Database Users

[Q] Pre-purchase questions about Archos 43

Hi,
I have a 10" Android tablet (a Viewsonic Gtab), but am thinking of getting a smaller tablet, for portability. I guess that, functionality-wise, I've been somewhat spoiled by the Gtablet, but the Archos 43 seems to come close, but with a smaller form factor.
So, I've been researching it.
I know that the screen is resistive and only 1 point touch, and that it has 256MB of RAM memory, and is available with either 8GB or 16GB, but had some questions:
- The Archos site says it comes with Froyo, but starting Nov 2010. I'm assuming that the current units are shipping with Froyo, but the Archos wiki site still lists 2.1, so I was wondering: What are the current (new) units shipping with? Is it Android 2.2? Or, are they still shipping with 2.1?
- On the Archosfan site, I've seen some threads about the size of the system part of the nonvolatile memory (/system ?), but it seems like there hasn't been any success in increasing that. Is that still the current case?
- What kind of debug-type, unbricking capability does it have? For example:
o Does it support ADB via the mini-USB port?
o Is there a recovery capability (e.g., power on + vol, to flash recovery)?
- I gather that it's possible to get Android market installed, but wanted to confirm that that's the case?
- Some general questions: How are the display (both viewing and touch responsiveness) and internal speakers, and is the Archos 43 reasonably fast (I know that that last one is a relative question)?
Sorry for all of the questions!
Thanks in advance,
Jim

jimcpl said:
I know that the screen is resistive
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try it out before you buy -- you might hate it.
The Archos site says it comes with Froyo, but starting Nov 2010. I'm assuming that the current units are shipping with Froyo, but the Archos wiki site still lists 2.1, so I was wondering: What are the current (new) units shipping with? Is it Android 2.2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They ship with 2.1, but will update to a highly-hacked version of 2.2 when you connect them to the Internet. Careful -- the custom 2.2 build uses an older kernel (2.6.29), and it seems that the JIT is disabled.
o Does it support ADB via the mini-USB port?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
o Is there a recovery capability (e.g., power on + vol, to flash recovery)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
I gather that it's possible to get Android market installed, but wanted to confirm that that's the case?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
Some general questions: How are the display (both viewing and touch responsiveness)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For viewing, the display is pretty nice. The touchscreen is pretty horrible -- I find it's unusable with fingers, you need a so-called "stylus" (a match or the cap of a ball-point pen will do fine).
A few other caveats, which might or might not be relevant to you:
there's no GPS, which is a real shame for a device with such a nice, large screen;
the camera is pretty poor, it's really only useful as a webcam;
the MPEG-1/2 and AC3 codecs cost extra, and while it is possible to install a free software player, that won't allow you to play HD content;
there's no IPv6 support in the official kernel.
In short, I'm finding it's quite nice as a media player, but certainly not as a general-purpose Android device.
--jch

jch,
Thanks for the info.
Re. the Froyo and the older kernel: What is the impact of that? Does that mean that some (all? a lot?) of apps from market won't run on the 43?
Re. the screen. I have some older PPC/Windows Mobile PDAs (IPAQ 100, Dell Axim, etc.). How the touch sensitivity on the 43 compares to those?
I don't need IPV6 or GPS...
Thanks again,
Jim

Jim,
Have you considered a phone like the Droid X or the Evo? Screen size is nearly the same, but then you would always have it with you and you would probably be happier with it as a portable device.
BTW...once you go capacitive, resistive screens seem like ass ancient technology that you kinda hate. Its like sleeping in silk pajamas and then changing into polyester ones.

ExploreMN said:
Jim,
Have you considered a phone like the Droid X or the Evo? Screen size is nearly the same, but then you would always have it with you and you would probably be happier with it as a portable device.
BTW...once you go capacitive, resistive screens seem like ass ancient technology that you kinda hate. Its like sleeping in silk pajamas and then changing into polyester ones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Explore,
I mentioned that I have a G tablet, and that has a capacitive screen. I'm just looking for something smaller, kind of to use as an Android pda, not a phone, and esp. No monthly plan.
I've actually also been thinking of getting an LG Optimus V from Virginmobile, which is also Froyo, but Flash apparently is no-go on that because it uses an ARMV6 cpu.
Jim

jimcpl said:
Hi,I know that the screen is resistive
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You must try before you buy!!! I didn't know this when I bought my a43 and let me tell you, typing on this device is near impossible. In fact I find the resistive screen so bad I no longer bring my a43 to work with me and I have reverted to my iPod Touch since I can easily and quickly thumb type on it.
The a43 has been relegated to my desk at home strictly as a "learning about Android" device. I have paired it with an Apple BT keyboard and that makes it usable but not portable.

Hmmm - I kind of like my A43 IT. I find the resistive touch screen pretty good. It compares well with my now ancient Palm T|X and is almost as good as the capacitive multi-touch on my A101 IT.
After close to 20 years using a Palm, I am very used to small resistive touch screens. I am most comfortable with a stylus in my hand. I have fairly large hands and fingers, so it amazes me when I'm fingering my A43 and it gets it right most of the time. I actually have a sense that it knows what I'm thinking to get it so right. Again, 20 years of using Palm gestures with a stylus, as well as their tiny on-screen keyboard. I bought SwiftKey for both my A43 and A101. It's very intuitive (if software could be intuitive ). The few minutes I played with an iPad were no better to me.
Bye.

CrunchyDoodle said:
Hmmm - I kind of like my A43 IT. I find the resistive touch screen pretty good. It compares well with my now ancient Palm T|X and is almost as good as the capacitive multi-touch on my A101 IT.
After close to 20 years using a Palm, I am very used to small resistive touch screens. I am most comfortable with a stylus in my hand. I have fairly large hands and fingers, so it amazes me when I'm fingering my A43 and it gets it right most of the time. I actually have a sense that it knows what I'm thinking to get it so right. Again, 20 years of using Palm gestures with a stylus, as well as their tiny on-screen keyboard. I bought SwiftKey for both my A43 and A101. It's very intuitive (if software could be intuitive ). The few minutes I played with an iPad were no better to me.
Bye.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Crunchy,
I have a couple of TC1100's, so for this use, I'd not prefer having to use a stylus, I just realized though, that I also have a Fuj U820, which also has a 5" resistive touchscreen. The 43 would be a bit smaller screen, but seems like it'd be comparable, but w Froyo instead of Windows 7, so I'm kind of leaning to trying the 43.
Thanks for all the feedback, everybody!
Jim

jimcpl said:
Explore,
I mentioned that I have a G tablet, and that has a capacitive screen. I'm just looking for something smaller, kind of to use as an Android pda, not a phone, and esp. No monthly plan.
I've actually also been thinking of getting an LG Optimus V from Virginmobile, which is also Froyo, but Flash apparently is no-go on that because it uses an ARMV6 cpu.
Jim
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I decided to go ahead and order a 16GB a43 from Amazon yesterday. Should be here tomorrow, or so I hope.
I'll let you know how it is... the a32's resistive screen is VERY responsive,probably one of the best that I've used, or at least as good as the old PDAs and MUCH better than either the WPDN or Augen GT78...
Heh. Didn't notice that about the kernel... although a larger disappointment to me was only 256MB of RAM... and the uSD lack of the a32 but I knew about that ahead of time, still odd for something that is more useful as a PMP than a general purpose device. (The 3.2" screen @ 400x240 is just too tiny to really use for web browsing or reading except in a pinch. Also would've preferred a uSD slot over the crap camera(640x480) might be useful for barcode scanning, works for QR codes...)
One additional comment, I've take to using a stylus with the a32 as some programs(and keyboard) are really kind of small and the stylus makes it less painful to select various things... fingernail gets by most of the time, but I've come to prefer a stylus for pro-longed use so I'll try to keep that in mind when I get the a43... probably won't have much meaningful to say until Friday though... unless it's really awful...
[EDIT]
Seriously?! You're running stock fw on the gtab?! Has it gotten good enough to use? (Which is the main reason that I started exploring custom fws in November...)
Which reminds me of another comment about something that I already know for certain from using the Nook Color & a32: do NOT expect a cortex-a8 tablet to be as fast and smooth as a tegra 2 tablet. They just aren't.
Also forgot to mention that it seems that Archos added a swapfile w/the froyo upgrade so a little more internal storage is lost to it. Not sure if it makes any difference as I upgraded the a32 as soon as it had fully charged which took me straight to the latest fw which is what I'm using on it. (Seemed kind of pointless to bother with anything else on it since I'm only using it for music playing and occasional video... played some over uPnP from my linux box the other day(mediatomb) which went well...)
[/EDIT]
[EDIT2]
...so I decided to pull out the a32 and check some things with the Android System Info app, and found this hilarity: (this is stock 2.1.8 fw)
Android ID: dead00beef
and yep,
o.s. version: 2.6.29-omap1
[/EDIT2]

Cutterjohn,
Yep. Still on stock w Gtab... not even w the enhancement pack. Maybe I'm not as discriminating as others, but it's been fine for me, and I use it a LOT.
Besides the screen on the A43, the things I'm hesitating about are the 256Mb /system, whuch seems kind of restrictive, and what the downside if the older kernel is.
Thanks for the comments, and post when you get yours!
Jim

jimcpl said:
Cutterjohn,
Yep. Still on stock w Gtab... not even w the enhancement pack. Maybe I'm not as discriminating as others, but it's been fine for me, and I use it a LOT.
Besides the screen on the A43, the things I'm hesitating about are the 256Mb /system, whuch seems kind of restrictive, and what the downside if the older kernel is.
Thanks for the comments, and post when you get yours!
Jim
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will do. UPS finally got updated and they say that it's supposed to be delivered by end of day today...
One more comment that I can make wrt a32(hoping a43 will be similar as well) WiFi: the a32 seems to have about as good range as the gtab and NC which is pretty good for such a device. I'm just mentioning this because @ archosfans I'd read threads about poor WiFi. Maybe I just got lucky.
1st a32 was DOA BTW(probably deeply discharged batt), looked like a return unit as it wasn't sealed, a32 was out of it's shipping sleeve(missing) as were the USB & headphones also missing twist ties and packaging. So I exchanged it for a clearly new one. (I'm just mentioning this since I got mine from Sears and I remember someone mentioning that their gtab from Sears appeared to be a return unit... ) Actually I'm kind of surprised that Sears is still in business as most times that I stop by to look for something, e.g. USB card reader, it's nope we don't have any of those... Seems like they have next to no stock of anything, and alot of empty space in the elctronics section of the one that I went to...
[EDIT=c. 2p EDT]
OK it arrived not too long ago, but had to let it sit and warm up close to room temp before I wanted to start charging, which it's doing now. Just did the basic setup so far and started downloading 2.1.08, it came with 2.0.71 loaded on in(A32IT came with original Android 2.1)... will try to get in some usage time this afternoon/night. (Charging should go fairly quickly since I'm using the NC charger w/Archos cable 1A charger... used it last night on the A32IT and it charged it faster than by USB port on notebook and it seems OK...)
First evaluation: touch screen seems OK, but again I haven't done much besides the setup and look in the "about device" in settings...
...and yes this one apparently unlike the A32IT, actually did have a small plastic protector over the camera lens... I could just barely make out the tab to pull it off when held at a certain angle... double checked the A32IT again and it didn't have one... Screen protector is difficult to make out as well as the pull tab was pushed down and flush w/edge of case... best to remove it as it's only for shipping protection...
[/EDIT]

cutterjohn,
So how is it working so far? How bad/good is the touch vs. the Gtab? Also have you installed market, and tried apps from there?
Jim

jimcpl said:
cutterjohn,
So how is it working so far? How bad/good is the touch vs. the Gtab? Also have you installed market, and tried apps from there?
Jim
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was just going to post my preliminary impressions this morning. (I see that stock gTab got a nice update... now if they'd only go for honeycomb...)
Anyways, back to Archos:
I used the A43IT primarily as an ereader(FBReaderJ) on Wednesday afternoon along with trying the camera(haven't gotten around to xferring the files to nb yet to check), added a bunch of apps from appslib and sideload(mostly DolphinHD & AndFTP for sftp). Otherwise I've got everything still bog OOB 2.1.08 stock fw.
OK, Wed. set it to "powersave" in Power management(under About device) as my battery level by meter seemed to be dropping pretty quickly. I didn't see where this made much of a difference though, presumably it limits the max CPU clock to something less than 800MHz(probably 600MHz) which was fine for me since I was reading which isn't exactly CPU intensive. Also had the brightness set to min in Settings->Display->Brightness, WiFi & bluetooth OFF, and killed most running apps with "System Monitor". (FBReader looked good, or as good as it ever does while I was never able to set it to my liking on the A32IT.)
I had about 70% battery left Thursday morning(probably ran 2.5-3.5h Wed mostly with WiFi, etc. off reading.) Used it in the morning browsing the web for about 2h, same low backlight setting, and was at c. 50% charge -> recharged via USB to computer cable attached to nb, took about 2.5h(!). (Optimal power setting.) I had a single hard freeze in DolphinHD, as in it wasn't responding to screen presses, power button, etc. Long pressed power button to shut it down, and restarted it. (It has been fine since.) I set the font size setting from "normal" to "large" as some non-mobile sites the font still was a little small to me, if there was a bold setting I probably could have gone with normal + bold, but... Browsing is MUCH nicer on the A43IT v. A32IT but NOT as nice as gTab.
Used it again as a reader later that afternoon/evening, but left the power setting at Optimal, and started using Aldiko(render italicized text, etc. while FBReader doesn't plus the font looks better).
Compared Aldiko on A32IT v. A43IT, and I can actually get Aldiko to display decently on the A32IT, but it's still a bit small to hold(to me). I also noticed that the touch screen is MUCH better on the A32IT v. A43IT.
A43IT touchscreen so far to me is a bit better than either the Augen GT48 or Pandigital Novel(white), but obviously not as nice to use with fingers as a capacitive screen device, e.g. gTab. Working best for me by using fingernail or stylus(especially scrolling web pages). In reader apps finger presses are fine. There might be a bit of residue from the shipped screen protector as immediately after removing it, the screen felt rough to the finger/nail in some spots and still does after a few cleanings. (The A32IT initially did as well, but now after more than a week feels smooth.)
Build quality: A43IT just doesn't "feel" (or look) as sturdy to me as the A32IT. There is a small but obvious gap where the two halves of the case meet, especially on the side with the uSD & mini-HDMI port. Volume keys are loose, but they are on the A32IT as well, which doesn't really bother me. The power button is a bit small ovoid shape and IS more difficult to operate than the more exposed rectangular buttons on the A32IT & gTab, but not a big problem IMO.
Screen: hmmm... probably a bit better than the gTab as far as viewing angles go, but not as "bright". It looks a bit washed out to me v. gTab or A32IT. I still haven't played video on it yet(or even games) so I'll have to check on that later. (None are as nice as the IPS screen on the Nook Color.)
uSD slot: PITA period. Exposed finger side is UP as you look at the screen and it's a PITA to pop a card out. They left no finger depression, so unless you've got some nails you're going to need something to push the card in and then hope that it pops out enough to grab...
uUSB: I wish that they'd've got miniUSB as these uUSB ports do NOT feel very robust on the A43IT, A32IT, or Nook Color.
Sunny/bright LCD display: A32IT washes out, but it's been overcast here since I received the A43IT and I haven't been anywhere with it that's been extraordinarily bright... ?
hw Buttons: Just power & vol rocker. Home, Menu, Back, and Search are displayed as part of the screen and I'm guessing that they've modified the OS such that they ALWAYs appear at bottom portrait orientation, or right landscape which would explain the odd resolution of 480x854 v. 480x800. The 54 pixels are probably permanently reserved for those button rather than having touch screen(non-display part)/hw buttons like on the gTab or A32IT. These buttons work OK, just a matter of calibrating which I recommend using a stylus to do. (learned this from the A32 as finger calibrating led to Vol +/- hits sometimes v. home, menu, etc. (A32 has physical vol keys PLUS resitive touch +/- vol keys.)).
Games: as mentioned, dunno yet. I haven't tried any and the ones that I'd like to (emulators) would really work better with a bluetooth controller(e.g. wiimote) which I don't have. (I haven't really played any on the gTab either though...)
Physical Overall Size: Still a bit smaller than I'd like, and I'd've preferred a 4:3 screen for it, as it does look really narrow when held in portrait mode, i.e. when used as a reader. It's quite a bit thicker than the A32, and a little thinner than the gTab. (Probably and inch shorter than a paperback and maybe .75" less wide at a guess...)
Weight: MUCH lighter than the gTab, and noticeably heavier than the A32. Probably about the same weight as 2-3 paperback books.
TV Out: dunno. I haven't gottent around to buying/ordering any HDMI cables yet as I really haven't had a need for them... and/or a desire to hook anything up to the TV until now. (Emulators would probably be more fun played on the TV...) I haven't tried the A32 TV out either as I don't have the composite cable and haven't ordered one for it either, and also don't have the dock for the gTab so along with no cables, no HDMI out for it.
Android: pretty well stock Android. As to v. TapnTap dunno, but since I'll be wanting to go to TnT lite 5.0.0 soon, I'll probably be loading TapnTap 3991 today and might try using it for a bit as it's apparently a MAJOR update(2400 quadrant, 40+ fps Nenamark) so the A43IT isn't likely to get much use today unless I decide to try video later tonight.
USB hostmode: No cable for the A32 or A43 and just never bothered on the gTab since it has uSD slot. I'll eventually want a host cable though at least for the A32 since that's the ONLY means of expanding storage via host cable to flahs or other kind of drive... again probably not likely to ever update this here soon as this is yet another cable I haven't ordered/don't have.
bluetooth: actually haven't tested this on any of my tablets yet. I'll try to connect them to my nb over the next few days, but it should just work and beyond that will be do the various tablets have the necessary drivers to support whatever devices...
WiFi: range seems to be a fraction worse than either the A32, Nook Color, or gTab, but better than the Pandigital Novel(white). I'm able to get a 1-2 bar connection outside at what I guess to be about 50' from the router(DLink DIR-615 rev B2, G mode, WEP (have legacy devices that only do B and WEP that I use)) plus misc. (7-8) other neighboring routers that I can see go up and down at various times.
builtin speakers: They're there. They work. They're not as nice as the ones on the gTab or they don't sound as good to me, but thats fine since you can always use headphones(3.5mm jack or bluetooth) if you'd like better. I'd wish that they'd've squeezed in at least one speaker for the A32... (of course I'd've like uSD as well...)
Market: I haven't done that yet, not sure if I will since sleep works rather well right now on both my A32IT & A43IT w/o Google apps installed, which tends to break sleep on some of the other tablets that I have, e.g. I ALWAYS shutdown my gTab v. sleeping it, and do the same with the Pandigital Novel(white)... I have sideloaded some apps that I've downloaded on the gTab from the market to it and it worked, so mostly everything not requiring GPS/phone service should work. That said I have no idea how much of the market they can see as you know every market fix that I've seen so far, some apps show up on one, but not on others AND even then there are apps that just never show up... (tied to various carriers or something I think... not really sure how the market identifies which apps to display for which device...) The market install is supposed to be easy, so I might get around to trying it eventually, but I was really think of leaving it stock and just pulling apps from elsewhere, i.e. gTab -> Titanium backup -> dropbox(or nb, etc.) -> A32/A43
So that's where I'm at. It's decent. Not as snappy as the gTab, but I already knew that this was going to be the case though. The touchscreen is not nearly as nice as the A32IT's, but better than some others. I'm still not sure about the touchscreen and will have to use it some more before deciding on that.
My verdict at this point is not bad. Trifle small yet, and touch screen is not a responsive as I had hoped yet not completely awful. It's the only thing in the just about the right size category for tablets, so not much choice...
[EDIT]
Couple of adds:
offtopic: I see now that the gtab stock 3991 fw isn't OTAing everywhere, roebeet just discovered by checking their ftp site...
benchmarking: no quadrant on the A43IT yet, but my a32IT was getting around 1350(read others get 1300-1600 about 1400 or so average) or so, so I'd expect the A43IT with the overdrive power management option to be a bit higher, but certainly not the 2400+ that we get on the gtab. (I believe that the overdrive option keeps the CPU @ 1GHz, so it should make up for having to push more pixels around on the A43IT's larger display...)
[/EDIT]

Yep, wonder of wonders it unexpectedly got to be actually sunny yesterday afternoon, so I ran out to check the display. Lowest setting is entirely readable, whilst max brightness is barely legible as was to be expected...
Back to touch screen, when I say "difficulties" in browsing what I really meant was how with EVERY resistive touch screen Android device that I've used when attempting to scroll a web page it's either sluggish, "bounces back"(difficult to describe, like when you want to do a small or delicate move and the screen adjusts but removing your finger it jumps back to about where it had been), or wildly scrolls(these are the worst since it is more readily controllable with capacitive screens, but with resistive it seems to be a bit slower to register touches which makes stopping this more difficult).
But as I mentioned in other applications, touching for turn pages or swiping it seems to work better than many, and I've had no problems using the default keyboard. On the A32IT it was more of a matter of size than anything else, i.e. portrait mode the keyboard is nearly useless w/o a fingernail or stylus, and landscape is big enough that if your careful fingers will do but sylus still gives best performance.

Cutterjohn,
Thanks for the great info! Much more than I would've ever expected .
My situation is that I'm still "on the fence". In the past I've "collected" a few tablets, and I guess I'm a bit of a packrat... never got rid of any of them, but I'm trying be more discriminating nowadays, lest my wife starts trying to get me to dump some of them.
The A43 sounds pretty good, and you've covered a lot, which I greatly appreciate. I think I'm a little comfortable w the screen situation, but I'm concerned about the "longevity", esp. the small /system partition, which apparently hasn't been cracked.
I'll keep watching, and maybe if I can find a deal, may just try it if it's too tempting .
Thanks again!
Jim

jimcpl said:
Cutterjohn,
Thanks for the great info! Much more than I would've ever expected .
My situation is that I'm still "on the fence". In the past I've "collected" a few tablets, and I guess I'm a bit of a packrat... never got rid of any of them, but I'm trying be more discriminating nowadays, lest my wife starts trying to get me to dump some of them.
The A43 sounds pretty good, and you've covered a lot, which I greatly appreciate. I think I'm a little comfortable w the screen situation, but I'm concerned about the "longevity", esp. the small /system partition, which apparently hasn't been cracked.
I'll keep watching, and maybe if I can find a deal, may just try it if it's too tempting .
Thanks again!
Jim
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
np. I'm hoping that the screen is just a matter of getting used to using a resistive screen with a finger.
I've got an old pocketpc case which is fits into. It's perfect heightwise, but the A43 is MUCH thinner and narrower than the old pocketpcs were, but it also has a little pocket which I stick a stylus into and enough extra space to put some earbuds in with it as well and not damage the screen... so I'll always have the stylus around with it.
As a side note about the screen a user in a thread on archosfans suggested people download an app called DrawNoteK(simple drawing app), which I did and it seemed to track my finger pretty well and the stylus/fingernail better of course. I'm pretty much of the opinion that resistive screen problems are just a matter of them reading more contact area(multiple locations) when using a finger v. a fingernail/stylus which has a much smaller point of contact. After all all of the old PDAs used to come default with a stylus...
app storage: yep, still stuck at I guess where they had it originally. I think that it MIGHT be possible to manually change it but I haven't looked into it too much. I've hardly use any app storage space on any of my tablets so far. [EDIT2] Another problem with increasing storage in stock fw is that devices like my A32IT and the A28IT have no other memory expansion options, other than USB host. My A32IT IIRC w/stock fw 2.1.08 had a little over 6GB available for media, and I've already used half of that or more... Iwouldn't mind giving up another 300MB for apps, but not the 2GB that many people wanted who had 43, 70, or 101s. [/EDIT2]
longevity: well, Archos'll probably have their gen9 this fall with a cortex-a9 and maybe more memory. (So I'm kind of on the fence about keeping the A43, but I still have a few weeks to return it to Amazon... just want try it some more and see if any of my quibbles end up as deal killers with lengthier usage... I'm just still not entirely sure about the touch screen.)
[EDIT]
...and I played some video streamed from my notebook last night uPnP(mediatomb) which worked OK and looked pretty good on the A43IT's display. The kickstand seems to be kind of a useless "feature" on this though, and feels pretty flimsy(semi-rigid plastic). Likely the stand will be one of the first things to get broken accidentally, but I'll probably never use it again...
[/EDIT]
[EDIT3]
Forgot to mention this above, and I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but Archos have an additional fw available which is a version of the Angstrom linux distro... voids the warranty though, so I won't be trying it unless I decide to keep it in the end, and then I'll wait a year for the warranty to expire...
[/EDIT3]

minor update:
I've started to get some FCs with various apps, nothing horrible/continuous like I got with early versions of stock gtab fw, but worrisome.
Got one yesterday after running the camera app, and had one the day before but I didn't really pay attention to what it was as it didn't re-appear but since getting one from the camera app will be paying more attention. I suppose that it could possibly be a low memory condition sine Archos chose a subpar 256MB RAM spec... and yes I usually use system monitor to kill just about everything periodically... Limited memory is just another reason to NOT install Google apps & market as many of those seem to want to be permanently in RAM...
I suppose that I need to look into this some more, and additionally use the A32 more often to see if it starts occuring there as well, since they're basically the same hw... also need to do some research as I quite like the A43 form factor(little wider would've been nice) and there's nothing comparable ATM... (nor will there be apparently, as I have no doubt that Samsung will continue their egregious pricing practices with their player... you'd think that they had Apple, Motorola, or Sony quality & support levels with their pricing!)
gTab stock 3588 fw wasn't too bad, MUCH snappier and stable than the earlier ones... installed this on my way to TnT lite 5.0.0...

Hi,
I've been reading the stuff about the Samsung Player also. The 5" is the one I'd be interested, but I want to see how locked down it is/will be.
Jim

jimcpl said:
Hi,
I've been reading the stuff about the Samsung Player also. The 5" is the one I'd be interested, but I want to see how locked down it is/will be.
Jim
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
glad that you have excessive amounts of cash to spend on low quality korean junk... (face it, they're not worth their asking price, if they halved it maybe...)
anyways Archos is now being frog junk, incapable of connecting via ssh/scp/sftp w/o FCing likely the dimwitted decision to go with a "whopping" 256MB of RAM... an excessively moronically low amount of RAM given how relatively "cheap" it is nowadays, but go figure out frogs...
buh-bye archos junk... (sad but these POS are going out with the trash like they are...)
F--- for frog crap Archos
[EDIT]
OK, at least for the A32 a reboot -> I now can xfer stuff again momentarily, but my gods what a POS hack job on android with such monumental memory leaks that cause it to fail after running for a while... what sort of monumental midget intellects decided to try to phail hack Android?! i.e. Archos Android == memory leaking POS...
@Jim better off spending $400 on another good gTab rather than an overpriced toy regardless of form factor... hell, even the Nook Color does better for almost half the price although it's 7"... just wonder when B&N are going to get off the pot and cough up their updates sine ATM they've seemed to've managed to pissoff all their attracted devs for apps for their mythical appstore... (they missed ALL update targets for Q1 2011 so far and only a couple of weeks left to make up for it... but maybe they can now publish a book about how NOT to start an app store for everyone else...)
[/EDIT]

I didn't realize, until doing further searching, how much the Samsung Player was estimated to be priced . They haven't announced pricing yet, but it sounds like th $400 range (shock!).
More waiting ...
Jim
P.S. Sorry about you problem w A43, but thx for posting that info.

Battery & Display suck; why the love?

Hi guys. I just bought the Acer Iconia and wanted to give a few of my initial thoughts.
First thing I noticed after performing all the updates was the lag. After exiting applications, it takes a little while for the icons to re-appear on the homescreen. I haven't added any besides the default. Also, when scrolling with the browser, it tends to render in square blocks.
Battery life..I've read reviews that it goes up to 8 hours while others say it lasts between 4-5 hours, and others say 6 hours. I understand that what we do varies, and the battery needs to be calibrated. After having it on for 3 hours and playing FieldRunners for 45 min (the rest of the time it was idle with all wireless connections off), I'm at 75% remaining. That's pretty crummy. Not even a calibration will improve it THAT much.
Also, when viewing a white background, you can see every "box" or pixel. Goodness, that's pretty frickin' bad. I'm not expecting any ridiculous "retina display" here but this is just a cheap panel.
I went into Staples to compare it to the Galaxy Tab and Xoom, and I see why Iconia is priced $100 less.
So, serious question. Why all the love for this thing?
Thanks!

Obvious troll is obvious
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk

With 14 posts, maybe you shouldn't comment. And I can't imagine a troll would actually take the time to write up a full post. What a waste of time that'd be.
I genuinely want to know. Perhaps there's something I'm missing. I want to love it because for $299 (after the Staples $100 off tablets coupon) it might not be a bad deal even with my complaints. But for those who actually spent the full $400, what do you actually like about it?

If you wanna go to staples n pay $300 (not $100!) For extra bulk and a non functioning micro SD, or for a device that doesnt even have a micro sd, USB, or HDMI, go for it. If you feel like a thin piece of plastic is a better investment than stainless steel, that's your money. But don't polute our forums with a "grass is greener" thread. You dont like the Iconia cuz it has the same battery as every other device (the only difference is some companies lie more in their specs- I've tested them all, they are all about the same) or cuz you can see pixels on a white screen, go somewhere else.

It's $100 OFF, making it $299 as I posted above. Read the post and learn to write full words in english. Good lord, tough to get a real answer out of babies.
Don't be too hurt if people knock the device. I'm allowed to call it like I see it, and the reason I posted is so someone can point out the actual good parts of the device (besides USB port).
Does anyone else see the issues I was referring to in my original post?

allen099 said:
It's $100 OFF, making it $299 as I posted above. Read the post and learn to write full words in english. Good lord, tough to get a real answer out of babies.
Don't be too hurt people knock the device. I'm allowed to call it like I see it, and the reason I posted is so someone can point out the actual good parts of the device (besides USB port).
Does anyone else see the issues I was referring to in my original post?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I cant find your first post. You posted 224 messages. I klap my hands.

Don't diss the Odom, you can't make any friends that way.
For me it was the ports it offered. If the galaxy offered a micro SD I probabally would have bought it. The Acer on the other hand offers a lot of ports, which I found very fun. On the Xoom issue the Acer actually out performs it on display as thy have the same one but Acer codes it better. That has been proven in tests.
To break it down it was the price and the ports. The graphics are fine, watched The Green Hornet on this last night and I was satisfied with the performance. But to tell the truth I'm not a graphics whore.
I looked and played with all of these devices and I stick with my decision to buy the Acer.
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App

I obviously misinterpreted a conversation stater by the looks of it!
I beg pardon and stand aside.
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk

Torisen said:
Don't diss the Odom, you can't make any friends that way.
For me it was the ports it offered. If the galaxy offered a micro SD I probabally would have bought it. The Acer on the other hand offers a lot of ports, which I found very fun. On the Xoom issue the Acer actually out performs it on display as thy have the same one but Acer codes it better. That has been proven in tests.
To break it down it was the price and the ports. The graphics are fine, watched The Green Hornet on this last night and I was satisfied with the performance. But to tell the truth I'm not a graphics whore.
I looked and played with all of these devices and I stick with my decision to buy the Acer.
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My slight trolling aside, I agree with Torisen. The screen is better than most devices, albeit topped by the Galaxy. I find the extra ports and functionality a major deal breaker for me, as well as the price difference vs what you get with the galaxy (to me the xoom was never even a question, there is a reason google views it as a flop.) Also, I'm personally a fan of.the stainless chassis, both in appearance and functionality. As for the lag, a real world test of the galaxy provided similar results due to the bloated Samsung ui. Another key advantage is the near stock system, free of bloatware. After weighing all of my options, I am very happy with my iconia true, their whole update process was screwy, but they seemed to have cleared it up a little (for instance at least most everyone got the 4.010.13 update at the same time!) In yhe end, if youre not happy with it, it is a ffree market, get a different one.

strider_mt2k said:
Obvious troll is obvious
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but I tend to agree at least a little with Strider_mt2k because I don't understand posts like this. If I did not like a $300 device that I purchased, I wouldn't criticized it on the dedicated forum for that device, and then expect strangers to convince me to keep it.
My "love" for this tablet is definitely not going to do anything towards negating your disdain for it. Technology life is too short to keep a device that so obviously disappoints you. Return it and get a tablet that you want.

internetpilot said:
Sorry, but I tend to agree at least a little with Strider_mt2k because I don't understand posts like this. If I did not like a $300 device that I purchased, I wouldn't criticized it on the dedicated forum for that device, and then expect strangers to convince me to keep it.
My "love" for this tablet is definitely not going to do anything towards negating your disdain for it. Technology life is too short to keep a device that so obviously disappoints you. Return it and get a tablet that you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I agree. It did come across as an insult to the device, not any form of question. Don't like it? Complain to staples or wherever you bought it and get a different device

The battery stand 8 hours if
- you do not use 3D Games constantly
- Brigthness arround 50%
I use about 12 hours straight my tablet, wifi constantly open, reading ebook, playing games (a little), going internet....
but I charge my tablet every 1.5 day or 2 days sometimes... no I do not use my tablet every 2 minutes
so far with GPS, full brightness, Sygic navigator... about 5hrs++ wich is nice... since I do not drive that long, and I don't need the navigator 5 hours in a row.
playing games 3D . 6hrs ++
playing normal games (angry bird) 8hrs...
Charge the tablet until 100% do not overnight, let the battery drain until 5% oftenly. that's how I use my tablet.
I do not use OVERCLOCK or else. when I make those feedback

Go get an iPad 2 then and stop whining. Oh wait... the display still sucks on an iPad. At least you get a great range of connectivity with the Iconia.

i work at staples, i have had the time to play with all the tablets, i personally recommend the Acer over all of them, even to my customers
the 100 dollar coupons kill our stores sale figures, but i used one and bought the Acer.
i do not regret it one bit, i love my acer. you shouldnt have your face that close to the screen to see the pixels, if you do need to, you need to get glasses

allen099 said:
First thing I noticed after performing all the updates was the lag. After exiting applications, it takes a little while for the icons to re-appear on the homescreen. I haven't added any besides the default. Also, when scrolling with the browser, it tends to render in square blocks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have such issues, maybe you've got a defect one?
Battery life..I've read reviews that it goes up to 8 hours while others say it lasts between 4-5 hours, and others say 6 hours. I understand that what we do varies, and the battery needs to be calibrated. After having it on for 3 hours and playing FieldRunners for 45 min (the rest of the time it was idle with all wireless connections off), I'm at 75% remaining. That's pretty crummy. Not even a calibration will improve it THAT much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, how much do you really expect it to last when playing games? If you're claiming it's "crummy" then obviously you think some other tablet does a lot better, but.. well, so far I ain't seeing one. They all last more-or-less the same.
Besides... I don't play games on my tablet, but it's on for 3rd day in the row at the moment. I have WIFI on 24/7, I do some web browsing, reading comics etc. and it still has over 50% battery left. That ain't something I personally would call "crummy."
Also, when viewing a white background, you can see every "box" or pixel. Goodness, that's pretty frickin' bad. I'm not expecting any ridiculous "retina display" here but this is just a cheap panel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those aren't pixels! You're seeing the grid used for touch-input. You're mixing the two concepts!
As for the grid: yes, it is sometimes visible. I personally don't get bothered by it since it isn't as clearly visible as you make it out to be. But I can understand if some others are bothered by it. It is even mentioned in all the better reviews that the grid can be seen easier than on other tablets. If the grid bothers you that much then go and get another tablet. But bear in mind that even iPads have the grid and atleast I can see it on those, too.
So, serious question. Why all the love for this thing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because it is great hardware for a great price.

I've had mine for 48 hours, and I have to say I'm loving it. I did take into consideration the $100 off, and getting this device for $299. You can argue positives and negatives on devices of equal price, but for $299, the A500 is a bargain.
The two issues mentioned- display: yes, the transformer's display is brighter. BUT...I've read many, many posts over at the ASUS threads about light bleading. Further, about how the Transformer can "bend" a little due to plastic construction, and this in turn causes further problems. Still, I liked the TF...I was torn over between the two, so don't think I'm hating on ASUS here. But the display is about a 7.5-8/10 for me compared to the BEST displays I've seen. But its a 10/10 for $299.
Battery: I have only good things to say about battery life so far on mine. No, I don't play 3D games constantly, but compared to the many android phones I have had, I realize I'm not always thinking about having this plugged in just in case I'll need the battery power later.
The other points that were in the A500's favor were the aluminum as stated, full USB port (not a feature you should discount), mini usb port, etc. I can't imagine ONLY being able to transfer files via miniSD. That would be a pain.
Most of the other gripes I have are about Honeycomb...it's not up to competing directly yet with iPad, just a few bugs that keep it from going head to head right now. But that has nothing to do with the unit.
I got two A500's now by the way, and both seem to be working as advertised, they were better than I expected when I made the decision to buy them.

+ 1 for all the love here for our devices on such a hateful thread

The Odom Project said:
+ 1 for all the love here for our devices on such a hateful thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love your haircut
Is that enough love? ^^

WereCatf said:
I love your haircut
Is that enough love? ^^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe yeah lol.now I just need to re pierce my lips lol. . . Damn here we go again with the OT lol

I love this baby... and I'm not new to my portable devices... with auto brightness and auto use i get all day battery... and that includes using it's USB port to charge my Moto Atrix when it needs it! I must admit tho mine was a bit laggy with te stock kernel, but that was an easy fix!

Ben Williams' Note 8.0 experience thread

I thought I'd start a thread to talk about my research in to this tablet and the conclusions and decisions i have taken in choosing it, setting it up and the mods i choose to incorporate or leave out. Dont know if it will help other people in choosing to buy one of these or not or if it will help others into expanding the capabilities of their stock unit, but I appreciate the feedback I've been getting on the individual threads I've been looking at.
Why I chose the Note 8.0
Since tablets first started becoming mass market items, I always had a problem with the 10 inch format that is most popular. I myself own a 10 inch tablet (an ASUS Transformer) and while I enjoy using it at home, I find it too bulky to take out with me yet too small to replace my laptop for any serious tasks. Having played with many tablets in stores over the years I soon decided that the 8-9inch form factor was one that was most ideal. 7inches was too small and too close to a mobile phone for my liking. Going up 1 inch adds about 25% more screen real estate and this is significant for me. Saying that, I never found a tablet in that size range that was up to standard in terms of tech spec. They always seems over priced, underpowered or were missing an important feature for my liking. The original note phone came out. I loved the idea and benefit that the spen brought to the table but thought it was too small to be useful for any serious input.
On an average day I will carry a camera, my phone, a note pad, my 10 inch tablet and sometimes a sketchbook as well. While I feel the 8.0 is a little overpriced (not alot overpriced like many reviews seem to lable it) the benefit of the spen allows me to ditch the notepad and sketchbook as well as the 10 inch tablet. This is huge for me as although the other items arent heavy, a whole day carrying my bag can start to take its toll on my shoulder.
Initial thoughts
My tablet arrived in my hands late last night so I havent had much time to spend with it. I love the responsiveness of the spen although I'm not used to the pressure sensitivity of it yet for drawing applications.
I'm a little overwhelmed by the additional apps, functions and settings added to the OS by Samsung at the moment. There seems to be a lot to go through and at least a few things that I have no use of. After I've spent a few days with it, I will talk about what I have enabled and disabled and why but in the mean time I expect to start at least one thread asking a few questions.
Waiting on my microSD card to arrive before I attempt to root it.
A few days in
Rooted the tablet using the method in the link in the mods section bellow. The process was smooth although I no longer am able to access Readers Huib as it displays "Rooting detected"
Installed SetCPU, Trickster, Greenify and FolderMount.
Installed 18GB of games with the assistance of my 64GB microSD and FolderMount.
Set 2 underclocking profiles using setCPU (screen off and battery <= 15%). Dont think ill overclock (at least not at the moment anyway) as everything seems to be running smooth as it is.
Set a few apps to hibernate with Greenify but will build up the list as i notice more apps unncessarily running in the background.
Not really sure if ill get much use out of Trickster yet.
Not had any issues with battery life, but I tend to disable anything I dont need at the time. went the whole weekend with out needing to charge with my current set up and regular use.
Will put up pictures to show my set up when I'm next home and remember (I mostly use forums at work...).
A few weeks in
Had a bit of an extended play now and can report back some more information. I havent used it for drawing as much as I had intended so far as i've been getting carried away with the amount of games that I can store on the device. The overall experience has been extremely positive. I have found that ive not really used the "S series" apps at all. I have S calendar on there but think i preffer google callender. I've been using Awesome note to take most of my notes although I havent figured out how to sync it with evernote yet. Thats the main reason I'm using that app. Im using LayerPaint as my main drawing app. So im only using S note when Im really in a hurry and need to jot something down.
For gaming I'm finding it a pleasure to use. The screen is extremely responsive and i have had little in the way of stuttering issues. The one thing I will say is that a section of the screen gets uncomfortably warm when playing a CPU/GPU intensive game. The CPU shows a temp of 40 degrees but the screen feels warmer than that making me think it may be the GPU thats getting hot. I've not had the chance to explore this further, but it is putting my off wanting to overclock them.
The GPS signal is great and im finding having an 8 inch satnav (with navfree) a really good companion in the car. The battery life is draining about about 20% per hour as a rough estimate through my initial tests with it. volume 60%. screen 60%. GPS on. All other conections off. Power saving mode enabled (not sure this makes much difference for me. Set CPU locks the CPU at my preffered settings, so this is just reducing the refresh rate and lowing the brightness slightly).
A month in
Switched from setCPU to TricksterMod. Although you cant set up specific scenarios with it, there are guvernors that do what I intended with scenarios anyway (luzactiveQ limits the CPU when the screen is off). I overclocked and undervolted both the GPU and CPU and have been pretty stable on my current settings (in the summary section bellow). It seems to be running cooler now as well and I'm no longer getting a hot patch on the left hand side of the screen. Got a new case based on the recomendations on this forum and a few more apps. Art Flow - recommend, although I'm still stuck on LayerPaint. Reviewing a few art reference apps I noticed on FaeMinx's post your homescreen post.
Accessories
Case
I decided to try a cheap case to start me off. Reported issues with magnetized cases on older notes has me spooked (see this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2288809). I liked the idea of the "Hidden Note" (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2254176) but I think its a little overkill for me.
I'm starting off with this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mulbess-Lea...TF8&colid=2SV9ALFBCBWRE&coliid=I21F5LS9DX0EES cheap and cheerful, plus the slight lip on the bezel it has will help prevent me accidentally triggering the capacitve buttons on the bottom of the tablet while holding it in landscape. This seems to be working. There are magnets in place to hold it closed. Im not sure how I feel about this...
Now got the Poetic Revolution case. Its a little pricey but not compared to the official one, but it does everything i wanted in a case. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2311243
Additional Spen
Bought the 8pi pen a few weeks ago once I had decided I wanted a note. It works very well with the tablet from my initial tests. I plan on doing a lot of digital art on this device.
Want to get a few days of usage under my belt before I decide if I want to do this or not though http://phandroid.com/2012/12/05/how-to-adjust-s-pen/ (adjust spen sensitivity)
microSD card
Due to the small amount of internal storage i decided a large microSD card is a must and will use an app or combination of apps to either move apps or app data onto it to allow me to install more than would otherwise be avialable. Ordered a Scandisk 64GB class 10 card.
Screen Protector.
Currently undecided whether I will use one or not. The case I have should keep the screen protected in transit and I cant see myself doing any damage to it with the sylus. The Revolution comes with a screen protector built in. If it starts to annoy me, I'll just pop it out.
Car Mount.
As this device has GPS I figure I'll take full advantage and use it as my Satnav (Nav Free) / in car entertainment system. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BXFLYTW/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Mods
Root - A must for me to be able to take advantage of the microSD card. used this method http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2251033 was a smooth process.
ROM - undecided. waiting to try out touchwiz to see if I like its features and to see what I can disable / uninstall if necesary to boost performance if i find a feature of no benefit
Kernel - Flashed Civs kernal. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2272917 Really pleased with it. allowed me to both undervolt and overclock the CPU and GPU and not had any performance issues.
CPU
100 - 1704
lulzactiveq (a modified interactive but also with the benefit of limiting the cpu when the screen is off). also set ignore_nice_load to 1. so that nice to have processes are now no longer run. only the higher priority ones are.
row
uv -75
GPU settings on
160 - 837500
350 - 912500
440 - 962500
533 - 1025000
1 up - 90
2 down - 41
2 up - 90
3 down - 70
3 up - 90
4 down - 73
System Apps
Trickster - Was using setCPU but foudn the additional functionality of Trickster to be useful. Specificy with the GPU tweeks.
FolderMount - I dont want to swap the internal and external memory as I plan on still being able to hot swap SD cards if I wish to review some of the photos I've take. I hope that by only moving the app data and not the app itself, I should have no issues doing this.
Auto Airoplane Mode - switches all connections off when the screen is off
Greenify - identify apps that open in the background looking for updates and dissabling that ability in order to preserve battery. I only want some apps to update if I open them.
Other Useful Apps
Titanium Backup
ES File Explorer
DiskUsage - true view of storage space in a easily understood layout. Helps identify wasted space and erase unused files.
Apps for use with Stylus (creative)
Sketchbook Pro - still learning how to use this
LayerPaint - simple lay out, but powerful tool. My favourite at the moment. The fadein/out pen is especially good for line art.
ArtFlow - relatively new app, but good support and growing features.
Lecture Notes - Better than S Note according to sources on here. Not tried it yet
Art reference tools
Handy
Pose Tool
All comments, feedback and suggestions welcome. I've had some great feed back so far on here but would like to have my entire set up in one thread so that people can make advice for me in complete context. Any performace enhancing or battery saving tips appreciated.
Special thanks to @FaeMinx for your general art app help and discussion and @civato for your general support to the comunity. Others have been helpful as well and hopefully I've clicked thanks where appropriate, but these two have been particularly helpful to me.

thank you
Thank you for your comprehensive note.
Please report here any eventual experience with an alternative ROM.
I'm not a Note 8 owner yet, waiting for a 32GB 3G version.
hertsjoatmon said:
I thought I'd start a thread to talk about my research in to this tablet and the conclusions and decisions i have taken in choosing it, setting it up and the mods i choose to incorporate or leave out. Dont know if it will help other people in choosing to buy one of these or not or if it will help others into expanding the capabilities of their stock unit, but I appreciate the feedback I've been getting on the individual threads I've been looking at.
Why I chose the Note 8.0
Since tablets first started becoming mass market items, I always had a problem with the 10 inch format that is most popular. I myself own a 10 inch tablet (an ASUS Transformer) and while I enjoy using it at home, I find it too bulky to take out with me yet too small to replace my laptop for any serious tasks. Having played with many tablets in stores over the years I soon decided that the 8-9inch form factor was one that was most ideal. 7inches was too small and too close to a mobile phone for my liking. Going up 1 inch adds about 25% more screen real estate and this is significant for me. Saying that, I never found a tablet in that size range that was up to standard in terms of tech spec. They always seems over priced, underpowered or were missing an important feature for my liking. The original note phone came out. I loved the idea and benefit that the spen brought to the table but thought it was too small to be useful for any serious input.
On an average day I will carry a camera, my phone, a note pad, my 10 inch tablet and sometimes a sketchbook as well. While I feel the 8.0 is a little overpriced (not alot overpriced like many reviews seem to lable it) the benefit of the spen allows me to ditch the notepad and sketchbook as well as the 10 inch tablet. This is huge for me as although the other items arent heavy, a whole day carrying my bag can start to take its toll on my shoulder.
So. Here I am, about to receive my new tablet this weekend and very excited to do so. I would have bought one sooner, but I was waiting for news of a higher capacity device but according to Samsung Westfield and Samsung Customer Support that is unlikely to arrive anytime soon.
Accessories
Case
I decided to try a cheap case to start me off. Reported issues with magnetized cases on older notes has me spooked (see this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2288809). I liked the idea of the "Hidden Note" (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2254176) but I think its a little overkill for me.
I'm starting off with this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mulbess-Lea...TF8&colid=2SV9ALFBCBWRE&coliid=I21F5LS9DX0EES cheap and cheerful, plus im hoping the slight lip on the bezel it has will help prevent me accidentally triggering the capacitve buttons on the bottom of the tablet while holding it in landscape. Will report back my experience.
Additional Spen
Bought the 8pi pen a few weeks ago once I had decided I wanted a note. I tried it will my girlfriends original note and it felt nice in my hands. I plan on doing a lot of digital art on this device.
microSD card
Due to the small amount of internal storage i decided a large microSD card is a must and will use an app or combination of apps to either move apps or app data onto it to allow me to install more than would otherwise be avialable. Ordered a Scandisk 64GB class 10 card.
Screen Protector.
Currently undecided whether I will use one or not. The case I have should keep the screen protected in transit and I cant see myself doing any damage to it with the sylus.
Car Mount.
As this device has GPS I figure I'll take full advantage and use it as my Satnav (Nav Free) / in car entertainment system.
Mods
Root - A must for me to be able to take advantage of the microSD card
ROM - undecided. waiting to try out touchwiz to see if I like its features and to see what I can disable / uninstall if necesary to boost performance if i find a feature of no benefit (Peel Remote?, Multi-Windows?, spen on pull ou?t, touchdown push?)
Kernel - Will be flashing a custom kernel. I plan on overclocking the CPU slightly but will also be looking to do the same with the GPU as if it is like the S3 it can be pushed a little harder with out upping the voltage.
System Apps
SetCPU - will overclock slightly but also set it to underclock when the battery is getting low and when the screen is off.
FolderMount or link2SD - I dont want to swap the internal and external memory as I plan on still being able to hot swap SD cards if I wish to review some of the photos I've take. I hope that by only moving the app data and not the app itself, I should have no issues doing this.
That will do for now. I better get back to work. Been typing this for a while now. Will talk about about what theming I plan on doing and some of the other apps I intend on using. Wont bother talking about games or anything like that though.
All comments, feedback and suggestions welcome. I've had some great feed back so far on here but would like to have my entire set up in one thread so that people can make advice for me in complete context. Any performace enhancing or battery saving tips appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

lautunno said:
I'm not a Note 8 owner yet, waiting for a 32GB 3G version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may be waiting a while... As I stated in my post, according to both the official store and the online customer service there is no current planned release date for a 32gb model (at least not here in the UK). They say that the demand isnt there (which is a joke in my opinion). Having been told this I decided to go down the "transfer app data to microSD" route.

Honestly, peel is useful to me solely for turning on the television. It's painfully slow to send commands like channel selection to the set.
Multiwindow is very valuable. Comparing things to instructions (ie, have root explorer and a browser open simultaneously to look at files; have a browser and a terminal emulator open simultaneously to read commands in the browser and issue them correctly without swapping between apps.)
I don't know if the multiwindow app in Play supports non-touchwiz roms, but at this point the alternate roms are still touchwiz based, afaik.
Civato has a kernel with underclock, undervolt and overclock support. The recommended app for working with it is trickster, and folks are getting good results.
So far the s-pen handwriting recognition has been disappointing to me. I used some of my 25 dollar Play credit to buy My Script Notes Mobile.
Using it basically requires disabling the use of the GPU for 2d rendering at this time. That's too bad, because doing so does have some impact on overall performance at least in benchmarks. I'm undecided on whether it's also a real issue in use (just learned of the fix last night) and the handwriting recognition is very good.

roustabout said:
So far the s-pen handwriting recognition has been disappointing to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really?
I found the handwriting recognition to be amazing... Perhaps I'm just lucky, but my messy inconsistent poorly formed chicken scratch gets recognised perfectly every time... I was actually surprised because I thought I would have to learn to write carefully and slowly to make use of this feature.
I'm thrilled I can whip out the S Pen and scrawl across the screen at speed and the device just understands... Hell, even I can't make out my letters sometimes.

@herts,
Thanks for liking the Hidden Note 8 concept. I'm designing the 3rd version of it with an integrated micro USB wired 3mm thick keyboard. The TPU protected Note 8 and the keyboard would be housed in a 16mm thick notebook.
Yup, it's overkill but it works for some people. More on that thread one i finish making it.
I've been trying to use Directory Bind so that large data would be on the external card and "ghosted" on to the main device memory when the app is used. Initially it works, but then the links disappear on a restart. This was successful with my Note 2, where the direct-wifi file transfers go directly onto my large capacity micro SD card.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using XDA Premium HD app

Finally got my Note 8.0 last night (a week later than planned) and will add my initial thoughts to the OP.
Basically its that I love the tablet but am a little overwhelmed at the additional features and applications added by Samsung. Need to get comfortable with them and remove those which I dont use. As a fan of efficiency, even if i only get a few extra minutes of battery life or a few extra mb free, ill still get rid of functionality I wont make use of...

FaeMinx said:
Really?
I found the handwriting recognition to be amazing... Perhaps I'm just lucky, but my messy inconsistent poorly formed chicken scratch gets recognised perfectly every time... I was actually surprised because I thought I would have to learn to write carefully and slowly to make use of this feature.
I'm thrilled I can whip out the S Pen and scrawl across the screen at speed and the device just understands... Hell, even I can't make out my letters sometimes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too, unfortunately the default settings aren't necessatily the best.
HasC in the note 10.1 Tips and Tricks thread has a great video on setting up recognition which is applicable for the note 8:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=30747569

Do you find the 8PI accurate? I use another pen and found it okay by two pixels at a perpendicular angle and at a slant is of by as many as five MM.
Sent from my GT-N5110 using XDA Premium HD app

Bonisaur said:
Do you find the 8PI accurate? I use another pen and found it okay by two pixels at a perpendicular angle and at a slant is of by as many as five MM.
Sent from my GT-N5110 using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had no issues with it with the initial test sketches I've been doing with it.
I have found I leave the battery saving option in the spen settings on as I am a bit OCD about saving battery. It means I have to pull the supplied spen out a small amount when I want to use the 8pi, but I have no issues in doing this.
I read alot about the pens being slightly off, I even started a thread about it in the Q&A section of this forum, but I'm finding it to be very accurate with this device, even when using it at an angle.
There doesnt seem to be a left handed or right handed option in this tablet which makes me thing that an offset with an older Note may be purposely put there to account for people holding a pen at an angle. What ever orentation I'm using the tablet in, the pointer on the screen seems to be at the tip of the nib, so I am happy.

Added some more comments to the OP about my experience having had the tablet a few days now. added a link to the root tool i used. and a few extra comments on some of the apps i am using.

Some screen shots of my desktop area and settings...

added a but more of my experience having had the tablet a week or 2 now.

My stylus is pretty much perfect. I dont know with the others but mine is fine. Maybe because my hand are not shaky? hahaha.

alicepattinson said:
My stylus is pretty much perfect. I dont know with the others but mine is fine. Maybe because my hand are not shaky? hahaha.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shaky hands? Are you refering to the person who was complaining about the handwriting recognition? I've had no issues with both the supplied stylus or the 8pi. Both are working fantastically and I preffer the handwriting input to the keyboard when inputting text and even better with the drawing applications I've tried so far.

Added further experience. switched from set CPU to Trickster Mod and included my current settings. Got a new case and few new apps.
Not decided whether I will condence my experience progress into one section with my final result or leave it as it is showing how I came to the conclusions I have...

Nexus 10, is it that bad?

I've been reading for quite awhile because I got myself one (it's still on the way to me, so no hands on yet). I got it mainly because it's a Nexus and I'm done with those 3rd modifications on top of vanilla.
However, I'm getting really mixed comments from all of you guys. Some said it's really nice, some said it's the worst tablet. Although things are always going back to people's own preference but from what I read, 4.2.2 did give lotsa headaches to users mainly because of leaked memory and so.
So users, can you give me your truthful comments from both pros and cons? I can only get the device by next week and after that, it will be my time to list out my very own pros and cons.
Thanks and cheers!
Nexus4 modded with cyanogen.

Yeah, you better cancel your order because some random a holes on the internet did not like something.

Well, the problem is, I can't. Plus, I'm still quite skeptical about the reboots and I have faith that it will be fixed with the update soon.
Are you one of the users?
I'm definitely ok with a bit of problems and it gives me perfect reason to root and tweak it on myself although some do claim that, it should work perfectly fine out of the box.
Nexus4 modded with cyanogen.

I'm running stock and can definitely say that the surfaceflinger memory exists. It becomes obvious when you play multiple videos (streaming or video files). When you do other activities this bug is not readily apparent.
I also from time to time get random WiFi disconnects, which are easily fixed by toggling the WiFi off/on. With that being said I really like my N10 and am using it for more than I expected when I bought it. The display resolution, I/O speed and CPU are all outstanding.
At least the memory leak can be fixed and I read that the surfaceflinger driver developer already has it ready. This gives me hope that Android 4.3 will include the fix. The N10 used as a media consumption device is very good/excellent. I am not disappointed with my purchase.
My laptop at the about same price point (after including N10 accessories) has not been turned on in over three months. All my news reading has move from my desktop PC to the N10. I was surprised at how smooth that transition went.

The only thing that really bothered me about the Nexus 10 is how it could throttle and lower CPU clocks under general usage (general being like playing a game). But then again, the Nexus 4 also does this...
Aside from that though, I find the N10 pretty awesome

The light bleed at the bottom right is the only thing that has bothered me much, but that's because the threads here pointed it out and turned on an OCD switch in me. After almost a month, I had my first two reboots last night, both while watching an hourlong streaming video from a TV network site (using Firefox with Flash). Other than that, couldn't be happier with my N10.

3DSammy said:
I'm running stock and can definitely say that the surfaceflinger memory exists. It becomes obvious when you play multiple videos (streaming or video files). When you do other activities this bug is not readily apparent.
I also from time to time get random WiFi disconnects, which are easily fixed by toggling the WiFi off/on. With that being said I really like my N10 and am using it for more than I expected when I bought it. The display resolution, I/O speed and CPU are all outstanding.
At least the memory leak can be fixed and I read that the surfaceflinger driver developer already has it ready. This gives me hope that Android 4.3 will include the fix. The N10 used as a media consumption device is very good/excellent. I am not disappointed with my purchase.
My laptop at the about same price point (after including N10 accessories) has not been turned on in over three months. All my news reading has move from my desktop PC to the N10. I was surprised at how smooth that transition went.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
espionage724 said:
The only thing that really bothered me about the Nexus 10 is how it could throttle and lower CPU clocks under general usage (general being like playing a game). But then again, the Nexus 4 also does this...
Aside from that though, I find the N10 pretty awesome
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
JasW said:
The light bleed at the bottom right is the only thing that has bothered me much, but that's because the threads here pointed it out and turned on an OCD switch in me. After almost a month, I had my first two reboots last night, both while watching an hourlong streaming video from a TV network site (using Firefox with Flash). Other than that, couldn't be happier with my N10.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the thing that I always talk about. It's a nexus and all problems will be solved for sure by Google itself. With such a good display as well as the A15 architecture proc, it's really a beast and let alone the pure vanilla android.
People are a little bit over exaggerated about the bug, IMO. We receive the newest version and bugs are bearable with me. At least buyers should be aware of the firmware is always the latest which might be a little big buggy. Few positive comments over here are really making my day.

Another thing that bothered me is available RAM. Google states the tablet has 2GB of RAM, which is true (there is 2GB worth of RAM chips installed on the motherboard technically). Before 4.2.2, about 400MB was reserved specifically for the GPU, which is the largest amount of RAM I've seen on any Android device, so that left 1.6GB usable. Not that bad, and it still rounded to 2GB (most other devices though to be fair take like 200-300MB; but the N10 is driving a pretty beefy resolution)
WIth 4.2.2, the RAM reserved for the GPU doubled to 800-some MB (836?). So now the total RAM that the user can use on their own is 1.2GB. No longer nearly close to 2GB.
I guess nothing can really be done about it now, but I don't understand why there just isn't dedicated memory just for the GPU, or why Google doesn't just advertise how much RAM is actually available to use. This isn't an issue at all on most other devices, since the missing memory is usually a small amount, but when almost half of the advertised RAM is missing and not even user-configurable (most computers with IGPs sharing system memory at least let you specify how much you want to dedicated to it)... I find that pretty shady :/
On the other hand, I don't have any out-of-memory problems though (aside from the surfaceflinger thing), so it doesn't seem to be an "actual" issue.

I haven't really noticed anything wrong with my nexus 10 I think its great and fast. Also 4.3 is going to be released soon which should fix any software related issues and make it even smoother . I don't use my tablet as much as others might so maybe that's why I don't notice anything wrong. I generally use it 2-3 hours a day and the only thing I hat is the charging time which feels like forever and that it has a phablet ui rather than tablet look which wastes a little screen space. What they should do is get rid of notification bar and combine it with Nav bar like other tablets
Sent from my Xperia Play (r800x)

abdel12345 said:
... What they should do is get rid of notification bar and combine it with Nav bar like other tablets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use full!screen and LMT/PIE and get all the screen resolution back (full 2560x1600). full!screen gets rid of both bars and provides a notifications pop-up while LMT/PIE can be configured with all the navigation buttons plus much more. I've been using that combination on rooted stock for months now and would never go back to the waste of space that either bar takes.
I like the clean AOSP browser in fullscreen mode plus thumb controls but it does not always paint properly when used with full!screen (artifacts where the navigation bar used to be). I switched to Ocean browser which is really AOSP with a new UI and that fixed the fullscreen paint issue.

3DSammy said:
Use full!screen and LMT/PIE and get all the screen resolution back (full 2560x1600). full!screen gets rid of both bars and provides a notifications pop-up while LMT/PIE can be configured with all the navigation buttons plus much more. I've been using that combination on rooted stock for months now and would never go back to the waste of space that either bar takes.
I like the clean AOSP browser in fullscreen mode plus thumb controls but it does not always paint properly when used with full!screen (artifacts where the navigation bar used to be). I switched to Ocean browser which is really AOSP with a new UI and that fixed the fullscreen paint issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome thanks a lot man I'll try that out
Sent from my Xperia Play (r800x)

billy_overheat said:
Here's the thing that I always talk about. It's a nexus and all problems will be solved for sure by Google itself. With such a good display as well as the A15 architecture proc, it's really a beast and let alone the pure vanilla android.
People are a little bit over exaggerated about the bug, IMO. We receive the newest version and bugs are bearable with me. At least buyers should be aware of the firmware is always the latest which might be a little big buggy. Few positive comments over here are really making my day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can deal with random reboots don't worry about it. It really is something that depends on use. Watching YouTube via chrome will exacerbate the reboots. The actual app doesn't seem to eat the memory. However for my use I can't have it rebooting in the middle of a meeting or trying to dial into work so it has become something of a paperweight. I know how to consume the memory and how to avoid it but it will still eventually reboot. If your using it for goof off purposes instead of productivity you'll be fine. Also, please don't be an Android/Google apologist. They've had 6 months to fix the issue. And they don't market it as a device with buggy firmware that will reboot. If they called it Nexus 10 developer edition I'd agree with you.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

billy_overheat said:
So users, can you give me your truthful comments from both pros and cons? I can only get the device by next week and after that, it will be my time to list out my very own pros and cons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pros:
- Highest resolution tablet on the market, nobody else comes close, even latest iPad has 25% less pixels. I had a Thunderbolt display at work last year and loved working with so much screen real-estate, well, this tablet has even more pixels in 10" than that display had in 27".
- First Android device with beefy Cortex A15 CPU, the Exynos 5 Dual, still the only tablet on the market with A15.
- I actually like the build, fairly thin and I like the sticky material on back.
- For $500 for 32 GB, the one I got, you won't find any device with such high-end specs.
- Android 4.2.2 is usually fairly snappy, sometimes I go back and forth between the home screen and the application drawer just to see the snazzy zoom-in/zoom-out animation and how fast it is.
Each one of these comes with drawbacks however.
Cons:
- You want a high resolution, you have to pay for it with power draw. The display consistently accounts for about 60% of battery usage, even though I keep the brightness at about 30% under light and dial it down to the lowest setting in a dark room. The colors are good but a bit washed out, particularly when compared to an iPad. I wish it had a matte display like my Zenbook, as the glossy display does catch reflections, but I'm not sure that's possible for a tablet.
- The Exynos 5 CPU takes more power than it should and runs somewhat hot. Not as hot as the Tegra 3 in my HOX+, but fairly warm.
- I was surprised how heavy 1.3 lbs felt from the first time I held it. The battery in this thing is huge, 9Ah, compared to 2-3 Ah in most current flagship phones, like the One or S4. It probably had to be so big with that power-sucking display and CPU, but it adds weight.
- The build is a bit creaky and sometimes feels like you have to snap particular pieces back into place, probably to be expected at this cheap price.
- Android still has times when it starts lagging and everything you do takes a second or two to register. These slowdowns often come out of the blue and you're never sure what's going on. This is a mobile OS, so prepare to be frustrated when apps are backgrounded and cached data is lost, particularly if you're expecting something closer to desktop performance because of the specs. The known memory leak in 4.2.2 exacerbates this problem.
I'm happy with my Nexus 10, as I enjoy the high resolution and don't use it anywhere as much as my ultrabook. Now that I know about the memory leak, I may start trying to use it for web reading again, which I had to give up on because it was unusable when Chrome would start reloading every page for no reason. Now I know to reboot when that starts happening, so I at least have a workaround till they fix it.

I love the tablet, for the way I use it - which may be considered light use by most here - it is perfect. The memory issue is real there is no doubt about that. But it is also easily avoided. I reboot my N10 with a tasker profile once during the night and that is that. However I game on it very rarely and use it mostly for streaming movies or just browing the web. One reboot each night seems to be enough to not make these issues appear.
Having said that I have none of the other reported issues, no random reboots or whacky Wifi - I turn Wifi off when the tablet is not in use - but I am also running SentinelRom which seems to be ironing out a lot of the smaller issues. With this ROM scrolling for example has become a silky smooth affair.
Battery life is excellent, much better than the boards make it out to be. I rarely use the N10 with brightness above 25% because it is already so bright on that setting there is no need for it. There may be light bleed - hey it's an LCD after all! - but I never notice any the way I use it. The display is gorgeous in every way, shape and form and I really really like the fact that putting it on lowest brightness makes it really dark. This is perfect for using it in bed at night without getting eye cancer.
With the POGO charger the tablet even has decent charging speed.
Regarding build quality I cannot complain at all. My tablet is not creaky in the least. I had a TF101 which was way worse. I mostly use it with a Poetic smart cover and couldn't be happier. The weight is of course noticeable, but then again this is 10 inches of hardware, it will never feel light as a feather.
Still there are some undeniable software issues still present. The memory leak being one, some issues with scrolling (except when using SentinelRom) being another. But I have yet to see the "perfect" android device which so far does not exist. Google still has a lot of work to do.

rxnelson said:
If you can deal with random reboots don't worry about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not getting the random reboots you speak of. Use my tablet 3-4 hours per day, sometimes more, and do not recall having 1 reboot. AOSP browser closures, yes, though with newer versions not as much. Have 2 Nexus 10 tablets, one stock, one sw display itching between SaberMod and Buttered AOKP.
Had both theTF101 and TF700. Went with the ASUS because of it's IPS+ display and SD card slot. 5 weeks after receiving, had to send it in for charging issues..oneof my main problems with the TF101. For the slight amount of money more for the Nexus 10, it is a much better option. Check out Swappa.com-can typically get a slightly used Nexus 10 for a really good price

mpicasso said:
Not getting the random reboots you speak of.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You left out my next sentence. It depends on use. I can duplicate the surfaceflinger issue with eventual reboot on stock CM, buttered AOKP, and rasbean. Obviously we use the tablet differently.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

rxnelson said:
You left out my next sentence. It depends on used. I can duplicate the surfaceflinger issue with eventual reboot on stock CM, buttered AOKP, and rasbean. Obviously we use the tablet differently.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also left out the statement that got me to post originally: "However for my use I can't have it rebooting in the middle of a meeting or trying to dial into work so it mass become something of a paperweight." As the OP was curious about the reliability of this tablet, I wanted to offer a different perspective.
As a tablet for business, I use it for surfing (quote obtained from website, along with any needed client info), note taking, power point and excel, E-mail, along with a few other things. In a given day, I may spend 3-4 hours, while in client homes, using my tablet. So yes, we may use these differently, but for any "business" function I have thrown at it, it works fine. I also do not do many video presentations, which may explain why I do not experience the same issues as you.

My Z4 Tablet Pros and Cons

This might help people eyeing the Z4 Tablet, but are unsure of what positives and negatives there are. Of course, this is highly subjective, but this is my list. It's influenced by my personal competing choices which were the Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 and the Google Pixel C. I'm happy I chose the Sony Xperia Z4 Tablet.
Pros:
Fast SoC (Qualcomm Snapdragon 810)
This is Qualcomm's 2015 flagship SoC and from what I've experienced it's really fast. Android flies. It also runs 64-bit, which it should anyway, but for example Samsung's Tab S2 doesn't. I don't know about the graphical performance as I don't really play games.
'Compatible' SoC (Qualcomm Snapdragon 810)
This opens up the way for optimized-for-specific-SoC apps (like RSBrowser, which is Snapdragon-optimized and significantly faster than stock Chrome/Chromium) and CyanogenMod support, that need documentation/drivers. For example, Samsung's (faster) Exynos SoC's are a black box for developers, which makes things like this very hard and has the result of devs abandoning it.
Big internal storage (32GB)
32GB is plenty of storage for apps and a reasonable amount of media. But that can be stored on the microSD.
microSD capability (up to 128GB)
This is a major benefit for a media consumption device like this, which many devices don't have.
Good multitasking
I could have mentioned 3GB RAM, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Multitasking on the Z4 is pretty darn good. It swtiches quickly and is generally very snappy. My Samsung Galaxy S6 with 3GB RAM has pretty bad RAM management in comparison. I'm still trying to find a custom kernel for it that keeps the phone snappy after 2 days.
Huge screen solution, high ppi on a big screen
2560x1600, 299ppi. On a big 10.1 inch screen. This is wonderful.
16:10 aspect ratio screen
Which is good for widescreen content like movies and dSLR photo's. 16:10 also beats 16:9 for me because of the added screen height.
Screen has natural, accurate colors
Very subjective, but compared to several other screens I've found this one to be superior.
Front facing stereo speakers
A rare thing among Android devices. Good design choice.
Lightweight (~390gr), thin
It's pleasantly light to hold.
NFC, notification LED, GPS, vibration motor
These features are often overlooked, but are important to me. I use NFC for LastPass, the (multicolor!) LED with LightFlow to see what exactly is asking my attention when in standby, vibration to still be notified when I want the tablet to be silent and GPS for the occasional navigation need or social app check-in.
Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0
Another nice bonus, which isn't mentioned much. Quick Charge makes a major difference to charging speed. Needs a compatible charger though.
Big battery (6000mAh)
Can't yet say battery life is amazing, because I'm using it a lot and crank the screen brightness up quite high so don't know what to expect. Reviewers seem to agree it's great though.
Bootloader can be unlocked (so the road is open for rooting)
No waiting for an exploit if you're OK with going this route. Just follow Sony's instructions and you'll have root in no time.
Marshmallow announced
Should come January '16 I heard, but these things always get delayed :| At least it's coming.
AOSP commitment by Sony
Sony's Open Device Program is nice and all, but their sources are a bit troublesome and don't seem to produce functional ROMs. Still, Sony's stance on it might bode well for future things.
Water-/dustproof
I don't care much myself, but it's a nice bonus. At least it takes some worries away (dropping liquids on it, no fear for dust particles between the screen and the glass).
Keyboard dock option
Nice for when you want to use a physical keyboard that is fully compatible and is also attachable. I use a 3rd party BT keyboard, but I'm constantly fighting with fixing incompatible button mapping stuff.
Important root-specific things that work
These things are not guaranteed to work or be available on any rooted device, and are pretty major in adding possibilities, so I consider them pros to be working on the Z4T:
Xposed Framework
For most people anyway (Some are having issues). This is a thing to be happy about, because if it didn't, chances are it wouldn't be fixed anytime soon because of the small user/dev base. Xposed opens up many possibilities which really enhance a device. To me it's a selling point.
Native KCAL support
Another Qualcomm exclusive. I believe this is actually fully present on the stock ROM, but not fully controllable (limited to RGB in the Settings menu). KCAL support enables you to tweak various image parameters, like RGB, saturation and contrast with a tool like Color Control or Kernel Adiutor. It's pretty great and you don't see it often.
Cons:
SoC might overheat in extreme circumstances
Haven't had any problems myself, and I stress the tablet pretty hard, but I've read some reports about issues. At least of a guy bringing the tablet to the beach. It's mostly just people saying it's fine, even with heavy usage.
Speakers are lacking in bass
No surprise, but it's still a letdown.
Bad low-light camera performance, no flash
Picture quality in low light is disturbingly bad. Having no flash makes this unusable in those situations. Not a big deal for me personally, I don't take pics with a tablet.
Screen isn't that bright
Compared to several others, the screen isn't that bright and needs to be cranked up pretty much, even indoors. Outdoors, this is a problem. The big screen reflectiveness doesn't help either. Indoors it fine, it just that the needed high brightness level eats battery.
Screen lacks deep blacks
This is compared to (S)AMOLED, specifically. Those screen blacks are amazing and darker colors are also good for battery on those screens. IPS screens just don't have that. Using dark themes won't help battery life on the Z4T, it may even be worse with them.
Stock charger isn't Quick Charge 2.0
Come on, Sony.
No hardware navigation buttons
This is a real PITA for me because this requires Android's soft keys / navigation bar which take up valuable screen space. This is especially problematic in landscape mode on this 16:10 ratio in which you'll want every screen height you can get. Fortunately, this can be overcome by tools like GMD Full Screen Immersive Mode (with full screen keyboard typing restrictions so you'll have to switch back to type :S) combined with All in One Gestures, both of which don't reqquire root. Better yet is a build.prop edit that declares to Android the tablet has hardware buttons, removing the soft keys entirely, while keeping the ability to type anywhere. I navigate using All in One Gestures, because GMD GestureControl sometimes stops working. Which isn't very nice when you don't have navigation keys
No user-land root exploit (yet)
Because of this, you'll need to unlock the bootloader to gain root access. Which will destroy your TA partition, which will in turn remove Sony-proprietary functions. Which I personally don't use and don't see much use for anyway. Also, unlocked bootloader can't be undone without Sony noticing, so as a non-EU citizen you'll possibly have warranty issues.
Small user/dev community
Not many people own a Z4 Tablet (bad availability in the US and it's expensive) and because of this, there's next to no development for it. Luckily, we have @AndroPlus who's made a custom kernel and ported TWRP (which unfortunately has a bug that keeps us from restoring the system partition from a backup). @DHGE worked on root, which made it possible in the end I think. Still, custom ROMs would be nice. Also, if you run into device-specific problems, there's not many others that can help, because you're either the only one or one of very few who have that problem.
It's expensive
The price is very high and a bit hard to justify.
What I miss:
Wireless charging
This is sooo convenient. It also spares the precious MicroUSB port, which is used for charging, data-transfer, USB-OTG and adb/fastboot. If it breaks, you're done.
Removable battery
Batteries do not have eternal life, so eventually it will be completely dead. Which will render the tablet dead as well.
Any thoughts, questions, additions or critique is welcome.

jelbo said:
[*]Small user/dev community
Not many people own a Z4 Tablet (bad availability in the US and it's expensive) and because of this, there's next to no development for it. Luckily, we have @AndroPlus who's made a custom kernel and ported TWRP (which unfortunately had a bug that keeps us from restoring the system partition from a backup). @DHGE worked on root, which made it possible in the end I think. Still, custom ROMs would be nice. Also, if you run into device-specific problems, there's not many others that can help, because you're either the only one or one of very few that have that problem.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello jelbo. Let's discuss about it. First of all, our tablet is not alone with some sort of problem. z3+ and z5 devices are the same story. I don't really understand how can we have aosp sources but not to have its rom. So what the problem, some building problem, or is it true that aosp roms works without working sensors? People give different feedback. Did you try some aosp rom? I just want to cook aosp rom in ubuntu.

alex009988 said:
Hello jelbo. Let's discuss about it. First of all, our tablet is not alone with some sort of problem. z3+ and z5 devices are the same story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they're similar. Which actually makes me think about a positive point as development for those devices can also benefit Z4T owners. For example @[NUT]'s efforts may eventually reach us, or when an Xperia user-land exploit is found, it will likely be shared among different devices.
I don't really understand how can we have aosp sources but not to have its rom. So what the problem, some building problem, or is it true that aosp roms works without working sensors? People give different feedback. Did you try some aosp rom? I just want to cook aosp rom in ubuntu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not too sure about the reasons, but what I've seen is that 1) the Sony sources are/have been a bit buggy/messy 2) not many people compile ROMs from it (I've only seen 2 XDA users and the FXP Team).
I haven't yet dared to flash any AOSP build because I've been too busy on getting stock rooted to my liking and troubleshooting my Xposed issues and I don't want to interrupt that. It seems to be quite easy to flash ROMs though, it's either a TWRP flashable .zip, Flashtool flashable .tft or fastboot flashable .bin files.
I'm also curious about the mixed reports about 'sensor stuff not working' and 'everything works fine' on Sony-sourced AOSP builds, but so far no-one has answered my or your questions about it. Seems we'll have too find out ourselves at some point Best leave that part of questions and discussion in their respective threads to keep things organized.

Nice summary, thanks for the effort; its clear and concise.

jelbo said:
it's either a TWRP flashable .zip,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think free xperia team jeer at us cause twrp has a serious bug and it can't flash any roms for the time being whereas we can see exactly .zips at their site.
Interesting, had they even tested themselves what they uploaded

jelbo said:
Yes, they're similar. Which actually makes me think about a positive point as development for those devices can also benefit Z4T owners. For example @[NUT]'s efforts may eventually reach us, or when an Xperia user-land exploit is found, it will likely be shared among different devices.
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Click to collapse
I've put XZDualRecovery on 'feature freeze' for 2.8 well over a year ago, because it needs some work to keep it working on the ever changing Android eco-system. As a consequence, I also stopped adding devices to the supported devices list. For XZDR 2.9 things will change and I will start adding devices again, remember that I am just on my own, from time to time I have a helper but they generally drop out after a while and I'm on my own again after that... I have a busy real life and a very busy job, which consumes most of my energy, leaving only little amounts of it for use on the XZDR development unfortunately... and I have big plans with it which I'd rather deploy sooner then later.
As security features increase, so do the difficulties to keep XZDR working properly... For the Z3+/Z4/Z5/M4 Aqua it is dm-verity, which throws a tantrum once the system partition is modified, which in turn causes a reboot (and with that a bootloop). This behavior has hampered the Stock Based custom ROM development and made it generally impossible to root the device...
A backup-ta with a built-in root exploit (similar to the XZDR installer) to allow a backup of the TA partition would kick-start the development for these models. People don't mind unlocking their devices but do mind losing their warranty on a 500-700 euro device... so most of them wait for the possibility to backup their TA partition.

Oh, and to actually participate in this topic:
I have to say the Z4 tablet takes my fancy and tics just about all the boxes of things I like about tablets... I own a Xperia Tablet Z, well, the misses has it now and I can 'occasionally' touch it :silly: and I have been looking for a new tablet to actually use myself
I don't have the funds to purchase a TabZ4, but I would really like to have one with the keyboard dock

[NUT] said:
Oh, and to actually participate in this topic:
I have to say the Z4 tablet takes my fancy and tics just about all the boxes of things I like about tablets... I own a Xperia Tablet Z, well, the misses has it now and I can 'occasionally' touch it :silly: and I have been looking for a new tablet to actually use myself
I don't have the funds to purchase a TabZ4, but I would really like to have one with the keyboard dock
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Hello. Thanks for participating our thread. Tab Z4 is a great device with cool hardware, but it is less developed in comparison with Samsung to my regret. All we want for this moment are a fix of bug for twrp, problem with mounting the system, and some customs roms. And the very big dream is cyanogenmod of course

@jelbo, where in NL do you live? Did you root your TabZ4 yet?
---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------
alex009988 said:
Hello. Thanks for participating our thread. Tab Z4 is a great device with cool hardware, but it is less developed in comparison with Samsung to my regret. All we want for this moment are a fix of bug for twrp, problem with mounting the system, and some customs roms. And the very big dream is cyanogenmod of course
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I am assuming that custom ROM's will come as soon as there is a viable way to flash them
I wonder why @AndroPlus wasn't able to fix the TWRP mount issues yet...

alex009988 said:
Hello. Thanks for participating our thread. Tab Z4 is a great device with cool hardware, but it is less developed in comparison with Samsung to my regret. All we want for this moment are a fix of bug for twrp, problem with mounting the system, and some customs roms. And the very big dream is cyanogenmod of course
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty confident CM will support the 'karin' at some point. Many other Sony phones/tablets are officially supported.
[NUT] said:
@jelbo, where in NL do you live? Did you root your TabZ4 yet?
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Click to collapse
I'll tell you in a PM Yeah, I've unlocked my bootloader and rooted it. I couldn't restrain myself anymore It's so much better now. Just some littles gripes left that'll be fixed sooner or later.
Well, I am assuming that custom ROM's will come as soon as there is a viable way to flash them
I wonder why @AndroPlus wasn't able to fix the TWRP mount issues yet...
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Click to collapse
Time restraints, who knows? He did post a v11 version of the kernel some days ago though @dl12345 who greatly helped him getting TWRP to work, may be able to fix it, but he hasn't been around. You can follow some technical details about it in the AndroPlusKernel thread.
It's just /system/ that cannot be restored though. Which is bad, but you can get out of a bad situation pretty quickly with restoring /data/ and using Helium/Titanium Backup, I think. Unless you really fried the ROM and need your /system/ back, then you can only go the flashtool route now

jelbo said:
I'm pretty confident CM will support the 'karin' at some point. Many other Sony phones/tablets are officially supported.
I'll tell you in a PM Yeah, I've unlocked my bootloader and rooted it. I couldn't restrain myself anymore It's so much better now. Just some littles gripes left that'll be fixed sooner or later.
Time restraints, who knows? He did post a v11 version of the kernel some days ago though @dl12345 who greatly helped him getting TWRP to work, may be able to fix it, but he hasn't been around. You can follow some technical details about it in the AndroPlusKernel thread.
It's just /system/ that cannot be restored though. Which is bad, but you can get out of a bad situation pretty quickly with restoring /data/ and using Helium/Titanium Backup, I think. Unless you really fried the ROM and need your /system/ back, then you can only go the flashtool route now
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* [NUT] pokes @AndroPlus to join this conversation.
Due to lack of time on my side to read the entire topic, what exactly fails when restoring system?
@jelbo, do you have his kernel installed (a.k.a. have you unlocked your bootloader)?

[NUT] said:
* [NUT] pokes @AndroPlus to join this conversation.
Due to lack of time on my side to read the entire topic, what exactly fails when restoring system?
@jelbo, do you have his kernel installed (a.k.a. have you unlocked your bootloader)?
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Yes and yes. Basically anyone here who's rooted their tablet is running AndoPlusKernel and have manually unlocked their bootloader.

jelbo said:
Yes and yes. Basically anyone here who's rooted their tablet is running AndoPlusKernel and have manually unlocked their bootloader.
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I see, that un-complicates testing a lot

Gotta say... amazing tablet all together and the first device that i havent seen the mighty snapdragon handwarmer throttle from heat in. I kept roasting it for about 3 hours with simpleplanes and PC minecraft (boardwalk app) and it didnt lose any performance just got a bit hot on the back middle. I find the battery life to be good enough for a day of being on and off watching youtube and occasional gaming but i do keep screen brightness on auto at all times and features such as BT NFC and GPS off. Also a app that i think the tablet should have from factory: OGYoutube, you can have floating resizeable youtube above other apps or play in background or with screen off and download in mp4 or mp3.

I'd picked up a Z4T about 4 months ago to replace two different devices, my aging and finally dead cell phone (I hung on to my old Samsung S3 for way too long), and my laptop, which is a still functional but extraordinarily heavy beast of a 17" macbook - about 6 years old on its own as well. What can I say, they were still working so why buy new?
I have to say I'm very glad I made the purchase. I picked up a SBH52 handset to make phone calls more convenient, and splurged on the sony docking kb for the added ruggedness of using it as a "case" - which it does like a champ. Calls are nice and clear, and I've had pretty much no troubles - aside from some occasional static when using the handset (which I owe to the handset itself being a bit flaky). Even with an unlocked BL, remote play on my PS4 still works, only the Bravia screen mirroring to my TV is kaput. It serves very well as a laptop for those like me that need something lightweight for overnight trips, let with a big enough screen to be able to remote desktop troubleshoot back to the main office.
Would this replace every computer I own? Obviously not. I still own a high end desktop for videos, games, and intense word processing (the sony kb is just a bit small if you were attempting to write a novel for example); and my PS4 for console games; but for light end use and for traveling, it's almost the perfect laptop replacement. And as a combo cellphone laptop? I couldn't ask for better. My overall data usage has also dropped, because I'm using far more wireless on this device (I want to make sure it's connected for the stability if nothing else), but I can always drop out to a cell connection if no wireless is available - or if I don't feel like paying the stupid prices at the hotel the convention is being held at.
Now for the Cons:
I've really only got two, one of which was mentioned here. The damn thing is not cheap. Since I live in the states, the LTE version is not available directly. You need to pick up an international version from amazon or another reputable source. Hence the reason I have a kb with extra non-english symbols on it. Not that I mind, but it confuses some people when they look at it. When I picked mine up, the tablet kb and handset ran about $900 US all together. so not something you want to accidentally brick, or drop, or leave behind in a restaurant....
The second one is convenience. Given that it is a tablet - and a fairly large one, most people aren't going to go the phone replacement route like I did. You can't exactly just slip it into your pants pocket. And since the handset is BT, you can't exactly leave the tablet in the car and just use the handset inside most restaurants either (unless you park really close to the building). I'll often leave mine at home if all I do is run to the store for a dozen eggs or something, just because it's easier not to pack it up. But then half an hour of being unconnected and out of touch doesn't bother me - it might bother some though.
So there you have it, a much less technical review, from yet another satisfied user.

begalund said:
I'd picked up a Z4T about 4 months ago to replace two different devices, my aging and finally dead cell phone (I hung on to my old Samsung S3 for way too long), and my laptop, which is a still functional but extraordinarily heavy beast of a 17" macbook - about 6 years old on its own as well. What can I say, they were still working so why buy new?
I have to say I'm very glad I made the purchase. I picked up a SBH52 handset to make phone calls more convenient, and splurged on the sony docking kb for the added ruggedness of using it as a "case" - which it does like a champ. Calls are nice and clear, and I've had pretty much no troubles - aside from some occasional static when using the handset (which I owe to the handset itself being a bit flaky). Even with an unlocked BL, remote play on my PS4 still works, only the Bravia screen mirroring to my TV is kaput. It serves very well as a laptop for those like me that need something lightweight for overnight trips, let with a big enough screen to be able to remote desktop troubleshoot back to the main office.
Would this replace every computer I own? Obviously not. I still own a high end desktop for videos, games, and intense word processing (the sony kb is just a bit small if you were attempting to write a novel for example); and my PS4 for console games; but for light end use and for traveling, it's almost the perfect laptop replacement. And as a combo cellphone laptop? I couldn't ask for better. My overall data usage has also dropped, because I'm using far more wireless on this device (I want to make sure it's connected for the stability if nothing else), but I can always drop out to a cell connection if no wireless is available - or if I don't feel like paying the stupid prices at the hotel the convention is being held at.
Now for the Cons:
I've really only got two, one of which was mentioned here. The damn thing is not cheap. Since I live in the states, the LTE version is not available directly. You need to pick up an international version from amazon or another reputable source. Hence the reason I have a kb with extra non-english symbols on it. Not that I mind, but it confuses some people when they look at it. When I picked mine up, the tablet kb and handset ran about $900 US all together. so not something you want to accidentally brick, or drop, or leave behind in a restaurant....
The second one is convenience. Given that it is a tablet - and a fairly large one, most people aren't going to go the phone replacement route like I did. You can't exactly just slip it into your pants pocket. And since the handset is BT, you can't exactly leave the tablet in the car and just use the handset inside most restaurants either (unless you park really close to the building). I'll often leave mine at home if all I do is run to the store for a dozen eggs or something, just because it's easier not to pack it up. But then half an hour of being unconnected and out of touch doesn't bother me - it might bother some though.
So there you have it, a much less technical review, from yet another satisfied user.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for sharing

So I am coming to this device from the Nvidia Shield Tablet and I love the device thus far for all of the positive reasons mentioned. Also with respect to screen brightness listed as a con my own experience is that it is much better than what I was coming from.
The battery life is truly great with this device and my needs are small when it comes to the development area. I simply need it to be rooted because I prefer to remove all of googles garbage that I don't use and rooting and bootloader unlock was very simple.
All in all I am really liking this device, had it about 10 days now. I have the LTE version but only because I may use it at some point.
Overall very pleased with the device so far.

ThePhoneGeek said:
So I am coming to this device from the Nvidia Shield Tablet and I love the device thus far for all of the positive reasons mentioned. Also with respect to screen brightness listed as a con my own experience is that it is much better than what I was coming from.
The battery life is truly great with this device and my needs are small when it comes to the development area. I simply need it to be rooted because I prefer to remove all of googles garbage that I don't use and rooting and bootloader unlock was very simple.
All in all I am really liking this device, had it about 10 days now. I have the LTE version but only because I may use it at some point.
Overall very pleased with the device so far.
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Click to collapse
I was seriously considering the Shield because of the dev scene and the price. What made you switch?

jelbo said:
I was seriously considering the Shield because of the dev scene and the price. What made you switch?
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The device itself just isn't very efficient on battery and I needed something with a slightly larger screen. It does ok but it's really designed more as a gaming device IMO which wasn't what I needed. Also the specs are a bit outdated now.

I noticed in the op that he said being a non eu customer when unlocking bootloader they will notice. Im an eu user, does this mean that they wont notice if I try claim warranty after bootloader unlock? I havent unlocked yet but I was getting slow WiFi and disconnections. I really want root but im not sure about this WiFi issue I set the WiFi to turn off at sleep and it seems better also the issues are caused less im concerned what would you guys do? ive sent it off to Sony once already they said nothing was wrong with wifi. Can someone help me decide? Much appreciated, many thanks.