Related
Here are some rules from the Vibrant section we should all follow.
egzthunder1 said:
This was a good meeting in General and it has covered all of the things that I had in my agenda. A few action items on our (mods) end:
1. New threads for ROM updates: Rom threads become quasi chaotic after page 100 or so. Since Chefs update most of their work often, I would suggest that chefs open a new thread for each version with a date and version number to distinguish it from the previous one (maybe even a name)
ie [ROM] 12/15/10 - Inchybrid v 1.2 - all is good now
2. Rom Review Thread: In order to minimize the clutter of the usual "what rom is best" questions, we will start a ROM thread where chefs can post a link to their roms on the first few posts and users will be able to leave reviews (not necessarily feedback), but reviews. So, when someone comes asking for the best rom, that person can be directed there.
3. Wiki update and guides (sticky): These need to be heavily updated, but will certainly be a useful tool to help people with questions.
4. Location / shape of the Report button: I will talk to the other admins and see what can be done about this one.
5. Preventing non-devs from making new threads in Dev: We are currently discussing a system for this. We will keep you posted if and when we reach a conclusion.
6. Off Topic Lounge: There will be a thread in General for you guys to blow off steam. Nothing fancy, but you can post there without having to open a new thread in OT general
Now, onto the action items results and requests from us (mods)
1. Further flaming for questions will not be tolerated. I gathered from this meeting that everyone agrees on a stance that people need not be flamed for asking anything. If there are questions in the wrong areas or simply don't feel like answering, refrain from posting and report it to us. We will move it to Q&A or General depending on the question. Building on this point, if anyone is caught flaming someone who posted in the correct section, that person will be given a vacation.
2. Rule 12 (aka Kanging): Rom chefs (no matter if they are themers or zip wizards), if they are using someone else's efforts as a base for their rom, they are to abide by Rule 12 by asking permission and posting the due credit in the opening post. Kanging will not be tolerated.
3. Donations: This was barely brushed but I feel that we reached an understanding rather quickly on this one. Chefs shall not ask for Donations to release early work.
4. Posting any kind of flaming will not be tolerated. If you feel that a post shouldn't be there, please let us know and we will take care of that.
I think this pretty much summed everything up. If I missed something, please let me know. I expect everyone to adhere to codes of conduct in this site. Thanks to all for attending.
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That would be great if the mods are able to only give thread permissions to devs. This forum needs this kind of policing, but I think more Mods could help as well, it seems like Zelendel is the only Mod that comes around here.
flashman2002 said:
That would be great if the mods are able to only give thread permissions to devs. This forum needs this kind of policing, but I think more Mods could help as well, it seems like Zelendel is the only Mod that comes around here.
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Sounds very familiar..............
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9591647&postcount=3155
Sqdnguns said:
Sounds very familiar..............
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9591647&postcount=3155
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Sweet, but I did not steal your thoughts if that is what you are meaning lol. I haven't used Perception since v4 so I had no idea you said this. But it really is a great idea and should be looked at by the Mods and Admin.
flashman2002 said:
Sweet, but I did not steal your thoughts if that is what you are meaning lol. I haven't used Perception since v4 so I had no idea you said this. But it really is a great idea and should be looked at by the Mods and Admin.
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Not at all, just glad someone else actually piped in on it.
5. Preventing non-devs from making new threads in Dev: We are currently discussing a system for this. We will keep you posted if and when we reach a conclusion.
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interesting idea.
If you do this you might consider making altering/combining the other forums slightly.
For instance
Make:
General = General / Q&A
and
Q & A = Development Q&A
This way non-dev with specific Development/Rom related' Q's could start threads under Dev. Q & A without cluttering up the General Q&A or the Development Threads.
bames said:
interesting idea.
If you do this you might consider making altering/combining the other forums slightly.
For instance
Make:
General = General / Q&A
and
Q & A = Development Q&A
This way non-dev with specific Development/Rom related' Q's could start threads under Dev. Q & A without cluttering up the General Q&A or the Development Threads.
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I've always thought something similar to this. It seems like a frequent misperception among those with posts <10 that Q&A is for those that know nothing, and the development thread is where you go if you know anything about development (and then you can also post a question there)
I for sure thought this when I first came to XDA (luckily I read the stickies which made that clear). But changing the name could help.
Sent from my SGH-T959D using XDA App
Or another idea would not be to just completely lock the Dev thread to devs, but to perhaps have a minimum level of seniority/experience to post -- aka Senior members.
The reason that I say this is that there are a ton of folks that are not devs, but do post a lot of helpful troubleshooting information and/or feedback that not all the devs can answer personally. I would much rather the devs use their precious time on getting us the next version of goodness rather than answering a lot of questions.
If you do require some level of seniority (100+ posts for example) you can probably cut down on a lot of the typical questions that are repeatedly asked (and answered a few posts back) and have a much cleaner thread. It's not a perfect world, but offenders can be dealt with individually when you have a smaller pool.
Not to say that noobs shouldn't have a place to ask questions -- we were all there at one time, but we just make sure there is a different area for this -- not clogging the particular ROM thread.
I've seen several other forums and communities operate with this type of principle in high value areas. It also allows newer members to get their feet wet and contribute in other areas by posting for others if they want to post in the dev community (but lurking will always be allowed / should be encouraged).
Just my 2 cents.
I have Stuck this as I agree 100000000000%. As far as locking the the Dev section, that has been talked about and is not going to happen anytime in the near future. My suggestion is for everyone and yes that means YOU to treat everyone with respect and dignity. If someone goes off I am almost always on and read every pm so let me know as I cant be everywhere at once and I am still learning as well.
Wow great ideas, I couldn't agree more. +1
I like the idea of new post for new versions, I hope that would cut down on the flaming too due to missing a one line post on page 999 of 1200 that would answer the question.
I disagree with the 'only devs can post in the dev section' rule. While I would technically not be considered a dev (per se) because I do not know how to make a ROM I would still like to be able to post in that section things that are technically not ROMs but do not fit in general. For example, I created the Galaxy S unlocker for Mac, but I have not figured out how to make a ROM. Does that make me a developer or not?
agreed man
+1 to the new ROM new thread idea. That would cut way down on the Old Salty XDA member yelling at the noob interactions.
Oh and i believe it should be illegal to call the Captivate a "Cappy" FYL
Don't worry about the guide portion, I have a guide in the works that covers everything from installing drivers to the update-script.
Another thing I would like to personally add. When new users or the not-so-inclined make a thread asking for help, do any of us stop to realize why that thread ends up on the Development board? In my opinion, we need a board dedicated to SUPPORT. Yeah, we have Q&A, but Q&A doesn't say Support to a lot of people. Example, Q&A to me spells "Information", not "Support." Sure, the Q&A's may be intended to be "My phone won't turn on", or "My 3g doesn't work", but if that's the case, why beat around the bush and call it Q&A?
There are those of us out there who do enjoy helping newcomers, and answering their questions; regardless of what board they post on; and there are those of us who like to get deep into this, leave support for the less experienced and get *$&! done. Know how we could cut back on flaming, and on people posting in the wrong board? Spell it out for them, in big bold letters; "Captivate Support". Not only that, dev's could start up a sister thread for each ROM they do in the support board, that way the actual release thread isn't a mess.
Maybe I'm just dumb though.
I have to say I particularly like the flaming rules. Sure, noobs are going to ask questions that everyone else has known the answer to for the past 5 months. I know it can get tedious reading these same things all the time, but remember that we once were noobs too, and I would bet most of us have asked "dumb" questions when first starting out. People are excited to learn about this stuff...let's not take away the spark with ad hominem attacks. They serve no purpose whatsoever, and no one wants to read them. If you don't want to answer, keep your mouth shut. If you do, do so politely either directly or (probably a little better), point them to a thread that will answer their questions. But come on, users calling a noob an "idiot" or "dumbass" for asking an honest question really pisses me off. And like I said, remember that you probably did it at some point, too. Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now
geokhentix said:
Don't worry about the guide portion, I have a guide in the works that covers everything from installing drivers to the update-script.
Another thing I would like to personally add. When new users or the not-so-inclined make a thread asking for help, do any of us stop to realize why that thread ends up on the Development board? In my opinion, we need a board dedicated to SUPPORT. Yeah, we have Q&A, but Q&A doesn't say Support to a lot of people. Example, Q&A to me spells "Information", not "Support." Sure, the Q&A's may be intended to be "My phone won't turn on", or "My 3g doesn't work", but if that's the case, why beat around the bush and call it Q&A?
There are those of us out there who do enjoy helping newcomers, and answering their questions; regardless of what board they post on; and there are those of us who like to get deep into this, leave support for the less experienced and get *$&! done. Know how we could cut back on flaming, and on people posting in the wrong board? Spell it out for them, in big bold letters; "Captivate Support"
Maybe I'm just dumb though.
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I think this is also a good idea, primarily for those with stock phones or just performing basic procedures (e.g. rooting).
As for the bold letters, personally, I like just linking to the proper forum instead...something like "This question should be answered in the Support forum. It's located here: http://.......". But, hey, that's personal preference. You're way's fine, too
bknust said:
I think this is also a good idea, primarily for those with stock phones or just performing basic procedures (e.g. rooting).
As for the bold letters, personally, I like just linking to the proper forum instead...something like "This question should be answered in the Support forum. It's located here: http://.......". But, hey, that's personal preference. You're way's fine, too
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No no, I don't mean bold letters to the people asking for help. I mean bold letters for the forum title so people know it's there. Support speaks louder than Q&A, especially with all the multilingual folks we have on here.
geokhentix said:
No no, I don't mean bold letters to the people asking for help. I mean bold letters for the forum title so people know it's there. Support speaks louder than Q&A, especially with all the multilingual folks we have on here.
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Oops! Sorry, misunderstood. Yes, that would be a very good way to filter out a lot of the basic stuff. Good idea!
nbs11 said:
I disagree with the 'only devs can post in the dev section' rule. While I would technically not be considered a dev (per se) because I do not know how to make a ROM I would still like to be able to post in that section things that are technically not ROMs but do not fit in general. For example, I created the Galaxy S unlocker for Mac, but I have not figured out how to make a ROM. Does that make me a developer or not?
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As far as I'm concerned, an unlocker for Mac does indeed belong in development with the current structure of xda. It's kind of one of those things that could go under Apps, but when I think of apps, I think of your standard user apps, not rooting/unlocking/ROM/etc. tools/hacks. Maybe there should be a forum strictly for ROM dev and a separate one for general system dev. To me, they are different. That's just how I see it, but I'm sure there are quite a few differing views on this.
Let's try this again. Two rules regarding the Fascinate general section.
1)-Let's try to keep the "thank you" threads to a minimum. Please use the "THANKS" button to thank people for awesome work.
and
2)-Please keep all questions that aren't general to the Q&A section. Non-general questions will be moved to the Q&A section, as will general questions once they are resolved.
Word.-ashasaur
The Fascinate section is a very rough crowd of people that expect the world handed to them on a silver platter for nothing, and they all want it 5 min ago. Personally, I'm just happy we have an active mod now as I didn't like to have to always bother Captainkrtek with the off-topic posts in the Development forum.
This is the wild west yo...if you demand something instead of proposing, expect to get shot.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mandatory
man·da·to·ry
[man-duh-tawr-ee, -tohr-ee] Show IPA
adjective, noun, plural -ries.
–adjective
1.
authoritatively ordered; obligatory; compulsory: It is mandatory that all students take two years of math.
2.
pertaining to, of the nature of, or containing a command.
3.
Law . permitting no option; not to be disregarded or modified: a mandatory clause.
4.
having received a mandate, as a nation.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/proposed
pro·pose
[pruh-pohz] Show IPA
verb, -posed, -pos·ing.
–verb (used with object)
1.
to offer or suggest (a matter, subject, case, etc.) for consideration, acceptance, or action: to propose a new method.
2.
to offer (a toast).
3.
to suggest: He proposed that a messenger be sent.
4.
to present or nominate (a person) for some position, office, membership, etc.
5.
to put before oneself as something to be done; design; intend.
6.
to present to the mind or attention; state.
7.
to propound (a question, riddle, etc.).
Oh I know, but the yelling at other members for supporting me is what gets to me. Yell at me all you want, I'm the mod thats what I'm here for...but yelling at other members? Wow is all I have to say.
Well, you started a flame war. You should fit right in
Heh, fair enough. Like I say, not trying to be a jackass, just trying to bring in some order that you all seems to have been wanting. At least the new naming scheme has been taken pretty damn well in the development section, as has the new Q&A section I got for us.
ashasaur said:
Heh, fair enough. Like I say, not trying to be a jackass, just trying to bring in some order that you all seems to have been wanting. At least the new naming scheme has been taken pretty damn well in the development section, as has the new Q&A section I got for us.
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Well then, Here's to order out of chaos.
Two things should take place if you're effective:
The Fascinate forums become much more engaging and reasonable to navigate
About half my posts get moved or deleted for irrelevence
Now I will have a beer to celebrate.
imnuts said:
The Fascinate section is a very rough crowd of people that expect the world handed to them on a silver platter for nothing, and they all want it 5 min ago. Personally, I'm just happy we have an active mod now as I didn't like to have to always bother Captainkrtek with the off-topic posts in the Development forum.
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Pretty much sums it up.
I think a 5th grade school yard would be a better analogy than the wild west. 'You try and set rules and we will whine and test your authority.'
ok... so what's the purpose of general if not to ask general questions?
Seems like Q&A should be left for specific FAQs and "how to"s to me.
Specifically, I just posted a question to general, should that have been in Q&A based on your definition?
superchunkwii said:
ok... so what's the purpose of general if not to ask general questions?
Seems like Q&A should be left for specific FAQs and "how to"s to me.
Specifically, I just posted a question to general, should that have been in Q&A based on your definition?
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Well Said =D
Development is easy as is Themes and Apps. But the line between General and Q&A is hazy.
I think the things that need to be considered is what makes a question technical and what it a general question. Should ANY questions be in General or should all questions belong in Q&A and General be for news, announcements, opinions, sharing other resources, etc.
Otherwise I think the line between General and Q&A will remain hazy.
ezas said:
Development is easy as is Themes and Apps. But the line between General and Q&A is hazy.
I think the things that need to be considered is what makes a question technical and what it a general question. Should ANY questions be in General or should all questions belong in Q&A and General be for news, announcements, opinions, sharing other resources, etc.
Otherwise I think the line between General and Q&A will remain hazy.
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Definitely true statement you made it there. Mod gotta do something about it. General/Q&A is just messy.
The point of the general forum is just that, general discussion, not questions. EVERY DAY people post Questions about CWM or Froyo in the General section, and things like that just need togo into the Q&A section.
Not to be a douche about it, but you all wanted a Q&A section, and I got it for you. So stop whining.
If I might make an observation, suggestion, and offer a possible option fo resolution:
The basic procedural questions may be quelled if the there was a consolidation, collective update, and removal of outdated how to's in the forum all together. As questions are answered amidst the postings following the OP's, those tweaks, exceptions, or side steps, added would prevent new visitors from then repeating that same mistep, thereby causing that repeat posted question.
To further that, as procedures are refined and updated, older versions should be removed or directly notated as outdated with a current link to the most recent and up to date instructional set. I know that most of my confusion has stemmed from to many years in windows mobile mode, and then coming to android, which was greek to me initially. But it is that much harder to functionally self educate when presented with multitudes of outdated threads whith solutions hidden amidst the 1000 posts, only to discover that by the time I have read then entire thread, a newer version or instruction has been posted, and posted elsewhere.
I hope I am making sense, let me know if not. If there is any assistance I can provide in implementing a solution to the process of clarification within the forum I would he happy, and honored to help in any way I can. Thanks for the work you do here, I know I havent eve a fraction of understanding the multifaceted responsibilities involved with maintaining a forum, so I know you must be a busy person. Take care.
Matthew
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
djblu said:
If there is any assistance I can provide in implementing a solution to the process of clarification within the forum I would he happy, and honored to help in any way I can. Thanks for the work you do here, I know I havent eve a fraction of understanding the multifaceted responsibilities involved with maintaining a forum, so I know you must be a busy person.
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+1 to the entire preceding comment, especially the quoted section. I don't know enough yet to contribute anything dev-grade to the community, but I'd be happy to help out however else I can...
I've read a few threads here lately where someone asks as question and thereafter gets berated by the members who consider themselves developers for posting a question here. I can totally see their side of the argument since this is a development forum and it makes sense to keep the threads like "Help with my app code" separate from "OMGWFTBBQ!! How do I unbrick my XOOM???". Those people often refer to THE RULES saying it's against them to post questions here and to post in the General section.
I actually don't see that in the rules.
But maybe it should be. I am 'guilty' of posting a question or two here, and I even read the rules first to make sure it was the right place to post. I didn't see anything telling me not to, so I posted here, simply because I feel that the General forum section is for basic questions. In that context, I can see why people do post questions here.
So, I'd like to propose a solution that I think would make everyone happy, and would help clean up this section.
A "XOOM Hacking Help and Advanced XOOM Topics" subforum.
This would be a forum where people could ask all the questions and topics that aren't directly related to the actual development and coding process, but are more advance than most of the topics in the General XOOM subforum.
Would anyone else find this useful?
Also, devs, if there was a forum like this, would you be willing to drop in to answer questions? I know everyone here who is not a developer values your knowledge and helpful insight, which is why people ask questions here in the first place.
Thoughts?
Ive felt a bit of negativity too here. One issue is we don't have a q and a section yet. We are so early in the development cycle for the Xoom. We are building kernels and we don't even have SD slot drivers yet! This is the time for folks to kick back, relax, and enjoy their new toy. I freaking love my xoom! I am so excited for the future of this device. All the fun will come in due time. Relax guys!
I agree. I'm enjoying my XOOM a ton, and I actually visit this section more than any other because I love to see what the great minds here are cooking up for the community. But, I can understand their frustration. They're trying to get their bearings on a new device, but are also getting bombarded with questions that bury topics that are actually related to development. I also agree that some of them go overboard and should take a chill pill. It's not good to have someone get turned off from this forum and its benefits because a dev snapped at them for invading their domain and asking for help.
I voted NO. When there are enough Devs to populate this section, then it will be useful, until then you are only fragmenting the people that make up the community. Until then I would think it best that questions To the devs as well as by devs would be at home here. Many devices never even make it past this point.
I wonder how many people that have developed or are actually developing someting for the Xoom right now, have been the ones to try to enforce said non existent rules.
Yes if your willing to manage moving threads around, because for sure thats whats gonna happen
Generally NO though, In other XDA Development sub forums there are plenty of "OMG I bricked my ..." and plenty of useful developer help... since said bricking, etc usually comes along with installing someone bleeding edge hack.
I understand the want for purity but it will take strict enforcement!
No.
Having a Q&A forum would be nice though to separate all the little questions, especially those that get asked over and over and over..
Wow. Split poll data. lol.
So, I guess the 'devs' should just be nice. Fair enough. Maybe the rules should be updated to reflect what exactly is allowed and/or welcome in this forum.
"Doesn't sound like development to me."
Hi guys,
This forum was originally set-up with Windows Mobile in mind. Last few months the forum gets flooded with a lot of questions about Android, which is still in an 'early' development phase. Some questions, about GPS, Wifi, SD-card not working, have been posted numerous times and this makes the forum messy.
Some while ago I have asked admins to have a look at a dedicated Android forum, but I never got a final answer about that. It seems that Android is getting more and more popular, and therefore I think its wise to have a dedicated place for Android. So I think we really need a dedicated Android forum with clear distinction between development and user threads.
I am not sure if I am the only one that thinks this way, if not lets mobilize ourselves and get some attention from the admins to get us a nice Android forum!
Give a reply with your opinion .
I hope you mean just another section inside this forum? However, I do agree 100%, it would be nice to have an android section for us to use and flood questions in there instead.
However, the current setup is designed to allow any OS questions. Not just Windows, so I can see both sides. One, if they leave it - it leaves it open to everyone. But if they don't add sections, it could get a little messy.
I think we have to adopt the same forum format of the HD2 in the near future, I agree 100% with you, and it would be very nice to have this right now...
It's only a thing to talk with the right people here in XDA to Achieve this.
I have also informend the mods some days ago. They are aware of it and think about a solution, one have stated.
I've submitted a request to the Admins for you guys
lets see if they create a new sub section or not
AllGamer said:
I've submitted a request to the Admins for you guys
lets see if they create a new sub section or not
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Allgamer, I would really like to thank you for your help on requesting the Android forum! It worked out very quick, we now have our dedicated Android forum !!!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1087
As far as development goes (which is the core of xda) , the droid turbo and moto maxx are going in completely different directions. Can you please justify keeping them in the same thread? This has been asked several dozen times and I have yet to see a response, personally, from any moderator.
Please for the love of god separate the droids.
I third that.
The turbo desperately needs its own forum.
After so much requests, nothing done, so. I believe will stand this way, because both are quark devices. Have 4 variants
matheus_sc said:
After so much requests, nothing done, so. I believe will stand this way, because both are quark devices. Have 4 variants
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Galaxy phones have different forums based on their variants... Not that the DT is as popular as the Galaxy S series but still, in terms of android development there's very little, if anything, in common between the DT and the Maxx. Keeping both in the same forum creates confusion and doesn't help anyone. Hopefully the mods will not ignore this request again.
Slartibartfast_ said:
Galaxy phones have different forums based on their variants... Not that the DT is as popular as the Galaxy S series but still, in terms of android development there's very little, if anything, in common between the DT and the Maxx. Keeping both in the same forum creates confusion and doesn't help anyone. Hopefully the mods will not ignore this request again.
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Go off-topic with this thread and the moderators will start swarming
Maybe then they'll notice this very common request.
adrynalyne said:
Go off-topic with this thread and the moderators will start swarming
Maybe then they'll notice this very common request.
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I'm thinking about upgrading to an iPhone 6 or a Lumia 540, which one is better?
Edit: all joking aside, I reported this thread to the mods, explaining briefly what we're trying to achieve. Hopefully they'll step in and create a new forum for the Maxx.
It would just be better for everyone to seperate droid turbo and moto maxx / moto turbo sections.
Yes it would be better if they were not combined! I post in this section about a phone that cannot be used on Verizon no matter what yet the name "Verizon" is in the subject.
As you have said, this has been discussed before, so Thread closed as per rule 5
Furthermore, the correct way to request a new device forum is via the
*** New Device Forum Requests ***
Please use that.
Greg
EDIT
Furthermore, it is not the moderators who decide on such matters, it is the site admins.
EDIT 2
After reading through this thread I do not see the need for any MOD bashing. I certainly do not owe anyone anything. I am giving back to this community by giving up my free time. Also, you cannot blame the MODS/Admins for not answering you lot if all you do is post requests in this forum in stead of the correct one l linked above (Which can be found with a very simple google search http://bit.ly/1yiXslb )
So on that note, thread cleaned as well