Related
I have recently purchased a Mugen 3000 mA battery. I am thrilled with the extended battery life after fully charging and discharging it three times as recommended by the manufacturer. What I find annoying is that WM6 no longer gives accurate information regarding remaining battery strength. If I run the battery down to 2%, remove the battery and restart WM6 says 37%. At 2% I can repeat and WM6 still says 37%. After running down to 2% a third time and repeating WM6 says around 10%. After that it varies a bit but you get the picture.
What I would like to know is if one of you geniuses out there has discovered a registry edit, hack or 3rd party software that will provide accurate battery info so I don't have to be distracted by having my battery say 2% for hours on end or repeatedly remove and restart.
BTW, BatteryStatus Ver. 1.04.200 beta2 build 0173 reports the same incorrect info and so does SPB Mobile Shell 1.5 Home Tab.
Thanks in advance for your informed guidance. OK, that is laying it on a bit thick but I always highly recommend this site to anyone I know interested in really learning how to take full advantage of that little computer in their pocket.
Take a search on XDA for Ariel monitor maybe it solves your problem.
Thanks for the suggestion. It is a nice little program but it suffers from the same problem. I suspect I need to find a way to change the mA capacity WM6 bases it's battery calculations. I don't know if that can be done with a registry edit or if there is a third party battery monitor that has an option to change the battery capacity for calculation of percentage remaining or better yet auto detects the actual battery capacity. Ideally it would be able to both accurately read remaining percentage and make reasonably accurate time remaining estimates based on current and historical battery drain data.
It is like driving a car with a broken gas gage. Sure, you can use the odometer to estimate how much gas you have left but you are always worried your estimate is off and you will be left stranded without a phone ... oops crossed metaphors.
How do the rest of the users with extended batteries handle this irritating situation?
Bump. I can't believe i'm the only one with this problem.
I know this problem also i will wait with buying a high capacy battery until i find such a hack
The Kaiser uses a smartbattery. The battery capacity is based on the information that a small processor inside the battery tells the phone's main processor. There are several things that could be the problem:
1. The small processor in the 3rd party battery is programmed with the old specs for the standard battery. The is nothing you could do about this.
2. The small processor needs to be calibrated. You would do this as follows; set your phone to never turn off no matter how low the battery got. Now, run the phone down until the thing dies from lack of power. Then charge it all the way up. This should fix that issue. I don't recomend doing it many times, because it is not good for Lion batteries to be fully discharged too often.
This is a very valid issue which I have faced many times when using a 3rd party extended battery with other phones.
Not sure how to solve it though, although I have the 3000mah on order myself.
I think the battery reading is given by the battery itself, and most of these 3rd party manufacturers don't really care to put a smart processor in the battery (to reduce costs/make it smaller/etc).
I have the exact same issue and although it is a nuisance, I have found a workaround to keep using the phone. Simply physically removing the battery and replacing it will increase your remaining battery power substantially. I normally wait till the first low battery reminder to do this. Also, how do I set the phone to never turn off no matter how low the battery gets? This would also be fine with me.
utbiglall said:
I have the exact same issue and although it is a nuisance, I have found a workaround to keep using the phone. Simply physically removing the battery and replacing it will increase your remaining battery power substantially. I normally wait till the first low battery reminder to do this. Also, how do I set the phone to never turn off no matter how low the battery gets? This would also be fine with me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't run into this issue until I reflashed my ROM to one with W6.1. Then, rather than get 12-13 hrs with my 3amp battery, I'd get 6. I used my original battery, but when I put the 3amp back in, I still had 47% left.
It's the ROM, and until there's a fix, it would be a pain to pull and replace the battery just to work around. I've done this several times recently when I'm on battery power, but I'd rather not.
Anybody heard of any other fixes, outside monitor, or do we wait until we get a Windows Mobile 6.1 fix?
Still no luck?
Hello,
Has anyone been able to find a solution for this. I am ordering the extended battery today. I will try to fully discharge it and then recharge it as was suggested and report back.
I emailed Mugen. We went back and forth with them trying to troubleshoot whether it's the battery or OS. They were clueless, but did offer an RMA to replace the battery. I pay the postage. Not sure if I'll send it back if it's the OS. I pull and replace the battery right now. It's a real pain, and I hate opening the case so much, but it's the only way I can get an accurate read.
PhoenixAG said:
This is a very valid issue which I have faced many times when using a 3rd party extended battery with other phones.
Not sure how to solve it though, although I have the 3000mah on order myself.
I think the battery reading is given by the battery itself, and most of these 3rd party manufacturers don't really care to put a smart processor in the battery (to reduce costs/make it smaller/etc).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The processor is required for these types of lithium ion batteries because it regulates the charging of the battery. If it didn't the battery would not charge properly, or maybe not even charge at all.
There is no solution for now, people from other forums tries to patch battdrvr.dll.
But two things may help a little:
1.You may completely disable battery monitoring
HKLM\Drivers\BuiltIn\Battery rename or remove string battdrvr.dll
But you lost monitoring completely.
2. change HKLM\Drivers\BuiltIn\Battery\Order change value from 15 (in my case) to 0. - After this battery lasts longer until power off.
There is not complete hardware or software solution for this problem. We need to wait.
Low Battery warning:
By default, a PPC will sound a warning sound when the battery is running low (10%, fixed value), but there's no way to disable or change the notification. To enable this, so that it is visible in the "Sounds & Notifications" control panel, set:
HKCU\ControlPanel\Notifications\{A877D663-239C-47a7-9304-0D347F580408}\Default = "Low battery warning" (REGSZ string, no quotes)
Anybody have any updates on this? I have noticed this more on WM6.1, but it was still an issue on WM6. I just find this so annoying!
Is there any radio that can fix this? I noiced that this battery reading issue only occurs when the Phone Signal is on. When off, it never happens to me. Or it seems. So it has something to do with the radio.
bump, anyone got a solution?
this is very interesting, i bought the seidio 3200 battery i am having the same problems. i just tired the
change HKLM\Drivers\BuiltIn\Battery\Order change value from 15 (in my case) to 0
i am going to see how that works out throughout the day
Tried It
I am having same issue, reset the registry key to "0" and ran for a full day, no change, still incorrect reading. I have a 2700 Mah battery and the charge indicater is completely wrong on it. I have cycled the battery as per reccoemndations, but still get wrong power remaining readings. Can remove the battery and resets itselft to a more correct reading.
I am out of ideas, guess we need someone from HTC to chime in with a hardware fix.
MWS
ms0529 said:
I am having same issue, reset the registry key to "0" and ran for a full day, no change, still incorrect reading. I have a 2700 Mah battery and the charge indicater is completely wrong on it. I have cycled the battery as per reccoemndations, but still get wrong power remaining readings. Can remove the battery and resets itselft to a more correct reading.
I am out of ideas, guess we need someone from HTC to chime in with a hardware fix.
MWS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have tried it too and it still does the same thing. i would still need to pull the battery and restart the device for the batt meter to get a more accurate reading. i could do it about 3 times before the battery dies completely.
is there this problem with all extended batteries or just with the larger ones?
the reason I ask is that I've got a $17 credit at Amazon and was thinking of grabbing a 1600mah battery, it's only like $22 with ship so I'll only pay a few bucks for it really...
I wanted to get the larger one but it's fat and won't fit standard carrying case, but the 1600 is slim and will fit in place a regular battery
i have noticed that the battery metter is completely unreliable
for example it shows 28% left (btw, i installed FInixNOverBattery for percentage indication) and after a soft reset it shows 41%
or it shows 50% and after soft reset it shows 31%
in this way i can never estimate how long the battery will last
does anybody faced this issue? any solution fot it? (i also tryed to calibrate by completely drain the battery followed by complete charge withe the device turned off)
thank you in advance!
noris08,
it is completey normal to experience big jumps in % after a reboot. The battery % is just a representation of the actual voltage of the LiPoly battery, which usually recovers (rises) quite a bit when there is no load on the battery (even for a short time).
maybe what you say it is true, but i never experienced this behaviour with any of my previous phones. and i had a few, including wm for a few years
and variations of 10-15% - i find them too big
I noticed the same thing. Any explanation for this? Or it is just that FInixNOverBattery is not reliable/compatible/accurate ?
Voltage may vary/jump around due to environmental changes and power consumption or voltage sensor may be insufficiently accurate to provide reliable voltage readings for 1% steps. This is one of the reasons why many battery drivers in WM only provide remaining charge percentage in 10% steps.
In this light, voltage on its own is not a sufficient indicator of remaining charge percentage. Other parameters, such as voltage deviation and other factors, such as power consumption and temperature may need to be taken into account to obtain a more accurate evaluation.
Hi,
I wonder if we could have advanced battery charging management on Android in order to minimize wear. The basic idea is to avoid micro-cycles, i.e. don't start charging every time the power supply is plugged in. I find myself plugging in my Nexus several times a day, so I get several charge cycles every day. Instead, the Nexus should draw its power over USB, but not start charging.
The thinkpad_smapi module implements this for IBM/Lenovo laptops. There are two thresholds, start_charge_thresh and stop_charge_thresh. Setting the start threshold to e.g. 40 will not start charging unless the remaining capacity is below 40 %, and stop_charge_thresh will probably (I don't use it) stop charging early. I use a start threshold of 25 % on my Thinkpad, so I always have at least around 1 hour left, which is enough for me. I understand if people want a full battery all the time and rather buy a new battery every now and then. However, my first Thinkpad battery died after 1.5 years (~500 cycles). The second battery is 2 years old and still charges to 77 % of the original capacity (50 Wh of 64 Wh), so this simple measure has a significant effect.
There's a lot to know about LiPo/LiIon-batteries, way more than I know, but the bottom line is that keeping the battery between 40 % and 95 % minimizes chemical wear.
Maybe someone came across battery-related stuff while digging through the kernel sources and can comment on this. Charging is probably not handled in the kernel, but in the radio or by a dedicated circuit, but maybe there's an interface exposed to the kernel that can be used to set those threshold values. That's how it's done on Thinkpads.
Some changes to how charge management (which is done in the kernel in the ds2784_battery driver) is handled in full and near-full situations are under way. Look for them in the .32-test1 kernel sources in the near future. We're not planning on being quite as aggressive as you propose (wait until 40% to begin charging, etc), but reducing discharge/recharge cycling once the battery is full is planned.
swetland said:
Some changes to how charge management (which is done in the kernel in the ds2784_battery driver) is handled in full and near-full situations are under way. Look for them in the .32-test1 kernel sources in the near future. We're not planning on being quite as aggressive as you propose (wait until 40% to begin charging, etc), but reducing discharge/recharge cycling once the battery is full is planned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i found some unusual battery behavior on the nexus one. i'll charge to 100% when on. then ill delete the batterystats.bin and power off. when off, the light is still orange. takes about a full 5 minutes later then turns green. when i do this and power on, with heavy usage it stays on 100% for 15-35 min, then slowly drops. but without doing this, it just slowly drops from 100%.
100% is not quite the same as fully charged (yes this is a little confusing). If you yank power immediately upon hitting 100% you will typically have a less full battery than if you let it sit until it stops charging. The "power off charge mode" doesn't indicate 100% with the green light -- it indicates "charge complete".
The battery log at /d/battery_log gives a bit more detail as to what's going on (as well as the chatter from the battery driver in the dmesg log).
swetland said:
100% is not quite the same as fully charged (yes this is a little confusing). If you yank power immediately upon hitting 100% you will typically have a less full battery than if you let it sit until it stops charging. The "power off charge mode" doesn't indicate 100% with the green light -- it indicates "charge complete".
The battery log at /d/battery_log gives a bit more detail as to what's going on (as well as the chatter from the battery driver in the dmesg log).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the response! i learned something new today
I've used the Battery University to guide me on Li-Ion batteries:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm
(scroll down on either page to see some guidelines).
The first page says that multiple partial recharges are healthier for the battery than fewer deeper discharge/recharges due to less heat buildup. Personally I have never fretted about just plugging in my Macbooks or phones whenever I wanted and the batteries have all lasted quite well.
I also use a slightly weaker charger for my G1 and N1 than the supplied chargers (500 to 700mA Blackberry chargers) and they don't get as hot when I charge them, yet charge to full capacity quickly enough for my needs. The second page recommends a 0.5C charge current (1C == 1400mAmps, 0.5C == 700mAmps) for better life.
I've been playing w the 32 test kernel and looks like this commit has implemented the battery management.
I've now noticed that if the battery level is higher than 90%, plugging in the charger will not charge the phone. Once the battery drops below 90, the battery will start getting charged.
http://r.android.com/#change,13342
is this .32 kernel going to be released as an OTA soon? or is it still in dev stages?
*push*
1.8 years later...
Is it finally implemented in Gingerbread? Are there any mods that provide a frontend to that settings?
Greetings all, I was wondering if anyone else has noticed that their battery doesn't charge to full when using the wall charger or USB? I have LiPo chargers from RC cars and I have used one to discharge and fully charge the battery to 1400mah and found that the phone seems to have much better battery life than when charged with wall charger / USB.
When charged with the external ("direct") battery charger, I can get to 4211mv whereas normally with the wall/usb it only goes to 4173mv max. From what I know of LiPo/LiIon batteries, they need to get to their max charge voltage (~4200mv) or so and stay there for some time to get full charge.
I have noticed that my phone has terrible battery life when compared to my Touch HD which used to get 20hrs+ of full use on 3G/HSDPA, same usage pattern with push e-mail and I can't even get 12hrs with the Nexus One before the battery runs right down. And I thought the Touch HD had bad battery life!
Any help / feedback would be most appreciated. Thanks!
It's interesting I see this as today has been a very odd battery day. I woke up and unplugged it at exactly 5am. For 7 minutes I checked e-mails and twitter and it had dropped 3%!!! By 8am I was down to 82% (ride in to work, listening to music for 25 mins, thats about all) I was thinking this was getting silly. It's now 5pm here and I'm still at 61%?!?! So, over the first 3 hours it went 6%ph, since then it's done 2.3%... that's the best I've ever got from it.
Could this be related? It's not really fully charged, even though it shows 100%, drops very quickly and then when it returns to where it perhaps should be (around 80%) it acts as normal?
What is a LiPo charger and how can I use one to charge my Nexus battery?
http://blog.quantifly.com/?p=2
iMAX B6 is what I have been using. I have another heavier duty one but this one is good enough for the battery. I have a generic battery charger thing which I got from China which holds the battery while the other unit charges it. Right now as I write this, my phone has been on for 1hr 25minutes after being charged with the charger, I have used the browser for 10minutes, on 3G, downloading things etc. and it is still on 4211mv and 100% charge.
Curious if this is an issue with the onboard battery microchip, or the radio/firmware. Does anyone know where to source an original replacement battery (non-generic replacement)?
The batteries in these smart phones makes no sense. The other day, I charged the phone overnight using USB, and the next day, I was at 97% after 3.5 hrs. Then, another day, with basically the same usage, I'm down to 85% after 3.5 hrs. No rhyme or reason. I wish someone could explain it.
I also wish someone could make a battery that lasts for 48 hours on normal use
"Drops very quicky"
same here but ive had this 'problems' since stock firmware. its not CM related.
I also noticed that its dropping from 100 to 80ish very fast when starting many apps in the morning for example. Like stopping airplane mode, starting some apps and opening browser. stays at 80ish for some hours then
xPatriicK said:
"Drops very quicky"
same here but ive had this 'problems' since stock firmware. its not CM related.
I also noticed that its dropping from 100 to 80ish very fast when starting many apps in the morning for example. Like stopping airplane mode, starting some apps and opening browser. stays at 80ish for some hours then
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep. That was the same thing with my Pre. It would never stay at 100% for more than a few minutes, and then it would plummet into the 80's, and then it would be okay.
Battery Antics
I purposely left the phone not to charge last night from about 1AM - and I woke up (around 9:30AM) with it at 99% charge still. Used it for a bit and it dropped to 89% and now it's 1:06PM and it dropped to 75% with calls, web browsing and some other stuff. Previous days to this it would be at 75% after just 2-3 hours!
I also noticed that the phone didn't download any e-mails overnight (since there's no "scheduling" for peak/offpeak like in WM I assumed this shouldn't happen?) which may account for the minimal discharge.
All in all very strange, seems like I am not the only one with these problems - maybe I'll try get another battery and see what happens!
The thing about the battery in a smart phone is that it has a micro chip in it, and the phone reads info from it to give us the battery meter(this is true of any phone, actually)... your LiPo charger reads charge in a similar manner, only it doesn't talk with the batteries chip, instead it does it's own thing(I will spare the details)
With this in mind, what you want to do to get the most out of your battery is get the chip in the battery, and in turn the "circuit" it completes with the phone properly calibrated. To do this, you want to run the phone's battery down until it turns itself off. Do a battery pull and let it sit for a little bit (at least 30 seconds, I usually wait several minutes)... then, put the battery back in, and turn the phone on. One of two things will happen, it will either power off before fully booting, or if it does not you will want to use the phone until it powers off again.
At this point, pull the battery again and let it sit out of the phone for a bit again. Then put it back in, and without trying to power the phone on, put it on the charger and leave it on the charger until it is fully charged "green light comes on" plus a couple hours.(best to leave it on the charger overnight) At this point, take it off the charger, and then turn the phone.
This will properly set the low point and the high point for the battery stats. Do not do this a lot, it is bad for a LiIon battery to be "deep cycled", which this comes really close to doing. Ultimately, the phone is not going to charge the battery as high as a LiPo charger will, nor will it discharge it as low, because unlike an RC car's batteries that are used for rapid discharge, these batteries are designed and used in a slow long term discharge.
Thanks, I'll try that myself
Do you run any risk of damaging the battery when charging with a LiPo?
How to Make Your Cell Phone Battery Last Longer when you need it the most
Tips: How to Make Your Cell Phone Battery Last Longer when you need it the most:
1. Always try to drain your battery or wait till its 15% or below then charge your phone. Its very important to turn the phone off before you plug it to charge. This help maximizing your battery charge.
2. Stop searching for a signal. When you are in an area with poor or no signal, your phone will constantly look for a better connection, and will use up all your power doing so.
3. Switch off the vibrate function on your phone, and use just the ring tone instead.
4. Turn off your phone's back light.
5. Avoid using unnecessary features. If you know it will be a while before your phone’s next charge, don’t use the camera or connect to the Internet. Flash photography can drain your battery especially quickly.
6. Keep calls short. This is obvious, but how many times have you heard someone on their mobile phone say, "I think my battery’s dying," and then continue their conversation for several minutes? Sometimes, the dying battery is just an excuse to get off the phone (and a good one, at that), but if you really need to conserve the battery, limit your talk time.
7. Turn off Bluetooth. It will drain your battery very quickly.
8. Same goes for WIFI, GPS, and infrared capabilities, if your phone has these features built in. Keep them off; save more power.
9. Use GSM - Using your phone in 3G / Dual Mode will drain the battery quicker than if you just use GSM mode - have a look at your phones spec and you'll see it will quote two different battery life times - normally 50% more for pure GSM use.
Very Important:
Anyone purchase a new phone. Its best DO NOT USE the phone with the little remaining power the battery has. It is best that you put the battery in the phone and turn off the phone and change for minimum of 5-6 hours.
The 1st charge for the battery is very important for lithium ion battery. Leaving the phone off will give the full maximize charge the battery can take. Normal when phone shows charge complete by integrator light or on the screen means its 95% complete. To complete the 100% charge you need additional 1-2 hours after the full charge integrator show. Having the phone off also help keep the charge. A phone that is on and charging will never get that 100% charge because there is alway a little battery being drained just because the phone is one even if its plugged in to a charger.
If you see your battery is not giving the same performance what it use to. You can try this method at least 3-4 times for 1 week and follow up every other month. Meaning turn the phone off and charge it every night. It is best if you can drain the battery to 15% or less before charging the phone.
nuc70st said:
Tips: How to Make Your Cell Phone Battery Last Longer when you need it the most:
1. Always try to drain your battery or wait till its 15% or below then charge your phone. Its very important to turn the phone off before you plug it to charge. This help maximizing your battery charge.
2. Stop searching for a signal. When you are in an area with poor or no signal, your phone will constantly look for a better connection, and will use up all your power doing so.
3. Switch off the vibrate function on your phone, and use just the ring tone instead.
4. Turn off your phone's back light.
5. Avoid using unnecessary features. If you know it will be a while before your phone’s next charge, don’t use the camera or connect to the Internet. Flash photography can drain your battery especially quickly.
6. Keep calls short. This is obvious, but how many times have you heard someone on their mobile phone say, "I think my battery’s dying," and then continue their conversation for several minutes? Sometimes, the dying battery is just an excuse to get off the phone (and a good one, at that), but if you really need to conserve the battery, limit your talk time.
7. Turn off Bluetooth. It will drain your battery very quickly.
8. Same goes for WIFI, GPS, and infrared capabilities, if your phone has these features built in. Keep them off; save more power.
9. Use GSM - Using your phone in 3G / Dual Mode will drain the battery quicker than if you just use GSM mode - have a look at your phones spec and you'll see it will quote two different battery life times - normally 50% more for pure GSM use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
10. Keep the phone off, it'll not drain the battery at all!
So one person says don't let it drop down low very often, the next person says let it drop to 15% all the time...
Personally I've heard not to let it drop low more often these days. The old 'let it decharge regularly' was talked about a lot 4 or 5 years ago... no?
nuc70st said:
Tips: How to Make Your Cell Phone Battery Last Longer when you need it the most:
1. Always try to drain your battery or wait till its 15% or below then charge your phone. Its very important to turn the phone off before you plug it to charge. This help maximizing your battery charge.
2. Stop searching for a signal. When you are in an area with poor or no signal, your phone will constantly look for a better connection, and will use up all your power doing so.
3. Switch off the vibrate function on your phone, and use just the ring tone instead.
4. Turn off your phone's back light.
5. Avoid using unnecessary features. If you know it will be a while before your phone’s next charge, don’t use the camera or connect to the Internet. Flash photography can drain your battery especially quickly.
6. Keep calls short. This is obvious, but how many times have you heard someone on their mobile phone say, "I think my battery’s dying," and then continue their conversation for several minutes? Sometimes, the dying battery is just an excuse to get off the phone (and a good one, at that), but if you really need to conserve the battery, limit your talk time.
7. Turn off Bluetooth. It will drain your battery very quickly.
8. Same goes for WIFI, GPS, and infrared capabilities, if your phone has these features built in. Keep them off; save more power.
9. Use GSM - Using your phone in 3G / Dual Mode will drain the battery quicker than if you just use GSM mode - have a look at your phones spec and you'll see it will quote two different battery life times - normally 50% more for pure GSM use.
Very Important:
Anyone purchase a new phone. Its best DO NOT USE the phone with the little remaining power the battery has. It is best that you put the battery in the phone and turn off the phone and change for minimum of 5-6 hours.
The 1st charge for the battery is very important for lithium ion battery. Leaving the phone off will give the full maximize charge the battery can take. Normal when phone shows charge complete by integrator light or on the screen means its 95% complete. To complete the 100% charge you need additional 1-2 hours after the full charge integrator show. Having the phone off also help keep the charge. A phone that is on and charging will never get that 100% charge because there is alway a little battery being drained just because the phone is one even if its plugged in to a charger.
If you see your battery is not giving the same performance what it use to. You can try this method at least 3-4 times for 1 week and follow up every other month. Meaning turn the phone off and charge it every night. It is best if you can drain the battery to 15% or less before charging the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you didn't understand a LI-ION battery!!!
1. completely false
2. I've a mobilephone also I wan't to use it!!!
3. Maybe... Have you tested it with a ampere meter?
4. A black display is always a good idea!
5. Why not buying a Nokia 3210 ?
6. Better: Don't use it for call.
7. Correct! (If you don't use a headset)
8. See Pt. 5
9. See Pt. 5
A few facts:
- a new lithium-ion pack does not need cycling through charging and discharging
- Limit the time at which the battery stays at 4.20/cell. Prolonged high voltage promotes corrosion, especially at elevated temperatures.
- 3.92V/cell is the best upper voltage threshold for cobalt-based lithium-ion
- The 1st charge is no different to the 5th or the 50th charge. Stickers instructing to charge the battery for 8 hours or more for the first time may be a leftover from the nickel battery days.
Whole article on: batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm (by Cadex Electronic Inc.)
jahmann82 said:
I think you didn't understand a LI-ION battery!!!
1. completely false
2. I've a mobilephone also I wan't to use it!!!
3. Maybe... Have you tested it with a ampere meter?
4. A black display is always a good idea!
5. Why not buying a Nokia 3210 ?
6. Better: Don't use it for call.
7. Correct! (If you don't use a headset)
8. See Pt. 5
9. See Pt. 5
A few facts:
- a new lithium-ion pack does not need cycling through charging and discharging
- Limit the time at which the battery stays at 4.20/cell. Prolonged high voltage promotes corrosion, especially at elevated temperatures.
- 3.92V/cell is the best upper voltage threshold for cobalt-based lithium-ion
- The 1st charge is no different to the 5th or the 50th charge. Stickers instructing to charge the battery for 8 hours or more for the first time may be a leftover from the nickel battery days.
Whole article on: batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm (by Cadex Electronic Inc.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second this as well. The tips given by nuc70st is only applicable in the old days with nickel based batteries (Ni-cd and Ni-MH), which for the past 5 years mobile phones have in general stopped using and have shifted to lithium varieties. Nickel Cadium and a smaller extent Nickel Metal Hydride suffer from "memory effect" so it was important to deep cycle the batteries to maintain its capacity.
Lithium batteries in contrast should be treated in the opposite. You should keep it charged up whenever possible, and fast discharging (draining its charge as fast as possible) actually does more harm than good. Most mobile phones don't discharge it fast enough for it to be problem, but plugging a lithium battery in a purpose made discharger is still a no-no.
I dont know if anybody else can try this with their N1 but I have recently noticed that when my battery does its initial.. drop to 95% before you can wonder what happened, I can charge it with the phone on and the green light stays on, implying that the phone is fully charged.
Then I turn the phone off and charge it, and the red light quickly comes on and allows another hour? of charging before the green light will re-appear.
I think i'll be trying leaving my phone on and on charge overnight and then turning it off while I get ready in the morning and don't necessarily need it.
The green light comes on before the battery is fully charged
AndyCr15 said:
So one person says don't let it drop down low very often, the next person says let it drop to 15% all the time...
Personally I've heard not to let it drop low more often these days. The old 'let it decharge regularly' was talked about a lot 4 or 5 years ago... no?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm right and the other guy is dead wrong. Deep cycling was better for nickel metal hydride batteries, because it helped delay the memory effect.
No such issue for Li-ion batteries, plus charging makes Li-ion batteries HOT, which isn't particularly good for the battery. So numerous charges leads to less exposure to prolonged heating.
nuc70st said:
Tips: How to Make Your Cell Phone Battery Last Longer when you need it the most:
1. Always try to drain your battery or wait till its 15% or below then charge your phone. Its very important to turn the phone off before you plug it to charge. This help maximizing your battery charge.
2. Stop searching for a signal. When you are in an area with poor or no signal, your phone will constantly look for a better connection, and will use up all your power doing so.
3. Switch off the vibrate function on your phone, and use just the ring tone instead.
4. Turn off your phone's back light.
5. Avoid using unnecessary features. If you know it will be a while before your phone’s next charge, don’t use the camera or connect to the Internet. Flash photography can drain your battery especially quickly.
6. Keep calls short. This is obvious, but how many times have you heard someone on their mobile phone say, "I think my battery’s dying," and then continue their conversation for several minutes? Sometimes, the dying battery is just an excuse to get off the phone (and a good one, at that), but if you really need to conserve the battery, limit your talk time.
7. Turn off Bluetooth. It will drain your battery very quickly.
8. Same goes for WIFI, GPS, and infrared capabilities, if your phone has these features built in. Keep them off; save more power.
9. Use GSM - Using your phone in 3G / Dual Mode will drain the battery quicker than if you just use GSM mode - have a look at your phones spec and you'll see it will quote two different battery life times - normally 50% more for pure GSM use.
all very good tips, but its just funny that to save battery life we cant use ours phones as they where intended for us to use them. I need dilithium crystals.
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mikesm1234 said:
all very good tips
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Click to collapse
Oh dear. Have you read this thread?
No, they are not good tips...
Rusty! said:
The green light comes on before the battery is fully charged
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I noticed that just last night! Are you supposed to keep charging it until its 100% or stop it from charging when the green light turns on?
Cheers,
M
I'm really frustrated because i really used to love the n7 so much I was an early adopter and bought another one after I dropped my first and then went on to buy my girlfriend one. But after being plagued with this issue and stuck on 4.1 its just not the same anymore since I cant flash custom roms all day :/
I've been having a charging issue with android 4.2.1 since it came out (both stock and all the roms I tried) but I noticed that whenever I reverted to 4.1.2 the issue went away completely. So I've been waiting for 4.2.2 to come out for a while now to see if it fixed the issue and after flashing the update tonight it seems to have the same problem.
I've tried searching for months now and haven't found any answers.
So this is the issue with both 4.2.1 and 4.2.2:
The battery charges at an insanely slow pace to the point that it ruins the tablet completely. I'll plug it in over night for 8+ hours and it will not gain more then 40% battery life in that time.
Its to the point that when I was just using it right now on the charger with brightness turned all the way down and nothing on other then sync and WiFi that light web browsing for 10 mins caused it to discharge a percent after being plugged in for 19 minutes.
Notes:
Its a c70 16gb
I tried 3 different stock N7 chargers with stock cables as well as trying them with other cables.
I'm not plugged into any kind of extension cords and I've tried multiple wall sockets at different locations.
My girlfriends nexus 7 32g charges fine on 4.2.1 and I have not updated her to 4.2.2 to test yet.
I haven't checked the battery connection because like I said whenever I revert to stock 4.1.2 or any 4.1.2 rom it charges in 4 hours flat or 6 hours with heavy usage while charging.
So anyone have any ideas? If not I guess I have to rma.
Do both, yours and your girlfriend's devices take that long to charge?
sl4y3r88 said:
Do both, yours and your girlfriend's devices take that long to charge?
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Nope her nexus 7 charges fine. ( a little slower on 4.2 then 4.1 but nothing like mine)
Her nexus does have issues with turning on sometimes on 4.2.1 like a lot of other users but its nothing holding the power button for 10 seconds doesn't fix.
It also just noticed it seems to discharge at an extremely fast pace. (still on 4.2.2)
It just dropped from 55% to 51% in the time I've typed these responses with brightness all the way down.
So anyone want to try and help me figure this out before I send it in friday? I called it in to Google play device support to try and report the software bug and they said its the first they heard of it and they would pass it on but I felt like the rep didnt want to help as I bought it from a third party. I'm willing to do any tests suggested and hop between software versions to try and figure out this bug.
Why do you think it is a "software bug" when millions of people running the "same software" don't experience the same behavior?
I realize that software can exhibit data-dependent behaviors, and thus exhibit low occurrence rates... but there is no "software" involved in charging the battery.
Do you think a booted Linux kernel is needed to charge a battery? How would the battery get charged when the device is turned off in that case? C'mon!
Send it back and tell them the battery (or charge contoller CIRCUIT) is defective.
If it's out of warranty, PAY them to replace it.
bftb0 said:
Why do you think it is a "software bug" when millions of people running the "same software" don't experience the same behavior?
I realize that software can exhibit data-dependent behaviors, and thus exhibit low occurrence rates... but there is no "software" involved in charging the battery.
Do you think a booted Linux kernel is needed to charge a battery? How would the battery get charged when the device is turned off in that case? C'mon!
Send it back and tell them the battery (or charge contoller CIRCUIT) is defective.
If it's out of warranty, PAY them to replace it.
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Click to collapse
Then how do you explain that if right now I flash back to 4.1.2 it will work fine? If you want I'll provide screenshots.
I just flashed back to 4.1.2 this morning and it worked perfectly. Just now I flashed codefires 4.2.2 build and the problems back.
Please explain how that is hardware related.
I may of jumped the gun assuming it was a charging issue. It seems like it might be a battery drain issue. Here's a couple screenshots from a fresh install of codefirex 4.2.2 build.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app
All I was trying to say is that when the OS is booted, at most all it does is monitor battery voltage and current - it doesn't get actively involved in control of charging circuitry.
At most this historical data can be used to *predict* when the battery will run out of juice, and this number is what is shown to the user as a % charge number. Hopefully that allows the prediction to be sort of correct as the battery ages and it's characteristics change.
This "calibration data" is only used for prediction - it does absolutely nothing to alter the rate at which current is drawn from the battery by the motherboard, nor for attempting to alter the behavior of a battery charge controller.
Li-Ion and Li-Polymer batteries are indeed complicated enough that they should not be charged by extremely simple circuits if a long operating lifetime is desired. For this purpose though, monolithic battery charge controllers chips are used - they do not need any assistance of a micro-controller or advanced CPU running a modern OS. That's why they are able to charge batteries rapidly and appropriately when the motherboard is in a "powered down" state.
Relative to a big multi-core CPU chip, which might have hundreds of millions of transistors, battery charge controllers are extremely small circuits - they are sold by the billions and cost in the ballpark of one to several pennies. They don't need the support of a CPU or even a microcontroller to operate correctly.
Good luck with your tab; I hope you enjoy it.
bftb0 said:
All I was trying to say is that when the OS is booted, at most all it does is monitor battery voltage and current - it doesn't get actively involved in control of charging circuitry.
At most this historical data can be used to *predict* when the battery will run out of juice, and this number is what is shown to the user as a % charge number. Hopefully that allows the prediction to be sort of correct as the battery ages and it's characteristics change.
This "calibration data" is only used for prediction - it does absolutely nothing to alter the rate at which current is drawn from the battery by the motherboard, nor for attempting to alter the behavior of a battery charge controller.
Li-Ion and Li-Polymer batteries are indeed complicated enough that they should not be charged by extremely simple circuits if a long operating lifetime is desired. For this purpose though, monolithic battery charge controllers chips are used - they do not need any assistance of a micro-controller or advanced CPU running a modern OS. That's why they are able to charge batteries rapidly and appropriately when the motherboard is in a "powered down" state.
Relative to a big multi-core CPU chip, which might have hundreds of millions of transistors, battery charge controllers are extremely small circuits - they are sold by the billions and cost in the ballpark of one to several pennies. They don't need the support of a CPU or even a microcontroller to operate correctly.
Good luck with your tab; I hope you enjoy it.
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Thank you for taking the time to write out this detailed explanation. I read it over a couple times and that all makes a lot of sense and now I have a little better understanding of how things work charging wise.
But I still can't wrap my head around how the problem DISAPPEARS COMPLETELY on any 4.1 based build...
I'm not trying to contradict you in anyway it seems like you are way more knowledgeable then me on the subject.
It just doesn't make any sense and I was hoping you could make more of it for me.
Maybe it isn't the charging but a battery drain issue something on 4.2 based builds is draining more current then the charger can dish out.
But while i was doing research I read that chargers up the current they dish out if the device is in use. Is that correct?
I've looked into the media server bug but as I just did a fresh install of stock 4.2.1 and haven't changed or added anything to the file structure that wasn't included in the factory image, I also went through and turned off the keyboard press sound and all other sounds like explained in some of the threads I have read. I also read that the problem is supposed to be fixed in 4.2.2. I also haven't installed any apps from the market.
I guess all I'm looking for is the answer to this question:
Could there really be a hardware related problem of any sort (not just charging and battery problems but anything) that causes problems with 4.2 based builds specifically but doesn't cause problems with 4.1?
If the answer is yes then I don't have to feel bad about sending it in but if its software based issues I'll be upset that I wasn't able to fix it and gave up.
Have you let the battery drain all the way or do you just plug it in at a certain point? if not let it get to the point were it will turn itself off. if the battery with the cross in it stays for more than it would take for 1% to drain then it just might be your battery stats file. even if its not let it drain and then charge it while its off. you can check the battery by pushing the power button quick. i know i have had this problem with other devices that were fixed by doing this. and my N7 did it last night were i updated and plugged it in, it was at 60% and when i woke up it was at 46%.
projectzro said:
Have you let the battery drain all the way or do you just plug it in at a certain point? if not let it get to the point were it will turn itself off. if the battery with the cross in it stays for more than it would take for 1% to drain then it just might be your battery stats file. even if its not let it drain and then charge it while its off. you can check the battery by pushing the power button quick. i know i have had this problem with other devices that were fixed by doing this. and my N7 did it last night were i updated and plugged it in, it was at 60% and when i woke up it was at 46%.
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Click to collapse
I'll give this a try right now then post results, the battery is already pretty low so It shouldn't take very long. Thanks for the response.
projectzro said:
Have you let the battery drain all the way or do you just plug it in at a certain point? if not let it get to the point were it will turn itself off. if the battery with the cross in it stays for more than it would take for 1% to drain then it just might be your battery stats file. even if its not let it drain and then charge it while its off. you can check the battery by pushing the power button quick. i know i have had this problem with other devices that were fixed by doing this. and my N7 did it last night were i updated and plugged it in, it was at 60% and when i woke up it was at 46%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I let it run dry and am getting some weird behavior...
The dead battery symbol did not pop at all. It actually booted played the low battery sound half way through the nexus logo loaded into the OS and immediately was greeted by the battery to low logo powering down message and then it returned off. It did this cycle all the way through three times in a row before holding the power button did nothing. I let it sit for a minute before trying again and I got another boot out of it all the way to the OS again. But I've yet to be greeted by the battery with the cross symbol. Holding the power button will do the cycle described above or do nothing at all.
krisserapin said:
But while i was doing research I read that chargers up the current they dish out if the device is in use. Is that correct?
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Click to collapse
Well, the 120v->5v converter certainly can be providing more current @5v because the device is active, but that's only because the motherboard is drawing current in parallel with the battery charging circuit. It doesn't mean the battery charge rate is higher.
krisserapin said:
Could there really be a hardware related problem of any sort (not just charging and battery problems but anything) that causes problems with 4.2 based builds specifically but doesn't cause problems with 4.1?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose so.
I would do a few things to determine whether that is a reasonable hypotheses, though.
1) See how fast the battery charges with the tablet turned off. Should be close to 40%/hour for a new battery. You know there is no "software" running with the tablet turned off, so if you don't see some reasonable number here (say > 20%/hr) then a bad battery or charge controller circuit in the tab are the most likely culprits. Also, if the temperature rise of the tablet while doing this seems higher than the gf's unit, that would implicate the battery, not the charging circuit.
2) There's software, and then there's software. (Preinstalled vs. User installed) Run the battery down a ways, and then observe the battery charging rate with the device on but screen off (sleeping), but on a stock 4.2 install with ZERO user apps installed. Then, install/restore all your favorite apps, reboot, maybe use a couple of your fave apps, and repeat the same charge rate trial (screen off/sleeping). Are there large differences between the two cases? If so, that would implicate one of your apps in causing either lots of additional compute operations or preventing entry into the LP0 state (perhaps because of wakelocks?)
The thing is, the N7 battery is rated at 4325 mAh; that is sort of the same thing as 4.325 amps of current for 1 hour. (Voltage range of roughly 4v to 3.5v).
So, if a "good battery" can be charged in 2.5hrs, that is sort of like stuffing 1.73 amps into the battery for that time (1.73 x 2.5 = 4.325 A-h or 4325 mA-h). That's pretty near to the max capacity of the AC charger (2A)
Now, some users have reported discharging their tabs in 4 hours under heavy continuous use; that would be about 1.08 amps for 4 hours.
Since the wall charger is rated to produce 2A, this suggests that very heavy usage simultaneous with charging would indeed cause battery charging to slow down significantly - let's suppose it drops from 1.73a to 0.65a. Now it takes the battery 6.6hrs to charge ... but that is still just over 15%/hr ... with the tab in active use.
But that's not what you were noticing - you were seeing much worse charge rates than this when the tablet was supposed to be more or less idle!
Finally I should point out that I previously mentioned that the % charge number is a prediction, not a measurement! If for some reason this number were screwed up, then the "charge rate" observations could be completely screwed up. (Think of this as being analogous to trying to partially fill a gas tank in a car or estimate fuel mileage with a broken gas gauge) The only way to be sure that you are not falling victim to something like this is to record battery voltages - the 100% level should be up around 4v, and the 10% values down around 3.5v.
You can observe this value at /sys/devices/platform/tegra-i2c.4/i2c-4/4-0055/power_supply/battery/voltage_now
(note value is reported in uV)
Whew - long post. It doesn't directly answer your question about "why was 4.1 so different?" - but gives you an idea about why I was skeptical when you saw charging rates as low as you did.
I dunno, maybe the % charge prediction value numbers are screwy on your tab for some strange reason in 4.2, perhaps because of a minor hardware difference. I can't rule it out - I once saw a bug expression in a hardware/software combination that required three independent conditions (from three separate vendors!) to have precise configurations before the bug would show itself.
I hope this post gives you some ideas to try; it certainly doesn't give a solution.
Good luck - if you feel like spending more time investigating, go for it; just don't let the clock run out on the warranty period if you have one left.
bftb0 said:
Well, the 120v->5v converter certainly can be providing more current @5v because the device is active, but that's only because the motherboard is drawing current in parallel with the battery charging circuit. It doesn't mean the battery charge rate is higher.
I suppose so.
I would do a few things to determine whether that is a reasonable hypotheses, though.
1) See how fast the battery charges with the tablet turned off. Should be close to 40%/hour for a new battery. You know there is no "software" running with the tablet turned off, so if you don't see some reasonable number here (say > 20%/hr) then a bad battery or charge controller circuit in the tab are the most likely culprits. Also, if the temperature rise of the tablet while doing this seems higher than the gf's unit, that would implicate the battery, not the charging circuit.
2) There's software, and then there's software. (Preinstalled vs. User installed) Run the battery down a ways, and then observe the battery charging rate with the device on but screen off (sleeping), but on a stock 4.2 install with ZERO user apps installed. Then, install/restore all your favorite apps, reboot, maybe use a couple of your fave apps, and repeat the same charge rate trial (screen off/sleeping). Are there large differences between the two cases? If so, that would implicate one of your apps in causing either lots of additional compute operations or preventing entry into the LP0 state (perhaps because of wakelocks?)
The thing is, the N7 battery is rated at 4325 mAh; that is sort of the same thing as 4.325 amps of current for 1 hour. (Voltage range of roughly 4v to 3.5v).
So, if a "good battery" can be charged in 2.5hrs, that is sort of like stuffing 1.73 amps into the battery for that time (1.73 x 2.5 = 4.325 A-h or 4325 mA-h). That's pretty near to the max capacity of the AC charger (2A)
Now, some users have reported discharging their tabs in 4 hours under heavy continuous use; that would be about 1.08 amps for 4 hours.
Since the wall charger is rated to produce 2A, this suggests that very heavy usage simultaneous with charging would indeed cause battery charging to slow down significantly - let's suppose it drops from 1.73a to 0.65a. Now it takes the battery 6.6hrs to charge ... but that is still just over 15%/hr ... with the tab in active use.
But that's not what you were noticing - you were seeing much worse charge rates than this when the tablet was supposed to be more or less idle!
Finally I should point out that I previously mentioned that the % charge number is a prediction, not a measurement! If for some reason this number were screwed up, then the "charge rate" observations could be completely screwed up. (Think of this as being analogous to trying to partially fill a gas tank in a car or estimate fuel mileage with a broken gas gauge) The only way to be sure that you are not falling victim to something like this is to record battery voltages - the 100% level should be up around 4v, and the 10% values down around 3.5v.
You can observe this value at /sys/devices/platform/tegra-i2c.4/i2c-4/4-0055/power_supply/battery/voltage_now
(note value is reported in uV)
Whew - long post. It doesn't directly answer your question about "why was 4.1 so different?" - but gives you an idea about why I was skeptical when you saw charging rates as low as you did.
I dunno, maybe the % charge prediction value numbers are screwy on your tab for some strange reason in 4.2, perhaps because of a minor hardware difference. I can't rule it out - I once saw a bug expression in a hardware/software combination that required three independent conditions (from three separate vendors!) to have precise configurations before the bug would show itself.
I hope this post gives you some ideas to try; it certainly doesn't give a solution.
Good luck - if you feel like spending more time investigating, go for it; just don't let the clock run out on the warranty period if you have one left.
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Click to collapse
Wow thank you so much for the help. I'll play around with this tonight and see what happens. If I can't figure it out by the morning I think I'll be able to RMA it without feeling like I just rolled over and let my n7 get the best of me.
So after charging it on stock 4.2.1 with the power completely off it only charged 3% in a little over a hour and voltages read 3.6. I'm gonna leave it on the charger over night turned on starting from 3% with only two extra battery monitoring apps installed and report back in the morning with screenshots of the results. After that ill probably revert to 4.1.2 drain the battery fully, charge it off for an hour report the values then let it charge fully with the battery apps on for reference take a few more screenshots then lock the bootloader install the ota and ship it off to good old ASUS since it sounds like its hardware from whats been explained.
FWIW, I drained my N7 last night (LOL, typing novels into XDA threads) - when I finished I was at 6% charge - that was 3.66v. In the morning @ 100%, the battery voltage was 4.1-something.
Sounds to me like you've definitely got a hardware problem.
Good luck with the RMA.
Canyou help me?
Since I flashed 4.2.2 my 240V-USB charger only cahrges thes battery about 5% in one hour.
Before (with 4.2.1) It was definitely faster. It charged more tha 5% per hour (maybe 20-25%).
I double checked the plug in the socket. checked the correct fit of the USB cable on the docking station.
Everything fits tight. No wiggle.
It must be software related, since it started after flashing the OTA zip from 4.2.1 to 4.2.2
Polarfuchs said:
Canyou help me?
Since I flashed 4.2.2 my 240V-USB charger only cahrges thes battery about 5% in one hour.
Before (with 4.2.1) It was definitely faster. It charged more tha 5% per hour (maybe 20-25%).
I double checked the plug in the socket. checked the correct fit of the USB cable on the docking station.
Everything fits tight. No wiggle.
It must be software related, since it started after flashing the OTA zip from 4.2.1 to 4.2.2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From a partially charged state, say below 50%, turn the device off, (NOT sleeping, but powered OFF) and put it on the charger for one hour.
It should charge at around 30-40%/hr.
As I pointed out above, how is it possible that software would be affecting the charging with the device turned OFF?
I believe you are seeing exactly what you report; my best guess is that a hardware problem occurred just about coincidentally with your upgrade. Just coincidence - not causation.
You also should inspect the battery voltage (see above for path in /sys) in case something crazy is happening with the %charge *prediction* (it is not a measurement) - because the total charging range is from about 3.65v-4.15v, a normal charge rate should be roughly 150 to 200 mV/hr
good luck