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Foreword: I mean this in the most constructive way possible. While I'm not a <android> developer, it occurs to me that with the wealth of Android ROM-devs and an excellent base of testers (like myself, an unexcellent but present tester), there has to be a better way.
I love XDA-Dev as a resource, and it's been a godsend since I got my MT3G. I've had the opportunity to use some very well done builds which have been time-invested by their developers. I've learned a lot about my device, and am beginning to understand Android as a platform. Here's the beef:
Some ROM-posts are 1000+ pages long. While I could read all 1000+ pages if warranted, it's simply inefficient. What information am I after? I want to know:
Does it work on my phone?
What's the latest version?
Where's it at?
Are there any specific bugs on my phone with this build?
Who else is using this build, and what hardware are they using?
What bugs are being worked on?
What workarounds are applicable to this build?
What bugs are open and need community feedback?
etc...
Is there some sort of bug-tracking setup that could be used to facilitate this? I don't mean or intend to steer *anything* away from XDA-Developers, per se, but this current forum method doesn't seem very conducive to making forward progress.
<shrug> I know, I know, I'm a noob around here and should just work with the herd. I've seen other comments touching on some of these issues, so I thought I'd throw it out there. I apologize if it's been brought up before and shot down.
Hey, what about this? I was looking for a semi-authoritative list of Android ROMs that matched what I outlined above and came across it.
If I had the resources I'd volunteer time/materials to help the cause in that light, but being the schmuck I am (ya' know, working full time and school part time), I can't offer anything substantive. So while this might sound like a gripe, maybe it will compel someone else to make some magic happen. That, or have my account disabled
Any thoughts?
I understand where you are coming from.. but I don't find it that hard to find the rom and information I am after.. all it takes is a little time..
Why not help out by adding to the wiki?
I dont see how this has to do with development, you are just as guilty as the people you speak of.
xyzulu said:
I understand where you are coming from.. but I don't find it that hard to find the rom and information I am after.. all it takes is a little time..
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Click to collapse
I hear ya, it's just not a very concise method and I'm sure you've seen "what's the best build" & "will this ROM work on my phone" and "hey are there any issues with this build", etc...
xyzulu said:
Why not help out by adding to the wiki?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've thought about it, and went as far as the edit screen a few times. Then it's like "aww crap, here goes a few hours...". Back to homework
Jrbourque said:
I dont see how this has to do with development, you are just as guilty as the people you speak of.
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I think it has everything to do with development, advancement of the builds flying around here, and support of the folks that put their time into it.
Maybe you misinterpreted what I was saying, but I surely wasn't trying to assign guilt to anyone. Things are the way they are because they got that way - doesn't make it right, 'doesn't make it wrong. I just thought maybe there's a better way to support the community.
It's all good.
Jrbourque said:
I dont see how this has to do with development, you are just as guilty as the people you speak of.
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Click to collapse
It's this kind of attitude that is putting a lot of people off. The OP has made some very good and valid points and deserves at least a response to the points he has made, not just a one sentence put down.
Dear Eris Users who Are Waiting for Root,
I'd like to start by addressing all of you as a large audience. I may ask certain groups to leave. I hope they will respect that wish and then come back and join the larger group when I am done with each piece.
We all got the Droid Eris from Verizon. We all got it for different reasons. A lot of you, if not all of you, are here because you wanted an HTC phone that was rooted. You wanted the custom roms, the themes, the su privileges. This shining aura that was "root" was so appealing, that you took a plunge and bought the device before any work was really done on that. Now, some of you feel that you should receive, neigh, deserve root. I am so saddened by what this community, Eris users, not XDA, has turned into. The disbelievers, the demanders; what are you still doing here, complaining? Just leave if you have something mean to say.
To everyone: I'm a firm believer in the idea that if you don't have something important, information wise/helpful, to say on the forum, then don't post at all. I try to keep my fingers off the keyboard, and I have for a long time, but I cannot hold my silence. I used to post every day. I used to be excited to get onto XDA and see if something new had happened while I was away. When we got our own section of the forum, I was overjoyed! (Not really, but we needed a section) We had a pristine new subforum to play around in, and we trashed it. Our original root thread had to be closed because of how off topic and ridiculous it was. Our new thread has gone to crap and turned more into a flame war, than a place where we are looking for exploits and posting findings. Sadly, I wouldn't blame XDA for shutting that one down too. We, as a whole, have alienated developers and are now in danger of not getting root for a number of reasons.
No one deserves root, just like no one deserves $20 from a random stranger. Sure, it'd be nice to get it, but no one deserves it. We should all be thankful for the man hours that people have put in, for no money, to try and give us $20 a piece... I mean root this thing. Seriously, it's a community, not a business. Also, those who feel like it's not worth it to wait around, just leave. Don't make an exit if you're sitting around and not helping but you feel the need to announce that you are fed up, or tired of it. Root will come eventually. There has yet to be an android phone that hasn't been hacked, and we will not be the first one.
Lastly, I'm tired of the "HTC NEEDS to release the source code because it's our right to have it" argument. Sure, the source would help, but the iPhone has been hacked again and again and again with no source code. It comes down to good developers, and a thankful community. So, please stop riding that bandwagon. The source code will get here eventually, but you have to be patient.
To those of you who have been helpful: Thank you. To anyone who tried an exploit and posted findings, thank you. To anyone who compiled an exploit, who dumped their phone, who offered help, incite, or even a "keep it up", thank you. That's what a good hacking community does.
To Jmanly, Binny, Zifnab, rigamrts and others: Thank you for everything you've done to help us out. You are all a tribute to being a good forum member. We would not even be a fraction of where we are without Jmanly's guidance and it was sad to see him leave.
Where to go from here: I think we need to restart. Create a new thread where no negative talk will occur, people will only post things that help move us forward and people post their thanks to those who are doing all of us a favor. None of us deserve root. It's not owed to us because we got the phone. We should all be thankful for what some people with the know-how are doing for us. That should be all I have to say. I hope we can change a little bit for the better and maybe we can get back to trying to root.
-Video
Well said!
This is well put.
I can never quite understand the flaming or negative stuff.
I learned when I started out in WinMo Xperia Threads that people hassling or acting "Entitled" while you are working hard on a Mod or Rom or anything can be quite disheartening.
If it can be agreed upon, I would like to open a new thread, for root status and updates. (hopefully for the last time)
Or I can just add it to the bounty thread that is already open (I know and understand that most of us do this for the love of hacking and modding and out of a sense of community, but it is also a nice gesture and could really help someone that devotes time and effort to this)???
I would monitor it constantly and report any flaming and abuse to one of our great moderators immediatley.
What do you think?
here's how i felt when i first got my eris.
i was like great now i can see what's up and possibly help get root for the new addopters cause i did not get my g1 durring the first run. i missed out on the fun times of all the posts of people trying to hack the phone.
so when i first landed in the eris waters it was great the late night whiteboard sessions were fun throwing any idea no matter how idiotic it sounded and going to town. then we had our first 2 casualties jman and me cause some one took it apon himself to attack a guy who didn't even have our phone and was willing to help.
then we had today where that same person took it on himself to flame another dev the same way. now the 7 day ban might calm him down or send the message not to come back. but i thought it sould have been a perma-ban cause of past actions plus the disrespecting of a mod which is a no no. that mod i respect cause he acted profesionally and gave the community hope that this type of behavior will not be tollorated.
hopefully if things keep going in a positive direction i might jump back into fold but feel very heartbroken cause of the few bad apples.
Awesome post
as acid said, very well put.
i too never understood why not just in the "eris" section but yet in any section people have demanded such items to be released.
I agree with rigamrts, I have watched this board with aw in some of the things people have said to one another. If I had root to this phone I would P.M. the members I wanted to have it just to keep out the ones that act childish. But then wouldn't I be just as childish? So I would just stop, Do my own thing, and wait as a few of the people here have done. People with no interest in this device have nothing to lose by leaving besides maybe hearing their friend saying "come on man, come back. We won't let that happen again." Its a shame this happened in our community but as with the physical community I live in there are jerks. People that you wish would leave on their own accord but stick around with T.P. stuck to their shoes looking like idiots. Anyways, thanks for the help, keep working, and feel free to leave if things get retarded again. I would do the same.
I think it would be cool if everyone who was interested in CONTRIBUTING to the root, whether that be via coding, finding exploits, packing these things/making user friendly tutorials, could form, basically, a Dev team. They/we could have a blog, a place where they/we can get together and chat amongst ourselves about ideas and whatever. Hopefully, then, we could have a more concrete group of people WORKING TOGETHER to achieve this one goal.
If any of the people working on root are down for it, let's make it happen. Cool? Cool. Cool? Cool.
Videofolife13 said:
I think it would be cool if everyone who was interested in CONTRIBUTING to the root, whether that be via coding, finding exploits, packing these things/making user friendly tutorials, could form, basically, a Dev team. They/we could have a blog, a place where they/we can get together and chat amongst ourselves about ideas and whatever. Hopefully, then, we could have a more concrete group of people WORKING TOGETHER to achieve this one goal.
If any of the people working on root are down for it, let's make it happen. Cool? Cool. Cool? Cool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i could create a bolg on one of my unused email account
I think that moving the thread to the new one should work..
We have a couple of moderators all over this now..
And I can update everyday
I need you guys to update me on what to put im the 1st post so that we can get back on track
I think the blog is a great idea but the thing is we also need to keep the discussion here at XDA, the place that originally got us together. If we don't keep the support here we won't have a well known place to meet new Eris users that could potentially help. We can't do that because of one bad apple, this Is our meeting place and we need to show XDA the respect by continuing to trust their mods to do their jobs. Ya that guy should have been permanently banned but he wasn't so let's not punish XDA for that decision. My two pennies.
I agree that we need to hang out at XDA, but I also feel that we could move to somewhere where we can bounce around ideas without people hijacking threads or starting flame wars. I'm not trying to keep people in the dark, I just want to try a different place. Oh, and I'd like some people who know what they're doing to sign on. I'm just a visionary, I can't code. Haha
Ok guys here is the deal after what happend today I am a little upset I spend hours each day searching the web for exploits, why... to help. Here is what I may do, I might buy some webspace and set up a area for us to work together on. I am going to see if Jman will will join us, this is just a idea for right now. I will let you guys know when I clear my head.
Aren't there free blogs? Let's not throw money at this quite yet.
Oh, and I'm sorry you got upset with some people and also that I haven't been here in, well, a month or more. I thought the community was going stagnate. I'm here to stay and, like you, I'll be scrounging for exploits and doing my best to help those with the know-how by doing the leg work if they do the real work.
Free yes but I would like some were were we can upload files to and what not. Just a idea for right now.
Clear ur head man...take care
When ya come back.head over to the new no flaming thread
Videofolife13 said:
Aren't there free blogs? Let's not throw money at this quite yet.
Oh, and I'm sorry you got upset with some people and also that I haven't been here in, well, a month or more. I thought the community was going stagnate. I'm here to stay and, like you, I'll be scrounging for exploits and doing my best to help those with the know-how by doing the leg work if they do the real work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rigamrts.blogspot.com
just set up one for us.
Videofolife13 said:
I think it would be cool if everyone who was interested in CONTRIBUTING to the root, whether that be via coding, finding exploits, packing these things/making user friendly tutorials, could form, basically, a Dev team. They/we could have a blog, a place where they/we can get together and chat amongst ourselves about ideas and whatever. Hopefully, then, we could have a more concrete group of people WORKING TOGETHER to achieve this one goal.
If any of the people working on root are down for it, let's make it happen. Cool? Cool. Cool? Cool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I have the pro programs for Mac and Windows to make killer video tuts, so once we have this thing rooted, I can get that out of the way.
Oh and I can host web space for you too on my server, I just don't have any domains to run the site on. You could use your ways to get a domain. (Try shorturl.com that's what I use for most of my websites.)
Questions to [email protected].
CPCookieMan said:
Well I have the pro programs for Mac and Windows to make killer video tuts, so once we have this thing rooted, I can get that out of the way.
Oh and I can host web space for you too on my server, I just don't have any domains to run the site on. You could use your ways to get a domain. (Try shorturl.com that's what I use for most of my websites.)
Questions to [email protected].
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good Stuff Cookie...
Come over to the new thread an help us out
Its in my sig...
No one deserves root, just like no one deserves $20 from a random stranger. Sure, it'd be nice to get it, but no one deserves it. We should all be thankful for the man hours that people have put in, for no money, to try and give us $20 a piece... I mean root this thing. Seriously, it's a community, not a business.
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Video I can agree where you are comming from, it does suck the fun out of the puzzle of rooting the device with all the flaming and demanding. But on the other side where I am, I am not a programmer or a linux genius. So we almost feel like leechers taking your work with out compensation for it. So the Pool for the dev that roots the Eris is our attempt to do our part in the give take relationship we have in this community.
Sure I could spend hours and hours and hope to get where you guys are or I can offer my monitary thanks for all your work.
I am not trying to point this thread in the wrong direction and I don't want to see a bunch of "I agree" replies. Just want to convey our side, the noobs and amatures that can't do the things that you do.
I am waiting patiently and if there is anything we the non-dev's can do let us know.
binny1007 said:
Free yes but I would like some were were we can upload files to and what not. Just a idea for right now.
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I have my own web server that we can use. Let me know if you want to set something up.
would a google wave account work i have invites?
I'm starting a new company and i'm looking for a partner that is experienced or at a beginners level like me.
The focus of the development and the business will be google android application development targeted towards large corporations.
if you are dedicated and are willing to work with me then we both have a bright future ahead of us
My origional partner started getting flakey and didn't want to take the time necessary to get things moving
The company is pretty much set up and ready to go I just need a solid serious individual to work with me.
It may be a struggle at first and I have nothing to offer except a share in profits.
Google android is amazing and is taking over the industry with a bright future ahead.
taking advantage of the market today guarantees success.
Even if you are a beginner to android and java but are willing to learn and do what it takes then I would love to hear from you.
if you are interested please email me at
[email protected] so we can further discuss the opportunity
You might wanna edit this for spelling/punctuation; makes you sound more professional.
themapleboy said:
You might wanna edit this for spelling/punctuation; makes you sound more professional.
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Click to collapse
I didn't claim to be a professional.
And there is always someone out there like you.
I was expecting a few responses like yours.
You must be an English major and a professional writer lol
it must be hard to be so perfect.
Correcting people is a great way to get your post count up buddy.
The point is that I'm a regular person.
Everybody makes mistakes.
A pm would have been a little more appropriate i think.
But the people like you that know it all thrive on trying to put others down in order to get through your day.
I'm sure I must have misspelled something or forgot to cross a t or dot an i.
Plus I write on my phone. Auto correct isn't always the best feature.
Hopefully the real people out there won't be such haters.
wrxtc714 said:
I didn't claim to be a professional.
And there is always someone out there like you.
I was expecting a few responses like yours.
You must be an English major and a professional writer lol
it must be hard to be so perfect.
Correcting people is a great way to get your post count up buddy.
The point is that I'm a regular person.
Everybody makes mistakes.
A pm would have been a little more appropriate i think.
But the people like you that know it all thrive on trying to put others down in order to get through your day.
I'm sure I must have misspelled something or forgot to cross a t or dot an i.
Plus I write on my phone. Auto correct isn't always the best feature.
Hopefully the real people out there won't be such haters.
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Chill the fk out, seriously. Yes a pm would have been more appropriate in hindsight, but I was just trying to help and didn't realize it would stir up a **** storm (my original intent was to edit my post to say something positive once you fixed yours). You seem like a real joy to work with I pity those who reply to this.
themapleboy said:
Chill the fk out, seriously. Yes a pm would have been more appropriate in hindsight, but I was just trying to help and didn't realize it would stir up a **** storm (my original intent was to edit my post to say something positive once you fixed yours). You seem like a real joy to work with I pity those who reply to this.
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Lol thanks for your help pal
lets just hope that the good people out there can look past this guys personal issues.
I'm sure most people see where I'm coming from about his criticism.
Anyways I'm a good and honest individual and am just looking for the right people to work with
obviously anyone with issues such as themapleboy need not inquire.
wrxtc714 said:
Lol thanks for your help pal
lets just hope that the good people out there can look past this guys personal issues.
I'm sure most people see where I'm coming from about his criticism.
Anyways I'm a good and honest individual and am just looking for the right people to work with
obviously anyone with issues such as themapleboy need not inquire.
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Click to collapse
Woah, woah, woah. Ok, now that we've come down to walking speed, let me continue:
themapleboy was clearly just trying to help. It never hurts to be formal in situations that facilitate it, i.e. seeking a business partner, at least in my book, is clearly of those situations. themapleboy recognised this and attempted to help.
Let us now segue into a justification from a professional:
Moreover, I'm a socio/psycho/computational linguist (meaning that I study the effects of linguistic registers – among other things – and how these registers interact with human perception) and there's clearly nothing wrong with writing informally – in fact, linguists care not for "correctness" for we study language as it evolves and not as it once was. On the other hand, informality does, however, have an affect on how others perceive your intelligence, professionalism, and seriousness: formality ultimately determines whether-or-not you'll find an ideal business partner. You said yourself that you search for someone who is dedicated and a solid serious individual; therefore, an investment of a tad bit more formality and seriousness may ensure that, instead of finding someone amateurish and lighthearted, you find someone who's equally as driven and serious as you. /justification for themapleboy
I, too, am a business owner. It was difficult. The fees to start up were outrageous, and the immense amount of thought and planning required were, needless to say, overwhelming. Frankly, I was nervous. Unfortunately, I sound like your old business parter – which is, ultimately, why I closed my business. My heart is in linguistic research and not application development, which I still do in my spare time.
Let me be absolutely clear in saying that this message is not, by any means, an attack. Let me also add that themapleboy's original message was, too, not meant to be an attack. People receive criticism and distribute criticism in varying ways; each person is unique, which is why you must always assume positive intent no matter how difficult it may seem.
Good luck with finding someone, and may both of your futures be as successful as you hope them to be.
Sorry to say, but themapleboy makes a valid point.
Despite being no english major myself, I would recommend proper communication skills when dealing with potential business associates, customers, etc.
The image you project will likely make the difference between a long fruitless struggle and a successful venture.
Only my $.02
Found the people I needed
I've found the people I needed
thank you guys for seeing these poor trash talkers for what they are.
And thank you xda for being there!
Just wanted to mention that all the users who attacked the devs have changed their tune since oem support is crap.
I've been holding my feeling against all the ignorant users who attacked the devs.
Thanks, that is all.
I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to say, but I got the gist of it.
And I agree.
That is all.
Translation:
All those who attacked the devs and coined them faildev.team are all of a sudden changing their tune now that they are speaking out about their projects, and OEM support has been so crappy.
Sad that people act like this.
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
Thanks for the translation...
FDro said:
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
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Click to collapse
People demand instant gratification, and when they do not get it, they get ugly because they think for some reason, they are owed everything. Then there is the jealousy factor. Then there are those who think the devs withhold stuff from the community.
Then there are those who just attack me because they can.
The android community is young, and due to it being user friendly, it attracts young folks. Some just happen to be very immature. It *should* get better with time.
All this cool and dandy...
However developers also have some room to improve situation on the forums.
As adrynalyne pointed here there is a lot of childish behavior here. But developers, being leaders of community, not always behave as such.
I understand all sorts of emotions etc. I personally fall victim of them... Sorry if I hurted somebodys feelings.
But, I cannot stand some sort of elitism growing here.
Devs, please do not threat rest of the crowd as a bunch of morons! It will reflect positively on you as well.
If you have time to read all crappy posts on the forums and post aggravated responses, why do not spend this time typing meaningful response, holding grain of knowledge? If not, just stay calm and do not feed flame.
I do not want to repeat myself again and again. Just want to see some professionalism and respect in forums. It's not going to help moving to IRC, twitter or whatever. Root cause must be resolved.
Personally I was really impressed, more by anything else, of adrynalyne responding to that guy posted leak on other forums. Seriously! It was so different from how I percept him at forum. Like completely different person.
Respect!
While moving to irc may be unfortunate for some...it provides real time interaction for development. That simply is not possible on a forum. I work with a lot of people, and can fix problems 90% faster in real time.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
FDro said:
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
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I totally agree, the devs have my support in anything that they do, in whatever time frame they can make happen. Still better then the OEM time frame for an "update".
i hope the poster(s) who jumped all over the devs awhile back (i forget who) arent using anything that they have done recently and will avoid froyo/gb unless it comes from verizon/samsung
nitsuj17 said:
i hope the poster(s) who jumped all over the devs awhile back (i forget who) arent using anything that they have done recently and will avoid froyo/gb unless it comes from verizon/samsung
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agreed
10char
adrynalyne said:
While moving to irc may be unfortunate for some...it provides real time interaction for development. That simply is not possible on a forum. I work with a lot of people, and can fix problems 90% faster in real time.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
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And that's OK. Unfortunately it doesn't leave any footprints anywhere else.
That's why we same questions everyday... Technical or whatever. The commonality between them is that they do not have posted answers here.
I'm talking for myself only. Please do not take it personally in any way and keep in mind that my English is not my native language, so something might sound harsh.
Like I got an understanding that RIL is the problem, by I was unable to find any technical explanation why, what was done to overcome etc. So, I asked here... I even do not want to think about what resulted. And all I wanted to have some technical answer, and may be share some ideas, because I'm in the IT field as well...
Now, looks whats going on around. Punkkaos got it working at least partially. I understand that other people contributed, and work probably started not 10 minutes ago. But nonetheless RIL is in progress or already done.
How I suppose to feel about this? I'm mixed.
Fist of all I'm THANKFUL for you guys who put all time and efforts in this! I'm not going to use it immediately, but I like that secure feeling that phone will not become a paperweight in 6 months down the road. I definitely will enjoy results of this work in the close future.
But, I need to admit that I have another side, as well. It's not necessarily dark, just kind of human nature, I guess. It kind of disappointment...
I ask myself - well, if it is done and done pretty quickly, why it didn't happened before? Months ago...
Like, just an assumption, please do not take it personally.
I think what if devs took a quick look and it didn't worked immediately and samsung promised update soon. People think - OK, we will wait for update, not worth to spend time on it. But time goes and goes and there is no update or leak... And tension is going up and up. And all this is OK and well understood. But doesn't solve the problem.
Yesterday, I've created twitter account (yes, call me a dinosaur) and specifically asked punkkaos how he addressed the problem. And guess what, he answered as expected that RIL is basically adapted and he does call result translation between old and new one. This is exactly how I would personally approach this problem myself.
My point here is that aside of actual work to be done, it is not rocket science. It is well known approach in programming.
And now you can throw all rocks you have into me, saying that if I so smart ass why I do not do it myself. That, right.
But, I know my limits and I'm not going to wipe out one of my comps, partition it to install Linux, to install tool chain, sources etc, to reinstall Windows and all crap me and my family needs in everyday life, just to try adapt RIL knowing that I will fail, because of my zero knowledge of subject. Or, even worse without knowing that it was already attempted and failed. And it was attempted by someone who is really ample to do it. Do you see holding factors?
That's why I asked questions. And being this question answered properly, who knows, may be another brave soul would had managed to accomplish what punkkaos did, but one month earlier, simpler or better. I feel like bad temper and communication let community down, at least temporarily.
And I think we are all at fault here. No need to point fingers.
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
phooky said:
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
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Click to collapse
Did I ever said that I'm owed? My grief is about this particular community in general. And because we all members, we all equally responsible for a atmosphere here. Or you think that bashing somebody here helps a lot?
And you know what? OP is right at the moment, I'll stay away from any custom roms or mods or whatever. At least for now. Because to be "cool" is not only thing in my life anymore. I outgrown it long time ago.
My crave for update is stemming not from desire to have highest score in quadrant, but from wish to have stable, usable and secure platform, from which IMHO any current phone is far away.
Out of the box SF is fairly usable, thought not ideal. Having Froyo and GB, means that I can get all bug fixes, improvements and new features such as native code extensions for applications and games, enterprise stuff etc.
Using rooted phone might be OK for me, but definitely not for my wife or children. So, manufacturer support is still important. Unfortunately my believe in Samsung faded out very quickly. And that essentially raised importance of independent developers proportionally. I do not see anything wrong with it.
phooky said:
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
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this guy does not seem to be in the entitlement crowd. He even states that english is a second language and to cut him some slack. I think what he was trying to say is that he was disappointed that samsung kept getting everybodies hopes up, which may have pushed devs off of working on getting things rolling for this device (why wouldn't they wait when they are being told froyo is on the way? From what I understand it would be easier to rip through that and make changes than to pull it off a different phone and sort of start from scratch). This doesn't sound too "tinfoil hat" to me, and certaintly doesn;t come off as entitled. More like he was pointing out one possible contributing factor as to why there has been a lot of waiting around (not complaining here guys, statement of fact. Did/do appreciate all the nonfroyo/gb roms and fixes that have been pushed out for us) for word of froyo. Now that Kaos/JT/Birdman have gotten some Froyo alpha's posted up, I am getting the feeling that the floodgates are about to open.
2 cents
I am not a developer.
My phone was decent out of the box.
Thanks to all the developers hard work, that i don't yet have the ability to do, my phone has gone from decent to fantastic.
The best part is that they aren't done yet
The future is exciting and if i ever think i am entitled to anything from someone elses work then, please, someone on here ***** slap me.
To all developers on here....you have my respect and gratitude. You have improved my life and saved my ass more than once. (Or twice)
Please keep doing your thing. And when i learn how to help i will.
Sent from my fascinate through xda app.
Well, the goal isn't to instill hostility, but to bring awareness to be thankful.
I can see what CNemo means because he doesn't understand what's going on. I can assure you that there is no intended elitism going on. Most of the roms tested in irc are shared here as soon as they are determined to be stable enough for testing.
It may seem like there is no transparency, but actually if you care, there is... The source codes are public. You can see what the devs are doing on github.
Yeah I've tried the whole, "Im just gonna throw it out there on the forums" thing. It does not work well, and you end up ticking people off when things stop working. Always best for the IRC crowd to muddle through the stuff first.
adrynalyne said:
Yeah I've tried the whole, "Im just gonna throw it out there on the forums" thing. It does not work well, and you end up ticking people off when things stop working. Always best for the IRC crowd to muddle through the stuff first.
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I agree and disagree. I disagree because it's nice to have this stuff in the forums where more people can try it. On the other hand, no matter how many warnings you give, there are going to be those who AREN'T comfortable with ADB, etc and go ahead and do it anyway... then we as a community lose valuable time while you fix everyone's fubar. It's frustrating to me, I can only imagine being on the other side. As far as Devs go, I don't envy them... It's the utimate "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
Aside from donations and thanks, the other way to support the Dev community is to PAY for apps. I have quite a few paid apps on my phone. The only caveat to that is when I'm looking at an app and I'm unsure if I want/need it. From time to time I'll grab it from ********* and give it a 5min test spin. If it works, I uninstall and grab it from the Market. If it doesn't, I just uninstall. I know (for the most part) that we're talking about two separate types of devs, but the point is the same... if you're using someone's work... support them!
In response to the post above, I think I get what he was saying... I've done some programming (old school, mostly... BASIC, MS Acess) and while that doesn't really apply to Android at ALL, there may be some of us that have ideas that could help. In the end, a variable is a variable is a variable. I've thrown questions and ideas out only to be ignored. I don't take it personally, but even a "no, dip****... it doesn't work like that" would be appreaciated
No seriously, the guys in IRC will flash anything thrown at them... Some of them will end up with serious issues that were found to be seriously flawed.
Here's an example. VooDoo 5. When it first started rolling around in IRC from jt, it was considered unstable. It did not have the tools required for the average user to repair their phone. Adrynalyne preemptively produced the DI01 all in one ROM to repair everything from the radio, the kernel, the MBR, the recovery even... Did Adrynalyne have to do that? No, he did it because he knew that kinds of issues that would arrive when VooDoo 5 was introduced. Then VooDoo 5 was released.
Compared to VooDoo 4, the amount of incidents are exponentially less because of Adrynalyne putting a fix out there.
Also with phone repairs, it's much easier to help someone fix something in real time than it is to wait on them to try something, post, wait for response, in that sequence than it is to discuss the repair live in a chatroom.
BTW, this is in no offense to anyone. This is to clarify why some of the people are perceived as elitists. It's not that the IRC crowd are elitists, it's that they're more up to date with the latest development because they're busy flashing and screwing up their phones first so that you don't have to. On the same token, if you want to learn/test latest development, hop on IRC and ask any of the guys in #Samsung-Fascinate for help. It's very friendly in there contrary to what you would think (as long as you're not wozzy/sherwood1).
hello, i've made an Automated Atrix ThatRom Installer.
This script will help noobs to do everything without any troubles.
The file is a rar archive with all firmware files + installer.
here is a link http://www.mobile-inform.com/content/view/1148/1/
this is early alpha. you take all responsibility on yourself. I do not recommend you to use this rom, but if you still want to use it - here it is
UPD Updated To ThatRom v2 (AtrICS)
all thanks to the author of ThatRomv2 (AtrICS), i made only the Installer!
With best regards
the_fly
I don't think that it's a good idea to make an automatic installer of something that it's no stable for someone who doesn't even know how to use fastboot nor flash a zip. Maybe when this finally reaches the stable "level", then you should do the Installer.
BravoMotorola said:
Maybe, until you're not annoying, you should stfu. Seriously stop trying to tell people what to do.
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Wow dude, that was really uncalled for. He is actually right because now the op has put himself in a position to be harassed by anyone who tries this and messes up their phone even though they should and do know the risks. He was just trying to be helpful, he wasn't attacking the op for making it.
I agree making an unstable, untested, developer test build easily available to newbies is a very bad idea. If they can't at the VERY least learn how to use fastboot and adb, they should come nowhere near this ROM. Unless of course you really want to be held responsible for dozens of bricked and/or unusable phones, and be expected to provide extensive support at all times.
if they are noobs - it is their problem. Everything is written befoure me.
Everyone takes responsibility for their actions.
There were several noobs who were crying about ICS even if they do not know what to do. and they are happy now, despite the bugs.
I am not, but i made for those who are. I am not going to tell anyone to install it, i did only help, but i suggest nobody to install it.
It doesn't work and you know it. It's as if there was some paid software that people want, and you made a crack/patch for it, and then you say you don't advise using it. Do you really think people will stay away just because you advised so? No, they won't. In fact in that case your disclaimers make no difference whatsoever, you are equally at fault for making it available as they are for using it. Why do you think all anti-piracy companies always go after crack makers and distributors and not so much after users? I mean many crack makers also advise against using their cracks. But people are stupid and never listen, and in in the eyes of many crack makers are the original offenders.
Or if you want a different analogy - go find a mentally unstable person who can't really think straight (may seem offensive but noobs who want test builds on their phones clearly do not know what they're doing), then place a bottle of some drugs and a fresh needle within easy reach, and then tell them you advise not using it. Observe what happens.
IMO this kind of things are best dealt with preemptively, by not even making the potentially controversial stuff easily available.
you see, i've made first script of unlocking the boot a year ago. a lot of peole thanked me. they were happy - they unlocked once and than used other ways to change the firmware. They were noobs, but happy noobs. 18 000 downloads (i think some of them were same persons, for example me - while i was testing, or when i was unlocking for my friends), but only 4!!! broken phones. 2 of them caused by bad motherboard and 2 of them by ignoring the manual and all the warnings.
This one is more easy one. less questins. less work. just use it.
and if person already have unlocked boot there will be no problem with this FW
and i want to mention it again some users are happy enought with this fw. Some do not have reboots, some have but for them it is ok.
You should tell everyone that this is a very alpha rom. It does run without multiple reboots for most people per the forums. I personally have tried all methods and cannot get it to run.
I appreciate your efforts but this is not something that noobs will get any value from. You should be very clear upfront.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
agurzhiy said:
hello, i've made an Automated Atrix ThatRom Installer.
This script will help noobs to do everything without any troubles.
The file is a rar archive with all firmware files + installer.
With best regards
the_fly
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Thanks agurzhiy!
I am a proud noob who used your unlock script and will use this one.
For all the pros which have a problem with this- you have the same approach as Motorola - "It's complicated you can't understand this". It's my choice what to do with my phone and agurzhiy providing us noobs with a possibility to participate in the effort to make it better.
The bottom line is instead of criticize why don't you spend this time and energy on creating and helping the community. Remember you were ones noobs too.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
e07015 said:
You should tell everyone that this is a very alpha rom. It does run without multiple reboots for most people per the forums. I personally have tried all methods and cannot get it to run.
I appreciate your efforts but this is not something that noobs will get any value from. You should be very clear upfront.
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i think everyone knows that it is alpha rom. nobody is going to install a script if if nobody knows what's inside. But i will add that it is alpha
ComX said:
For all the pros which have a problem with this- you have the same approach as Motorola - "It's complicated you can't understand this".
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You're missing my point entirely here. But that's okay. I don't want to argue anymore.
Is this just a fastboot script or an bootloader unlocker and ram fix etc etc
ravilov said:
You're missing my point entirely here. But that's okay. I don't want to argue anymore.
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I do not think that this is an argument. It is more like sharing different views on a subject.
I know what you mean, you want to prevent (or at least warn) noobs from taking the risk of bricking their phone and you are right 100%. But let me ask you how many of XDA readers are dumb enough to download some thing like this without reading at least a bit about it(*). Give ppl a little credit, most of us will stop on red light although it is possible to continue. Take me for example: I wanted to use nebtop but had a difficulty to understand how to root. Than mramirezusa came out with Automatic bootloader for noobs like me and boom - now I'm using the atrix as a streamer and without this tool I couldn't do this on my own. My point is that having a possibility to do stuff is highly appreciated.
* Ryan Dunn: If You Gonna be Dumb - You Gotta Be Tough.
this is a fastboot script to make it faster and easyer for a noob
UPDATE:
added the 32 bit version for x86 Windows
agurzhiy said:
UPDATE:
added the 32 bit version for x86 Windows
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Dude, you've only been thanked here 7 times... Stop thinking so highly of yourself.
Unless you are going to stick around the forums helping these guys out when they have issues with your release, because they won't have anywhere else to go, and because other devs are busy with their own stuff, than you should probably refrain from posting anything that makes it easier to flash dangerous software.
Unless you're willing to help "guy xyz" (since quotes seem to be in) on "page 74" when he asks again, "why am i having video issues after flash", because your main post lacks important details and explanation and your web link is not multi-lingual, please refrain from posting content which could be perceived as harmful to use.
Any good software community recommends first releasing to a smaller test group in order to work out major bugs and minimize any potential impact the software may have on the device... And, any good service community would recommend first releasing to a smaller test group in order to create a base to compare full deployment scenarios against... In no cases would they make it easy to install buggy software on devices of users who can not adequately report issues during alpha stages of software.
Why is it so hard to understand how that applies here?
Zeljko1234 said:
IMO, you should stop spending so much time here on the forum arguing with people. Don't get me wrong but your posts are usually quite offensive (example what I saw today). You post almost in every thread, smartassing noobs, playing to be moderator... If you know something, share it, if post or thread is against the rules, report it.
Now you're arguing with guy who made first script of unlocking the bootloader and in the same time insinuate that many of xda members are just dump.
Forum, especially xda, is about sharing knowledge not giving useless advise/comment or to google it.
P.S.
Sorry everyone for off topic.
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We try not to feed him, Zeljko1234... Just let him be.
Your point is well deserved; but don't feed the trolls.
knigitz said:
Dude, you've only been thanked here 7 times... Stop thinking so highly of yourself.
Unless you are going to stick around the forums helping these guys out when they have issues with your release, because they won't have anywhere else to go, and because other devs are busy with their own stuff, than you should probably refrain from posting anything that makes it easier to flash dangerous software.
Unless you're willing to help "guy xyz" (since quotes seem to be in) on "page 74" when he asks again, "why am i having video issues after flash", because your main post lacks important details and explanation and your web link is not multi-lingual, please refrain from posting content which could be perceived as harmful to use.
Any good software community recommends first releasing to a smaller test group in order to work out major bugs and minimize any potential impact the software may have on the device... And, any good service community would recommend first releasing to a smaller test group in order to create a base to compare full deployment scenarios against... In no cases would they make it easy to install buggy software on devices of users who can not adequately report issues during alpha stages of software.
Why is it so hard to understand how that applies here?
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Why don't you argue with epinter or any other person who put ThatRom?
Why are you arguing with me?
i made the thing easier, but i am not responsible for the uncomplete software. some people are lazy to use fastboot, but they know how to use it (i have flashed my phone 3 times while testing some of options to find out how it works)
other do not have enough knowledge to flash, but it's thair dream to have it, they are ready for the bugs and they alwas can ask me to help them to flash any other FW. And if they have unlocked boot - they can use CWM.
And the last group - the people who are just afraid to install after a lot of information about locking bootloaders. In russian community forums i've read 10 such questions from people who i know, from people who know how to use fastboot.
And if person do not want to install it - he may not install it!
I'm thankful to everyone who share knowledge. Even if I don't use everything, I usually download or read just to learn how. Without such guys, Internet itself will be mostly useless.
Do not blame anyone (especially epinter) for your mistake. He and many others guys spend a lot of their private time to figure how to do something, developing, supporting... and then sahre for free! As I can see, very rare they get donation. Almost never for the most loudest complainers which just wait that someone else will do something for them.
As I explained, as long as you are willing to stick around and help people with issues they encounter after flashing this, and provide more detailed instructions that people can read in your first post, it's not an issue.
Low thank count makes the more seasoned members cringe, as people release stuff that brick phones then disappear (it happens), leaving the community in a state of unrest trying to figure out the full impact of an unmaintained release, how many users were affected by the release, and a common way to fix the issues, and it leaves it up to other developers to explain to every xyz person to read this thread, read that thread, or flash this to fix.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2