Time to get this sorted out. Let's establish a few facts first:
1. The AOSP apps are old and outdated so they are going to be replaced.
2. We are talking about preinstalled "stock" apps in the ROM, i.e. which Calendar, Contacts and Email client that are to be preinstalled.
3. Shipping a ROM without any of them preinstalled is not an option.
4. The question asked here is which of those "preinstalled" apps the ROM should contain - i.e. we are NOT talking about what G-Apps package there should be but what "default" apps there should be for Calendar, Contacts et al.
5. AOSP apps or pico/nano G-Apps is not a valid answer since the first ones are outdated, the second one would leave the ROM without certain base apps installed - so again, not relevant here.
The alternatives under consideration are:
1. G-Apps
The Google Calendar, Contacts et al instead of the AOSP apps.
2. BlackBerry apps
This would mean BB Calendar, Contacts and Hub etc. Perhaps even Productivity Tab. Those apps are well designed, high quality with decent functionality and follow the Material Design guidelines. They are easy to evaluate here:
https://cobalt232.github.io/blackberrymanager/
Just download BB Manager and install them.
They are excellent replacements for AOSP apps.
3. Sony apps
This is another option, i.e. AOSP apps replaced by different Sony apps. Those are also well designed and fit the Material Design language. The most important ones to consider here are Album and Music - they are the best apps of Sony with great UI design and feature set, especially image and video editing and so on.
Different Sony apps can be evaluated here:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/mod-port-pexomod-xperia-features-apps-t3315781
PexoMod is really great and also provide Play Store updates (I have been using this on both my Max and Xperia Z Ultra).
Modded APKs are available here:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/app-xperia-app-stock-rom-t3263403
The general XDA section for Sony apps:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps
Why those choices?
Most important reason: They run well on the ROM.
Those apps can run without the need of framework modification, unlike some other OEM apps. This is also the reason why the selection has been narrowed down to those packages, beside their overall quality and usability.
Why not include [insert whatever app from Play Store]?
Because those apps are replacements for the AOSP apps and it is just undoable to accommodate different requests (can't compile 100 different ROMs for each user). It is also a benefit if the apps are available through XDA rather than requiring APK extraction from Play Store or APK Mirror for bundling.
I don't use X so don't include it!
Again, 100 different ROMs for 100 different users are simply undoable. It sounds harsh but it is a fact. It is also time to end this sense of entitlement, i.e. that everything can be adjusted to the I, Me and Mine and that what *I* want is "more important" than anything else (the problem arise when there are more than one *I* in the equation).
Prerequisites for app proposals
If there are proposals to include other apps, kindly observe the following prerequisites then:
I. The app should be available on XDA (i.e. Play Store won't do).
II. The app should follow some kind of theme (i.e. calendar and contacts from the same source, i.e. not one app from one place with one UI and another from another place with a different UI). Coherent design, please.
III. Provide some kind of explanation more than "because I use it" (people use different apps...).
Good luck and let's see where this leads us.
Happy voting!
voted for G-apps.
E90 Commie said:
Time to get this sorted out. Let's establish a few facts first:
1. The AOSP apps are old and outdated so they are going to be replaced.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Facts!? Apparently you have no idea what AOSP is... Thousands of eyes looking at the code and fixing/improving it at any given moment.
So lets run MIUI which is updated regularly(who cares if it's 7.0) and trash AOSP and any custom ROM(all AOSP based and kept in sync with latest source code). You see what I mean?
We all here have one common thing - we don't like miui, otherwise why should we use custom roms!? And now you are trying to push another vendor apps? WTF!?!?
Sorry, couldn't stand this nonsense anymore...
I don't want to replace any files, just like that's RR
nijel8 said:
Facts!? Apparently you have no idea what AOSP is... Thousands of eyes looking at the code and fixing/improving it at any given moment.
So lets run MIUI which is updated regularly(who cares if it's 7.0) and trash AOSP and any custom ROM(all AOSP based and kept in sync with latest source code). You see what I mean?
We all here have one common thing - we don't like miui, otherwise why should we use custom roms!? And now you are trying to push another vendor apps? WTF!?!?
Sorry, couldn't stand this nonsense anymore...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly my thoughts, Wouldn't like to mess with the Build structure.... but I'm in minority
nijel8 said:
Facts!? Apparently you have no idea what AOSP is... Thousands of eyes looking at the code and fixing/improving it at any given moment.
So lets run MIUI which is updated regularly(who cares if it's 7.0) and trash AOSP and any custom ROM(all AOSP based and kept in sync with latest source code). You see what I mean?
We all here have one common thing - we don't like miui, otherwise why should we use custom roms!? And now you are trying to push another vendor apps? WTF!?!?
Sorry, couldn't stand this nonsense anymore...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats why we voted for gapps
He liked his sony apps a lot. But I agree on the 'fact' that there is no point pushing a vendor apps package. Some other will like sam**** apps more and try to have them in the ROM.
If aosp apps are removed, nothing other than gapps should fill its place.
All others who want sony and what not, can flash them over (maybe they like it beautiful and all).
I do want the aosp apps to be replaced by gapps in every ROM.
Aosp dialer is fine but google dialer is better. They have changed the in-call UI and incoming call ui. I like it better. Although aosp dialer works too.
Messaging, I am good with aosp.
All other apps, I want them gone. Aosp calendar is ugly and gave me a lot of problems asking me to log in to google account again and then saying already logged in. Didnt let me view the month view calendar. I want it burned.
Aosp is constantly being reviewed and updated but these apps are not really updated.
Some functionality is added and fixed but gapps have the modern design and newer functionality. I think you'd agree on that.
but as always, its lovely to hear your thoughts and bashing LOL
---------- Post added at 12:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 PM ----------
dungphp said:
I don't want to replace any files, just like that's RR
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But I would request and advise to use nijel8 device tree and add OMS to your ROMs.
I would love to try your ROMs.
We had a word sometime back and you said you hadn't cared about OMS/substratum at that point.
Hope you have now and included it.
Note: when @nijel8 adds substratum, all other ROMs for mi max will see a decrease in popularity.
Except probably davehimself's because he willl continue to use nijel's tree and add V4A and gapps (replacing aosp) to his RR builds.
HannibalLecter said:
Thats why we voted for gapps
He liked his sony apps a lot. But I agree on the 'fact' that there is no point pushing a vendor apps package. Some other will like sam**** apps more and try to have them in the ROM.
If aosp apps are removed, nothing other than gapps should fill its place.
All others who want sony and what not, can flash them over (maybe they like it beautiful and all).
I do want the aosp apps to be replaced by gapps in every ROM.
Aosp dialer is fine but google dialer is better. They have changed the in-call UI and incoming call ui. I like it better. Although aosp dialer works too.
Messaging, I am good with aosp.
All other apps, I want them gone. Aosp calendar is ugly and gave me a lot of problems asking me to log in to google account again and then saying already logged in. Didnt let me view the month view calendar. I want it burned.
Aosp is constantly being reviewed and updated but these apps are not really updated.
Some functionality is added and fixed but gapps have the modern design and newer functionality. I think you'd agree on that.
but as always, its lovely to hear your thoughts and bashing LOL
---------- Post added at 12:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 PM ----------
But I would request and advise to use nijel8 device tree and add OMS to your ROMs.
I would love to try your ROMs.
We had a word sometime back and you said you hadn't cared about OMS/substratum at that point.
Hope you have now and included it.
Note: when @nijel8 adds substratum, all other ROMs for mi max will see a decrease in popularity.
Except probably davehimself's because he willl continue to use nijel's tree and add V4A and gapps (replacing aosp) to his RR builds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I'm not mistaken, almost every ROM is available OMS except for LineageOS. And it looks like you have not tried my rom yet
dungphp said:
If I'm not mistaken, almost every ROM is available OMS except for LineageOS. And it looks like you have not tried my rom yet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
true.
nijel8 said:
Facts!? Apparently you have no idea what AOSP is... Thousands of eyes looking at the code and fixing/improving it at any given moment.
So lets run MIUI which is updated regularly(who cares if it's 7.0) and trash AOSP and any custom ROM(all AOSP based and kept in sync with latest source code). You see what I mean?
We all here have one common thing - we don't like miui, otherwise why should we use custom roms!? And now you are trying to push another vendor apps? WTF!?!?
Sorry, couldn't stand this nonsense anymore...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, this is the story:
1. There came up an idea from Davehimself about replacing AOSP apps with G-Apps in the ROM.
2. He released a new build of RR with G-Apps. Users complained, arguing that they only use pico/nano G-Apps and not Google Maps etc.
3. Because of this discussion, this thread was started.
4. The notion about "outdated AOSP" apps are based on the opinions voiced in the thread regarding replacement.
My personal take is that I have no issues with AOSP apps but in order to understand why this thread were opened, check the reactions when the latest RR build arrived with G-Apps.
I would also recommend you to check the BlackBerry apps - they are good.
The background of the thread is this:
"If AOSP apps are to be replaced, with what are we going to replace them?"
Edit: I haven't had any problems with G-Apps or AOSP apps myself (typically flash the Open G-Apps Mini) but the reactions in the thread led to the impression that putting such things into the ROM was very "inappropriate" - backed up by the "strong" I don't use X" argument....
So logical conclusion:
"If people complain about G-Apps, what next - i.e. what to replace the AOSP apps with?"
My personal take is that G-Apps are the logical replacement, BB and Sony apps came up as an alternative based on the input when people kept insisting on their pico/nano packages (i.e. don't include Google Maps etc).
I would also like to add that BlackBerry or Sony apps are good apps and follow the general design language of Material Design. So I wouldn't dismiss them that easily, especially not by equating them to MIUI.
Edit: I must add that the AOSP apps are pretty outdated in comparison with the alternatives. There is a reason why a lot of G-Apps packages replace them.
The best AOSP app I have been using was the Browser, which I hanged on to for a very long time due to its high performance but switched to Gello and later CAF/SWE.
I would also add that "AOSP apps" aren't the reason for my use of custom ROMs. I haven't any grudge against "vendor apps" due to them being "vendor apps" provided that they follow Material Design and work well, without requiring proprietary frameworks etc (i.e. they can be used on any ROM).
BB and Sony apps fulfill those requirements.
It is also telling that there are ROMs like the "XOSP" since Sony is good at design and their apps are simply.... pleasant.
E90 Commie said:
OK, this is the story:
1. There came up an idea from Davehimself about replacing AOSP apps with G-Apps in the ROM.
2. He released a new build of RR with G-Apps. Users complained, arguing that they only use pico/nano G-Apps and not Google Maps etc.
3. Because of this discussion, this thread was started.
4. The notion about "outdated AOSP" apps are based on the opinions voiced in the thread regarding replacement.
My personal take is that I have no issues with AOSP apps but in order to understand why this thread were opened, check the reactions when the latest RR build arrived with G-Apps.
I would also recommend you to check the BlackBerry apps - they are good.
The background of the thread is this:
"If AOSP apps are to be replaced, with what are we going to replace them?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always like to try out new things. Doing the same thing over and over again is just getting boring, so I started to build a most common custom rom on the best base out there and added things like OTA support. This whole thing of replacing AOSP apps is just an other idea from my side, because most people I know are flashing gapps and replace the AOSP apps. I also like the idea of building a rom based on user votes, so lets see what happens.
Of course AOSP apps are NOT outdated, maybe that's just a misunderstanding. When I said "old" I didn't mean outdated, rather an old design/look/feeling and functionallity compared to the google apps for exemple but that just depends on personal preferences.
I personally like a dynamic conversation and I'm happy for every feedback. If I'll get a lot of requests now to get back the AOSP apps I will do that of course
Again... Saying AOSP apps are outdated is like saying AOSP is outdated. Totally wrong...
There is a reason why gapps are not part of any self respective rom distribution. Even Google doesn't include their gapps in their AOSP. You can get whatever gapps/apps you want from anywhere but you can't get AOSP apps from anywhere but the original build!!! And where they are if removed?
But of course devs are free to do whatever they want with their projects and users are free not to use it.
Davehimself said:
most people I know are flashing gapps and replace the AOSP apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
AOSP apps are the first thing I remove
Davehimself said:
I always like to try out new things. Doing the same thing over and over again is just getting boring, so I started to build a most common custom rom on the best base out there and added things like OTA support. This whole thing of replacing AOSP apps is just an other idea from my side, because most people I know are flashing gapps and replace the AOSP apps. I also like the idea of building a rom based on user votes, so lets see what happens.
Of course AOSP apps are NOT outdated, maybe that's just a misunderstanding. When I said "old" I didn't mean outdated, rather an old design/look/feeling and functionallity compared to the google apps for exemple but that just depends on personal preferences.
I personally like a dynamic conversation and I'm happy for every feedback. If I'll get a lot of requests now to get back the AOSP apps I will do that of course
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If Google kept the AOSP apps "aligned" with their G-Apps (think of the CAF/SWE browsers even if we should credit Qualcomm as well here) and essentially just made one "FOSS" version and the "Googlified" one I wouldn't see any issues with them.
I would even bet that most G-Apps packages would leave them alone as well rather than just replacing them.
Considering that Google ship their own devices with G-Apps and we are using a Google designed system I think it is perfectly logical to ship it with such a package instead of AOSP.
I think some of the complainers are those who spend time at Android Police writing intelligent comments like: "Don't say that Samsung is bloated! Nexus/Pixel is bloated because they have G-Apps!"
OK, wake me up when Google ship a device with the same amount of duplicated apps and 2-3 voice assistants....
nijel8 said:
Again... Saying AOSP apps are outdated is like saying AOSP is outdated. Totally wrong...
There is a reason why gapps are not part of any self respective rom distribution. Even Google doesn't include their gapps in their AOSP. You can get whatever gapps/apps you want from anywhere but you can't get AOSP apps from anywhere but the original build!!! And where they are if removed?
But of course devs are free to do whatever they want with their projects and users are free not to use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just a simple question:
Are you using those AOSP apps?
It sounds like it is some kind of "serious" issue when a ROM is shipped with G-Apps instead of them. Beside being AOSP apps, are there any particular benefit with them from a usability/design perspective?
But I am happy to make another poll and that one will be very simple: AOSP or G-Apps?
I understand the attraction of AOSP apps on "Google free" installations but must admit that I fail to see how it can be an "issue" when a ROM is made "Google".
The poll is now open. Let's see how many users that actually use their AOSP Apps.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/mi-max/how-to/poll-aosp-apps-g-apps-t3650046
paarkhi said:
Exactly my thoughts, Wouldn't like to mess with the Build structure.... but I'm in minority
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, same with me.
---------- Post added at 04:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 PM ----------
E90 Commie said:
Just a simple question:
Are you using those AOSP apps?
It sounds like it is some kind of "serious" issue when a ROM is shipped with G-Apps instead of them. Beside being AOSP apps, are there any particular benefit with them from a usability/design perspective?
But I am happy to make another poll and that one will be very simple: AOSP or G-Apps?
I understand the attraction of AOSP apps on "Google free" installations but must admit that I fail to see how it can be an "issue" when a ROM is made "Google".
The poll is now open. Let's see how many users that actually use their AOSP Apps.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/mi-max/how-to/poll-aosp-apps-g-apps-t3650046
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why don't you just make your own rom and used it for yourself?
I could ask the same question.
Ergo: Should there be X different ROMs or should we just do polls and let users decide?
Poll results are easy to agree with. They are what they are.
E90 Commie said:
I could ask the same question.
Ergo: Should there be X different ROMs or should we just do polls and let users decide?
Poll results are easy to agree with. They are what they are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... and people are doing it. My PM inbox is full of requests to build clean RR or asking how to build it themselves. Just from yesterday's direction change...
The question remain:
What are the benefits of those AOSP apps?
OK, "people" (some of them....) "want" a "clean build" (AOSP apps since the difference is those and V4A) but the question is why?
It sounds like it is a serious issue with G-Apps instead of AOSP apps so again: WHAT is this issue? In which way did things "deteriorate" when AOSP Calendar et al were replaced by the Google Calendar?
The poll did tell a story of G-Apps being preferred and I am certainly one of those who did flash the Mini package before and I can't say that I am in mourning over the "loss" of AOSP apps...
Why does a ROM need to come with things like an email client and calendar pre-installed anyway? Apps are very easy to download and everybody's got their own personal preferences, so I'm not sure why it would be a big deal for a ROM to just not come with these apps installed.
nijel8 said:
... and people are doing it. My PM inbox is full of requests to build clean RR or asking how to build it themselves. Just from yesterday's direction change...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, that true I'm one of them.
Related
I picked this up from cross posts at modaco and xda-vibrant, but it seems there is a vanilla (no Samsung apps no TouchWiz) Android OS for the i9000 ... which would be cool ... if it worked. But I'm not sure anyone actually tried this on a SGS? It's been tried on a Vibrant (from what I can tell) and it half worked - dialler was not working so no phone :-(
Anyone who wants to keep track, OP at AndroidForums:
http://androidforums.com/samsung-captivate/130487-roms-monaco-releases.html
but I see the last post there 24th July, so maybe this is old news? In which case .. sincere apologies!
I think a lot of us are wanting a vanilla build of 2.1 (because 2.2 is wishing for just too much ;-) )
I desperatly need Vanilla to run on SGS.
If wasn't for the hardware, I would never have bought a SGS. I DETEST any custom UI.
So what advantage would a vanilla OS give me?
I don’t like TWLauncher so I just installed another launcher like ADW, LauncherPro, and I never see TWLauncher again. And I use the SGS apps I like and don’t use the one’s I don’t, what’s the problem?
MaNIaC
MaNIaCv1 said:
So what advantage would a vanilla OS give me?
I don’t like TWLauncher so I just installed another launcher like ADW, LauncherPro, and I never see TWLauncher again. And I use the SGS apps I like and don’t use the one’s I don’t, what’s the problem?
MaNIaC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unnecessary bloatware. Even with a Launcher replacement like LauncherPro or ADW, the CrapWiz is still there, all over the OS. Also, it makes upgrades take longer due to development team needing to adjust to their UI of choice.
I sincerelly hope that with Gingerbread and the new Vanilla UI, this crap will be over.
For me it's a matter of compatibility. A small example is Samsung Calendar keeps a local calendar as default. I don't want this since I am fully on google cloud services.
I want the Android OS that asks you for your google account on first boot.
Also, Samsung music player (as good as it may be) is not compatible with many other apps (eg Last.FM scrobbling)
I just get the impression that Samsung have incorporated their own framework to railroad you into the "Samsung" way. Which may be fine for some. I want the "Google" way (having been spoilt with my previous N1/Froyo).
Also, I wonder if vanilla Android OS, the GPS might actually be useful ...
miker71 said:
For me it's a matter of compatibility. A small example is Samsung Calendar keeps a local calendar as default. I don't want this since I am fully on google cloud services.
I want the Android OS that asks you for your google account on first boot.
Also, Samsung music player (as good as it may be) is not compatible with many other apps (eg Last.FM scrobbling)
I just get the impression that Samsung have incorporated their own framework to railroad you into the "Samsung" way. Which may be fine for some. I want the "Google" way (having been spoilt with my previous N1/Froyo).
Also, I wonder if vanilla Android OS, the GPS might actually be useful ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. You buy an Android phone for the Google experience. I just wished it was like Nexus One is.
Having re-read the original thread, I'm led to believe that the vanilla ROM still includes TouchWiz - from the context, I think this is a ROM from MoDaCo's kitchen perhaps, based on a stock Samsung ROM
miker71 said:
For me it's a matter of compatibility.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So are you saying that compatibility issues disappear if we had a vanilla OS?
miker71 said:
I wonder if vanilla Android OS, the GPS might actually be useful ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would there be a different GPS driver and API if we had a vanilla OS?
MaNIaC
I did my homework, and have come up mostly empty. Read what I could find on the CM site; wikipedia; blogs; newsgroups; and a lot more. Probably at least 2 hours trying to get a comparative handle on CM vs. stock release derived ROMs.
After all that, I'm only a tiny bit closer to understanding what I gain, and what I give up, going to CM.
If there if a good, detailed articulation of this somewhere, please help us CM noobs with a pointer; Otherwise, I'd like to start a thread to capture as much detailed information about comparing CM to stock-based ROMs so people can make informed choices.
Sent from my mind using telepathitalk
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/index.php?title=What_is_CyanogenMod
Thanks, that's a start, but in truth it's information like that that prompted my starting this thread.
That's generic information. Only moderately helpful in judging specifically for the Epic whether I should go CM, or with another custom ROM.
For example, info like this: CM does not include the accelerated Samsung video player, and doesn't handle many video formats and codings well in comparison. So, if playing h264 coded video in mkv containers is important to you, CM will be a challenge, where Bonsai, ACS, Midnight, etc. will be a much simpler choice to meet your needs.
Sent from my mind using telepathitalk
Think about it like this. If you buy a PC from a big company (HP, Dell, etc) it comes with a fully functional install of software. Windows + drivers + all other crap they decide you should have. That is equivalent to the Samsung ROM that comes stock on Epic.
What if you build your own PC from components? You will install Windows, then you will dig up the drivers you need separately, and then load your own applications.
Android AOSP in this comparison is the "base" install of Windows. Nothing else added in.
The drivers and other changes required to make the base Android work with your hardware is CyanogenMod.
So basically, Samsung based roms will have all the functioning drivers and everything else in them. Dev's tear them apart and remove/change what they don't want, but don't have to worry much about hardware cause the drivers are straight from Samsung.
AOSP based roms (CyanogenMod) will be utterly broken and have no hardware support at first. Developers have to write real lines of code into the software to make it support the Epic or any other phone. The are built from the ground up. That is why it is so amazing what Team CM7 has already got working in so little time!
Again, thanks for the sincere attempts to answer this qualitatively. However, that's not the issue. See my example above.
What you describe above with the custom PC example, while true, isn't informative enough for most people to make an informed decision.
Knowing that CM is free of carrier bloatware doesn't help me understand in any way that the video player with CM had some important limitations when compared to the optimized video player Samsung includes. For some people, this may be a critical issue in making a decision.
It is those sort of specific differences that I thought would be helpful to enumerate and capture. Of course anyone can simply install the ROM and discover for themselves... Judging by my own struggle to find enough information to make an informed choice myself, I thought others might benefit from nailing this stuff down.
So far, it looks like I may have been mistaken?
Sent from my mind using telepathitalk
dwallersv said:
Again, thanks for the sincere attempts to answer this qualitatively. However, that's not the issue. See my example above.
What you describe above with the custom PC example, while true, isn't informative enough for most people to make an informed decision.
Knowing that CM is free of carrier bloatware doesn't help me understand in any way that the video player with CM had some important limitations when compared to the optimized video player Samsung includes. For some people, this may be a critical issue in making a decision.
It is those sort of specific differences that I thought would be helpful to enumerate and capture. Of course anyone can simply install the ROM and discover for themselves... Judging by my own struggle to find enough information to make an informed choice myself, I thought others might benefit from nailing this stuff down.
So far, it looks like I may have been mistaken?
Sent from my mind using telepathitalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, you're looking for a more hand held description of what CM7 doesn't have?
....
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I can give you the best piece of advice....
This is a development site, not a front end rom publishing site..
If there's not already documentation, test the differences yourself, and report the findings for the next gentleman who comes along with your same questions...
Then before too long you're not a "noob" anymore..
But to answer your question, cyanogen is a more bare bones android experience.. it is built off of the AOSP (ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT).. It is stripped of any carrier or manufacturer additions (like HTC Sense or Touchwiz).. and is usually a cleaner and less buggy experience... Then the cyanogen team customizes and polishes features... (like menu infused theming instead of flashable zips..)
If you're too scared of bricking during experimental build testing, etc, this isn't the place for you...
Sent from my Samsung-SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
Will Cm7 on the epic have no CIQ?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
Sorry for the double post, the xda app submitted when open the physical keyboard. I too have been wondering what the big deal is with cm.. I can't find any concrete info that tells me what is so great about it. I'm on acs now and love it.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Overstew said:
Will Cm7 on the epic have no CIQ?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will not have CIQ. That is from Sprint, and this will have no traces of sprint whatsoever.
CM is completely customizable, it comes with all kinds of tweaks to make the phone a whole lot smoother, it gets updated constantly, and since its based on AOSP you can really do what ever you want with it. Whereas a stock samsung ROM you have to be careful what you do cause so many things rely on frame work and what not. The CM team is absolutely amazing the wrote code completely from scratch for $g and full HDMI mirroring to work on the evo. Also the size of the rom, CM is around 80 mb where most stock roms are 200, so you will have that much more space on the phone.
To set the record straight, I am hardly a "noob" in the sense that some here seem to think. I'm building kernels for my own use, and am working on a rewrite of the keyboard driver to more completely fix the problem so skillfully determined and patched by mkasick.
What I'm "noob" at is understanding in detail what I gain, and give up, by installing CM over the other custom ROMs based on stock releases. I have the broad strokes -- I need more specifics to decide if it's worth the hassle to give it a try.
We now have two new pieces of valuable information not obvious in any of the general info out there: Compromised video support (negative), no CIQ (positive). So, a little progress.
Sent from my mind using telepathitalk
i doubt anyone actually knows what you're asking....
Cyanogenmod is just pure android no bloatware from sprint/sammy
the way android was meant to be.
Pretty simple: If it is software that is added by a carrier or a manufacture (Sprint ID, touchWhiz, Samsungs Video Codecs) It will not be there. What it does have:
CM UI Tweaks, CM Hardware Tweaks, CM Performance enhancement options (adjustable heapsize) Default install location, Screen On Animation, Surface Dithering, Locking the Homescreen App in memory (so it doesn't rebuild it self when you press home), locking the messaging app in memory, DSP Audio Manager for Custom EQ setups over BT, Speaker, and head phones, Lock screen gestures, Lock screen music controls....
This is all of the top of my head.
Kcarpenter said:
Pretty simple: If it is software that is added by a carrier or a manufacture (Sprint ID, touchWhiz, Samsungs Video Codecs) It will not be there. What it does have:
CM UI Tweaks, CM Hardware Tweaks, CM Performance enhancement options (adjustable heapsize) Default install location, Screen On Animation, Surface Dithering, Locking the Homescreen App in memory (so it doesn't rebuild it self when you press home), locking the messaging app in memory, DSP Audio Manager for Custom EQ setups over BT, Speaker, and head phones, Lock screen gestures, Lock screen music controls....
This is all of the top of my head.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
O O Don't forget the BJ's Feature
i even dumped my GF
There's a lot of misinformed posting going on in here.
First of all, CyanogenMod is NOT AOSP. It is, however, more AOSP than Samsung's or HTC's stock ROMs. It is based on AOSP and built from the ground-up, but AOSP it is not.
AOSP is the bones on which everything you see on Android is built. Some phones have true, pure AOSP builds, but we do not. The CyanogenMod project, once completely, will allow a build of AOSP to run on the Epic since they share all the same drivers, but, once again, that doesn't make CyanogenMod completely AOSP, as people so willingly say.
Now, what IS CyanogenMod?
The goal is quite simple: It aims to achieve a single user-experience across multiple platforms through the use of open-source software and alternatives. One thing you can expect from the base CyanogenMod experience is that if you are running CyanogenMod7-RC2 on your MyTouch 3G Slide, you can talk to you friend who is using CyanogenMod7-RC2 on his HTC Evo 4G and be able to completely understand everything each other's phone can provide (sans hardware differences, such as CPU speeds and front-facing camera).
It is also meant to open new doors for developers to completely customize their user experience. Every last part of the CyanogenMod experience is open source. That's how new features are almost constantly being added.
Another goal is to keep every phone up-to-date with the newest version of Android as it is rolled out. Providing a basic starting ground for every phone means that patching the Android system to the latest version is considerably easier. That's why, several times, I've mentioned that the work done by noobnl on CyanogenMod6 has helped us getting where we are with CyanogenMod7. While we are not using it verbatim, the work points us in the right direction and shows us how to easily fix what is broken.
People are asking questions like "Will program X be left in" or "Does this add X". The answers are a lot more complicated than just yes or no. The fact of the matter is that, for the most part, NOTHING from the stock Samsung software is included. Apps may resemble what was in your stock experience, but that's only because Samsung based their own software after their AOSP counterparts. With that said, none of Sprint's bloatware is on CyanogenMod. I'm not even sure the most of them would even work. Things like Nascar, Sprint TV, and the like just are not there because the system is not built around them, plain and simple.
Because of this lack of bloat, you are gaining much in the way of speed, performance, and usability. Carrier IQ isn't there to bog your phone down. Useless DRM services aren't running in the background, eating your battery. The Sprint Apps aren't taking up valuable space in your phone's memory. It's clean.
Another thing CyanogenMod will provide to the community is a basis to provide some real meaty ROMs. Right now, for the most part, the ROMs are reskins and rehashes of other ROMs, save two or three. Fight as you might, but that's the truth. CyanogenMod is completely different and will allow developers more control over what they are doing. A lot of cool features can be made, such as autoupdaters and random system tweaks, and they can all be built in. For example, if you look at CyanogenMod now, you'll notice that ADW is the default launcher, and its settings are integrated into the phone's settings instead of being a standalone.
And the beauty of it all is that everything can be made to work how you please. For those worried about the video codec problem, it's a problem that can be solved simply by making those codecs work on CyanogenMod, which shouldn't involve too much trickery.
I hope this answers your question.
I concur. You are really thinking too far into things. There are very few limitations that cm7 will bring. For all of these, there are other apps that rectify it.
Sent from my Samsung-SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
Thanks Devin for a great response. Why is it we needed development to come give a nice answer... and the rest of the users just wanted to be know it all jerks?
skywalkr2 said:
Thanks Devin for a great response.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed, thanks
Why is it we needed development to come give a nice answer... and the rest of the users just wanted to be know it all jerks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
aww man, don't do that.. it doesn't really help anything, it just invites people to get all butt hurt about your being butt hurt about whatever the ****.. Just let it go.
My only question about CM is the obvious one.. "Is it done yet? (for my phone obviously)"
What is the Difference between an AOSP experience ROM and a NO AOSP ROM?
Also what is the difference between the : Android Develoment Forum and the ORIGINAL FORUM?
Hey
AOSP ROMs are Android Open Source Project Roms, so they don't have any of the HTC Sense, Touchwiz, Motoblur bullcrap (IMO) on them and are pretty much a pure google experience e.g similair to the stock firmware on a galaxy nexus/nexus 7 but most are tweaked e.g CM gives you additional mods and things
And for the second question. I think this post explains it better than i can
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1219612
dinesh690 said:
Hey
AOSP ROMs are Android Open Source Project Roms, so they don't have any of the HTC Sense, Touchwiz, Motoblur bullcrap (IMO) on them and are pretty much a pure google experience e.g similair to the stock firmware on a galaxy nexus/nexus 7 but most are tweaked e.g CM gives you additional mods and things
And for the second question. I think this post explains it better than i can
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1219612
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Click to collapse
Thank you , you amazed me with the difference of the 2 forums, ( that was the best EXPLANATION I have ever encounter):highfive:
I thought that nexus devices are aosp!?
There are no ASUS additions!?
Cetin said:
I thought that nexus devices are aosp!?
There are no ASUS additions!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Asus didn't add anything significant to the Nexus 7. They add a few apps to their transformer series tablets and tweak the UI a little, but it's pretty close to stock as well when comparing to what Samsung and HTC do. I will only buy Asus or Nexus brand in the future because of this.
Tbh im just going for google only phones even if asus is close to vanilla from now on, don't care about how vanilla it is because most popular phones have atleast Cyanagonmod ROMS for that but I just want fast updates, good dev community and easy unlocking unlike s-off and all this other crap which is a pain in the ass
Xentar712 said:
Asus didn't add anything significant to the Nexus 7. They add a few apps to their transformer series tablets and tweak the UI a little, but it's pretty close to stock as well when comparing to what Samsung and HTC do. I will only buy Asus or Nexus brand in the future because of this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why I don't understand why we have android development here too? It's all original here.
Cetin said:
That's why I don't understand why we have android development here too? It's all original here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, there are multiple ways you can do ROMS:
1. "I downloaded source from google.com and just hit compile without any changes whatsoever (aside from whatever was needed to get it working, like drivers etc)."
2. "Long time ago I had downloaded from google.com, but since then i have added MANY MANY of my own cool changes (like `long press volume to skip to next song'), of course I make sure i pull in whatever latest changes google made to their source too"
3. "there were 2 or 3 ROMs from the above 2 that i liked and i combined them"
#1 is `AOSP',
#2 is `NO AOSP', the person making these "drastic changes" can be HTC (in the case of senseui) or just some dude/team of dudes (in the case of CyanogenMod). This is basically `original work', in the sense that, aside from google's source which i obviously must have taken from, a lot of the stuff is my own. CyanogenMod for instance has immense amount of changes, not sure how it works, but just consider that JB for CyanogenMod is not even beta yet, even though google has stable JB obviously. Meaning their changes are so immense that they had to start from scratch and do all the cool changes to the new JB source (or smthg to that effect).
#3 is regular 'non original' roms, since there is very little 'originality' in these roms. CAn be anything from "All im doing is compiling CM10 and putting it up, although im not officially CM" to "I just added some cool stuff from CM to AOSP and compiled it".
--
I'm unsure as to the line between #2 and #3 ofc, it can get a little confusing/fuzzy at times.
Hello everyone.
The much awaited OS that no one really waited for is finally here. If you don't know what I'm talking about then let me clue you in. OxygenOS is known for being developed by Oneplus... Isn't that it?... Ohh yeah its also known for being closed source, featureless, 'not wait worthy', over hyped, bugged and not being great.
It will seem sooo good when you compare it with the ROMs by other OEMs (or maybe when you ask some noobs) but when you are used to the wonderful development by the Oneplus community its just like any other non-advertised ROM that no one uses .
Beware : Some people may tell you to appreciate the effort and to accept it for what it is but how can you do that when your daily driver is a build by the Blisspop Team or Teamsek or Mahdi (just to name a few). They may also tell you to install other mods and Xposed for customizing the ROM but isn't that settling?
Oneplus' logo is Never Settle but OxygenOS didn't even get me startled. The only glamorous things about the OS were the hyped PA developers team and making people wait so that they want it more and also how can you forget the full Gapps package that people call bloat.
The OS is pretty normal and should had been released a long time ago and of course they apologized for that and happily gave away 5 phones thus again winning sympathy points. (Yay for Oneplus).
I don't intend to criticize Oneplus. I love their product and hence gave my money to them . I also have confidence in their future products. What I and lot of other folks hate is over hyping things that aren't that great and then making people believe that it is.
And yes obviously i will keep OxygenOS as one of those ROMs in MultiROM which i will nevver use.
Thanks for reading and do voice your opinion.
Something magical happened on 4/4/15. One of the best ROMs i.e. OxygenOS was released on that day. The following features make it the bomb :-
1) Clean and simple UI and also lightweight at 715 MB
2) Gives the pleasure of owning a stock Nexus device and making people forget why they bought the Oneplus One
3) Gives some people the ability to develop it even though its not open source
4) Full Gapps package pre-included so that nobody has to go through the trouble of flashing the Mini Gapps package.
5) Was stress tested and OTAed for 4-5 months and thus is very stable and gives great performance and also OTA
6)And the best thing is that these 6 features are enough to make it the best.
Do you love OxygenOS? Then share your good experiences below.
It pretty sums it up what a lot of peoples(and i) think!Great writing overall!
dragoi90 said:
It pretty sums it up what a lot of peoples(and i) think!Great writing overall!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was just really surprised to see all the good reviews that OxygenOS got.
A lot of noobies out there my friend! [emoji14]
some people like a stock Google experience without all the tweaks CM did. You're basically saying all Nexus and Google Experience devices suck because they have the same OxygenOS feel too. To each their own.
I will say that I do miss some features that CM11S had but I do like the ability to change my phone with tweaks how I want it too.
btw, not a noob.
Actually. I've used pretty much all the other ones including Bliss and Temasek. I settled on Temasek as it was the most stable, best battery life and great performance. I have been using it for about three months now. I will say that Oxygen so far has exceeded my expectation and has been great. I will stick to it for now and see how it functions as a daily driver. However, so far I'm impressed.
Oxygen could be a great base for developers like clean Nexus. Would be awesome.
Meuuks13 said:
And yes obviously i will keep OxygenOS as one of those ROMs in MultiROM which i will nevver use.
Thanks for reading and do voice your opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The install on this ROM is very quick. It's a light ROM, and I like that. It is quick with page to page changes and app loading. It is not a power-house ROM. If I want to have niceties on a ROM, I will install what I wish. This ROM feels more fluid than the stock KK ROMs. I plan on testing it out, as all of the functions are working for me just fine. It is not a feature laden ROM, never the less, it may fit for some.
OP, given the clear dislike you have for the company's lack of timely follow through with releases and the hype... I get that portion of your post and I agree. What I don't understand is why "keep OxygenOS as one of those ROMs in MultiROM which i will nevver use"? It sounds more like poetic expression than sensical. Free yourself, Never Settle.
Thunderbolt said:
Oxygen could be a great base for developers like clean Nexus. Would be awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Too bad it's not open source. Which also means I'll never use it, by the way.
Thunderbolt said:
Oxygen could be a great base for developers like clean Nexus. Would be awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OxygenOS is not open sourced.
I'm only going to say this once. Either keep to the topic at hand, or don't say anything at all. We can do without the flaming & name calling. The next instance I catch of either in this thread will call for an infraction to the offending party/parties, and I will close this thread.
Magnum_Enforcer
FSM
Its stable that is good enough for me....
But when its about companys own os then there must be like touchwiz sense miui then u will stand in competition between general public which dont know about boot loader recovery root.
Sent from my A0001 using XDA Free mobile app
Just like any other OEM they dony open sourced their own work. Oxy is more like Nexus type.
DrearierJester1 said:
Just like any other OEM they dony open sourced their own work. Oxy is more like Nexus type.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that the Nexus stock roms are practically open source (or at least a large part of them are) plus a few closed source add-ons, just like CM11S.
caronaakk said:
Its stable that is good enough for me....
But when its about companys own os then there must be like touchwiz sense miui then u will stand in competition between general public which dont know about boot loader recovery root.
Sent from my A0001 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not stable, there are about 7 bugs.
gondsman said:
Except that the Nexus stock roms are practically open source (or at least a large part of them are) plus a few closed source add-ons, just like CM11S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right at the point.
Meuuks13 said:
Its not stable, there are about 7 bugs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bugs don't make a ROM unstable. It's unstable when there are problems like random reboots and FCs caused by the ROM itself, not user setup or installed apps. OxygenOS is in fact stable.
CafeKampuchia said:
Bugs don't make a ROM unstable. It's unstable when there are problems like random reboots and FCs caused by the ROM itself, not user setup or installed apps. OxygenOS is in fact stable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bugs don't make a ROM unstable? Last time i checked random reboots and FCs were caused by bugs.
Meuuks13 said:
Bugs don't make a ROM unstable? Last time i checked random reboots and FCs are caused by bugs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that what you were talking about in the OP? If so, then it's not clear. What is clear is that OxygenOS runs fast, smooth and stable for most people, but it has minor bugs that don't cause instability, and it's feature list is short.
CafeKampuchia said:
Is that what you were talking about in the OP? If so, then it's not clear. What is clear is that OxygenOS runs fast, smooth and stable for most people, but it has minor bugs that don't cause instability, and it's feature list is short.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In other words its just an ordinary ROM which was hyped for greatness There are a lot of simple ROMs like this and adding one more doesn't help
I just picked up an S8+ for €524 (new). However I'm not allowed to have anything Google on my phone (not just apps, but Play Services). Nor do I want them really.
Since there still aren't any working AOSP ROMs, which of the 100s of modified stock ROMs (or N8 ports) are available where GoogleApps must be installed as a separate package (like AOSP)? Anyone have a list?
Don't want to waste time messing around removing it from ROMs that already have it baked in.
Lineage OS when it will have official support (no idea when)
Thanks, I'm aware that it (and Resurrection Remix etc etc) will. But rather strangely, in my view, there seems to be a huge disbalance in development efforts between stock and AOSP on the S8.
Anyway, regardless, in the mean time, I want a 'stock' / modified ROM that has no Google as standard.
From what I know...there is no AOSP rom that works completely for the s8 yet...
You can still root it and unistall anything inside from google from the stock rom, so that you keep all the functions without using google stuff
Per my first post, I'd rather not bother.
I'll just return the phone or sell it immediately if there really aren't any custom ROMs where G-Apps are installed separately. Aside from the initial bother, OTA updates tend to reinstall them, so it's a constant battle.
No AOSP roms for now. There's long way for Lineage or RR to become fully functional and bug-free. Just to remind the S6/S7 case.
I know, but surely there must be a few custom ROMs with no G-apps by default? There are literally hundreds.
mudnightoil said:
I know, but surely there must be a few custom ROMs with no G-apps by default? There are literally hundreds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have a look at BatMan Rom v1.5. If I remember correctly you can choose to omit installing any G-apps via the Aroma installation.
Norup58 said:
Have a look at BatMan Rom v1.5. If I remember correctly you can choose to omit installing any G-apps via the Aroma installation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AFAIK removing Google Play Services (via Aroma) isn't an option. It's just the actual apps. Certainly it isn't an option in the screengrabs in that ROM or others.
Also, I assume like many other ROMs with G-apps baked in, OTAs complicate this, and they may never really be gone.
Thanks for the suggestion though.
Doubt very much you will find a Rom which fulfills your needs precisely.
An alternative is to use Titanium Backup or Package Disabler to get 'rid' of all Google things.
I remember there being a few in the Nexus 4 and 5 days, and some old Samsungs.
Haven't kept track of it recently, as have used stock CM / LOS in later years, so found it unnecessary.
Bump
To the OP I'd be happy to take stock from a backup and remove all Google apps entirely and upload it for all. Do you want it rooted or would you prefer to do so yourself? It would be. ROM and not odin specific. I too hate Google and have everything removed except Gmail play store and modded YouTube. Battary life is pretty amazing too.
Donations are always,welcomed for my work I do. Not needed but does aid me for my daily endeavours.
Sent from my G955F
mudnightoil said:
Bump
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need to bump since you won't find anything, the formula for aosp is a Snapdragon cpu and an unlocked bootloader. You bought the wrong phone.
peachpuff said:
No need to bump since you won't find anything, the formula for aosp is a Snapdragon cpu and an unlocked bootloader. You bought the wrong phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the Nth time, if you're going to bother to reply, then at least read what I have written and explained in a number of posts.
Nowhere have I asked for AOSP. It'll come when it comes, but I need a fix in the mean time.
I am asking for a modified stock ROM with Google removed by default. Something that has existed in the past, and which it's incredible if it does not exist among the hundreds of modified stock ROMs for the S8 variants.
Also, Snapdragon certainly isn't a prerequisite for AOSP. Samsung released all the sources a while ago. Huawei (Kirin & slow to release any / all sources and unreleased drivers) have AOSP.
I think the main impediment is that the S8/S8+/Note8 have been very expensive. But given that an S8 can now be bought for the same or less than a 64GB OP 5T in Europe, and has obviously better hardware, I suspect there will be a great deal more development effort incoming. Per my original post, my S8+ cost €524 from one of the largest e-tailers in Germany. A 5T costs €499.
this.guy.lol said:
To the OP I'd be happy to take stock from a backup and remove all Google apps entirely and upload it for all. Do you want it rooted or would you prefer to do so yourself? It would be. ROM and not odin specific. I too hate Google and have everything removed except Gmail play store and modded YouTube. Battary life is pretty amazing too.
Donations are always,welcomed for my work I do. Not needed but does aid me for my daily endeavours.
Sent from my G955F
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's very kind. The only problem I foresee, as mentioned earlier, is that removing Google from a ROM which doesn't have a maintained Google-free version means that every significant OTA update is likely to 're-infect' the system.
I think the most likely chance of success is a minor fork of ICE / BatMan / Renovate (i.e. one of the most popular modified stock ROMs) with a default Google-free version. This way, it may well attract enough interest that even if you stop, someone else will maintain it. They're so popular that there might be enough interest to maintain it even after LOS15.1 and derivatives are working and stable.
mudnightoil said:
For the Nth time, if you're going to bother to reply, then at least read what I have written and explained in a number of posts.
Nowhere have I asked for AOSP. It'll come when it comes, but I need a fix in the mean time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah you're right, my bad.
mudnightoil said:
Samsung released all the sources a while ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For exynos?
I am asking for a modified stock ROM with Google removed by default. Something that has existed in the past, and which it's incredible if it does not exist among the hundreds of modified stock ROMs for the S8 variants.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now why didn't you do your research before buying this phone? Did you just assume you'd find a google free touchwiz rom? It doesn't take long to skim through the dev section and see every rom is basically stock with little tweaks here and there. Its not like you bought the phone on day 1, its been out for 8 months or so.
So like i said before, you bought the wrong phone, give it back and get that op5t if you don't want google on your phone. Flash aosp and voila, no google unless you flash gapps.
mudnightoil said:
That's very kind. The only problem I foresee, as mentioned earlier, is that removing Google from a ROM which doesn't have a maintained Google-free version means that every significant OTA update is likely to 're-infect' the system.
I think the most likely chance of success is a minor fork of ICE / BatMan / Renovate (i.e. one of the most popular modified stock ROMs) with a default Google-free version. This way, it may well attract enough interest that even if you stop, someone else will maintain it. They're so popular that there might be enough interest to maintain it even after LOS15.1 and derivatives are working and stable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
itll be 7 months before we see aosp on s8 and s8 plus. as for the other thing, i have a base im working on atm. when an update comes along ill make one from it. in the meantime, the build i use is super fast and compared to the others you mentioned like ice and batman, its way better for snappy and so on. if interested let me know. itll take me around 6 hours to get it going and another 3 to upload if im lucky. donations on this would be highly highly appreciated but not needed
this.guy.lol said:
itll be 7 months before we see aosp on s8 and s8 plus. as for the other thing, i have a base im working on atm. when an update comes along ill make one from it. in the meantime, the build i use is super fast and compared to the others you mentioned like ice and batman, its way better for snappy and so on. if interested let me know. itll take me around 6 hours to get it going and another 3 to upload if im lucky. donations on this would be highly highly appreciated but not needed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it'll be much sooner than that. Price matters. It'll fall even further once the S9 is out. But anyway ....
What's the base? Will it have Aroma?
It would probably be a good idea to make a thread with details, and then you can gauge interest and thereby likelihood of donations.
Once I actually have the phone (it's in DE and I'm currently in NL) and get round to installing it, I'd of course contribute, provided it is indeed suitable.
mudnightoil said:
I think it'll be much sooner than that. Price matters. It'll fall even further once the S9 is out. But anyway ....
What's the base? Will it have Aroma?
It would probably be a good idea to make a thread with details, and then you can gauge interest and thereby likelihood of donations.
Once I actually have the phone (it's in DE and I'm currently in NL) and get round to installing it, I'd of course contribute, provided it is indeed suitable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Base will be 7.0/7.1.1 as its the most stable as far as speed is concerned. Aroma will be an option yes. I'm still learning how to make threads in here. Would love to have a place holder of sorts. Ill look into more later on. Be looking for my other account on here to post the ROM. The name is LVL7MODZ