This video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqdHFmKq57c
Says if you drain your htc hd 2 battery full out. And then charge it full. It will work longer.
Is this right? And some pp says its bad for your battery.
106 views... no replies ;(
well.. the idea originated from laptop battery tricks and some facts about the technical side of the problem.
If i try to simply put it, a laptop battery contains (beside the actual battery) a small pcb that has a charge/discharge controller and a eeprom memory chip (among others). The point of having these is also pretty simple. The battery actively communicates with the laptop via a i2c interface, so that the laptop always knows the state of the plugged in battery. The laptop itself can't measure the current or voltage of the battery and doesn't know it's capacity or composition. Instead the chips inside the battery does all this work and reports it to the laptop. That's how the laptop knows when you plug a different capacity battery or other things. The percentage of power remaining is measured by the chip inside the battery and stored in a volatile memory also contained on the small pcm inside. This memory can be accesed by the laptop and from there, it will display you the remaining power left (in percents %). This is updated as long as there is any notable difference from what the chip measures from the battery cells and what was the last measurement made. So.. what would happen if you would charge the battery to 100% full, then disassemble it, remove the 100% charged cells and replace them with 50% charged ones.
When you would start the laptop next time, it will STILL display 100% charge, the last measurement, and will assume this state is valid for the cells. When the physical batteries will drop the charge level with 1% the laptop would display 99%. So around 50% displayed the batteries will actually be empty. When you charge them back, the laptop would start from 50% and go back to 100%. The actual batteries would get only 50% energy, so they won't get fully charged, therefore you get less battery life.
Of course, this is a very exagerated scenario, but in practice, sometimes small errors can occur, when the physical level of the batteries is a bit different to what the battery controller recorded. In this case, a full discharge then recharge can help to correct this issues (but only if you're talking about couple percents - not more).
But... when we're talking about phones, things are quite different. The communication algorithm between the battery and phone is more simpler and the battery itself doesn't know it's charge state. The phone will actively probe the battery in order to update it's status. So, if i remove the battery and drain it somehow, the phone will display it's correct physical charge next time i plug it in. This is possible because a phone battery and the phone itself is simpler by design then a laptop for example.
So why laptops used such complicated charge algorithms? Mainly because 2 reasons. One because laptop batteries are dangerous things. If improperly charged or damaged they CAN explode. If the cells are damaged, overcharged or the temperature is high, the controller chip will change the state of the eeprom memory so that the laptop and it's OS to see that the battery was damaged/empty and shutdown at once. The other reasons is quite commercial based. The charge controller counts each charge cycle and stores it in that eeprom memory. So if the manufacturer specified a specific number for the charge cycles, when this number is reached, the controller will simply rewrite the eeprom and state that the battery is "dead". So.. go get a new one.
I disassembled many batteries and among "dead" ones, i found many cases where the cells were actually in pretty good shape and functional. I measured cells with more then half the original design capacity still available, but the battery pack was reported as being "dead".
So back to hd2. As i've stated, phones use simpler charge/discharge algorithms. The better part is that they are more simplistic and efficient at measuring the actual physical state of the battery. So, a calibration isn't required like on some laptops.
However, sometimes is good to have a full discharge/recharge cycle. This being because of the chemistry of such a battery. It won't do miracles, it won't make the battery last longer on a charge but it could prolong overall battery life. Lithium is a very reactive element, a deep discharge about once a month will help reduce the effects of naturally occuring oxidation of such materials in an electrolytic compound.
I'm really frustrated because i really used to love the n7 so much I was an early adopter and bought another one after I dropped my first and then went on to buy my girlfriend one. But after being plagued with this issue and stuck on 4.1 its just not the same anymore since I cant flash custom roms all day :/
I've been having a charging issue with android 4.2.1 since it came out (both stock and all the roms I tried) but I noticed that whenever I reverted to 4.1.2 the issue went away completely. So I've been waiting for 4.2.2 to come out for a while now to see if it fixed the issue and after flashing the update tonight it seems to have the same problem.
I've tried searching for months now and haven't found any answers.
So this is the issue with both 4.2.1 and 4.2.2:
The battery charges at an insanely slow pace to the point that it ruins the tablet completely. I'll plug it in over night for 8+ hours and it will not gain more then 40% battery life in that time.
Its to the point that when I was just using it right now on the charger with brightness turned all the way down and nothing on other then sync and WiFi that light web browsing for 10 mins caused it to discharge a percent after being plugged in for 19 minutes.
Notes:
Its a c70 16gb
I tried 3 different stock N7 chargers with stock cables as well as trying them with other cables.
I'm not plugged into any kind of extension cords and I've tried multiple wall sockets at different locations.
My girlfriends nexus 7 32g charges fine on 4.2.1 and I have not updated her to 4.2.2 to test yet.
I haven't checked the battery connection because like I said whenever I revert to stock 4.1.2 or any 4.1.2 rom it charges in 4 hours flat or 6 hours with heavy usage while charging.
So anyone have any ideas? If not I guess I have to rma.
Do both, yours and your girlfriend's devices take that long to charge?
sl4y3r88 said:
Do both, yours and your girlfriend's devices take that long to charge?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope her nexus 7 charges fine. ( a little slower on 4.2 then 4.1 but nothing like mine)
Her nexus does have issues with turning on sometimes on 4.2.1 like a lot of other users but its nothing holding the power button for 10 seconds doesn't fix.
It also just noticed it seems to discharge at an extremely fast pace. (still on 4.2.2)
It just dropped from 55% to 51% in the time I've typed these responses with brightness all the way down.
So anyone want to try and help me figure this out before I send it in friday? I called it in to Google play device support to try and report the software bug and they said its the first they heard of it and they would pass it on but I felt like the rep didnt want to help as I bought it from a third party. I'm willing to do any tests suggested and hop between software versions to try and figure out this bug.
Why do you think it is a "software bug" when millions of people running the "same software" don't experience the same behavior?
I realize that software can exhibit data-dependent behaviors, and thus exhibit low occurrence rates... but there is no "software" involved in charging the battery.
Do you think a booted Linux kernel is needed to charge a battery? How would the battery get charged when the device is turned off in that case? C'mon!
Send it back and tell them the battery (or charge contoller CIRCUIT) is defective.
If it's out of warranty, PAY them to replace it.
bftb0 said:
Why do you think it is a "software bug" when millions of people running the "same software" don't experience the same behavior?
I realize that software can exhibit data-dependent behaviors, and thus exhibit low occurrence rates... but there is no "software" involved in charging the battery.
Do you think a booted Linux kernel is needed to charge a battery? How would the battery get charged when the device is turned off in that case? C'mon!
Send it back and tell them the battery (or charge contoller CIRCUIT) is defective.
If it's out of warranty, PAY them to replace it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then how do you explain that if right now I flash back to 4.1.2 it will work fine? If you want I'll provide screenshots.
I just flashed back to 4.1.2 this morning and it worked perfectly. Just now I flashed codefires 4.2.2 build and the problems back.
Please explain how that is hardware related.
I may of jumped the gun assuming it was a charging issue. It seems like it might be a battery drain issue. Here's a couple screenshots from a fresh install of codefirex 4.2.2 build.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app
All I was trying to say is that when the OS is booted, at most all it does is monitor battery voltage and current - it doesn't get actively involved in control of charging circuitry.
At most this historical data can be used to *predict* when the battery will run out of juice, and this number is what is shown to the user as a % charge number. Hopefully that allows the prediction to be sort of correct as the battery ages and it's characteristics change.
This "calibration data" is only used for prediction - it does absolutely nothing to alter the rate at which current is drawn from the battery by the motherboard, nor for attempting to alter the behavior of a battery charge controller.
Li-Ion and Li-Polymer batteries are indeed complicated enough that they should not be charged by extremely simple circuits if a long operating lifetime is desired. For this purpose though, monolithic battery charge controllers chips are used - they do not need any assistance of a micro-controller or advanced CPU running a modern OS. That's why they are able to charge batteries rapidly and appropriately when the motherboard is in a "powered down" state.
Relative to a big multi-core CPU chip, which might have hundreds of millions of transistors, battery charge controllers are extremely small circuits - they are sold by the billions and cost in the ballpark of one to several pennies. They don't need the support of a CPU or even a microcontroller to operate correctly.
Good luck with your tab; I hope you enjoy it.
bftb0 said:
All I was trying to say is that when the OS is booted, at most all it does is monitor battery voltage and current - it doesn't get actively involved in control of charging circuitry.
At most this historical data can be used to *predict* when the battery will run out of juice, and this number is what is shown to the user as a % charge number. Hopefully that allows the prediction to be sort of correct as the battery ages and it's characteristics change.
This "calibration data" is only used for prediction - it does absolutely nothing to alter the rate at which current is drawn from the battery by the motherboard, nor for attempting to alter the behavior of a battery charge controller.
Li-Ion and Li-Polymer batteries are indeed complicated enough that they should not be charged by extremely simple circuits if a long operating lifetime is desired. For this purpose though, monolithic battery charge controllers chips are used - they do not need any assistance of a micro-controller or advanced CPU running a modern OS. That's why they are able to charge batteries rapidly and appropriately when the motherboard is in a "powered down" state.
Relative to a big multi-core CPU chip, which might have hundreds of millions of transistors, battery charge controllers are extremely small circuits - they are sold by the billions and cost in the ballpark of one to several pennies. They don't need the support of a CPU or even a microcontroller to operate correctly.
Good luck with your tab; I hope you enjoy it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for taking the time to write out this detailed explanation. I read it over a couple times and that all makes a lot of sense and now I have a little better understanding of how things work charging wise.
But I still can't wrap my head around how the problem DISAPPEARS COMPLETELY on any 4.1 based build...
I'm not trying to contradict you in anyway it seems like you are way more knowledgeable then me on the subject.
It just doesn't make any sense and I was hoping you could make more of it for me.
Maybe it isn't the charging but a battery drain issue something on 4.2 based builds is draining more current then the charger can dish out.
But while i was doing research I read that chargers up the current they dish out if the device is in use. Is that correct?
I've looked into the media server bug but as I just did a fresh install of stock 4.2.1 and haven't changed or added anything to the file structure that wasn't included in the factory image, I also went through and turned off the keyboard press sound and all other sounds like explained in some of the threads I have read. I also read that the problem is supposed to be fixed in 4.2.2. I also haven't installed any apps from the market.
I guess all I'm looking for is the answer to this question:
Could there really be a hardware related problem of any sort (not just charging and battery problems but anything) that causes problems with 4.2 based builds specifically but doesn't cause problems with 4.1?
If the answer is yes then I don't have to feel bad about sending it in but if its software based issues I'll be upset that I wasn't able to fix it and gave up.
Have you let the battery drain all the way or do you just plug it in at a certain point? if not let it get to the point were it will turn itself off. if the battery with the cross in it stays for more than it would take for 1% to drain then it just might be your battery stats file. even if its not let it drain and then charge it while its off. you can check the battery by pushing the power button quick. i know i have had this problem with other devices that were fixed by doing this. and my N7 did it last night were i updated and plugged it in, it was at 60% and when i woke up it was at 46%.
projectzro said:
Have you let the battery drain all the way or do you just plug it in at a certain point? if not let it get to the point were it will turn itself off. if the battery with the cross in it stays for more than it would take for 1% to drain then it just might be your battery stats file. even if its not let it drain and then charge it while its off. you can check the battery by pushing the power button quick. i know i have had this problem with other devices that were fixed by doing this. and my N7 did it last night were i updated and plugged it in, it was at 60% and when i woke up it was at 46%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll give this a try right now then post results, the battery is already pretty low so It shouldn't take very long. Thanks for the response.
projectzro said:
Have you let the battery drain all the way or do you just plug it in at a certain point? if not let it get to the point were it will turn itself off. if the battery with the cross in it stays for more than it would take for 1% to drain then it just might be your battery stats file. even if its not let it drain and then charge it while its off. you can check the battery by pushing the power button quick. i know i have had this problem with other devices that were fixed by doing this. and my N7 did it last night were i updated and plugged it in, it was at 60% and when i woke up it was at 46%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I let it run dry and am getting some weird behavior...
The dead battery symbol did not pop at all. It actually booted played the low battery sound half way through the nexus logo loaded into the OS and immediately was greeted by the battery to low logo powering down message and then it returned off. It did this cycle all the way through three times in a row before holding the power button did nothing. I let it sit for a minute before trying again and I got another boot out of it all the way to the OS again. But I've yet to be greeted by the battery with the cross symbol. Holding the power button will do the cycle described above or do nothing at all.
krisserapin said:
But while i was doing research I read that chargers up the current they dish out if the device is in use. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the 120v->5v converter certainly can be providing more current @5v because the device is active, but that's only because the motherboard is drawing current in parallel with the battery charging circuit. It doesn't mean the battery charge rate is higher.
krisserapin said:
Could there really be a hardware related problem of any sort (not just charging and battery problems but anything) that causes problems with 4.2 based builds specifically but doesn't cause problems with 4.1?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose so.
I would do a few things to determine whether that is a reasonable hypotheses, though.
1) See how fast the battery charges with the tablet turned off. Should be close to 40%/hour for a new battery. You know there is no "software" running with the tablet turned off, so if you don't see some reasonable number here (say > 20%/hr) then a bad battery or charge controller circuit in the tab are the most likely culprits. Also, if the temperature rise of the tablet while doing this seems higher than the gf's unit, that would implicate the battery, not the charging circuit.
2) There's software, and then there's software. (Preinstalled vs. User installed) Run the battery down a ways, and then observe the battery charging rate with the device on but screen off (sleeping), but on a stock 4.2 install with ZERO user apps installed. Then, install/restore all your favorite apps, reboot, maybe use a couple of your fave apps, and repeat the same charge rate trial (screen off/sleeping). Are there large differences between the two cases? If so, that would implicate one of your apps in causing either lots of additional compute operations or preventing entry into the LP0 state (perhaps because of wakelocks?)
The thing is, the N7 battery is rated at 4325 mAh; that is sort of the same thing as 4.325 amps of current for 1 hour. (Voltage range of roughly 4v to 3.5v).
So, if a "good battery" can be charged in 2.5hrs, that is sort of like stuffing 1.73 amps into the battery for that time (1.73 x 2.5 = 4.325 A-h or 4325 mA-h). That's pretty near to the max capacity of the AC charger (2A)
Now, some users have reported discharging their tabs in 4 hours under heavy continuous use; that would be about 1.08 amps for 4 hours.
Since the wall charger is rated to produce 2A, this suggests that very heavy usage simultaneous with charging would indeed cause battery charging to slow down significantly - let's suppose it drops from 1.73a to 0.65a. Now it takes the battery 6.6hrs to charge ... but that is still just over 15%/hr ... with the tab in active use.
But that's not what you were noticing - you were seeing much worse charge rates than this when the tablet was supposed to be more or less idle!
Finally I should point out that I previously mentioned that the % charge number is a prediction, not a measurement! If for some reason this number were screwed up, then the "charge rate" observations could be completely screwed up. (Think of this as being analogous to trying to partially fill a gas tank in a car or estimate fuel mileage with a broken gas gauge) The only way to be sure that you are not falling victim to something like this is to record battery voltages - the 100% level should be up around 4v, and the 10% values down around 3.5v.
You can observe this value at /sys/devices/platform/tegra-i2c.4/i2c-4/4-0055/power_supply/battery/voltage_now
(note value is reported in uV)
Whew - long post. It doesn't directly answer your question about "why was 4.1 so different?" - but gives you an idea about why I was skeptical when you saw charging rates as low as you did.
I dunno, maybe the % charge prediction value numbers are screwy on your tab for some strange reason in 4.2, perhaps because of a minor hardware difference. I can't rule it out - I once saw a bug expression in a hardware/software combination that required three independent conditions (from three separate vendors!) to have precise configurations before the bug would show itself.
I hope this post gives you some ideas to try; it certainly doesn't give a solution.
Good luck - if you feel like spending more time investigating, go for it; just don't let the clock run out on the warranty period if you have one left.
bftb0 said:
Well, the 120v->5v converter certainly can be providing more current @5v because the device is active, but that's only because the motherboard is drawing current in parallel with the battery charging circuit. It doesn't mean the battery charge rate is higher.
I suppose so.
I would do a few things to determine whether that is a reasonable hypotheses, though.
1) See how fast the battery charges with the tablet turned off. Should be close to 40%/hour for a new battery. You know there is no "software" running with the tablet turned off, so if you don't see some reasonable number here (say > 20%/hr) then a bad battery or charge controller circuit in the tab are the most likely culprits. Also, if the temperature rise of the tablet while doing this seems higher than the gf's unit, that would implicate the battery, not the charging circuit.
2) There's software, and then there's software. (Preinstalled vs. User installed) Run the battery down a ways, and then observe the battery charging rate with the device on but screen off (sleeping), but on a stock 4.2 install with ZERO user apps installed. Then, install/restore all your favorite apps, reboot, maybe use a couple of your fave apps, and repeat the same charge rate trial (screen off/sleeping). Are there large differences between the two cases? If so, that would implicate one of your apps in causing either lots of additional compute operations or preventing entry into the LP0 state (perhaps because of wakelocks?)
The thing is, the N7 battery is rated at 4325 mAh; that is sort of the same thing as 4.325 amps of current for 1 hour. (Voltage range of roughly 4v to 3.5v).
So, if a "good battery" can be charged in 2.5hrs, that is sort of like stuffing 1.73 amps into the battery for that time (1.73 x 2.5 = 4.325 A-h or 4325 mA-h). That's pretty near to the max capacity of the AC charger (2A)
Now, some users have reported discharging their tabs in 4 hours under heavy continuous use; that would be about 1.08 amps for 4 hours.
Since the wall charger is rated to produce 2A, this suggests that very heavy usage simultaneous with charging would indeed cause battery charging to slow down significantly - let's suppose it drops from 1.73a to 0.65a. Now it takes the battery 6.6hrs to charge ... but that is still just over 15%/hr ... with the tab in active use.
But that's not what you were noticing - you were seeing much worse charge rates than this when the tablet was supposed to be more or less idle!
Finally I should point out that I previously mentioned that the % charge number is a prediction, not a measurement! If for some reason this number were screwed up, then the "charge rate" observations could be completely screwed up. (Think of this as being analogous to trying to partially fill a gas tank in a car or estimate fuel mileage with a broken gas gauge) The only way to be sure that you are not falling victim to something like this is to record battery voltages - the 100% level should be up around 4v, and the 10% values down around 3.5v.
You can observe this value at /sys/devices/platform/tegra-i2c.4/i2c-4/4-0055/power_supply/battery/voltage_now
(note value is reported in uV)
Whew - long post. It doesn't directly answer your question about "why was 4.1 so different?" - but gives you an idea about why I was skeptical when you saw charging rates as low as you did.
I dunno, maybe the % charge prediction value numbers are screwy on your tab for some strange reason in 4.2, perhaps because of a minor hardware difference. I can't rule it out - I once saw a bug expression in a hardware/software combination that required three independent conditions (from three separate vendors!) to have precise configurations before the bug would show itself.
I hope this post gives you some ideas to try; it certainly doesn't give a solution.
Good luck - if you feel like spending more time investigating, go for it; just don't let the clock run out on the warranty period if you have one left.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow thank you so much for the help. I'll play around with this tonight and see what happens. If I can't figure it out by the morning I think I'll be able to RMA it without feeling like I just rolled over and let my n7 get the best of me.
So after charging it on stock 4.2.1 with the power completely off it only charged 3% in a little over a hour and voltages read 3.6. I'm gonna leave it on the charger over night turned on starting from 3% with only two extra battery monitoring apps installed and report back in the morning with screenshots of the results. After that ill probably revert to 4.1.2 drain the battery fully, charge it off for an hour report the values then let it charge fully with the battery apps on for reference take a few more screenshots then lock the bootloader install the ota and ship it off to good old ASUS since it sounds like its hardware from whats been explained.
FWIW, I drained my N7 last night (LOL, typing novels into XDA threads) - when I finished I was at 6% charge - that was 3.66v. In the morning @ 100%, the battery voltage was 4.1-something.
Sounds to me like you've definitely got a hardware problem.
Good luck with the RMA.
Canyou help me?
Since I flashed 4.2.2 my 240V-USB charger only cahrges thes battery about 5% in one hour.
Before (with 4.2.1) It was definitely faster. It charged more tha 5% per hour (maybe 20-25%).
I double checked the plug in the socket. checked the correct fit of the USB cable on the docking station.
Everything fits tight. No wiggle.
It must be software related, since it started after flashing the OTA zip from 4.2.1 to 4.2.2
Polarfuchs said:
Canyou help me?
Since I flashed 4.2.2 my 240V-USB charger only cahrges thes battery about 5% in one hour.
Before (with 4.2.1) It was definitely faster. It charged more tha 5% per hour (maybe 20-25%).
I double checked the plug in the socket. checked the correct fit of the USB cable on the docking station.
Everything fits tight. No wiggle.
It must be software related, since it started after flashing the OTA zip from 4.2.1 to 4.2.2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From a partially charged state, say below 50%, turn the device off, (NOT sleeping, but powered OFF) and put it on the charger for one hour.
It should charge at around 30-40%/hr.
As I pointed out above, how is it possible that software would be affecting the charging with the device turned OFF?
I believe you are seeing exactly what you report; my best guess is that a hardware problem occurred just about coincidentally with your upgrade. Just coincidence - not causation.
You also should inspect the battery voltage (see above for path in /sys) in case something crazy is happening with the %charge *prediction* (it is not a measurement) - because the total charging range is from about 3.65v-4.15v, a normal charge rate should be roughly 150 to 200 mV/hr
good luck
I flashed a new rom and in cwm, there is no wipe battery options.
- Can i do battery calibration with market applications?
- I always use usb charging. Should i use usb while doing calibration?
IMHO battery calibration is almost mith. Still you can use applications from market and see for yourself is battery suffers any improvement. But callibration is almost same charging from 0% to 100%.
Why do u need usb when phones have fully charge? :laugh: Just do that thing
Because wall charge is far away and usb charging is making battery less hotter, the half ampere of wall charge. So i think it makes battery live longer.
To make battery %0, should i power on a lot of times after power off itself? And there are some apps that use a lot ofthings to drain battery fast. ARe they suitable for those?
Because wall charge is far away and usb charging is making battery less hotter, the half ampere of wall charge. So i think it makes battery live longer.
To make battery %0, should i power on a lot of times after power off itself? And there are some apps that use a lot ofthings to drain battery fast. ARe they suitable for those?
Cursed Chico said:
Because wall charge is far away and usb charging is making battery less hotter, the half ampere of wall charge. So i think it makes battery live longer.
To make battery %0, should i power on a lot of times after power off itself? And there are some apps that use a lot ofthings to drain battery fast. ARe they suitable for those?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok. No just turn on phone one more time after he shutdown first time. You can listen music or watch videos. But don't stress that much battery doesn't like to go out 0% :silly:
dark_vader said:
Ok. No just turn on phone one more time after he shutdown first time. You can listen music or watch videos. But don't stress that much battery doesn't like to go out 0% :silly:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YEsterday i used app, it deleted battery and i used normal usage today. I froze autostart and greeinfy and juice defender application for this first time. IT went about 10 hours. The mobile data was always on. I did not awake phone too much.
To %89, it went very fast again. Then it slowed. From %50 %60 to %30 40 it again fast. Then it jumped %14 to %5. The last %5 lasted very long. ABout maybe 45 minutes. I dont understand my battery. Then i opened 2-3 times to finish battery after shuttingh.
Now its power is off and it is charing ac. In screen i cant see the level of battery so i will wait 3-4 hours. Then will open. Maybe i can wait untilmornning, 7-8 hours because i can sleep.
IS it anything wrong i did_
Hello!
Some time ago I found inside Advanced Charging Controller this feature called battery idle mode. When the ASUS ROG phone 3 was launched I immediately noticed the pass through charging.
Basically it is the ability to run the phone directly from the charger and stop charging the battery in certain conditions (like when the battery is hot, or it reaches 80 %). On the long run this could mean a big improvement in battery longevity, especially for people that use their phones while charging (overnight charging, in-car navi, gaming, etc.)
Sadly, this feature is kernel dependent. So I am trying to figure out if there is a kernel that supports this feature. I've tried searching around the development area, but there was nothing obvious and I didn't dig through the discussions.
Thanks!
Did you happen to find a kernel with support?
Sadly I haven't.
But I did find a different trick: set ACC to charge with 0 A (or any other very low value) and you'd basically get the same outcome (the battery will stay at the same value). Now I am not sure if this is in fact activating some trickle charging mode (and wearing the battery in the process)...