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I'm really tired of all the complaining and bickering going on in this forum lately.
It's getting out of hand.
Especially from **** heads that didn't show their faces until after the hard work was done. Those that don't show up when the forum needs something but only show up when they need something.
Where were you when we were collecting money?
Instead of complaining, did you ever think to ask some of the leaders in the forum, what you could do to give back?
Where were you when we were testing? All we needed was $5 from a few people but all I see is more cheap bastards that want free stuff and expect it to be PERFECT. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Think of it this way...if you bricked your device after 20 other people have successfully "patched" it, then something else is wrong. Work with people in the forum to figure out what. Keep a cool head. We know how tough it is to spend high dollar on a device then have it not work...but you use solutions here at your own risk so it's not the developers fault IT IS YOUR FAULT. Learn to post based on other postings. Don't yell and start complaining. I'm not a developer myself but contribute in other ways. If I was a developer I would leave this forum because of the verbal abuse. STOP COMPLAINING ALREADY!
Read the forum. Most of the **** has already been done. I'm not upset because people are asking questions due to not understanding something along your research. Don't get me wrong, the forum is here to help people and it's helped me a lot. I'm upset because of all the bashing going on lately. It's getting out of hand. I'm also upset because many of you that are actually benefitting from these solutions didn't show your faces until all the hard work was done. Don't tell me you couldn't afford a measly $5 or to contribute your time in some way or ask the people involved...what can I do to give back to the community I leech from.....you get my point.
Note, I'm not going to respond to ANYONE regarding this thread. Just chill the out and let's work together. If your device breaks, READ and try to educate yourself first instead of blaming the developer who took time to contribute their knowledge and provided us with a solution we needed or wanted. If you don't like how things are going....GET INVOLVED WHEN YOU NEED TO...DON'T COMPLAIN BECAUSE YOU'RE USING A SOLUTION SOMEONE WROTE ON THEIR FREE TIME TO HELP YOU OUT! MY GOD PEOPLE!
If you think you might get upset, mess your phone up, or otherwise...JUST DON'T USE THE SOLUTIONS POSTED ON THIS FORUM PERIOD.
If the above doesn't make sense...oh well. Needed to get that off my chest. I'm not a writer either so if it's all mashed together, oh well. If you're smart enough you'll get my point. If not, then just ignore the thread and go on.
Well Said ltxda. If only people would listen could curb their emotions a bit and apply logic sometimes....but then we are emotional beings.
Well I agree anyway. Everything is done at your own risk in these forums...and while we are at it...you know complaining about complainers and so forth...
..has anyone actually bricked their device (rendered it 'dead' or incapable of being restored somehow)...you know killed it?
I don't recall anyone having had that experience since... say...Olipro's unlocker. Point being...it's safe for all...and that was the intention of the SPL patch in the first place..whether simple to use or not.
C'mon friends...let's close the divide eat some humble pie together and get back to the business of progress and development...I'll leave that last bit to the devs.lol
If it helps I'll go first...Sorry if I offended anyone of late.
I meant that BTW. If it it's not good enough..sorry the offense ran so deep...sorry again.
OK...back to business
Developer Midget_1990 should be getting his X7500 within the next few days hopefully. We wanted different variants of the Athena to ensure there any and all solutions would definitely work across the board.
Custom ROMs coming soon.
Why don't we put our heads together to finalize/agree on the wish list of software that should be incorporated into the ROM/Vanilla ROM?
Has anyone found any VGA converted files for the Kaiser plug-in .cabs? That would be nice.
well said lt.. well said...
Agree with all these comments and want to add my take on the situation. All of us were newbies at some point (except for Oli I guess), and we have all been there. I remember sweating the first time I made a registry change.
1. We need to be a little patient with newbies. We want them to become a part of the community, not drive them away.
2. Saying "Just use search" or "See the Wiki" isn't always helpful. Sometimes relevant threads are 20+ pages, hard to sift through all that and figure out what is really the **** and what is some lame-ass crap from some poor soul who is as clueless as me. And have you actually looked at the Athena Wiki lately. Not much there. I would feel more sympathetic to the dismissive tone if the Wiki were more up to date. (I know, that's me too!)
** Tip for newbies, go to Advanced Search, select just the Athena forum, and search by post not thread. That may help narrow things down.
ON THE OTHER HAND:
3. I'm pretty cautious in making major changes. Flashed my Wizard ROM probably 4 times in over a year... and still waiting to flash my Advantage. I appreciate the brave souls who will flash weekly or more, I learn a lot from you guys. But I don't have the time to constantly set things back up over and over, so I wait for an upgrade that I feel confident will do what I want. Plus I know my limitations, if something really terrible happens I'm not smart enough to quickly recover. I read everything there is to read before doing anything major.
SO WHY IS IT THAT SOME PEOPLE TAKE HOME A NEW DEVICE AND FLASH AWAY WITHOUT READING A DAMN THING? Then cry that they bricked their phone? (probably not) How can we get the message of BE CAREFUL across? Look before you leap, etc. Maybe there needs to be a sticky at the very top explaining who should be messing with what. Maybe every link to a ROM should have a warning label. Something.
Sorry to go on. I really appreciate the expertise on this forum and enjoy being able to contribute in some small ways. But we need a more civil tone. I hate to see things deteriorate.
"I was once like you are now, and I know that its not easy,
To be calm when youve found something going on.
But take your time, think a lot,
Why, think of everything youve got.
For you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not...."
Cat Stevens...
I think XDA-DEV is the best forum I ever seen about HTC devices. So many
thoroughbred horses here, and everybody involved in management knows how hard is to keep them working together ... Forget Customer Relationship Management
Keep this discussion clean (language, flaming et.al.). I understand the frustration, but bickering in the forum (or anywhere) is pointless.
jwzg said:
Keep this discussion clean (language, flaming et.al.). I understand the frustration, but bickering in the forum (or anywhere) is pointless.
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Agreed. Sorry I lost it again.
thx for cleaning up the unlocker threat.
It took a while before the Hermes forum to start getting crazy. I don't have my device for a week yet and there is already a lot sh*t among members already. For the Athena, I thought this would not happen until WM7. Anyway, let's get along people.
Bickering and namecalling
I think some of the newer guys should also look in the historie of things. The hermes forum had simmilar issues with jasjamming. For lot of the developers it not just someone asking a question, but another one asking the same thing. It's can be very frustrating, and some handle it better than others. I think it's safe to say that Olipro doesn't hadle it very well, and vents his frustration at the one asking the question. Wether i agree with him or not i do understand him.
As for the people asking questions. First search if your question hasn't been asked before... If you can't find it search again.
Give as much information as you can. Be specific about versions you use. Give the output of the software you get.If you're aked to give information you have given before, just give it again. Remember you are the one wanting help, so make it easy to help you, don't make the other one search for information.
And remember one thing: Free software is often provided "as is". No guarantees and no support. Assume that if it goes wrong, that you are on your own. Any support given is a bonus. Having said that, you'll find that there are enough people willing to help as long as you are patient and polite (or at least civil).
Hi!
I was just wondering if anyone would like to point me and others in the direction of some other useful threads to check out that relate to our Hero. (Not Superman, he's still GSM only)
For example, I've wondered if any subforums other than Hero CDMA in the HTC Hero Forums here on XDA have any useful info or downloads that are relevant. Also, I've been wondering the same thing about the general Android forums here on XDA.
I keep a CDMA Hero bookmark button on top of Firefox, but does anyone have any good suggestions of other sites or subforums/threads that I can add along with it and check about as much as I check Facebook, Gmail and Plentyoffish? Hahaha
The thread list is up at the top.. Under search..
Have fun with it..
http://geekfor.me/
http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-hero/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=519
these are my bookmarks on this install, i have a ton more on my other computer but can't remember them now, these are the ones i've used this week
There is plenty to read and learn both in the G2 section, and in the wider general Android forum. I highly recommend checking it out.
Haha, yeah, thanks. I was about to say thanks, ****, but I saw you're joking so it's cool.
Before anyone tries to use the old "google it" line on me, let me say, yeah - I've googled it before. I know several good sites to check out other than XDA, like android central and so on.
I'm just wondering what other people check religiously like I check this subforum.
I'm also mainly curious to know if there's even any point reading through stuff on in the GSM Hero subforums. It's so lame that we only get one lousy little subforum! There's bound to be a wealth of knowledge, downloads, etc. in the GSM subforums, but I just don't want to waste my time or learn harmful/useless things.
By the way, if I could soapbox for a minute (and this has nothing to do with the post above this one, lol), I've noticed a lot of rudeness in the CDMA Hero posts, and it's a shame.
Of course it gets annoying to see people begging for help with common issues that have been addressed a hundred times. No one denies that, but it's just something that will always be there. Unless there is a quiz on the basics of flashing ROMs and using a device before one can make posts on here, it's always going to happen. Getting annoyed with this is understandable.
However, I've noticed other types of threads posted, which while a bit annoying because we've seen the same thing over and over, really don't deserve the rudeness that they get. Who cares if there are 50 threads on here where people ask what other people prefer to use as a daily ROM, or what their home screen looks like? Does anyone lose any money or time over this? Is there a thread limit here? No. This is a community of people who have the same device and who all want to get the best out of their devices. If a thread is pointless, it will be buried quickly when no one posts in it, and the more popular threads will remain on the first page. A pointless thread will continue to stay on the first page though, when someone takes the time to make a rude post!
Anyway, sorry to rant on and on about it, but it would really be great to see the CDMA Hero community work together a little better and be a little less anal. This is probably the number one site that people with our phone check to learn more and update and generally get more out of the Hero experience. Instead of scaring people away from making new threads and posts to ask people what they like and why they like it, we should really try to encourage this. The more we all come together and explore things together (regardless of how repetitive and in some opinions possibly even trivial some of these things may be), the more we grow as a whole, and I am sure that this kind of atmosphere will encourage more people to make more and more interesting contributions.
The beauty of Android and of XDA Developers Forums is that they were both created with the goal of people coming together and developing, creating, tweaking, designing, and discussing. Before the Hero, I was permanently glued to a Dell Axim x51v, and between these forums and HTCGeeks, and a friendly and open community of users and developers, we've taken the device FAR beyond anything that anyone could have dreamed it could get to when it was made, what, 5 years ago?
thedudejdog said:
http://geekfor.me/
http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-hero/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=519
these are my bookmarks on this install, i have a ton more on my other computer but can't remember them now, these are the ones i've used this week
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Click to collapse
Thanks a lot, I'm going to add these into a "Hero" bookmarks folder!
tejasrichard said:
There is plenty to read and learn both in the G2 section, and in the wider general Android forum. I highly recommend checking it out.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the info!
GSM Hero Themes/Apps Thread
Curious - is this thread useful at all to us, or will any themes and apps be useless since we're CDMA?
I already know (I think) that GSM themes won't work because they're probably designed for GSM ROMs, so all kinds of things won't be compatible. (Like trying to use a 1.5 theme on a 2.1 ROM)
Are things like widgets and clocks ROM and/or device specific? I'm on a widget hunt.
I'm new to using Helix and I'd love to find some widgets that compare to the awesome Sense widgets, particularly Sense's beautiful Messaging, Mail, Music, and Friendstream widgets.
raynda said:
However, I've noticed other types of threads posted, which while a bit annoying because we've seen the same thing over and over, really don't deserve the rudeness that they get. Who cares if there are 50 threads on here where people ask what other people prefer to use as a daily ROM, or what their home screen looks like? Does anyone lose any money or time over this? Is there a thread limit here? No. This is a community of people who have the same device and who all want to get the best out of their devices. If a thread is pointless, it will be buried quickly when no one posts in it, and the more popular threads will remain on the first page. A pointless thread will continue to stay on the first page though, when someone takes the time to make a rude post!
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It's not that we care that there is a hundred threads that say the same thing, its that if there are 100 threads of the same topic, it in effect, makes our forum usage a terror, because navigation is almost doomed from the beginning in that situation..
And it is not going to be something that is always there, because with mods actually modding these threads on other forums that I frequent daily, *they are virtually non-existant...
For the "noob" users, they cannot find these answers efficiently because the forum is blasted with the same thing over and over... With different answers in each thread..
The only way to make the "noob's" life easier, is to format the forum in a efficient and knowledge ready way...
Which by letting noob's overrun your forum, is not possible... We are hateful because you are feeding an endless chain of questions, when it could be handled in a much more effective way, if it wasn't for people flaming people who are actually looking out for the forum....
raynda said:
By the way, if I could soapbox for a minute (and this has nothing to do with the post above this one, lol), I've noticed a lot of rudeness in the CDMA Hero posts, and it's a shame.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, it's kinda bad here... It's like that on pretty much any technical forum, but things are really over the top on this one.
It's to the point now that when I do have a question I feel like I need to devote one short paragraph to asking the question, then tack on 5 more long paragraphs explaining that I already DID search, came up empty handed, searched again, explain which keywords I searched on, etc....
Surely there's a happy medium that can be found...
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
We are hateful because you are feeding an endless chain of questions, when it could be handled in a much more effective way, if it wasn't for people flaming people who are actually looking out for the forum....
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Hey, I'm not trying to come off defensive to you in this reply because I appreciate your posts on here, but are you saying that I personally am feeding an endless chain of questions?
Also, maybe I'm wrong, but I think that the problem may be in people looking out for the forum too much, when the point of this whole XDA Developers Forum thing should be to look out for the fellow user. Like I said though, I may be wrong.
And I don't mean that it's perfectly cool to have hundreds of the same thread in here, I agree that is useless clutter. I just think that some threads that get posted do have potential for the good of the community, but they get squashed quickly by posters with bad attitudes, and then the OP in that thread and others who have the same thoughts and questions become too embarrassed or insulted/offended to post again. When that happens, someone who may have eventually provided something amazing to the community will either never get to that point, or will get there and just won't post it here because of the bad experience.
I'm sure that there are all kinds of amazing things that people have tweaked, developed, designed, and created, but they're never going to be publicly released for one reason or another. Let's not let the reason be that they were treated like they were stupid when they were finding their way on these forums.
subliminalurge said:
Yeah, it's kinda bad here... It's like that on pretty much any technical forum, but things are really over the top on this one.
It's to the point now that when I do have a question I feel like I need to devote one short paragraph to asking the question, then tack on 5 more long paragraphs explaining that I already DID search, came up empty handed, searched again, explain which keywords I searched on, etc....
Surely there's a happy medium that can be found...
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Click to collapse
That's exactly what I'm talking about. People will get to the point that they just won't post anything when they have an idea or a question because there's no happy medium. And the worse it gets, the less progress we make as a whole.
raynda said:
Hey, I'm not trying to come off defensive to you in this reply because I appreciate your posts on here, but are you saying that I personally am feeding an endless chain of questions?
Also, maybe I'm wrong, but I think that the problem may be in people looking out for the forum too much, when the point of this whole XDA Developers Forum thing should be to look out for the fellow user. Like I said though, I may be wrong.
And I don't mean that it's perfectly cool to have hundreds of the same thread in here, I agree that is useless clutter. I just think that some threads that get posted do have potential for the good of the community, but they get squashed quickly by posters with bad attitudes, and then the OP in that thread and others who have the same thoughts and questions become too embarrassed or insulted/offended to post again. When that happens, someone who may have eventually provided something amazing to the community will either never get to that point, or will get there and just won't post it here because of the bad experience.
I'm sure that there are all kinds of amazing things that people have tweaked, developed, designed, and created, but they're never going to be publicly released for one reason or another. Let's not let the reason be that they were treated like they were stupid when they were finding their way on these forums.
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No not you specifically. Sorry that was an analogous "you".. And I totally agree.. But 95% of the ones get shot down immediately, deserve it, even though you might not think so, from the people with answers, you will know almost immediately if it merits further investigation. Wishful-thinking and impossible sometimes walk a very narrow line. Developers and end-users have entirely different mindsets.. That's never going to change.. But the end-users should have a more thorough understanding of what it is we do for you and *developers should be more compassionate "for the most part (there are alot of caring devs)..
Where this sub-forum was destroyed, was giving it sub-forum status and not its own separate forum, like every other HTC device.. Then, we would get a development sub-forum, themes forum, etc. The development is different than the GSM Hero, so why doesn't it deserve its own?
You will see, that with honest concerns and problems, I will go to the end of the world for you...
But, if you want something from me, (effort to help you) you must at least show some sort of effort to solve the issue, besides "NEW TOPIC< IS MY PHONE BRICKED?"
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
You will see, that with honest concerns and problems, I will go to the end of the world for you...
But, if you want something from me, (effort to help you) you must at least show some sort of effort to solve the issue, besides "NEW TOPIC< IS MY PHONE BRICKED?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can definitely see your point.
But this is where the happy medium needs to be found. I know I'm the exception rather than the rule on this point, but by the time I post asking for help, it's safe to say I've spent at least one day each both trying to figure out an answer on my own (and I'm fairly capable), and searching this forum, other forums, and google to see if anyone else has had and solved the same problem.
That's effort that isn't seen, but it's extremely frustrating to feel obligated to explain it all in detail in exchange for the privilege of asking a question.
Now, don't take this post the wrong way. There's absolutely nothing wrong with expecting people to do a little digging on their own before they come crying for help.
I just think this forum (as a whole, not you specifically) has gone a bit over the top with how much "proof" of that digging is required before someone can feel comfortable asking their question.
(And I'm not really even complaining, just offering my observations on a topic that was already brought up for discussion....)
I get very sarcastic... But only because I think sarcasm is funny...
And you really don't have to explain it yourself *in every post.. Because most of us with a thorough background, can tell how much effort you put in, just by your question... (edit* Yourself is again analogous, not you)
For Example, the 2.1 thread this morning...
I opened it up, thinking to myself "Not again"...
But when I read and see that it was actually about A2DP, mindset about the thread changes, and I go into help mode... That invoked thought and development just from that post..
Now if I had opened it up, and it was a brand new "Can I change back to a rooted rom after the OTA update" question... I would have went into sarcasm mode... And I don't want to help that guy be lazy.. Why should we give him the benefit of spouting off verbatim what has been answered 1000 times before, just because he can't take the 20 mins to peruse over a couple threads??
I am all about the education of every single member of this forum, into all of the ways of Android... But its like what my papaw used to tell me, "You get what you put in."
And to ray...
Download GMOB chat, from the market...
Go to the rooted users chat, and there is usually alot of good info there, you just have to sort of wade through some of it, since you only get to see like the 50 most recent posts.. So it takes a little more effort to find anything... Also the apps room is pretty cool...
I have found technorati.com is getting alot better...
androidfreeware.com is good for apps.
OK, now to take the completely opposite side....
I was just reading another topic and in 5 minutes I saw 3 different questions posted that had been answered ON THAT SAME PAGE!!!
The proper profanity has not yet been invented to describe people like that.
See subliminal...
It's not that I don't wanna see those questions asked, I just want people to understand the nature of a forum, and alot* here do not...
If people read, before they start looking for answers, we would be alot better..
The issue is, that all of these people look to have a very limited understanding of Android, and just want a phone to use.. And this is not the forum for those.. Android-central, sprintusers.com, etc are more appropriate..
This forum is for development, not for chatting about the evo, or why your 1.5 is better than 2.1.. or how android is the iphone killer..
This forum is to bring ideas to our platform, and to build upon them... And to release mods and hacks..
Not for people to rant about how sprint sucks, and I want a nexus one..
Or to rant about how developers are stealing our donations....
It is to make our phone better, and with people feeding this nonsense, we are hindering the forum from where it should be...
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
Not for people to rant about how sprint sucks, and I want a nexus one..
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But what if Sprint sucks, the Nexus One is a POS...
AND....
Why can't I get a Nexus One on Sprint?
(I really do understand both sides of the issue. I just kinda agree that some on this forum are a bit quick on the draw with the "Use the search you ****in' noob!" gun....)
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
And to ray...
Download GMOB chat, from the market...
Go to the rooted users chat, and there is usually alot of good info there, you just have to sort of wade through some of it, since you only get to see like the 50 most recent posts.. So it takes a little more effort to find anything... Also the apps room is pretty cool...
I have found technorati.com is getting alot better...
androidfreeware.com is good for apps.
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Click to collapse
Hey thanks, I'll check that out! By the way, after thinking about it today and catching up on this thread's replies, I think we're thinking on the same page.
It would be handy, I think, if we could get some extremely well written and dummy-proof How-To's stickied for the main page. I know there is already a sticky wicky for guides, but I remember still being a bit lost even having read them when I was new to the Hero. I wrote some extremely detailed step by step how-to's for the x51v over at htcgeeks, and though it might be my own vanity speaking, I think that it slowed down the constant repetitive questions. I'd volunteer to help out with this if we could get some Mod help to reorganize the stickies. I think we should have individual ones for...
- How To Setup an SD Card for A2SD
- How To Install Recovery and How To Use It (Nandroids, what they are, wipes, which ones to use for what, Fix UID's explanation, etc.)
- How To Flash a Custom ROM
- How To Flash a Custom Theme
- Troubleshooting PC Sync Issues
- How To Setup and Use ADB Shell with a list of ADB functions
I know we have this stuff now, but I remember it took a while to find all the info I needed to learn all these things when I was new to the Hero, and the current Guides sticky wasn't as helpful as it could have been. And I'm a pretty resourceful and intelligent guy who can search, read, and follow instructions! (Or at least I like to think so, lol)
Oh, and to make a preventative strike against hundreds of future bug reports on new ROMs, giant bold text on every page of every thread that says "WIPE DATA, DALVIK CACHE, AND SD EXT BEFORE FLASHING A DIFFERENT ROM!!!
I have experimented with quite a few different ROM's, and have enjoyed trying them all out.
Just wanted to post a thought out there, and see if this would be worth pursuing or if something like this exists...
A table that compares the ROMs, version, refresh date, developers, features, additional software, bugs, etc, so folks can compare the different ROMs on one page.
Link the name of the ROM to its actual thread.
Just a thought I wanted to throw out there......
Thanks,
-Sf-
The closest thing that we have is this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=649705
But, it doesn't lay it out all that clearly without having to go to each thread and read through. Also, it is about 5 weeks since it was last updated, and we all know how much has been done in the last few weeks (especially Froyo...).
I think this is a pretty good idea. If you want to do something like this, I'd be willing to lend a hand. I am on vacation this week so have a lot of free time anyway.
I think that we could build on that format -
Add major features, bugs, developer name, etc.
Thanks,
-Sf-
It's easier to just link to all of them... you can take the time to go through the Dev's home page. After all, that leaves it up to the topic creator to update every single ROM's bugs and updates, which you can't expect them to do.
Sure, it would be easier to do that...for the posters. But, I feel that the people wanting to check out the roms would appreciate a nice overview of features and bugs then having to wade through some of the toics which can be dozens of pages, if not more. I'll probably start working on this tomorrow, since I've been spending the day figuring out why my parents computer sucks so bad. Found it - 256MB of RAM. ugh lol
this IS a great idea...would be very hard to keep it up to date and what happens if the one guy that posted the topic falls off the face of the earth? as a lot of people seem to do.
not trying to stop it before it begins. i'm willing to comb a topic or two and submit my findings...gonna need a bunch of volunteers to do the same to get multiple ROMs listed.
dusthead said:
this IS a great idea...would be very hard to keep it up to date and what happens if the one guy that posted the topic falls off the face of the earth? as a lot of people seem to do.
not trying to stop it before it begins. i'm willing to comb a topic or two and submit my findings...gonna need a bunch of volunteers to do the same to get multiple ROMs listed.
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Click to collapse
Agreed - I have seen lists on other websites, and they still show evil eris 1.1 as the most up to date. However, that being said, we are the most active android forum out there, especially for the Eris. I think this has the best shot in being the most accurate on the web.
We already have a comparison guide.
Its called xda-developers.com!
Lazy...lazy...lazy....
Just read! Its the best way to fully understand the ROM anyways. Way better than a spreadsheet with checkmarks and whatnot.
But if someone was willing to take the time, which would undoubtedly take A LOT of time, to list pros, cons, features, bugs, versions, updates, and all that jazz, it MAY be worth looking. But we've seen stuff like this before, it gets created, and then never looked at again.
Great idea! Yes people are lazy for not doing their own homework...but there are so many ROMs out there. I have read through almost every page of topics to the 4 or 5 ROMs I have interest in, and often find myself confusing features, bugs, etc of those ROMs simply because there are SO many pages to read through and so much to keep up with(especially when some of these topics are in excess of 200 pages). Among these 200+ pages are maybe 25 pages really worth any knowledge of having about the ROM...the other 175 are filled with redundant information, outdated problems that have been solved, and off topic or unrelated posts.
DO IT!
I was kinda thinking about creating a guide on my website since I can't really think of anything else to do with the domain/server I have lol...
or if someone else wants to, I can give them FTP access to a folder and I'll just host it.
Just an idea.
es0tericcha0s said:
Sure, it would be easier to do that...for the posters. But, I feel that the people wanting to check out the roms would appreciate a nice overview of features and bugs then having to wade through some of the toics which can be dozens of pages, if not more. I'll probably start working on this tomorrow, since I've been spending the day figuring out why my parents computer sucks so bad. Found it - 256MB of RAM. ugh lol
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Yeah... but what happens if you stop updating? And how will you determine whether bugs are just one persons or all of theirs? And almost every ROM page I've seen has the bugs listed on the first post. I'm just saying the current system isn't just "ok" it's the best way to do it. You don't have to read through the entire thread to know the bugs, you can read the first post.
Well, it looks like interest in this idea is underwhelming at best. I'd be all about putting some time into this, but not for 3 people...
Sounds good to me!
This sounds like a great idea to me. I'll admit it would probably take a great about of effort and time to create and maintain but I'd be more than willing to lend my efforts to put something like this together and help keep it up to date. For all of you who are happy with the current system, it will still be there so keep using it. I don't think this is meant to be a complete list of everything there is to know about a ROM, more of an overview (correct me if im wrong). Plus, this would be GREAT for people who've just rooted and are trying to figure out what to try first. We all know its important to read a thread in its entirety before you flash
Just my $0.02
f z o n g
TheFzong said:
This sounds like a great idea to me. I'll admit it would probably take a great about of effort and time to create and maintain but I'd be more than willing to lend my efforts to put something like this together and help keep it up to date. For all of you who are happy with the current system, it will still be there so keep using it. I don't think this is meant to be a complete list of everything there is to know about a ROM, more of an overview (correct me if im wrong). Plus, this would be GREAT for people who've just rooted and are trying to figure out what to try first. We all know its important to read a thread in its entirety before you flash
Just my $0.02
f z o n g
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree - this list should be an "easy" way to glance over the different ROMs, and do a high level comparison. So if someone prefer's hero ports for example, they can go to the developer's page to determine if that ROM is right for them.
Just like when you research out a new computer, I usually do a high level comparison at first before I start digging into the "nuts and bolts"
I don't think it's a bad idea necessarily, I don't mean to crap all over it but here is what would need to happen:
The poster of the thread would need to understand bugs and things that have to do with the ROM's. They would need to be able to differentiate between one person's bug and a bug that multiple people are having and one that everyone is having.
The poster would need to stay updating this... what happens when they get a new phone? What happens if their computer breaks? Blah blah blah there are a thousand ways you can stop.
Really what you need is a Wiki, that way multiple people could update the information. Developers could submit their own ROM updates if they wanted and users could add reviews, comments etc.
Hungry Man said:
I don't think it's a bad idea necessarily, I don't mean to crap all over it but here is what would need to happen:
The poster of the thread would need to understand bugs and things that have to do with the ROM's. They would need to be able to differentiate between one person's bug and a bug that multiple people are having and one that everyone is having.
The poster would need to stay updating this... what happens when they get a new phone? What happens if their computer breaks? Blah blah blah there are a thousand ways you can stop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
for example. . . . what happens when your girlfriend kicks you out and you leave in a rage and forget your computer and storage drives. . . . (was working under the radar on something of the sort but low and behold victim of circumstance.
http://code.google.com/p/erisromtracker/
I'm primarily a web designer but know Rails as well, and a bit of PHP. I'd be willing to put some work into this, but I don't have time to do the whole thing on my own.
I'm thinking of a community-powered web app. Any registered user can edit anything. Edits can be "dugg" by other members to represent validity...I dunno, just some first thoughts.
I made the project page so that people could add ideas/etc and there would be an organized, sane place for figuring out how the whole thing would work, as well as a central repository for any work that actually gets done. It also just doesn't make a lot of sense to use a thread to do this, especially when we're trying to get around people using threads to do this.
^^^^
Eoghann said:
Really what you need is a Wiki, that way multiple people could update the information. Developers could submit their own ROM updates if they wanted and users could add reviews, comments etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
And this
Much better ideas because it's not just one person's job.
Man, I guess I'm one of the lazy ones! Actually, I've been looking through all the ROMs in lust (because I can't root - yet) and I need an easy way to figure out what the main differences are. I'd be in large favor of this!
With the dozens of ROMS out there for our device, it would be nice and helpful if a thread was made where people could post an in-depth comparison between these roms and possibly even a ranking system in terms of downloads, review score, user feedback etc. Another possibility is a guide that would help them choose the best ROM for them.
I've been on my custom rom ever since but that decision came after hours and hours of research and reading the threads of the other ROM chefs and visiting other websites as well. It would be really helpful to the newer members who would like to modify their phones to have a dedicated review thread/area where everything is there to read.
I know this sounds lazy but it would save hundreds of research hours and make choosing the right rom suited for each individual faster and easier.
I could do it if I had the proper experience and knowledge, but sadly, I am but a noob.
I'm just throwing ideas around and see if this is a good idea. Anyone interested in this? The community will be in gratitude if this becomes a reality
i think i posted in the wrong subforum? uhmm... sorry mods. Please move if inappropriate.
I don't think this is such a good idea, to be honest
First, it might be cause for some rather immature users to go about saying this or that is the best or this is better than that in so and so ROM etc. It's hard to find people who can give good reviews because no matter what, there's always that bias and sense of loyalty. Even comparative reviews may be hard to come by because I don't think a lot of people use a particular ROM for a long enough period of time before jumping to try another one (or they just try one, and stick to that one for whatever reason..be it because they're satisfied already, or aren't the type to want to try everything out) then once they settle on one they like, they can't really say much in terms of comparison about others they've tried before since ROMs constantly get updated. Like I may have stopped using a particular ROM because of bugs and such and move on to something else but who knows, those bugs could've been addressed already by then etc.
The thing of it is, someone will always have a different user experience from someone else. And it really depends on the person's usage of the phone. And it's really upto the user to do his/her own research. Because if we just have a thread where people will just look for whatever has the most reviews then they're just gonna jump right in to flash it perhaps without further in depth reading.. We already have a thread which is a constantly updated index of the ROMs already available. People can just start off from there, check out whatever seems appealing based on the description and jump to that thread for some further reading or ask their questions there. Opening up a thread like this might further fragment support around here. People might start asking questions on that thread, submit their complaints, ask for help, report problems etc. Even if you tell people to not do those things in that thread..well not everyone likes reading through all of the first post.
And unfortunately, not everyone is accustomed to use the ever helpful search box so they end up posting questions that already have been answered over and over again. And instead of checking out the step by step guides, they have people walk them through the process. Some people are so in a hurry to jump into custom ROMs that they end up making mistakes and bricking their phone. Some..how you say..rude users even go so far as to blame the ROM maker or the beta testers for not doing a good job because they have this or that freak bug they happen to get.
Not that I'm against helping people, especially newbies (I'm a helper on Doc's thread) but I think it would be a benefit to people especially new users to do some of their own research and discover things on their own. The respective threads of the ROMs provide more than enough information, reviews, complaints, help, guides etc.
People won't ever learn if they're spoon fed information and such all the time. I'm all for trying to make the whole experience easier for any kind of user, but I'm also all for people to do some of their own work and learn on their own. It's not just a matter of trying to save people time, it's a matter of letting people get the best user experience for them. It's not a matter of lessening the amount of people asking for help, but it's a matter of wanting them to learn.
Sometimes saving people time and effort isn't the best idea if it just gives them problems later they can't figure out on their own.
Sorry for the lengthy reply. Just my 100 pesos. Lol.
I don't mean any offense or whatever to anyone, okay? I love helping people when I have time and I just think helping people help themselves is the best. You know like..give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime..that kinda stuff.
I hope my post came off as logical and with all due respect.
Peace~
Preach
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
anoneemooz said:
I don't think this is such a good idea, to be honest
First, it might be cause for some rather immature users to go about saying this or that is the best or this is better than that in so and so ROM etc. It's hard to find people who can give good reviews because no matter what, there's always that bias and sense of loyalty. Even comparative reviews may be hard to come by because I don't think a lot of people use a particular ROM for a long enough period of time before jumping to try another one (or they just try one, and stick to that one for whatever reason..be it because they're satisfied already, or aren't the type to want to try everything out) then once they settle on one they like, they can't really say much in terms of comparison about others they've tried before since ROMs constantly get updated. Like I may have stopped using a particular ROM because of bugs and such and move on to something else but who knows, those bugs could've been addressed already by then etc.
The thing of it is, someone will always have a different user experience from someone else. And it really depends on the person's usage of the phone. And it's really upto the user to do his/her own research. Because if we just have a thread where people will just look for whatever has the most reviews then they're just gonna jump right in to flash it perhaps without further in depth reading.. We already have a thread which is a constantly updated index of the ROMs already available. People can just start off from there, check out whatever seems appealing based on the description and jump to that thread for some further reading or ask their questions there. Opening up a thread like this might further fragment support around here. People might start asking questions on that thread, submit their complaints, ask for help, report problems etc. Even if you tell people to not do those things in that thread..well not everyone likes reading through all of the first post.
And unfortunately, not everyone is accustomed to use the ever helpful search box so they end up posting questions that already have been answered over and over again. And instead of checking out the step by step guides, they have people walk them through the process. Some people are so in a hurry to jump into custom ROMs that they end up making mistakes and bricking their phone. Some..how you say..rude users even go so far as to blame the ROM maker or the beta testers for not doing a good job because they have this or that freak bug they happen to get.
Not that I'm against helping people, especially newbies (I'm a helper on Doc's thread) but I think it would be a benefit to people especially new users to do some of their own research and discover things on their own. The respective threads of the ROMs provide more than enough information, reviews, complaints, help, guides etc.
People won't ever learn if they're spoon fed information and such all the time. I'm all for trying to make the whole experience easier for any kind of user, but I'm also all for people to do some of their own work and learn on their own. It's not just a matter of trying to save people time, it's a matter of letting people get the best user experience for them. It's not a matter of lessening the amount of people asking for help, but it's a matter of wanting them to learn.
Sometimes saving people time and effort isn't the best idea if it just gives them problems later they can't figure out on their own.
Sorry for the lengthy reply. Just my 100 pesos. Lol.
I don't mean any offense or whatever to anyone, okay? I love helping people when I have time and I just think helping people help themselves is the best. You know like..give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime..that kinda stuff.
I hope my post came off as logical and with all due respect.
Peace~
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fair enough. Well said kabayan! Initially, i thought that this was a good idea. Looking at things now, it's not so attractive after all. haha. Salamat!
MODS: Kindly requesting the closure and deletion of this thread please. Thanks!
@anoneemooz,
Just a hypothetical question, if it happens that Samsung release a froyo rom (2.2 only) and it comes with your native language locale with Swype as well would you still be in the latest rom, or would you stick to the rom with those features?
Not trying to flame, but would like an honest opinion about this.
Maraming salamat sa inyo!
g00ndu said:
@anoneemooz,
Just a hypothetical question, if it happens that Samsung release a froyo rom (2.2 only) and it comes with your native language locale with Swype as well would you still be in the latest rom, or would you stick to the rom with those features?
Not trying to flame, but would like an honest opinion about this.
Maraming salamat sa inyo!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not a flame at all haha!
Well, I'm pretty used to everything being in English and I'd prefer it actually. It's a major language in the Philippines. It's my first language too so I wouldn't switch. Maybe I'd install the Swype with Filipino, but I might rarely use it since I usually stick to English or Chinese except for the occasional Filipino words which I can just type out if need be.
As for the phone's locale..I'm happy with United States or France so I'd stick to custom ROMs probably for forever. 2.2.1 ROMs have been awesome and knowing our awesome devs around here...2.3 will be even better~
anoneemooz said:
I don't think this is such a good idea, to be honest
First, it might be cause for some rather immature users to go about saying this or that is the best or this is better than that in so and so ROM etc. It's hard to find people who can give good reviews because no matter what, there's always that bias and sense of loyalty. Even comparative reviews may be hard to come by because I don't think a lot of people use a particular ROM for a long enough period of time before jumping to try another one (or they just try one, and stick to that one for whatever reason..be it because they're satisfied already, or aren't the type to want to try everything out) then once they settle on one they like, they can't really say much in terms of comparison about others they've tried before since ROMs constantly get updated. Like I may have stopped using a particular ROM because of bugs and such and move on to something else but who knows, those bugs could've been addressed already by then etc.
The thing of it is, someone will always have a different user experience from someone else. And it really depends on the person's usage of the phone. And it's really upto the user to do his/her own research. Because if we just have a thread where people will just look for whatever has the most reviews then they're just gonna jump right in to flash it perhaps without further in depth reading.. We already have a thread which is a constantly updated index of the ROMs already available. People can just start off from there, check out whatever seems appealing based on the description and jump to that thread for some further reading or ask their questions there. Opening up a thread like this might further fragment support around here. People might start asking questions on that thread, submit their complaints, ask for help, report problems etc. Even if you tell people to not do those things in that thread..well not everyone likes reading through all of the first post.
And unfortunately, not everyone is accustomed to use the ever helpful search box so they end up posting questions that already have been answered over and over again. And instead of checking out the step by step guides, they have people walk them through the process. Some people are so in a hurry to jump into custom ROMs that they end up making mistakes and bricking their phone. Some..how you say..rude users even go so far as to blame the ROM maker or the beta testers for not doing a good job because they have this or that freak bug they happen to get.
Not that I'm against helping people, especially newbies (I'm a helper on Doc's thread) but I think it would be a benefit to people especially new users to do some of their own research and discover things on their own. The respective threads of the ROMs provide more than enough information, reviews, complaints, help, guides etc.
People won't ever learn if they're spoon fed information and such all the time. I'm all for trying to make the whole experience easier for any kind of user, but I'm also all for people to do some of their own work and learn on their own. It's not just a matter of trying to save people time, it's a matter of letting people get the best user experience for them. It's not a matter of lessening the amount of people asking for help, but it's a matter of wanting them to learn.
Sometimes saving people time and effort isn't the best idea if it just gives them problems later they can't figure out on their own.
Sorry for the lengthy reply. Just my 100 pesos. Lol.
I don't mean any offense or whatever to anyone, okay? I love helping people when I have time and I just think helping people help themselves is the best. You know like..give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime..that kinda stuff.
I hope my post came off as logical and with all due respect.
Peace~
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1, i agree with you.
g00ndu said:
@anoneemooz,
Just a hypothetical question, if it happens that Samsung release a froyo rom (2.2 only) and it comes with your native language locale with Swype as well would you still be in the latest rom, or would you stick to the rom with those features?
Not trying to flame, but would like an honest opinion about this.
Maraming salamat sa inyo!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As English language is a working language in India, most of the users would prefer a phone with English as default. There would be some who use Hindi also. But they wouldn't miss Hindi on their phone.
hello, i've made an Automated Atrix ThatRom Installer.
This script will help noobs to do everything without any troubles.
The file is a rar archive with all firmware files + installer.
here is a link http://www.mobile-inform.com/content/view/1148/1/
this is early alpha. you take all responsibility on yourself. I do not recommend you to use this rom, but if you still want to use it - here it is
UPD Updated To ThatRom v2 (AtrICS)
all thanks to the author of ThatRomv2 (AtrICS), i made only the Installer!
With best regards
the_fly
I don't think that it's a good idea to make an automatic installer of something that it's no stable for someone who doesn't even know how to use fastboot nor flash a zip. Maybe when this finally reaches the stable "level", then you should do the Installer.
BravoMotorola said:
Maybe, until you're not annoying, you should stfu. Seriously stop trying to tell people what to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow dude, that was really uncalled for. He is actually right because now the op has put himself in a position to be harassed by anyone who tries this and messes up their phone even though they should and do know the risks. He was just trying to be helpful, he wasn't attacking the op for making it.
I agree making an unstable, untested, developer test build easily available to newbies is a very bad idea. If they can't at the VERY least learn how to use fastboot and adb, they should come nowhere near this ROM. Unless of course you really want to be held responsible for dozens of bricked and/or unusable phones, and be expected to provide extensive support at all times.
if they are noobs - it is their problem. Everything is written befoure me.
Everyone takes responsibility for their actions.
There were several noobs who were crying about ICS even if they do not know what to do. and they are happy now, despite the bugs.
I am not, but i made for those who are. I am not going to tell anyone to install it, i did only help, but i suggest nobody to install it.
It doesn't work and you know it. It's as if there was some paid software that people want, and you made a crack/patch for it, and then you say you don't advise using it. Do you really think people will stay away just because you advised so? No, they won't. In fact in that case your disclaimers make no difference whatsoever, you are equally at fault for making it available as they are for using it. Why do you think all anti-piracy companies always go after crack makers and distributors and not so much after users? I mean many crack makers also advise against using their cracks. But people are stupid and never listen, and in in the eyes of many crack makers are the original offenders.
Or if you want a different analogy - go find a mentally unstable person who can't really think straight (may seem offensive but noobs who want test builds on their phones clearly do not know what they're doing), then place a bottle of some drugs and a fresh needle within easy reach, and then tell them you advise not using it. Observe what happens.
IMO this kind of things are best dealt with preemptively, by not even making the potentially controversial stuff easily available.
you see, i've made first script of unlocking the boot a year ago. a lot of peole thanked me. they were happy - they unlocked once and than used other ways to change the firmware. They were noobs, but happy noobs. 18 000 downloads (i think some of them were same persons, for example me - while i was testing, or when i was unlocking for my friends), but only 4!!! broken phones. 2 of them caused by bad motherboard and 2 of them by ignoring the manual and all the warnings.
This one is more easy one. less questins. less work. just use it.
and if person already have unlocked boot there will be no problem with this FW
and i want to mention it again some users are happy enought with this fw. Some do not have reboots, some have but for them it is ok.
You should tell everyone that this is a very alpha rom. It does run without multiple reboots for most people per the forums. I personally have tried all methods and cannot get it to run.
I appreciate your efforts but this is not something that noobs will get any value from. You should be very clear upfront.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
agurzhiy said:
hello, i've made an Automated Atrix ThatRom Installer.
This script will help noobs to do everything without any troubles.
The file is a rar archive with all firmware files + installer.
With best regards
the_fly
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks agurzhiy!
I am a proud noob who used your unlock script and will use this one.
For all the pros which have a problem with this- you have the same approach as Motorola - "It's complicated you can't understand this". It's my choice what to do with my phone and agurzhiy providing us noobs with a possibility to participate in the effort to make it better.
The bottom line is instead of criticize why don't you spend this time and energy on creating and helping the community. Remember you were ones noobs too.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
e07015 said:
You should tell everyone that this is a very alpha rom. It does run without multiple reboots for most people per the forums. I personally have tried all methods and cannot get it to run.
I appreciate your efforts but this is not something that noobs will get any value from. You should be very clear upfront.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think everyone knows that it is alpha rom. nobody is going to install a script if if nobody knows what's inside. But i will add that it is alpha
ComX said:
For all the pros which have a problem with this- you have the same approach as Motorola - "It's complicated you can't understand this".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're missing my point entirely here. But that's okay. I don't want to argue anymore.
Is this just a fastboot script or an bootloader unlocker and ram fix etc etc
ravilov said:
You're missing my point entirely here. But that's okay. I don't want to argue anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not think that this is an argument. It is more like sharing different views on a subject.
I know what you mean, you want to prevent (or at least warn) noobs from taking the risk of bricking their phone and you are right 100%. But let me ask you how many of XDA readers are dumb enough to download some thing like this without reading at least a bit about it(*). Give ppl a little credit, most of us will stop on red light although it is possible to continue. Take me for example: I wanted to use nebtop but had a difficulty to understand how to root. Than mramirezusa came out with Automatic bootloader for noobs like me and boom - now I'm using the atrix as a streamer and without this tool I couldn't do this on my own. My point is that having a possibility to do stuff is highly appreciated.
* Ryan Dunn: If You Gonna be Dumb - You Gotta Be Tough.
this is a fastboot script to make it faster and easyer for a noob
UPDATE:
added the 32 bit version for x86 Windows
agurzhiy said:
UPDATE:
added the 32 bit version for x86 Windows
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, you've only been thanked here 7 times... Stop thinking so highly of yourself.
Unless you are going to stick around the forums helping these guys out when they have issues with your release, because they won't have anywhere else to go, and because other devs are busy with their own stuff, than you should probably refrain from posting anything that makes it easier to flash dangerous software.
Unless you're willing to help "guy xyz" (since quotes seem to be in) on "page 74" when he asks again, "why am i having video issues after flash", because your main post lacks important details and explanation and your web link is not multi-lingual, please refrain from posting content which could be perceived as harmful to use.
Any good software community recommends first releasing to a smaller test group in order to work out major bugs and minimize any potential impact the software may have on the device... And, any good service community would recommend first releasing to a smaller test group in order to create a base to compare full deployment scenarios against... In no cases would they make it easy to install buggy software on devices of users who can not adequately report issues during alpha stages of software.
Why is it so hard to understand how that applies here?
Zeljko1234 said:
IMO, you should stop spending so much time here on the forum arguing with people. Don't get me wrong but your posts are usually quite offensive (example what I saw today). You post almost in every thread, smartassing noobs, playing to be moderator... If you know something, share it, if post or thread is against the rules, report it.
Now you're arguing with guy who made first script of unlocking the bootloader and in the same time insinuate that many of xda members are just dump.
Forum, especially xda, is about sharing knowledge not giving useless advise/comment or to google it.
P.S.
Sorry everyone for off topic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We try not to feed him, Zeljko1234... Just let him be.
Your point is well deserved; but don't feed the trolls.
knigitz said:
Dude, you've only been thanked here 7 times... Stop thinking so highly of yourself.
Unless you are going to stick around the forums helping these guys out when they have issues with your release, because they won't have anywhere else to go, and because other devs are busy with their own stuff, than you should probably refrain from posting anything that makes it easier to flash dangerous software.
Unless you're willing to help "guy xyz" (since quotes seem to be in) on "page 74" when he asks again, "why am i having video issues after flash", because your main post lacks important details and explanation and your web link is not multi-lingual, please refrain from posting content which could be perceived as harmful to use.
Any good software community recommends first releasing to a smaller test group in order to work out major bugs and minimize any potential impact the software may have on the device... And, any good service community would recommend first releasing to a smaller test group in order to create a base to compare full deployment scenarios against... In no cases would they make it easy to install buggy software on devices of users who can not adequately report issues during alpha stages of software.
Why is it so hard to understand how that applies here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't you argue with epinter or any other person who put ThatRom?
Why are you arguing with me?
i made the thing easier, but i am not responsible for the uncomplete software. some people are lazy to use fastboot, but they know how to use it (i have flashed my phone 3 times while testing some of options to find out how it works)
other do not have enough knowledge to flash, but it's thair dream to have it, they are ready for the bugs and they alwas can ask me to help them to flash any other FW. And if they have unlocked boot - they can use CWM.
And the last group - the people who are just afraid to install after a lot of information about locking bootloaders. In russian community forums i've read 10 such questions from people who i know, from people who know how to use fastboot.
And if person do not want to install it - he may not install it!
I'm thankful to everyone who share knowledge. Even if I don't use everything, I usually download or read just to learn how. Without such guys, Internet itself will be mostly useless.
Do not blame anyone (especially epinter) for your mistake. He and many others guys spend a lot of their private time to figure how to do something, developing, supporting... and then sahre for free! As I can see, very rare they get donation. Almost never for the most loudest complainers which just wait that someone else will do something for them.
As I explained, as long as you are willing to stick around and help people with issues they encounter after flashing this, and provide more detailed instructions that people can read in your first post, it's not an issue.
Low thank count makes the more seasoned members cringe, as people release stuff that brick phones then disappear (it happens), leaving the community in a state of unrest trying to figure out the full impact of an unmaintained release, how many users were affected by the release, and a common way to fix the issues, and it leaves it up to other developers to explain to every xyz person to read this thread, read that thread, or flash this to fix.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2