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8MP camera shootout - Arc is somewhere in the middle

Well.. looks like in the end that the Arc's camera performance is not all that good...
http://www.gsmarena.com/8mp_shootout_2011-review-673p5.php
really bad... maybe some mod on the camera can get a bit more quality out of the device... really a shame to see xperia arc perform like this...

NeoCream said:
Well.. looks like in the end that the Arc's camera performance is not all that good...
http://www.gsmarena.com/8mp_shootout_2011-review-673p5.php
really bad... maybe some mod on the camera can get a bit more quality out of the device... really a shame to see xperia arc perform like this...
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Those are take under Auto settings. When we set it to manual it can take great pictures ... Check this out

excuse me,but, there isn`t any developer working on this?
i think if the iphone use the same ccd,our arc can do better fotos.
i believe the compression ratio is very high...

I ma relly disappointed

Sorry to say that those comparsion is a bit of bias towards iphone 4S.

If you guys notice, the issue with the arc is mainly due to the high compression. I don't understand why SE wanted to do this . Be it photo or video arc loose due to the noise level and lack of detail, which are caused due to high compression and bite rate.

Pynzeta said:
excuse me,but, there isn`t any developer working on this?
i think if the iphone use the same ccd,our arc can do better fotos.
i believe the compression ratio is very high...
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Its a CMOS sensor, not CCD. The phone they used to test is the arc S.
I read their review of the arc S and gsmarena commented that the camera output of arc S is somewhat different from the arc. The arc's camera performed better.
You may try checking the reviews of arc and arc S if you want.
The high JPEG compression is one issue here as majority of the pictures ranged from 500KB to 1.80MB (based from my experience and all photos are full 8megapixels)
I tried camera advance and camera fx, you can choose the JPEG compression but when I viewed it on PC at 100% magnification the picture has the same details as the default camera app.
I think the JPEG format processing of the arc itself is the problem. The X10 has more details and larger file size btw.
Perhaps gsmarena used the default settings of the camera (auto scene recognition) during their test. They did not bother at all to choose manual settings imho.

Pynzeta said:
excuse me,but, there isn`t any developer working on this?
...
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Nah, as much as I know no one is working on that... it seems to be pretty complicated to do... :-(

NeoCream said:
Well.. looks like in the end that the Arc's camera performance is not all that good...
http://www.gsmarena.com/8mp_shootout_2011-review-673p5.php
really bad... maybe some mod on the camera can get a bit more quality out of the device... really a shame to see xperia arc perform like this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a real old Daily GSMarena visitor.i must say check their other news about SE.One word:GSM arena only Loves nokia and is totaly biased

Yeah but if you read carefully the summary, every camera there has some problems.

I'm not biased, I use an Arc & compared it to iphone 4.
iphone 4 came out much better except during really low light settings.
So iphone 4s must be be even better.
Shame really due to the high compression rate. Also I own a xperia x1 with a 3.2mp & apart from being extremely slow the quality on pics is almost on par with the Arc.
Sent from my LT15i using xda premium

I have an arc S and my wife has a iphone 4s. Iv done a fair few comparisons and it turns out the iPhone is the winner. In EVERY photo the iphone has sooooo much more detail, has better colour saturation and doesnt blow out highlights like my arc does.
Im extremely disapointed with the arc camera quality. I got way better from my x10 and c905.
When the arc s and 4s have the same sensor it troubles me to think that the sony devs just couldnt give two ****s about competing especially if its going to eat into their camera business but guess what, selling their sensor to apple has pretty much stopped alot of people from going out and buying a point and shoot wether it be sony or another brand.
So all you android die hards that think apple is **** in every way, why dont you go compare the 4s camera to your arc and get a phone full of humiliation. Too the people or said they used auto exposure setting, what do you think the iphone uses, FAIR FIGHT....DONE!!!

harlz said:
I have an arc S and my wife has a iphone 4s. Iv done a fair few comparisons and it turns out the iPhone is the winner. In EVERY photo the iphone has sooooo much more detail, has better colour saturation and doesnt blow out highlights like my arc does.
Im extremely disapointed with the arc camera quality. I got way better from my x10 and c905.
When the arc s and 4s have the same sensor it troubles me to think that the sony devs just couldnt give two ****s about competing especially if its going to eat into their camera business but guess what, selling their sensor to apple has pretty much stopped alot of people from going out and buying a point and shoot wether it be sony or another brand.
So all you android die hards that think apple is **** in every way, why dont you go compare the 4s camera to your arc and get a phone full of humiliation. Too the people or said they used auto exposure setting, what do you think the iphone uses, FAIR FIGHT....DONE!!!
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True. But don't forget Apple and Android in general have another way of approaching things. Apple uses a 1-way-fits all approach in which there is very little customization possible. In UI, features, but also in camera this is obvious. This suits most (non-tech) people, but people who want to have control will hate it. In my opinion its too bland, closed and boring. But it works, so that is enough for a lot of people.
In android the user is the king. That means you have to know what you are doing to get the most out of it. Using the auto-setting is not as fine-tuned as it should be. SE and other Android manufacturers have many phones and setups to consider so making perfect auto-settings is out of the question in most cases. Apple had a much easier job with only 1 phone to tune. But most of us won't use auto-settings anyways. Even on normal-mode with middle-of-the-road settings you get better results than auto-settings on the Arc, which is very unpredictable.
I've compared both and they are very similar and subjected to taste. On auto the 4S is definitely better, that has to be said indeed. But if you care about those things and don't care about looking further than your nose than you should be better of with the iPhone experience anyways.

If im not mistaken, when I watched Iphone 4S keynote, I remember when they introduced the 8MP camera sensor, and said that they "have done something to the sensor, we added additional lens to for better picture quality and..."
so same sensor on the Arc, but with a little modifications made by Apple to make it better?
Too much compression on Arc is very irritating

thephilip said:
I'm not biased, I use an Arc & compared it to iphone 4.
iphone 4 came out much better except during really low light settings.
So iphone 4s must be be even better.
Shame really due to the high compression rate. Also I own a xperia x1 with a 3.2mp & apart from being extremely slow the quality on pics is almost on par with the Arc.
Sent from my LT15i using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's interesting comment because I also own X1 and also think it has amazing camera, I made amazing shots with it.
But I still think Arc camera is amazing. Also in low light.
It even got camera of the year award. Honestly X10 is a little worse.
The only thing which can spoil the game is compression.

I can't comment about the original arc since I have the arc s but I do know the camera could be much better. Is it possible that the arc s camera may not be as good as the original arc? if it won best camera phone award I don't see how.
Sent from my LT18i using XDA App

harlz said:
I can't comment about the original arc since I have the arc s but I do know the camera could be much better. Is it possible that the arc s camera may not be as good as the original arc? if it won best camera phone award I don't see how.
Sent from my LT18i using XDA App
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Well I don't know, the overall quality incl. night shots plus features?!
The funny thing is to go carefully through GSMArena comparative test.
In some areas X10 is the best of all three (X10/Arc/iPhone 4s)
but in some it loses.
iPhone 4s has great detail but - it makes too bright pics! Just look at ISO 12233 chart, which is grey but on iPhone it's white, lol.
P.S. Just compared Arc S/Arc/iPhone 4s and definitely there are spots where Arc S performs better than Arc, and tiny bit better than iPhone.
Arc S and Arc cameras are very similar but not identical.

New photo samples?

I think these may not have been discussed before and appear to have been taken with a Z:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mooringrope/
Pixel peeping at 100%, sure they seem to not be that sharp from the noise reduction but I think they'll still do very good prints, maybe as big as A3. I'll probably try printing some when I get mine as a test.
Also, I think responsiveness of the software / speed of capture and control is more important than minor image quality issues.
Edit: I think it may still be a pre-production device. As it's listed on flickr as C6603...
Edit 11th Feb: Later on in this topic, hush66 kindly posted some links to new sample photos which are from a production device and seem a lot better than the ones in my post below.
hush66 said:
I took some sample photos using the Xperia Z, and uploaded them here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/110267829736715997848/XperiaZC6603Samples
Sorry if the photos are not that good. I suck at taking photos as my hands are somewhat shaky.
Update: original photos can be downloaded here: http://www.mediafire.com/?0ej013u7kkrdbv3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Also these are new to me at least: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]N05/sets/72157632729147253/
Edit: Having browsed these images a little bit more, I feel the Z image quality may be a bit disappointing.
This combined with a review mentioning there not being a big difference between 720p and 1080p on the display and the seemingly average battery life as a result, has made me start to consider whether to cancel my pre-order.

First batch looks good to me. Alot different to the second album though... wether the 2nd guy has wobbly hands or just typed the wrong device i have no idea. But from what samples i have seen the pictures usually are very good, and as people say Sony are good in the camera department

Looking good. Maybe it's nothing revolutionary, but low light photos are amazing.

I'm very happy with what I'm seeing in the first batch and those night/low light shots. It is only a phone camera after all so it's unrealistic to expect the world out of it.

Pretty good for a phone. Phone Photos will never be great, even with a big sensor like the nokia, simply because the lens will never be great.
Personally I rather have a thin phone and a separate camera like the rx100 than a heavy and large phone like the pure views.

Photo quality
I read two reviews that said the picture quality Xperia z is not all that. They said there was not a lot of progress in relation to phones like iPhone 5 or galaxy s3.
Very noisy and marketing ...
Companies have to stop fooling people ... cuz eventually lose credibility with the public.
Sony xperia z = Tefefone too thin to have a better camera to nokia 920 and nokia n8
13mp was only for marketing!

Sigh... You only signed up to write that?
I'd like to welcome to XDA:silly:
Here it goes:
rapha.194 said:
I read two reviews that said the picture quality Xperia z is not all that. They said there was not a lot of progress in relation to phones like iPhone 5 or galaxy s3.
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You said you read 2 reviews, that's fine and all. But what if both reviews said for example that the phone smelled like carrots (Just an example)
Would you have believed it?
Before concluding things it's best that you try out the phone for yourself.
And you may say/think that the pictures aren't all that, but qw all have our different opinions, some may find it enough for their needs, some don't. Some use a dedicated camera, some use their phone. Should I continue?
rapha.194 said:
Very noisy and marketing ...
Companies have to stop fooling people ... cuz eventually lose credibility with the public.
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Click to collapse
Companies have to stop fooling people... agreed, but look it from their point of view, in the end they are only doing it to survive in this world. So can we blame them? I'd say no.
Eventually everyone bought a product because some company said that product X was better then product Z from another company. It's for us to figure out what true and what's not. People in general have to look passed their nose and see the actual truth instead of being "misinformed".
rapha.194 said:
Sony xperia z = Tefefone too thin to have a better camera to nokia 920 and nokia n8
13mp was only for marketing!
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Click to collapse
Is that your conclusion that the telephone is too thin or did you copied that from a review(s)?
You named 2 other phones... well I'd say test it out and proof that to us.
And yes of course the 13mp is a marketing scheme, but some company has to be the first to announce these kind of things, in xx months I bet there will be more companies introducing a 13mp camera in their phones, will you also call it a marketing scheme then? Or won't you, because multiple companies have the "technology" (referring to the 13mp).
Now it's your turn:angel:

Dsteppa
First of all thanks for the greeting.

no photo but video comparisson vs the galaxy note 2 and nexus 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el85dQDDSrY
the xperia z is in another level

stefanve said:
Pretty good for a phone. Phone Photos will never be great, even with a big sensor like the nokia, simply because the lens will never be great.
Personally I rather have a thin phone and a separate camera like the rx100 than a heavy and large phone like the pure views.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Nokia pureview 808 is a class all its own. The pictures from it rival just about any point and shoot I've seen at least from 2 feet away or with tux limit of the Nokia zoom.
I was hoping the Z was going to put up a close fight but I'm skeptical at this point. There certainly is hype created by companies but on the case of the Nokia its all backed up. Hopefully Sony hasn't let us down.

I took some sample photos using the Xperia Z, and uploaded them here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/110267829736715997848/XperiaZC6603Samples
Sorry if the photos are not that good. I suck at taking photos as my hands are somewhat shaky.
Update: original photos can be downloaded here: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3

hush66 said:
I took some sample photos using the Xperia Z, and uploaded them here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/110267829736715997848/XperiaZC6603Samples
Sorry if the photos are not that good. I suck at taking photos as my hands are somewhat shaky.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those photos are probably the best I have seen out of all of the reviews. Your photos seem to suffer much less of the compression issues I saw on the review photos. Could you attempt to take some lower light pictures? and possibly a few comparing HDR to non-HDR? Thanks.

Warrimonk said:
Those photos are probably the best I have seen out of all of the reviews. Your photos seem to suffer much less of the compression issues I saw on the review photos. Could you attempt to take some lower light pictures? and possibly a few comparing HDR to non-HDR? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I took a couple pictures with HDR on and off (check the link again). I'll try some low light shoots later tonight.

hush66 said:
Ok, I took a couple pictures with HDR on and off (check the link again). I'll try some low light shoots later tonight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm you sure you don't have the pics mislabeled? The first one looks more HDR-ish, but it's labeled as without.

-]Megacharge[- said:
Hmm you sure you don't have the pics mislabeled? The first one looks more HDR-ish, but it's labeled as without.
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Yes, I'm positive the photos were labelled correctly.

I agree the first (labelled no HDR) has better details in the shadows, very interesting.
I agree with people here the photo's that are shown before are not that flash, however the ones posted by hush66 seem to be better, although hard to know for sure because they don't seem to be full res.
I agree to comments here about phone camera being around marketing. HTC tried something around this with the HTC One, I gave the HTC marketing department a bollocking about this, they pulled this marketing off the site a few days later. They were claiming you couldn't tell the difference between photo's taken with a DSLR and HTC One, hahahaha. The sample pictures were 364x268 pixels in size. I challenged them to tell the difference between photos from my Old Nokia N70, Blackberry 8900 and HTC Desire at the same pixels.
The biggest benefit of a point and shoot over the camera of the phone are the optical zooms, image quality is the similar or better than a lot of point and shoots.

danw_oz said:
I agree with people here the photo's that are shown before are not that flash, however the ones posted by hush66 seem to be better, although hard to know for sure because they don't seem to be full res.
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I uploaded the original photos here: http://www.mediafire.com/?0ej013u7kkrdbv3

These are very good, thanks. I really like how it handles macro shots.

Damn, hush's photos are by far the best I've seen of everything posted from the Z so far. I just spend the past couple of hours sifting through random shots taken by the Z before finding this thread, so I'm very aware that the sharpness is quite a bit better in these pics.
Could it be there's a newer firmware update at play? Or are there still others out there taking photos with pre-production units? I know a lot of pics so far have come from websites that've recieved the Z, but what are the chances that Sony sent them pre-production phones vs. final retail units? It'd seem like a silly thing to do, but there's a real world difference between what they were able to do with the camera, and what hush was able to do.

Best of Sony... is not really great..

First, I'd like to say that I'm not trying to hate on Sony or bash them, just pointing out that what they call "the best of Sony" isn't exactly great or better than the competition, though I really just want to point out about the display and camera. I moved on from the Note 3 to the Z1 (lost my Note 3, wanted a good phone with a good camera for a low price so I got an Xperia Z1), and here's what I've noticed.
Display:
Well, there's no other way to say it: for a flagship phone, the Z1's display isn't that great. Viewing angles are poor, and viewing it at even small angles puts a whitish hue over it that just doesn't look good. It might be good for privacy, but otherwise it's plain to see that they're using an inferior IPS tech than other manufacturers. The Note 3 or the Nexus 5's displays are clearly much better, and so is the one on the HTC One from early 2013. I've heard that the Z1 Compact finally has a great screen among Sony devices, so that's great, but I feel that many Sony fans are clearly ignorant of how much greener the grass in on the other side when it comes to displays.
Camera
To be honest, this is the biggest disappointment I've had with the Z1. I don't know if Sony was focusing purely on lossless zoom when adding the 20MP camera, but when it comes to resolved detail and visible noise, the Note 3's camera was better despite no fancy tech and standard sensor. Sure, it has a 13MP camera while the Z1 takes photos at 8MP after downsampling, but in general its photos are clearer and more detailed. I've tried taking 20MP pics, and they just do not come out as great as one would expect (if they focused on lossless zoom, even that hasn't worked out well in general outdoor photos), and Sony has basically squandered a nice opportunity.
But on the flip side, I love some things about the camera. It's fast to open (mainly thanks to the camera button), it's smooth, and is quick to change modes, which helped a lot on my weekend trip with my family.) I don't like that HDR isn't a dedicated mode and is simply a switch when you select 8MP photos in Manual, but other than that, it's pretty good overall. In fact, the quickness and the shutter button are what make me ignore the fact that in quality I've come down to a noticeably not-so-great-at-capturing-detail camera (the Note 3 took ages to select modes, open the camera app, and open pictures.)
That's something that's true in Sony's software overall: it's beautiful, sleek, and quick and responsive. I do miss some features from the Note 3 (Multi-Window, Smart Stay (extremely useful when you can't be bothered touching the screen to keep it awake), some camera modes, and the better multitasking (my Z1 is abysmal at holding apps in memory, and not because it's just 2GB of RAM.) It feels good to use, and that's a pretty good thing.
But again, the screen and camera have let me down considerably. Again, on the flip side, I love the phone's build (though it's a bit too bulky, but then it is waterproof), and things like the lanyard slot and camera button (conveniences manufacturers have forgotten in their quest to copy and follow Apple since the first iPhone arrived on the market).
So in the end it's clear that "the best of Sony" just isn't the right thing to say when your tech is behind the competition in some things and just isn't as great as owners of flagship devices of the competition have become used to. The pricing is great, though, but I kinda don't think I'd want to save a few bucks next time I want a phone, not unless Sony focuses on making the hardware more complete regarding awesomeness.
Sorry for the rant, and again, I wasn't bashing, overall I like my Z1, just don't love it (yet)!
P.S.: My Galaxy Gear is also now sitting idle, but I guess we can blame Samsung for making its watch incompatible with other devices. It's a useful watch, but not in use anymore. There is a hack to make it work with others, I tried it with the Z1, but most stuff just doesn't work. So I guess I'll buy Sony's smartwatch next. :silly:
P.P.S.: I hope KitKat comes soon. I like that Sony takes time to test its software, but with Samsung and HTC moving pretty quick with KitKat despite having heavy skins, and Samsung has even managed to not introduce any quirky bugs (they disabled third-party accessories, but an update over the weekend reversed that), I really want KitKat to come quick. I want wireless printing support (Samsung had this even before KitKat, one of the few reasons I appreciate Samsung's bloat sometimes, it has some useful features), and it might also solve the issue of lack of RAM on the Z1, even if only a little bit.

This is what you do on Sunday afternoon? We know Z1 is not best like expected.

eclyptos said:
This is what you do on Sunday afternoon? We know Z1 is not best like expected.
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It's Sunday night where I am, and I had to get my thoughts out there after using the Z1's camera extensively the last two days (I bought the phone on Thursday.)

addicted2088 said:
It's Sunday night where I am, and I had to get my thoughts out there after using the Z1's camera extensively the last two days (I bought the phone on Thursday.)
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Saturday Night? You should be in some club! ..ahah...just kidding...I know...I am really disappointed by the camera too....what I can surely said is that the problem of the camera quality is related to the Software, but I don't know if we will get better pictures. Many telling me that the Z1 make amazing pictures but mine is not fake and I still not get clear pictures like it should be. Full of Noise, and with Unlocked Bootloader get even worse.

I understand what you're saying, and you have valid points, but these type of complaints come up with every phone out there.
The HTC One has exactly the same Camera complaint that you do. The UltraPixel was a big disappointment for some. The thing about the Z1's camera is that it CAN be improved. The camera is actually extremely good if you use it in manual, and the pictures that come out are the best I've seen on an Android phone. Superior Auto is a bit of a mess though. That's a software problem, not hardware, so we hope kitKat can fix that.
The display is a valid complaint, but I feel head on it's better than the Note 3. The Z1 has one of the most color accurate screens out there, which I prefer over AMOLED oversaturation. The viewing angles personally for me isn't a problem but yes, it is a negative about this phone.
So in the end it's clear that "the best of Sony" just isn't the right thing to say when your tech is behind the competition in some things and just isn't as great as owners of flagship devices of the competition have become used to
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Well, the Z1 IS the best of Sony...not sure what you're trying to say. I still feel like the Z1 is one of the best phones out there. Although lacking in some parts, the overall package is hard to beat: Snapdragon 800 processor, great battery life, great camera (Yes the camera is still very very good, just not as good as advertised), and best of all premium feeling. There is really no other phone that has all that together in one package right now. The Note 3 is better in some respects but for me feels cheap, and that is a HUGE con for me that overshadows anything else. The Nexus 5 has meh battery life and camera. The HTC One has a meh camera and lower end specs. The Galaxy S4 is no longer talked about when discussing high-end phones.
The point is there's no 'perfect' phone, and I concede that the Z1 does have weaknesses, but so does every other electronic device out there

addicted2088 said:
First, I'd like to say that I'm not trying to hate on Sony or bash them, just pointing out that what they call "the best of Sony" isn't exactly great or better than the competition
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Uh huh.
My advice to you, since it appears you wrote this to practice the writing career you're hoping to have, is to consider other career options. You're not good at this.

learn to make the picture and you will find Z1 camera is great. all the comparatives with Note 3 and the other smartphones take Z1 on the top of Android world
display is very good. poor viewing angle are not a gap, but I can assume it is subjective.
when I watch photos and videos on Z1 display they are much nicer than on other displays.

kantk20111 said:
I understand what you're saying, and you have valid points, but these type of complaints come up with every phone out there.
The HTC One has exactly the same Camera complaint that you do. The UltraPixel was a big disappointment for some. The thing about the Z1's camera is that it CAN be improved. The camera is actually extremely good if you use it in manual, and the pictures that come out are the best I've seen on an Android phone. Superior Auto is a bit of a mess though. That's a software problem, not hardware, so we hope kitKat can fix that.
The display is a valid complaint, but I feel head on it's better than the Note 3. The Z1 has one of the most color accurate screens out there, which I prefer over AMOLED oversaturation. The viewing angles personally for me isn't a problem but yes, it is a negative about this phone.
Well, the Z1 IS the best of Sony...not sure what you're trying to say. I still feel like the Z1 is one of the best phones out there. Although lacking in some parts, the overall package is hard to beat: Snapdragon 800 processor, great battery life, great camera (Yes the camera is still very very good, just not as good as advertised), and best of all premium feeling. There is really no other phone that has all that together in one package right now. The Note 3 is better in some respects but for me feels cheap, and that is a HUGE con for me that overshadows anything else. The Nexus 5 has meh battery life and camera. The HTC One has a meh camera and lower end specs. The Galaxy S4 is no longer talked about when discussing high-end phones.
The point is there's no 'perfect' phone, and I concede that the Z1 does have weaknesses, but so does every other electronic device out there
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Not so sure about that ...
HTC has the best software updates ATM and fastest after Google.
It has the best low light camera + best smart flash with the 5 modes
Average daylight shots
best front cam with wide angle
The best mics hdr mics
The best speakers
The best headphones sound
It's the most quality phone
It has the best screen in overall
It has unmatched feel in the hand
Ir blaster
Ois
60 fps video + zoe + really working hdr video
BlinkFeed which is still unmatched with copies
Decent battery life
Great xda development
Most of these things aren't yet matched by the competition which is shame imo since htc one is 1 year old and it's still considered the best overall package phone even in 2014 and I doubt anything but HTC one 2 will surpass it which is only a month or two away.

A lot on that list are gimmicks and a few items there are disputable. If HTC were as ahead of everyone as you make them appear to be, then that's extremely incongruent to the terrible shape the company is in.

Another "OMG Sony why did you do this to me" thread.
Sony rules!!

Shan89 said:
Not so sure about that ...
HTC has the best software updates ATM and fastest after Google.
It has the best low light camera + best smart flash with the 5 modes
Average daylight shots
best front cam with wide angle
The best mics hdr mics
The best speakers
The best headphones sound
It's the most quality phone
It has the best screen in overall
It has unmatched feel in the hand
Ir blaster
Ois
60 fps video + zoe + really working hdr video
BlinkFeed which is still unmatched with copies
Decent battery life
Great xda development
Most of these things aren't yet matched by the competition which is shame imo since htc one is 1 year old and it's still considered the best overall package phone even in 2014 and I doubt anything but HTC one 2 will surpass it which is only a month or two away.
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I don't want to get in a fight about whose phone is better, but everyone's got different preferences in a phone. A lot of the points you mentioned are opinions, and really can't be said in a comparison.
The most 'quality' phone and 'ummatched feel' is extremely subjective.
The Z1 is no less in quality than the HTC One and has as premium materials.
The Moto X and Z1 compact both have better feel, just because they're smaller.
Z1's battery life has been much better for me than HTC One in my experience.
Headphone sound is exactly the same for me. Beats is a gimmick and just a equalizer preset which I can also set on my Z1.
I will admit the HTC One's speakers is miles ahead of the Z1's and the display is better.
Camera as well is a lot better in the Z1 in daylight, but I remember you're the guy who wrote that HTC One vs Z1 camera test and I don't want to get in a fight again about that, so I won't go there. HTC One's better in low light, but the Z1 isn't that bad either.
The Z1's camera has a ton more features as well that are pretty cool to play around with. Gimmicks? Sure, but they're still fun. Also the Z1's viewfinder is much smoother.
All front facing cameras suck equally and don't believe there's a 'best' front facing camera.
edit: Oh, also concerning updates: This is the first time HTC have actually done well with updates. We'll see a year from now how they treat HTC One users. One X and One X+ users are stuck with official 4.2 while the Xperia T, which came out around the same time+, just got updated to 4.3. Sony might be slower at giving updates but they support their phones longer.
See, I just refuted half of your points. Of course you will disagree with me, but that's what's great about Android: everyone has different preferences and different opinions on what's the best. The HTC One is a fantastic phone and is my number 2 after the Z1, but it's still not the best for me. Nothing wrong with that.

omnius1 said:
A lot on that list are gimmicks and a few items there are disputable. If HTC were as ahead of everyone as you make them appear to be, then that's extremely incongruent to the terrible shape the company is in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What exactly is gimmic ?
Ir blaster is very useful
Ois is very helpful in low light / movement or any other type of using the camera / 60 fps video is smooth as camera app on z1 and looks like you're looking thru the glass when watching an video / hdr video is awesome as well at low light , so is the zoe especially if you wanna take out some snaps after which are full sized , I forgot slow motion video as well which is fun tho.
Smart flash is very useful indeed and can take photos from 5cm in pitch black up to 10 meters , with the walls it can go even further
Stereo frontal speakers ...how is this a gimmic lol , anything you do on a phone sounds crazy good + loud + it hits you in the face.
Full metal body is always a good thing , it screams premium ...
Feel in the hand indeed is unmatched due metal + device shape
hdr mics pick up the sound you wouldn't believe that the phone is doing it.
I've forgot also talking via phone is unmatched as well , you get stereo sound + you can talk in super loud environment perfectly fine.
Headphones sound wouldn't be a gimmic as well lol ... Ppl just use that ...on daily bases ..
Software updates is definitely not an gimmic we all want fast and working updates ASAP ,which is not the case with the Sony , it's far from it.
Xda development for me personally is very important since I love to flash + the fact HTC one has about 9/10 times more development it's a must have for me.
The only gimmicky thing would be if you don't like the the BlinkFeed that'd be all which can be turned off.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

We have to open a thread " @@Shan89 VS @kantk20111 " ..hahah..
Ladies and Gentlemen may I present, Shan89 from HTC Section VS kantk20111 from Sony section, Round 2.
FIGHT!
:laugh:

lol
I had Xperia z1 , camera sucked , phone was too hot and screen is utter **** , so I changed to HTC one for the same stuff you wrote here!

Honestly I am huge fan of HTC but actually I do not brought HTC One, which was cheaper, just because there is no micro SD Slot, and when Apps to SD will be available on Z1, or even Apk on internal and Data on SD on Custom Roms, I will not have regrets to have Z1.

eclyptos said:
We have to open a thread " @@Shan89 VS @kantk20111 " ..hahah..
Ladies and Gentlemen may I present, Shan89 from HTC Section VS kantk20111 from Sony section, Round 2.
FIGHT!
:laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah mate it ain't fight Lol. I was just pointing that there are devices which are quite more complete. Of course I can't think of anything else besides z1 that comes equal to m7 pretty much all devices lack design and quality which both z1 and htc have.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

eclyptos said:
We have to open a thread " [MENTION=3721363 [user=4914682]@Shan89[/user][/MENTION] VS @kantk20111 " ..hahah..
Ladies and Gentlemen may I present, Shan89 from HTC Section VS kantk20111 from Sony section, Round 2.
FIGHT!
:laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No more fighting lol, just 2 guys who really love their phones alot . For me the HTC One and Z1 will always be the top of Android, with Samsung, LG and the rest way below. Sony and HTC have style along with awesome hardware.
edit: @Shan89 beat me to it

Came from the GSIII and this phone blows it out of the water, so I'm happy.
Sent from my C6916 using xda app-developers app

I came from htc one to z1 for reasons like low battery camera quality purple tint issue and worst of all its easily breakable body which produced dents on a simple fall
Sent from my C6902 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Shan89 said:
HTC has the best software updates "ATM" and fastest after Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Coming from a T-Mobile HTC One S and being left hangin' with no further updates from 4.1 Jellbean...I jumped off their bandwagon and upgraded to the Sony Xperia Z1S.
I'm glad that HTC is finally wiling to support their top tier products, but a bit too late for me...HTC lost in my book.
The clear winner (for me) is Sony! :good:

Sony Xperia Z2 vs iPhone 5s vs Lumia 1520 low-light camera comparison

Really happy with this test , showing the excellent low light capabilities of the Xperia Z2,
Here:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NKTYPBuGH4

That's amazing
Hope the camera will impressive as in the show when I use it later

Wow
Just one word, Wow!

Ok wait i'm speachless now! THIS JUST SMASHED THE NOKIA AND I****5S

As a Z1 owner this makes me really happy. Both have the same camera, there's no reason why ours shouldn't be improved to be like the Z2's!

I think there is some NFC trick going around. See that plastic sticker on the box?

^ Are u joking? I doubt that they would be so stupid and cheat there, reviews would find that out really fast.

nikola1970 said:
^ Are u joking? I doubt that they would be so stupid and cheat there, reviews would find that out really fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:highfive:

Not a fair comparison. I have owned the 5S and 1520. Use a Note 3. The 1520 would still take a better or as good as shot if it was allowed to focus properly and not have the focus light covered
Not saying the Z2 will be poor just adding some balance.

Mmm.. maybe those box is made for the z2 showoff
Maybe after released to the market, there will be a better camera comparison. But I still love the z2 rather than 5s or the nokia or the s5

Something is very suspicious about this test. I don't know what they're doing, but I would not expect that dramatic of a difference with the Z2 camera in reality.

People need to understand how ISO, shutter speed and aperture work before making judgement. Unless you're just gonna use it for selfies in auto-mode... in which case, who gives a crap.

Itaintrite said:
People need to understand how ISO, shutter speed and aperture work before making judgement. Unless you're just gonna use it for selfies in auto-mode... in which case, who gives a crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EXACTLY! What people don't understand is that the shutter speed and ISO can be manually adjusted on the Lumia to take some very impressive low light shots that would never even be visible on the almighty 5S.

Not a very good comparison, we'll see what happens in real life. But still... suggesting NFC trickery with the sticker on the box sounds a little bit far-fetched...

You guys are so crazy for thinking z2 smashed the other two. It was a cheated test for god sake. The z2 used flash while the others didn't
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

SuperMane said:
I think there is some NFC trick going around. See that plastic sticker on the box?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? you think NFC was used here and it wasn't showed on the screen that NFC was used, how stupid can you be?
and doesn't 1520 support NFC too? and We all clearly saw that the flash is off on all three devices.
gavinfabl said:
Not a fair comparison. I have owned the 5S and 1520. Use a Note 3. The 1520 would still take a better or as good as shot if it was allowed to focus properly and not have the focus light covered
Not saying the Z2 will be poor just adding some balance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hypocrite, I clearly myself sometimes don't like the photo quality on Z1 cause it can do better than that and it's all with software issue and I compared 1520 with Xperia Z1 and It showed Xperia Z1 is better.
CBaSS736 said:
EXACTLY! What people don't understand is that the shutter speed and ISO can be manually adjusted on the Lumia to take some very impressive low light shots that would never even be visible on the almighty 5S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This test was done on fully auto not the manual mode, I know if it was taken on manual mode Xperia Z2 might not do well yet it will have some decent pictures, Remember that SA mode isn't bad all the time. It takes some great shots time to time.

What a shot!

aliHTCDHD said:
You guys are so crazy for thinking z2 smashed the other two. It was a cheated test for god sake. The z2 used flash while the others didn't
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well that test is kinda strange for sure but flash clearly wasnt used - you can even see the disabled flash symbol in that video

I've re-watched the video and I now understand how it did better but I will wait for comparisons by tech sites. For me all Sony cameras on xperias have been rubbish so I will wait. I don't expect it to beat One/2 or 1020 pureview in low light but we'll see.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

aliHTCDHD said:
You guys are so crazy for thinking z2 smashed the other two. It was a cheated test for god sake. The z2 used flash while the others didn't
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flash was turned off... you can clearly see that on the screen. However ridiculous the test might be - suggesting Sony rigged it with NFC or hidden/modified icon to conceal the use of flash is just as ridiculous...
This test it still useless though. Real photos are what matters and we will know more in the weeks to come.

Z5 Compact a joke?

Why is this Z5 compact such a joke? It almost has the same specs as the z3 compact and the new camera aint all that good. The new sensor might be good but what if you cant make the software work? Its like putting a retard in a F1 car. Look at these photosamples http://www.eprice.com.tw/mobile/talk/4523/4953454/1/rv/sony-xperia-z5-compact-review/ on the right you find a note 5, which has a sony sensor at 16MP and on the left you find the Z5 premium with a 21MP sensor but it cant shoot any good pictures in the dark..... So again sony ****ed it up.

Name a single <5" non-iOS phone that can compete on specifications.

supercakefish said:
Name a single <5" non-iOS phone that can compete on specifications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think he's specifically talking about the specs of the phone, just that the camera still sucks.
Sent from my D5803 using XDA Free mobile app

But I can't think of any <5" phone that can compete camera-wise (except the iPhone 6S)?
And I think we should wait for more photo samples to appear before we take final judgement. Most of these early photo samples are using non-final software.
Here's a review that says the camera is the best in class:
http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ria-z5-compact-review-best-smaller-smartphone

Hate to point out the obvious but every new phone that comes is an incremental improvement over its predecessor. Look at the iPhone, people(fools) queue for hours to be first to get the new model with 10% faster cpu, 10% bigger screen, 10% more pixels on the cmos sensor, and 20% less battery power. How i chuckle when i see iphone 6 owners, like junkies desperately looking for their next power fix! But, i digress.
A jack of all trades is a master of none. It is after all, a phone. It is not meant to be a world class, low light camera. My first camera phone was 0.3megapix. I thought it was pretty damn cool to have a camera at all. People just take it for granted nowadays. You want good low light photos, buy a camera. You know, them things you cant make phone calls on!

RiTCHiE007 said:
Why is this Z5 compact such a joke? It almost has the same specs as the z3 compact and the new camera aint all that good. The new sensor might be good but what if you cant make the software work? Its like putting a retard in a F1 car. Look at these photosamples http://www.eprice.com.tw/mobile/talk/4523/4953454/1/rv/sony-xperia-z5-compact-review/ on the right you find a note 5, which has a sony sensor at 16MP and on the left you find the Z5 premium with a 21MP sensor but it cant shoot any good pictures in the dark..... So again sony ****ed it up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The camera is a lot better than the Z3.
This thread is like giving a retard a keyboard and allowing them to post on forums.

kitch9 said:
The camera is a lot better than the Z3.
This thread is like giving a retard a keyboard and allowing them to post on forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really because i owned a z3c and own a z5c and the z5c isn't that great to begin with. So the only tard in this topic is you bro.

RiTCHiE007 said:
Not really because i owned a z3c and own a z5c and the z5c isn't that great to begin with. So the only tard in this topic is you bro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok bro....

You own a Z5C despite proclaiming it to be 'a joke' before it even went on sale? Huh... interesting.
Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

kitch9 said:
Ok bro....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Brothers love, eey?

RiTCHiE007 said:
Not really because i owned a z3c and own a z5c and the z5c isn't that great to begin with. So the only tard in this topic is you bro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I to had Z3C, were active in XDA section for it, and for one i KNOW Z5C has a better camera to start with. Only thing it doesn't have is battery life on KK with Z3C which owned every cell phone with flagship specs.
On Z3C my focus struggled at times, colors were oversaturated and in many occasions picture looked washed out. That is not the case on Z5C BUT there is a lot room for improvement and i think Sony will do it in time. Great potential with the IMX230 hardware.

wouldn't it be a good idea to make a static topic for flaming about a certain device, so we can focus on the good things instead of getting distracted by this kind of topics?

willumpie82 said:
wouldn't it be a good idea to make a static topic for flaming about a certain device, so we can focus on the good things instead of getting distracted by this kind of topics?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its not flaming its the truth but some just cant handle it.

bubimir13 said:
I to had Z3C, were active in XDA section for it, and for one i KNOW Z5C has a better camera to start with. Only thing it doesn't have is battery life on KK with Z3C which owned every cell phone with flagship specs.
On Z3C my focus struggled at times, colors were oversaturated and in many occasions picture looked washed out. That is not the case on Z5C BUT there is a lot room for improvement and i think Sony will do it in time. Great potential with the IMX230 hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes the camera on the z3c was worse then on the z5c but when you look at the pictures taken with a z5c you will see blurry edges and its almost impossible to make awesome macro shots. So even tho this camera is a bit better it still cant mess with other high ends like note 5 or LG g4 that also uses a sony sensor so thats why i think this z5c is kinda a joke. But if sony doesn't fix all these problems like laggy OS then this will be my last sony phone.

If you really think the performance is as bad as you say you should properly try another vendor! In my experience, they are at least as bad and some a lot worse..
Honestly, I would prefer a smaller Nexus, and might even go for the 5X despite the size.. Nexus device are best in performance (os lag eg), the rest are catching up lately!
You do know that the standard resolution in the app is set to 8M, right?.. I did read its better at that res, but you should maybe try and change it, it goes up to 23 you know..
Sendt fra min E5823 med Tapatalk

supercakefish said:
You own a Z5C despite proclaiming it to be 'a joke' before it even went on sale? Huh... interesting.
Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, because before it was out i judged on sample photo's and now that i own 1 i can confirm it that everything is knew before buying 1 was true. Even in clear daylight most photo's always seem to have a bit of blur on the right side. And batterylife is a bit wonky.

RiTCHiE007 said:
Yup, because before it was out i judged on sample photo's and now that i own 1 i can confirm it that everything is knew before buying 1 was true. Even in clear daylight most photo's always seem to have a bit of blur on the right side. And batterylife is a bit wonky.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to hear that. I had the same problem (except on the left edge instead), returned for a replacement and the second one is much better. It only blurs out the very far corners and only rarely, most pictures are fine. Have you still time for an exchange?
My battery life experience is pretty decent.
Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

supercakefish said:
Sorry to hear that. I had the same problem (except on the left edge instead), returned for a replacement and the second one is much better. It only blurs out the very far corners and only rarely, most pictures are fine. Have you still time for an exchange?
My battery life experience is pretty decent.
Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No but i can always send it back to the repair center because they sold me a faulty unit but i need to make more photo's to give it a final judgement tho. Which color phone you got and what rev number is on the box if i may ask?

RiTCHiE007 said:
No but i can always send it back to the repair center because they sold me a faulty unit but i need to make more photo's to give it a final judgement tho. Which color phone you got and what rev number is on the box if i may ask?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yellow. 1298-3810 Rev 1. My first one which had the blur was also the exact same though so I'm not sure whether that number means all that much.
Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

supercakefish said:
Yellow. 1298-3810 Rev 1. My first one which had the blur was also the exact same though so I'm not sure whether that number means all that much.
Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea guess the color has nothing to do with is then because lots of white one's have the most problems it seems.