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Warranty void in EU explained by FSFE Legal Coordinator

Hello
I'm proud owner of TF300T for 1 day
When I unlocked bootloader I had to confirm that my TF is no longer under warranty.
Every dev here has statement in their post that flashing unofficial firmware will void your warranty.
Well, that's not entirely true. If you have purchased your device in EU, then you still have warranty even if it was flashed with unofficial ROM.
Quote:
"Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty. You have to understand that in EU we have a “statutory warranty”, which is compulsory that the seller must offer by law (Directive 1999/44/CE, §7.1) and a “voluntary warranty” which the seller or manufacturer can, but does not need to, offer as an additional service to the consumer. Usually the “voluntary warranty” covers a longer period of time or additional accidents not covered by law6. If though the seller, the manufacturer or anyone else offers a “voluntary warranty”, he is bound to it as well!"
More details on Matija Šuklje, FSFE Legal Coordinator and Carlo Piana, FSFE’s General Counsel state article:
http://matija.suklje.name/rooting-and-flashing-your-device-does-not-void-the-warranty-in-eu
Happy flashing
* FSFE= Free Software Foundation Europe is dedicated to the furthering of Free Software and working for freedom in the emerging digital society

When I've contacted Asus they've told me my warranty would become void after unlocking the bootloader. Do Asus have a voluntary warranty?
Sent from my R800i using xda-developers app.
Sent from my R800i using xda-developers app.
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

Asus have statutory warranty 2 yers like everone else who is selling electronics in EU. They have to prove that device died becouse of your action and e.g power button cannot brake becouse you rooted tablet! If they refuse to RMA broken button becouse tab is rooted you can sue or report them to some org for protecting consumer rights.
Recently Apple was charged (or sentenced, I forgot) becouse they were selling "extended warranty" witch lasted 2 years. They are obligatory to have 2 years warranty anyway.
Helpdesk told you what he had to, becouse HQ ordered it and people beleive it becouse they don't know about this EU directive. What they say is valid for US and rest of the world, but not EU.
BTW, from about 2-3 weeks ago unlocking phone or tab locked by carrier (AT&T, Version ....) is in US criminal act. !

stenc55 said:
Asus have statutory warranty 2 yers like everone else who is selling electronics in EU. They have to prove that device died becouse of your action and e.g power button cannot brake becouse you rooted tablet! If they refuse to RMA broken button becouse tab is rooted you can sue or report them to some org for protecting consumer rights.
Recently Apple was charged (or sentenced, I forgot) becouse they were selling "extended warranty" witch lasted 2 years. They are obligatory to have 2 years warranty anyway.
Helpdesk told you what he had to, becouse HQ ordered it and people beleive it becouse they don't know about this EU directive. What they say is valid for US and rest of the world, but not EU.
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asus helpdesk in EU stated that the "warranty void" from unlocking counts only for software problems, if you discover an hardware defect they will still repair it under warranty (in USA and other countries this may vary as they have other customer protection laws).
but if you brick your tablet while flashing a rom meant for another device or something similar they wont cover you anymore - and well, why should they pay for your mess?
the unlocking basically works like those "warranty void if broken" seals that cover key screw on hardware devices - and those seals _ARE_ legal, if you break those you void your warranty as you cant anymore certify that the problem originated by a build defect instead of something you did.
BTW, from about 2-3 weeks ago unlocking phone or tab locked by carrier (AT&T, Version ....) is in US criminal act. !
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wrong, unlocking a phone carrier-lock is a criminal act, unlocking the bootloader to flash firmwares (what they call jailbreak on iphones) is still legal.

NixZero said:
asus helpdesk in EU stated that the "warranty void" from unlocking counts only for software problems, if you discover an hardware defect they will still repair it under warranty (in USA and other countries this may vary as they have other customer protection laws).
but if you brick your tablet while flashing a rom meant for another device or something similar they wont cover you anymore - and well, why should they pay for your mess?
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Agree. Confusion comes because they always say "warranty void" and not "software warranty void". They never mention that HW warranty still apply.
NixZero said:
the unlocking basically works like those "warranty void if broken" seals that cover key screw on hardware devices - and those seals _ARE_ legal, if you break those you void your warranty as you cant anymore certify that the problem originated by a build defect or something you did.
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Those seals are always legal. They prevent users to fiddle with HW. But HW only. They do not apply for SW.
NixZero said:
wrong, unlocking a phone carrier-lock is a criminal act, unlocking the bootloader to flash firmwares (what they call jailbreak on iphones) is still legal.
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That's what I wanted to say, but you said it more accurate.
I see there is a little confusion. This EU directive covers HW warranty, no matter in what state SW is. If user plays with SW then it's his fault if tab does a bootloop or if flashing goes wrong and one have 500€ brick. It's his fault. But if piece of HW is faulty they have to fix it even if tab is rooted and CM10.1 is installed. Problem is becouse they always say "warranty void" without specifying warranty for what? HW or SW? (SW does not have any warranty anyway)

stenc55 said:
I see there is a little confusion. This EU directive covers HW warranty, no matter in what state SW is. If user plays with SW then it's his fault if tab does a bootloop or if flashing goes wrong and one have 500€ brick. It's his fault. But if piece of HW is faulty they have to fix it even if tab is rooted and CM10.1 is installed. Problem is becouse they always say "warranty void" without specifying warranty for what? HW or SW? (SW does not have any warranty anyway)
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in some countries the consumer protection is really poor so they can do as they please, in EU its a lot stricter so probably if somebody pushes they would be forced to change their wording.
but there would need some flashy case and a lot of news coverage (like the wording in apple warranty that pushed users to buy their extra coverage even for the 2nd year that shoud be free, they got burned on that) and its not clear if its worth it as asus seem pretty helpfull when somebody asks
---------- Post added at 09:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 PM ----------
stenc55 said:
That's what I wanted to say, but you said it more accurate.
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actually I've misread what you wrote, sorry.

NixZero said:
asus helpdesk in EU stated that the "warranty void" from unlocking counts only for software problems, if you discover an hardware defect they will still repair it under warranty (in USA and other countries this may vary as they have other customer protection laws).
but if you brick your tablet while flashing a rom meant for another device or something similar they wont cover you anymore - and well, why should they pay for your mess?
the unlocking basically works like those "warranty void if broken" seals that cover key screw on hardware devices - and those seals _ARE_ legal, if you break those you void your warranty as you cant anymore certify that the problem originated by a build defect instead of something you did.
wrong, unlocking a phone carrier-lock is a criminal act, unlocking the bootloader to flash firmwares (what they call jailbreak on iphones) is still legal.
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i have to add that its a crime to sell a locked phone in Belgium. Tho European court of justice stuck down this law, it is still in use and we got finned for it.

Using root should/must not void warranty on Smartphones

Today's smartphones are as good as PCs. Does using root on computers void warranty? No!
Using root should/must not void warranty on Smartphones too.
Does rooting your device (e.g. an Android phone) and replacing its operating system with something else void your statutory warranty, if you are a consumer?
In short:
No.
Just the fact that you modified or changed the software of your device, is not a sufficient reason to void your statutory warranty. As long as you have bought the device as a consumer in the European Union.
A bit longer:
Directive 1999/44/CE dictates1 that any object meeting certain criteria (incl. telephones, computers, routers etc.) that is sold to a consumer2. inside the European Union, has to carry a warranty from the seller that the device will meet the quality that you would expect for such a device for a period of 2 years.
A telephone is an example of such a device and is an object that comprises many parts, from the case to the screen to the radio, to a mini-computer, to the battery, to the software that runs it. If any of these parts3 stop working in those 2 years, the seller has to fix or replace them. What is more these repairs should not cost the consumer a single cent — the seller has to cover the expenses (Directive 1999/44/CE, §3). If the seller has any expenses for returning it to the manufacturer, this is not your problem as a consumer.
If your device becomes defective in the first 6 months, it is presumed that the defect was there all along, so you should not need to prove anything.
If your device becomes defective after the first 6 months, but before 2 years run out, you are still covered. The difference is only that if the defect arises now, the seller can claim that the defect was caused by some action that was triggered by non-normal use of the device4. But in order to avoid needing to repair or replace your device, the seller has to prove that your action caused5 the defect. It is generally recognised by courts that unless there is a sign of abuse of the device, the defect is there because the device was faulty from the beginning. That is just common sense, after all.
So, we finally come to the question of rooting, flashing and changing the software. Unless the seller can prove that modifying the software, rooting your device or flashing it with some other OS or firmware was the cause for the defect, you are still covered for defects during those 2 years. A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware/OS and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect. There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software — e.g. overriding the speaker volume above the safe level could blow the speaker.
Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty. You have to understand that in EU we have a “statutory warranty”, which is compulsory that the seller must offer by law (Directive 1999/44/CE, §7.1) and a “voluntary warranty” which the seller or manufacturer can, but does not need to, offer as an additional service to the consumer. Usually the “voluntary warranty” covers a longer period of time or additional accidents not covered by law6. If though the seller, the manufacturer or anyone else offers a “voluntary warranty”, he is bound to it as well!
So, even if, by any chance your “voluntary warranty” got voided, by European law, you should still have the 2 year “compulsory warranty” as it is described in the Directive and which is the topic of this article.
In case the seller refuses your right to repair or replace the device, you can sue him in a civil litigation and can report the incident to the national authority. In many European countries such action does not even require hiring a lawyer and is most of the time ensured by consumers associations.
The warranty under this Directive is only applicable inside the European Union and only if you bought the device as a consumer.
[1] EU member states must have by now imported the Directive 1999/44/CE into their national laws. So you should quote also your local law on that topic.
[2] A consumer is a natural person who acts for their own private purposes and not as a professional. .
[3] Batteries can be exempt of this and usually hold only 6 months warranty.
[4] E.g. a defect power button could be caused by spreading marmalade in it or hooking it onto a robot that would continuously press the button every second 24/7 — of course that is not normal or intended use.
[5] Note that correlation is not causation — the defect has to be proven to be caused by your action, not just correlate with it.
[6] E.g. if a device manufacturer guarantees the phone is water- and shock-proof or a car manufacturer offers 7 years of warranty against rust.
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Source : https://fsfe.org/freesoftware/legal/flashingdevices.en.html

Should've gone in the general section mate, good info though.

tuxonhtc said:
Should've gone in the general section mate, good info though.
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I couldn't decide. I thought that it was a trouble for us
Can mods move this thread to the General Section please?

Just noticed this post when i was updating a friends note 2 and rooting in the EU does not void your warranty. This is general knowledge and good to be in the EU

It voids warranty bcuz u can accidentally brick it and that would be ur fault not thiers.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda app-developers app

Good info but thread needs to be moved to general info request a mod to move this thread
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium

mezo91 said:
It voids warranty bcuz u can accidentally brick it and that would be ur fault not thiers.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda app-developers app
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How will rooting your phone brick it??
Unless the seller can prove that modifying the software, rooting your device or flashing it with some other OS or firmware was the cause for the defect, you are still covered for defects during those 2 years. A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware/OS and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect. There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software — e.g. overriding the speaker volume above the safe level could blow the speaker
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Let's just say these are saftey measures of a company.
You bought the phone for the hardware and software made by Samsung. It's a form of giving credit.
Experimenting with the phone outside of Samsung circumstances is your own decision.

Simone said:
Let's just say these are saftey measures of a company.
You bought the phone for the hardware and software made by Samsung. It's a form of giving credit.
Experimenting with the phone outside of Samsung circumstances is your own decision.
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Completely irrelevant. The law is the law, and the law allows you to root in the EU without affecting any warranty.

FloatingFatMan said:
Completely irrelevant. The law is the law, and the law allows you to root in the EU without affecting any warranty.
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I see.

irishpancake said:
How will rooting your phone brick it??
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The only "problem" with rooting is that it potentially allows dumb users to do dumb things - such as overclocking beyond the acceptable level for your processor, or flashing a radio from a completely different device.
Regards,
Dave

This is actually an awesome thing to know. Thanks, OP.
I never rooted or flashed my note 2 because I was afraid to lose my warranty and have to pay the repair or buy another phone if something unlucky happened. This one isn't cheap. But I always had the feeling that I was not taking real advantage of my note 2 and now I think I will. Again, thanks.

You shouldn't be too sure that your warranty wouldn't be void , i know many places where you won't get any warranty due to being rooted, don't take this to granted as its "not a law" its also carrier/reseller that makes these decissions. they probably know what your doing if your rooting (basically i know that they know that i know) but lets say i bought a phone and they told me that i wasn't able to "upgrade" to a newer firmware due to the warranty being void. again i wouldn't take this as granted that i would get my warranty. as of its not anything i can say its the law. its not only the law. its samsung/resellers decision not government law.
Regards

It comes down to whether the repair centre can prove that rooting is the cause of the problem. I.e if a fried cpu is the issue, and they find that the cpu is overclocked.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

LastStandingDroid said:
You shouldn't be too sure that your warranty wouldn't be void , i know many places where you won't get any warranty due to being rooted, don't take this to granted as its "not a law" its also carrier/reseller that makes these decissions. they probably know what your doing if your rooting (basically i know that they know that i know) but lets say i bought a phone and they told me that i wasn't able to "upgrade" to a newer firmware due to the warranty being void. again i wouldn't take this as granted that i would get my warranty. as of its not anything i can say its the law. its not only the law. its samsung/resellers decision not government law.
Regards
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Wrong. It IS the law, in Europe. Outside of there you're likely screwed, but in Europe, consumers are protected. If they try to deny your rights, you can sue them into oblivion and are guaranteed a win, with all costs covered.

FloatingFatMan said:
Wrong. It IS the law, in Europe. Outside of there you're likely screwed, but in Europe, consumers are protected. If they try to deny your rights, you can sue them into oblivion and are guaranteed a win, with all costs covered.
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Let me take my brothers Xcover to the reseller (it's constantly freezing and has been done so) even before rooted but I won't say it's rooted I let them in service center look at it and if they say it's not going on warranty I'm glad to get some money lol.
But it's not a law. Not every country may follow it. I know Sweeden is one of those who Suck at this.
But it gives me an idea
Sent from my official GT-I9505 powered with qualcom

LastStandingDroid said:
Let me take my brothers Xcover to the reseller (it's constantly freezing and has been done so) even before rooted but I won't say it's rooted I let them in service center look at it and if they say it's not going on warranty I'm glad to get some money lol.
But it's not a law. Not every country may follow it. I know Sweeden is one of those who Suck at this.
But it gives me an idea
Sent from my official GT-I9505 powered with qualcom
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Your not thinking it's the law has no bearing at all on the law in the EU. If you're outside the EU. well, that's different.

LastStandingDroid said:
Let me take my brothers Xcover to the reseller (it's constantly freezing and has been done so) even before rooted but I won't say it's rooted I let them in service center look at it and if they say it's not going on warranty I'm glad to get some money lol.
But it's not a law. Not every country may follow it. I know Sweeden is one of those who Suck at this.
But it gives me an idea
Sent from my official GT-I9505 powered with qualcom
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Sweden is in the EU, and as such they are required to follow EU law. I'm from Norway, which is not in the EU, and we still follow the same warranty regulations (they are actually even more lenient)
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

Unfortunately I'm not in the EU.
In the past I went to the consumer court several times and I always won.
Even once I sued shoe company Nike and I got my money back even though I wore them for 2 months.
You must not forget!
Company's policy is not a law! They can't indicate anything to you that is not in the law. They cannot force you to obey their policies.
Company and you must obey the laws.
You have to be ready to fight against them on the customer court
You have to be well prepared. You must know the customer law.
And for the last, you have to be right. Do not waste your time for trying to get warranty for your liquid damaged device or broken screen

FloatingFatMan said:
Your not thinking it's the law has no bearing at all on the law in the EU. If you're outside the EU. well, that's different.
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last time i checked sweden was in EU but i can see if i can get my phone which has warranty to see if they will fix it,
its rooted but the root isn't caused by rooting it (Manufucator fault) has been since we got it, but i've never heard anyone getting their phone fixed if they have root. idk i can try.

[Q] Advice regarding root

Hey guys. Couple of quick questions. Cant seem to find the answer im after anywhere.
1. Is there any way of rooting my note without voiding warranty?
2. I found this guide which states that this method will not void warranty
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/5...3-lte-n9005-root-prerooted-stock-firmware.htm
However. The firmware they have linked to is this one 'SM-N9005XXUBMI7-ROOTED-KNOX_FREE.rar'
My baseband version is n9005XXUBMI6
My build number is JSS15J.N9005XXUBMI7
Will that firmware be compatible with my device. Really appreciate your help guys. Apologies if its all a bit noobish:silly:

Any tampering will trigger the counters and in turn, void your warranty. I emailed Samsung to see if triggering the Knox counter alone is enough to refuse a warranty repair and they confirmed that indeed it does.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 4

Here's my question. Do these other root methods work with sprints note 3?
Sent from my SM-N900P using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Consumer statutory rights
RavenY2K3 said:
Any tampering will trigger the counters and in turn, void your warranty. I emailed Samsung to see if triggering the Knox counter alone is enough to refuse a warranty repair and they confirmed that indeed it does.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 4
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In the UK, Samsung as the manufacturer may well be able to deny a consumer any rights which it has offered (such as a special Samsung manufacturer's warranty) where such rights are additional to the customer's statutory rights under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, the Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act 1973, the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, and the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.
However, neither Samsung nor the retailer can remove your statutory rights as a consumer against the retailer (including to ask for a repair or a refund) in relation to a product which you bought from a retailer. I very much doubt that Samsung will have said in its email to you that you will lose your statutory rights, though it may legitimately have said its own warranty would be invalidated by flashing alternative firmware. In brief, if there is an underlying fault in the product not caused by any change you have made to it, in the UK at least you may still have a perfectly good right to a repair or refund (perhaps only partial, depending on circumstances of the fault), whatever the status of the manufacturer's warranty.
For a useful layman's summary of UK position, see http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/738369/738375/OFT002_SOGA_explained.pdf.

dxzh said:
In the UK, Samsung as the manufacturer may well be able to deny a consumer any rights which it has offered (such as a special Samsung manufacturer's warranty) where such rights are additional to the customer's statutory rights under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, the Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act 1973, the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, and the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.
However, neither Samsung nor the retailer can remove your statutory rights as a consumer against the retailer (including to ask for a repair or a refund) in relation to a product which you bought from a retailer. I very much doubt that Samsung will have said in its email to you that you will lose your statutory rights, though it may legitimately have said its own warranty would be invalidated by flashing alternative firmware. In brief, if there is an underlying fault in the product not caused by any change you have made to it, in the UK at least you may still have a perfectly good right to a repair or refund (perhaps only partial, depending on circumstances of the fault), whatever the status of the manufacturer's warranty.
For a useful layman's summary of UK position, see http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/738369/738375/OFT002_SOGA_explained.pdf.
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That is interesting to know, but from the retail side of things, all they'll do is send the faulty item to the manufacturer for the assessment and repair, so won't they just tell "us" to jog on as soon as they see the counters, statutory rights or not? I'll copy the text from their reply into this post in a mo. Admittedly I'm not really wide to the ins and outs of the political side of all of this.
This is the reply I got from Samsung when I asked whether just triggering the Knox counter alone would void the warranty.
-----------------------------
Customer reference number:**********
Please quote your customer reference number when contacting Samsung*
Email response ID:**********
Dear *********
Thank you for contacting Samsung Customer Support.*
I am sorry you are experiencing issues with the information for your Samsung Galaxy Note 3. I can understand why you would like confirmation of your warranty status on the device.*
Any form of rooting the device will void the warranty on your handset. This includes both hardware and software warranty.*
You can read more information about our warranty policy at the following link:*
http://www.samsung.com/uk/support/warranty/warrantyInformation.do?page=POLICY.WARRANTY*
If there is anything else we can help with, please let us know.*
Our Customer Support Team love feedback! Share your thoughts on this response by completing the survey at the bottom of this page.*
Kind regards,*
Louise*
Online Support Team*
SAMSUNG Customer Support Centre*
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 4

I really think this is BS. This is Android and is it known that we love root and testing new things on our devices.
I have not had an Android device long without root! Going on 4 days with this Note 3 and just biting my fingers wondering if I should just root.

@dxzh is right but it's a matter of evidence. They will no doubt try to link the root to the fault you're claiming for. It will be up to you to show they are unrelated.
What is more interesting but hasn't yet been tested in UK law is the question of whether the devices should be capable of root without voiding the warranty for a consumer. That question is much more interesting, patricularly where they are using an open source OS and they release the kernel source for it.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 4

RavenY2K3 said:
That is interesting to know, but from the retail side of things, all they'll do is send the faulty item to the manufacturer for the assessment and repair, so won't they just tell "us" to jog on as soon as they see the counters, statutory rights or not? I'll copy the text from their reply into this post in a mo. Admittedly I'm not really wide to the ins and outs of the political side of all of this.
/
Any form of rooting the device will void the warranty on your handset. This includes both hardware and software warranty.*
You can read more information about our warranty policy at the following link:*
http://www.samsung.com/uk/support/warranty/warrantyInformation.do?page=POLICY.WARRANTY*
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In brief, it is the responsibility of the retailer to sort out repairs or refunds for defective products under UK consumer law. If the problem with the product is not caused by the consumer, then the consumer may well have a good case against the retailer. The retailer's statutory obligations are not likely to fall away if the consumenr simply flashes new firmware which causes no damage to the product.
The link given by Samsung seems to be a general description of the additional manufacturer's warrany and how to claim under it, not the detailed wording of the warranty itself. Digging out my old SGS2 manufacturer's warranty card received from Samsung in the box, there is at the end a typical statement that:
"This warranty does not affect the consumers statutory rights nor the consumers rights against the dealer from their purchase/sales agreement."
While the manufacturer's additional warranty set out on the warranty card (or wherever) on whatever terms it chooses may be lost by rooting, etc, I would take some comfort knowing that the important and valuable statutory rights a consumer has under the relevant local legislation, in the UK at least, subsist independently, primarily against the retailer. The consumer does not even need to go looking for the wording mentioned above in the manufacturer's warranty as, whether it is there or not, is not relevant to the continued existence of your statutory rights against the retailer.
From a retailer perspective, the obligations which they have to the consumer will depend on the circumstances. For example:
- if there was an underlying fault (such as duff pixels or a defective switch unconnected with the software loaded onto the device) or the device was not "fit for its purpose" or it was misdescribed, then the retailer (not its distributor or Samsung) is the one under an obligation to arrange a repair or refund in accordance with the legislation, irrespective of any manufacturer's warranty.
- if the problem is caused by the consumer dropping the phone or frying the CPU by overclocking it, then that is a matter not typically protected by the legislation. In this type of circumstance the loss of the additional rights might be significant, perhaps because additional accidental damage cover offered with the phone in the form of a warranty or insurance is invalidated or has exclusions linked to the modification of the device. However, even then the consumer's position may not be completely hopeless if:
** a term dening the warranty or insurance could be deemed unfair under UCTA 1977 (or similar legislation) - for example, it might be unfair to be denied accidental damage coverage for damage caused by dropping a phone in water if the reason coverage is denied is simply because the phone had been previously rooted. Warning: this type of claim based on unfairness though is not an ideal path to follow as outcome is uncertain (given legal judgement call) and journey there likely to be time-consuming; or
** a retailer (or the repairer on its behalf) does not associate revisions to the firmware with the problem resulting in the claim or chooses not to enforce the exceptions for some reason (eg the retailer is nice, incompetent, values ongoing relationship, has better things to do than argue, etc).
The OFT guide to the position of a UK retailer (http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/738..._explained.pdf) mentioned in my earlier post seems to be informative and written in plain English and gives, I believe, a really useful indicator of the grounds for returning goods for repair or refund in the UK and of a few extra rights a consumer might have when buying remotely - many of these rights will exist in a similar form throughout the EU, though implemented in a different way. Whether or not the average high street employee of the retailer in the UK is aware of the obligations of the retailer is a bit of a lottery, but someone in its head office will be and it is to the head office that the consumer may have to turn if the store itself is unhelpful. Fortunately in the UK at least, it is not generally the consumer's problem as to how the retailer sorts out with its distributor or the ultimate manufacturer (in this case Samsung) which of the retailer, distributor or manufacturer ultimately pays for the repair or refund where there is a good statutory claim.

dxzh said:
In brief, it is the responsibility of the retailer to sort out repairs or refunds for defective products under UK consumer law.
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Thank you for that thorough explanation, well see what happens if it dies before I get the Note 4
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 4

dxzh said:
However, neither Samsung nor the retailer can remove your statutory rights as a consumer against the retailer (including to ask for a repair or a refund) in relation to a product which you bought from a retailer. I very much doubt that Samsung will have said in its email to you that you will lose your statutory rights, though it may legitimately have said its own warranty would be invalidated by flashing alternative firmware. In brief, if there is an underlying fault in the product not caused by any change you have made to it, in the UK at least you may still have a perfectly good right to a repair or refund (perhaps only partial, depending on circumstances of the fault), whatever the status of the manufacturer's warranty.
For a useful layman's summary of UK position, see http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/738369/738375/OFT002_SOGA_explained.pdf.
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dxzh said:
In brief, it is the responsibility of the retailer to sort out repairs or refunds for defective products under UK consumer law.
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As you said, Samsung can legally choose to take NOTHING to do with you unless you bought the phone from them directly. The retailer is solely responsible for repair or replacement of faulty goods. In terms of liability, the manufacturer's involvement is incidental, as often they're best-placed to provide repair services. Of course, the manufacturer *may* choose to intervene and repair a product at their expense as a customer service gesture.
Good link, it could come in handy! Thanks!
RavenY2K3 said:
Any form of rooting the device will void the warranty on your handset. This includes both hardware and software warranty.
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Again, warranty is not the same thing as invoking your statutory rights under the sale of goods act. It may well be the first point of call that your phone goes for warranty repair and is denied. The next step is to escalate the issue from routine warranty service to a you seeking redress under the relevant statutes.
This process can take months. To be honest, my personal opinion is that you're better threatening to stop paying contracts than threatening legal action, the latter means they'll probably refuse to talk to you from that point on and you'd have to liaise with their legal department. By that point you could be heading for the small claims court (as your next logical step) which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it does have some initial outlays. I think it would be preferable to get a resolution from customer services rather than a court.
Source: I've worked for a major retailer and been involved in two cases in small claims court (the customers lost both!). Also, I got a reasonable resolution once with a rooted HTC that T-Mob's repair centre refused to fix.

I say hell with them! I going to root mine. Cant stand having so much bloat on my stuff. Besides, without root is like having no eyes!

Samsung UK Service Centre

Samsung has officially confirm that they will not honor any warranty they can see the Knox software being tripped, as in my case today.
They will not replace or repair any phone that has this status on the screen, as this is a directive from Samsung HQ.

Clarification from Samsung UK at last then. Bugger :crying:
Takes UK rooting to a whole new level then, especially with the amount of defective devices there has already been floating around. 0x1 is certainly a risk now more than ever.. especially if they won't fulfil any fixes even if you choose to pay.

samuel clarke said:
Samsung has officially confirm that they will not honor any warranty they can see the Knox software being tripped, as in my case today.
They will not replace or repair any phone that has this status on the screen, as this is a directive from Samsung HQ.
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Any documentation like an email ?
Did you ask for a copy of this "directive from Samsung HQ"? There must be some kind of written documentation ....

Mittaa said:
Any documentation like an email ?
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2542127
documented in this thread, altho no emails etc, no reason to lie really.
Also, I've come to the conclusion that Samsung do UK repairs through third party shops (from when I looked for one in my city York), therefore they decide on what they will and will not repair given on Samsung's original advice it seems.

Nope direct words from the technical engineer at Samsung service center at Stratford Westfield I also have a the following email.
Regarding your Note 3, we have done some investigating into the fault and it turns out that the device has what we call, been rooted. This means that un official software has been loaded onto the device and in the end this results in the voiding of the warranty.
Please feel free to come and collect the handset but i am sorry to deliver the bad news.
Samsung Store
114 The street
Westfield Stratford City
London
E20 1EJ

OK so what I can gather from this is - Samsung themselves will NOT repair a device even if you try/offer to pay to have it done.
But.... Their third party representative shops seem to be carrying out repairs 0x0 or 0x1 regardless?
That sound about right?

Really? I think EU law would supercede this.

FlamingGoat said:
Really? I think EU law would supercede this.
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Yes, that is true. They cant get away citing Knox. See this
http://matija.suklje.name/rooting-and-flashing-your-device-does-not-void-the-warranty-in-eu

no it can't
just because samsung want it to doesn't mean that it does
european law will take precedence ....you may have to fight for it but they can't refuse to honour the warranty unless they can prove rooting and installing a rom has broken the phone
way to many companies try this on .....(sorry you hav broken this sticker you have voided your warranty) .......not in the uk you don't or the rest of europe for that matter

Sue the bell-ends
Right... this is an ideal case for the UK small claims court. It can all be done online, and the process does work.
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/engla..._e/law_taking_legal_action_e/small_claims.htm
Samsung (and their peers) need to be told that EU law trumps their stupid unfair warranty rules.
The claim will actually be against the retailer, since it is with them that you have a contract, so you need to (rather unfairly) go after the shop or the service provider who sold you the phone.
I believe the process costs around £40, and I dont think you need to attend court in person.
A friend of mine successfully went through this process with the provider Three UK when he couldnt get HTC to repair the camera that had cracked on his phone. He won a judgement against Three for the full (unlocked) value of the handset, and got the money.
If this can be successfully done, and documented, it will start to set a precedent that unrelated hardware faults cannot be excluded from warranty rights (actually statuary rights in the EU) due to rooting, or any other software mod.
I strongly urge you to follow this course, for the good of the many (as well as yourself).
I want to root my Note3, but dare not...
cheers
George
samuel clarke said:
Nope direct words from the technical engineer at Samsung service center at Stratford Westfield I also have a the following email.
Regarding your Note 3, we have done some investigating into the fault and it turns out that the device has what we call, been rooted. This means that un official software has been loaded onto the device and in the end this results in the voiding of the warranty.
Please feel free to come and collect the handset but i am sorry to deliver the bad news.
Samsung Store
114 The street
Westfield Stratford City
London
E20 1EJ
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Is what I said here or in another thread (theres a lot around this currently). The warranty in the UK lays with the seller be it carrier, P4U or CPW or somewhere else. - 9 out of 10 times they'll fix/replace anyway. It's just Samsung themselves that are being stubborn (Samsung don't sell phones directly to consumer in the UK for whatever reason..). - It's all about not taking no for an answer more than anything.

I will write to Samsung UK and give them 14 days to refund the full amount I paid for a new phone. After that I will seek action from a small claims court, lets see what they say now

Good Stuff
samuel clarke said:
I will write to Samsung UK and give them 14 days to refund the full amount I paid for a new phone. After that I will seek action from a small claims court, lets see what they say now
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Good Stuff - please keep us updated on this forum.
Good luck with it
thanks
George

Yup get that letter wrote with the threat of small claims and cite the EU Directive. - get your money back
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Considering the EFS partition on this device is so fragile and will brick if you so much as sneeze on it, I am starting to regret tripping my knox.
Sure Samsung have no right to supersede EU law but you will have to go through so much hassle just to get them to honour their warranty.
Everyday when I use my Note 3 I always expect the WiFi to suddenly stop working, or the IMEI to disappear, or the device to start rebooting randomly. There are just so many reports of these problems randomly happening and add that to Samsung's stupid idea of 0x1 making your warranty invalid, I feel like I have wasted so much money. Sure this is a great device, but for how long will that last!

prank1 said:
Considering the EFS partition on this device is so fragile and will brick if you so much as sneeze on it, I am starting to regret tripping my knox.
Sure Samsung have no right to supersede EU law but you will have to go through so much hassle just to get them to honour their warranty.
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Actually, I think that you're wrong here. You guys in the EU have the advantage that law is on your side. Your disadvantage is that as individuals you're small and inconsequential. Thus Samsung as a Multi-Billion dollar corporation can give each and every one of you sh*t without worrying about it.
You're phone provider, on the other hand, is NOT a small and inconsequential individual. So if you all start to sue P4U or CPW how long do you think it will be before those companies start questioning Samsung?
Especially when the actual text states "Knox Warranty Void" NOT 'Device Warranty Void"
Ultimately this will benefit those who don't have the umbrella of EU law.
Go for it guys

Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge Warranty

Hey,
I wonder how Samsung handles the KNOX Warranty void 0x1 cases (e.g. thats when youre rooted)? Is it really that bad? Does anybody had issues with it because of that?
Kind Regards,
Twan

I don't think it would void the warranty for a hardware failure, but have no personal experience to support that.

Previous answers to this question show that it varies country to country depending on consumer laws. In australia for example it is the retailer not the manufacturer bearing responsibility to the purchaser for faults (the retailer is not allowed to evade responsibility) and rooting makes no difference.

timrichardson said:
Previous answers to this question show that it varies country to country depending on consumer laws. In australia for example it is the retailer not the manufacturer bearing responsibility to the purchaser for faults (the retailer is not allowed to evade responsibility) and rooting makes no difference.
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Hey,
Not that I disagree with your explanation, but the consumer still has the right to seek a remedy through the manufacturer directly. Depending on which retailer you are using sometimes it will be easier to deal with Samsung directly.
I know through experince that dealing with Apple for example is way more better than any retailer. I haven't experienced Samsung warranty as of yet through them but I hope they have a similar philosophy as Apple when it comes to customer relations.
With regards to the OP's question, in Australia it would be very unlikely for a warranty claim to be rejected based on rooting your device. Bearing in mind that the warranty claim is not as a direct result of your rooting. Even if you had a cracked screen and wanted to claim a warranty on an entirely untreated matter such as Bluetooth not working etc as long as your direct actions have not caused the issue than your warranty would/should be honoured.
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Rooting doesn't void warranty just uproot it before you send it. Talked to the head of marketing that's what he said. It doesn't make sense anyway. Knox is a corporate warranty for data

skivnit said:
Rooting doesn't void warranty just uproot it before you send it. Talked to the head of marketing that's what he said. It doesn't make sense anyway. Knox is a corporate warranty for data
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But rooting affects the KNOX counter to Warranty 0x1 so i guess it was void, thats also what they say at the chat and the twitter... so i dont know what to believe.

In the U.S., the Magnason Moss Warranty Act prohibits manufacturers from arbitrarily denying warranty coverage. They need to show that something you did caused the problem in order to deny coverage. It would be pretty hard to claim that triggering the Knox bit caused your screen, or a memory chip, or the battery to fail.
That said, if the manufacturer does deny warranty coverage, you have to demonstrate they're wrong. You could file a complaint with consumer protection agencies, or file suit, but the onus is on you to prove your argument, not the manufacturer.

Yes, but i am living in the Netherlands so that could be different. Should i call them about this? I dont want my warranty to get void already.