMs (or N8 ports) are available where GoogleApps must be installed as a separate package (like AOSP)? Anyone have a list?
Don't want to waste time messing around removing it from ROMs that already have it baked in.
Lineage OS when it will have official support (no idea when)
Thanks, I'm aware that it (and Resurrection Remix etc etc) will. But rather strangely, in my view, there seems to be a huge disbalance in development efforts between stock and AOSP on the S8.
Anyway, regardless, in the mean time, I want a 'stock' / modified ROM that has no Google as standard.
From what I know...there is no AOSP rom that works completely for the s8 yet...
You can still root it and unistall anything inside from google from the stock rom, so that you keep all the functions without using google stuff
Per my first post, I'd rather not bother.
I'll just return the phone or sell it immediately if there really aren't any custom ROMs where G-Apps are installed separately. Aside from the initial bother, OTA updates tend to reinstall them, so it's a constant battle.
No AOSP roms for now. There's long way for Lineage or RR to become fully functional and bug-free. Just to remind the S6/S7 case.
I know, but surely there must be a few custom ROMs with no G-apps by default? There are literally hundreds.
mudnightoil said:
I know, but surely there must be a few custom ROMs with no G-apps by default? There are literally hundreds.
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Have a look at BatMan Rom v1.5. If I remember correctly you can choose to omit installing any G-apps via the Aroma installation.
Norup58 said:
Have a look at BatMan Rom v1.5. If I remember correctly you can choose to omit installing any G-apps via the Aroma installation.
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AFAIK removing Google Play Services (via Aroma) isn't an option. It's just the actual apps. Certainly it isn't an option in the screengrabs in that ROM or others.
Also, I assume like many other ROMs with G-apps baked in, OTAs complicate this, and they may never really be gone.
Thanks for the suggestion though.
Doubt very much you will find a Rom which fulfills your needs precisely.
An alternative is to use Titanium Backup or Package Disabler to get 'rid' of all Google things.
I remember there being a few in the Nexus 4 and 5 days, and some old Samsungs.
Haven't kept track of it recently, as have used stock CM / LOS in later years, so found it unnecessary.
Bump
To the OP I'd be happy to take stock from a backup and remove all Google apps entirely and upload it for all. Do you want it rooted or would you prefer to do so yourself? It would be. ROM and not odin specific. I too hate Google and have everything removed except Gmail play store and modded YouTube. Battary life is pretty amazing too.
Donations are always,welcomed for my work I do. Not needed but does aid me for my daily endeavours.
Sent from my G955F
mudnightoil said:
Bump
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No need to bump since you won't find anything, the formula for aosp is a Snapdragon cpu and an unlocked bootloader. You bought the wrong phone.
peachpuff said:
No need to bump since you won't find anything, the formula for aosp is a Snapdragon cpu and an unlocked bootloader. You bought the wrong phone.
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For the Nth time, if you're going to bother to reply, then at least read what I have written and explained in a number of posts.
Nowhere have I asked for AOSP. It'll come when it comes, but I need a fix in the mean time.
I am asking for a modified stock ROM with Google removed by default. Something that has existed in the past, and which it's incredible if it does not exist among the hundreds of modified stock ROMs for the S8 variants.
Also, Snapdragon certainly isn't a prerequisite for AOSP. Samsung released all the sources a while ago. Huawei (Kirin & slow to release any / all sources and unreleased drivers) have AOSP.
I think the main impediment is that the S8/S8+/Note8 have been very expensive. But given that an S8 can now be bought for the same or less than a 64GB OP 5T in Europe, and has obviously better hardware, I suspect there will be a great deal more development effort incoming. Per my original post, my S8+ cost €524 from one of the largest e-tailers in Germany. A 5T costs €499.
this.guy.lol said:
To the OP I'd be happy to take stock from a backup and remove all Google apps entirely and upload it for all. Do you want it rooted or would you prefer to do so yourself? It would be. ROM and not odin specific. I too hate Google and have everything removed except Gmail play store and modded YouTube. Battary life is pretty amazing too.
Donations are always,welcomed for my work I do. Not needed but does aid me for my daily endeavours.
Sent from my G955F
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That's very kind. The only problem I foresee, as mentioned earlier, is that removing Google from a ROM which doesn't have a maintained Google-free version means that every significant OTA update is likely to 're-infect' the system.
I think the most likely chance of success is a minor fork of ICE / BatMan / Renovate (i.e. one of the most popular modified stock ROMs) with a default Google-free version. This way, it may well attract enough interest that even if you stop, someone else will maintain it. They're so popular that there might be enough interest to maintain it even after LOS15.1 and derivatives are working and stable.
mudnightoil said:
For the Nth time, if you're going to bother to reply, then at least read what I have written and explained in a number of posts.
Nowhere have I asked for AOSP. It'll come when it comes, but I need a fix in the mean time.
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Ah you're right, my bad.
mudnightoil said:
Samsung released all the sources a while ago.
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For exynos?
I am asking for a modified stock ROM with Google removed by default. Something that has existed in the past, and which it's incredible if it does not exist among the hundreds of modified stock ROMs for the S8 variants.
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Now why didn't you do your research before buying this phone? Did you just assume you'd find a google free touchwiz rom? It doesn't take long to skim through the dev section and see every rom is basically stock with little tweaks here and there. Its not like you bought the phone on day 1, its been out for 8 months or so.
So like i said before, you bought the wrong phone, give it back and get that op5t if you don't want google on your phone. Flash aosp and voila, no google unless you flash gapps.
mudnightoil said:
That's very kind. The only problem I foresee, as mentioned earlier, is that removing Google from a ROM which doesn't have a maintained Google-free version means that every significant OTA update is likely to 're-infect' the system.
I think the most likely chance of success is a minor fork of ICE / BatMan / Renovate (i.e. one of the most popular modified stock ROMs) with a default Google-free version. This way, it may well attract enough interest that even if you stop, someone else will maintain it. They're so popular that there might be enough interest to maintain it even after LOS15.1 and derivatives are working and stable.
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itll be 7 months before we see aosp on s8 and s8 plus. as for the other thing, i have a base im working on atm. when an update comes along ill make one from it. in the meantime, the build i use is super fast and compared to the others you mentioned like ice and batman, its way better for snappy and so on. if interested let me know. itll take me around 6 hours to get it going and another 3 to upload if im lucky. donations on this would be highly highly appreciated but not needed
this.guy.lol said:
itll be 7 months before we see aosp on s8 and s8 plus. as for the other thing, i have a base im working on atm. when an update comes along ill make one from it. in the meantime, the build i use is super fast and compared to the others you mentioned like ice and batman, its way better for snappy and so on. if interested let me know. itll take me around 6 hours to get it going and another 3 to upload if im lucky. donations on this would be highly highly appreciated but not needed
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I think it'll be much sooner than that. Price matters. It'll fall even further once the S9 is out. But anyway ....
What's the base? Will it have Aroma?
It would probably be a good idea to make a thread with details, and then you can gauge interest and thereby likelihood of donations.
Once I actually have the phone (it's in DE and I'm currently in NL) and get round to installing it, I'd of course contribute, provided it is indeed suitable.
mudnightoil said:
I think it'll be much sooner than that. Price matters. It'll fall even further once the S9 is out. But anyway ....
What's the base? Will it have Aroma?
It would probably be a good idea to make a thread with details, and then you can gauge interest and thereby likelihood of donations.
Once I actually have the phone (it's in DE and I'm currently in NL) and get round to installing it, I'd of course contribute, provided it is indeed suitable.
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Base will be 7.0/7.1.1 as its the most stable as far as speed is concerned. Aroma will be an option yes. I'm still learning how to make threads in here. Would love to have a place holder of sorts. Ill look into more later on. Be looking for my other account on here to post the ROM. The name is LVL7MODZ
I'm back on Verizon after switching to Sprint back in 2008. So I recently picked up a mint condition Verizon Note 4 so I could have a little fun building a new Note 7 port ROM. Many of you may know me as the creator of the Ultimate Note 7 ROM for the Sprint Note 4. I'm here to tell all of you that I've been working on a new Ultimate Note 7 ROM for the Verizon Note 4. It is nearly ready for public beta release! With the experience I have porting Samsung Touchwiz ROM's. I figured it is long overdue for the Verizon Note 4 users. My port ROM has official and original Verizon Note 7 framework, apps, etc. So instead of trying to make international port ROM's work, which is no simple task unless you know what you're doing, get ready for a true Verizon compatible Note 7 ROM. Those of you who still have your Verizon Note 4 and want to get more life and use from it with a fresh look and feel, look for a new ROM thread soon.
I need a few reliable and knowledgeable testers. If you can help troubleshoot and test the rom, please install Telegram app on your PC and your phone and join my Hybrid Port ROM's group so you can have access to the the test ROM and join the rest of us who are ready to get this thing going. See you there!
Why not a Note 8 ROM or Oreo ROM? Just curious. Forgive me, I wouldn't know of any technical constraints.
i cant wait thanks man
JOSHSKORN said:
Why not a Note 8 ROM or Oreo ROM? Just curious. Forgive me, I wouldn't know of any technical constraints.
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The S8 and N8 ROM's are Nougat 7.0. The N4 has been cut off at Android 6.0 and doesn't have official Samsung Nougat 7.0 kernel source, therefore the Snapdragon N4 can't run Android 7.0. ROM's. If this was possible we would have a lot of excited dev's continuing to build 7.0 TouchWiz ROM's for the N4. Unfortunately Marshmallow 6.0 is all we have for the N4 so the N7 Marshmallow software and perhaps some ported S8/N8 apps is as good as it gets for the N4. What i'm doing is building a solid N7 base ROM for the Verizon N4. Once it's ready I will upload it as a stock base rom. Other dev's can use my base to build out custom ROM's with mods, ROM control, Xposed, etc, etc. This will eliminate the need to fix any network related features. It will all work as it should. International N7 port ROM's are not compatible with the U.S. CDMA carrier's features. This is why we need a true Verizon N7 base rom. I know it's a little late and many people have upgraded to newer phones but if there's still users here wanting to run a proper Verizon N7 ROM, this will be it.
With this said, I welcome any and all testers and dev's to pitch in and help test and troubleshoot minor bugs. PM me if you're interested in helping with this. The ROM is 100% complete and operational but I'm working on minor bugs with a few system apps.
tx_dbs_tx said:
The S8 and N8 ROM's are Nougat 7.0. The N4 has been cut off at Android 6.0 and doesn't have official Samsung Nougat 7.0 kernel source, therefore the Snapdragon N4 can't run Android 7.0. ROM's. If this was possible we would have a lot of excited dev's continuing to build 7.0 TouchWiz ROM's for the N4. Unfortunately Marshmallow 6.0 is all we have for the N4 so the N7 Marshmallow software and perhaps some ported S8/N8 apps is as good as it gets for the N4. What i'm doing is building a solid N7 base ROM for the Verizon N4. Once it's ready I will upload it as a stock base rom. Other dev's can use my base to build out custom ROM's with mods, ROM control, Xposed, etc, etc. This will eliminate the need to fix any network related features. It will all work as it should. International N7 port ROM's are not compatible with the U.S. CDMA carrier's features. This is why we need a true Verizon N7 base rom. I know it's a little late and many people have upgraded to newer phones but if there's still users here wanting to run a proper Verizon N7 ROM, this will be it.
With this said, I welcome any and all testers and dev's to pitch in and help test and troubleshoot minor bugs. PM me if you're interested in helping with this. The ROM is 100% complete and operational but I'm working on minor bugs with a few system apps.
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I realize the Note 4 has been cut off at Android 6.0, but how are devs able to come up with a 7.1.2 ROM for it? User hsbadr has three: LineageOS, ResurrectionRemix. and EmotionOS (this one seems to be discontinued). I haven't used any of his ROMs for quite some time, because they seem a bit buggy, to me, but that's beside the point I'm getting at. How is he able to make a 7.0 ROM and others can't seem to? That said, why wouldn't an 8.0 ROM be possible?
JOSHSKORN said:
I realize the Note 4 has been cut off at Android 6.0, but how are devs able to come up with a 7.1.2 ROM for it? User hsbadr has three: LineageOS, ResurrectionRemix. and EmotionOS (this one seems to be discontinued). I haven't used any of his ROMs for quite some time, because they seem a bit buggy, to me, but that's beside the point I'm getting at. How is he able to make a 7.0 ROM and others can't seem to? That said, why wouldn't an 8.0 ROM be possible?
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You're talking about AOSP ROM's. Those ROM's are open source from Google, not Samsung Touchwiz ROM's. Big difference. The kernels they build are not compatible with Samsung Touchwiz ROM's
bmhbmh715 said:
i cant wait thanks man
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+1
Thanks for this!
Would there be anyway you could make it to use normal bootanimation.zip?
tx_dbs_tx said:
Those of you who still have your Verizon Note 4 and want to get more life and use from it with a fresh look and feel, look for a new ROM thread soon.
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Hello, I am still rocking the note 4 Verizon. And I will be keeping it as long as devoted members such as yourself put out great roms! That being said I would like to be a beta tester if you so need one. I have a little knowledge in troubleshooting and the like, mostly my expertise is in repairing and building phones. I have a whole closet that's devoted to phone parts repair, and computer systems repair. My last few phones I have held on to until the dev section went quiet, note 2, Moto atrix, moto bionic... they were awesome with deodexed/rooted roms... I am addicted to flashing new roms to find the right balance between performance and battery...
By the way, one slight request, when all said and done fixing most of the bugs, don't forget to make sure the rom has a kernel that is compatible with extended batterys. Most of us holding out with our outdated note 4, usually have those huge batteries hanging off the back...lol
getyroks said:
By the way, one slight request, when all said and done fixing most of the bugs, don't forget to make sure the rom has a kernel that is compatible with extended batterys. Most of us holding out with our outdated note 4, usually have those huge batteries hanging off the back...lol
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No worries. I'm using the Flashpoint kernel and there's also an extended battery version. It's based on Verizon N4 QI2 so it's good to go.
OH MY GLOB!
I still have my Verizon Note 4, can't wait for this rom ???
tx_dbs_tx said:
No worries. I'm using the Flashpoint kernel and there's also an extended battery version. It's based on Verizon N4 QI2 so it's good to go.
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I just figured you would build your own kernel. Yes, flashpoint is the best in my opinion, as of right now.
getyroks said:
I just figured you would build your own kernel. Yes, flashpoint is the best in my opinion, as of right now.
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I really don't mess with kernels. That's not really my forte. If needed, I would just ask someone to build one. But since there's already one available and it happens to be from Verizon source I will use it and give credit. But I may request a new kernel from the latest source once I get the rom ready.
tx_dbs_tx said:
I really don't mess with kernels. That's not really my forte. If needed, I would just ask someone to build one. But since there's already one available and it happens to be from Verizon source I will use it and give credit. But I may request a new kernel from the latest source once I get the rom ready.
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I think I may have the CQL1 source kernel ready. I've been running it since Tues and was thinking of posting it soon. If you, or anyone else, wants to try it out you can download it here.
The source code is here for those interested.
The changes are the same as the ones for the 910F beta kernel that was posted the other day.
Change Log:
Backported the 3.18 Linux version of Interactive Governor
Add patch for USB fast charge
Add Sound Controls- so far this hasn't negatively impacted anything but it's definitely the change I'm most concerned about and will probably make a separate version without this in the future. Be careful with this. Had my earbuds in and it gets very loud.
LED fade control
Completely reworked the thermal temperature control. So far the temperature has been throttling down pretty good when it goes above the set temp. I've been setting mine on the lowest setting.
Added zswap control
Extended Battery patch is included
On a personal note, I'm very excited to see a port rom that's not built with an international firmware. If there's anything I can help with let me know. My skills are somewhat limited but every now and again I can get lucky.
Thanks Kevin. What I want to do is get the stockish base N7 ROM done then see if there's somebody who wants to take it to the next level and add mods, rom control etc, etc. I know a lot of people like the custom mods, xposed, etc but these days I really don't care for that stuff as long as everything works as it should i'm happy. So if you know of someone who could take on that task once I get the base ROM finished, then that would be great for everyone who wants the custom stuff. And I can take a break. I'll pm some of you once the test build is ready. We'll need to test the basic functions like bluetooth NFC, wifi, etc. It should all work because i've ported these roms before so I know what all i have to do. I'll get the test rom ready as soon as i can as time permits. I'm going over framework getting it debugged and making sure it's a smooth and zippy as i can make it.
tx_dbs_tx said:
Thanks Kevin. What I want to do is get the stockish base N7 ROM done then see if there's somebody who wants to take it to the next level and add mods, rom control etc, etc. I know a lot of people like the custom mods, xposed, etc but these days I really don't care for that stuff as long as everything works as it should i'm happy. So if you know of someone who could take on that task once I get the base ROM finished, then that would be great for everyone who wants the custom stuff. And I can take a break. I'll pm some of you once the test build is ready. We'll need to test the basic functions like bluetooth NFC, wifi, etc. It should all work because i've ported these roms before so I know what all i have to do. I'll get the test rom ready as soon as i can as time permits. I'm going over framework getting it debugged and making sure it's a smooth and zippy as i can make it.
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I don't use xposed anymore... too much of a hassle to get through some apps that look for it and are diabled from xposed...
Couple brainstorming requests, or something... lol
the people Edge should work properly... I've had so many TW roms that are half done and people Edge is boinked..
Something with note 7 roms and task manager is buggy on note 4...
There is a fingerprint work around for ported roms, if we could get a good, understandable write up to make that work, that would be appreciated.
TW launcher should be themeable... some ports I've tried have that boinked as well.
The brightness on some ports has an issue with not dimming, or high brightness when in sunlight and darkness...
Mostly stock feel and look is quite nice though.
getyroks said:
I don't use xposed anymore... too much of a hassle to get through some apps that look for it and are diabled from xposed...
Couple brainstorming requests, or something... lol
the people Edge should work properly... I've had so many TW roms that are half done and people Edge is boinked..
Something with note 7 roms and task manager is buggy on note 4...
There is a fingerprint work around for ported roms, if we could get a good, understandable write up to make that work, that would be appreciated.
TW launcher should be themeable... some ports I've tried have that boinked as well.
The brightness on some ports has an issue with not dimming, or high brightness when in sunlight and darkness...
Mostly stock feel and look is quite nice though.
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All of the things you mentioned will be working, except fingerprint scanner. That is a lot harder to pull off and will be the very last thing on the to-do list. If it could be made to work other dev's would have figured it out by now without the N4 settings apk swap trick. But i will definitely try my best to get the fingerprint scanner working with my verizon N7 ROM. With Kevin's custom kernel this will be an amazing ROM for the Verizon N4! It's coming along great. It's raining all day today so i'm inside hammering away on the ROM.
tx_dbs_tx said:
All of the things you mentioned will be working, except fingerprint scanner. That is a lot harder to pull off and will be the very last thing on the to-do list. If it could be made to work other dev's would have figured it out by now without the N4 settings apk swap trick. But i will definitely try my best to get the fingerprint scanner working with my verizon N7 ROM. With Kevin's custom kernel this will be an amazing ROM for the Verizon N4! It's coming along great. It's raining all day today so i'm inside hammering away on the ROM.
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I kniw it's tricky with the fingerprint, I was just suggesting an easy unified post of HOW to do it on this new rom you're making
getyroks said:
I kniw it's tricky with the fingerprint, I was just suggesting an easy unified post of HOW to do it on this new rom you're making
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Well it's never been accomplished by anyone as far as I know. I started working on the fingerprint scanner fix for my sprint UN7 ROM but I abandoned it due to the complexity and the time it takes to do it. It wasn't worth the amount of time and work. This is why it hasn't already been done. We'll see how it goes but I seriously doubt fingerprint scanner will be working on initial release. it's probably my biggest negative on running the N7 port ROM. I use fingerprint lockscreen even though it's the swipe method.