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Hey guys, I'm new to the Android community and I'm completely in love with it now that I had the phone for several weeks. Like every other phone I get, I'm always eager to customize it in all the ways possible.
So here is my question, rooting seems simple enough with the great guides you guys have here. However, I've heard that Android 2.2 is right around the corner with new great features. I read that if you upgrade your firmware, it will un-root your phone back to stock.
I'm already hungry to try the new features that a rooted phone can do but I'm thinking that this update is worth waiting for since this phone is new anyways.
Any opinions?
Steps for success:
1. Root phone.
2. Wait for 2.2.
3. Download a 2.2 rom with root.
Were would I find the rooted roms?
DynamicXL said:
Were would I find the rooted roms?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the development section.
Its a file you can find . Its not a rom. Your phone will still get the ota even after you root it. Can't say the same for custom roms
Sent using xda app...
Cool, thanks for the quick responds guys.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Absolutely ROOT. I have some things to do once rooted in the sticky, please let me know if you have suggestions.
Rooting have nothing to do with ota update but flashing a customer rom will.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I'm thinking of rooting. My battery life is a joke. The only thing I miss about Nexus One besides trackball notifications.
nick_karstedt said:
Steps for success:
1. Root phone.
2. Wait for 2.2.
3. Download a 2.2 rom with root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i second this
Yeah, I think I'm going to root my phone soon. Thanks for the help!
Fuse8499 said:
I'm thinking of rooting. My battery life is a joke. The only thing I miss about Nexus One besides trackball notifications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure how rooting your phone is going to solve your battery issues? All that rooting does is give you root (superuser) permissions on your phone. You can do this to remove the bloatware that came preinstalled on the phone, run various apps that require root. But I can't think of any way that it's going to allow you to save battery life that you couldn't already do non-rooted.
My only reason to root was for wifi-tethering...
I know the newer version of Facebook is a battery eater. I switched back to the older style and my phone is happy again.
Root is great.
1. Remove bloat apps
2. Remove the annoying T-mobile jingle
3. Root Explorer is fun to play with
I think thats all I've really done so far. Well I should that I've wanted to really do so far.
Rooting isn't working for me otherwise I would have to agree :-(
^ could you give a little more detail, so we can help?
Do you have the update file named update.zip.zip by accident?
I pretty much had the same question. But after a little reading just now I actually understand what rooting is. Helps that I'm familiar with linux! Attempting to root in 5 4 3...
Sent from my SGH-T959 Samsung Vibrant using XDA App w/swype
So if you don't have a data plan you can't get the ota update? You must root? Mine is on AT&T with no data plan right now.
Isn't there much more to rooting then apps and root control? I've seen all the custome ROMs people get to customize the phone and theme just about everything.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
s15274n said:
^ could you give a little more detail, so we can help?
Do you have the update file named update.zip.zip by accident?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I just Have a file named update.zip. I have tried two different methods twice now and once I'm in recovery and go to flash the zip it says it isn't there. I don't know what it is I'm doing wrong.
Sent from my awesome Vibrant using XDA App
So I rooted my phone earlier today. It was unbelievably easy to get the whole set up going.
Haven't had much time to fool around with it yet except for several apps that require root access, mainly to flash and back up my data in case of an oops.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
So I just got the droid 2 (had the droid 1). I bought this new phone and obviously wanted to root it like my old phone. See the ROMs that people have made, etc. I got root access and used root explorer to delete some system stuff (bloatware, etc.) and restarted and did that again (proving I had perm root). I flashed, or so I thought, the new recovery using rom manager and restarted holding x. Yeah... stock recovery. WTF? Am I missing something? Is my root broken? Bueller?!
Ou have to use droid 2 bootstrap
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using XDA App
so then how do you install a custom rom? everytime i try the update.zip method i get stuck in bootloops. if clockworkmod cant get into recovery then it cant do the update by its method (the easy method).
Ok, so I'm not sure what exactly is going on. Your stuck in a bootloop?
If so, then use the SBF to get back to factory stock. Follow the directions here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=770224
The link to the SBF there is broken i believe, but you can find it here:
hxxp://www.droid-life.com/2010/11/01/droid-2-sbf-released-for-2-3-20-update/ (replace xx with tt obviously)
Then reroot and instead of using ROM manager, just get Koush's bootstrap recovery to get to clockworkmod recovery. Once the apk is installed, hit bootstrap recovery, give su access, and then once it says successful, hit reboot recovery.
Be sure your ROM is on your sdcard.
Before you flash the ROM, you need to mount /data and /system. You also need to wipe data and cache (be sure you remount /data and /system after this)
Then go to install zip from sdcard. Then hit choose zip from sdcard. Find your ROM and flash away. Hope this helps
Forget what you know about the D1. The D2 is an entirely different device. Read the installs to roms don't just flash because you think you know how to do it. You can't use ROM manager without koush's bootstrap first. I've never had ROM manager ever because koush's bootstrap does everything you need to flash ROMs and what not on the D2 because moto locked it's bootloader.
Clockwork from the bootstrap won't take out stock recovery we can only access it after the phone boots a little then we can hijack the boot and get into clockwork.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
Will the bootloader ever be unlocked? I like being able to access nandroid without booting the phone. It gives me a sense of security. Damn moto for doing this. Why dont they allow rom hacking? Do they fear security issues or hidden exploits? ITS FREAKIN CREATIVITY. and its spawns new developers...
Well someone commented on a Motorola YouTube video about the locked bootloader, and Motorola told them if they want to load roms and the like to buy a different brand phone. Then Moto came out with an official statement saying they were sorry for the comment and that they will be looking into more dev friendly bootloaders in the future. I doubt the D2 will ever see this though. I'll bet it will only effect new phones.
Oh thats what that whole scandal was about. I heard about that. And the motorola spokesperson answered something like "buy a different phone cuz rooting isnt for this one". Could motorola possibly change the bootloader OTA? I would like them to...
Maxidax said:
Oh thats what that whole scandal was about. I heard about that. And the motorola spokesperson answered something like "buy a different phone cuz rooting isnt for this one". Could motorola possibly change the bootloader OTA? I would like them to...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure if they could, but I doubt they would
Sent from my ultra fast Liberated Droid 2
Why is that? I mean a bootloader can't be that difficult to create. Especially if the idea is to make it more simple. On the other hand, does anyone think devolopers will unlock the bootloader?
Sent from my DROID2
The bootloader will never be cracked. Period. And motorola may change it on future devices but its not gunna change on the x or 2. Like motorola said if you want to root and install roms get a different device.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
Now are you just being pessimistic or realistic? Why would it never be cracked? People probably thought that about nand lock at first...
Sent from my DROID2
miketoasty said:
The bootloader will never be cracked. Period. And motorola may change it on future devices but its not gunna change on the x or 2. Like motorola said if you want to root and install roms get a different device.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well they got that part wrong. We can root and flash roms. Just can't do anything with kernels and the like.... truely sad to hold this device back like that...
Sent from my ultra fast Liberated Droid 2
So in response I will rephrase my question. If we have come this far. Would you say that the Droid 2 is a project in progress or that developers have gone as far as they can.
Sent from my DROID2
Maxidax said:
So in response I will rephrase my question. If we have come this far. Would you say that the Droid 2 is a project in progress or that developers have gone as far as they can.
Sent from my DROID2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I'm not dev and have limited knowledge, but I would say there isn't too much more they can do besides refine their awesome ROMs. Hopefully in future devices, Motorola will give us a way to unlock the bootloader, or they could be loosing big business.
I think I might email fabulous or some other 2/X dev. I really would like to know if its just a software lock that hasn't been... well unlocked. Or something is actually virtually impossible to change. I really don't wanna switch services to get a nice slider android with a decent cpu.
Sent from my DROID2
Maxidax said:
I think I might email fabulous or some other 2/X dev. I really would like to know if its just a software lock that hasn't been... well unlocked. Or something is actually virtually impossible to change. I really don't wanna switch services to get a nice slider android with a decent cpu.
Sent from my DROID2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Motorola has actually put a chip called the "efuse" inside the phones that locks down the bootloader. They may be able to disable it through a firmware update, but I'm not sure.
Thanks for pointing me to efuse. That seems really annoying... I don't really see the benefit in using a chip like that. Outside of intentionally preventing unauthorized roms. How unfortunate...
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
They probably do it to prevent idiots from attempting to mess with the phone's entrails (if you will) and then howling when they mess something up and demanding a free replacement phone.
true that. I would probably cry too if I didn't know how to sbf. I don't even see how its possible to "brick" a phone unless you're a dev that's actually creating something new. Its hard to hose your /system. This stupid locked bootloader does make it a bit more heartbreaking when you get a bootloop. I hate praying for the recovery after a battery pull... why can't I just hit "x"! :'(
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
Followup to this msg: We have enough volunteers. I just need to work thru some issues with jcase before we start testing. Please be patient.
Good news everyone...
About 8 days ago I rooted my TB -without-losing-ANYTHING-.
I'd like to get a few volunteers to try the procedure before I make it public...
Anyone with an UN-rooted phone who's willing to be a guinea pig, please PM me. Ideal volunteers would be moderately tech-savvy and not have anything on their phone that would be catastrophic if it were lost.
You'd also be a good candidate to help getting this procedure worked out if you just want to root your phone and don't care if you lose anything...
If you're wondering why I don't just post it, I had several false starts (kept getting interrupted because I didn't allow enough time) and then didn't take detailed notes on the final run where I managed to finish it. I want the instructions to be fairly solid before I throw anyone with critical phone data into the procedure.
I hope you understand and will be patient while I get this properly documented...
We already have root?
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
superchilpil said:
We already have root?
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The current root removes all of your data, he's saying he found a way to do it and not lose any data.
superchilpil said:
We already have root?
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes....but he's looking for testers who possibly won't lose any data, apps, etc., by going to root from stock.
We have root, but any process, automated or manual...will put the phone back to 100% stock and remove any and all user info.
superchilpil said:
We already have root?
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We have root but the current method wipes the data. He has found a way to root without losing data. That's the way I took it.
Edit: both of you beat me to it lol
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
No offense to the OP but once you flash another rom you WILL have to wipe...
Now if its a one click type of root then that's a breakthrough
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
I see the value in this. Some people may just wanna root their TB but not want to install custom ROM. Or they may want to root to see what they can do with a rooted phone.
Thanks for your work but too bad I've already rooted mine.
I'm willing to try it
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
Ill try it our for you. Ill unroot when I get home and give your method a shot. Let me know
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
superchilpil said:
No offense to the OP but once you flash another rom you WILL have to wipe...
Now if its a one click type of root then that's a breakthrough
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not a one-click (I wish...).
If this works for the volunteers, the part in your msg about "... WILL have to wipe." may be obsolete info...
Followup volunteering msgs sent to lgldrgdlr and rjackson23 (who should have PM'ed me...)
I think we have enough volunteers at this time. Thanks.
I'm working with jcase (who may have a missing piece of the puzzle for a no-loss variant that would take MUCH less time to run). I'll keep you informed as this progresses...
wmserver said:
I see the value in this. Some people may just wanna root their TB but not want to install custom ROM. Or they may want to root to see what they can do with a rooted phone.
Thanks for your work but too bad I've already rooted mine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm in that boat.. I want root, but not really interested in other ROMs at this time. I went down that road wit hmy X and my Xoom, and its a pain, especially wit hthe Xoom and the move from 3.01 to 3.1 and now 3.2.
I guess one main question is if you root the TB, does it hack the hotspot as well, or would i still need to go get Wireless Tether?
jwb
This would be extremely useful...don't listen to the naysayers.
For those of us who waited to root a week, two, or even a month or two after getting the phone, there was no way to make a solid backup of apps, settings, etc. since most of the better methods require root. So many things had to be wiped clean completely. With a no-wipe root, whether you move onto ROMs or not, you have the opportunity to take a nandroid, use Titanium Backup, etc.
I can't donate my time or phone since I'm busy at work and need a strong daily driver, but I wish you luck.
I just rooted my phone yesterday. I would have liked to try it out and be part of the breathrough.
Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt using XDA App
Jolest said:
Not a one-click (I wish...).
If this works for the volunteers, the part in your msg about "... WILL have to wipe." may be obsolete info...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
great work man Im not trying to bash you
Is it any easyer than our original method? I know alot of people have problems with it because adb is so "scary"
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
superchilpil said:
great work man Im not trying to bash you
Is it any easyer than our original method? I know alot of people have problems with it because adb is so "scary"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry... Unfortunately, it's not any easier. It's an add-on to jcase's root method so it still uses adb. It actually takes about 3 times as much time as his, but most of that time is waiting for backup and restore operations to complete.
Very glad to hear development is still ongoing for root! I like this! I hope it works out well. I'd volunteer but I'm past that point. I ran my dInc stock rooted for a pretty long time before trying a custom ROM. This makes a lot of sense to me.
I'll be watching this. My wife won't let me root her TB because she doesn't want to redo her settings.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
I advise against using this backup method, taking a DD of /data while its r/w can lead to corruption.
A better idea would be to push su (aka a temp root) into your path and use something like titanium backup to backup you data.
Okay so the Kindles 6.2.1 update brought about gingerbread 2.3.6 from my understanding which patches the zergrush exploit. Here are some of my brainstorming ideas on ways that we can obtain root again.
1.) Some sort of flashing software to downgrade such as Odin/Heimdall (these work on samsung things so im not sure as to the viability of using these utilities on kindle.
2.) Perhaps there is a way we can use the OTA update method that amazon uses to issue a fake OTA update with a rooted image. This method to me sounds good but would probably require alot of work: like discovering how the amazon OTA updates are issued and ways that we can abuse and attack that process.
does anyone else have any ideas that might be considered?
As a first, is there anyone, who has successfully been able to use ADB/fastboot on firmware 6.2.1? I've tried the usual driver mods - no luck. Same thing on Ubuntu, which is weird - a Linux machine should have seen the KF without issues.
I can adb, just can't zerg. I looked for exploits for a half hour and came up blank.
You need to be root to idme. I'm at a roadblock :/
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
All non-rooted 6.2.1 are at a roadblock. Hopefully this is resolved soon.
intersectRaven said:
All non-rooted 6.2.1 are at a roadblock. Hopefully this is resolved soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so much for the idea that amazon didn't care about rooted kf
JackpotClavin said:
I can adb, just can't zerg. I looked for exploits for a half hour and came up blank.
You need to be root to idme. I'm at a roadblock :/
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you seen this post?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=20555086&postcount=68
I think you have a factory cable right? I can't try this as I am already at 6.2.1 rooted and I don't have a factory cable created or obtained yet.
jwilliamf said:
so much for the idea that amazon didn't care about rooted kf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't this just a general fix in android 2.3.6?
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk
If you have a fastboot cable you can use that to modify the recovery. Then you have all the access you need to root, theme, whatever.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk
I know of one case where someone says they used a factory cable and was able to use one of the pre-rooted stock Roms to get it going. If that's the case, then we have our answer boys!!!
sadalius said:
I know of one case where someone says they used a factory cable and was able to use one of the pre-rooted stock Roms to get it going. If that's the case, then we have our answer boys!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thing is.. not everyone has a factory cable.. I plan to buy the parts to make one when I get a chance.. but I'm sure a method will come about.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
now I dont know much about how to find exploits and stuff but I did download the stock update file and if you change it from .bin to .zip the structure looks like any other update zip just wil some extra stuff in it like the recovery image and such. could we just take the boot.img system directory and the other main system files from the rooted 6.2.1 and replace them in the stock update file and try to force it to re-update? once again just a thought after looking at the file.
It will fail the signature test in recovery if you tamper with the file. A factory cable is a useless method for rooting because nobody has one. We are looking for a method that doesn't require a cable
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
JackpotClavin said:
It will fail the signature test in recovery if you tamper with the file. A factory cable is a useless method for rooting because nobody has one. We are looking for a method that doesn't require a cable
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but couldnt you resign the file? I remember on my hero I used to take the dev roms remove all the crap I didnt want and then zip it and resign it. or does that only work with a custom recovery?
wtphoto said:
but couldnt you resign the file? I remember on my hero I used to take the dev roms remove all the crap I didnt want and then zip it and resign it. or does that only work with a custom recovery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That only works with a custom recovery. Now if you can get your hands on the signature file that amazon signs their updates with then that's a different story.
intersectRaven said:
That only works with a custom recovery. Now if you can get your hands on the signature file that amazon signs their updates with then that's a different story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, dont we all wish we could get our hands on that. like I said when it comes to the dev side i dont know much (though I want to learn, just dont know where to start) I kinda figured it couldnt be that easy but but it never hurts to ask.
However I'm still hesitant. Has anyone noticed a boost in battery or performance after removing the VZW crap ware? This phone seems to have the best stock ui experience next to the nexus phones, and I'm really not looking to ruin that. Any pointers on what is best practice?
I understand unlocking to bootloader, and have been there before with the droid eris and inc 2, but with a poly fuse I'm just not ready to break in yet.
I guess I just need some good convincing.
Sent from my XT907 using xda premium
I noticed that after I removed the moto service that it had less wake lock time. But I'm running Carbon now so I can't quite remember the amount of benefits.
Sent from my XT905 Carbon ROM using xda premium
8on3s said:
However I'm still hesitant. Has anyone noticed a boost in battery or performance after removing the VZW crap ware? This phone seems to have the best stock ui experience next to the nexus phones, and I'm really not looking to ruin that. Any pointers on what is best practice?
I understand unlocking to bootloader, and have been there before with the droid eris and inc 2, but with a poly fuse I'm just not ready to break in yet.
I guess I just need some good convincing.
Sent from my XT907 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not really sure how much battery life you are looking for, as the device gets 1 day+ stock, and still gets that rooted/debloated. performance does increase though when debloating.
one last benefit is that rooted folks are now on JB 4.2.2 (fully working too!) - not sure when that will be pushed by the carriers.
otherwise, the customization is the key.
I rooted my M long before I decided to put pacman rom on. I didn't really notice any difference in battery life. Biggest reason for me was so that I could use titanium backup to backup my apps. If you do decide to remove the bloat, make sure you do a nandroid backup for when the official upgrade comes out.
Nice, yeah just a little snappier... less bloat. That's all I'm looking for, stock this thing is great. The tool available in the forums, would that enable me to restore my firmware to stock w/o needing to be unlocked?
Sent from my XT907 using xda premium
8on3s said:
Nice, yeah just a little snappier... less bloat. That's all I'm looking for, stock this thing is great. The tool available in the forums, would that enable me to restore my firmware to stock w/o needing to be unlocked?
Sent from my XT907 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are some TWRP flashable ROMs that take you back to stock.
Rooting alone will not allow you to get to 4.2.2. That's a benefit of unlocking the bootloader.
BTrack said:
Rooting alone will not allow you to get to 4.2.2. That's a benefit of unlocking the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah not worried about the 4.2.2 just making sure the tool will root/allow me to revert to stock if need be, and not trip the fuse, that's only on the boot loader correct?
Sent from my XT907 using xda premium
8on3s said:
yeah not worried about the 4.2.2 just making sure the tool will root/allow me to revert to stock if need be, and not trip the fuse, that's only on the boot loader correct?
Sent from my XT907 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just use safe strap so u dont have to unlock your bootloader and dont touch the stock slot, then u can just uninstall safe strap and un root when u want to return to stock.
pbanj said:
just use safe strap so u dont have to unlock your bootloader and dont touch the stock slot, then u can just uninstall safe strap and un root when u want to return to stock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but you won't get any up to date ROMs using safe strap as its been all but abandoned now that the bootloader has been unlocked. I rooted and stayed stock for the longest (until the bootloader unlock exploit) and was perfectly happy. All I wanted was to use root apps anyway but now that the bootloader is unlocked I have a proper nand back up of the stock rom and can flash and try at will. the space requirements for safe strap killed the appeal of that for me, especially with the inability to move apps to sd.
stanlalee said:
yeah but you won't get any up to date ROMs using safe strap as its been all but abandoned now that the bootloader has been unlocked. I rooted and stayed stock for the longest (until the bootloader unlock exploit) and was perfectly happy. All I wanted was to use root apps anyway but now that the bootloader is unlocked I have a proper nand back up of the stock rom and can flash and try at will. the space requirements for safe strap killed the appeal of that for me, especially with the inability to move apps to sd.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh i know this, but if you read the thread you would see he does not want to unlock his bootloader.
pbanj said:
oh i know this, but if you read the thread you would see he does not want to unlock his bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol no problem, I'm sure as the year passes I will consider unlocking. This phone is such a solid upgrade from what I have had in the past, I'm not too concerned about it. The root was simple, and freezing the useless apps was good enough for my current needs. Thanks for the information though.
Sent from my XT907 using xda premium
8on3s said:
Lol no problem, I'm sure as the year passes I will consider unlocking. This phone is such a solid upgrade from what I have had in the past, I'm not too concerned about it. The root was simple, and freezing the useless apps was good enough for my current needs. Thanks for the information though.
Sent from my XT907 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used fast boot to patch the boot logo to get rid of the nag screen. There's a post in the Dev section that runs through the steps.
That way, most customer reps can't tell the difference if you have a warranty issue.
Of course, iirc, you can run an RSD flash to return to a locked bootloader, too, should you need to take care of a warranty issue, too.
If I'm wrong on that, feel free to correct me, everyone
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
vrmcbeigh said:
I used fast boot to patch the boot logo to get rid of the nag screen. There's a post in the Dev section that runs through the steps.
That way, most customer reps can't tell the difference if you have a warranty issue.
Of course, iirc, you can run an RSD flash to return to a locked bootloader, too, should you need to take care of a warranty issue, too.
If I'm wrong on that, feel free to correct me, everyone
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understood the unlocking was done by "breaking" a Polly fuse that cannot be re-written, perhaps one could trick the boot loader.
Sent from my XT907 using xda premium
8on3s said:
I understood the unlocking was done by "breaking" a Polly fuse that cannot be re-written, perhaps one could trick the boot loader.
Sent from my XT907 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh ****. They're QFuses, so unlocking is permanent. You're right.
Anyway, RSD will rewrite the recovery partition back to stock, so only people who know of the fast boot screen can find out. If they even remember to check it.
That means that people who get my devices once they've been refurbished (my phones like to overheat, no matter what model) have the bootloader unlocked already. Sweet.
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 4 Beta