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I ****ed up today!!! Forgot to empty my pockets and now my wildfire is in the washinmachine! Couldnt stop the f-ckin machine and watched my clothes in a 60min-programe. When finally the program was finished, the stupid lid could not open. And I were in a hurry to get to my workingplace. Now the wildfire is in the washingmachine until I come home.
Probably the phone is as dead as Michael Jacksson!
Is there any way maybe to rescue my phone after this treatment? Hairfan? Oven? Element for drying?...something?
I really like this wildfireforum and you guys writing here, so want my phone back!
Akerhage said:
I ****ed up today!!! Forgot to empty my pockets and now my wildfire is in the washinmachine! Couldnt stop the f-ckin machine and watched my clothes in a 60min-programe. When finally the program was finished, the stupid lid could not open. And I were in a hurry to get to my workingplace. Now the wildfire is in the washingmachine until I come home.
Probably the phone is as dead as Michael Jacksson!
Is there any way maybe to rescue my phone after this treatment? Hairfan? Oven? Element for drying?...something?
I really like this wildfireforum and you guys writing here, so want my phone back!
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Put of Battery and place it at a heating. put between them a paper cloth!
Wait a few days and pray
Deep-Knight said:
Put of Battery and place it at a heating. put between them a paper cloth!
Wait a few days and pray
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should I only put the battery on the heatingelement? or the whole phone?
Should I maybe wash it in water first to get rid of eventually rests from the machine? (sorry for my swedish-english writing here;p)
Ouch, nasty. After a full cycle in the washer I wouldn't hold much hope but it is worth trying the old rice trick.
Take the battery out of the phone and put the phone in to a bowl (or bag) of UNCOOKED rice (it doesnt really work if the rice is cooked lol) and leave it overnight. The dry rice soaks all moisture out of the phone making sure it is completely dry without heating it up (and possibly damaging it more).
http://hacknmod.com/hack/diy-save-a-wet-cell-phone-using-rice/
This is what happened to my sony phone lol, except I left it overnight in the wash.
kevin2516 said:
This is what happened to my sony phone lol, except I left it overnight in the wash.
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I had a SE W995 before and took a shower with that one, therefore I bought this one...I really think I should awoid water for the rest of my life!!
Will try the radiator l8er!!
Akerhage said:
should I only put the battery on the heatingelement? or the whole phone?
Should I maybe wash it in water first to get rid of eventually rests from the machine? (sorry for my swedish-english writing here;p)
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the whole phone without battery. rice idea sound also good. but wait a few days ,not only a few hours.
Deep-Knight said:
the whole phone without battery. rice idea sound also good. but wait a few days ,not only a few hours.
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I will wait until monday, hoping for the survival of my dear wildfire!
Akerhage said:
Will try the radiator l8er!!
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I wouldn't use a radiator! Just the heat alone could kill your phone.
Hpez said:
I wouldn't use a radiator! Just the heat alone could kill your phone.
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Okay, should I just let it be in roomtemperature then?
Akerhage said:
Okay, should I just let it be in roomtemperature then?
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Just put the phone in a bowl of dry rice at room temperature and leave it overnight, or maybe even a day or so. The rice will pull the water out of the phone without any need for heat.
should I just put the phone on the rice or put the rise under and over the phone? So that the phone is covered on all sides, lying in the middle of the bowl?
Akerhage said:
should I just put the phone on the rice or put the rise under and over the phone? So that the phone is covered on all sides, lying in the middle of the bowl?
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Click to collapse
Put it in the rice, so it is completely covered.
Hpez said:
Put it in the rice, so it is completely covered.
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sweet, will try that when I come home then =)
Or you take pure alcohol and soak it
(few hours, but very IMPORTANT >99% purity !)
Afterwards dry it for several days <-- do not heat it, just dry it
Disclaimer: Works since it is pure simple chemistry, but I never dared to do it so far
If the rice method doesn't work, and if you got some experience in electronics, try opening your phone up and look if any vital components are harmed...
ebioman said:
Or you take pure alcohol and soak it
Disclaimer: Should work, but I never dared to do it so far
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Will try the rice first, sounds less risky
The only problem with soaking in alcohol is that it can dissolve any glues used within the phone itself. But if nothing else works it might be worth trying as a very last resort.
Seriously it will not do any harm as long as you really use 99% + purity.
The problem is remaining humidity leading to oxidation (corrision) of your contacts. Alcohol is a solvent and therefore water free. It will "take up" the humidity and afterwards evaporate.
I guess the major problem is that exept for me not a lot of people here work in a laboratory and have easy acess to a liter of 99,99% pure alcohol.....
isnt there anything called batterywater? Maybe that workes? Think I can buy that on statoil and similar places?
<---- Idiot jus dropped his epic in sum water & of course it's not working!! I dried it out w/ a towel & blow dryer after it happened. When I connect the battery the keyboard keys still lights up, but when I press the power button all I hear is a ringing type noise (sounds like a fan spinning) and no bootup. I cannot boot into CWM or Download mode either. Has anyone experienced this or found a solution w/o having to replace the whole phone.
** Also, my battery has the red marking on the top of it stating it's been wet.
EDIT: If I plug in my usb the LED light comes on, but it's blue & my phone was @ 80% when I dropped it.
Thanks in advance!!
UPDATE: [ I couldn't wait the 48 hours!! (36 Hours) -- LoL ] I just removed my phone/battery from the rice bags & everything is working!! Yes, even the battery is good @ 72%!! I can't believe it worked!! Thanks Matrix!! And thanks to everyone for your great suggestions!! This phone is truely EPIC!!
Turn it off and remove the battery now!!! Do not put the battery back in.
You're going to mess it up by turning it on when things are shorting out!
Take the battery and the phone. Put them (separately) in a zip lock bag full of rice. Wait a day or two. Then try it out.
PS: Everyone should ingrain themselves in this reflex: If your phone hits water, remove the battery NOW. Do the rice trick, and try it later. Resist the urge to see if it still works.
Thanks for your quick replay & suggestion matrix!!
I am currently trying your method, but I'm hoping I didn't further short anything on the circuit board by trying to get it to work earlier.. It sounds like a good plan because the rice will absorb the water and probably be ready for consumption in a day or two!! LoL
Forget the bag of rice, you need to take the phone apart immediately, to the last screw and board and wipe down everything with alcohol and blow it out and dry it with a hair dryer. Otherwise even if you get it to work in a couple of days, corrosion will start to build up on the contacts of various things inside and you'll end up having to get another phone.
And this is why that extra $7.00 a month is worth it.
hdnet1 said:
Otherwise even if you get it to work in a couple of days, corrosion will start to build up on the contacts of various things inside and you'll end up having to get another phone.
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Forget about taking it apart... you're garonteed t miss somthing and the corrosion will kill it anyways. I know for a fact
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
hdnet1 said:
Forget the bag of rice, you need to take the phone apart immediately, to the last screw and board and wipe down everything with alcohol and blow it out and dry it with a hair dryer. Otherwise even if you get it to work in a couple of days, corrosion will start to build up on the contacts of various things inside and you'll end up having to get another phone.
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Soo .. which 1 should I do?? They both sound right to me!! I checked on YouTube & I seen a vid about using the rice technique, but no vid about completely taking it apart to dry off the components??
styckx said:
And this is why that extra $7.00 a month is worth it.
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I do have the warranty -- Doesn't water damage void it?? They can tell by the red marking on the battery.
No, just means you gotta pay them whatever the current fee is for water damaged phones. Used to be 50 bucks, but I think the crooks doubled it. As for taking it apart, forget about that nonsense. Bag of rice for a couple days, take it out, if it boots up you are fine.
muyoso said:
No, just means you gotta pay them whatever the current fee is for water damaged phones. Used to be 50 bucks, but I think the crooks doubled it. As for taking it apart, forget about that nonsense. Bag of rice for a couple days, take it out, if it boots up you are fine.
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Cool .. I really didn't wanna take it apart. I would have prob did more damage to it!! LoL I will wait out the 2 days & post back w/ an update then.
Thank you all for your help!!
CRC Mass Air Sensor Cleaner
You can find it at auto parts stores, its an electrical component cleaner that displaces water, removes grime, grease, corrosion and dries with no residue.
You have to take it apart to use it and don't get it on plastic stuff. CRC makes several different electrical component cleaners and some of them will eat plastic so be careful with it.
Saved my Sprint Hero with this stuff after it landed in a puddle and spent about two minutes fully submerged in the water before I found where it landed. Luckily I was home, ran inside, took it apart and grabbed a can of CRC I had in the garage on a whim.
Granted, I never tried turning it back on while it was still wet, that is often the killer for wet electronics.
Just figure that its dead, whatever you do to it at this point isn't going to hurt it anymore but I would HIGHLY recommend taking it apart to make sure you get all the moisture out of it. I don't put much faith in the rice trick
D`Nyed said:
CRC Mass Air Sensor Cleaner
You can find it at auto parts stores, its an electrical component cleaner that displaces water, removes grime, grease, corrosion and dries with no residue.
You have to take it apart to use it and don't get it on plastic stuff. CRC makes several different electrical component cleaners and some of them will eat plastic so be careful with it.
Saved my Sprint Hero with this stuff after it landed in a puddle and spent about two minutes fully submerged in the water before I found where it landed. Luckily I was home, ran inside, took it apart and grabbed a can of CRC I had in the garage on a whim.
Granted, I never tried turning it back on while it was still wet, that is often the killer for wet electronics.
Just figure that its dead, whatever you do to it at this point isn't going to hurt it anymore but I would HIGHLY recommend taking it apart to make sure you get all the moisture out of it. I don't put much faith in the rice trick
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Click to collapse
True, it prob is near dead at this point. I will try this solution if the rice trick doesn't work tomorrow. Hopefully, one of these solutions work out!! Thanks for your input!!
It's def dead if u already tried to turn it on.
Just tell them you dropped it off the side of a boat.......then you wont have to show it to them
My buddy dropped his epic4g in the toilet bowl, he was paying insurance ($7.99 a month.) He did the samethings you did and did the rice trick and nope didn't work. Ended up calling sprint and spending 150 I think for a replacement phone.
- Its just going to be Epic!
Silica Gel packs are better than rice if you have any of those.
BUMP!! Please read my update to my OP!! Rice is the not only good for eating!! LoL
On my last day on holiday I forgot to take my phone out of my pocket before going to the swimming pool. Now it's soaked and looks bricked. Does anyone knows if there it's a chance of it working after it's dried up.
If the phone was off and the battery was removed as soon as possible. Another major factor is how pure the water is - sea water will kill your phone unless you wash it out with water with no (or as almost none) salts in it.
The phone was to be allowed suffient time to dry out. Placing it under a gentle heat (ie near a lamp) and with those silicon bags that it equipment comes with or with rice. You are normally talking about a week for drying out time.
I've heard of dripping wet phones drying out and being okay, so it's a possibility.
There's all the usual airing cupboard/bowl of rice/little crystal packs you get in your trainers/bag of salt suggestions, but I think the most prominent one is to be 100% sure that ALL moisture has gone before you try turning it on again.
Have a search through the forums, and not just this phone as this is obviously not a phone specific problem. There's plenty of advice out there.
Good luck mate - I hope you get it working again.
TA123 said:
On my last day on holiday I forgot to take my phone out of my pocket before going to the swimming pool. Now it's soaked and looks bricked. Does anyone knows if there it's a chance of it working after it's dried up.
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Click to collapse
open the back panel take evry thing out
dray it
dray the phone from back with an hair dryer with medium heat
for one hour
put it outside in the open for 4 hours
again one hour with hair dryer
and pray a lot
this is what save my nokia n95 ....so be optimistic
In my case I was saving a child from drowning ...so maybe it was an angel that thought it is not a good day to kill my phone
(try doing a good thing before the process)
good LUCK
20min is a long time for the phone to be in the water
It will also depend on if the phone was on or off when it went for a dip.
if it was off, there is a small chance it could be ok, leave it for a week to air and then cross your fingers.
if it was on, id take a guess that your goose is cooked.
sorry to hear bud.
Thanks a lot for all support! Well the phone was on :-( but the water was fresh. Anyway we have already checked out so no access to a hair dryer. Rice is not available until we're back to England this evening. Will report back if the phone survives.
Dissamble your phone completly (tutorial on youtube), place the mobo in a oven @ 100 degrees C for 5 a 10 min
Try first to dry your board with a hairdryer
I once fixed a friends (cough) iphone that was full of dirty water. Stripped it down, put the main components in clean water to wash it out, then put in a 50 degree oven for an hour. Left if over night then reassembled. Worked a treat afterwards, so there is hope. The secret is to give it plenty of time to dry out.
Use distilled water to rinse. Or even better, isopropanol; no baking needed.
Sent from my GT-I9100M using XDA App
it looks it's fried :-( I disassembled it and dried up but it does not show any signs of life. Will try to call my travel insurance company tomorrow to see if it's covered.
hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahah
LMAO!
TRULY SORRY for loss, but your story cracks me up.
ops.. use rice for save it.
emeky said:
ops.. use rice for save it.
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It was covered with rice for the whole night without any results
U need to cover it with rice and put it in an box u can close so no air would come in
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
just_nos said:
U need to cover it with rice and put it in an box u can close so no air would come in
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
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it should be perfectly dry after everything that has been done to it.
I would be tempted to take it apart and leave it for a week it 2 to dry out. There's a good chance it will work again as long as you don't turn it on while its still wet. If it was salt water or water with chlorine wash the phone with clean water well while in pieces. It shouldn't cause any damage doing this. Its best to remove all salt & chlorine as to prevent long term damage.
Sorry to be the dictionary police but its kinda a habit of mine, swimmed with makes no sense, I think you were aiming for swam.
Sorry about your phone dude, I know its a pain when it happens. Good luck with it all.
yusuo said:
Sorry to be the dictionary police but its kinda a habit of mine, swimmed with makes no sense, I think you were aiming for swam.
Sorry about your phone dude, I know its a pain when it happens. Good luck with it all.
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Oh, I was so heart-broken to watch my grammar
TA123 said:
it should be perfectly dry after everything that has been done to it.
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It takes a Minimum of 2 weeks to cure a water damaged phone. If it has salt in it, it wont work at all. IN such a case you should have rewashed it with clean water. You also need to keep it air tight with DRY rice inside a airtight box for 1 to 2 weeks. This will make sure all the fluids are extracted from the machine.
It can feel dry, but it does not mean it actually is. Also, DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT charge the phone with the battery in it after a water accident for the first time again.
Well, both of my insurance policies explicitly exclude mobile phones .
So it is now like either the phone will survive or I will have to use my old Hero for the next 12 months.
So I washed it again to make sure no chlorine left and put it in a tightly closed box with a lot of yummy rice
Anyway, I do not hold my breath. I think I fried it when I thought it is dry and was trying to switch it on.
Knocked it off the counter while washing my hands.
What do I do? I'm freaking out right now, I picked it up as soon as it fell in so it wasn't in the water for more than a couple seconds.
The water marker thingy turned red and I shook the phone and I can hear water inside of it. I dried it out the best I could and pulled the battery immediately.
Basically without this phone, I'm dead.
Please help!
Put it in a vat of rice for a long time (maybe even a week) DO IT NOWWW.
placing it in the rice is a good idea, it absorbs water pretty well.
could also try to take it apart piece by piece and absorb the water with cotton swabs.
blackalice said:
Put it in a vat of rice for a long time (maybe even a week) DO IT NOWWW.
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+1 on rice! and dont try to turn it on! Saved my iphone once
blackalice said:
Put it in a vat of rice for a long time (maybe even a week) DO IT NOWWW.
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I put it in a tupperware filled with rice and closed the lid. Does that work? A whole week?! I need my phone for this weekend. =/
EDIT: Do I submerge my phone in the rice or just let it chill on top?
Submerge towards the middle of the container.
m0n3y0n7r335 said:
I put it in a tupperware filled with rice and closed the lid. Does that work? A whole week?! I need my phone for this weekend. =/
EDIT: Do I submerge my phone in the rice or just let it chill on top?
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Click to collapse
the whole phone in the middle of the rice.
if you need your phone sooner, take it apart piece by piece. use cotton swabs to absorb the water, and isopropyl alcohol to clean up any contacts after you finish drying it out
use the ifixit guide found here: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Motorola-Atrix-4G-Teardown/4964/1
Auxilium said:
Submerge towards the middle of the container.
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And if rice gets into the little ports? No big deal? Thank God I'm Asian and I have so much rice sitting around the house its not even funny.
m0n3y0n7r335 said:
I put it in a tupperware filled with rice and closed the lid. Does that work? A whole week?! I need my phone for this weekend. =/
EDIT: Do I submerge my phone in the rice or just let it chill on top?
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Click to collapse
Some say 24 hours will do it - make sure you have the cover off, the battery out, and the SIM out. It's really your call.
m0n3y0n7r335 said:
And if rice gets into the little ports? No big deal? Thank God I'm Asian and I have so much rice sitting around the house its not even funny.
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Lmao...
Nice
blackalice said:
Some say 24 hours will do it - make sure you have the cover off, the battery out, and the SIM out. It's really your call.
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I guess I'll leave it in for 48 hours. Should I put it in the sunlight?
Also, how bad is it that I could hear water inside the phone when I shook it? At least I wasn't using the bathroom..that would have been awful. I think I would've just trashed it if that was the case haha.
Another question, should I attempt to take my phone apart?
m0n3y0n7r335 said:
Another question, should I attempt to take my phone apart?
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Click to collapse
only if you're comfortable with taking electronics apart. the trickiest part is to get the screen out without trashing your digitizer. if i dropped my phone in water, i would do the rice trick and then take it apart afterwards to make sure every bit of water is out of there.
as long as you don't try to run a current through it, i.e., turn it on, all things you can do will help.
Many have said, "Take it apart." Your phone, your risk, your call.
That said, I sure would!
Okay well I just realized I don't own a T5 Torx ScrewDriver. I think I'll probably just let it sit. How long do you guys recommend? Is 48 hours enough or should I wait longer? And should I leave it outside in the sunlight? Omg I'm still freaking out, so much of my life is on that thing. D:
EDIT: Also, what do I do with the battery that I took out and the sim card? The battery wasn't too wet but the sim card had some water on it that I dried off.
I'd keep those in the rice as well, just to be safe.
the battery and sim card are solid state components, simply drying them off should do fine.
So how long do you recommend I keep it in rice and should I keep the container outside in the sunlight?
m0n3y0n7r335 said:
I guess I'll leave it in for 48 hours. Should I put it in the sunlight?
Also, how bad is it that I could hear water inside the phone when I shook it? At least I wasn't using the bathroom..that would have been awful. I think I would've just trashed it if that was the case haha.
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I would avoid sunlight ... I hear putting it in a jar of rice can help dry a phone out, i know a few people who have had that work for them...
Random Canadian said:
I would avoid sunlight ... I hear putting it in a jar of rice can help dry a phone out, i know a few people who have had that work for them...
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Oh I've already put it in a tupperware filled with rice. I was wondering if I should put the container with the phone in sunlight.
First I have to say, this is the first phone i have had for a year and it still looks like almost new
This morning when my alarm on my phone screamed at me to get out of bed, i accidentally tipped over a full glass of water that i had next to my bed, all the water got on my phone and my phone died (at first), i removed the battery as fast as i could and noticed that the "moist-markings" (?) on the phone and the battery had turned from white to red..
and it still works..
well ok, i used my mouth to blow very hard into the phone to get the water to disappear, but i never disassembled it or anything to dry it.. i have been using the phone all day and still can't find any malfunction :S Did i have an incredible amount of luck or is the G2/DZ waterproofed in any way?
The phone is in no way waterproof. But I've seen other folks on here that have had luck after getting their phones wet (even complete immersion), then had them come back to life after drying them out. Removing the battery quickly is definitely key.
I think you just got lucky, and water did not yet get to any places that could cause a short circuit and permanently damage the phone. I'd let the thing dry out as much as you can for a day or 2 (rice in bag trick seems to work wonders). At least dry it while you are sleeping. You never know, there can be some water hiding somewhere in there, that can still mess things up by flowing into the wrong place.
You, my friend, just have incredible luck.
The G2 is not waterproofed. I accidentally dropped mine into a glass of water, and let's just say, it did not fare so well... The screen colors went wonky, it stopped responding to touch, and half the keyboard keys stopped working.
Needless to say, I didn't get a warranty replacement on that one! (Thank goodness for insurance.)
Take the battery out of the phone and put it in a sealed bag of uncooked rice. This will draw moisture out of the device.
You're extremely lucky that it works currently, but you may get future problems from corrosion with any water that got into the device. You should give it a couple days in rice to pull out what moisture you can.
martonikaj said:
Take the battery out of the phone and put it in a sealed bag of uncooked rice. This will draw moisture out of the device.
You're extremely lucky that it works currently, but you may get future problems from corrosion with any water that got into the device. You should give it a couple days in rice to pull out what moisture you can.
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Click to collapse
X2. Rice works wonders!
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
Dessicant work better lol. www.ifixit.com has awesome bags fire just such emergencies. If you do go the rice route, put the phone in a panty hose our something similar or you well have rice dust in your phone forever! Lol
Okay, ex cell tech here... (oh God not him again! ) you were lucky because it was water. Soda or juice kills and rusts much quicker plus sugary residue left behind. I recommend taking it apart and scrubing all components you can with an old toothbrush and alcohol. Hand sanitizer will do just use it more sporatically. The problem is, what someone meantioned before, is the corrsive action that takes place after drying. It may happen a month later but it will unless you take it appart and dry it out. The bag of rice is okay but if you want to be 100% safe, take it appart. The warranty is void anyways, no worries. There are a few good guides on disassembly.
Good luck! Excuse my spelling... in a hurry.
I've done this for well over 200 phones and had about 70% success rate. Rice is good if you're not technical but if you want to be positive... take it apart and scrub away. The alcohol will dry up components and remove any corrusive buildup forming. Let us know how it goes...
sino8r said:
Okay, ex cell tech here... (oh God not him again! ) you were lucky because it was water. Soda or juice kills and rusts much quicker plus sugary residue left behind. I recommend taking it apart and scrubing all components you can with an old toothbrush and alcohol. Hand sanitizer will do just use it more sporatically. The problem is, what someone meantioned before, is the corrsive action that takes place after drying. It may happen a month later but it will unless you take it appart and dry it out. The bag of rice is okay but if you want to be 100% safe, take it appart. The warranty is void anyways, no worries. There are a few good guides on disassembly.
Good luck! Excuse my spelling... in a hurry.
I've done this for well over 200 phones and had about 70% success rate. Rice is good if you're not technical but if you want to be positive... take it apart and scrub away. The alcohol will dry up components and remove any corrusive buildup forming. Let us know how it goes...
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Click to collapse
I'm an avionics tech myself, while alcohol works wonders and it is the sure fire way, I reccomend the bag of rice trick mostly because not everyone is like us and wants to completly disemble they're cell. And a bag of rice is a no brainer lol. So long as you put it in rice and leave it in for a few days promptly after the incident you should be ok.
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
ptesmoke said:
I'm an avionics tech myself, while alcohol works wonders and it is the sure fire way, I reccomend the bag of rice trick mostly because not everyone is like us and wants to completly disemble they're cell. And a bag of rice is a no brainer lol. So long as you put it in rice and leave it in for a few days promptly after the incident you should be ok.
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, you're right. To me and you, its just removing a few T5 screws and unhooking a few ribbon wires. The rice is good enough. Just be sure to pull the battery, sim, and sd card. Powered on device could make it corrode faster...
sino8r said:
Okay, ex cell tech here... (oh God not him again! ) you were lucky because it was water. Soda or juice kills and rusts much quicker plus sugary residue left behind. I recommend taking it apart and scrubing all components you can with an old toothbrush and alcohol. Hand sanitizer will do just use it more sporatically. The problem is, what someone meantioned before, is the corrsive action that takes place after drying. It may happen a month later but it will unless you take it appart and dry it out. The bag of rice is okay but if you want to be 100% safe, take it appart. The warranty is void anyways, no worries. There are a few good guides on disassembly.
Good luck! Excuse my spelling... in a hurry.
I've done this for well over 200 phones and had about 70% success rate. Rice is good if you're not technical but if you want to be positive... take it apart and scrub away. The alcohol will dry up components and remove any corrusive buildup forming. Let us know how it goes...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thus is what I do for my phones, and customers phones.
Wow you're lucky! But indeed don't expect it to be safe if you never got it dry in the first place. In fact yuo should follow all the advise in this topic before ever powering it on again! Anyway do it .
Exanimus said:
First I have to say, this is the first phone i have had for a year and it still looks like almost new
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Click to collapse
I think about buying second-hand phones after I opened a beer with my "almost new" DZ...